Fallout from Northeastern Dropping Football Discussion: What Should the CAA do?

[seattlespider]

As you've no doubt heard, Northeastern is dropping football effective immediately. I will leave discussion as it pertains to Northeastern to the other threads. I thought I would start a thread to discuss the impact on the CAA for 2010 and beyond.

Where we now stand:

The CAA was formerly a 12 team division; we are currently scheduled to add two teams (Old Dominion in 2011, and Georgia State in 2012). Georgia State was scheduled to go to the CAA North (oddly enough) when they start play1. It is unlikely that either team will enter the CAA early; Georgia State has not started up their program as of yet. Nothing would prevent ODU from doing so, except they probably would like another year to get ready. So assuming neither team enters early, right now the CAA North is:

New Hampshire
Maine
Rhode Island
Hofstra
UMass

Impact on the CAA teams:

2010 schedules, while still being finalized, are now in flux. CAA South teams play everyone in their division, and three teams from the North. The South teams play the set of three teams home and home, and then switch. 2009 was the last year of the home and home, and teams like Richmond, who didn't play Northeastern, were scheduled to start the home and home with them in 2010 (William and Mary, who did finish their home and home with them, for example, would not be affected...yet). Obviously, the CAA North teams are all short one team on the conference schedule.

Options for the CAA (excluding ODU/GaState early entry):

As I see it, there are a few options for the CAA.

A) Add another team.

I'm not going to get into the politics of the CAA adding another football-only team (not being from a team that is a full-time member, I don't feel qualified to answer whether this is an issue). For the sake of argument, let's say the CAA is okay to add another football-only team. Obviously, you'd ideally want someone who fits the CAA philosophy for football as far as funding goes (facilities, scholarships), and location. As a North team is gone, you'd ideally want another Northern team to slip in. I don't believe any of the teams in the South want to go North (with the possible exception of Towson, and I'm guessing they're more no than yes). So who could we add?

My guess is that AD's from Fordham, Stony Brook, and Albany might be sending/receiving feelers in the next couple of days. They are all programs, from what I've seen, that have been ramping up funding for FCS football. From what I have seen, Fordham may be on the way out of Patriot league, unless the scholarship issue is resolved. They all have the benefit of adding a natural rival for Hofstra as well.

There are obviously other teams that could be considered from the North, but there are three that might make a good fit. If Towson were to move North, then maybe you look at teams like Liberty to come into the South. This all assumes these teams are open to a move.

B) Leave as is:

I don't really see this as an option, but they could elect to have unbalanced leagues for next year, and deal with adding a team later. For the South, it in theory wouldn't be much of a problem, as you just add another team from the North to fill out the schedule. For the North it is a bigger problem. One solution would be to have a home-and-home with one team so each division is playing an equal number of division games. Still, given the expansion coming in 2011, this doesn't seem to be a viable long-term option.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on things going forward. Obviously, we've got playoffs to worry about, but this I hope this provides for some interesting discussion.

1 http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/136838107

[FCS Go!]

ODU one year early (south), Towson or Delaware to the North in 2010.

Add an OOC to North by 2012 along with Ga State (south).

or

ODU, Ga State & Liberty to the South.
Delaware and Towson to the North.

xeyebrowx

[seattlespider]

ODU one year early (south), Towson or Delaware to the North in 2010.

Add an OOC to North by 2012 along with Ga State (south).

or

ODU, Ga State & Liberty to the South.
Delaware and Towson to the North.

xeyebrowx

Delaware would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the North, I think, but they'd be more qualified to answer.

[UNHWildCats]

Delaware would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the North, I think, but they'd be more qualified to answer.
agreed

[FCS Go!]

I should have listed Villanova along with Towson/Delaware as possible northbounders. I'm just looking at it in terms of geography rather than who actually would want to go. I'm not up on the internal dynamics of the CAA enough to have any idea of how realignment would affect traditional rivalries in football or other sports. I imagine BBall considerations would trump any football needs, correct?

[blur2005]

Just move Towson to the North. It's not like the league planned to follow true geographic positioning anyway, considering Georgia State was supposed to be placed in the North division according to the league's plan before Northeastern made this decision.

[seattlespider]

I agree Towson makes the most sense. The fact they don't have a major rivalry in the South and their location would make the most sense.

[Jackman]

The most likely outcome for next season is that the 3 CAA South teams that had a game against Northeastern (Richmond, Delaware and JMU) will each play one of the 3 CAA North teams that wasn't in their pod for 2010 (UMass, Maine and Hofstra). The remaining two teams which are missing a game, UNH and and URI, will probably play each other twice. UMass and UConn played each other twice back when Boston University left.

For 2011, 1 CAA South team will be temporarily moved to the North while ODU is added to the South, and a normal 12 member schedule will be played.

For 2012 and beyond, what would make the most sense is for both Villanova and Delaware to be moved to the North together and Georgia State to be added to the South. During the first couple seasons, UDel and Nova would be kept in the schedule rotation of Richmond, JMU and W&M, while Towson, ODU and GSU play the North's old guard. If after a few years none of the 13 members moves to FBS or another FCS conference or quits, then adding a 14th member would be considered. Probably not a northern school though, otherwise you have to break up Nova and UDel. Maybe Charlotte.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Jackman - UR, UD and JMU playing one from the other pod would mean that the other pod teams would have to drop one OOC opponent next year. Many schedules are close to set - while logical, I doubt the scenario you describe will happen. I see all schools playing an additional OOC opponent instead, likely FBS teams for UR/JMU (pay game for new stadiums' funds) and a FCS or DII team for Delaware (stadium revenue).

[MacThor]

Let ODU play NE's schedule next year.

[DFW HOYA]

ODU is not ready, and frankly doesn't want to be the next Towson, who jumped in too soon and has never recovered. Let ODU go in as scheduled.

If I was Fordham, I'd be all over this.

[colorless raider]

ODU is not ready, and frankly doesn't want to be the next Towson, who jumped in too soon and has never recovered. Let ODU go in as scheduled.

If I was Fordham, I'd be all over this.

The Patriot League better move fast of the scholarship issue or Fordham will jump before the deadling date of December 2010.

[CFBfan]

As you've no doubt heard, Northeastern is dropping football effective immediately. I will leave discussion as it pertains to Northeastern to the other threads. I thought I would start a thread to discuss the impact on the CAA for 2010 and beyond.

Where we now stand:

The CAA was formerly a 12 team division; we are currently scheduled to add two teams (Old Dominion in 2011, and Georgia State in 2012). Georgia State was scheduled to go to the CAA North (oddly enough) when they start play1. It is unlikely that either team will enter the CAA early; Georgia State has not started up their program as of yet. Nothing would prevent ODU from doing so, except they probably would like another year to get ready. So assuming neither team enters early, right now the CAA North is:

New Hampshire
Maine
Rhode Island


Hofstra
UMass

Impact on the CAA teams:

2010 schedules, while still being finalized, are now in flux. CAA South teams play everyone in their division, and three teams from the North. The South teams play the set of three teams home and home, and then switch. 2009 was the last year of the home and home, and teams like Richmond, who didn't play Northeastern, were scheduled to start the home and home with them in 2010 (William and Mary, who did finish their home and home with them, for example, would not be affected...yet). Obviously, the CAA North teams are all short one team on the conference schedule.

Options for the CAA (excluding ODU/GaState early entry):

As I see it, there are a few options for the CAA.

A) Add another team.

I'm not going to get into the politics of the CAA adding another football-only team (not being from a team that is a full-time member, I don't feel qualified to answer whether this is an issue). For the sake of argument, let's say the CAA is okay to add another football-only team. Obviously, you'd ideally want someone who fits the CAA philosophy for football as far as funding goes (facilities, scholarships), and location. As a North team is gone, you'd ideally want another Northern team to slip in. I don't believe any of the teams in the South want to go North (with the possible exception of Towson, and I'm guessing they're more no than yes). So who could we add?

My guess is that AD's from Fordham, Stony Brook, and Albany might be sending/receiving feelers in the next couple of days. They are all programs, from what I've seen, that have been ramping up funding for FCS football. From what I have seen, Fordham may be on the way out of Patriot league, unless the scholarship issue is resolved. They all have the benefit of adding a natural rival for Hofstra as well.

There are obviously other teams that could be considered from the North, but there are three that might make a good fit. If Towson were to move North, then maybe you look at teams like Liberty to come into the South. This all assumes these teams are open to a move.

B) Leave as is:

I don't really see this as an option, but they could elect to have unbalanced leagues for next year, and deal with adding a team later. For the South, it in theory wouldn't be much of a problem, as you just add another team from the North to fill out the schedule. For the North it is a bigger problem. One solution would be to have a home-and-home with one team so each division is playing an equal number of division games. Still, given the expansion coming in 2011, this doesn't seem to be a viable long-term option.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on things going forward. Obviously, we've got playoffs to worry about, but this I hope this provides for some interesting discussion.

1 http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/136838107

I spoke to "some people" recently..... I would look for Fordham to join the CAA

[Eight Legger]

Jackman - UR, UD and JMU playing one from the other pod would mean that the other pod teams would have to drop one OOC opponent next year. Many schedules are close to set - while logical, I doubt the scenario you describe will happen. I see all schools playing an additional OOC opponent instead, likely FBS teams for UR/JMU (pay game for new stadiums' funds) and a FCS or DII team for Delaware (stadium revenue).

Everyone in the North would have been scheduled to play Northeastern anyway; what he's saying is instead of playing those games, three of the North teams would play the three South teams that also were scheduled to play Northeastern. Then the other North teams would just play an extra head to head game. It shouldn't affect any OCC games, unless scheduling had to be moved around.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Patriot League better move fast of the scholarship issue or Fordham will jump before the deadling date of December 2010.

Fordham is gone already. With any luck, Lehigh will follow them out the door.

[CFBfan]

Fordham is gone already. With any luck, Lehigh will follow them out the door.

I beleive that you are correct about Fordham (I'll leave the LU part alone and let the LU & LC fans trash each other on that one).
So, if FU does jump to the CAA what is going to happen in the PL? does the scholarship issue loose some steam? would another school be brought into the league? if so, who? does the scholarship issue become more important?
Just about everyone that posts on here knows more about the PL than I do so I am interested to read your insights.........

[Old Cage]

Why is everyone talking about putting lipstick on the pig rather than discussing possible further fallout?

[NHwildEcat]

Jackman - UR, UD and JMU playing one from the other pod would mean that the other pod teams would have to drop one OOC opponent next year. Many schedules are close to set - while logical, I doubt the scenario you describe will happen. I see all schools playing an additional OOC opponent instead, likely FBS teams for UR/JMU (pay game for new stadiums' funds) and a FCS or DII team for Delaware (stadium revenue).

I would think that it would be an exception for this one year. I don't think it would be a home and home...just a bandaid on the schedule for one year. That wouldn't effect OOC schedules going forward.

[89Hen]

The most likely outcome for next season is that the 3 CAA South teams that had a game against Northeastern (Richmond, Delaware and JMU) will each play one of the 3 CAA North teams that wasn't in their pod for 2010 (UMass, Maine and Hofstra). The remaining two teams which are missing a game, UNH and and URI, will probably play each other twice. UMass and UConn played each other twice back when Boston University left.
Don't forget the other odd arrangement when it was 11 teams... two teams could face each other with it being a conference game for only one of them. That would leave one team with basically two opportunities for "OOC" games.


BTW, a lot happens when I'm not logged on. xeyebrowx

[DFW HOYA]

So, if FU does jump to the CAA what is going to happen in the PL? does the scholarship issue loose some steam? would another school be brought into the league? if so, who? does the scholarship issue become more important?


The scholarship issue doesn't lose steam but it probably evolves into a more gradual approach. Fordham was pushing for 60 right away, but I'm not sure the other college presidents are that motivated to follow so quickly and this would give them safe harbor to take it slower.

The PL has no true expansion candidates, and hasn't for quite a while. The high cost of running a team in the league (6 of 7 schools now above $3.0 million, three over $4.0 million) scares away the NEC and Pioneer folks, while the restrictions on admissions (e.g., few recruits below a 1200 SAT) keeps the lower level CAA teams from considering it...like of like Northeastern.

[andy7171]

Why is everyone talking about putting lipstick on the pig rather than discussing possible further fallout?

Are their other CAA schools looking to drop football?

[LUHawker]

The Patriot League better move fast of the scholarship issue or Fordham will jump before the deadling date of December 2010.

Apparently the PL is "discussing" the scholarship issue this December according to another thread. I suspect that NU's decision trickled down to the PL folks and Fordham and this is the impetus for the accelerated timeline (it was previously said, the PL would make a decision in December of 2010).

Comments within this thread notwithstanding, everything I've read or heard suggests that Fordham will stay in the PL if the PL will keep schollies.

[DFW HOYA]

So, if FU does jump to the CAA what is going to happen in the PL? does the scholarship issue loose some steam? would another school be brought into the league? if so, who? does the scholarship issue become more important?


The scholarship issue doesn't lose steam but it probably evolves into a more gradual approach. Fordham was pushing for 60 right away, but I'm not sure the other college presidents are that motivated to follow so quickly and this would give them safe harbor to take it slower.

The PL has no true expansion candidates, and hasn't for quite a while. The high cost of running a team in the league (6 of 7 schools now above $3.0 million, three over $4.0 million) scares away the NEC and Pioneer folks, while the restrictions on admissions (e.g., few recruits below a 1200 SAT) keeps the lower level CAA teams from considering it...like of like Northeastern.

[CFBfan]

The scholarship issue doesn't lose steam but it probably evolves into a more gradual approach. Fordham was pushing for 60 right away, but I'm not sure the other college presidents are that motivated to follow so quickly and this would give them safe harbor to take it slower.

The PL has no true expansion candidates, and hasn't for quite a while. The high cost of running a team in the league (6 of 7 schools now above $3.0 million, three over $4.0 million) scares away the NEC and Pioneer folks, while the restrictions on admissions (e.g., few recruits below a 1200 SAT) keeps the lower level CAA teams from considering it...like of like Northeastern.

thanks, that makes sense. so, in that scenario what happens to a team(s) that will not go scholarship? seems like GU is in that category? are there any ohters? If GU left the league what would happen to the PL assuming FU also left (for 2 very differnet reasons!)?

[DFW HOYA]

thanks, that makes sense. so, in that scenario what happens to a team(s) that will not go scholarship? seems like GU is in that category? are there any ohters? If GU left the league what would happen to the PL assuming FU also left (for 2 very differnet reasons!)?

The Patriot League's approach would leave it up to each school, so if Colgate and Lehigh wanted 40, Lafayette, HC and Bucknell settled for 30 and Georgetown chose to stay with the Ivy model, that would probably pass. Georgetown's record is not much different against scholarship teams as non-scholarship ones in the Kelly era: two wins in last four years for opponents with scholarships, three against those without.

Georgetown is not shopping for another conference.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I beleive that you are correct about Fordham (I'll leave the LU part alone and let the LU & LC fans trash each other on that one).
So, if FU does jump to the CAA what is going to happen in the PL? does the scholarship issue loose some steam? would another school be brought into the league? if so, who? does the scholarship issue become more important?
Just about everyone that posts on here knows more about the PL than I do so I am interested to read your insights.........

All I can say about the PL is, "it's complicated." The league moves along just fine in other sports. It sponsors 23 sports - that's a lot - and that Army and Navy are PL members in all sports except football and (for whatever reason) American University is a full member (but it does not play football). So the PL isn't going anywhere; it just has to figure out the football thing. Which it will do. Don't expect any additional "football-only" members, however.

[Old Cage]

Are their other CAA schools looking to drop football?

Andy - The only school where I know there have been noises - here and elsewhere - is URI. Their new AD is from UMass, and he has made positive comments about the program. That's not my point.

I'm only coming at it as a UMass fan. We don't have a fanbase with the fervor of the southern schools. When Towson entered, that was a final straw for me as to supporting the CAA, never mind the two new schools. Short of moving to I-A, I believe we would be much better off being part of a regional league (Maine, UNH, Colgate, Holy Cross, URI, Fordham, Army (?), Albany (?) etc. plus every other year against BC and UConn)

Of course, I have no idea how to get there.

[UncleSam]

Now that N'eastern has dropped football, the CAA may want to reconsider their realignment plans for the admission of ODU and Georgia St. ODU was to be a member of the CAA South, while GaSt was to be placed in the North. Now that N'eastern is out how about moving both Villanova and Delaware to the North and placing both new schools in the South. Makes sense in a lot of ways, geographically, competitively and most important it keeps Nova and UD together in the same division.

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Hofstra
URI
Delaware
Villanova

South

JMU
Richmond
W&M
Towson
ODU
Georgia St

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Patriot League's approach would leave it up to each school, so if Colgate and Lehigh wanted 40, Lafayette, HC and Bucknell settled for 30 and Georgetown chose to stay with the Ivy model, that would probably pass. Georgetown's record is not much different against scholarship teams as non-scholarship ones in the Kelly era: two wins in last four years for opponents with scholarships, three against those without.

Georgetown is not shopping for another conference.

I think Fordham is gone no matter what; its administration and alumni just don't seem to like the PL so maybe it's all for the best. The PL wants Georgetown, of course, and would like to have Georgetown for all sports, I'm sure. I'm a believer, but also a realist: I don't think the Hoyas will do very well in the years to come in a scholarship PL.

[CFBfan]

The Patriot League's approach would leave it up to each school, so if Colgate and Lehigh wanted 40, Lafayette, HC and Bucknell settled for 30 and Georgetown chose to stay with the Ivy model, that would probably pass. Georgetown's record is not much different against scholarship teams as non-scholarship ones in the Kelly era: two wins in last four years for opponents with scholarships, three against those without.

Georgetown is not shopping for another conference.

seems like a good scenario for the PL assuming all the programs fund aprox the same number. I would say that the PL is the best league for GU so staying there is good but.....can they become competetive (I think they can....need to start with a new coach though, imo) and that would likely require some level of scholarship funding. thinking out loud.....what about the IL for the Hoyas??

[Old Cage]

Thorr on URI football yesterday:

http://www.projo.com/sports/mikeszostak/uri_football_futility_11-22-09_38GHRMR_v2.31cd7dd.html

[CFBfan]

All I can say about the PL is, "it's complicated." The league moves along just fine in other sports. It sponsors 23 sports - that's a lot - and that Army and Navy are PL members in all sports except football and (for whatever reason) American University is a full member (but it does not play football). So the PL isn't going anywhere; it just has to figure out the football thing. Which it will do. Don't expect any additional "football-only" members, however.

very complicated!
why does the league "do" all the other sports easily and yet football is so difficult?

[andy7171]

Andy - The only school where I know there have been noises - here and elsewhere - is URI. Their new AD is from UMass, and he has made positive comments about the program. That's not my point.

I'm only coming at it as a UMass fan. We don't have a fanbase with the fervor of the southern schools. When Towson entered, that was a final straw for me as to supporting the CAA, never mind the two new schools. Short of moving to I-A, I believe we would be much better off being part of a regional league (Maine, UNH, Colgate, Holy Cross, URI, Fordham, Army (?), Albany (?) etc. plus every other year against BC and UConn)

Of course, I have no idea how to get there.

I agree a break up of the CAA is surely coming. I can very easily see the northern football only school breaking off and joining some of the upper NEC schools and Fordham. I don't see how that benefits UMass though, more like a step down and losing a long time rival in Delaware.

[MacThor]

Why don't we just add Notre Dame for one year?

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Now that N'eastern has dropped football, the CAA may want to reconsider their realignment plans for the admission of ODU and Georgia St. ODU was to be a member of the CAA South, while GaSt was to be placed in the North. Now that N'eastern is out how about moving both Villanova and Delaware to the North and placing both new schools in the South. Makes sense in a lot of ways, geographically, competitively and most important it keeps Nova and UD together in the same division.

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Hofstra
URI
Delaware
Villanova

South

JMU
Richmond
W&M
Towson
ODU
Georgia St

I would rather, and I think Delaware and Villanova would prefer, they do this:

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Hofstra
URI
Towson

South

Delaware
Villanova
JMU
Richmond
W&M
ODU
Georgia St

And if they really want 7 teams in each division - ask Stony Brook to be an associate member (gets them out of the geographically awkward Big South) or have Fordham come along.

[89Hen]

I'm just glad NU decided to do it now instead of next year. UD @ Parsons in 2010... a place that the Hens haven't won since 1999. xchinscratchx

[UncleSam]

I would rather, and I think Delaware and Villanova would prefer they do this:

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Hofstra
URI
Towson

South

Delaware
Villanova
JMU
Richmond
W&M
ODU
Georgia St

And if they really want 7 teams in each division - ask Stony Brook to be an associate member (gets them out of the geographically awkward Big South) or have Fordham come along.

The idea is to create balance between the North and South, keeping both Nova and UD in the South while moving Towson to the North would only aggravate the problem by keeping the South strong (even stronger when ODU gets rolling) while making the North even weaker. It seems to make a lot more sense to move Nova and UD North and balance out the strength between the divisions.

Also the current plans call for GaSt, not Towson to be place in the North.

[wr70beh]

There is always the option of VCU starting a program and will want that spot. I haven't heard much more out of them after their new president took over on whether they want to start a program one way or another.

Even if Northeastern had not dropped football how were we going to squeeze them in? Drop a school that didn't play in the CAA for all sports?

Is there talk of aligning the schools based on whether they play in the CAA in all sports?

[89Hen]

Is there talk of aligning the schools based on whether they play in the CAA in all sports?
Only by me. :)

[GA St. MBB Fan]

The idea is to create balance between the North and South, keeping both Nova and UD in the South while moving Towson to the North would only aggravate the problem by keeping the South strong (even stronger when ODU gets rolling) while making the North even weaker. It seems to make a lot more sense to move Nova and UD North and balance out the strength between the divisions.

Also the current plans call for GaSt, not Towson to be place in the North.

Ok, but would UD and 'Nova rather play in a "balanced" North or a "strong" South? I agree with you - UD and 'Nova should be in the North - but the impression I get is neither one of them want to leave each other and neither one of them wants to play in a weaker division.

Thus, my idea keeps UD and 'Nova where they want to be, and keeps Georgia State out of the North division.

[UncleSam]

Thus, my idea keeps UD and 'Nova where they want to be, and keeps Georgia State out of the North division.

and it would result in having six very good programs in the South (Nova, UD, JMU, W&M, UR, ODU) and only two in the North (UNH, UMass). Move Nova and UD to the North and you have a very balanced league.

[Bogus Megapardus]

very complicated!
why does the league "do" all the other sports easily and yet football is so difficult?

Well, it wouldn't be if Army and Navy played football in the league (like they're supposed to xrolleyesx). Can you imagine what PL football would look like then?

But here's the issue: The PL plays most of its OOC schedule with the Ivy League. Most of the PL-Ivy rivalries long predate either the PL or the Ivy. Just look at where Lafayette College is situated geographically in relation to Penn, Princeton and Columbia. The PL employs an academic index for athletes (Colgate, Georgetown and Holy Cross probably have more football players with 1300 SAT scores than some universities have professors with 1300 SAT scores). The league does not want to distance itself from its traditional Ivy football foes, and the alumni want to keep it that way. Many, many PL alumni have degrees from both a PL and an Ivy school (lots of doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. in this crowd). You are the company you keep, after all. Yet the PL wants to "compete" in football as well and so it chooses to participate in the FCS playoffs (unlike the Ivy).

What to do? The PL could go "insular" in football and play only its Ivy OOC games (with a few other select historical rivalries) and decline the FCS playoffs. But that would be stagnation. It could go full scholarship, but be realistic: Lafayette College is a tiny, private eastern engineering/arts school with 2000 students playing 23 Division I sports. Huh? If you've been there, you know it has truly Division I facilities, but there's just so much the alumni and the BOT can be expected to finance. Yet, as a DI college, you either play up or get out. We know that.

My guess? The PL waves good-bye to Fordham and keeps Georgetown. It adds limited scholarships to convert current grants-in-aid (that were scholarship equivalents anyhow) with the tacit approval of the Ivies, who retain (albeit begrudgingly) their PL slate instead of doing home-and-homes with the PFL.

[CFBfan]

Well, it wouldn't be if Army and Navy played football in the league (like they're supposed to xrolleyesx). Can you imagine what PL football would look like then?

But here's the issue: The PL plays most of its OOC schedule with the Ivy League. Most of the PL-Ivy rivalries long predate either the PL or the Ivy. Just look at where Lafayette College is situated geographically in relation to Penn, Princeton and Columbia. The PL employs an academic index for athletes (Colgate, Georgetown and Holy Cross probably have more football players with 1300 SAT scores than some universities have professors with 1300 SAT scores). The league does not want to distance itself from its traditional Ivy football foes, and the alumni want to keep it that way. Many, many PL alumni have degrees from both a PL and an Ivy school (lots of doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. in this crowd). You are the company you keep, after all. Yet the PL wants to "compete" in football as well and so it chooses to participate in the FCS playoffs (unlike the Ivy).

What to do? The PL could go "insular" in football and play only its Ivy OOC games (with a few other select historical rivalries) and decline the FCS playoffs. But that would be stagnation. It could go full scholarship, but be realistic: Lafayette College is a tiny, private eastern engineering/arts school with 2000 students playing 23 Division I sports. Huh? If you've been there, you know it has truly Division I facilities, but there's just so much the alumni and the BOT can be expected to finance. Yet, as a DI college, you either play up or get out. We know that.

My guess? The PL waves good-bye to Fordham and keeps Georgetown. It adds limited scholarships to convert current grants-in-aid that were scholarship equivalents anyhow with the tacit approval of the Ivies, who retain (albeit begrudgingly) their PL slate instead of doings home-and-homes with the PFL.

OK, i get all that (I think?!) but why do they fund scholarships in from what I can tell, every other sport and yet have this circle pull with football?

[Dane96]

Apparently the PL is "discussing" the scholarship issue this December according to another thread. I suspect that NU's decision trickled down to the PL folks and Fordham and this is the impetus for the accelerated timeline (it was previously said, the PL would make a decision in December of 2010).

Comments within this thread notwithstanding, everything I've read or heard suggests that Fordham will stay in the PL if the PL will keep schollies.

Correct indeed-- Fordham is going NOWHERE. And I have that on a source that sits on their Board.

Of course, all could change over time.

I also suspect this is why, on their own accord, the NEC has offered to ramp up schollys further than the 40 level (an effort to keep Albany and maybe bring back Stony Brook).

[MacThor]

With only 11 teams in a conference, two divisions make no sense. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but I believe 12 is a required minimum for divisions and/or a conference championship game. I know it's a one-year bandaid, but for 2010 perhaps the CAA should drop the divisions and have a schedule a la the Big 10. (Pick 2 "mandatory" rivalry games for each team and then pick two random teams to drop from their schedule in 2010).

Then figure out what to do 2011 and beyond.

[89Hen]

Seems everyone is assuming the CAA would want Fordham. xeyebrowx

[Dane96]

Seems everyone is assuming the CAA would want Fordham. xeyebrowx

xnodx Fordham is very different than the majority of the CAA schools.

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, i get all that (I think?!) but why do they fund scholarships in from what I can tell, every other sport and yet have this circle pull with football?

The PL only very recently began allowing scholarships. The level of scholarship is left to the discretion of each school. Lafayette College, for example, provides athletic scholarships in four sports: men’s and women’s basketball, men’s soccer, and women’s field hockey. This occurred only recently. Other PL schools allocate scholarship money differently. It is up to the institution. Scheduling is not a as much of a problem in other sports; in football, though, there will be hell to pay if we don't have Princeton, Penn, Harvard and Yale on the schedule. A lot of the crap the PL takes on this board and elsewhere from supporters of other northeastern colleges is specious - they'd like our schedule too. And believe me, its nice to settle in on a lovely fall afternoon on campus at historic, 13,500 seat Fisher Field for a lively joust with Yale or Princeton. I am in favor of a model for PL football that allows me and my family to continue to do so.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xnodx Fordham is very different than the majority of the CAA schools.

How so?

[Dane96]

Institution Location Team Name Founded Affiliation Enrollment Year Joined University of Delaware Newark, Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 1743[1] Private/Public 19,067 2001
Drexel University Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Dragons 1891 Private/Non-sectarian 17,000 2001
George Mason University Fairfax, Virginia Patriots 1957 Public 29,728 1985
Georgia State University Atlanta, Georgia Panthers 1913 Public 27,267 2005
Hofstra University Hempstead, New York Pride 1935 Private/Non-sectarian 13,000 2001
James Madison University Harrisonburg, Virginia Dukes 1908 Public 17,918 1985
Northeastern University Boston, Massachusetts Huskies 1898 Private/Non-sectarian 22,942 2005
Old Dominion University Norfolk, Virginia Monarchs 1930 Public 21,625 1991
Towson University Towson, Maryland Tigers 1866 Public 19,758 [2] 2001
University of North Carolina at Wilmington Wilmington, North Carolina Seahawks 1947 Public 12,000 1985
Virginia Commonwealth University Richmond, Virginia Rams 1838 Public 32,284[3] 1995
The College of William & Mary Williamsburg, Virginia Tribe 1693 Public 7,700 1985

Most of them are large PUBLIC schools. As NU fans will tell you, the greatest thing NU contributed to CAA football was, in fact, their team itself. NU was largely brought in for football to make the league work. That said, of course they have very good academics...but the real reason was football related.

The same could be said about Hofstra...plus they brought the NYC market. Fordham and Hofstra are a wash in that dept. because quite frankly....they both dont demand the attention of the "NY MARKET".

Drexel came as part of the package.

[Franks Tanks]

Well, it wouldn't be if Army and Navy played football in the league (like they're supposed to xrolleyesx). Can you imagine what PL football would look like then?

But here's the issue: The PL plays most of its OOC schedule with the Ivy League. Most of the PL-Ivy rivalries long predate either the PL or the Ivy. Just look at where Lafayette College is situated geographically in relation to Penn, Princeton and Columbia. The PL employs an academic index for athletes (Colgate, Georgetown and Holy Cross probably have more football players with 1300 SAT scores than some universities have professors with 1300 SAT scores). The league does not want to distance itself from its traditional Ivy football foes, and the alumni want to keep it that way. Many, many PL alumni have degrees from both a PL and an Ivy school (lots of doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. in this crowd). You are the company you keep, after all. Yet the PL wants to "compete" in football as well and so it chooses to participate in the FCS playoffs (unlike the Ivy).

What to do? The PL could go "insular" in football and play only its Ivy OOC games (with a few other select historical rivalries) and decline the FCS playoffs. But that would be stagnation. It could go full scholarship, but be realistic: Lafayette College is a tiny, private eastern engineering/arts school with 2000 students playing 23 Division I sports. Huh? If you've been there, you know it has truly Division I facilities, but there's just so much the alumni and the BOT can be expected to finance. Yet, as a DI college, you either play up or get out. We know that.

My guess? The PL waves good-bye to Fordham and keeps Georgetown. It adds limited scholarships to convert current grants-in-aid (that were scholarship equivalents anyhow) with the tacit approval of the Ivies, who retain (albeit begrudgingly) their PL slate instead of doing home-and-homes with the PFL.

Well put Bogus. The Patriot League will be tied to the Ivies for a long time. Penn is our 3rd most played rival, but we have played them almost 90 times (more than most schools primary rival)

However we also play in the FCS playoffs so if we are to continue this, we must take steps to be competitive as possible.

[CFBfan]

Correct indeed-- Fordham is going NOWHERE. And I have that on a source that sits on their Board.

Of course, all could change over time.

I also suspect this is why, on their own accord, the NEC has offered to ramp up schollys further than the 40 level (an effort to keep Albany and maybe bring back Stony Brook).

also from speaking to "someone" associated with the program "we are looking at the CAA, they have good schools like FU in W&M, Villanova, JM, etc"
maybe not next year? but that is where they "are looking"

[Franks Tanks]

also from speaking to "someone" associated with the program "we are looking at the CAA, they have good schools like FU in W&M, Villanova, JM, etc"
maybe not next year? but that is where they "are looking"

Would the CAA be interested in another affiliate member like Fordham??

I doubt it. They have two new schools entering the conference as is and Fordham football brings little to the CAA football table at this point.

[tribe_pride]

also from speaking to "someone" associated with the program "we are looking at the CAA, they have good schools like FU in W&M, Villanova, JM, etc"
maybe not next year? but that is where they "are looking"

We are not going anywhere. Every year Patriot League fans bring up the W&M should join the Patriot League. We are happy in the CAA.

[CFBfan]

Would the CAA be interested in another affiliate member like Fordham??

I doubt it. They have two new schools entering the conference as is and Fordham football brings little to the CAA football table at this point.

I agree, just telling what I heard....

[Dane96]

also from speaking to "someone" associated with the program "we are looking at the CAA, they have good schools like FU in W&M, Villanova, JM, etc"
maybe not next year? but that is where they "are looking"

As well documented on this Board in an old argument with Syntax Error...my Aunt (who is one of the finest professors at Fordham and runs a department) sits on the advisory Board for Fordham.

Fordham's alumni and coach may "WANT" CAA inclusion...and they may be looking that way (as is Stony Brook and Albany) but Fordham isnt going anywhere at this time per my conversation with her. The Board has a vote in any conference move.

And no...i am not full of ****.

[JMUNJ08]

With only 11 teams in a conference, two divisions make no sense. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but I believe 12 is a required minimum for divisions and/or a conference championship game. I know it's a one-year bandaid, but for 2010 perhaps the CAA should drop the divisions and have a schedule a la the Big 10. (Pick 2 "mandatory" rivalry games for each team and then pick two random teams to drop from their schedule in 2010).

Then figure out what to do 2011 and beyond.

Thats a pretty good point that hasn't been looked at yet. Best idea that won't happen tho...xsmhx



Seems everyone is assuming the CAA would want Fordham. xeyebrowx

I don't know why we want a middle of the road PL team to join us. They don't make a ton of sense for the league except for THIS year.

[Franks Tanks]

I agree, just telling what I heard....

I understand. I am sure Fordham is interested, but affiliate membership is difficult for conferences to manage and I doubt Fordham will leave the A-10 as they have delusions of granduer in B-Ball.

[Bull Fan]

The only thing, Dane, is that in reality Hofstra doesn't really bring a "market" with them with respect to the area. If you asked any Hofstra fan what their darkest nightmare would be, they'd have to say it is to face the same music that Northeastern just did.... but there's a lot of denial from some of the faithful. We just don't have the same folks in place as when Hofstra made the jump to I-AA: the university president at the time as a Hofstra football alum, there was a deep-pocketed alum who threw cash hand-over-fist at the program (Margiotta Hall), and a coach who was a flat-out diplomat in promoting the program to all the right people, both inside and out.... today, not the case. If I remember right, we had a discussion on the periphery of this months ago. You were there or had some buddies there at the time, right?

Hofstra football is barely followed, because it's a pro market. Hoops... maybe more of a following, but again, it's predominantly a Big East market for the college fans as the alums of those schools are widespread here.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Correct indeed-- Fordham is going NOWHERE. And I have that on a source that sits on their Board.


Not sure what you mean here. Fordham already is out, voluntarily. They are phasing out of the PL over three years. Right now, Fordham no longer is eligible for the league AQ or the league title. Fordham quit the PL; they are gone and won't be coming back. I don't know where you're getting your information.

[CFBfan]

As well documented on this Board in an old argument with Syntax Error...my Aunt (who is one of the finest professors at Fordham and runs a department) sits on the advisory Board for Fordham.

Fordham's alumni and coach may "WANT" CAA inclusion...and they may be looking that way (as is Stony Brook and Albany) but Fordham isnt going anywhere at this time per my conversation with her. The Board has a vote in any conference move.

And no...i am not full of ****.

Dane, appreciate the insight and your "source". didn't think that you were "full of bleep"!! and, i had heard this from someone on the football staff so your post puts that in perspective. thanks.

[Bogus Megapardus]

We are not going anywhere. Every year Patriot League fans bring up the W&M should join the Patriot League. We are happy in the CAA.

No one says that. W&M is an example only of the type of school that fits in the PL. It's just that W&M was at the table when the league was formed and it would have been a charter member had it received a limited scholarship wavier at the time. Today, W&M would be nuts to give up what they now have for road trips to Colgate and Holy Cross.

[Dane96]

The only thing, Dane, is that in reality Hofstra doesn't really bring a "market" with them with respect to the area.

Hofstra football is barely followed, because it's a pro market. Hoops... maybe more of a following, but again, it's predominantly a Big East market for the college fans as the alums of those schools are widespread here.

Oh I agree totally (as just stated in a message to Danefan via e-mail). I dont think Hofstra, Fordham or Stony Brook bring the "media market."

In fact, I think it would be assinine for Hofstra to approve either Stony Brook or Fordham because it would dilute any market share that they did have. It is also the reason had UA gotten the fricken money it should have from the State, many CAA fans and others felt Albany would be the No. 1 Northern-based addition; it brings an untapped 1mm plus person market that has shown it could rally around a team (Albany and Siena basketball...Albany lacrosse).

I think the CAA will wait and see...and I would not be surprised to see VCU seriously consider football (or George Mason) based on ODU's success.

[Dane96]

Not sure what you mean here. Fordham already is out, voluntarily. They are phasing out of the PL over three years. Right now, Fordham no longer is eligible for the league AQ or the league title. Fordham quit the PL; they are gone and won't be coming back. I don't know where you're getting your information.

They are going nowhere from their independent status/PL schedule. I am fully aware of what is going on at Fordham.

[Dane96]

Dane, appreciate the insight and your "source". didn't think that you were "full of bleep"!! and, i had heard this from someone on the football staff so your post puts that in perspective. thanks.

No worries...I am a big fan of Fordham (except that they didnt give me enough law $$$ so I could attend...bastards).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is one huge, elephant-sized hole people are missing here.

Northeastern was the thread that keeps the CAA North together. It was the reason the A-10 pretty much came en masse to the CAA when they took over operations, and it's how the CAA North has stayed together despite the fact it's had only two all-sports members in there.

Moving Villanova up north serves nobody. It breaks up the Delaware/Villanova rivalry unnecessarily and the structural problem of one full member in the CAA North persists. Fordham joining also doesn't matter: it plugs a hole, but the same problem persists.

Suppose Hofstra - who have sometimes felt to have gotten short shrift on the basketball end - gets an A-10 invite in basketball. What happens? What keeps any CAA North team with the CAA? If all those schools seceded tomorrow (and took, say, Towson with them), they'd have an autobid in an expanded playoff field.

Why do I get the feeling that Georgia State getting stuck in the North had something to do with all this, too?

[Bull Fan]

No worries...I am a big fan of Fordham (except that they didnt give me enough law $$$ so I could attend...bastards).


Haw haw... providing funding to train and shape a lawyer. Just what we all need! xlolx

Just kidding dude. Get used to the lawyer jokes xsmiley_wix

[CFBfan]

No worries...I am a big fan of Fordham (except that they didnt give me enough law $$$ so I could attend...bastards).

i'm not so much a FU fan as a PL fan and CAA fan so i am more interested in the overall impact on the leagues and the teams in general. I don't have a lot of info/knowledge into this so I enjoy reading different points of view on it and the logic behind them. no matter how it plays out it will be interesting.

[Bull Fan]

I can see the whole CAA North breaking off one day to join up with SBU and Albany. I think economics will force this.

[Dane96]

And as much as a few Dane fans have been flustered at our pace (moving to the Big South with schollys, stadium, etc.) and radio silence at times, the one thing I can say without a doubt is that our development people and athletic staff have always said, "the landscape will change...has to change because of economics...and it is better for us to just sit and prepare and review."

I think you will see Hofstra, Stony Brook, Maine, UNH, UMASS (who believe me is going nowhere NEAR the FBS world), CCSU, Monmouth, URI, maybe a tough and growing Bryant...etc...forming a new Yankee Conference.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The only thing, Dane, is that in reality Hofstra doesn't really bring a "market" with them with respect to the area. If you asked any Hofstra fan what their darkest nightmare would be, they'd have to say it is to face the same music that Northeastern just did.... but there's a lot of denial from some of the faithful. We just don't have the same folks in place as when Hofstra made the jump to I-AA: the university president at the time as a Hofstra football alum, there was a deep-pocketed alum who threw cash hand-over-fist at the program (Margiotta Hall), and a coach who was a flat-out diplomat in promoting the program to all the right people, both inside and out.... today, not the case. If I remember right, we had a discussion on the periphery of this months ago. You were there or had some buddies there at the time, right?

Hofstra football is barely followed, because it's a pro market. Hoops... maybe more of a following, but again, it's predominantly a Big East market for the college fans as the alums of those schools are widespread here.

Bull Fan is correct. The New York market follows pro sports. No particular collegiate allegiance exists because New Yorkers attended colleges from across the country and they root for their local teams. The closest New York City has to a "home" team is Army (which is a Patriot League member except in football). That is followed by Rutgers (because a lot of people who work in Manhattan live in New Jersey and read the Star-Ledger), then maybe Columbia and Fordham tied for a distant third. No one else is on the radar. Columbia and Fordham: Columbia's stadium is in Manhattan at a subway stop next to a major international teaching hospital. And no one goes there. You can walk from Columbia's field to Fordham. And no one goes there. Yep - Bull Fan is correct.

[aceinthehole]

I agree a break up of the CAA is surely coming. I can very easily see the northern football only school breaking off and joining some of the upper NEC schools and Fordham. I don't see how that benefits UMass though, more like a step down and losing a long time rival in Delaware.

I like this idea the best xnodx

Albany
CCSU
Fordham
UMass
Maine
UNH
URI
Stony Brook

[Dane96]

Agreed...and I see Rutgers REALLY dominating the market because as long as Schiano is there...that school is committed. I wouldnt be surprised to see 10-12,000 more seats added in the next 5 years.

[CFBfan]

Bull Fan is correct. The New York market follows pro sports. No particular collegiate allegiance exists because New Yorkers attended colleges from across the country and they root for their local teams. The closest New York City has to a "home" team is Army (which is a Patriot League member except in football). That is followed by Rutgers (because a lot of people who work in Manhattan live in New Jersey and read the Star-Ledger), then maybe Columbia and Fordham tied for a distant third. No one else is on the radar. Columbia and Fordham: Columbia's stadium is in Manhattan at a subway stop next to a major international teaching hospital. And no one goes there. You can walk from Columbia's field to Fordham. And no one goes there. Yep - Bull Fan is correct.

It seems that Big North Jersey HS games get better attendance than the area colleges (FU, Columbia, etc). Maybe not every weekend? but "the big games" draw between 5,000 and 10,000 for the bigger HS programs.

[Dane96]

I like this idea the best xnodx

Albany
CCSU
Fordham
UMass
Maine
UNH
URI
Stony Brook

I would actually add in Monmouth if they were willing. They would bring the NJ recruiting base and a solid program. The could easily add 5,000 more seats on the cheap to bring capacity to 8500-9,000.

It would also give you a 8 game conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games depending on the year.

[Bull Fan]

I agree. I really see an evolution coming with all these teams in the northeast scattered about in various conferences. I-AA ball just doesn't have the resources to sustain the dollars needed to compete for salaries, travel and other concerns. SBU is in a holding pattern in the Big South, Albany is virtually biding their time in the NEC.

From what I understand, UMass has danced around either moving up or dropping it's program... both extremes I can't imagine, but if you offered them the option of maintaining the program with a more regional theme I bet it would stick. They'd still take their payout games to help fund the program, but could avoid the southern alignment.

UNH, as someone hinted earlier, should be concerned also. Another good team that has a limited following. Don't know their funding situation, but let's be honest with ourselves... we're in the middle of a recession.

URI wants to be competitive, and they know deep down they won't be able to win championships as long as they're aligned with the powers of the CAA South....

.....the writing's on the wall....

[Pard4Life]

Bull Fan is correct. The New York market follows pro sports. No particular collegiate allegiance exists because New Yorkers attended colleges from across the country and they root for their local teams. The closest New York City has to a "home" team is Army (which is a Patriot League member except in football). That is followed by Rutgers (because a lot of people who work in Manhattan live in New Jersey and read the Star-Ledger), then maybe Columbia and Fordham tied for a distant third. No one else is on the radar. Columbia and Fordham: Columbia's stadium is in Manhattan at a subway stop next to a major international teaching hospital. And no one goes there. You can walk from Columbia's field to Fordham. And no one goes there. Yep - Bull Fan is correct.

It's blantantly obvious NY media doesn't care when you have three sentences on Columbia and Fordham each week in NY Times sports. Don't even think Hofstra is mentioned. Yankees/Giants dominate this time of year anyway.

[aceinthehole]

I would actually add in Monmouth if they were willing. They would bring the NJ recruiting base and a solid program. The could easily add 5,000 more seats on the cheap to bring capacity to 8500-9,000.

It would also give you a 8 game conference schedule with 3 or 4 OOC games depending on the year.

xnodx
Yep, you need 9 teams for a nice balanced schedule. Monmouth would be fine, although I'd prefer Hofstra, but with them in the CAA for all-sports I'm not sure how you pull that off.

From CCSU's perspective, I love that FB-affiliation, but we aren't leaving the NEC AQ we just helped lobby for unless we get some reassurances this would be a stable league. Also, personally I'd like to see an America East invite come with that deal. ;)

[UMass922]

The remaining two teams which are missing a game, UNH and and URI, will probably play each other twice. UMass and UConn played each other twice back when Boston University left.

Both games did not count in the A10 standings, though; only the originally-scheduled game did. UMass and UConn simply chose on their own to fill the gap in their schedules by playing an additional game with each other, and it went as an OOC game.

One approach that nobody has suggested is to simply leave it as is--have the teams scheduled to play Northeastern play one less conference game, and leave them to fill out their schedules however they see fit. The OVC does this every single year, with Tennessee State and one other team playing one less conference game than everyone else. That's not necessarily the ideal solution, but for one year, it wouldn't be the end of the world. It would be easier than having to juggle around the league schedule (and certainly preferable to giving UNH two freebies against URI xsmiley_wix).

[Pard4Life]

Fordham is committed to their 2010 schedule, which would leave all PL teams needing an OOC if they left. Plus their willingness to give the PL time to decide shows they are committed to the PL.

Economics will undoubtedly play a role by 2020. Expenses are climbing. Returns and donations will not be as lucrative. In short, higher Ed expanded very aggressivley too fast. The fallout is starting.

With new teams in the north and south, Villanova stands a real chance joining the PL, more so than WM and Richmond.

[Bogus Megapardus]

There is one huge, elephant-sized hole people are missing here.

Northeastern was the thread that keeps the CAA North together. It was the reason the A-10 pretty much came en masse to the CAA when they took over operations, and it's how the CAA North has stayed together despite the fact it's had only two all-sports members in there.

Moving Villanova up north serves nobody. It breaks up the Delaware/Villanova rivalry unnecessarily and the structural problem of one full member in the CAA North persists. Fordham joining also doesn't matter: it plugs a hole, but the same problem persists.

Suppose Hofstra - who have sometimes felt to have gotten short shrift on the basketball end - gets an A-10 invite in basketball. What happens? What keeps any CAA North team with the CAA? If all those schools seceded tomorrow (and took, say, Towson with them), they'd have an autobid in an expanded playoff field.

Why do I get the feeling that Georgia State getting stuck in the North had something to do with all this, too?

LFN knows of what he speaks. The GSU hypothesis makes perfect sense to me.

[WrenFGun]

I like this idea the best xnodx

Albany
CCSU
Fordham
UMass
Maine
UNH
URI
Stony Brook

Agreed. It's time. Frankly, I'd be fine if both Bryant and Monmouth wanted to join. Reduces OOC issues and most trips are bus trips for almost everyone. Even if UMass wouldn't go, I'd consider just going with Monmouth and Bryant at 9 and hoping that Albany, CCSU, Fordham, Maine and SBU could continue to step forward.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It seems that Big North Jersey HS games get better attendance than the area colleges (FU, Columbia, etc). Maybe not every weekend? but "the big games" draw between 5,000 and 10,000 for the bigger HS programs.

If Northeastern had the facilities and attendance of say, Ridgewood High School in New Jersey, it would not be dropping football.

[DFW HOYA]

Which raises another issue: what is Northeastern's all sports future in the CAA? It joined to leverage football within an all-sports environment and that's out the window.

Suddenly those road trips to Atlanta and Wilmington don't look so appealing.

[andy7171]

There is one huge, elephant-sized hole people are missing here.

Northeastern was the thread that keeps the CAA North together. It was the reason the A-10 pretty much came en masse to the CAA when they took over operations, and it's how the CAA North has stayed together despite the fact it's had only two all-sports members in there.

Moving Villanova up north serves nobody. It breaks up the Delaware/Villanova rivalry unnecessarily and the structural problem of one full member in the CAA North persists. Fordham joining also doesn't matter: it plugs a hole, but the same problem persists.

Suppose Hofstra - who have sometimes felt to have gotten short shrift on the basketball end - gets an A-10 invite in basketball. What happens? What keeps any CAA North team with the CAA? If all those schools seceded tomorrow (and took, say, Towson with them), they'd have an autobid in an expanded playoff field.

Why do I get the feeling that Georgia State getting stuck in the North had something to do with all this, too?

Towson isn't leaving the CAA. We are competitive in every other sport but football, which is still only 2 years of having the full 63 rides. We are where we are for basketball and lacrosse for both men and women.

I would imagine if Nova stays Hofstra, Delaware, Towson and Villanova are all geographically linked together not to get Hofstra upset being the lone Northern school left from the old CAA North if such a defection occured.

Personally, I don't see Georgia State staying FCS for long, if at all. ODU , yes, but not GSU.

[Old Cage]

A first take from the guy who covers UMass sports the best:

http://www.gazettenet.com/node/251706

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Towson isn't leaving the CAA. We are competitive in every other sport but football, which is still only 2 years of having the full 63 rides. We are where we are for basketball and lacrosse for both men and women.

I would imagine if Nova stays Hofstra, Delaware, Towson and Villanova are all geographically linked together not to get Hofstra upset being the lone Northern school left from the old CAA North if such a defection occured.

Personally, I don't see Georgia State staying FCS for long, if at all. ODU , yes, but not GSU.

Towson was just used as an example, but it does illustrate the tenuousness of this situation. All it takes is one school.

[89Hen]

With only 11 teams in a conference, two divisions make no sense. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but I believe 12 is a required minimum for divisions and/or a conference championship game. I know it's a one-year bandaid, but for 2010 perhaps the CAA should drop the divisions and have a schedule a la the Big 10. (Pick 2 "mandatory" rivalry games for each team and then pick two random teams to drop from their schedule in 2010).

Then figure out what to do 2011 and beyond.
This isn't the first time the CAA/A10/Yankee had 11 teams. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Would the CAA be interested in another affiliate member like Fordham??

I doubt it. They have two new schools entering the conference as is and Fordham football brings little to the CAA football table at this point.
If anything I'm sure they're hoping one more team leaves to make room for GSU. xnodx

[89Hen]

There is one huge, elephant-sized hole people are missing here.

Northeastern was the thread that keeps the CAA North together. It was the reason the A-10 pretty much came en masse to the CAA when they took over operations, and it's how the CAA North has stayed together despite the fact it's had only two all-sports members in there.
Surely you're joking. The thread is CAA football, not that NU is all-sports. xreadx

[89Hen]

xnodx
Yep, you need 9 teams for a nice balanced schedule.
Not true IMO... especially at the I-AA level where teams love to play I-A's every year. Since 9 is not required to get an auto, it's more habit than anything to think of an 8 game conference schedule as being "balanced" or ideal. xpeacex

[headdressguy]

If anything I'm sure they're hoping one more team leaves to make room for GSU. xnodx

Certainly that would make scheduling easier for 2012, but I don't know that I would make any long-term plans based around GSU. Between their illusions of FBS grandeur and their lack of proximity to the rest of the CAA in all sports, I wouldn't want the future of the CAA Football (if the north schools split off) to hinge on the continued membership of GSU.

[MacThor]

This isn't the first time the CAA/A10/Yankee had 11 teams. xpeacex

Yes, and when they had 11 teams they were not split into divisions.

[carney2]

Fordham is gone already. With any luck, Lehigh will follow them out the door.

Huh? ! ! !

[89Hen]

Yes, and when they had 11 teams they were not split into divisions.
Yup, but it was a mess. UMass vs UConn 2x in 1998. Funny year. UConn wins both games and UMass wins the NC. xeyebrowx

[ElonAlum]

All I can say is....thank god Elon is in the SO-CON!

[MacThor]

Yup, but it was a mess. UMass vs UConn 2x in 1998. Funny year. UConn wins both games and UMass wins the NC. xeyebrowx

That's my point. It doesn't need to be a mess, and nobody has to play twice. Some CAA South teams would just have to accept that they won't play all of the other South teams.

[bluehenbillk]

Sad to say goodbye to N'Eastern, but it wasn't a shock.

I see 3 possible scenarios: (in order)

1 - Move TU to the North, ODU & GSU goto the South

2 - Add a new team to the North, plenty of them have been mentioned in all these threads.

3 - Move UD & 'Nova to the North and keep ODU & GSU in the South. (I'm not personally opposed to this but I'd be surprised if it happened. Neither school are fans of the North & new UD President Harker has talked about UD identifying with more Southern schools which this would be a 180-degree turn)

[aceinthehole]

Not true IMO... especially at the I-AA level where teams love to play I-A's every year. Since 9 is not required to get an auto, it's more habit than anything to think of an 8 game conference schedule as being "balanced" or ideal. xpeacex

9 teams = 8 conference games (4 home / 4 away)

3 non-conference games

IMO - that is a perfect football schedule, but you could have a different opinion. You play EVERYONE in your conference and build strong rivalries. You also allow 3 games to schedule depending on your team ability to contend for an at-large.

[89Hen]

That's my point. It doesn't need to be a mess, and nobody has to play twice. Some CAA South teams would just have to accept that they won't play all of the other South teams.
Maybe I missed your post, but there is no way to have 11 teams play the same number of conference games without doubling up somebody.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's the teams that would need to find new games:

Source (http://ncaapalace.com/component/sports/northeastern/ncaaf/futuresched)

2010
James Madison (H)
Maine (H)
Hofstra (H)
Delaware (A)
UMass (A)
New Hampshire (A)
Rhode Island (A)
Richmond (H) (Week 4)
Connecticut (H)

2011
CCSU (A)
Holy Cross (A) (Week 1)
2012
Colgate (H) (Week 2)

Got to believe that UConn's phone will be ringing off the hook this week. Does UMass have an opening? xeyebrowx

Note a couple of Patriot League teams need to find some more games now, too.

[89Hen]

9 teams = 8 conference games (4 home / 4 away)
I'm not sold that the 4/4 is important. 4/3 one year 3/4 the next doesn't bother me. 4 OOC games for most teams is a good thing.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not sold that the 4/4 is important. 4/3 one year 3/4 the next doesn't bother me. 4 OOC games for most teams is a good thing.

Unless you want to determine a champion... xlolx

/thread

[MacThor]

Maybe I missed your post, but there is no way to have 11 teams play the same number of conference games without doubling up somebody.

The Big 10 does it every year.

[89Hen]

The Big 10 does it every year.
I guess that's why I wasn't a math major. xwhistlex

[UMass922]

Yup, but it was a mess. UMass vs UConn 2x in 1998. Funny year. UConn wins both games and UMass wins the NC. xeyebrowx

Only one of those two games counted in the A10 standings. The other went as an OOC game.

[89Hen]

Unless you want to determine a champion... xlolx
Don't the playoffs do that?

[GannonFan]

Don't the playoffs do that?

You may have to explain "playoffs" to a Lehigh guy lately. xlolx

[aceinthehole]

I'm not sold that the 4/4 is important. 4/3 one year 3/4 the next doesn't bother me. 4 OOC games for most teams is a good thing.

Sure, an uneven conference schedule is a lot easier when you can buy home games. If you don't have the prestige, budget or attendence, playing 1 less home game on your conference schedule is a big disadvantge

But 4 OOC games does give you some flexibility. However, not all teams can take advantage of that. Plus, the more non-conference games you have, the more difficult it is to schedule and the more likely someone backs out and leaves you hanging for a replacement.

[UNHWildCats]

I would rather, and I think Delaware and Villanova would prefer, they do this:

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Hofstra
URI
Towson

South

Delaware
Villanova
JMU
Richmond
W&M
ODU
Georgia St

And if they really want 7 teams in each division - ask Stony Brook to be an associate member (gets them out of the geographically awkward Big South) or have Fordham come along.
agreed this is better. Theres lots of talk that Ga State is only goinbg to be in the CAA for a short time before going FBS so this setup means only once change, they can just drop Ga State from the south and be back to a 6/6 allignment without redoing everything again.

[UNHWildCats]

With only 11 teams in a conference, two divisions make no sense. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but I believe 12 is a required minimum for divisions and/or a conference championship game. I know it's a one-year bandaid, but for 2010 perhaps the CAA should drop the divisions and have a schedule a la the Big 10. (Pick 2 "mandatory" rivalry games for each team and then pick two random teams to drop from their schedule in 2010).

Then figure out what to do 2011 and beyond.
SWAC has two 5 team divisions.

[Waco Kid]

How about this:

Split the CAA.

Send Townson to the North, add a few NEC or Patriot schools and bring back the Yankee conference. Then let the remaining CAA South teams keep the CAA name and add ODU, GSU, GSU, and App.

UD, JMU, UR, W&M, Nova, ODU, ASU, GSU, GSU would make an outstanding confernce. Just imagine having 5 teams with National Titles in one conference (maybe 6 if Nova wins this year) duking it out every year. Plus it would end all of this SoCon/CAA debate we have.

Let the SoCon grab Liberty and Coastal to replace ASU and GSU. Then the Big South can grab whoever they want.

[Go...gate]

Fordham is gone already. With any luck, Lehigh will follow them out the door.

Regret to say that I think this is highly possible.

This may be the "earthquake" that we have all talked about in terms of realignment.

[henfan]

The GSU hypothesis makes perfect sense to me.

That's absurd. You really think NU killed its FB program because of the prospect of having to travel to GA once every three years? Doesn't NU already send its Olympic sport teams to GA, NC & VA every year as part of its CAA membership? I'm not buying the idea that a trip to Atlanta once every 3 years was going to bankrupt NU FB, nor will it have that effect on any CAA FB program.

It appears to be a decision made based entirely on the complete lack of support for FB at NU and a willingness to want to redirect existing athletic resources. I'm sure Husky Alum could confirm.

[Go...gate]

Apparently the PL is "discussing" the scholarship issue this December according to another thread. I suspect that NU's decision trickled down to the PL folks and Fordham and this is the impetus for the accelerated timeline (it was previously said, the PL would make a decision in December of 2010).

Comments within this thread notwithstanding, everything I've read or heard suggests that Fordham will stay in the PL if the PL will keep schollies.

Fordham wants to go to 63. I don't know if the PL had that in mind, but I think they may have to start thinking about it.

[Go...gate]

thanks, that makes sense. so, in that scenario what happens to a team(s) that will not go scholarship? seems like GU is in that category? are there any ohters? If GU left the league what would happen to the PL assuming FU also left (for 2 very differnet reasons!)?

PL football would lose its autobid.

[Go...gate]

They are going nowhere from their independent status/PL schedule. I am fully aware of what is going on at Fordham.

Bogus, Dane is correct. Fordham left the door wide open to come back in if PL goes scholarship in any way. They may elect to do otherwise, but they retain the option to return. I have that on good authority.

[ccd494]

Sure, an uneven conference schedule is a lot easier when you can buy home games. If you don't have the prestige, budget or attendence, playing 1 less home game on your conference schedule is a big disadvantge

But 4 OOC games does give you some flexibility. However, not all teams can take advantage of that. Plus, the more non-conference games you have, the more difficult it is to schedule and the more likely someone backs out and leaves you hanging for a replacement.

Ugh, Maine can't even schedule 3 OOC games, 4 would be an absolute nightmare.

[aceinthehole]

Ugh, Maine can't even schedule 3 OOC games, 4 would be an absolute nightmare.

Exactly!!! I really think CCSU and Maine have to sign a 4-year home-home deal in football. Neither team is getting too many good opponents at home.

CCSU has had ONE non-conference home game vs a Division-I AQ conference team ever!!!! URI visited New Britain in 2005 - that's it!

[GaelsFootball]

There is nothing worse than this. I still think about the day we dropped every day of my life. This is though, unlike the previous few, (Iona LaSalle and St Peters) comes as a shock to me. Was there any indication from within Northeastern or the CAA community of this possibly happening? Best of luck to all Northeastern players and coaches and if there is any Northeastern players reading this please leave the school...The worst decision of your life will be finishing your academic career at Northeastern and it will haunt you for the rest of your life.

[JMUNJ08]

I think we can all agree that this was what everyone was waiting for to happen. The 2 extra teams in the coming years were going to make a mess of the CAA scheduling wise. Now, with NE gone for FB, the apocalypse is upon us. I truly think we may see big changes starting in 2010 or 2011. I thought this was suppose to be in 2012 not 2009:p

No league is safe. This may be the same thing we saw when the ACC took Boston College and Miami out of the Big East and numerous teams lefted conference affiliations for "greener pastures." I just hope no one does something dumb like move to FBS over this....(Please read that last sentence JMU Administration)

[seattlespider]

Listen to CAA commish discuss the fallout. He also discusses the playoffs.

http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/audio_vault/TC_Yeager.WMA?SPSID=48484&SPID=4660&DB_OEM_ID=8500

[kdinva]

xtwocentsxWhat about, for 2010, scrapping the two divisional set-up, have one "division" with the 11 teams (like the Big-10), and play 8 of 10 possible opponents? 2011 will allow the CAA to resume their 12 team/2 division set-up;), while Yeager ponders what to do in 2012xscanx.

[Jackman]

Regarding Fordham, one point not being discussed is that the CAA bringing in Fordham should effectively kill scholarship talk in the Patriot. That alone might be of value to the CAA. Scholarships give Villanova, Richmond and W&M a big advantage in recruiting over the Patriot Leaguers. All 3 are Top 10 teams and in the playoffs.

Also, adding Fordham would keep all the full scholarship A10 teams under the CAA banner. That would help prevent the scenario of a breakaway A10 football conference being formed and ripping Richmond away from the CAA whether Richmond wants to go or not. If the A10 sponsors full scholarship FCS football, Richmond has to play there, there's no choice in the matter. It's either that or drop down to a lower scholarship level, or leave the A10 entirely.

Now, I don't doubt the inside information that Fordham would rather stick with the Patriot Leaguers all other things being equal, but clearly they're not committed to the Patriot. They are only in the Patriot for one sport (football) and they voluntarily put that status in jeopardy and put the league in crisis by giving them the ultimatum to add scholarships. I don't know how anyone connected with Fordham can insist they're not going anywhere. Through their own actions they have made it much more likely that they are moving somewhere else than not. And if they were going to go somewhere else, you'd have to think the schools they want to be associated with would include Villanova and Richmond.

[MacThor]

xtwocentsxWhat about, for 2010, scrapping the two divisional set-up, have one "division" with the 11 teams (like the Big-10), and play 8 of 10 possible opponents? 2011 will allow the CAA to resume their 12 team/2 division set-up;), while Yeager ponders what to do in 2012xscanx.

In other words, exactly what I posted earlier in the thread.

[seattlespider]

Listening to the phone conference, I found it interesting, that A) No dicussion about ODU coming in early (though not a shock) and, B) No discussion about bringing in another team. Of course, none of the reporters asked about B, which is pretty odd.

It looks like they are going to have each CAA South team not play one of the other teams in the division (no Towson/Delaware, for example).

[Jackman]

It should only be one CAA South game that gets cancelled. Most likely W&M vs. Towson or Nova vs. Towson (the third option would be W&M vs. Nova). Those two teams will instead play one of UNH and URI, who otherwise would have to play each other twice.

[soccerguy315]

I don't think W&M would be happy trading a game with Towson for a game with UNH, regarding opponent strength.

[mcveyrl]

Listening to the phone conference, I found it interesting, that A) No dicussion about ODU coming in early (though not a shock) and, B) No discussion about bringing in another team. Of course, none of the reporters asked about B, which is pretty odd.

It looks like they are going to have each CAA South team not play one of the other teams in the division (no Towson/Delaware, for example).


I don't think W&M would be happy trading a game with Towson for a game with UNH, regarding opponent strength.



Yea, can we go ahead and put in our request to keep Towson on our schedule. They are our rival, anyway. :D Actually, depending on how the schedule plays out, we'd have to keep our game with Towson so that UR-WM and Nova-UD stayed, right? I'm horrible with statistics and planning and such.

Soccerguy, I don't think we're trading games, just taking games off the schedule.

Has anybody thought about letting WM, Nova and Towson play their conference games as scheduled (they're the only ones with eight games still scheduled) and not counting one of the games as a conference game? I know that's happened before.

EDIT: Nevermind, that won't work.

[WestCoastAggie]

What about making a call to a MEAC Team?

[JMUNJ08]

Unless they do change around the scheduling of CAA games, JMU will have the toughest time filling in their open slot. Being that it is the last week of the season, most teams FCS have conference games and FBS teams rarely have that time available either.

Otherwise we could play 11 straight and then have our bye....xthumbsdownx

[mcveyrl]

Unless they do change around the scheduling of CAA games, JMU will have the toughest time filling in their open slot. Being that it is the last week of the season, most teams FCS have conference games and FBS teams rarely have that time available either.

Otherwise we could play 11 straight and then have our bye....xthumbsdownx

Was N'Eastern set in stone as our last week? I thought it was still being worked out.

[JMUNJ08]

Was N'Eastern set in stone as our last week? I thought it was still being worked out.

Last I saw it was changed to that last week. Towson was OUT for rivalry week. Not fully confirmed but few CAA games were fully set in stone.

[MacThor]

It's not too hard if you do it NFL "Strength of Schedule" style. (# of NE games replaced in parentheses)

Cancel Villanova v. Towson.
Villanova v UNH (1)
Richmond v. Maine (2)
W&M unaffected.
Delaware v. UMass (2)
JMU v Hofstra (2)
Towson v URI (1)

Done and done.

[89Hen]

Was N'Eastern set in stone as our last week? I thought it was still being worked out.
UD was to be at NU the next to last week.

[wr70beh]

Listening to the phone conference, I found it interesting, that A) No dicussion about ODU coming in early (though not a shock) and, B) No discussion about bringing in another team. Of course, none of the reporters asked about B, which is pretty odd.



Not asking about bringing in another team is kind of odd. The fact that Yeager didn't bring it up makes me wonder if they want to leave that spot open for a couple of scenarios:

A) in case someone leaves to go FBS
B) if Mason/VCU wants to start a program.

[89Hen]

B) if Mason/VCU wants to start a program.
Wayyyy too far off to even consider. If they started today, it would be 4 years before either would be in a position to join. xpeacex

[SFspidur]

Would they really be able to move quickly enough to start now and get a new school on board for 2010? Not out of the question, but it's a tough timetable.

If that timetable can't be met, the situation temporarily solves itself in 2011 as ODU comes onboard (if you get a South team to shift North), giving the CAA until 2012 to figure out a "permanent" solution.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Would they really be able to move quickly enough to start now and get a new school on board for 2010? Not out of the question, but it's a tough timetable.

If that timetable can't be met, the situation temporarily solves itself in 2011 as ODU comes onboard (if you get a South team to shift North), giving the CAA until 2012 to figure out a "permanent" solution.

Unless another school jumps ship.... Just sayin'.

[BDKJMU]

I think we can all agree that this was what everyone was waiting for to happen. The 2 extra teams in the coming years were going to make a mess of the CAA scheduling wise. Now, with NE gone for FB, the apocalypse is upon us. I truly think we may see big changes starting in 2010 or 2011. I thought this was suppose to be in 2012 not 2009:p

No league is safe.This may be the same thing we saw when the ACC took Boston College and Miami out of the Big East and numerous teams lefted conference affiliations for "greener pastures." I just hope no one does something dumb like move to FBS over this....(Please read that last sentence JMU Administration)

No one can move up till the moratorium ends which I believe is 2013.

[JMUNJ08]

No one can move up till the moratorium ends which I believe is 2013.

Just planting the seed....don't want us to get spooked with the possibility of a bunch of changes in the CAA, new stadium and hopefully continued success in FCS.

[Go...gate]

Regarding Fordham, one point not being discussed is that the CAA bringing in Fordham should effectively kill scholarship talk in the Patriot. That alone might be of value to the CAA. Scholarships give Villanova, Richmond and W&M a big advantage in recruiting over the Patriot Leaguers. All 3 are Top 10 teams and in the playoffs.

Also, adding Fordham would keep all the full scholarship A10 teams under the CAA banner. That would help prevent the scenario of a breakaway A10 football conference being formed and ripping Richmond away from the CAA whether Richmond wants to go or not. If the A10 sponsors full scholarship FCS football, Richmond has to play there, there's no choice in the matter. It's either that or drop down to a lower scholarship level, or leave the A10 entirely.

Now, I don't doubt the inside information that Fordham would rather stick with the Patriot Leaguers all other things being equal, but clearly they're not committed to the Patriot. They are only in the Patriot for one sport (football) and they voluntarily put that status in jeopardy and put the league in crisis by giving them the ultimatum to add scholarships. I don't know how anyone connected with Fordham can insist they're not going anywhere. Through their own actions they have made it much more likely that they are moving somewhere else than not. And if they were going to go somewhere else, you'd have to think the schools they want to be associated with would include Villanova and Richmond.

As much as I like Fordham - I have family members who graduated from there in the long ago - and as much as I want them to keep their connection to the Patriot League, I believe you are right on target. And now the PL has to move quickly, something it does not do very well.

[MaxASU'81]

Schedule Davidson and pad your OCS a little more!

[bostonspider]

Also, adding Fordham would keep all the full scholarship A10 teams under the CAA banner. That would help prevent the scenario of a breakaway A10 football conference being formed and ripping Richmond away from the CAA whether Richmond wants to go or not. If the A10 sponsors full scholarship FCS football, Richmond has to play there, there's no choice in the matter. It's either that or drop down to a lower scholarship level, or leave the A10 entirely.

I am not sure I agree that Richmond would be obligated to join an A10 Football league. When there was one, Dayton, Duquesne and Fordham were not a part of it. Fordham at the time was pretty much fully funded with equivalencies. Do you really think the non football playing members of the A10 will want to vote UR out if they choose not to join an A10 football conference? That strikes me as completely unlikely. Dayton is not going to go to scholarship FB, the Dukes will be happy at 30 scholarships or whatever in the NEC. Charlotte is still trying to figure out if they can afford football. So that leaves URI, UMass and Fordham as the only teams that might want full scholarship A10 Football. I just do not see it happening.

[JMUNJ08]

Schedule Davidson and pad your OCS a little more!

What a great ideaxsmiley_wix

But we already have a PFL on the schedule...:p

Got make that xtwocentsx instead. Who wants to pay for nail biter against a top 25 FCS program???

[BDKJMU]

Get ready for a recruiting meat market by the rest of the CAA teams, and some non CAA as well, for Northeastern players who won't have the CAA 2 year inter conference ineligible rule when transferring. I believe they'll be able to play immediately per CAA and NCAA rules.

They'll be abkle to keep their schollies so I imagine many of their rising seniors won't transfer for just one season, but I would bet you'll see several doz NU schollie players transfer. I imagine there are a few who might get IA offers, maybe some ACC and Big East, but most will end up at other I-AA though, because its not like NU is loaded with lots of top I-AA talent.

[93henfan]

I'm just glad NU decided to do it now instead of next year. UD @ Parsons in 2010... a place that the Hens haven't won since 1999. xchinscratchx

Do you realize we already have seven home games in 2010 and now one of the road opponents just quit football? http://www.bluehens.com/sportsinfo/football/sked10.html

If we fill that date with another home game...

Has there been an FCS schedule in recent memory with eight home games? :D

[JMUNJ08]

Do you realize we already have seven home games in 2010 and now one of the road opponents just quit football? http://www.bluehens.com/sportsinfo/football/sked10.html

If we fill that date with another home game...

Has there been an FCS schedule in recent memory with eight home games? :D

Montana?

[93henfan]

Montana?

Nope. The Griz, in the past few years anyway, max at seven in the regular season.

[kdinva]

In other words, exactly what I posted earlier in the thread.
I missed that........my apologies.;)

[paytonlives]

I did not read all the posts, so this might have been touched on already. There are several teams in the BSC that are not doing well and might end up dropping football.

NAU
PSU
ISU
and
even Eastern Washington are hanging on by a thread...

[seattlespider]

I did not read all the posts, so this might have been touched on already. There are several teams in the BSC that are not doing well and might end up dropping football.

NAU
PSU
ISU
and
even Eastern Washington are hanging on by a thread...

Don't know enough about the first one to render an opinion, and PSU doesn't surprise me, but I'd be shocked if EWU drops football. They are the only FCS school in the state, and there are only two other FBS schools there (both of which are awful). Granted, EWU doesn't get much exposure, but...

[MR. CHICKEN]

Do you realize we already have seven home games in 2010 and now one of the road opponents just quit football? http://www.bluehens.com/sportsinfo/football/sked10.html

If we fill that date with another home game...

Has there been an FCS schedule in recent memory with eight home games? :D

TRESSOLINI REPORTS....DELAWARE GOES TA HOFSTRA....IN LIEU..O' PARSONS GRAVEYARD....AWK!

ARTICLE MENTIONS......NOT OFFICIAL YET....BRAWK!!

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091124/SPORTS07/911240329/1028/Northeastern-drops-football-program

[Lehigh Football Nation]

TRESSOLINI REPORTS....DELAWARE GOES TA HOFSTRA....IN LIEU..O' PARSONS GRAVEYARD....AWK!

ARTICLE MENTIONS......NOT OFFICIAL YET....BRAWK!!

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091124/SPORTS07/911240329/1028/Northeastern-drops-football-program

The CAA's way of saying to Hofstra: PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE stay! :D

[henfan]

One of the items the CAA ADs will be considering at today's meeting is whether or not to add another school long-term, as confirmed by John O'Connor.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/sports/college/college_football/article/URFB24_20091123-220804/307534/

Stay tuned.

[93henfan]

TRESSOLINI REPORTS....DELAWARE GOES TA HOFSTRA....IN LIEU..O' PARSONS GRAVEYARD....AWK!

ARTICLE MENTIONS......NOT OFFICIAL YET....BRAWK!!

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091124/SPORTS07/911240329/1028/Northeastern-drops-football-program

Ticket to Hofstra game: $15
Gas for trip to Hofstra game: $30
Seeing the tolls on your EZ Pass bill for DE Rt 1 ($8 round trip), the Delaware Memorial Bridge ($3), the Jersey Turnpike ($11.90 round trip to I-278), the Goethals Bridge ($8), and the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge ($9.17): Priceless

[JMUNJ08]

Ticket to Hofstra game: $15
Gas for trip to Hofstra game: $30
Seeing the tolls on your EZ Pass bill for DE Rt 1 ($8 round trip), the Delaware Memorial Bridge ($3), the Jersey Turnpike ($11.90 round trip to I-278), the Goethals Bridge ($8), and the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge ($9.17): Priceless

No reason there not to go! Gotta love our nickle and dime statexhurrayx

[Native]

Jackman - UR, UD and JMU playing one from the other pod would mean that the other pod teams would have to drop one OOC opponent next year. Many schedules are close to set - while logical, I doubt the scenario you describe will happen. I see all schools playing an additional OOC opponent instead, likely FBS teams for UR/JMU (pay game for new stadiums' funds) and a FCS or DII team for Delaware (stadium revenue).

Maybe Weber could come east again next year. Which team has the attendance and resources to justify such a trip? Which match up would be most logical? Delaware?

[henfan]

Maybe Weber could come east again next year. Which team has the attendance and resources to justify such a trip? Which match up would be most logical? Delaware?

It's been reported in today's News Journal that UD has already agreed to replace NU in 2010 with Hofstra in Hempstead.

[JMUNJ08]

It's been reported in today's News Journal that UD has already agreed to replace NU in 2010 with Hofstra in Hempstead.

That must mean we get Maine or UMass at ours?

[Jackman]

I am not sure I agree that Richmond would be obligated to join an A10 Football league. When there was one, Dayton, Duquesne and Fordham were not a part of it. Fordham at the time was pretty much fully funded with equivalencies. Do you really think the non football playing members of the A10 will want to vote UR out if they choose not to join an A10 football conference? That strikes me as completely unlikely. Dayton is not going to go to scholarship FB, the Dukes will be happy at 30 scholarships or whatever in the NEC. Charlotte is still trying to figure out if they can afford football. So that leaves URI, UMass and Fordham as the only teams that might want full scholarship A10 Football. I just do not see it happening.

Dayton, Duquesne and Fordham weren't part of A10 Football because they weren't (and aren't) full scholarship programs. Same reason Davidson isn't part of the SoCon for football. I'm pretty sure you won't find any exceptions in any sport in Division I except as related to not meeting scholarship requirements.

I don't think it's an issue where the other A10 members have to threaten or vote Richmond out. It has to do with the status of a conference under NCAA regulations. If a conference sponsors a sport at your scholarship level (and subdivision level, in the case of football), you have to play in the conference. If you could just blow the conference off and put your sports in convenient affiliations, what we'd be doing is forming regional conferences to play all of our non-revenue sports against our closest neighbors and then moving our men's basketball programs to the best possible conference affiliation regardless of distance.

[Jackman]

That must mean we get Maine or UMass at ours?

UMass was due to play at Northeastern, so if you (JMU) were going to get a home game against Northeastern, that would indeed be a likely matchup.

[bostonspider]

Dayton, Duquesne and Fordham weren't part of A10 Football because they weren't (and aren't) full scholarship programs. Same reason Davidson isn't part of the SoCon for football. I'm pretty sure you won't find any exceptions in any sport in Division I except as related to not meeting scholarship requirements.

I don't think it's an issue where the other A10 members have to threaten or vote Richmond out. It has to do with the status of a conference under NCAA regulations. If a conference sponsors a sport at your scholarship level (and subdivision level, in the case of football), you have to play in the conference. If you could just blow the conference off and put your sports in convenient affiliations, what we'd be doing is forming regional conferences to play all of our non-revenue sports against our closest neighbors and then moving our men's basketball programs to the best possible conference affiliation regardless of distance.

Notre Dame Football.....

[UAalum72]

Dayton, Duquesne and Fordham weren't part of A10 Football because they weren't (and aren't) full scholarship programs. Same reason Davidson isn't part of the SoCon for football. I'm pretty sure you won't find any exceptions in any sport in Division I except as related to not meeting scholarship requirements.

The reverse is also true - in lacrosse, Fairfield and Loyola carry a full load of scholarships and were not forced to reduce them and join up when their all-sport conference (the MAAC) began sponsoring non-scholarship lacrosse. In this case it's the league that doesn't allow the maximum. The MAAC is now increasing their rides, and when they max I'd expect F & L to be required to rejoin the MAAC lacrosse league.

[bluehenbillk]

It's been reported in today's News Journal that UD has already agreed to replace NU in 2010 with Hofstra in Hempstead.


henfan I must've missed that online, do you have the link?

[henfan]

henfan I must've missed that online, do you have the link?

Here you go, Bill.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009911240329

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ticket to Hofstra game: $15
Gas for trip to Hofstra game: $30
Seeing the tolls on your EZ Pass bill for DE Rt 1 ($8 round trip), the Delaware Memorial Bridge ($3), the Jersey Turnpike ($11.90 round trip to I-278), the Goethals Bridge ($8), and the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge ($9.17): Priceless

Gov. Christie benefits twice: he gets to see his Hens play locally, and he gets 10,000 fen fans to pay extra tolls to balance the budget! xthumbsupx