AGS Poll 11/16/09

[AGSPoll]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25
11/16/2009
(First place votes in parenthesis), Points
1. Southern Illinois (38) 2072
2. Villanova (25) 2056
3. Montana (22) 1999
4. Richmond 1879
5. William & Mary (1) 1836
6. Appalachian St. 1737
7. South Carolina St. 1486
8. McNeese St. 1475
9. New Hampshire 1418
10. Northern Iowa 1334
11. Elon 1300
12. South Dakota St. 1111
13. Stephen F. Austin 1006
14. Holy Cross 965
15. Eastern Illinois 938
16. Liberty 877
17. Jacksonville St. 804
18. Eastern Washington 789
19. Weber St. 649
20. Montana St. 476
21. Prairie View A&M 403
22. Delaware 303
23. Colgate 275
24. Lafayette 231
25. Pennsylvania 162

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Texas St. (34), UC Davis (28), James Madison (23), Florida A&M (13), Southeastern Louisiana (6), Central Connecticut St. (5).

MOST SIGNIFICANT WIN OF THE WEEK: Appalachian St.
MOST SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF THE WEEK: Elon

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---> The next poll is scheduled from: 11/21/2009 11:00:00 PM to 11/22/2009 9:00:00 AM
**********

[kalm]

[
14. Holy Cross 965
15. Eastern Illinois 938
16. Liberty 877
17. Jacksonville St. 804
18. Eastern Washington 789
19. Weber St. 649
20. Montana St. 476

**********
[/B]

Flip flop the bottom three with the top 4 and you have decent poll.

xnonono2x

[WileECoyote06]

I think this poll is good at least in terms of which teams were included. Good to see other voters agreed with some of my newcomers (Penn).

[WrenFGun]

I think this is a pretty good poll, though I'd bump SD State to 10th and UNI to 11th, with Elon falling to 12th. I also have Weber and EWU higher than EIU/Holy Cross. Just think Weber and EWU would be favored in those games. JMU would slaughter Prairie View, IMO.

[kalm]

I think this is a pretty good poll, though I'd bump SD State to 10th and UNI to 11th, with Elon falling to 12th. I also have Weber and EWU higher than EIU/Holy Cross. Just think Weber and EWU would be favored in those games. JMU would slaughter Prairie View, IMO.

Central Washington would be favored against them.xnonono2x

[WileECoyote06]

I think this is a pretty good poll, though I'd bump SD State to 10th and UNI to 11th, with Elon falling to 12th. I also have Weber and EWU higher than EIU/Holy Cross. Just think Weber and EWU would be favored in those games. JMU would slaughter Prairie View, IMO.

That may be true, but you can't hold that against Prairie View. They've done a phenomenal job against their schedule and haven't lost an FCS game. Henry Frazier may soon be a hot name in the coaching circles. He rebuilt Bowie State, and now PVAMU; which was once the worst program in FCS football.xthumbsupx

[Pard4Life]

A little disappointed to see the Pards fall as far, given only two PATs on a wet field kept us from a win in the title game vs the 13 team. This warrants us below 2 league loss Gate, Praire View, and an iffy Delaware team?

[GrizNzonecrazy]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25
11/16/2009
(First place votes in parenthesis), Points
1. Southern Illinois (38) 2072
2. Villanova (25) 2056
3. Montana (22) 1999
[/B]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SCSUBULLDOG1]

Finaly in the top 8 and should get a playoff game.

[RabidRabbit]

Nice to see SDSU didn't lose a ranking after their tight game with Minnesota.

As long as Jacks/Panthers both win out, and both make play-offs, IMHO, it doesn't matter who's ranked over who.

I like the likelihood that two SLC teams make the play-offs. IMHO, that increases the potential that maybe SDSU would play an SLC rather than Montana.

[putter]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dont you know, the Griz have not played anyone....xrolleyesx

[19Duke97]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meh, that just tells me those three teams may be interchangeable in terms of competitiveness. You can make an argument for any of them. In the end if Montana get's a 1 or 2 seed, it's moot.

[putter]

Meh, that just tells me those three teams may be interchangeable in terms of competitiveness. You can make an argument for any of them. In the end if Montana get's a 1 or 2 seed, it's moot.

I agree Duke. If the Griz beat the Cats I say they get the #2 seed

[GrizNzonecrazy]

Meh, that just tells me those three teams may be interchangeable in terms of competitiveness. You can make an argument for any of them. In the end if Montana get's a 1 or 2 seed, it's moot.

Very true.....and for the most part i'm not worried. Everyone that has a say and the two polls that count all have us as a 1 or 2 as long as we win on sat.

[yosef1969]

dont you know, the Griz have not played anyone....xrolleyesx

Haven't you heard that no one outside of the CAA has played anyone, and they are obviously great because they play each other, well some of them do.:D

[WrenFGun]

Haven't you heard that no one outside of the CAA has played anyone, and they are obviously great because they play each other, well some of them do.:D

Really a tired line...

[Pitz]

16. Liberty
...
18. Eastern Washington
19. Weber St.
20. Montana St.


Ooh boy, Sunday is going to be fun.

[Grizzaholic]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bite your tongue. ECB!

[PhoenixMan]

Wow. A 27-10 loss to App St. drops Elon that far? I guess that's the way it should be, we did get embarassed.

[Grizzaholic]

dont you know, the Griz have not played anyone....xrolleyesx

xoutofrepx

[Grizzaholic]

Haven't you heard that no one outside of the CAA has played anyone, and they are obviously great because they play each other, well some of them do.:D

xoutofrepx

[WrenFGun]

Wow. A 27-10 loss to App St. drops Elon that far? I guess that's the way it should be, we did get embarassed.

IMO, it's more that you were inflated to begin with. You have wins this season over Presbyterian, Davidson, Furman, UTC, WCA, Georgia Southern, Wofford and The Citadel. None of those teams are even close to the top 25 at this point in the season. You've lost to the two teams that were any good (Wake, App).

[tribe_pride]

Very true.....and for the most part i'm not worried. Everyone that has a say and the two polls that count all have us as a 1 or 2 as long as we win on sat.

I saw you said this somewhere else before. Have you read somewhere that coaches and TSN are used but not AGS? Not saying it's not true but I just haven't seen it anywhere.

[GrizNzonecrazy]

I saw you said this somewhere else before. Have you read somewhere that coaches and TSN are used but not AGS? Not saying it's not true but I just haven't seen it anywhere.

Yeah i cant find the link but it is on the page at ncaa where they discuss the guidelines for the selection process. It has been posted on here in other threads

[kalm]

Ooh boy, Sunday is going to be fun.

At least Liberty played JMU and West Virginia, but the rest of their schedule and the entire schedules of the three ranked Patriot League teams should have all of them ranked behind the Montana State, Weber State, and EWU.

Here's HC's:

9/05 Georgetown 1-0 (1-0) W 20-7
9/12 Sacred Heart 2-0 (1-0) W 52-21
9/19 Harvard 3-0 (1-0) W 27-20
10/03 @ Northeastern 4-0 (1-0) W 42-21
10/10 @ Brown 4-1 (1-0) L 34-31
10/17 Dartmouth 5-1 (1-0) W 34-14
10/24 Colgate 6-1 (2-0) W 42-28
10/31 @ Fordham 7-1 (3-0) W 41-27
11/07 @ Lehigh 8-1 (4-0) W 24-20
11/14 Lafayette 9-1 (5-0) W 28-26
11/21 @ Bucknell 1:00 PM

The three BSC teams would mow through that schedule.

On the other hand, anyone who thinks that Holy Cross, Lafayette, or Colgate would be better than this year's Sac St. or NAU (middle of the road BSC) with Weber State's schedule needs to have their head examined:

at Wyoming L 29-22 0-1 (0-0)
September 12 at Colorado State L 24-23 0-2 (0-0)
September 19 Idaho State W 44-17 1-2 (1-0)
September 26 at Portland State W 36-29 2-2 (2-0)
October 3 Montana State L 26-21 2-3 (2-1)
October 10 at Eastern Washington W 31-13 3-3 (3-1)
October 17 Sacramento State W 49-10 4-3 (4-1)
October 24 at Northern Colorado W 28-20 5-3 (5-1)
October 31 at Montana L 31-10 5-4 (5-2)
November 14 Northern Arizona W 27-9 6-4 (6-2)
November 21 Cal Poly 2:05 PM ET Tickets

The ECB horse will continue to be flogged until some of you voters wise up and/or the selection criteria for DII's versus non and partial scholarship conferences gets changed.

[crusader11]

Guess I need to have my head examined.

[uofmman1122]

At least Liberty played JMU and West Virginia, but the rest of their schedule and the entire schedules of the three ranked Patriot League teams should have all of them ranked behind the Montana State, Weber State, and EWU.

Here's HC's:

9/05 Georgetown 1-0 (1-0) W 20-7
9/12 Sacred Heart 2-0 (1-0) W 52-21
9/19 Harvard 3-0 (1-0) W 27-20
10/03 @ Northeastern 4-0 (1-0) W 42-21
10/10 @ Brown 4-1 (1-0) L 34-31
10/17 Dartmouth 5-1 (1-0) W 34-14
10/24 Colgate 6-1 (2-0) W 42-28
10/31 @ Fordham 7-1 (3-0) W 41-27
11/07 @ Lehigh 8-1 (4-0) W 24-20
11/14 Lafayette 9-1 (5-0) W 28-26
11/21 @ Bucknell 1:00 PM

The three BSC teams would mow through that schedule.

On the other hand, anyone who thinks that Holy Cross, Lafayette, or Colgate would be better than this year's Sac St. or NAU (middle of the road BSC) with Weber State's schedule needs to have their head examined:

at Wyoming L 29-22 0-1 (0-0)
September 12 at Colorado State L 24-23 0-2 (0-0)
September 19 Idaho State W 44-17 1-2 (1-0)
September 26 at Portland State W 36-29 2-2 (2-0)
October 3 Montana State L 26-21 2-3 (2-1)
October 10 at Eastern Washington W 31-13 3-3 (3-1)
October 17 Sacramento State W 49-10 4-3 (4-1)
October 24 at Northern Colorado W 28-20 5-3 (5-1)
October 31 at Montana L 31-10 5-4 (5-2)
November 14 Northern Arizona W 27-9 6-4 (6-2)
November 21 Cal Poly 2:05 PM ET Tickets

The ECB horse will continue to be flogged until some of you voters wise up and/or the selection criteria for DII's versus non and partial scholarship conferences gets changed.I had it like this in my poll:

11. Eastern Washington
13. Liberty
15. Weber State
16. Montana State
19. Eastern Illinois
20. Holy Cross
21. Jacksonville State

I think Liberty could give the 3 BSC teams a good game, but I have a hard time not seeing MSU, EWU, and WSU as 7-10 point favorites over EIU, Holy Cross, or Jax St.

[OhioHen]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xnonoxxnonoxxnonox

I was one of the first pollsters to vote Montana #1 (week 6) and haven't moved them out of that spot. Big CAA fan (UD first, then the rest of the conference) and my top CAA team is still only 3rd behing Montana and Southern Illinois.

Where's the "homer joke" in that?

[GrizNzonecrazy]

Wow....i will take back the homer joke comment for you only....thx for the support

[UNH Fanboi]

xnonoxxnonoxxnonox

I was one of the first pollsters to vote Montana #1 and haven't moved them down yet. Big CAA fan (UD first, then the rest of the conference) and my top CAA team is still only 3rd behing Montana and Southern Illinois.

Where's the "homer joke" in that?

Some Montana fans have a persecution complex. The only reason two 1-loss teams can reasonably be ranked ahead of Montana is because of east-coast bias, anti-Big Sky bias or homerism. Forget about stuff like SoS, top 10 FCS wins, an FBS win, the fact that both of them are ranked higher in computer rankings, the fact that SIU is also undefeated in FCS and Montana didn't play an FBS, etc.

It HAS to be bias.

[wapiti]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

22 First place votes and sitten 3rd place in the poll and you have the audacity to say no respect for the Griz.

[Grrrrriz]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you are being a little ridiculous. We get plenty of respect in this poll. We have 22 1st place votes, and we are 3rd. We haven't been slighted, and there is a pretty good argument for SIU and Villanova to be ahead of us or vise versa. Don't whine about something that is really a non issue. For the record...SIU is my #1

[Grrrrriz]

22 First place votes and sitten 3rd place in the poll and you have the audacity to say no respect for the Griz.

beat me to it.

[Grrrrriz]

Some Montana fans have a persecution complex. The only reason two 1-loss teams can reasonably be ranked ahead of Montana is because of east-coast bias, anti-Big Sky bias or homerism. Forget about stuff like SoS, top 10 FCS wins, an FBS win, the fact that both of them are ranked higher in computer rankings, the fact that SIU is also undefeated in FCS and Montana didn't play an FBS, etc.

It HAS to be bias.

Most of the good/great teams have fans with a persecution complex. It just seems like Montana/W&M/UNH/Liberty has some fans that are more vocal about it than the rest.

[Ivytalk]

Overall, a solid poll!xthumbsupx

Much as it killed me to do it, I voted for Penn this week.xcoolx

[tribe_pride]

Yeah i cant find the link but it is on the page at ncaa where they discuss the guidelines for the selection process. It has been posted on here in other threads

Thanks. It's here on the bottom of page 11 and top of 12

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_1AA_Football.pdf

But that only is used for determining an automatic at-large spot for a conference champion of an AQ eligible conference that does not receive AQ status. It's not used for anything else.

By the way (not trying to start anything but just listing) the NCAA uses TSN, Coaches, and a modified GPI with only certain computer rankings for the above auto at-large. The computer rankings are:

Massey - Nova, SIU, Tribe, Spiders, Montana
Wolfe - Nova, Tribe, Spiders, Montana, SIU
Ashburne - Nova, Spiders, Tribe, Montana, SIU
Self - Nova, Spiders, Tribe, Montana, SIU
Laz - Nova, Spiders, SIU, Montana, Tribe

Once again, those don't get used for seeding (neither do the Coaches or TSN) but those is worse for Montana than the GPI is. Seeding is determined by selecting the "top 4 teams in the 16-team bracket." It is not any more specific than that.

[RookieWill]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FYI - The new TSN poll has Nova at #2 and Montana at #3

[PhoenixMan]

IMO, it's more that you were inflated to begin with. You have wins this season over Presbyterian, Davidson, Furman, UTC, WCA, Georgia Southern, Wofford and The Citadel. None of those teams are even close to the top 25 at this point in the season. You've lost to the two teams that were any good (Wake, App).

True enough....I'll go back to my corner now.xbawlingx

[UNIFanSince1983]

Honestly how much difference is there really between the first 3 teams? I mean SIU and Villanova both have two top 10 FCS victories (SIUs were both on the road). Villanova has an FBS victory, but is the only one with an FCS loss. Montana has played solid teams in conference and won all of their games. SIUs only loss is to FBS Marshall.

They all seem to have a case to be #1. I don't know why you would complain about being ranked at #3 right now, and especially in FCS football. If this was FBS and it was for the National Championship you may have a beef, but if you really are the best team you will have a chance to show it on the field in the playoffs.

[UNH Fanboi]

Honestly how much difference is there really between the first 3 teams? I mean SIU and Villanova both have two top 10 FCS victories (SIUs were both on the road). Villanova has an FBS victory, but is the only one with an FCS loss. Montana has played solid teams in conference and won all of their games. SIUs only loss is to FBS Marshall.

They all seem to have a case to be #1. I don't know why you would complain about being ranked at #3 right now, and especially in FCS football. If this was FBS and it was for the National Championship you may have a beef, but if you really are the best team you will have a chance to show it on the field in the playoffs.

Maybe they're just worried that the committee will give them the #3 seed as well and they will have to, GASP, play somewhere other than Wash Griz. in the semis.


Insert retort about them beating #1 JMU last year on the road here.

[TheValleyRaider]

A little disappointed to see the Pards fall as far, given only two PATs on a wet field kept us from a win in the title game vs the 13 team. This warrants us below 2 league loss Gate, Praire View, and an iffy Delaware team?

Yeah, it's not like that happened in September, it was last week.... xchinscratchx

[fltheadgriz]

My only complaint is that both Villanova and Montana played one win teams this past week.
Villanova won by 42 and the Griz won by 28. The Griz played most of their 2nd and 3rd stringers in the second half, but not at all positions.
I do not know if Villanova did this.
This hints at FBS that if you run up the score more than another team did then you can leapfrog them.
That is my complaint is that it smells like FBS stuff.

[soccerguy315]

My only complaint is that both Villanova and Montana played one win teams this past week.
Villanova won by 42 and the Griz won by 28. The Griz played most of their 2nd and 3rd stringers in the second half, but not at all positions.
I do not know if Villanova did this.
This hints at FBS that if you run up the score more than another team did then you can leapfrog them.
That is my complaint is that it smells like FBS stuff.

or, it could be that posters have thought/reflected on their polls for a week, and decided "if I had to do it again, I would've ranked Montana and Nova differently... so I will change that next week."

I agree with you that this weekends games should not have changed the order at the top, so I would feel better about the change if it was based on the reasoning I suggested, instead of the reasoning you suggested.

[4th and What?]

Insert retort about them beating #1 JMU last year on the road here.

Was that in southern Virginia? My frozen beer begs to differ.... xrolleyesx

[yosef1969]

Really a tired line...

Tired of the truth, and you're wrong, plenty of CAA fans have harped on the BSC, SoCon, MSV OOC scheduled being weak. When in fact the CAA OOC is nothing special either, the difference is the CAA has deemed themselves "the toughest" league so therefore by playing each other they have the toughest schedule. CAA and SoCon haven't played this season so comments that anybody would beat anybody by how many ever scores is a total guess.

FWIW, I think the CAA is probably the best conference, said that all along but the cut and dry statements that there's no doubt, like it's a proven fact based of GPI, Sagrarin or any other ranking or rating is BS, as in BCS type BS.

[jstclmet]

My only complaint is that both Villanova and Montana played one win teams this past week.
Villanova won by 42 and the Griz won by 28. The Griz played most of their 2nd and 3rd stringers in the second half, but not at all positions.
I do not know if Villanova did this.
This hints at FBS that if you run up the score more than another team did then you can leapfrog them.
That is my complaint is that it smells like FBS stuff.

Nova was up 21 - 0 at the end of the 1st, and 28 - 0 in the first couple of minutes in the 2nd. Second teamers enter the game with 9:09 left in the 2nd qtr.

What do you expect 2nd/3rd teamers to do when they get into the game??? Not play??? Not try to score????

[Pard4Life]

Guess I need to have my head examined.

Maybe so, but Kalm needs to have his bottom examined... talking does not usually occur from that area. I'd put Eachus and Randolph and company up against 95% of FCS any week; Pards as well.

[Pard4Life]

Yeah, it's not like that happened in September, it was last week.... xchinscratchx

Regardless, it was a two point title game, both teams even, and we played better than Gate vs HC. Plus, Gate didn't exactly beat anybody last week. I know the polls are a mix of who looses and how you perform; the voters just have to judge objectively. In this case, Pards are better than Gate.

[yosef1969]

I saw you said this somewhere else before. Have you read somewhere that coaches and TSN are used but not AGS? Not saying it's not true but I just haven't seen it anywhere.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/1_football_handbook.pdf

It's on page 11 6c addressing qualifications for a team from a conference that has an unused AQ but also suggests the polls and GPI are referenced in selection in general:
"Team finishes the season ranked 16 or higher in an average of the last regularseason
media, coaches and/or computer polls (which will be determined by the
committee on an annual basis). For 2008, the media poll will be the Sports
Network Poll, the coaches poll will be the FCS Coaches poll and the computer
poll will be a variation of the Gridiron Power Index..."

[ASUG8]

IMO, there are far too many pairs of underwear getting bunched up right now. Those on the bubble (I'll say 12-18) have legitimate gripes, but the top 10 or so will get it all worked out in the playoffs. I don't really care if ASU is at #5 or #8 as long as we get the shot in the playoffs to either show that we're as good as we think or get exposed. In two weeks we'll begin the countdown. xthumbsupx

[uofmman1122]

Maybe they're just worried that the committee will give them the #3 seed as well and they will have to, GASP, play somewhere other than Wash Griz. in the semis.


Insert retort about them beating #1 JMU last year on the road here.We have the best homefield advantage in all of FCS, so don't act like we're complaining about nothing. There is not a team anywhere in the FCS that wants to have to come to Washington Griz.

If UNH had the same deal, you'd all be up in arms about going undefeated and only receiving a 3 seed. I'm perfectly confident that our team can win on the road, but I also feel that, if we don't have to, why should we?

So, again, we're the toughest team in FCS to beat at home, and we're undefeated, so why wouldn't we be fighting for home field through the playoffs when we feel we deserve it?

[yosef1969]

Maybe they're just worried that the committee will give them the #3 seed as well and they will have to, GASP, play somewhere other than Wash Griz. in the semis.


Insert retort about them beating #1 JMU last year on the road here.

Didn't the Griz beat JMU last year on the road in the semi's....xrolleyesx

[ElonPride]

IMO, it's more that you were inflated to begin with. You have wins this season over Presbyterian, Davidson, Furman, UTC, WCA, Georgia Southern, Wofford and The Citadel. None of those teams are even close to the top 25 at this point in the season. You've lost to the two teams that were any good (Wake, App).

So why is everyone bashing Elon's schedule while not looking at the 6th and 9th ranked teams?

Elon schedule strength - 179
App schedule strength - 161

The only basic difference is McNeese, which they lost.

Let's also look at yours:
UNH schedule strength - 172

....hmmmmm.....you're bashing Elon's OOc sked while playing Dartmouth and St. Francis? And boy, you blew up St. Francis with a whopping 24 points and a staggaring 10 point win.

And don't even try to argue Ball St. either. They are rated below many, MANY FCS teams. Wake is at least in the top 60!

[SumItUp]

Most of the good/great teams have fans with a persecution complex. It just seems like Montana/W&M/UNH/Liberty has some fans that are more vocal about it than the rest.

Every fan will stand up for their team. Montana/W&M/UNH teams will have an opportunity to show what they have on the field in two weeks. Liberty just wants the opportunity to do the same. We may get it or we may have to wait another year.

[UNH Fanboi]

We have the best homefield advantage in all of FCS, so don't act like we're complaining about nothing. There is not a team anywhere in the FCS that wants to have to come to Washington Griz.

If UNH had the same deal, you'd all be up in arms about going undefeated and only receiving a 3 seed. I'm perfectly confident that our team can win on the road, but I also feel that, if we don't have to, why should we?

So, again, we're the toughest team in FCS to beat at home, and we're undefeated, so why wouldn't we be fighting for home field through the playoffs when we feel we deserve it?

I agree that you have the best home field advantage in FCS. I also think Montana has been a little spoiled with the number of home playoff games they've gotten over the years, so I don't have too much sympathy for them possibly having to go on the road in the semis, particularly when there's a good argument for the two teams ranked ahead of them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Guess I need to have my head examined.

You must spread some reputation around before....

[Cocky]

I had it like this in my poll:

11. Eastern Washington
13. Liberty
15. Weber State
16. Montana State
19. Eastern Illinois
20. Holy Cross
21. Jacksonville State

I think Liberty could give the 3 BSC teams a good game, but I have a hard time not seeing MSU, EWU, and WSU as 7-10 point favorites over EIU, Holy Cross, or Jax St.

There's not a team in FCS that Vegas would give JSU 7-10 points.

[UNCBears2010]

My only complaint is that both Villanova and Montana played one win teams this past week.
Villanova won by 42 and the Griz won by 28. The Griz played most of their 2nd and 3rd stringers in the second half, but not at all positions.
I do not know if Villanova did this.
This hints at FBS that if you run up the score more than another team did then you can leapfrog them.
That is my complaint is that it smells like FBS stuff.

Hey, UNC has 3 wins, dammit!

[WrenFGun]

So why is everyone bashing Elon's schedule while not looking at the 6th and 9th ranked teams?

Elon schedule strength - 179
App schedule strength - 161

The only basic difference is McNeese, which they lost.

Let's also look at yours:
UNH schedule strength - 172

....hmmmmm.....you're bashing Elon's OOc sked while playing Dartmouth and St. Francis? And boy, you blew up St. Francis with a whopping 24 points and a staggaring 10 point win.

And don't even try to argue Ball St. either. They are rated below many, MANY FCS teams. Wake is at least in the top 60!

Fortunately I'm talking about QUALITY WINS and not SCHEDULE STRENGTH, then. First of all, if you're interested in a breakdown of where Ball State would stand in the FCS world, look at the post by UNH Alum in CT in the thread about the playoffs. I'd link but I'm lazy. By his analysis, there isn't a team that Elon has beaten as good as Ball State. Villanova is world's ahead of anything Elon has beaten (or played, for that matter).

Now, yes, UNH and Elon have both had some cupcakes. Fortunately UNH has two wins that they can lay claim too. That's the difference between the two teams. And again, site SOS all you want, what win does Elon have to say, "Wow, hey, that's a nice win?"

[19Duke97]

There's not a team in FCS that Vegas would give JSU 7-10 points.

You'd prob get at least 10 if you played VU in Philly...
43 Villanova AA = 76.60 9 1 57.63( 132) 0 0 | 0 0 | 78.90 28 | 74.07 55
..
117 Jacksonville State AA = 60.07 7 3 50.85( 171) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.82 148 | 66.01 85

[Cocky]

You'd prob get at least 10 if you played VU in Philly...
43 Villanova AA = 76.60 9 1 57.63( 132) 0 0 | 0 0 | 78.90 28 | 74.07 55
..
117 Jacksonville State AA = 60.07 7 3 50.85( 171) 0 1 | 0 1 | 53.82 148 | 66.01 85

I bet it would be more in the 5.5 to 6 range but I would take either one, but I won't get the chance this year. Maybe next year will pass enough classes to be eligble for the playoffs.

[fltheadgriz]

My bad...Villanova plays a team with 1 win and beats them by 42
The Griz play a team with 3 wins and beats them by 28.
But yet there is a leapfrogging going on?
Still smells like FBS (1A) garbage about style points for rankings.
By the way my panties aren't in a bunch over this.
Just smells like FBS crap that is happening here.
I guess the Griz in order to keep their second place ranking should have won by 43.

[uofmman1122]

There's not a team in FCS that Vegas would give JSU 7-10 points.Maybe not, but I can think of several that I'd give 7-10 over JSU.

[yosef1969]

Villanova is world's ahead of anything Elon has beaten (or played, for that matter).

Now, yes, UNH and Elon have both had some cupcakes. Fortunately UNH has two wins that they can lay claim too. That's the difference between the two teams. And again, site SOS all you want, what win does Elon have to say, "Wow, hey, that's a nice win?"

Again, this is based on what? A win against Temple? It may be true but that's just your opinion at this point.

[ElonPride]

By his analysis, there isn't a team that Elon has beaten as good as Ball State.

Really? Half of the SoCon teams are rated HIGHER than Ball St.....App St, Elon, Furman, Samford and UTC. Elon has beaten two of those teams. Try again.

[soccerguy315]

Again, this is based on what? A win against Temple? It may be true but that's just your opinion at this point.

UNH beat Villanova

not taking sides, just putting that out there as probably what the poster was going for.

[JMUNJ08]

xpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornx

Elon has no quality wins (unless this is 5 years ago) in the eyes of the committee and will be on the road.
UNH is going for a plane ride in 2 weeks with an FBS win and a win against the GPI #1.

Both are IN with wins. Settle it on the field ladies as you really have nothing to compare! Last longer than the other in the playoffs then start posting.

*Putting my riot gear on*xreadx

[yosef1969]

UNH beat Villanova

not taking sides, just putting that out there as probably what the poster was going for.

Yeah, I know what he's going for but he continually states it as a fact, that UNH and the entire CAA for that matter is definitely better than Elon and ASU.

All that may be true, but the issue is that 'Nova hasn't played ASU or Elon nor has UNH, so his fact is in reality a guess. Glad we have the playoffs to sort this out.

[Mountaineer#96]

dont you know, the Griz have not played anyone....xrolleyesx

We go through this every year...............don't we.

[Native]

I bet it would be more in the 5.5 to 6 range but I would take either one, but I won't get the chance this year. Maybe next year will pass enough classes to be eligble for the playoffs.

Do the math. The odds would favor both Villanova and Northern Iowa by more than a TD, and both Richmond and W&M buy more than a FG.

That's pretty good, though.

[iceman4221]

Nice Poll, the Bulldogs will be bidding to host a 1st round playoff game... xnodx

[Cocky]

Do the math. The odds would favor both Villanova and Northern Iowa by more than a TD, and both Richmond and W&M buy more than a FG.

That's pretty good, though.

Vegas odd are not set totally on math.

[Cocky]

Maybe not, but I can think of several that I'd give 7-10 over JSU.

Too bad neither of us can be proven correct but I would have happy to take the bet.

[Dukie95]

I hate to be 'that guy', because none of this matters....but here goes.

What does it take for JMU to get some love now?

A couple weeks ago, I was questioning how JMU could be left out after having beaten two teams in the top 25. Cooler heads explained that, at a certain point, JMU needs to win some games and people don't like voting teams with losing records. That answer was satisfactory two weeks ago.

So now, they've beaten Maine and Umass and are now at .500.

Yet, things aren't really any better.

I can accept that JMU's not ranked, but how can they not be ahead of Delaware now? JMU and UD's conference schedules are about identical. JMU's OOC is stronger, JMU has the H2H, and JMU actually has a winning record in D-I play. Delaware has no wins against the top 25 to JMU's two.

I get that there is still a week left in the season. By this time next week, JMU and UD will have played an identical conference schedule. If JMU wins and UD loses (not an unlikely scenario), would that finally put JMU over UD and back into the polls? Or are people not going to pay that close attention?

Looking for those same cooler heads to explain this one.

[UNHFootballAlum]

Haven't you heard that no one outside of the CAA has played anyone, and they are obviously great because they play each other, well some of them do.:D

I guess others on this site think that since they were voted 3rd in hte latest poll. I think that Montana will get a top 2 seed if they win this weekend

[GannonFan]

I hate to be 'that guy', because none of this matters....but here goes.

What does it take for JMU to get some love now?

A couple weeks ago, I was questioning how JMU could be left out after having beaten two teams in the top 25. Cooler heads explained that, at a certain point, JMU needs to win some games and people don't like voting teams with losing records. That answer was satisfactory two weeks ago.

So now, they've beaten Maine and Umass and are now at .500.

Yet, things aren't really any better.

I can accept that JMU's not ranked, but how can they not be ahead of Delaware now? JMU and UD's conference schedules are about identical. JMU's OOC is stronger, JMU has the H2H, and JMU actually has a winning record in D-I play. Delaware has no wins against the top 25 to JMU's two.

I get that there is still a week left in the season. By this time next week, JMU and UD will have played an identical conference schedule. If JMU wins and UD loses (not an unlikely scenario), would that finally put JMU over UD and back into the polls? Or are people not going to pay that close attention?

Looking for those same cooler heads to explain this one.

Your bad loss is to Hofstra - our bad loss is to you! xlolx

And come on, let it go, UD's got a better record right now, and likely next week we'll be tied. Does it really matter that much who's tied for 4th in the CAA South?? xlolxxsmhx

[Dukie95]

Your bad loss is to Hofstra - our bad loss is to you! xlolx

And come on, let it go, UD's got a better record right now, and likely next week we'll be tied. Does it really matter that much who's tied for 4th in the CAA South?? xlolxxsmhx

So you're ok with taking two tied teams, and ranking the one that lost to the other ahead?

And you say the computer polls are crap.

[ElonPride]

xpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornx

Elon has no quality wins (unless this is 5 years ago) in the eyes of the committee and will be on the road.


Oh ok, so even though Elon has wins over teams more highly rated than Ball St, there's no quality wins.....even though UNH gets to claim Ball St as a quality win. Great logic! phh....

[kalm]

Maybe so, but Kalm needs to have his bottom examined... talking does not usually occur from that area. I'd put Eachus and Randolph and company up against 95% of FCS any week; Pards as well.


You guys could be right. The pl elite might be able to finish 7-4 in the bsc, but we won't know because you fund half the scholarships of Idaho state and play bucknell, st. xcoffeexfrancis, and Georgetown.

[WrenFGun]

Oh ok, so even though Elon has wins over teams more highly rated than Ball St, there's no quality wins.....even though UNH gets to claim Ball St as a quality win. Great logic! phh....

...Beat that Drum...

This is a post from UNH_Alum_In_CT here: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1466590#post1466590


So, how deep into FCS do you go before you stop calling the teams "good"? Top Ten? Top 15? Top 20? Wouldn't you call a win over a top 20 FCS team "a good win"? Or do you think that the top 50 FCS teams would beat Ball State? I saw them in person and don't believe that.

At some point, the added depth, the home filed advantage and the FBS athletes offset the cohesion, effort and emotion that a FCS team can bring to the table. That's why I say it's a good win because it's as good as beating a top 11-20 type team in FCS.

Looking at Ball State's results, I don't see a team that a high percentage of FCS teams would beat.

Villanova 27 Temple 24 (Temple is 8-2)
Temple 24 Ball State 19 (@Temple)

Ohio 28 Cal Poly 10 (Ohio U is 7-3)
Ohio 20 @Ball State 17

Northern Illinois 41 Western Illinois 7 (NIU is 7-3)
NIU 26 Ball State 20

Western Michigan 24 Hofstra 10 (WMU is 5-6)
WMU plays Ball State on 11/24

Ball State MAC games:
one loss by more than a TD -- Bowling Green by 14
one loss by a TD -- Toledo
one loss by six -- @Northern Illinois
one loss by five -- @Temple
one loss by three -- Ohio
one win by two -- @Eastern Michigan

Sorry, I still disagree with you, a FBS win is a quality win.

Now, I'm not saying that Ball State would be the best team in the FCS, but I would be fairly confident they'd be a threat to beat every team that Elon has beat. And even if you ignore this excellent analysis, how are you also ignoring a win over Villanova, which numerous people have pointed out to you.

When you run out of facts to back up your point, is this the strategy?

[UNH Fanboi]

Wren, I'm not sure how this Elon v. UNH argument started, but I don't see the point of it. It's not like either team is in competition for a seed or a bubble spot. If they do actually meet in the playoffs, then you should both be happy cause that would most likely mean both are in the semis or finals.

[gophoenix]

...Beat that Drum...

This is a post from UNH_Alum_In_CT here: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1466590#post1466590



Now, I'm not saying that Ball State would be the best team in the FCS, but I would be fairly confident they'd be a threat to beat every team that Elon has beat. And even if you ignore this excellent analysis, how are you also ignoring a win over Villanova, which numerous people have pointed out to you.

When you run out of facts to back up your point, is this the strategy?

If Ball State is so strong, or so not bad, then how in the world does every computer poll have them so low, even considering the height UNH has over them in those same rankings?

[19Duke97]

I hate to be 'that guy', because none of this matters....but here goes.

What does it take for JMU to get some love now?

A couple weeks ago, I was questioning how JMU could be left out after having beaten two teams in the top 25. Cooler heads explained that, at a certain point, JMU needs to win some games and people don't like voting teams with losing records. That answer was satisfactory two weeks ago.

So now, they've beaten Maine and Umass and are now at .500.

Yet, things aren't really any better.

I can accept that JMU's not ranked, but how can they not be ahead of Delaware now? JMU and UD's conference schedules are about identical. JMU's OOC is stronger, JMU has the H2H, and JMU actually has a winning record in D-I play. Delaware has no wins against the top 25 to JMU's two.

I get that there is still a week left in the season. By this time next week, JMU and UD will have played an identical conference schedule. If JMU wins and UD loses (not an unlikely scenario), would that finally put JMU over UD and back into the polls? Or are people not going to pay that close attention?

Looking for those same cooler heads to explain this one.

I put JMU ahead of Delaware, not sure how it would be otherwise, unless people really value 6-4 > 5-5 more than head to head? but look at some of the other teams ahead of both of these teams and it makes me chuckle - PV A&M, Butler (in at least on poll), Liberty (think we beat them at their place too),UMASS (yes the team we just beat at their place), Texas St, CCSU, Dayton, Alabama A&M it goes on and on. Apparently record means a lot more than a good schedule. it's complete BS, and anyone who won't admit it is lying to themselves..

[UNIFanSince1983]

There's not a team in FCS that Vegas would give JSU 7-10 points.

Don't get me wrong here I would not like to play Jax St, but I bet Vegas would give EIU about 8 over JSU...

xwhistlex :)

[Dukie95]

I put JMU ahead of Delaware, not sure how it would be otherwise, unless people really value 6-4 > 5-5 more than head to head? but look at some of the other teams ahead of both of these teams and it makes me chuckle - PV A&M, Butler (in at least on poll), Liberty (think we beat them at their place too),UMASS (yes the team we just beat at their place), Texas St, CCSU, Dayton, Alabama A&M it goes on and on. Apparently record means a lot more than a good schedule. it's complete BS, and anyone who won't admit it is lying to themselves..

Thank you, I just don't know why it's only JMU fans that see this...I'm not even comparing JMU to those other teams because we don't have a lot of results that so clearly support putting JMU above them.

I'll sit on this for another week, but if UD loses and JMU wins and JMU is still not ahead of UD, then I...well, I don't know what I'll do... :o

UD's best win is UMass, well JMU has that too...I just don't get it.

[ElonPride]

...Beat that Drum...

This is a post from UNH_Alum_In_CT here: http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1466590#post1466590



Now, I'm not saying that Ball State would be the best team in the FCS, but I would be fairly confident they'd be a threat to beat every team that Elon has beat. And even if you ignore this excellent analysis, how are you also ignoring a win over Villanova, which numerous people have pointed out to you.

When you run out of facts to back up your point, is this the strategy?

Ok then, using that same strat, let's now include Wake as a "quality loss." 4-7, 5 losses combined 13 points, took #7 ranked GT to OT, and lost to top 25 Miami by 1.......xeyebrowx

[WrenFGun]

Ok then, using that same strat, let's now include Wake as a "quality loss." 4-7, 5 losses combined 13 points, took #7 ranked GT to OT, and lost to top 25 Miami by 1.......xeyebrowx

I think everyone was including Wake (and any FBS game) as a "quality loss." xeyebrowx

[FCS Go!]

Thank you, I just don't know why it's only JMU fans that see this...I'm not even comparing JMU to those other teams because we don't have a lot of results that so clearly support putting JMU above them.

I'll sit on this for another week, but if UD loses and JMU wins and JMU is still not ahead of UD, then I...well, I don't know what I'll do... :o

UD's best win is UMass, well JMU has that too...I just don't get it.

I had JMU as my last team out on my ballot (sorry Penn got my 25 spot). Delaware was unranked on my ballot. I think this phenomenon is a result of Delaware's history, tradition and attendence more so than what they've done on the field this year. Call it the "Griz Effect" if you want but Delaware is often overrated, just like Montana, Georgia Southern, Youngstown St, Grambling and even McNeese St.

[HensRock]

I hate to be 'that guy', because none of this matters....but here goes.

What does it take for JMU to get some love now?

A couple weeks ago, I was questioning how JMU could be left out after having beaten two teams in the top 25. Cooler heads explained that, at a certain point, JMU needs to win some games and people don't like voting teams with losing records. That answer was satisfactory two weeks ago.

So now, they've beaten Maine and Umass and are now at .500.

Yet, things aren't really any better.

I can accept that JMU's not ranked, but how can they not be ahead of Delaware now? JMU and UD's conference schedules are about identical. JMU's OOC is stronger, JMU has the H2H, and JMU actually has a winning record in D-I play. Delaware has no wins against the top 25 to JMU's two.

I get that there is still a week left in the season. By this time next week, JMU and UD will have played an identical conference schedule. If JMU wins and UD loses (not an unlikely scenario), would that finally put JMU over UD and back into the polls? Or are people not going to pay that close attention?

Looking for those same cooler heads to explain this one.

Dukie,
FWIW - I had JMU ahead of UD in my ballot last week.

[89Hen]

Flip flop the bottom three with the top 4 and you have decent poll.

xnonono2x
West Coast bias. xnonono2x

[89Hen]

Still my biggest problem with this poll.......a complete homer joke if you ask me. #1 in coaches and #2 in TSN and get no respect here. 10-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously? xcoolx

#3 in the AGS and # 2 in the TSN.... what the hell are the coaches thinking? Sounds stupid, doesn't it? Well....

[89Hen]

Wow....i will take back the homer joke comment for you only....thx for the support
What about a voter that has SIU and VU ahead of Montana... how exactly can they be a "homer" with two teams from different conferences, nowhere near each other. The people that thow out "homer" are....

http://www.sallyminker.com/art/2-d/images/grapes-print.jpg

[JMUNJ08]

Oh ok, so even though Elon has wins over teams more highly rated than Ball St, there's no quality wins.....even though UNH gets to claim Ball St as a quality win. Great logic! phh....

JMU could play the top 10 in FBS and lose badly to each then play Elon and lose. JMU would be highly rated with 0 wins and Elon would get a boost in their ranking. I don't like the rankings for that reason.

No team you beat is even sniffing the post season. That was the point. UNH beat a BAD FBS (last I checked UCA still counts Western Kentucky as a good win) and a Classy Nova team. Thats 1 post season team to your none.

[GannonFan]

So you're ok with taking two tied teams, and ranking the one that lost to the other ahead?

And you say the computer polls are crap.

They're not tied yet - probably will be come next week, but UD still has to lose to nova before they have 5 losses as JMU does. If UD loses to nova as expected, they won't be ranked. JMU may not be ranked either, but they'll have a better shot of being ranked.

[UncleSam]

Ok then, using that same strat, let's now include Wake as a "quality loss." 4-7, 5 losses combined 13 points, took #7 ranked GT to OT, and lost to top 25 Miami by 1.......xeyebrowx

How can anyone call getting whacked 35-7 by a very mediocre Wake Forest team a "quality loss"???

[Squealofthepig]

How can anyone call getting whacked 35-7 by a very mediocre Wake Forest team a "quality loss"???

Note his use of quotation marks. You just made the same point he did on the value of a "quality loss".

[WrenFGun]

The end result is that I really just wonder what voters are looking at when they vote teams highly. Elon hasn't had anything on their resume all season, and they were continually voted up. Same with teams like Northern Iowa and Appalachian State, though at least both those teams played good teams competitively.

[JMUNJ08]

They're not tied yet - probably will be come next week, but UD still has to lose to nova before they have 5 losses as JMU does. If UD loses to nova as expected, they won't be ranked. JMU may not be ranked either, but they'll have a better shot of being ranked.

Correct. Not tied yet but if they lose and JMU wins JMU will be 6-5 and UD 5-5 against D1 competition. JMU should be at least knocking on the door...

[jmufan999]

i kinda am hoping to see montana get a #1 or #2 seed. i'm telling you RIGHT now, either Richmond or Villanova will not be the LEAST bit intimidated playing there. those are two very, very talented teams. one or the other could be in the bracket and i hope they win. possibly W&M but i haven't seen them play yet.

[JMUNJ08]

i kinda am hoping to see montana get a #1 or #2 seed. i'm telling you RIGHT now, either Richmond or Villanova will not be the LEAST bit intimidated playing there. those are two very, very talented teams. one or the other could be in the bracket and i hope they win. possibly W&M but i haven't seen them play yet.

Great TEAM in W&M. I saw them opening day at UVA. I would put the line at even against Montana to maybe 1-2 points in Montana's favor @ Wash-Griz. They won't beat themselves and can beat you in several ways. Would hope they would put on TV as the Griz will not be able to shake off the Tribe.

[Native]

That may be true, but you can't hold that against Prairie View. They've done a phenomenal job against their schedule and haven't lost an FCS game. Henry Frazier may soon be a hot name in the coaching circles. He rebuilt Bowie State, and now PVAMU; which was once the worst program in FCS football.xthumbsupx

No one is holding anything against Prairie View, but the Panthers do not exist in a vacuum. No one should hold anything against the other 15 teams in competition for spots 21-25 in the polls. There are at least 20 FCS teams and probably more like 35 teams that would beat them hands down on a neutral field.

[Native]

Guess I need to have my head examined.

Don't have to have your head examined, since HC gets the autobid.

Are you taking bets on round 1? xlolx