Touchdown Yes--NO Opinion please

[udchuck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHj54KbpR8

[Skjellyfetti]

It's really close. I can't tell for sure from that video.

[DetroitFlyer]

This is the last play in the Butler at Dayton game. The officials ruled that the Dayton receiver was down at the 2 inch line, no TD. Final score Butler 31 Dayton 28....

I think this was a TD. Suffice to say the Butler fans I have spoken with do not agree....

[AppAlum2003]

Video's inconclusive.

[BigSouthFB]

half his body is over the line when his knees go down including the ball. My vote is TD.

[PhoenixMan]

Touchdown. I looked at it several times, and although not completely conclusive from that video, I have to give that young man a TD

[AppAlum2003]

If it makes you feel any better, Ed Hoculi would call that a TD.

[ToTheLeft]

Looks to me like the ball hits the ground on the two inch line as he comes to a rest on the ground, with his knees hitting the ground prior to that. Looks like no TD to me, unless there is a stretching of the arms that is blocked from that view.

[lionsrking2]

From what I can tell, I would have to say it's a touchdown...that said, the official is looking right at it and he seems pretty confident the ball didn't cross before the knee touched down...have to give him the benefit of the doubt, though it does look like a TD to me.

[unicat87]

Looks like a TD to me, but I wasn't just standing right there like the official. I would have to see other angles and slow motion. It was hard to tell from that video on YouTube. -unicat87 :)

[SumItUp]

Looked like a TD to me, but the angle was bad and the video quality was not good. The referee was in position to make the call so he probably made the right call.

[JayJ79]

There's no video replay reviews in FCS (at least not during the regular season, unless they're playing certain FBS teams).

And since even the video is inconclusive, I can't really rag on the official either way.

[McTailGator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHj54KbpR8

Impossible to tell from this angle.

[techstate]

So close. The Butler players thought he was in until the ref set the ball down. Not a great angle but... he looks in to me and then get hit back after he hits the ground.
TOUCH DOWN

[MaximumBobcat]

That slowmo isn't very slow, but looks like a TD to me.

[Head Cat]

He came out of the end zone to make the catch and it looks like he is down short of the goal line. The officials are in excellent position and they made a definitive call. I say NO TD.

[AggieRX]

From that angle looks like a touchdown to me

[blukeys]

No way I could tell from the high sideline camera angle and the multitude of players around the play.

[MSUDuo]

No TD for me. Looks like only his head and shoulders are over the goal line with his arms and football tucked into his stomach when his knee hits.

[nwFL Griz]

As has been said, hard to tell from that angle, but based on what I've seen...I say TD.

[89Hen]

Too grainy and bad angle to tell. Sure looks like it could very well have been a TD.

[downbythebeach]

i would say no, it appears when his knees hit the ball isnt fully extended

[I-AA Fan]

How about this? Play the game as it should be. A player must "in" the end-zone, in possession of the ball. No sticking the ball over the line. No catching the ball in the air and not coming down. No leaping across the line & pile, being pushed back. No going out of bounds on the 1-yd line & holding the ball out. If you go out-of-bounds on the 1-yd line, you went out on the 1-yard line. At least one foot must be in the end-zone college ...2 in the NFL. Furthermore, I could care less if you would have come down in-bounds had you not been pushed out. It is a defender's job to push the receiver out ...it is the receiver's job to come down in-bounds. My gosh, this is why I hate the NFL; a bunch of over-paid under-talented trash. Concrete rules like this would solve all of these problems. People are too willing to accept mediocrity these days.

[txstatebobcat]

half his body is over the line when his knees go down including the ball. My vote is TD.

Yep, definitely a touchdown for the same reason BigSouthFB said.

[jlcharles]

impossible to tell. I'll defer to the ref who was 5 feet away as opposed to the camera 75 yards away at a bad angle.

[lucchesicourt]

Looks like a TD for me. After slowing down the video, it looks like his left knee doesn't hit until after the ball crossed the LOS.However, I could not see the right knee and when it hit. But, I would call it SIX!

[401ks]

From a post of mine on the PFL board:

After watching the YouTube video over 20 times I have the following observations:

1. It is impossible to tell from this clip whether or not the football had crossed the goal line before the receiver's (right) knee hit the ground.

2. The receiver caught the ball outside of the end zone. He was not pushed out of the end zone after the catch as some have claimed (in other threads).

3. The officials missed the obvious holding call on Dayton's #76 as he got a hold of Butler's #59 and spun him around as #59 chased down the Dayton QB.

4. Both (home) officials who were right on the goal line indicated at the time of the play (and the Dayton receiver himself stated immediately after the game) that the football had not broken the plane of the goal line before the receiver's knee was down. There was no hesitation in the call.

Conclusion:

It is impossible to tell with certainty from this clip whether or not the football had crossed the plane of the goal line before the receiver's knee was down. The ruling on the field would stand even with the NFL replay.

The officials missed the blatant holding call on Dayton's #76 before the pass was thrown. A proper call on the holding penalty would make any TD controversy completely moot.

I was fully prepared to acknowledge a blown call by the officials on the TD if I saw clear evidence of the error. This is not the case.

[wideright82]

Looked to me like his left knee was down before the ball broke the plane. In all honesty, may have been a bad spot too CLOSE to the endzone. If anything though, it is too close to call based on this clip.

[401ks]

I found this partial quote from a VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE Dayton fan from the Dayton forum:

... Just back from the game.... I clearly saw a ref signal a TD. I was at about the 35 yard line of the Flyers, so I could not tell if he was in, SO, I was specifically looking for a call.... The ref signaled a TD, the crowd went wild celebrating the amazing win, and then they pulled the rug right out from under us.... Man, I cannot believe the refs would miss on such an important call....

OK, that said, Butler earned the victory. We were outplayed AND outcoached. Key coaching breakdown was at the end of the first half. We have the ball with less than two minutes left, (give or take). We call and execute two short runs, blow the third down and punt. Butler marches down the field and scores.... Classic case of playing a "prevent offense"....

So, here is my expert advice to the UD staff if that situation comes up again in a game of this magnitude: PLAY TO WIN.

Next, I have to say that our run defense was horrible. Either that, or Butler has the best blocking offense I have ever seen. Again, I tip my hat to the Butler coaching staff. Great game plan and on offense, GREAT run blocking. Huck's TD scamper was a thing of beauty for a Butler fan. Amazing blocking and he basically ran in untouched....

The other major breakdown was the three TO's. Tino is a smart player, but he really needs to get more focused in the red zone. His interception down there was terrible. He should have run, instead he threw the ball right to a Butler player.... Two weeks in a row that Tino mistakes have taken points off the board.... I could not see what happened when JMike fumbled, but I think it was just a good play by Butler. Tino's other interception was maybe a bit underthrown, but the Butler player made a good play to bring it in. Like I said, Butler made the plays today, the Flyers did not.

http://udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11276

Of course this poster was mistaken, as the video clearly shows, regarding the ref signalling a TD. He was simply raising his arms to signal the end of the play. Fans see what they want to see. This is sort of like seeing the image of Jesus on a piece of toast. Some will say that it is a miracle. Others will say that the toast is burnt.

xpeacex

[iceman4221]

From a post of mine on the PFL board:

After watching the YouTube video over 20 times I have the following observations:

1. It is impossible to tell from this clip whether or not the football had crossed the goal line before the receiver's (right) knee hit the ground.

2. The receiver caught the ball outside of the end zone. He was not pushed out of the end zone after the catch as some have claimed (in other threads).

3. The officials missed the obvious holding call on Dayton's #76 as he got a hold of Butler's #59 and spun him around as #59 chased down the Dayton QB.

4. Both (home) officials who were right on the goal line indicated at the time of the play (and the Dayton receiver himself stated immediately after the game) that the football had not broken the plane of the goal line before the receiver's knee was down. There was no hesitation in the call.

Conclusion:

It is impossible to tell with certainty from this clip whether or not the football had crossed the plane of the goal line before the receiver's knee was down. The ruling on the field would stand even with the NFL replay.

The officials missed the blatant holding call on Dayton's #76 before the pass was thrown. A proper call on the holding penalty would make any TD controversy completely moot.

I was fully prepared to acknowledge a blown call by the officials on the TD if I saw clear evidence of the error. This is not the case.


Great Replay review and analysis...

I definite concluded that Daytons #76 HELD Butlers #59 from sacking and/or disrupting the QB's ability to deliver the football - the officials missed that call, but beyond that, there's no conclusive evidence to overturned the "No TD Decision" by the Referees... At least not in this video camera angle...xthumbsupx

[smcwildcat]

no td easy call....good call

[JMUNJ08]

Wild play to end a game. Not too often do you complete the hail mary at the end of the game and fail to get the winning score....nice job by the refs. Are they free on Saturdays for some game over this way?

[Monarch Nation]

It was mighty close but it looked to me like he caught the ball, hit the ground and slid into the endzone. His head was over from the start of the fall, but the ball looked like it was outside of the end zone when the knee went down.

Crazy ending to the game.

[ericsaid]

No, you can pause the video when his knee hits the ground and clearly see he is not over the line.

[WestCoastAggie]

Yuuup! Dayton got hosed.xthumbsupx

[bjtheflamesfan]

I looked at it very closely and there doesnt seem to be enough evidence to overturn the call on the field (no TD). its a very close call though

[Seahawks Fan]

Can't tell from that clip. Very close either way.