Why Montana will get the 2 Seed

[Appattk]

Provided they win out of course..

#1. They will be an undefeated FCS team
#2. They will have sole possession of the Big Sky Autobid

and the biggest reason

#3. $$$$

Being a 2 seed will all but guarantee the NCAA lots of money from Montana's large draw...

[Silenoz]

Assuming we don't lay an egg ala the Wofford game

[Appattk]

Assuming we don't lay an egg ala the Wofford game

I think that was a rare outlier in what is usually a pretty stout Montana post-season record....

You better believe the accountants at the NCAA headquarters were pulling for you in that game last year xsmiley_wix

[GannonFan]

I think that was a rare outlier in what is usually a pretty stout Montana post-season record....

You better believe the accountants at the NCAA headquarters were pulling for you in that game last year xsmiley_wix

Montana's got a fair amount of home first round losses in the past 10 years (4 in the last ten years). When Montana's good, they're good. But when they're not, they still get home games and not always for the better. xwhistlex

[WestCoastAggie]

Montana's got a fair amount of home first round losses in the past 10 years (4 in the last ten years). When Montana's good, they're good. But when they're not, they still get home games and not always for the better. xwhistlex

William & Mary, Richmond, Villanova, UNH & SIU will all have something to say before 11/22.

[uofmman1122]

Montana's got a fair amount of home first round losses in the past 10 years (4 in the last ten years). When Montana's good, they're good. But when they're not, they still get home games and not always for the better. xwhistlexYet we've only lost one of them by more than a field goal. xwhistlex

[GannonFan]

Yet we've only lost one of them by more than a field goal. xwhistlex

Hey, it's still 4 home, first round losses in 10 years. And in 3 of those 4 years, the team you lost to lost in the next round, so it's not like you were being beat by eventual national champs each of those years. For as much home field advantage as people rightfully give Wa-Griz, that's a pretty odd stat to have so many first round, home losses, to mostly unexceptional teams, in such a small time frame. xwhistlex

[uofmman1122]

Hey, it's still 4 home, first round losses in 10 years. And in 3 of those 4 years, the team you lost to lost in the next round, so it's not like you were being beat by eventual national champs each of those years. For as much home field advantage as people rightfully give Wa-Griz, that's a pretty odd stat to have so many first round, home losses, to mostly unexceptional teams, in such a small time frame. xwhistlexSo you're saying 99 Youngstown, the eventual runner up to GaSo was bad?

I'll give you 2003 WIU and 2005 Cal Poly.

We were bad those years.

2007 was a great game, and I doubt you could argue that 2007 Wofford was a bad team. They beat eventual NC champ ASU.

When you go the playoffs every year for the last 17 years, you're bound to have some down years.

How many other teams can claim something even close to that? xcoffeex

[Silenoz]

Montana's got a fair amount of home first round losses in the past 10 years (4 in the last ten years). When Montana's good, they're good. But when they're not, they still get home games and not always for the better. xwhistlex

It's always Delaware fans pointing this out xlolx

There's a message in there somewhere

(obligatory xwhistlex)

[GannonFan]

So you're saying 99 Youngstown, the eventual runner up to GaSo was bad?

I'll give you 2003 WIU and 2005 Cal Poly.

We were bad those years.

2007 was a great game, and I doubt you could argue that 2007 Wofford was a bad team. They beat eventual NC champ ASU.

When you go the playoffs every year for the last 17 years, you're bound to have some down years.

How many other teams can claim something even close to that? xcoffeex

No, I didn't say that about YSU, hence my 3 out of 4 comment. Clearly YSU was very good.

As you admit, WIU in '03 and Cal Poly in '05 weren't exceptional teams. In '07, I'm just looking at what Wofford did after beating you. They went home, and lost by double digits, at home, to a Richmond team that got blown out in Boone the week after that. Surely Wofford was a decent team, but again, they lost the very next week, at home.

Obviously no one can match Montana's playoff streak, but that may be more of a point of the Big Sky not jumping past them in Montana's down years. Losing first round games at home could very well be a down year, but other teams don't have that resume because in those years they either don't make the playoffs or they don't play at home in the first round.

[uofmman1122]

It's always Delaware fans pointing this out xlolx

There's a message in there somewhereWell, to be fair, I think it's along the same lines as to why I always bring up that Montana is undefeated against Appy. xlolx

[GannonFan]

It's always Delaware fans pointing this out xlolx

There's a message in there somewhere

(obligatory xwhistlex)


Well, if you guys would fess up every now and then we wouldn't have to do it for you, would we??? xlolx

[grizzpaw]

and sometimes teams that would have hosted the game LOST so montana got the game, so blame that on winning again!

[nmatsen]

Coming from someone who has played in a playoff game wearing white at WaGriz in the playoffs, any team that walks out of there a winner is good. Regardless of year.

[Tailbone]

Montana's got a fair amount of home first round losses in the past 10 years (4 in the last ten years). When Montana's good, they're good. But when they're not, .............. xwhistlex

.......We can blame it on a rookie head coach! xlolx

[Silenoz]

Coming from someone who has played in a playoff game wearing white at WaGriz in the playoffs, any team that walks out of there a winner is good. Regardless of year.

You're the one who punched DeCoite, aren't you!?


xlolx :p

[uofmman1122]

You're the one who punched DeCoite, aren't you!?


xlolx :pxlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[jmufan999]

Coming from someone who has played in a playoff game wearing white at WaGriz in the playoffs, any team that walks out of there a winner is good. Regardless of year.

no offense, but how is this relevant? the subject isn't "Is Montana a good home team" it's "Why Montana will get the 2 seed".... those two topics have nothing to do with each other. the committee doesn't take home records into account when making selections, at least they don't say they do.

[Madisonian]

It's hard to argue that they shouldn't be seeded #2 if The Griz finish undefeated. And the Money thing doesn't hurt either...

[griz&beer]

If the griz win out there is no way they should not be number 1 mabey 2. no way 3 or less

[Touchdown Yosef]

They could take the 1 seed and its not that hard to see.

[Houndawg]

They could take the 1 seed and its not that hard to see.

SIU would have to lose for that to happen.

[gbhmt]

no offense, but how is this relevant? the subject isn't "Is Montana a good home team" it's "Why Montana will get the 2 seed".... those two topics have nothing to do with each other. the committee doesn't take home records into account when making selections, at least they don't say they do.

Did you read any of the first page? xlolx

[HLNgriz]

2007 Wofford was a great game. Griz have a lot of respect for the Wofford program, great coach and team. Griz did what they had to do at the end of the game to win it and Dan Carpenter who is now with the Dolphins misses a FG that would have won the game. End of story and end of season.

[HLNgriz]

I remember a SIU team that was suppose to run all over us a few years back. didn't work out so well for SIU.

[WyomingGrizFan]

If the God Damned Selection Committee gets their ****in' head out of their ****in' ass hole and start being human/equitable around this here place then they'd be seeding the top eight teams and dispensing with the god damned 'regional' backeting crap that those son-of-a-pigs come out with every year!!!

In other words, don't blame nobody else for what some pack of chrome domes do just because power goes to their heads and they just got to exercise it every once in a while just to remind everybody around here just who the boss is: THE FCS Playoff Selection Committee.

In other words, take it up with those son of a pigs if you don't like it!!! They're the ones making the decisions on who goes where when and all that other BS. Not you (If that's applicable). Not me (As far as I know). THEM!!!!

YOU GET THE MESSAGE, DUUDE!!!!

[GolfingGriz]

no offense, but how is this relevant? the subject isn't "Is Montana a good home team" it's "Why Montana will get the 2 seed".... those two topics have nothing to do with each other. the committee doesn't take home records into account when making selections, at least they don't say they do.

Really jmufan? On a message board where topics rarely stay on track, you are going to call out someone for barely changing the subject...xeyebrowx

[nmatsen]

It really had to do with respect for the environment, fans, and stadium. Wa-Griz is second to none in FCS and is an extremely tough place to win regardless of how good Montana is. I think even Montana fans would agree that their Home Field Advantage is worth 7-10 points a game. I was responding to some who were saying that the reason the road teams had won there the last ten seasons were because the griz weren't that good and neither were the teams that beat them. I was just trying to defend the teams that walk out of that stadium with a W and the character and composure it takes to be successful in that environment. Especially for a bunch of teams from the CAA that are used to playing in front of half full high school stadiums.

[UncleSam]

If Montana wins out they will either be the #1 or #2 seed. Either way it makes no difference as both of those seeds would have home field all the way to Chattanooga.

[UncleSam]

Especially for a bunch of teams from the CAA that are used to playing in front of half full high school stadiums.

I thought CAA teams played some games at Delaware Stadium???

[WMTribe90]

If WM, SIU and VU all win out I think a strong case could be made that Montana should be a three or four seed. All four teams would have 10 DI wins and WM and VU would have quality FBS wins. In the case of WM we would have finished the year beating two top 10 teams. I imagine WM, SIU and VU would al finish above Montana in the GPI and Sagarin ratings as well.

[nmatsen]

I thought CAA teams played some games at Delaware Stadium???

True, my bad. Sorry about that.

[GannonFan]

It really had to do with respect for the environment, fans, and stadium. Wa-Griz is second to none in FCS and is an extremely tough place to win regardless of how good Montana is. I think even Montana fans would agree that their Home Field Advantage is worth 7-10 points a game. I was responding to some who were saying that the reason the road teams had won there the last ten seasons were because the griz weren't that good and neither were the teams that beat them. I was just trying to defend the teams that walk out of that stadium with a W and the character and composure it takes to be successful in that environment. Especially for a bunch of teams from the CAA that are used to playing in front of half full high school stadiums.


I thought CAA teams played some games at Delaware Stadium???

Not to mention that JMU has moved up to be 10th in attendance with about 15k per game, and then you throw in ODU coming into the league and they already average over 19k with just a start-up team, and then you figure that most CAA teams play an FBS team. Kind of an odd statement. Most CAA teams will have already played in front of a crowd larger than what you see at Montana (assuming the FBS games).

If anything, it's just the loudness. I know the UNI-Dome was significantly loud, and I assume Montana is a little less than that (no dome). But noise can be dealt with. But the size of the crowds shouldn't be an issue for a CAA team. Not every game is played at Northeastern. :D

[Grrrrriz]

If WM, SIU and VU all win out I think a strong case could be made that Montana should be a three or four seed. All four teams would have 10 DI wins and WM and VU would have quality FBS wins. In the case of WM we would have finished the year beating two top 10 teams. I imagine WM, SIU and VU would al finish above Montana in the GPI and Sagarin ratings as well.

SIU WM and VU combined won't make the money that a Montana game will. The seeds are going to mirror TSN and Coaches poll pretty closely I think.. Montana is going to be a 1 or 2 seed. Count on it. SIU will be a 1 or 2 depending on what Montana is seeded, Villanova 3rd, and another CAA or maybe Elon or App as a 4 seed. Plus, WM still has a pretty tough road ahead. You could actually throw a huge kink into it if you lose to Richmond, but beat NH.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Not to mention that JMU has moved up to be 10th in attendance with about 15k per game, and then you throw in ODU coming into the league and they already average over 19k with just a start-up team, and then you figure that most CAA teams play an FBS team. Kind of an odd statement. Most CAA teams will have already played in front of a crowd larger than what you see at Montana (assuming the FBS games).

If anything, it's just the loudness. I know the UNI-Dome was significantly loud, and I assume Montana is a little less than that (no dome). But noise can be dealt with. But the size of the crowds shouldn't be an issue for a CAA team. Not every game is played at Northeastern. :D

It's a factor, how big or small depends on the team. I have gone to most of the stadiums near me several times now, even Boise St. Wa-Griz is not necessarily louder than the others but they make a lot more noise or longer I guess and at the right times. The closeness of the crowd to the field is a factor in the effectiveness of the sound that is made as well as the concrete stands. It is mostly something us fans can yack about and keep us motivated and make us feel like part of the game. :D

[SpidersSportsEditor]

SIU WM and VU combined won't make the money that a Montana game will. The seeds are going to mirror TSN and Coaches poll pretty closely I think.. Montana is going to be a 1 or 2 seed. Count on it. SIU will be a 1 or 2 depending on what Montana is seeded, Villanova 3rd, and another CAA or maybe Elon or App as a 4 seed. Plus, WM still has a pretty tough road ahead. You could actually throw a huge kink into it if you lose to Richmond, but beat NH.

If Villanova is seeded third, behind SIU and Montana, something is seriously wrong with the system. If Nova wins out, it should be 1 or 2, no questions asked. Win at No. 1 Richmond, win at FBS Temple, big win over W&M and the only loss on the road to a top 10 team by less than a touchdown.

I'm curious about the fourth seed more than what seed Montana will get, though. Who's in line for #4? Assuming W&M beats UNH (which I know is no given), does the winner of Richmond/W&M get the 4th spot or does the winner of App/Elon steal it?

[GannonFan]

If Montana ends up scooting ahead of either SIU or nova for one of the top 2 seeds, I wouldn't be shocked if nova was the one bumped. However, I think you could see the CAA get 2 seeds then (the #3 and #4 seeds) as a result. Richmond would certainly be a candidate if they win out from here.

[WMTribe90]

SIU WM and VU combined won't make the money that a Montana game will. The seeds are going to mirror TSN and Coaches poll pretty closely I think.. Montana is going to be a 1 or 2 seed. Count on it. SIU will be a 1 or 2 depending on what Montana is seeded, Villanova 3rd, and another CAA or maybe Elon or App as a 4 seed. Plus, WM still has a pretty tough road ahead. You could actually throw a huge kink into it if you lose to Richmond, but beat NH.


Agreed, and if WM beats UNH and UR to end the season they should be ranked ahead of Montana.

If VU wins out they should be no worse than #2 seed and deserve the #1 seed IMO.

If WM wins out we will be top 2-3 in GPI and ahead of Montana.

Not saying WM WILL be seeded above Montana if it plays out in our favor, just that we SHOULD be. I have no doubt that the NCAA values the almighty dollar over the integrity of the competition.

[WMTribe90]

If Villanova is seeded third, behind SIU and Montana, something is seriously wrong with the system. If Nova wins out, it should be 1 or 2, no questions asked. Win at No. 1 Richmond, win at FBS Temple, big win over W&M and the only loss on the road to a top 10 team by less than a touchdown.

I'm curious about the fourth seed more than what seed Montana will get, though. Who's in line for #4? Assuming W&M beats UNH (which I know is no given), does the winner of Richmond/W&M get the 4th spot or does the winner of App/Elon steal it?

Stealing is the right word for it. I don't see ASU getting a seed regardless of the outcome this weekend. I don't see a two loss team from a down SoCon jumping over a one loss team from the CAA.

Unfortunately, I do see a one loss Elon team stealing a seed over a second (and more deserving) CAA team if they win this weekend. UR, WM and UNH should all be routing for ASU this weekend IMO.

[Grrrrriz]

If Villanova is seeded third, behind SIU and Montana, something is seriously wrong with the system. If Nova wins out, it should be 1 or 2, no questions asked. Win at No. 1 Richmond, win at FBS Temple, big win over W&M and the only loss on the road to a top 10 team by less than a touchdown.

I'm curious about the fourth seed more than what seed Montana will get, though. Who's in line for #4? Assuming W&M beats UNH (which I know is no given), does the winner of Richmond/W&M get the 4th spot or does the winner of App/Elon steal it?

I really don't think that it is a problem with they system so much as it is that the CAA has been so top loaded this year that they are effectively beating each other out of seeds. Weber State did sort of the same thing, with two FBS games, but those games weren't conference games. Here is how I think the seeds probably should go: (as of right now)

1. SIU
2. Vill
3. Montana
4. Richmond/NH

Here is how I think they WILL go.

1 SIU/Montana
2. SIU/Montana
3. Villanova
4. App/Elon

I really think the committee will give the winner of the SoCon a seed over a second CAA team, especially if App State wins. Its unfortunate, because I truly think that Richmond, NH, WM, UNI, and SDSU are probably better than App State. Don't worry too much though, as you guys seem to do really well without a seed.

[UNH Fanboi]

If Richmond wins out, they should definitely get a seed over App/Elon. Same if W&M wins out.

The trickiest scenario is if UNH beats W&M, and W&M beats Richmond. I personally think UNH would be entitled to a seed over App/Elon, but I wouldn't expect it.

[UNH Fanboi]

If Richmond wins out, they should definitely get a seed over App/Elon. Same if W&M wins out.

The trickiest scenario is if UNH beats W&M, and W&M beats Richmond. I personally think UNH would be entitled to a seed over App/Elon, but I wouldn't expect it.

[GannonFan]

I really don't think that it is a problem with they system so much as it is that the CAA has been so top loaded this year that they are effectively beating each other out of seeds. Weber State did sort of the same thing, with two FBS games, but those games weren't conference games. Here is how I think the seeds probably should go: (as of right now)

1. SIU
2. Vill
3. Montana
4. Richmond/NH

Here is how I think they WILL go.

1 SIU/Montana
2. SIU/Montana
3. Villanova
4. App/Elon

I really think the committee will give the winner of the SoCon a seed over a second CAA team, especially if App State wins. Its unfortunate, because I truly think that Richmond, NH, WM, UNI, and SDSU are probably better than App State. Don't worry too much though, as you guys seem to do really well without a seed.

I don't see Appy St getting the seed over a one-loss CAA team (say Richmond). I know the committee would love to have Appy be an assured host for two games, but Appy's got an FBS loss (to a middling ECU team) and an FCS loss. Plus factor in that the SoCon hasn't been great this year.

Now Elon, if they beat Appy, most likely will get the #4 seed over a second CAA team.

But I do agree with you on the SIU and Montana getting the top two seeds if they win out. And heck, if that happens and nova gets pushed down, then it's even more likely that the CAA gets the last two seeds, again assuming Elon loses to Appy.

[putter]

Unless they lose Montana will be in the mix. I personally don't care if the CAA received 1/2 of the seeds. Villanova would deserve one as could Richmond and W&M

[Grrrrriz]

Agreed, and if WM beats UNH and UR to end the season they should be ranked ahead of Montana.

If VU wins out they should be no worse than #2 seed and deserve the #1 seed IMO.

If WM wins out we will be top 2-3 in GPI and ahead of Montana.

Not saying WM WILL be seeded above Montana if it plays out in our favor, just that we SHOULD be. I have no doubt that the NCAA values the almighty dollar over the integrity of the competition.

The thing you have to remember is that polls are for who the voters think is the best team, regardless of schedule or "quality wins". Last year there were probably a few teams that deserved a seed over Montana, but they still made it to the NC. I really think the Seeds are a reflection of who the committee thinks are the 4 best, plus cash. In my opinion, nobody deserves the 1 seed over SIU. Although, if W&M wins out, which is no small task with your remaining opponents, I can see an argument for you guys getting a seed. That would take NH and Richmond out of any seeding argument. As it stands now, they have a pretty good one.

[Grrrrriz]

I don't see Appy St getting the seed over a one-loss CAA team (say Richmond). I know the committee would love to have Appy be an assured host for two games, but Appy's got an FBS loss (to a middling ECU team) and an FCS loss. Plus factor in that the SoCon hasn't been great this year.

Now Elon, if they beat Appy, most likely will get the #4 seed over a second CAA team.

But I do agree with you on the SIU and Montana getting the top two seeds if they win out. And heck, if that happens and nova gets pushed down, then it's even more likely that the CAA gets the last two seeds, again assuming Elon loses to Appy.

After thinking about it, I agree with you. I think that if the CAA doesn't get one of the top two, the committee would be more likely to give them two seeds being the 3/4. If a CAA team gets one of the top two, I bet they don't throw the CAA that bone (2 seeds), regardless of whether they deserve it.

[Grrrrriz]

If Richmond wins out, they should definitely get a seed over App/Elon. Same if W&M wins out.

The trickiest scenario is if UNH beats W&M, and W&M beats Richmond. I personally think UNH would be entitled to a seed over App/Elon, but I wouldn't expect it.

I definitely think that W&M, NH, and Richmond all deserve seeds over App or Elon. I just don't think they will get it.

[UNH Fanboi]

Now Elon, if they beat Appy, most likely will get the #4 seed over a second CAA team.


It's sad that everyone has such a low opinion of the objectivity of the committee and seems to just accept that they'll give out a seed for balance or attendance reasons. The 2nd CAA team will have two top-10 wins, an FBS win, and only one loss to another top-10 team (except in the case of UNH). The winner of ASU-Elon will have one big win, and a very weak schedule outside of that win. I can really only see the argument if it comes down to UNH v. Elon and Elon wins out because their only loss is to an FBS and the UMass loss is embarrassing. But even that would be specious given Elon's SoS.

[UncleSam]

I I can really only see the argument if it comes down to UNH v. Elon and Elon wins out because their only loss is to an FBS and the UMass loss is embarrassing. But even that would be specious given Elon's SoS.

A loss to UMass is not embarrassing.

[uofmman1122]

A loss to UMass is not embarrassing.Well, it's certainly nothing to be proud of if one is arguing for a seed.

[UncleSam]

Well, it's certainly nothing to be proud of if one is arguing for a seed.

UMass, like about 6 other CAA teams is very capable of beating anyone on their home field. However, I realize the concept that a middle of the pack conference team could whip the league's top team is a totally foreign concept to Montana and BSC fans. :p

[Silenoz]

UMass, like about 6 other CAA teams is very capable of beating anyone on their home field. However, I realize the concept that a middle of the pack conference team could whip the league's top team is a totally foreign concept to Montana and BSC fans. :p

I'd be embarrassed if we lost to MSU, but that's just me xlolx


Yeah, I went there

[putter]

UMass, like about 6 other CAA teams is very capable of beating anyone on their home field. However, I realize the concept that a middle of the pack conference team could whip the league's top team is a totally foreign concept to Montana and BSC fans. :p

Nah,, the BSC is so good, Montana almost lost to the last place team......xlolx :p

[UncleSam]

Nah,, the BSC is so good, Montana almost lost to the last place team......xlolx :p


True! :D

[GannonFan]

It's sad that everyone has such a low opinion of the objectivity of the committee and seems to just accept that they'll give out a seed for balance or attendance reasons. The 2nd CAA team will have two top-10 wins, an FBS win, and only one loss to another top-10 team (except in the case of UNH). The winner of ASU-Elon will have one big win, and a very weak schedule outside of that win. I can really only see the argument if it comes down to UNH v. Elon and Elon wins out because their only loss is to an FBS and the UMass loss is embarrassing. But even that would be specious given Elon's SoS.

But keep in mind, as much as we like to talk rankings and polls, in reality, there is very little interactions between the conferences during the year. How many times has a CAA team played a Big Sky team? How many times has a SoCon team played a MVFC team? And even if they played, which teams were involves, when did they play, where were the games, what were the injuries, etc. Rankings and polls are nice, but they also make assumptions based on very little data, if any at all. I've got no problem with the committee spreading out the seeds over what appear to be the better teams from the better conferences - that's more an attempt at real objectivity than trying to rely on either human polls (better) or computer rankings (worse) when those systems tend to pretend they are objective when the sample size is way too small to credibly tout objectivity, at least any more than what the committee comes up with.

[89Hen]

I'd be embarrassed if we lost to MSU, but that's just me xlolx


Nah,, the BSC is so good, Montana almost lost to the last place team......xlolx :p
Maybe Montana was trying to lose to Idaho State so they could hand the Big Sky auto to Montana State... again. xsmiley_wix

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Maybe Montana was trying to lose to Idaho State so they could hand the Big Sky auto to Montana State... again. xsmiley_wix

Don't make me smack you Beavis. xnonono2xxsmiley_wix

[GrizNzonecrazy]

My best argument for the Griz to get a 1 or a 2 is as follows:

First, we are already #1 in the coaches poll and without a doubt will remain there if they win out.

Second, we are #2 in the sports network poll and are only 24 points behind #1 SIU with 64 1st place ballots to SIU's 37. IF the Griz win out (which is very likely) i can see us gaining ground on SIU and possibly even overtake them and finish at #1 in that poll as well. (and who cares about any of the other polls, including AGS, as they have no impact of the selection process)

And last, WE WERE THE RUNNER UP LAST YEAR AND HAVE NOT LOST SINCE! There is no question that based on that alone we deserve the #1 or #2 seed.

If all of your east coast teams are so good then they shouldnt have any problem coming to Missoula and winning at WA-Griz. And even if we do get a 3 or 4 i'm not really that worried. It seems to me that we had to go on the road at #1 JMU in the semi's last year and punched our ticket to chatty on their home field (and that was going to be a blowout according to all u east coasters on here as the griz were supposedly way over rated last year......) I really think that any of the top big sky teams could beat ANY CAA team on any given weekend, home or away. EWU, Weber St, NAU, and Montana St are all good football teams that have beaten each other up all year. Take away the "money games" vs teams like Arizona St, Colorado St, Wyoming, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Cal, Ole Miss, etc..... the big sky could be looking at 3 or 4 bids. And this doesnt even count Cal Poly (who beat SDSU - and no one seems to the that SDSU isnt playoff worthy) or UC Davis who played a hell of a game until the 4th quarter AT BOISE ST! The real issue here is the top to bottom parody of the West and the top heavy talent of the east. Even Idaho St could beat Rhode ISland, Towson, Northeastern, etc... The bottom of the CAA could be the worst teams in FCS. I'd take the sky top to bottom over any league in the country.

Have fun on your trip to Missoula you whiny ba$tards! GO GRIZ!

[Houndawg]

My best argument for the Griz to get a 1 or a 2 is as follows:

First, we are already #1 in the coaches poll and without a doubt will remain there if they win out.

Second, we are #2 in the sports network poll and are only 24 points behind #1 SIU with 64 1st place ballots to SIU's 37. IF the Griz win out (which is very likely) i can see us gaining ground on SIU and possibly even overtake them and finish at #1 in that poll as well. (and who cares about any of the other polls, including AGS, as they have no impact of the selection process)

And last, WE WERE THE RUNNER UP LAST YEAR AND HAVE NOT LOST SINCE! There is no question that based on that alone we deserve the #1 or #2 seed.

If all of your east coast teams are so good then they shouldnt have any problem coming to Missoula and winning at WA-Griz. And even if we do get a 3 or 4 i'm not really that worried. It seems to me that we had to go on the road at #1 JMU in the semi's last year and punched our ticket to chatty on their home field (and that was going to be a blowout according to all u east coasters on here as the griz were supposedly way over rated last year......) I really think that any of the top big sky teams could beat ANY CAA team on any given weekend, home or away. EWU, Weber St, NAU, and Montana St are all good football teams that have beaten each other up all year. Take away the "money games" vs teams like Arizona St, Colorado St, Wyoming, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Cal, Ole Miss, etc..... the big sky could be looking at 3 or 4 bids. And this doesnt even count Cal Poly (who beat SDSU - and no one seems to the that SDSU isnt playoff worthy) or UC Davis who played a hell of a game until the 4th quarter AT BOISE ST! The real issue here is the top to bottom parody of the West and the top heavy talent of the east. Even Idaho St could beat Rhode ISland, Towson, Northeastern, etc... The bottom of the CAA could be the worst teams in FCS. I'd take the sky top to bottom over any league in the country.

Have fun on your trip to Missoula you whiny ba$tards! GO GRIZ!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[UNH Fanboi]

But keep in mind, as much as we like to talk rankings and polls, in reality, there is very little interactions between the conferences during the year. How many times has a CAA team played a Big Sky team? How many times has a SoCon team played a MVFC team? And even if they played, which teams were involves, when did they play, where were the games, what were the injuries, etc. Rankings and polls are nice, but they also make assumptions based on very little data, if any at all. I've got no problem with the committee spreading out the seeds over what appear to be the better teams from the better conferences - that's more an attempt at real objectivity than trying to rely on either human polls (better) or computer rankings (worse) when those systems tend to pretend they are objective when the sample size is way too small to credibly tout objectivity, at least any more than what the committee comes up with.

In any given year the top teams from the SoCon, BSC and MVFC are generally on the same level as the top CAA teams. The CAA's strength is its DEPTH, and there is plenty of objective evidence that the CAA has the most depth at the top. What other conference could produce 4 first-round playoff winners? What other conference could produce 4 FBS wins (OK, 3.5)? The CAA should certainly be in consideration for getting 2 seeds, particularly since the SoCon seems a little weak this year

Yes the information is limited, but making a decision on limited information is better than just throwing up your hands and giving a seed to the SoCon for the sake of it. The information available to me indicates that a 10-1 CAA team would be more deserving of a seed than Elon or ASU. ASU and Elon lost their only OOC games against decent opponents. Villanova, W&M and Richmond each have big OOC wins. I'll be interested to see how Duke (who Richmond beat) does against Wake Forest (who dominated Elon) in two weeks.

[kalm]

And last, WE WERE THE RUNNER UP LAST YEAR AND HAVE NOT LOST SINCE! There is no question that based on that alone we deserve the #1 or #2 seed.

If all of your east coast teams are so good then they shouldnt have any problem coming to Missoula and winning at WA-Griz. And even if we do get a 3 or 4 i'm not really that worried. It seems to me that we had to go on the road at #1 JMU in the semi's last year and punched our ticket to chatty on their home field (and that was going to be a blowout according to all u east coasters on here as the griz were supposedly way over rated last year......) I really think that any of the top big sky teams could beat ANY CAA team on any given weekend, home or away. EWU, Weber St, NAU, and Montana St are all good football teams that have beaten each other up all year. Take away the "money games" vs teams like Arizona St, Colorado St, Wyoming, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Cal, Ole Miss, etc..... the big sky could be looking at 3 or 4 bids. And this doesnt even count Cal Poly (who beat SDSU - and no one seems to the that SDSU isnt playoff worthy) or UC Davis who played a hell of a game until the 4th quarter AT BOISE ST! The real issue here is the top to bottom parody of the West and the top heavy talent of the east. Even Idaho St could beat Rhode ISland, Towson, Northeastern, etc... The bottom of the CAA could be the worst teams in FCS. I'd take the sky top to bottom over any league in the country.



xnodx

Add to that that the 4th place team in the Big Sky (NAU) beat SUU who beat top 20 Texas State.

For practical purposes you could combine the BSC and GWFC since they play each other so frequently.

[GannonFan]

In any given year the top teams from the SoCon, BSC and MVFC are generally on the same level as the top CAA teams. The CAA's strength is its DEPTH, and there is plenty of objective evidence that the CAA has the most depth at the top. What other conference could produce 4 first-round playoff winners? What other conference could produce 4 FBS wins (OK, 3.5)? The CAA should certainly be in consideration for getting 2 seeds, particularly since the SoCon seems a little weak this year

Yes the information is limited, but making a decision on limited information is better than just throwing up your hands and giving a seed to the SoCon for the sake of it. The information available to me indicates that a 10-1 CAA team would be more deserving of a seed than Elon or ASU. ASU and Elon lost their only OOC games against decent opponents. Villanova, W&M and Richmond each have big OOC wins. I'll be interested to see how Duke (who Richmond beat) does against Wake Forest (who dominated Elon) in two weeks.

And again, that depth is proved in the playoffs. The problem is, it's real difficult to take last year's results and apply them to this year.

As for Elon, they only have one loss, to an FBS team. Otherwise, they are undefeated in FCS play, and only one game was within 7 points. I'm not sure where the objective analysis can be made that that they are clearly not as good as one of the top CAA teams, especially if they beat Appy St this weekend.

Even if Duke beats Wake, what does that prove? Richmond played Duke more than 2 months ago now. Elon played Wake in the middle of September. And all that would provide is one lone data point. You seem to want to put a lot of emphasis on little to no actual data. That's why the committee does tend to spread out the seeds - let the playoffs happen and decide the outcome rather than try to predict it before it happens.

[GrizNzonecrazy]

I love it kalm.....they dont have a response lol. I'm with ya though....a health EWU with Boyce (the team we played in Missoula) could very easily be a top 10 team and with Nichols (who is far and away the best BSC QB) playing a good game could beat the piss out of any team from the CAA, SoCon, MVC, or SL conf. But then again a heathy NAU and a good game from Herrick and they do too. Not to mention Weber if Higgins were to finally play a game to his potential. Or the Cats even.....**** the east coast

[Reign of Terrier]

They went home, and lost by double digits, at home, to a Richmond team that got blown out in Boone the week after that. Surely Wofford was a decent team, but again, they lost the very next week, at home.


hate to divert the thread, but that Wofford team basically lost by single digits, we snapped a punt over our head with less than 5 minutes left in the game and hightower scored from like 1 yard out.

That Wofford team was good, I would like to know the records of East Coast teams going to Montana, winning, and coming back home to play the next week are.

[Houndawg]

I love it kalm.....they dont have a response lol. I'm with ya though....a health EWU with Boyce (the team we played in Missoula) could very easily be a top 10 team and with Nichols (who is far and away the best BSC QB) playing a good game could beat the piss out of any team from the CAA, SoCon, MVC, or SL conf. But then again a heathy NAU and a good game from Herrick and they do too. Not to mention Weber if Higgins were to finally play a game to his potential. Or the Cats even.....**** the east coast


And if a frog had wings he wouldn't whomp his ass a hoppin'.

[SpidersSportsEditor]

My best argument for the Griz to get a 1 or a 2 is as follows:

First, we are already #1 in the coaches poll and without a doubt will remain there if they win out.

Second, we are #2 in the sports network poll and are only 24 points behind #1 SIU with 64 1st place ballots to SIU's 37. IF the Griz win out (which is very likely) i can see us gaining ground on SIU and possibly even overtake them and finish at #1 in that poll as well. (and who cares about any of the other polls, including AGS, as they have no impact of the selection process)

And last, WE WERE THE RUNNER UP LAST YEAR AND HAVE NOT LOST SINCE! There is no question that based on that alone we deserve the #1 or #2 seed.

If all of your east coast teams are so good then they shouldnt have any problem coming to Missoula and winning at WA-Griz. And even if we do get a 3 or 4 i'm not really that worried. It seems to me that we had to go on the road at #1 JMU in the semi's last year and punched our ticket to chatty on their home field (and that was going to be a blowout according to all u east coasters on here as the griz were supposedly way over rated last year......) I really think that any of the top big sky teams could beat ANY CAA team on any given weekend, home or away. EWU, Weber St, NAU, and Montana St are all good football teams that have beaten each other up all year. Take away the "money games" vs teams like Arizona St, Colorado St, Wyoming, Michigan St, Oklahoma, Cal, Ole Miss, etc..... the big sky could be looking at 3 or 4 bids. And this doesnt even count Cal Poly (who beat SDSU - and no one seems to the that SDSU isnt playoff worthy) or UC Davis who played a hell of a game until the 4th quarter AT BOISE ST! The real issue here is the top to bottom parody of the West and the top heavy talent of the east. Even Idaho St could beat Rhode ISland, Towson, Northeastern, etc... The bottom of the CAA could be the worst teams in FCS. I'd take the sky top to bottom over any league in the country.

Have fun on your trip to Missoula you whiny ba$tards! GO GRIZ!


Well, the JMU game was a good win for the Griz, but Landers was hurt. And then the Griz got dismantled on a neutral field by a Richmond team that finished third in the CAA (I think). And that game could have been worse, Richmond missed a short field goal right before the half. This year, Richmond beat FBS Duke, W&M beat FBS Virginia and Villanova beat FBS Temple and they all will have played each other before playoff time. The CAA might be top heavy, but after watching the Griz play in the title game last year, I'd take Richmond, W&M, Villanova to beat them on a neutral field. I really don't think that's unreasonable. Saying that the bad teams in your league aren't THAT bad isn't a good argument when the best teams in the CAA all have to play each other multiple times. A one or two loss season in the CAA with an FBS win is much more impressive than running undefeated through the Big Sky.

[Silenoz]

Well, the JMU game was a good win for the Griz, but Landers was hurt. And then the Griz got dismantled on a neutral field by a Richmond team that finished third in the CAA (I think). And that game could have been worse, Richmond missed a short field goal right before the half.
Yeah, so did we... after we screwed up our first and goal with a false start

And as has been pointed out, Dudzik was arguably more effective than Landers anyways

Argh, why do I feel the need to defend UM in these things a year after the fact



The CAA might be top heavy, but after watching the Griz play in the title game last year, I'd take Richmond, W&M, Villanova to beat them on a neutral field.

And based on last year's games, I'll take Cal Poly over Elon by 40 points if they play on Saturday

(ok that was a straw man, but I think I make a good point :D )

[Silenoz]

Man, we are such a paper tiger to so many people here it seems!

That's fine though

[WMTribe90]

In any given year the top teams from the SoCon, BSC and MVFC are generally on the same level as the top CAA teams. The CAA's strength is its DEPTH, and there is plenty of objective evidence that the CAA has the most depth at the top. What other conference could produce 4 first-round playoff winners? What other conference could produce 4 FBS wins (OK, 3.5)? The CAA should certainly be in consideration for getting 2 seeds, particularly since the SoCon seems a little weak this year

Yes the information is limited, but making a decision on limited information is better than just throwing up your hands and giving a seed to the SoCon for the sake of it. The information available to me indicates that a 10-1 CAA team would be more deserving of a seed than Elon or ASU. ASU and Elon lost their only OOC games against decent opponents. Villanova, W&M and Richmond each have big OOC wins. I'll be interested to see how Duke (who Richmond beat) does against Wake Forest (who dominated Elon) in two weeks.


And again, that depth is proved in the playoffs. The problem is, it's real difficult to take last year's results and apply them to this year.

As for Elon, they only have one loss, to an FBS team. Otherwise, they are undefeated in FCS play, and only one game was within 7 points. I'm not sure where the objective analysis can be made that that they are clearly not as good as one of the top CAA teams, especially if they beat Appy St this weekend.

Even if Duke beats Wake, what does that prove? Richmond played Duke more than 2 months ago now. Elon played Wake in the middle of September. And all that would provide is one lone data point. You seem to want to put a lot of emphasis on little to no actual data. That's why the committee does tend to spread out the seeds - let the playoffs happen and decide the outcome rather than try to predict it before it happens.

UNH Fanboi 1 GF 0

There will be plenty of resume evidence by season's end to show a 10-1 CAA squad with an FBS win is better than a 10-1 Elon. SOS counts, or at least it should.

[Houndawg]

Well, the JMU game was a good win for the Griz, but Landers was hurt. And then the Griz got dismantled on a neutral field by a Richmond team that finished third in the CAA (I think). And that game could have been worse, Richmond missed a short field goal right before the half. This year, Richmond beat FBS Duke, W&M beat FBS Virginia and Villanova beat FBS Temple and they all will have played each other before playoff time. The CAA might be top heavy, but after watching the Griz play in the title game last year, I'd take Richmond, W&M, Villanova to beat them on a neutral field. I really don't think that's unreasonable. Saying that the bad teams in your league aren't THAT bad isn't a good argument when the best teams in the CAA all have to play each other multiple times. A one or two loss season in the CAA with an FBS win is much more impressive than running undefeated through the Big Sky.

No, they don't.

[SpidersSportsEditor]

No, they don't.

Well, Richmond plays Villanova and W&M
W&M plays Richmond, VIllanova and UNH
Villanova plays Richmond, W&M and UNH
UNH plays Villanova and W&M
W&M plays Richmond, Villanova and UNH

obviously I didn't mean they play more than one head-to-head game against each other, but the best play the best all year long, it's not like they plays 8 bad teams and one big game like the SoCon and Big Sky do. And JMU and Delaware also play the three CAA south teams on that list, and they would be near the top of many other conferences.

[srgrizizen]

C'mon guys. What's the point of hypothetical hyperbole (nice alliteration, huh?) Speculative claims about how the BSC teams would fare against other conferences (fellow Griz fan GrizNzonecrazy) are as unsupportable as the absurd claim that two losses in the CAA beats undefeated in the BSC. Sure, the CAA two loss team "might" beat the undefeated BSC team, but there is no basis other than pure bias for the assertion. I think Gannonfan makes the most sense in this forum, and I am beginning to figure out that he only feels compelled to take the Griz down a peg when UM fans get carried away, as all fans do, but perhaps none more often than ours. Let's just let the playoffs sort it out.

[GrizNzonecrazy]

But you are missing my point....

Griz - @UCD, Cal Poly, @NAU, WSU, EWU, @MSU - 6 tough games

Weber St - @Wyoming, @Colorado St, MSU, @EWU, @UM, NAU, Cal Poly 7 tough games

NAU - @Arizona, Southern Utah, UM, @MSU, @Ole Miss, @WSU, EWU - 7 tough games

EWU - @Cal, WSU, @UM, MSU, @Southern Utah, @NAU - 6 tough games

MSU - @Michigan St, @WSU, NAU, @EWU, UM - 5 tough games

and Sac St has really come on as the season has progressed but i didn't include them as a "tough" team....

Other FBS teams played by BSC - @UNLV, @Oregon St, @Kansas, @Arizona St, and @Oklahoma

Ok....and of these games I would say the only ones that are winnable are UNLV, CSU, and Wyoming.....The big sky went winless against FBS teams because we played top tier teams. Big sky also played 11 FBS teams this year.

Now for the Great West:

UC Davis - @Fresno St, UM, @Boise St, @ SUU, @Cal Poly

Cal Poly - @Ohio, @San Jose St, SDSU, @UM, SUU, @UCD, @WSU

SUU - @San Diego St, @NAU, @Utah St, Texas St, @Cal Poly, UCD, EWU

In The Big Sky there are 6 out of 9 teams that will likely finish at .500 or better (UM, WSU, MSU, NAU, EWU, and Sac St)

In the Great West ALL 5 teams are with range of finishing at .500 or better (North Dakota and UCD are 5-4 - SUU, Cal Poly, and South Dakota are all 4-5)

Now lets look at the CAA:

UNH - @Ball St, Villanova, @UMass, @William and Mary - 4 tough teams

UMass - @Kansas St, @Delaware, UNH, @Richmond, JMU? - 4 or 5 tough games

Richmond - @Duke, @Delaware, @JMU?, UMass, Villanova, W&M - 5 or 6 tough games

Villanova - @Temple, W&M, @UNH, @JMU?, @Richmond, Delaware - 5 or 6 tough games

William & Mary - @Virginia, Cent. Conn. St??????, Delaware, @Villanova, JMU?, UNH, @Richmond - 5 to 7 tough games

Delaware - Richmond, @W&M, UMass, @JMU?, @Navy, @Villanova - 5 or 6 tough games

Other FBS teams played by CAA - @Maryland, @Nothwestern, @Syracuse, @Western Michigan, @Boston College, @ UConn

You cant tell me your OOC schedule as a whole (Almost every one of the CAA non FBS OOC games was laughable at best) comes ANYWHERE near that of the teams out west. And the level of FBS competition played by the Big Sky is FAR FAR superior to that of the CAA. All FBS teams played by the BSC came from the PAC-10, Big 10, Big 12, SEC, and Mountain West

You also have Northeastern and URI at 1-8 and Towson at 2-7 out of 12 CAA teams

Big Sky and GWC together have Idaho St at 0-10, Portland St at 2-8, and Northern Colorado at 3-7 out of 14 total teams

I Take the west any day of the week top to bottom

[UNH Fanboi]

Sagarin rankings of the opponents you mentioned:

14. Arizona
25. California
38. Mississippi
41. Navy
51. Michigan St.
63. Kansas St.
65. Temple
66. Virginia
70. Duke
87. Ohio
95. San Diego St.
97. Colorado St.
105. Utah St.
107. Wyoming
121. San Jose St.
162. Ball St.

So NAU and EWU played some really tough FBS teams and UNH played a ****ty one, but overall the CAA's FBS opponents were not weak compared to the BSC and Great West's FBS opponents. In fact, the CAA played some stronger opponents compared to many of those teams and actually got some wins.

[Houndawg]

Well, Richmond plays Villanova and W&M
W&M plays Richmond, VIllanova and UNH
Villanova plays Richmond, W&M and UNH
UNH plays Villanova and W&M
W&M plays Richmond, Villanova and UNH

obviously I didn't mean they play more than one head-to-head game against each other, but the best play the best all year long, it's not like they plays 8 bad teams and one big game like the SoCon and Big Sky do. And JMU and Delaware also play the three CAA south teams on that list, and they would be near the top of many other conferences.


True, this year, maybe. But that's my main beef with conferences like the CAA and the Big 10: there are years where the two best teams in the league don't play each other.

I'd rather see the CAA become two separate conferences and give each an AQ. It would leave them both with opportunities for big OOC games.