CCSU and Albany

[crusader11]

With Central's loss to Wagner, and Albany's loss to Robert Morris, can we finally put to rest how these two teams are on par with the elite teams of the Patriot League this year? Can we, at long last, leave them out of any playoff discussions? Sorry ace, but your arguments you have been making, while good and valid ones, were shattered yesterday.

[UAalum72]

Why, did the Patriot League get a big out-of-conference win yesterday?

[WestCoastAggie]

We have to. We also have to question FAMU as well although their starting QB was injured in their game against A&T.

[Franks Tanks]

Why, did the Patriot League get a big out-of-conference win yesterday?

You should know everyone is in league play right now. Maybe we can hear more about how good RMU and Wagner is (RMU lost to PL doormat Bucknell) and why CCSU and Albany are better than Lafayette and Holy Cross.

[WrenFGun]

Boy, I think it was that convincing 4 point win you had over Lehigh that separated you.

[crusader11]

Boy, I think it was that convincing 4 point win you had over Lehigh that separated you.

And that drubbing of URI was pretty impressive yesterday too.

A win is a win.

[TexasTerror]

Whether it UC-Davis, San Diego or one of the NEC schools - there's always a playoff hope ending loss that makes us all rest at ease. ;)

[WrenFGun]

And that drubbing of URI was pretty impressive yesterday too.

A win is a win.

Right, because it's clear the CAA needs to prove itself as a multiple bid conference...xeyebrowx

[crusader11]

Right, because it's clear the CAA needs to prove itself as a multiple bid conference...xeyebrowx

Not exactly sure where you're going with this. You attacked HC's victory over Lehigh yesterday, and I merely retorted by commenting on UNH's less than impressive victory of lowly URI.

[joecooll6]

I understand where he's going with it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I understand where he's going with it.

I understand where he's going, too. The CAA soon will increase to twenty-four members with four sub-conferences containing six schools each. All four sub-conferences will be granted an automatic qualifier. The CAA traditionally sees three member institutions receive at-large bids to the tournament in addition to the automatic qualifier. Therefore, under this arrangement, each of the sixteen available playoff spots in the tournament will be awarded to CAA State University I through XVI.

This will work out well for the CAA and its fans, because they will be able to play with themselves, exclusively.

[Franks Tanks]

I understand where he's going with it.

Well gee thanks for clearing it up Einstein.

[aceinthehole]

With Central's loss to Wagner, and Albany's loss to Robert Morris, can we finally put to rest how these two teams are on par with the elite teams of the Patriot League this year? Can we, at long last, leave them out of any playoff discussions? Sorry ace, but your arguments you have been making, while good and valid ones, were shattered yesterday.

Please, you are such a joke! Please the PL is OVERRATED. xcoffeex

Has Colgate proved that should have never been ranked this year beacsue of their loss???

Does anyone from the CAA or other pwer conferences really think the PL is signifigantly better than the NEC?

How did Lehigh "show it can play" against HC, but not against CCSU???

Here's something from one of your own:

Lehigh played very well...defensively especially. HC is good but somewhat flawed, the defense is a bit banged up and truth be told, not that good to begin with. In many ways our 8-1 record is a result of a pretty weak schedule in all honesty.

Funny thing is most PL fans, try to justify that they are somehow better than the NEC when the overwhelming evidence does not support that fact. The NEC guys (and most outside observers) seem to feel the NEC and PL are nearly even, yet you guys won't accept that fact. I'd say you have more of an inferiority problem and worry about your status as Ivy Lite. :)

[Tribe4SF]

I understand where he's going, too. The CAA soon will increase to twenty-four members with four sub-conferences containing six schools each. All four sub-conferences will be granted an automatic qualifier. The CAA traditionally sees three member institutions receive at-large bids to the tournament in addition to the automatic qualifier. Therefore, under this arrangement, each of the sixteen available playoff spots in the tournament will be awarded to CAA State University I through XVI.

This will work out well for the CAA and its fans, because they will be able to play with themselves, exclusively.

xlolx Richmond, Villanova and Northeastern will not be happy to hear this.

[Go...gate]

Please, you are such a joke! Please the PL is OVERRATED. xcoffeex

Has Colgate proved that should have never been ranked this year beacsue of their loss???

Does anyone from the CAA or other pwer conferences really think the PL is signifigantly better than the NEC?

How did Lehigh "show it can play" against HC, but not against CCSU???

Here's something from one of your own:


Funny thing is most PL fans, try to justify that they are somehow better than the NEC when the overwhelming evidence does not support that fact. The NEC guys (and most outside observers) seem to feel the NEC and PL are nearly even, yet you guys won't accept that fact. I'd say you have more of an inferiority problem and worry about your status as Ivy Lite. :)

Frankly, no.

[WrenFGun]

Actually, where I'm going is suggesting that the Patriot still has not done anything to make it any different from the NEC. I think that's very obvious.

Noting a 13 point win by UNH has absolutely nothing to do with the Patriot League or the NEC.

I mentioned Lehigh because it's not exactly as if HC proved much today, either.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xlolx Richmond, Villanova and Northeastern will not be happy to hear this.

All in jest and good humor, Tribe. Those schools belong in the PL anyhow.

[Franks Tanks]

Please, you are such a joke! Please the PL is OVERRATED. xcoffeex

Has Colgate proved that should have never been ranked this year beacsue of their loss???

Does anyone from the CAA or other pwer conferences really think the PL is signifigantly better than the NEC?

How did Lehigh "show it can play" against HC, but not against CCSU???

Here's something from one of your own:


Funny thing is most PL fans, try to justify that they are somehow better than the NEC when the overwhelming evidence does not support that fact. The NEC guys (and most outside observers) seem to feel the NEC and PL are nearly even, yet you guys won't accept that fact. I'd say you have more of an inferiority problem and worry about your status as Ivy Lite. :)

What has the NEC done to prove it is better than the PL????

I would love to see Albany and CCSU take on Harvard or Penn when you cant beat RMU of Wagner.

Please tell me what CCSU or Albany has done this year to warrant they can hang with Holy Cross or Lafayette?

[blukeys]

All in jest and good humor, Tribe. Those schools belong in the PL anyhow.

Why would they want to take the drop down in status??????xeyebrowx

[Gater]

The Patriot League needs to go back to scheduling tougher opponents. Holy Cross, Lafayette and Colgate have all had good to great years but none of these schools had a "reach" game this year. Colgate had the weakest out of conference schedule I have ever seen. The NEC is on the rise and the Patriot League (with the exception of Fordham) is in danger of being left in the dust. How did Albany's schedule get so much tougher than any of the Patriot League schools? Colgate used to have a rivalry with William and Mary. More recently, Colgate used to give UMASS fits. Now, we point to Monmouth as a quality win. The crazy thing is we have an AQ. We could play and lose those games and still make it to the playoffs. Wouldn't it be great if both Holy Cross and Lafayette were going into this game with one lose having played UMASS and Richmond or UNH and Army? Teams from the NEC can question the records of Patriot League teams as long as we keep playing who we do. Ace certainly drives me crazy with his posts. Part of it is because he hammers the same points over and over and is biased towards his league. But the real reason he bugs me is that he is right and it's the Patriot League's fault for letting this happen. Colgate could finish 9-2 and not even be considered for the playoffs. How is that possible? 9-2 is a great season. One of the best in school history but, because of who we schedule, it will probably keep us out of the playoffs. The kids who play for Patriot League teams deserve better than this. They deserve the opportunity to play in front of 20,000 people in Delaware or 40,000 at Army. They deserve to rise to the occasion during the regular season and knock off a team they have no business beating. Until we schedule those games, we'll get into (and lose) petty arguments with the NEC instead of getting into (and maybe even winning) petty arguments with the CAA or the Big Sky or the Southern.

[Sader87]

Please, you are such a joke! Please the PL is OVERRATED. xcoffeex

Has Colgate proved that should have never been ranked this year beacsue of their loss???

Does anyone from the CAA or other pwer conferences really think the PL is signifigantly better than the NEC?

How did Lehigh "show it can play" against HC, but not against CCSU???

Here's something from one of your own:


Funny thing is most PL fans, try to justify that they are somehow better than the NEC when the overwhelming evidence does not support that fact. The NEC guys (and most outside observers) seem to feel the NEC and PL are nearly even, yet you guys won't accept that fact. I'd say you have more of an inferiority problem and worry about your status as Ivy Lite. :)

I promised myself I wouldn't get into this fracas (also promised I'd quit drinking years ago) but what particularly galled me with this year's HC schedule was the return of NEC opponent Sacred Heart (after Yale pulled out). I had thought we had stopped playing/scheduling the Sacred Heart's of the world.

The other "weak sisters" on our schedule are more or less due to those programs either being down this year (Dartmouth, Northeastern) or down forever (Georgetown).

The Patriot League has been down...of that, I don't disagree...let's only hope that the PL brings back (or I should say HC brings back) scholarships and once again returns to the upper echelon of FCS football.

[bulldog10jw]

I promised myself I wouldn't get into this fracas (also promised I'd quit drinking years ago) but what particularly galled me with this year's HC schedule was the return of NEC opponent Sacred Heart (after Yale pulled out). I had thought we had stopped playing/scheduling the Sacred Heart's of the world.

The other "weak sisters" on our schedule are more or less due to those programs either being down this year (Dartmouth, Northeastern) or down forever (Georgetown).

The Patriot League has been down...of that, I don't disagree...let's only hope that the PL brings back (or I should say HC brings back) scholarships and once again returns to the upper echelon of FCS football.

xconfusedx

[Go...gate]

The Patriot League needs to go back to scheduling tougher opponents. Holy Cross, Lafayette and Colgate have all had good to great years but none of these schools had a "reach" game this year. Colgate had the weakest out of conference schedule I have ever seen. The NEC is on the rise and the Patriot League (with the exception of Fordham) is in danger of being left in the dust. How did Albany's schedule get so much tougher than any of the Patriot League schools? Colgate used to have a rivalry with William and Mary. More recently, Colgate used to give UMASS fits. Now, we point to Monmouth as a quality win. The crazy thing is we have an AQ. We could play and lose those games and still make it to the playoffs. Wouldn't it be great if both Holy Cross and Lafayette were going into this game with one lose having played UMASS and Richmond or UNH and Army? Teams from the NEC can question the records of Patriot League teams as long as we keep playing who we do. Ace certainly drives me crazy with his posts. Part of it is because he hammers the same points over and over and is biased towards his league. But the real reason he bugs me is that he is right and it's the Patriot League's fault for letting this happen. Colgate could finish 9-2 and not even be considered for the playoffs. How is that possible? 9-2 is a great season. One of the best in school history but, because of who we schedule, it will probably keep us out of the playoffs. The kids who play for Patriot League teams deserve better than this. They deserve the opportunity to play in front of 20,000 people in Delaware or 40,000 at Army. They deserve to rise to the occasion during the regular season and knock off a team they have no business beating. Until we schedule those games, we'll get into (and lose) petty arguments with the NEC instead of getting into (and maybe even winning) petty arguments with the CAA or the Big Sky or the Southern.

A great post, Gater, and I'll go you one further. IMO, when the opposition is considered in and out of conference, Colgate arguably played the weakest football schedule in its history. It all falls at Dave Roach's desk and it has to stop.

[Go...gate]

Why would they want to take the drop down in status??????xeyebrowx

I believe a scholarship PL might not be such a drop in status. If you can get a full ride to one of our schools (which arguably are pretty good academically) and we play good football (or any other sport), that makes the schools and conference that much more attractive for a football recruit.

[Sader87]

A great post, Gater, and I'll go you one further. IMO, when the opposition is considered in and out of conference, Colgate arguably played the weakest football schedule in its history. It all falls at Dave Roach's desk and it has to stop.

If you want to really throw up in your mouth, compare Colgate's 1987 schedule to this year's.



http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/colgate/yearly_results.php?year=1985


As for Yale dropping HC this year....nearly 100% certain that's true.... had something to do with Yale and HC not being able to agree on a multi-year contract.

[Dane96]

What has the NEC done to prove it is better than the PL????

I would love to see Albany and CCSU take on Harvard or Penn when you cant beat RMU of Wagner.

Please tell me what CCSU or Albany has done this year to warrant they can hang with Holy Cross or Lafayette?

You take a nap the past few years?

[bulldog10jw]

If you want to really throw up in your mouth, compare Colgate's 1987 schedule to this year's.



http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/colgate/yearly_results.php?year=1985


As for Yale dropping HC this year....nearly 100% certain that's true.... had something to do with Yale and HC not being able to agree on a multi-year contract.

Maybe, but I don't remember HC being on Yale's future schedule for 2009 at any time, and those schedules are published years in advance.

[Gil Dobie]

We like Wagner on our schedule at NDSU xoopsx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Why would they want to take the drop down in status??????xeyebrowx

I could explain, but I'm not sure you would understand.

[nwFL Griz]

With Central's loss to Wagner, and Albany's loss to Robert Morris, can we finally put to rest how these two teams are on par with the elite teams of the Patriot Leaguethis year? Can we, at long last, leave them out of any playoff discussions? Sorry ace, but your arguments you have been making, while good and valid ones, were shattered yesterday.

Elite and Patriot League are two words that do not belong in the same sentence.

Personally, based on the past few years (~5) that I have been interested in all of FCS (as opposed to just the Sky), I think that both Albany and CCSU would fare very well in the PL, probably would have been in the running for two out of the last three PL titles.

[crusader11]

Elite and Patriot League are two words that do not belong in the same sentence.

Not talking of elite with regard to teams throughout the country, but elite among the rest of the Patriot League. It is clear that Lafayette and Holy Cross are the "elite" teams this year in the PL.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Elite and Patriot League are two words that do not belong in the same sentence.

Personally, based on the past few years (~5) that I have been interested in all of FCS (as opposed to just the Sky), I think that both Albany and CCSU would fare very well in the PL, probably would have been in the running for two out of the last three PL titles.

xcoffeex

[Gater]

Colgate's Schedule in 1987

1987: 7-4-0
Coach: Frederick H. Dunlap
W/L Date PF Opponent PA Location Notes
L 09-05-1987 6 Duke (NC) 41 Durham, NC
W 09-12-1987 31 Bucknell (PA) 28 Hamilton, NY
W 09-19-1987 19 William & Mary (VA) 7 Hamilton, NY
W 09-26-1987 27 Cornell (NY) 3 Ithaca, NY
L 10-03-1987 7 Holy Cross (MA) 49 Worcester, MA
L 10-10-1987 6 Lehigh (PA) 7 Hamilton, NY
W 10-17-1987 22 Army (NY) 20 West Point, NY
L 10-24-1987 6 Syracuse (NY) 52 Syracuse, NY
W 10-31-1987 35 Lafayette (PA) 14 Easton, PA
W 11-07-1987 39 Princeton (NJ) 15 Princeton, NJ
W 11-14-1987 38 Boston (MA) 0 Hamilton, NY

Syracuse went undefeated in '87. The second best team Colgate played was a Holy Cross squad that outscored opponents 511 to 110. Cross' low light was beating Army by 10. No other team got within 29 points of the Crusaders that year. Obviously, this is a long time ago but Holy Cross beat UMASS, William and Mary and Villanova by a combined 110 points.

It's impossible to say how much bringing back scholarships would help Holy Cross; you might not get 20,000 for home games like you used to and you probably wouldn't have a player finish 3rd in the Heisman like you did in '87 but you could probably give B.C. a scare every couple of years and boy wouldn't that be fun.

[Sader87]

That '87 HC-Army game wasn't that close...final score is deceiving. We were up 27-3 at the half and 34-10 late in the 4th. Army was pretty solid that year too. That was easily the best HC team since we went 1-AA.

[aceinthehole]

Ace certainly drives me crazy with his posts. Part of it is because he hammers the same points over and over and is biased towards his league. But the real reason he bugs me is that he is right and it's the Patriot League's fault for letting this happen. Colgate could finish 9-2 and not even be considered for the playoffs.

Gater - I appreciate the comments, I really do!

Many PL posters have made valid points and I agree with their frustration in the decline of the PL. Colgate fans for the most part have been gracious toward the NEC, and have generally accepted the fact that the NEC has improved by leaps and bounds over the years. Maybe their record vs the NEC is the proof they needed, but they've been classy and I never try to take shots at them.

Others PL fans make me laugh. I have it as a fact that HC refused to play CCSU in Worcster on multiple occasions. Listen, I'm not here to pick fights with PL fans, but when certain posters continue to take pot shots, after the PL continues to lose games head-to-head to the NEC on a REGULAR basis, they lose credibility on this board.

I've never said the NEC is better than the PL - I have said we are equals. I have said that the top-3 of the NEC could win the PL in any given year, and I stand by that point.

More importantly, its not just homers like me who think the PL is down and is about even with the NEC.
---

The Patriot League has been down...of that, I don't disagree...

IMO, when the opposition is considered in and out of conference, Colgate arguably played the weakest football schedule in its history.

Personally, based on the past few years (~5) that I have been interested in all of FCS (as opposed to just the Sky), I think that both Albany and CCSU would fare very well in the PL, probably would have been in the running for two out of the last three PL titles.

[Franks Tanks]

You take a nap the past few years?

What kind of response is that? I ask again what has a NEC team done this year to show they are better than Lafayette and Holy Cross?

[Franks Tanks]

Gater - I appreciate the comments, I really do!

Many PL posters have made valid points and I agree with their frustration in the decline of the PL. Colgate fans for the most part have been gracious toward the NEC, and have generally accepted the fact that the NEC has improved by leaps and bounds over the years. Maybe their record vs the NEC is the proof they needed, but they've been classy and I never try to take shots at them.

Others PL fans make me laugh. I have it as a fact that HC refused to play CCSU in Worcster on multiple occasions. Listen, I'm not here to pick fights with PL fans, but when certain posters continue to take pot shots, after the PL continues to lose games head-to-head to the NEC on a REGULAR basis, they lose credibility on this board.

I've never said the NEC is better than the PL - I have said we are equals. I have said that the top-3 of the NEC could win the PL in any given year, and I stand by that point.

More importantly, its not just homers like me who think the PL is down and is about even with the NEC.
---

Albany or CCSU would not win the PL this year...no way those teams lose to RMU or Wagner.

[Sader87]

Ace...I understand your frustration. I think why HC posters in particular have been hostile (I really don't know the whole story....I've only been posting here for a few weeks) towards you and the NEC in general is that many HC fans are extremely frustrated with the direction the program's taken the last 15-20 years. From a program that played (and sometimes beat) 1-A schools, won Lambert Cups etc. etc. to be considered on a par with some of the schools in the NEC is very disheartening.

I don't disagree that CCSU is probably comprable to HC in football but many (hard-core HC fans...the ones who would post here etc.) don't want to hear it and hold onto the belief that we could still give BC a game if they were on the schedule this year.

CCSU and HC do play on the hardwood btw this year...at Mohegan Sun in a few weeks.

[crusader11]

Ace, you honestly think that Albany or CCSU could win the Patriot League this year?

[Franks Tanks]

Ace...I understand your frustration. I think why HC posters in particular have been hostile (I really don't know the whole story....I've only been posting here for a few weeks) towards you and the NEC in general is that many HC fans are extremely frustrated with the direction the program's taken the last 15-20 years. From a program that played (and sometimes beat) 1-A schools, won Lambert Cups etc. etc. to be considered on a par with some of the schools in the NEC is very disheartening.

I don't disagree that CCSU is probably comprable to HC in football but many (hard-core HC fans...the ones who would post here etc.) don't want to hear it and hold onto the belief that we could still give BC a game if they were on the schedule this year.

CCSU and HC do play on the hardwood btw this year...at Mohegan Sun in a few weeks.

Sader...some NEC fans have asserted that the NEC has clearly and easily passed the PL. This is not the truth......but I do agree with your assesment above.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I have it as a fact that HC refused to play CCSU in Worcster on multiple occasions.


Ace - please explain how it helps Holy Cross, as an institution, to schedule a home game with Central Connecticut State University. Holy Cross certainly has no shortage of potential opponents and scheduling opportunities. I am sure it declines quite a few invitations from peer institutions for games. This does not mean that HC "refuses" to play these schools. It simply means that HC chooses to schedule its traditional and historical rivals.

If you can explain to me why Holy Cross should forgo games against Yale, Dartmouth and Harvard, which draw alumni and student interest, in favor of Central Connecticut, I'd like to hear it.

[Dane96]

Fact...HOLY CROSS has been dodging certain NEC schools. I know...for an ultimate fact...they have dodged Albany for three years now.

Not many coaches dodge Bob Ford...out of respect, if anything.

Holy Cross should take a scheduling note from some NEC schools.

And to answer your question that you pose: YOU TAKE THE GAMES SO THE REST OF THE FCS GIVES YOU RESPECT FOR PLAYING GAMES OUTSIDE YOUR COMFORT ZONE. If Albany can get Cincinnatti and Central Ct. can get Western Michigan-- not to mention the Ga. Southern's, Montana's, UNH's, Delaware's, Maine's, Hofstra's, hell...even the Colgate's of the world to play them, than surely you dont think Holy Cross can get them?

Now I will say this: from the get I thought Albany was down prior to the start of the season...but had they gone 10-1 and maybe 9-2...the schedule would have the committee putting them in and very strongly considering them respectively.

I simply do not buy the argument that playing the Ivy's every year makes you a playoff contender.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fact...HOLY CROSS has been dodging certain NEC schools.

Holy Cross should take a scheduling note from some NEC schools.

I simply do not buy the argument that playing the Ivy's every year makes you a playoff contender.

Dane - I do not speak for Holy Cross, but they've been playing football for a long time. Have you considered that the institution's priorities might not include beating Albany or Central Connecticut? Holy Cross is a playoff contender every year - it need only win the Patriot League title and it is in the playoffs. Is it possible that HC's football priorities simply are not as you suppose them to be?

Albany and Central Connecticut seem to be obsessed with the PL, but that doesn't mean that the converse necessarily must be true. Why not let Holy Cross choose its own opponents, and Albany can elevate its stature by "playing up" against other colleges and increase its visibility. If the PL is as poor as you suggest, why on earth would Albany want to schedule a game against a PL institution in any event?

[crusader11]

If the PL is as poor as you suggest, why on earth would you want to schedule a game against a PL institution in any event?

Because they yearn to be associated with Patriot League schools, rather than the likes of Wagner, RMU, Duquesne, etc.

Many of the PL schools have proud football traditions; I don't think the same can be said for the preceding schools.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dane - Holy Cross' OOC schedule for the next few years is set: It plays Brown, Harvard, Dartmouth, Northeastern and the University of Massachusetts. All are traditional HC opponents. Which of these schools should Holy Cross give up to play an NEC member (such as Albany or Central Connecticut State) instead? How will it help HC to do so?

[crusader11]

I wouldn't object trading Dartmouth for a good NEC school. But, again, what does this really do for us? I'd rather drop Dartmouth and pick up another CAA school or a school from the SoCon like Furman or Wofford.

[Sader87]

Not me...Dartmouth has been a rival (games played) only short of Colgate on our current schedule.

[Dane96]

Dane - I do not speak for Holy Cross, but they've been playing football for a long time. Have you considered that the institution's priorities might not include beating Albany or Central Connecticut? Holy Cross is a playoff contender every year - it need only win the Patriot League title and it is in the playoffs. Is it possible that HC's football priorities simply are not as you suppose them to be?

Albany and Central Connecticut seem to be obsessed with the PL, but that doesn't mean that the converse necessarily must be true. Why not let Holy Cross choose its own opponents, and Albany can elevate its stature by "playing up" against other colleges and increase its visibility. If the PL is as poor as you suggest, why on earth would Albany want to schedule a game against a PL institution in any event?

We are not obsessed with them. I see your 249 posts are historically over a multi-year period on this board to speak to that fact? Do your research.

It seems Holy Cross' priorties arent even that of Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh, etc...or you would be sitting on scholarship football right now.

And fact, I never said the PL is poor- that is you putting words in my mouth. I did say that they are no better than many of the NEC...and it is the same opinion shared by many on this board not even affiliated with the NEC or PL, not to mention members of PL schools who have been saying the same.

[Dane96]

Because they yearn to be associated with Patriot League schools, rather than the likes of Wagner, RMU, Duquesne, etc.

Many of the PL schools have proud football traditions; I don't think the same can be said for the preceding schools.

You've been stating nonsense for weeks. First off, I am very familiar with the Holy Cross tradition thank you very much (and that of the other PL schools).

Second, I would say in a short time, UA has a very solid football tradition. Since bringing it back on campus 30-something years ago, the Danes have not only built tradition on the field, but in the coaching ranks; Bob Ford is pretty legendary at any level.

[Dane96]

Dane - Holy Cross' OOC schedule for the next few years is set: It plays Brown, Harvard, Dartmouth, Northeastern and the University of Massachusetts. All are traditional HC opponents. Which of these schools should Holy Cross give up to play an NEC member (such as Albany or Central Connecticut State) instead? How will it help HC to do so?

Fact is, scheduling is done YEARS in advance.

Second fact-- lots of traditions are broken for certain things; if you want an at-large bid these days, you have to play and win a monster schedule. Other than that, you at the mercy of the schedulers.

So, if the goal of certain schools is to only play rivalry games...because it has been done for years...dont cry a river when people question the strength of a team. It's called balanced scheduling. Coastal definitively paved the way years ago, and other have followed suit. As many who are internally frustrated (PL fans) with the PL direction will tell you, it is time for the PL to start stepping it up.

Here is the bottom line: A 40 scholarship NEC team who goes 10-1 or 9-2 and plays 4 up games and goes at least 2-2 or 3-1 in those games is going to get a longer look in the NEW SET-UP FOR THE PLAYOFFS based on scheduling. Seems like Colgate doesnt have an issue with scheduling 2 true up-games a year (those outside of the IVY or NEC). Why should Holy Cross? Certain PL schools have their hat set on being IVY Lite. That's great...but it brings up a valid competition argument. xrulesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dane - I can see that you haven't a clue about how the Patriot League works, particularly about the fundaments of its approach to football scholarships and its employment of the academic index. But that's OK - I know nothing of Albany (other than being a native of nearby Schenectady). And I readily concede that I have far fewer posts than you; I consider that a good thing.

But try to respond to my quaere: How does it help Holy Cross, as an institution, to change its scheduling priorities as you suggest? You are justifiably proud of your school and its accomplishments. Perhaps you might consider allowing Holy Cross (and the rest of the PL) be proud of theirs in their own way. The members of the Patriot League practically invented college football as we know it. They've been playing the sport continuously for more than one hundred twenty years. I assure you they know what they're doing.

[Sader87]

Dane...firstly, HC's football schedule isn't comprised/made simply to make the FCS play-offs.

I wish we would play the Villanova's, the William&Mary's, Delaware's etc like we have in the past but the the "powers that be" on Mt St James see it differently.

We really don't have a lot of "wiggle room" schedule-wise these days...6 PL games, 3 or 4 Ivies and 1or 2 "others"...usually comprised of the UMass' and Northeastern's of the world.

I highly doubt HC is "ducking" Albany or CCSU...it's really more of a case that there are only so many Saturdays.

[Dane96]

Dane - I can see that you haven't a clue about how the Patriot League works, particularly about the fundaments of its approach to football scholarships and its employment of the academic index. But that's OK - I know nothing of Albany (other than being a native of nearby Schenectady). And I readily concede that I have far fewer posts than you; I consider that a good thing.

But try to respond to my quaere: How does it help Holy Cross, as an institution, to change its scheduling priorities as you suggest? You are justifiably proud of your school and its accomplishments. Perhaps you might consider allowing Holy Cross (and the rest of the PL) be proud of theirs in their own way. The members of the Patriot League practically invented college football as we know it. They've been playing the sport continuously for more than one hundred twenty years. I assure you they know what they're doing.

I sent you a message so I dont have to drag out here-- read it.

[crusader11]

I'd rather "duck" Albany if it meant playing UMASS or Harvard.

Another major point you are forgetting is that a school like Albany does not have many "traditional" rivals in football as Holy Cross does. There is no allegiance in playing a team year in and year out. This gives Albany the ability to play Georgia Southern, Montana, etc. I would be devastated, as would many alums, if we dropped Harvard from the schedule in favor of "scheduling up" to make the playoffs.

But, I am with you. I'd love to cut back on playing 4 Ivies every year, and get another team from the CAA on the schedule.

[Dane96]

Dane...firstly, HC's football schedule isn't comprised/made simply to make the FCS play-offs.

I wish we would play the Villanova's, the William&Mary's, Delaware's etc like we have in the past but the the "powers that be" on Mt St James see it differently.

We really don't have a lot of "wiggle room" schedule-wise these days...6 PL games, 3 or 4 Ivies and 1or 2 "others"...usually comprised of the UMass' and Northeastern's of the world.

I highly doubt HC is "ducking" Albany or CCSU...it's really more of a case that there are only so many Saturdays.

Three things:

one, I think you actually understand what many are talking about and you seem frustrated at times with the PL. I can respect that because Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth all want 57-63 rides and are being held back by certain schools in the NEC. It gets frustrating.

Two, why would Holy Cross or others not want to "schedule for the playoffs." That is the passive-agressive version of the IVY's "we dont need/want the playoffs."

Three, I know for a fact they ducked Albany from multiple sources...and they are airtight! Again, if Colgate could do it...so can Holy Cross.

[Bogus Megapardus]

firstly, HC's football schedule isn't comprised/made simply to make the FCS play-offs.

Glad you said it . . . . and it's the truth. Same goes for the rest of the league.

Dane - ask yourself, why do colleges have football teams?

[Dane96]

I'd rather "duck" Albany if it meant playing UMASS or Harvard.

Another major point you are forgetting is that a school like Albany does not have many "traditional" rivals in football as Holy Cross does. There is no allegiance in playing a team year in and year out. This gives Albany the ability to play Georgia Southern, Montana, etc. I would be devastated, as would many alums, if we dropped Harvard from the schedule in favor of "scheduling up" to make the playoffs.

But, I am with you. I'd love to cut back on playing 4 Ivies every year, and get another team from the CAA on the schedule.

UMass yes...and I would give you Harvard when they are good (they have been down IMHO). Any other parallel school...no.

You would be less devestated to miss the playoffs than you would to play Harvard every year? Really? How does that help the school? That said, no one is advocating playing Albany only; I am saying play a better schedule...and the CAA would be a good starting pt.

[crusader11]

UMass yes...and I would give you Harvard when they are good (they have been down IMHO). Any other parallel school...no.

You would be less devestated to miss the playoffs than you would to play Harvard every year? Really? How does that help the school? That said, no one is advocating playing Albany only; I am saying play a better schedule...and the CAA would be a good starting pt.

Harvard is at the top of the Ivy League almost every year (or at least as of late), and usually ends the season ranked in the top 25. A win over Harvard is virtually always seen as a good win.

[WrenFGun]

Harvard is at the top of the Ivy League almost every year (or at least as of late), and usually ends the season ranked in the top 25. A win over Harvard is virtually always seen as a good win.

There is nothing (nor has there ever been) anything to that top 25 ranking. Harvard never beats anyone to justify the ranking.

Albany has wins over Maine, Delaware and another CAA school (Hofstra?) in the last 3-4 seasons, and has dominated the NEC in that timespan. Albany is clearly, IMO, the better win.

[Franks Tanks]

There is nothing (nor has there ever been) anything to that top 25 ranking. Harvard never beats anyone to justify the ranking.

Albany has wins over Maine, Delaware and another CAA school (Hofstra?) in the last 3-4 seasons, and has dominated the NEC in that timespan. Albany is clearly, IMO, the better win.

Your opinion is wrong. Harvard would compete against those team very well, just as Penn took Nova to the limit this year and the past several years.

Comparisons are few but in 2004 Harvard beat Northeastern 41-14. UNH beat that Northeastern team 27-24, and you were A-10 champs that year. Harvard destyed a common opponent that you barely beat. In 2005 Lafayette beat A-10 co-champs Richmond, but Harvard beat us.

Harvard would do just as well againt Maine, Hofstra etc., they just dont get the chance.

Dont let the facts get in the way of your bias.

[aceinthehole]

Ace...I understand your frustration. I think why HC posters in particular have been hostile (I really don't know the whole story....I've only been posting here for a few weeks) towards you and the NEC in general is that many HC fans are extremely frustrated with the direction the program's taken the last 15-20 years. From a program that played (and sometimes beat) 1-A schools, won Lambert Cups etc. etc. to be considered on a par with some of the schools in the NEC is very disheartening.

I don't disagree that CCSU is probably comprable to HC in football but many (hard-core HC fans...the ones who would post here etc.) don't want to hear it and hold onto the belief that we could still give BC a game if they were on the schedule this year.

CCSU and HC do play on the hardwood btw this year...at Mohegan Sun in a few weeks.

Thanks, that's a reasonable response and I fully understand the frustration.

PL programs have a lot of history and pride - I respect that - as history. Today, and for the last few years, the entire PL (even the top tier teams) has dropped off dramatically and is about even with the NEC. Teams like CCSU, ALbany, and Monmouth have already proven that can compete with any team from the PL. Now some PL fans may not want to hear that, but everyone on this board knows its the tuth.

---

The Basketball game was going to be great, but our star player (Ken Horton) is out for the season with a hip injury. I was looking forward to the matchup your you star player from Norwich. Good luck!

[Bogus Megapardus]

So it's settled: to improve their respective team's lustre and national prominence, Patriot League Athletic Directors - when given the opportunity to do so - should choose to schedule Albany rather than Harvard (a centennium of tradition notwithstanding). I wonder why more of them don't do that?

[aceinthehole]

Ace - please explain how it helps Holy Cross, as an institution, to schedule a home game with Central Connecticut State University. Holy Cross certainly has no shortage of potential opponents and scheduling opportunities. I am sure it declines quite a few invitations from peer institutions for games. This does not mean that HC "refuses" to play these schools. It simply means that HC chooses to schedule its traditional and historical rivals.

If you can explain to me why Holy Cross should forgo games against Yale, Dartmouth and Harvard, which draw alumni and student interest, in favor of Central Connecticut, I'd like to hear it.

1) Its HC decsion who they play - they do what's best for their program.

2) CCSU attempts to play top regional teams and HC ceratinly fits that bill.

3) HC can play Dartmouth and Yale for decades, but when you schedule is called "weak" you have to look at the teams you choose to play.

4) CCSU is a program that has proven itself as a worthy and stong team (unlike Sacred Heart or Dartmouth), a win by HC would certainly help your standing in the rankings.

5) So the point is you don't have to play CCSU or anyone you don't want to. But if you choose the route of Ivy Lite, when you have the chance at a HOME game vs a stronger opponent, you just have to wonder .....

[Franks Tanks]

1) Its HC decsion who they play - they do what's best for their program.

2) CCSU attempts to play top regional teams and HC ceratinly fits that bill.

3) HC can play Dartmouth and Yale for decades, but when you schedule is called "weak" you have to look at the teams you choose to play.

4) CCSU is a program that has proven itself as a worthy and stong team (unlike Sacred Heart or Dartmouth), a win by HC would certainly help your standing in the rankings.

5) So the point is you don't have to play CCSU or anyone you don't want to. But if you choose the route of Ivy Lite, when you have the chance at a HOME game vs a stronger opponent, you just have to wonder .....

But then you lost to Wagner so even if The Cross played and beat you they would be mocked and people would say it wasnt a quality win.

[aceinthehole]

I'd rather "duck" Albany if it meant playing UMASS or Harvard.

Another major point you are forgetting is that a school like Albany does not have many "traditional" rivals in football as Holy Cross does. There is no allegiance in playing a team year in and year out. This gives Albany the ability to play Georgia Southern, Montana, etc. I would be devastated, as would many alums, if we dropped Harvard from the schedule in favor of "scheduling up" to make the playoffs.

But, I am with you. I'd love to cut back on playing 4 Ivies every year, and get another team from the CAA on the schedule.


You are ducking Albany/CCSU for teams like Dartmouth, Brown, Marist, and Sacred Heart - that the point!

[Dane96]

Harvard is at the top of the Ivy League almost every year (or at least as of late), and usually ends the season ranked in the top 25. A win over Harvard is virtually always seen as a good win.

I see about 2 Harvard games a year live...and 2-3 more on the tube depending on the TV schedule that year.

Harvard is pre-inflated as a Top 25 and it is hard to move once the season starts. Are they good- yeah. Dominant- no.

They were very good during the Fitzpatrick years.

[Franks Tanks]

You are ducking Albany/CCSU for teams like Dartmouth, Brown, Marist, and Sacred Heart - that the point!

Who did Albany play the first game of the season? I believe it was Georgia Southern.. I am sure they wanted that game over Holy Cross (when they played Sacred Heart). It is possible Holy Cross decided to play Sacred Heart over CCSU, as CCSU ended up at Lehigh that day, but that is all conjecture. Holy Cross could have booked Sacred Heart before they knew CCSU was available.. I dont know and I doubt you do as well.

[Franks Tanks]

I see about 2 Harvard games a year live...and 2-3 more on the tube depending on the TV schedule that year.

Harvard is pre-inflated as a Top 25 and it is hard to move once the season starts. Are they good- yeah. Dominant- no.

They were very good during the Fitzpatrick years.

I can guarantee they wouldnt lose to Robert Morris.

[Dane96]

So it's settled: to improve their respective team's lustre and national prominence, Patriot League Athletic Directors - when given the opportunity to do so - should choose to schedule Albany rather than Harvard (a centennium of tradition notwithstanding). I wonder why more of them don't do that?

You are misunderstanding, yet again-- to be considered for an at-large playoff birth, the PL schools need to start playing PLAYOFF conferences on a regular basis.

This entire argument is about the strength of a league vs. another; thus, it is relative to compare OOC scheduling and wins in an effort to get a bigger picture view of a leagues strength.

The only thing people are advocating is that it is hard to gauge the strength of the PL when they only choose to play traditional games. Personally, I think the NEC and PL are pretty much dead-even.

And as to your question- if you think spending 3-4 million a year is just to give kids an opportunity to have some exercise, then you are crazy. FCS schools have football programs to make the playoffs and win titles...unless of course you are the IVY League.

[aceinthehole]

Frank and Bougus - Can't you see that no other PL fans agree with your logic! The PL is way down and the NEC is up.

Just because of one loss vs Wagner or RMU, you are trying to igonre 5 years of NEC achivement. Every team has a bad game and is upset. I'm not crying in my soup, like you guys are.

How about HC's loss to Yale (6-4) last year?
Or Lafayette's loss Princeton (4-6) in 2007?
Despite their Ivy affilation, those were not strong team.

[aceinthehole]

I can guarantee they wouldnt lose to Robert Morris.

We don't know that - you haven't played them. You biased opinions carry little weight.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I am baffled by all of this. Again I ask - why do colleges have football teams? Lafayette, for example: is the most important goal to play the "strongest" possible schedule just so the Pards can get a chance to go out and play Directional State U. in December? It's nice, but there are other, overarching priorities.

As an alumnus, I'm there when the Princeton Tigers invade College Hill, and I don't care how "strong" some hand-wringing naysayer believes either team to be. But if the Central Connecticut State Whatevers come rolling up Hamilton Street, I'll probably stay home and cut the lawn. Sorry to be so harsh, but that's just the way it is.

nb: Ace - it has nothing whatsoever to do with "logic," I assure you.

[Franks Tanks]

We don't know that - you haven't played them. You biased opinions carry little weight.

I know--RMU lost to a poor Bucknell team. All of your arguments are dead after that one.

[Franks Tanks]

Frank and Bougus - Can't you see that no other PL fans agree with your logic! The PL is way down and the NEC is up.

Just because of one loss vs Wagner or RMU, you are trying to igonre 5 years of NEC achivement. Every team has a bad game and is upset. I'm not crying in my soup, like you guys are.

How about HC's loss to Yale (6-4) last year?
Or Lafayette's loss Princeton (4-6) in 2007?
Despite their Ivy affilation, those were not strong team.

Lafayette and Holy Cross were not PL champs that year. A loss to Yale or Princeton those years isnt that same as losing to a team who lost to a poor D-II team (Wagner lost to Stonehill).

[Dane96]

I am baffled by all of this. Again I ask - why to colleges have football teams? Lafayette, for example: is the most important goal to play the "strongest" possible schedule just so the Pards can get a chance to go out and play Directional State U. in December? It's nice, but there are other, overarching priorities.

As an alumnus, I'm there when the Princeton Tigers invade College Hill, and I don't care how "strong" some hand-wringing naysayer believes either team to be. But if the Central Connecticut State Whatevers come rolling up Hamilton Street, I'll probably stay home and cut the lawn. Sorry to be so harsh, but that's just the way it is.

There is NO problem with the ideology that football is being played at Lafayette for more overarching goals and priorities (though I tend to think A- you dont believe that or you wouldnt be posting on Football message board, and B- I dont think many alumni who follow the Pards agree either-- tell me they didnt wish it were them playing Delaware in a National Title tilt instead of Colgate).

That said, dont bitch and whine when people say the PL doesnt deserve an at-large based on scheduling.

Two issues that are absolutely intertwined. And for the record, I am a huge fan of Feinstein's book about the PL.

[aceinthehole]

Here's the bottom line for you.

Since 2005, the PL has a 14-10 (.583) record over NEC teams.

By contrast, the CAA has a 17-3 (.850) record over the NEC in that same period.

You can keep posting smack all you want, but the fact that EVRYONE here knows is the PL is now a peer to the NEC on the field. Its a bitter pill to swallow, but its reality.

If CAA guys want to throw jabs at the NEC, I guess they've earned it. However even they seem to respect how far the NEC has come on the field, the tough schedules we have played, and the quality of players we recruit.

But the PL has NOTHING to crow about as everyone sees the hard, fast decline of the entire league. You are grasping at straws based on 2 conference upsets and it looks pretty pathetic to most people. xrolleyesx

[Franks Tanks]

There is NO problem with the ideology that football is being played at Lafayette for more overarching goals and priorities (though I tend to think A- you dont believe that or you wouldnt be posting on Football message board, and B- I dont think many alumni who follow the Pards agree either-- tell me they didnt wish it were them playing Delaware in a National Title tilt instead of Colgate).

That said, dont bitch and whine when people say the PL doesnt deserve an at-large based on scheduling.

Two issues that are absolutely intertwined. And for the record, I am a huge fan of Feinstein's book about the PL.

The point is that the good teams in the PL and the good teams in the NEC are pretty even. Some may be better one year, and others may be better another year. Last year Albany may have won the PL... I think PL teams would have had difficulty beating the 08 Albany team. This year however I dont think CCSU or Albany would beat Lafayette or Holy Cross. Next year it may be different.

However, it is absurd to state that the NEC has clearly passed the PL as that would indicate that NEC teams are better than PL every year, and that is not the case.

As for Lafayette yes we would rather play Colgate, and Bucknell and Penn and Columbia, just as we have for the better part of that last 100 years. We want to be competitive as possible on the national stage, but we arent going to sell our soul to do so.

[Franks Tanks]

Here's the bottom line for you.

Since 2005, the PL has a 14-10 (.583) record over NEC teams.

By contrast, the CAA has a 17-3 (.850) record over the NEC in that same period.

You can keep posting smack all you want, but the fact that EVRYONE here knows is the PL is now a peer to the NEC on the field. Its a bitter pill to swallow, but its reality.

If CAA guys want to throw jabs at the NEC, I guess they've earned it. However even they seem to respect how far the NEC has come on the field, the tough schedules we have played, and the quality of players we recruit.

But the PL has NOTHING to crow about as everyone sees the hard, fast decline of the entire league. You are grasping at straws based on 2 conference upsets and it looks pretty pathetic to most people. xrolleyesx

Yes a winning record..YOU are the one of those that has been asserting that the NEC is clearly better than the PL. However, you have chaned your tune as you actually look at the emperical evidence.

[Dane96]

The point is that the good teams in the PL and the good teams in the NEC are pretty even. Some may be better one year, and others may be better another year. Last year Albany may have won the PL... I think PL teams would have had difficulty beating the 08 Albany team. This year however I dont think CCSU or Albany would beat Lafayette or Holy Cross. Next year it may be different.

However, it is absurd to state that the NEC has clearly passed the PL as that would indicate that NEC teams are better than PL every year, and that is not the case.

As for Lafayette yes we would rather play Colgate, and Bucknell and Penn and Columbia, just as we have for the better part of that last 100 years. We want to be competitive as possible on the national stage, but we arent going to sell our soul to do so.

Franks-- you have seen my posting for years; I HAVE NEVER STATED THE NEC HAS CLEARLY SURPASSED THE NEC....NEVER...EVER...EVER. Please dont put words in my mouth.

And for the record, Lafayette and Holy Cross are in my Top 25. As for this year...I dont disagree that Albany would have had trouble with Lafayette or Holy Cross. We are a complete enigma this year...but I dont think either PL team would dominate Albany simply because of DEFENSE.

[aceinthehole]

However, it is absurd to state that the NEC has clearly passed the PL as that would indicate that NEC teams are better than PL every year, and that is not the case.

Where do you keep getting this nonesense? Stop putting words in NEC fans mouths!!

We have stated over and over again - On the field the NEC is on par with the PL (and Ivy for that matter). The PL has history for sure, but currently the conference are near even from top to bottom.

What that means is our top teams could win the PL title in any given year. ANd your bad teams are just as bad as the bottom of the NEC. Its impossible to know for a fact which teams are better unless they've played head-to-head.

Take your head out of the sand and accept that the NEC is now a peer conference to the PL and is no longer the weaker conference where PL teams could earn easy wins.

[aceinthehole]

Yes a winning record..YOU are the one of those that has been asserting that the NEC is clearly better than the PL. However, you have chaned your tune as you actually look at the emperical evidence.

Find those quotes! I've never said the NEC was a "better conference." I've always said we were "as good," "nearly the same," "peers," etc.

You are too busy trying to pump up your teams at the expense of trying to put down the NEC.

[Bogus Megapardus]

As for Lafayette yes we would rather play Colgate, and Bucknell and Penn and Columbia, just as we have for the better part of that last 100 years. We want to be competitive as possible on the national stage, but we arent going to sell our soul to do so.

And keep in mind that these rivalries (plus Princeton and Lehigh) predate the Patriot League, the Ivy League, and the NCAA itself. I would never want to see any of them forsaken.

[Franks Tanks]

Find those quotes! I've never said the NEC was a "better conference." I've always said we were "as good," "nearly the same," "peers," etc.

You are too busy trying to pump up your teams at the expense of trying to put down the NEC.

Ok-- This whole arguement gets started by NEC folks constantly downgrading the PL but trying to toot your own horn.

Some years the NEC has had teams that would compete for or possibly win the PL championsip. This isnt one of those years.. this has been my point all along.

[Franks Tanks]

Where do you keep getting this nonesense? Stop putting words in NEC fans mouths!!

We have stated over and over again - On the field the NEC is on par with the PL (and Ivy for that matter). The PL has history for sure, but currently the conference are near even from top to bottom.

What that means is our top teams could win the PL title in any given year. ANd your bad teams are just as bad as the bottom of the NEC. Its impossible to know for a fact which teams are better unless they've played head-to-head.

Take your head out of the sand and accept that the NEC is now a peer conference to the PL and is no longer the weaker conference where PL teams could earn easy wins.


In the threads abouts at large bids the NEC folks but the PL down over and over. Dont have time to look it up and perhaps I mis-understood agruements, but it is pretty clear some NEC fans feel that the NEC is superior. if you say is wasnt you guys then so be it, but that sentiment has been expressed on here.

[Franks Tanks]

And keep in mind that these rivalries (plus Princeton and Lehigh) predate the Patriot League, the Ivy League, and the NCAA itself. I would never want to see any of them forsaken.

Exactly. I certainly want to go to the playoffs and win some games, but I wouldnt want to get there by forsaking our traditional rivals.

[Dane96]

And keep in mind that these rivalries (plus Princeton and Lehigh) predate the Patriot League, the Ivy League, and the NCAA itself. I would never want to see any of them forsaken.

Answer the following questions simply:

1. Are PL teams fighting for a national title run?
2. Would you like to see a PL at-large team?

If you answer yes to both...then scheduling remains a factor.

If the answer is no...they you are IVY LITE, which for the record, would piss Frank Tavani off to no-end (see his anger at a PL player who stated the PL was the "Junior Ivy League).

[crusader11]

For me, I'd rather get rid of one or two of our "tradition" games and upgrade to a better team. Always, always keep Harvard on the schedule as they are a quality team to play every year and one of our oldest rivals. Drop a team like Brown in favor of UNH, Maine, Villanova, etc. If we are dropping an Ivy to "schedule up" I don't see the point of playing an NEC team though. It would most likely be seen as a parallel game and the alumni would certainly rather see Holy Cross play Villanova (similar schools, histories, alumni circles, etc.) than an NEC squad.

[Dane96]

"Now Albany, Central Connecticut State, Sacred Heart, Monmouth, St. Francis (PA), Wagner, and Robert Morris now can compete head-to-head for us for some recruits. They'll be offering some full and a lot of partial scholarships, even though the NEC champion doesn't get an automatic bid to the FCS playoffs. In addition, Albany, Monmouth and Central Connecticut State can shop the fact that they beat well-established FCS programs on the road last year (Lehigh, Delaware, Colgate, and Georgia Southern"). Lehigh Football Fan

What well established teams, and by the specific mention of the teams in bold I presume LFF meant "playoff teams", has the PL beaten lately? Again...the point is the NEC is giving itself, like the Big South teams, and opportunity to point to the schedule and say..."hey, we played some tough schools and beat them...we want an at-large bid no matter the strength of our league. THAT's the point here.

Seems like Tavani disagrees with you guys and wants a national scope, both athletically and student-body wise:

Starting this April with the recruiting class of 2008, Lafayette will be using a database and software company known as CyberSports Inc., a recruiting service that will hook it up with every high school in the country and give it interactive access. Princeton received more than 300 hits within hours of going operational recently with CyberSports Inc. ''CyberSports will expand us nationally,'' Tavani said. ''We can prospect more. You have to go farther and farther because there are less and less kids. You have to go somewhere where your competitors are not so you aren't going head to head on every kid. You can't win every battle.'' Frank Tavani

Also, he had two noted outbursts on the scholarship issue and the upgrades of the NEC. Believe they were a couple of years ago, in 2007.

[Dane96]

For me, I'd rather get rid of one or two of our "tradition" games and upgrade to a better team. Always, always keep Harvard on the schedule as they are a quality team to play every year and one of our oldest rivals. Drop a team like Brown in favor of UNH, Maine, Villanova, etc. If we are dropping an Ivy to "schedule up" I don't see the point of playing an NEC team though. It would most likely be seen as a parallel game and the alumni would certainly rather see Holy Cross play Villanova (similar schools, histories, alumni circles, etc.) than an NEC squad.

That...I absolutely can agree with.

[Franks Tanks]

Answer the following questions simply:

1. Are PL teams fighting for a national title run?
2. Would you like to see a PL at-large team?

If you answer yes to both...then scheduling remains a factor.

If the answer is no...they you are IVY LITE, which for the record, would piss Frank Tavani off to no-end (see his anger at a PL player who stated the PL was the "Junior Ivy League).


1- Yes (theoretically)
2- Yes (why wouldnt we, but success in the playoffs is a bigger factor)

But we would still rather play Penn than CCSU. We need more CAA teams on the schedule, which used to happen more often. But overall playing 3 or so Ivies is what we have done for the last 50 years. It isnt going to change to get a team in a slightly better position to get a playoff spot.

[aceinthehole]

Ok-- This whole arguement gets started by NEC folks constantly downgrading the PL but trying to toot your own horn.

Some years the NEC has had teams that would compete for or possibly win the PL championsip. This isnt one of those years.. this has been my point all along.

1) Wrong! I have said that CCSU/Albany wasn't getting the respect they deserved eary in the year, and I stand by that! We should have been getting more votes earlier. There is a anti-NEC bias, and in the voting and it shows.

The PL fans agree this is a "down" year for them, yet 3 teams were ranking at the same time???? Non-NEC fans have also noticed that fact and thought it was funny. How do you explain that?

2) You started this whole thread to try to use 1 loss by CCSU/UA as reason why thaey couldn't win the PL this year, which is absurd. Albany beat Maine and lost to RMU, what does that tell you - not much other than they are a very good team, who has some weaknesses.

Since we don't play the same schedule, its impossible to say with a fact who you can beat and who we can beat. The point is that the top of the PL this year have done little to prove they are better than the NEC leaders. HC close win over Lehigh raises a lot of questions. Colgate's close win over Princeton raised a lot of questions from non-NEC fans.

This year the PL is DOWN and its there is a 99% cahnce that the runner-up wil not get an at-latrge bid. I think that's what other PL fans are frustrated about - the 2nd best in the PL is not going to make the playoffs this years, where in years past that'd be a shoe-in.

[aceinthehole]

In the threads abouts at large bids the NEC folks but the PL down over and over. Dont have time to look it up and perhaps I mis-understood agruements, but it is pretty clear some NEC fans feel that the NEC is superior. if you say is wasnt you guys then so be it, but that sentiment has been expressed on here.

You don't have time look it up beacuse it doesn't exist!

You misunderstood because of your inferiority complex about the PL over the last few seasons.

[crusader11]

This is a "down" year for the PL? Lafayette and Holy Cross are two damn good football teams.

Listen, when you beat Sacred Heart by 12, Duquesne by 7, Bryant by a point, and lose to Wagner who lost to Stonehill there is NO WAY in hell that CCSU would be contending for the PL crown this year. CCSU has been a fraud all year by barely beating some lowly competition, and they were finally exposed against Wagner. There's a reason you are not getting much respect in the polls.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Wow. If ever there was a reason never to schedule anything against the NEC . . . .

[aceinthehole]

For me, I'd rather get rid of one or two of our "tradition" games and upgrade to a better team. Always, always keep Harvard on the schedule as they are a quality team to play every year and one of our oldest rivals. Drop a team like Brown in favor of UNH, Maine, Villanova, etc. If we are dropping an Ivy to "schedule up" I don't see the point of playing an NEC team though. It would most likely be seen as a parallel game and the alumni would certainly rather see Holy Cross play Villanova (similar schools, histories, alumni circles, etc.) than an NEC squad.

I understand that CCSU has no name appeal. As I said, schedule who you want.

But the point is, are you schedule "names" or do you want to improve your SOS. All I'm saying is CCSU would improve your SOS and playoff profile, if you win.

Second, I don't see the PL with a lot of CAA schools. Again, if you want to play UNH instead of CCSU, of course that's the better game for you. But as I see it, you are taking games with Marist, SHU, and Brown, instead of a stronger team, like CCSU.

[crusader11]

Is CCSU really stronger than Brown? Are they THAT much stronger than Sacred Heart?

[Franks Tanks]

1) Wrong! I have said that CCSU/Albany wasn't getting the respect they deserved eary in the year, and I stand by that! We should have been getting more votes earlier. There is a anti-NEC bias, and in the voting and it shows.

The PL fans agree this is a "down" year for them, yet 3 teams were ranking at the same time???? Non-NEC fans have also noticed that fact and thought it was funny. How do you explain that?

2) You started this whole thread to try to use 1 loss by CCSU/UA as reason why thaey couldn't win the PL this year, which is absurd. Albany beat Maine and lost to RMU, what does that tell you - not much other than they are a very good team, who has some weaknesses.

Since we don't play the same schedule, its impossible to say with a fact who you can beat and who we can beat. The point is that the top of the PL this year have done little to prove they are better than the NEC leaders. HC close win over Lehigh raises a lot of questions. Colgate's close win over Princeton raised a lot of questions from non-NEC fans.

This year the PL is DOWN and its there is a 99% cahnce that the runner-up wil not get an at-latrge bid. I think that's what other PL fans are frustrated about - the 2nd best in the PL is not going to make the playoffs this years, where in years past that'd be a shoe-in.


The Patriot league is not down this year. We are down compared to 10 and 20 years ago, but the PL is better than it has been over the last 3 years.

The PL rep this year will be our best team since 2005 in my opinion. No disrespect to the 06 Leopards, the 07 Rams, and the 08 Raiders.... but I feel the 09 Leopards and Crusaders are better than those three teams.

The people saying the PL is down are comparing to0 teams that have won games in the playoffs not the recent past.

[aceinthehole]

This is a "down" year for the PL? Lafayette and Holy Cross are two damn good football teams.

Listen, when you beat Sacred Heart by 12, Duquesne by 7, Bryant by a point, and lose to Wagner who lost to Stonehill there is NO WAY in hell that CCSU would be contending for the PL crown this year. CCSU has been a fraud all year by barely beating some lowly competition, and they were finally exposed against Wagner. There's a reason you are not getting much respect in the polls.

Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You lost to BROWN. They are unranked and 3rd in the Ivy - enogh said.
You beat Lehigh by just 4 points!
You beat Gtown by just 13!

Nothing to be too proud of.

[aceinthehole]

The Patriot league is not down this year.
The PL rep this year will be our best team since 2005 in my opinion.

Really, the PL isn't down, when you likely won't get an at-large again this year?

Oh, yeah ... that Colgate team that lost to CCSU?

Again, you aren't making much of a case.

[crusader11]

And we are ranked 13th in the country (and moving up)....something to be proud of.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Marist

We like Marist. They're comfortable, smart and unobtrusive. Plus they're kind of cute with that little red fox thing going on. They never complain and they always play hard. Sometimes they beat Georgetown, too. No secret, either, that Marist would have liked to have joined the Patriot League. Central Connecticut State would never stoop that low, would it?

[Franks Tanks]

Really, the PL isn't down, when you likely won't get an at-large again this year?

Oh, yeah ... that Colgate team that lost to CCSU?

Again, you aren't making much of a case.

WTF are you talking about. I am not arguing for an at large. I am stating the the PL is better than it has been since 2005 (at the top) in my opinion.

Congrats you beat Colgate in 05. COlgate also beat UMASS in 05 so I dont know what that means. We beat A-10 champs Richmond in 2005

[Bogus Megapardus]

And we are ranked 13th in the country (and moving up)....something to be proud of.

This. ^ ^ ^

And Storrs Lite is ranked where again?

[aceinthehole]

You guys have now fallen so low in defending the smallest accomplishments, that it now comes down to silly name calling.

Bravo - I'm sure you are making all PL fans proud.

xcoffeex

[Dane96]

And we are ranked 13th in the country (and moving up)....something to be proud of.

A ridiculous ranking.

[Bogus Megapardus]

A ridiculous ranking.

True. They'll be moving up, fortunately.

[crusader11]

A ridiculous ranking.

Tell that to all of the coaches and people on AGS who gave us the ranking. Apparently, they think we are worthy. Is everyone else wrong and you and ace are right?

[Franks Tanks]

You guys have now fallen so low in defending the smallest accomplishments, that it now comes down to silly name calling.

Bravo - I'm sure you are making all PL fans proud.

xcoffeex

Here's how it went. I said we have perhaps the best PL teams since 2005 (Colgate and Lafayette both made the playtoffs that year). This has nothing to do with the NEC. I said I think the winner of HC/Lafayette will be the best team the PL has put in the playoffs since 2005. Period end of discussion, nothing concerning the NEC is any manner.

You then state "CCSU beat COlgate in 2005"-- great ..awesome, here take a cookie. It didnt have anything to do with my point, but WE are the ones pulling out small bits if data?

Go away and wallow in your inferiority complex to the PL.

[aceinthehole]

Here's how it went. I said we have perhaps the best PL teams since 2005 (Colgate and Lafayette both made the playtoffs that year). This has nothing to do with the NEC. I said I think the winner of HC/Lafayette will be the best team the PL has put in the playoffs since 2005. Period end of discussion, nothing concerning the NEC is any manner.

You then state "CCSU beat COlgate in 2005"-- great ..awesome, here take a cookie. It didnt have anything to do with my point, but WE are the ones pulling out small bits if data?

Go away and wallow in your inferiority complex to the PL.

- You said that this year's PL champ is better than anything the NEC could offer.
- Then you stated that this is the best PL champ since 2005.
- I simply pointed out that your 05 Champ lost to a NEC team.

Any other reader would see the connections. You seem to have a peronal grudge. Remember, I'm just the anyyoning guy that states facts that most PL fans hate to read because its depressing. I can live with that.

You two PL guys started this whole THREAD to try to tear down CCSU/UA - so really, who has the inferiority complex xreadx

[crusader11]

You two PL guys started this whole THREAD to try to tear down CCSU/UA - so really, who has the inferiority complex xreadx

I have heard all year how good Albany and CCSU are...that they are on par with the top teams for the PL and how they would vie for a PL Championship. Simply saying with the embarrassing losses this weekend by both teams, neither team would finish in the top two or three of the league. Boom.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh great scheduling gods, please don't make us play these buffoons in my lifetime.

[crusader11]

Oh great scheduling gods, please don't make us play these buffoons in my lifetime.

Ease up my Patriot League brother. I'd welcome a game with CCSU or Albany, would much rather play a CAA or SoCon team any day of the week though. I'd be lying if I said that I'd rather play Dartmouth than CCSU this year.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ease up my Patriot League brother. I'd welcome a game with CCSU or Albany, would much rather play a CAA or SoCon team any day of the week though. I'd be lying if I said that I'd rather play Dartmouth than CCSU this year.

I hear you. I'll be good from now on, I promise.

[Go...gate]

Ease up my Patriot League brother. I'd welcome a game with CCSU or Albany, would much rather play a CAA or SoCon team any day of the week though. I'd be lying if I said that I'd rather play Dartmouth than CCSU this year.

Certainly a lot of passion on this issue, but it is hard to deny that the NEC has gotten stronger and is now largely at parity with the Patriot. I myself have no issue playing NEC schools - for example, Albany is a geographic natural for Colgate, Monmouth is building a strong program under Kevin Callahan, and Wagner is entitled to an up-and-down season once in a while.

Having said all that, do I think the Patriot League deserves this kind of trash-talk? No, I do not.

[aceinthehole]

Certainly a lot of passion on this issue, but it is hard to deny that the NEC has gotten stronger and is now largely at parity with the Patriot. I myself have no issue playing NEC schools - for example, Albany is a geographic natural for Colgate, Monmouth is building a striong program under Kevin Callahan, and Wagner is entitled to an up-and-down season once in a while.

Having said all that, do I think the Patriot League deserves this kind of trash-talk? No, I do not.

Gate, thanks for a dose of reality to this thread. xbowx

These two guys have been throwing stones for weeks and it started again with this thread. That's why you see all the unflattering realities I've posted about the PL.

Colgate is a program (and fans) I certainly have a lot of respect for. NEC teams have earned some well-deserved respect for beating programs like Colgate and Lehigh, which have been the standard bearers for the PL. And while some PL programs may be down, I know you're not out!

It's just too bad that a small minority of PL guys can't seem to give NEC peers their due. And that's what prompts the NEC fans to set the record straight.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xwhistlex

*can't find a biting-my-tongue icon*

[Go...gate]

xwhistlex

*can't find a biting-my-tongue icon*

How come, Bogus? I love playing the Ivies as much as you, 3-4 times a season. Colgate has done it for years, just as Lafayette and Holy Cross have. I have no trouble with an NEC or two on the sked, as long as Colgate also gets a CAA (or two) or a I-A stretch game. Our problem is that our AD won't do anything that is not home-and-home and few schools will come to Hamilton except for a 2-for-1 or a 3-for-1. Ironically, Princeton is one of the few exceptions, thank goodness.

[Sader87]

HC will never, ever, ever, ever drop Dartmouth for CCSU. It just won't happen.

Dartmouth on the other hand may drop at HC at some point.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dartmouth on the other hand may drop at HC at some point.

Does ya thinks they'll add CCSU instead?xrolleyesx

[Go...gate]

HC will never, ever, ever, ever drop Dartmouth for CCSU. It just won't happen.

Dartmouth on the other hand may drop at HC at some point.

Reportedly they have already picked up Sacred Heart for at least one game. Why not CCSU?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Big Green's OOC for 2010 and 2011 is Sacred Heart, Holy Cross and Colgate, all home-and-home. UNH is saying bye-bye in favor of the Pioneers.