Lehigh shows it can play

[ngineer]

The big question this week was what kind of Lehigh team would take field. One down in a mental funk after missing too many opportunities last week at Colgate to lose 'another close one', or a team out to prove that it has the talent to play toe to toe with the other 'big boys' in the PL?

Saturday's matchup of "The" Dominick Randolph Show versus a stout Lehigh defense was a minute away from being one of the biggest upsets in Lehigh history, as Holy Cross scored with 1:03 to play to win 24-20. Again, Lehigh failed to take advantage of some key turnovers created by the defense. While the offense showed life and moved the ball well at times, it repeatedly broke down in crucial situations with a few penalties (some quite questionable) that really took not only momentum, but points off the board, for the Mountain Hawks.

No question that if Lehigh plays with this intensity the rest of the way, they can beat both Fordham and Lafayette. While nowhere near expectations, 4-7 (and 4-2 in the league) is much better than a 2-9 finish. This is a very young team--especially on offense, with only one senior out there today, so one would think this year could well be a good seasoning experience, as frustrating as it has been for who follow the program.

My guess is that if Lehigh finishes playing like they did today, Coen will be given one more year to turn it around; though I would think the OC should still go. Again, today, we showed that we could move the chains. Despite the success of doing that, all of a sudden we go to a gadget play, that gets blown up, and puts the offense in a hole. Too many young players out there that should be focusing on fundamental football and not worrying about razzle-dazzle crap.

In the end, you are what your record says. But the players know they are much better than a 2-7 team. Holy Cross now knows it. The question is will they make a statement, yet, this year?

[Franks Tanks]

The big question this week was what kind of Lehigh team would take field. One down in a mental funk after missing too many opportunities last week at Colgate to lose 'another close one', or a team out to prove that it has the talent to play toe to toe with the other 'big boys' in the PL?

Saturday's matchup of "The" Dominick Randolph Show versus a stout Lehigh defense was a minute away from being one of the biggest upsets in Lehigh history, as Holy Cross scored with 1:03 to play to win 24-20. Again, Lehigh failed to take advantage of some key turnovers created by the defense. While the offense showed life and moved the ball well at times, it repeatedly broke down in crucial situations with a few penalties (some quite questionable) that really took not only momentum, but points off the board, for the Mountain Hawks.

No question that if Lehigh plays with this intensity the rest of the way, they can beat both Fordham and Lafayette. While nowhere near expectations, 4-7 (and 4-2 in the league) is much better than a 2-9 finish. This is a very young team--especially on offense, with only one senior out there today, so one would think this year could well be a good seasoning experience, as frustrating as it has been for who follow the program.

My guess is that if Lehigh finishes playing like they did today, Coen will be given one more year to turn it around; though I would think the OC should still go. Again, today, we showed that we could move the chains. Despite the success of doing that, all of a sudden we go to a gadget play, that gets blown up, and puts the offense in a hole. Too many young players out there that should be focusing on fundamental football and not worrying about razzle-dazzle crap.

In the end, you are what your record says. But the players know they are much better than a 2-7 team. Holy Cross now knows it. The question is will they make a statement, yet, this year?

Nice effort by Lehigh today. There is certainly talent on the tean, but it is not coming together.

If Lafayette wins next week we are league champs no matter what happens in the Game. If we lose to Holy Cross we will be deflated and anything can happen.

[LacesOut]

Dude, what?????!!!!

WTF is your record??????

[Sader87]

Lehigh played very well...defensively especially. HC is good but somewhat flawed, the defense is a bit banged up and truth be told, not that good to begin with. In many ways our 8-1 record is a result of a pretty weak schedule in all honesty.

[ngineer]

Dude, what?????!!!!

WTF is your record??????

Read what I posted in the last paragraph. The kids have shown they can play. They just haven't learned how to win..and, there's a difference.

[RichH2]

Right on the mark ngineer, dont see that Andy knows how to teach the kids how to win. Wish he did, I like him . 4 yrs withthe same script is hard on everyone but mostly on the team itself . That they still try as hard as they do is a testament to their belief in Andy. He has not yet justified that faith.

[LacesOut]

Read what I posted in the last paragraph. The kids have shown they can play. They just haven't learned how to win..and, there's a difference.

Ok my bad. I just skimmed what you wrote.

With that said, I still don't think Lehigh has a good enough team/coaching staff/program..to make any noise in the next year or two.

I think a change or two is needed.

[Sader87]

The Patriot League teams, save for GTown and Bucknell, are all about the same this year. Any one of the other teams could beat one another depending on turnovers, penalties, bad breaks/bounces, home-field etc. etc. Lehigh played us MUCH tougher than Colgate for instance.

[RichH2]

Thanks 87, but it is small comfort for us to just be a tough game for our opponents. So far that is all Andy has been able to accomplish. To my mind he has to show that his team can win a string of these tightly contested games. As of now he only has 2 left.

[kardplayer]

Lehigh's loss today makes them 0-5 in games decided by 7 or less after being 0-4 last year. They are now 2-14 under Coach Coen in these games.

If they could learn how to close these games out, they could be a playoff team again, as they'd be sitting at 7-2 right now with the Lafayette game for all the PL marbles instead of 2-7.

If you think this is insane, keep in mind that they went from 1-6 in 1997 to 5-1 in 1998 - and that loss was the heartbreaker at UMass in the playoffs.

[Sader87]

The Lehigh offense isn't good enough to be 7-2 at this point...poor decision making by QB, no real play-makers to speak of yet etc., maybe next year though. The margin of difference between who's "good" and "who's not" is very, very slight in the PL these days.

[kardplayer]

The Lehigh offense isn't good enough to be 7-2 at this point...poor decision making by QB, no real play-makers to speak of yet etc., maybe next year though. The margin of difference between who's "good" and "who's not" is very, very slight in the PL these days.

Then I guess the defense must be pretty good, since if they make 1-2 more plays in each of those games, they would be 7-2. You could call it a soft 7-2 and I wouldn't argue, but they make one more 3rd down stop, commit one less penalty or score one more TD in those games and they would be 7-2.

Clearly, if they had a better offense, that would solve it altogether, then they'd be making A LOT of plays, instead of just 1-2 more :)

[breezy]

I was expecting Lehigh to be one of the major competitors to my Holy Cross team this year. It did not turn out that way. However, watching the game yesterday, I was impressed by the enthusiasm and effort shown by the Lehigh team. They fell a bit short, but they earned my respect.

[ngineer]

The Lehigh offense isn't good enough to be 7-2 at this point...poor decision making by QB, no real play-makers to speak of yet etc., maybe next year though. The margin of difference between who's "good" and "who's not" is very, very slight in the PL these days.

Yes, and the reason I've been calling for a new OC and/or QB coach. Clark has missed seeing wide open receivers all year, and yesterday was no exception. The WRs are young, mostly sophs and frosh and should be more 'impactful' next year. Still, as per my first observation, Drwal was open a couple times yesterday that Clark did not see, yet he throws to another wr that's doubled.xsmhx

[van]

Not to mention his overthrow in the end zone on 4th down when he could have trotted for a first down and more. I like Clark's attitude and he performs well at times, if he can learn to read defenses better and check off he could be quite good. Since sitting down, he has avoided many of the big errors from earlier and improved considerably.

[ngineer]

Not to mention his overthrow in the end zone on 4th down when he could have trotted for a first down and more. I like Clark's attitude and he performs well at times, if he can learn to read defenses better and check off he could be quite good. Since sitting down, he has avoided many of the big errors from earlier and improved considerably.

Yes, very good observation. I was yelling 'RUN!' as he was rolling out...he obviously didn't hear me...:o

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, very good observation. I was yelling 'RUN!' as he was rolling out...he obviously didn't hear me...:o

That is real funny - I was doing the same thing! xrotatehx

[LEHIGH61]

This Lehigh team is full of underclassmen, don't forget. Next year could be another story altogether. The offense returns 10 of 11 starters next season. Holy Cross has reached the pinnacle this year with a lot of experience. That's why they have been so succesful this year. Colgate has a lot coming back, but I think Lehigh SHOULD BE in excellent good shape next year. A season of experience can make all the difference in the world in football. Will they be hungry after this season's experiences? I think so!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well, we know they'll leave nothing on the field for the 145th. That's the one way the Engineers can salvage the season, of course . . . . xpeacex

[Digby]

This season cannot be salvaged. The most interesting thing will be to see if the school tells Coen to change staff members or they make the big change.
I would say the Lehigh faithful got what they deserved after not understanding that Lembo's nine wins per year were pretty darn good.
Would you rather be 9-2, or 2-7? Maybe 3-8, 4-7 tops this year.

[Franks Tanks]

This Lehigh team is full of underclassmen, don't forget. Next year could be another story altogether. The offense returns 10 of 11 starters next season. Holy Cross has reached the pinnacle this year with a lot of experience. That's why they have been so succesful this year. Colgate has a lot coming back, but I think Lehigh SHOULD BE in excellent good shape next year. A season of experience can make all the difference in the world in football. Will they be hungry after this season's experiences? I think so!

Thats what you said last year...and the year before that.

[Gater]

Last Three Years:
Lafayette 22-9
Lehigh 12-19

Not sure how much of Lehigh's experience is a good thing. Holy Cross went 7-4 three years in a row before this year's 8-1. Colgate lost its whole O-line and is 8-2 and 24-9 over the past three years. Fordham has seemingly missed it's chance to be great but is still 18-15 over the past three seasons. Something isn't working at Lehigh. Not sure how many coaches inherit a winning program and lose at this rate and then turn it around. I would imagine there are examples, but they have to be few and far between.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Last Three Years:
Lafayette 22-9
Lehigh 12-19

Not sure how much of Lehigh's experience is a good thing. Holy Cross went 7-4 three years in a row before this year's 8-1. Colgate lost its whole O-line and is 8-2 and 24-9 over the past three years. Fordham has seemingly missed it's chance to be great but is still 18-15 over the past three seasons. Something isn't working at Lehigh. Not sure how many coaches inherit a winning program and lose at this rate and then turn it around. I would imagine there are examples, but they have to be few and far between.

Gater, you're going to start a war here.xnodxxnodxxnodx

[Lehigh74]

My guess is that if Lehigh finishes playing like they did today, Coen will be given one more year to turn it around; though I would think the OC should still go. Again, today, we showed that we could move the chains. Despite the success of doing that, all of a sudden we go to a gadget play, that gets blown up, and puts the offense in a hole. Too many young players out there that should be focusing on fundamental football and not worrying about razzle-dazzle crap.



I sincerely hope you are wrong about Coen getting one more year. I like Andy Coen but he has had four years and the only thing he has consistently proven is that he will find a way to lose every close game. If his assistant coaches are not doing the job he should know enough to make the changes that are necessary without being forced to do so by the AD. Before this program falls any further, I think a change needs to be made.

[kardplayer]

Well, we know they'll leave nothing on the field for the 145th. That's the one way the Engineers can salvage the season, of course . . . . xpeacex


This season cannot be salvaged. The most interesting thing will be to see if the school tells Coen to change staff members or they make the big change.
I would say the Lehigh faithful got what they deserved after not understanding that Lembo's nine wins per year were pretty darn good.
Would you rather be 9-2, or 2-7? Maybe 3-8, 4-7 tops this year.

Bogus is right.

I'd rather be 3-8 with a win over Lafayette than 7-4 (and out of the playoffs) with a loss.

[Go...gate]

Lehigh needs another Fred Dunlap type, IMO. They have the talent - they need to learn how to win. It took Dunlap a while but once he got the train on the tracks, Lehigh was very good for a very long time.

[Lehigh74]

Lehigh needs another Fred Dunlap type, IMO. They have the talent - they need to learn how to win. It took Dunlap a while but once he got the train on the tracks, Lehigh was very good for a very long time.

Forget about Fred Dunlap, I'll take another Kevin Higgins.

[ngineer]

This season cannot be salvaged. The most interesting thing will be to see if the school tells Coen to change staff members or they make the big change.
I would say the Lehigh faithful got what they deserved after not understanding that Lembo's nine wins per year were pretty darn good.
Would you rather be 9-2, or 2-7? Maybe 3-8, 4-7 tops this year.

Are you Pete's shadow...You have been carrying his cross forever. It's history. Looking forward, I am.....xpeacex

[ngineer]

I sincerely hope you are wrong about Coen getting one more year. I like Andy Coen but he has had four years and the only thing he has consistently proven is that he will find a way to lose every close game. If his assistant coaches are not doing the job he should know enough to make the changes that are necessary without being forced to do so by the AD. Before this program falls any further, I think a change needs to be made.

My statement is based upon the way I think Lehigh works. College sports at this level is not in the pure business model of 'bottom line', i.e. wins/losses. The players seem to like Coen alot, the parents seem to like him alot, he's a real decent guy, runs a clean program. Yes, there is a lot of frustration with a cadre of alums who are strong followers of the program, but in the overall scheme of things, I don't know how much that carries. I think he gets one more year.

[ngineer]

Lehigh needs another Fred Dunlap type, IMO. They have the talent - they need to learn how to win. It took Dunlap a while but once he got the train on the tracks, Lehigh was very good for a very long time.

Fred took a program that had fallen head first into the crapper. It took him until his 7th season to get a winning season, but every year one could see measureable improvement. Hard to measure anything right now. ..

[RichH2]

Played forDunlap and recruited with Kevin. Fred a drill sgt,tough as nails and the HC, no if, ands or buts. Taught confidence and brought in talent. Kevin a players coach , great teacher , competitive bragged he could take Rabih one on one. The 1st had to imbue confidence where there never had been any in yrs. Kevin had to revive a successful program a bit as it was stale, new blood. Kevin 's great talent was recognizing a great system and using it superbly and seeing talent both in coaches and players. This staff other than on D has not shown the ability to teach these players. They may be many good things but at the end of the day they have failed. New coaches. Would you trust Coen to hire the next batch? Can he find the right talents and personalities to teach these players?

Lots of questions few answers. Given the fact that the program's performance has flatlined, my only reservation with not renewing his contract is the respect and heart that the kids have shown for him. They come out every week and try harder and harder to win. Their inconsistency in performance results not from lack of effort or talent but coaching. The position coaches have certainly failed beyond any reason to retain them.

[Doc QB]

From Rich2...Their inconsistency in performance results not from lack of effort or talent but coaching. The position coaches have certainly failed beyond any reason to retain them

I think this reason alone is why a full scale emptying of the entire coaching staff is in order. Good people lose jobs, its a fact of life, especially in sports. Sometimes things don't work out. There are coaches out there who are less than gentleman and keep their jobs because they do win. Winning is the business. Andy will land on his feet in a coordinator role, which may best suit his talents.

I just wonder what will happen based on history. Hank Small left/got fired whatever, and there was a ton of conjecture as to why. He had finally won a league crown, and left...without a job, as he went to Wake forest as RB coach a year later. Lembo, obviously was winning, but what was the true internal feeling and alumni feeling, and who wanted out more, Lembo or the alums or Sterrett? At least in the present situation, Coen has a program on a rapid decline, and results are simply lacking. Sterret needs to clean house.

[RichH2]

Not being inside the team, I cannot say what factors have contributed to offensive team's struggles. They could be numerous and varied and not all the fault of either the players or the coaches. But, accountability is a necessity in any endeavor. The issue is not to look for a scapegoat but rather search for the solution. It took Kevin the better part of 4 seasons to build his staff and team. Coen has recruited very well and stocked the squad with solid talent at every position. A 2-14 record in close games goes to coaching. Brown may in a different context be a bright Offensive mind. He has not shown the leadership or play calling ability to warrant retention . Andy still has not gotten the trick of being the HC. OC , I guess. Kids seem to love him and give great effort but they do not seem able to win for him. It may be that they need a Dunlap HC, whom they may not love but by God they will respect.

[LEHIGH61]

I didn't say that about last year or the year before. All I said was that I expected a good season this year. Unfortunately I was wrong on that count. You may be in for a surprise against us, smart boy. Better not mouth off too much. We could take you out!

[Franks Tanks]

I didn't say that about last year or the year before. All I said was that I expected a good season this year. Unfortunately I was wrong on that count. You may be in for a surprise against us, smart boy. Better not mouth off too much. We could take you out!

You may take us out, but your season has been a train wreck by any measure, and it will be your 3rd losing season in a row.

[LEHIGH61]

"The Rivalry" is coming. It sure made Lafayette's seasons the VERY FEW times they beat Lehigh when Lafayette was crap. IT WILL PUT A SMILE ON OUR FACES!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

"The Rivalry" is coming. It sure made Lafayette's seasons the VERY FEW times they beat Lehigh when Lafayette was crap. IT WILL PUT A SMILE ON OUR FACES!!

I was of the understanding from reading LFN that the Lafayette-Lehigh rivalry was now "beneath" the Engineers, and that it meant much, much more to Lafayette. This is because Lehigh always has bigger fish to fry down the road, and that for Lafayette, which could never have a continuing expectation of post-season play, success in the final regular season game was its only realistic goal.

What say you, Lehigh fans?

[RichH2]

Bogus,

You are starting to write like 94, dangling bait for the unwary. Since we have only won1 game of late, there is little doubt that given our spectacular season so far the LC game is merely another bump on the road. Where to you may ask? Dont have a fr*gging clue. Ah the sweet taste of bitterness and bile

[Bogus Megapardus]

dangling bait for the unwary

Guilty as charged. xasswhipx


the LC game is merely another bump on the road

Perhaps the game could be called off due to indifference and lack of interest on the home side. The Pards could use a bye that week.

[Pard94]

Bogus,

You are starting to write like 94, dangling bait for the unwary. Since we have only won1 game of late, there is little doubt that given our spectacular season so far the LC game is merely another bump on the road. Where to you may ask? Dont have a fr*gging clue. Ah the sweet taste of bitterness and bile

This is a problem. I'm already smacking Lehigh65 around over on this thread...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65965&page=3

We need to come up with a central, agreed upon location where we can point out to all just how futile and all too pathetic Lehigh football has become. xnodx

[Pard4Life]

This is a problem. I'm already smacking Lehigh65 around over on this thread...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65965&page=3

We need to come up with a central, agreed upon location where we can point out to all just how futile and all too pathetic Lehigh football has become. xnodx

Why point this out? It's a well established fact by now across FCS.

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolxxlolx

Guess we'll just have to postpone our incessant pity party and get to the much more important ( at least for the Pardsxrolleyesx) p*ssing contest .

Weapons:Keyboards and animus, quills optional for the older crowd

Location:On the NET , altho behind the woodshed might be more appropriate given our season to datexsmhx.

[Digby]

When people were talking about the thrashing by Villanova as a hopeful step forward, it was obvious Lehigh's season was over.

[LEHIGH61]

Not as pathetic as Lafayette 6 years ago

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not as pathetic as Lafayette 6 years ago

I have never hoped for a Fordham win more that I do right now. Oh please, John Skelton - toss a shutout. Please?

[Franks Tanks]

Not as pathetic as Lafayette 6 years ago

Lafayette was 5-6 in 2003. It is impossible for the Hawks to even match that mark this year.

[LEHIGH61]

Hey Tanks, the world isn't over until 2012. I'm looking to smile a few times before then. And I know that , if we take you out, you and other Lafayette fans will be patheticly depressed bastards. And you will have to digest your words. Here's Hoping! And if you don't get to the playoffs , your season is a failure. That's the fact these days.

[Franks Tanks]

Hey Tanks, the world isn't over until 2012. I'm looking to smile a few times before then. And I know that , if we take you out, you and other Lafayette fans will be patheticly depressed bastards. And you will have to digest your words. Here's Hoping! And if you don't get to the playoffs , your season is a failure. That's the fact these days.

xlolx

If we dont go to the playoffs the season will be a dissapointment, but not a failure.

2-7 right now would be a failure.

[Pard4Life]

Not as pathetic as Lafayette 6 years ago

Andy Coen would beg for a 5-6 record.

[Pard94]

Hey Tanks, the world isn't over until 2012. I'm looking to smile a few times before then. And I know that , if we take you out, you and other Lafayette fans will be patheticly depressed bastards. And you will have to digest your words. Here's Hoping! And if you don't get to the playoffs , your season is a failure. That's the fact these days.

Are darkest days came on the heels of an idiot president publically pondering a drop to Division III. Screwed up recruiting for 5 years. That guy is mercifully long gone. $33 million dollar stadium and a couple of PL championships later we are on the top of the world. To what do you attribute Lehigh's current state, 65? Why are you guys the "pathetically depressed bastards". Bad decisions? Poor execution of a plan? No plan at all? All of the above? It's a little harder to put a finger on your extended period of suckiness than it was ours. You guys just plain suck. We may be patetically depressed bastards. But I've been to your board...you guys ARE pathetically depressed bastards.

Oh well... best case scenario for you guys...you get to endure a coaching search in the offseason and pray the new guy can come in and work with players who "aren't his". And hope he can piece together something that resembles a respectable season within the next two years. Worst case scenario...you don't. Coen's back and you guys pray he's figured out how to coach by then. Either way...Lafayette is off to play for yet another championship. In the words of the immortal Shaquille O'Neal..."Hey Lehigh...how's are a*s taste"? Have a great weekend.

[ngineer]

I get a kick out of all this bluster. It's like whistling past the graveyard. You guys are petrified that Lehigh will be knocking your dream to smithereens...because, the kids in Brown and White have the talent to do it. Our season has already been in the crapper and knocking off the cocky, self-impressed pussies will make a very warm winter. So keep it coming. Makes the victory all the more satisfying.xnodx

[Gater]

Actually, if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and then loses to Lehigh, aren't they in the playoffs? Wouldn't the tie-breaker between Holy Cross and Lafayette go Lafayette's way because of head-to-head competition? If Lafayette loses to Holy Cross, they probably won't get in over Liberty and would have a hard time getting an at large. Seems like the Lehigh game will do very little to decide Lafayette's playoff fate.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Actually, if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and then loses to Lehigh, aren't they in the playoffs? Wouldn't the tie-breaker between Holy Cross and Lafayette go Lafayette's way because of head-to-head competition? If Lafayette loses to Holy Cross, they probably won't get in over Liberty and would have a hard time getting an at large. Seems like the Lehigh game will do very little to decide Lafayette's playoff fate.

Yes - the winner of the Lafayette/Holy Cross game is the PL champion and gets the the AQ, no matter what else happens.

[Pard94]

I get a kick out of all this bluster. It's like whistling past the graveyard. You guys are petrified that Lehigh will be knocking your dream to smithereens...because, the kids in Brown and White have the talent to do it. Our season has already been in the crapper and knocking off the cocky, self-impressed pussies will make a very warm winter. So keep it coming. Makes the victory all the more satisfying.xnodx

Do you guys have some super secret "talent meter" you use to meassure the talent on a given team? Wow...it's amazing what technology can do these days. I remember the good old days when all you could do to measure the worth of a team was look at the overall win/loss record. Now Lehigh has the ability to figure it out all by themselves. Why play out the season? Save a lot of bumps and bruises and just put everyone under the Lehigh University Chicken Hawk Talent Meter and the ghost of Asa Packer can tell us who the most talented team in the league is every year around August. Think of all the money we will save in athletic tape!

I assure you no one on the Lafayette team has given even a second thought to Lehigh yet. You don't go into a nationally televised game, playing for the league championship thinking about the following week. I know it's been a long time since you guys have put together a season worth a suirt of warm p*ss but surely you can remember that much about being a winning program, no?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Actually it's more basic than that. It's written into the Patriot League charter that Bucknell will be the overall sports champion each year, but in football, " . . . Lehigh University shall be designated each season as the class of the League [to which] . . . all other football members shall defer . . . " In addition, the charter stipulates that " . . . Lehigh University shall be the final arbiter of the athletic talent and worthiness of each other football member . . . " Finally, the charter stipulates that " . . . [only] Lehigh University shall be entitled to a football history and tradition to which no other football member may compare itself."

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolxxlolx

While it is not supposed to be common knowledge, since you have unearthed the supersecret bylaws of the PL, the truth must be admitted. The clause was originally adopted for Holy Cross and then assigned on a rotating basis to Lafayette and Lehigh. In this decade Gate and Fordham have laid claims to this position. It would seem that the Pards will now attempt to take possession again this year preparing for next season.

[Pard4Life]

That charter is wrong on the history and tradition aspect; Pards have a more notable and storied history that Lehigh only wishes it had.

[Pard94]

Actually it's more basic than that. It's written into the Patriot League charter that Bucknell will be the overall sports champion each year, but in football, " . . . Lehigh University shall be designated each season as the class of the League [to which] . . . all other football members shall defer . . . " In addition, the charter stipulates that " . . . Lehigh University shall be the final arbiter of the athletic talent and worthiness of each other football member . . . " Finally, the charter stipulates that " . . . [only] Lehigh University shall be entitled to a football history and tradition to which no other football member may compare itself."

Oh..that's kind of boring. I kind of envisioned a scene out of Harry Potter where all of the Lehigh players lined up at the beginning of the season and LFN held a magic helmet over there head and the helmet would either pipe up with, "TALENTED!" or "GOOD enough for the rest of the league but not Lehigh...NOT TALENTED". And the players were sorted accordingly.

[Pard4Life]

You watch Harry Potter, 94?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Actually it's more basic than that. It's written into the Patriot League charter that Bucknell will be the overall sports champion each year, but in football, " . . . Lehigh University shall be designated each season as the class of the League [to which] . . . all other football members shall defer . . . " In addition, the charter stipulates that " . . . Lehigh University shall be the final arbiter of the athletic talent and worthiness of each other football member . . . " Finally, the charter stipulates that " . . . [only] Lehigh University shall be entitled to a football history and tradition to which no other football member may compare itself."


Oh..that's kind of boring. I kind of envisioned a scene out of Harry Potter where all of the Lehigh players lined up at the beginning of the season and LFN held a magic helmet over there head and the helmet would either pipe up with, "TALENTED!" or "GOOD enough for the rest of the league but not Lehigh...NOT TALENTED". And the players were sorted accordingly.

xlolx

BTW, the "everyone disrespects us because we're little ol' Lafayette" is wearing a bit thin, guys.

[Pard94]

You watch Harry Potter, 94?

I may have have seen a bit of it while flipping around waiting for "Masterpiece Theatre" to start. xsmiley_wix

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I may have have seen a bit of it while flipping around waiting for "Masterpiece Theatre" to start. xsmiley_wix

I knew it! Northeastern elitist! xcoffeex

[Pard94]

xlolx

BTW, the "everyone disrespects us because we're little ol' Lafayette" is wearing a bit thin, guys.

I will grant you that "lil old Lafayette" is certainly one of the more recognizable Patriot League memes that have been present in the league lo these many years. Another is "Lehigh is great. And when we suck we're still great". And I would contend that, league wide, the Lehigh superiority complex is worn way thinner than Lafayette's inferiority complex...by a WIDE margin. The only thing that makes it bearable is that is completely rooted in fantasy and it's actually pretty comical.

[Pard94]

I knew it! Northeastern elitist! xcoffeex

I wouldn't say we in the Northeast are elitists...we're just better than everybody else.

[Bogus Megapardus]

That charter is wrong on the history and tradition aspect; Pards have a more notable and storied history that Lehigh only wishes it had.


Oh..that's kind of boring. I kind of envisioned a scene out of Harry Potter where all of the Lehigh players lined up at the beginning of the season and LFN held a magic helmet over there head and the helmet would either pipe up with, "TALENTED!" or "GOOD enough for the rest of the league but not Lehigh...NOT TALENTED". And the players were sorted accordingly.

Well, I figured someone would take the ball and run with it. Word is that if these provisions weren't written into the charter, Lehigh wouldn't join and and it no longer would schedule Lafayette, thus ending The Rivalry.

I like where you're going with the Harry Potter thing; maybe all PL prospects should have to line up and, one by one, enter a dimly-lit room in the sub-cellar of Linderman, alone with Asa Packer. Those that come out smiling make the Brown and White squad.

[carney2]

Hey Tanks, the world isn't over until 2012. I'm looking to smile a few times before then. And I know that , if we take you out, you and other Lafayette fans will be patheticly depressed bastards. And you will have to digest your words. Here's Hoping! And if you don't get to the playoffs , your season is a failure. That's the fact these days.

This thread has degenerated into THE Game: A Preview. In any event, how about Pard94 and the old fool quoted above in an iron cage match?

[Bogus Megapardus]

This thread has degenerated into THE Game: A Preview.

It would be wholly unreasonable to contain all of this good-natured fun to one location. I oppose any suggestion that it be consolidated.

[Pard4Life]

I will grant you that "lil old Lafayette" is certainly one of the more recognizable Patriot League memes that have been present in the league lo these many years. Another is "Lehigh is great. And when we suck we're still great". And I would contend that, league wide, the Lehigh superiority complex is worn way thinner than Lafayette's inferiority complex...by a WIDE margin. The only thing that makes it bearable is that is completely rooted in fantasy and it's actually pretty comical.

It's still true though; the TV station in our own region doesn't mention us, we are having the same season (arguably better on paper) as HC, and we were only ranked last week. Not to mention Curley has been every bit as good as Randolph.

[Pard4Life]

A few things have me worried:

- HC is first in FCS in PPG and third down conversion; also tops in passing yards.

Randolph is also their leading rusher. What has been the best way to slow him? Double spy and constant pressure?

Plus we all know Laf can't defend passes well and is less than impressive on third down defense.

[RichH2]

xthumbsupxxlolx

The I hate __________ ( fill in name) is starting out much better than last year. So many egos, so little time.

Since Lehigh is in the crapper for now along with our well noted sense of entitlement, Pards -Cross picks fun to watch. Bet on clone of Gate-Pards. Hell of a match. Pards myopia with Lehigh can wait til Sunday. xnonoxNot really fair to harp on Pards massive insecurity complex until next week. HC-LC game should have top billing. xthumbsupx

[Pard94]

A few things have me worried:

- HC is first in FCS in PPG and third down conversion; also tops in passing yards.

Randolph is also their leading rusher. What has been the best way to slow him? Double spy and constant pressure?

Plus we all know Laf can't defend passes well and is less than impressive on third down defense.

We defended Skelton pretty damn well...I hear he is supposed to be pretty good.

Everything actually worries me about this game. Good news is I think most HC fans feel exactly the same way.

[Pard94]

xthumbsupxxlolx

The I hate __________ ( fill in name) is starting out much better than last year. So many egos, so little time.

Since Lehigh is in the crapper for now along with our well noted sense of entitlement, Pards -Cross picks fun to watch. Bet on clone of Gate-Pards. Hell of a match. Pards myopia with Lehigh can wait til Sunday. xnonoxNot really fair to harp on Pards massive insecurity complex until next week. HC-LC game should have top billing. xthumbsupx

I'm afraid I left my Little Orphan Annie Decoder Ring at home. What??

[Bogus Megapardus]

xthumbsupxxlolx

The I hate __________ ( fill in name) is starting out much better than last year. So many egos, so little time.



Starting Sunday, I will have my browser set to auto-insult. A pithy jibe at directed at the Fountain Pigeons will be retrieved from memory and posted every fifteen minutes throughout the day. It has been preprogrammed for months so there is no way to turn it off.

[Pard4Life]

We defended Skelton pretty damn well...I hear he is supposed to be pretty good.

Everything actually worries me about this game. Good news is I think most HC fans feel exactly the same way.

Yes but HC has a few more wins, a better line, and probably faster recievers. Plus Skelton kept throwing out patterns.

[RichH2]

xnodxxnodx Bogus , I must apologize ,I've been slacking off this year, I only have a few hundred standard Pard putdowns on a loop to post . I am breaking out the Rusty Nails to keep up my end of the pre-GAME festivities . Cognac does wonders for my invective levels.xrolleyesx

Dont tell 94, but good luck on Saturday. Should be a great game

[ngineer]

Actually, if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and then loses to Lehigh, aren't they in the playoffs? Wouldn't the tie-breaker between Holy Cross and Lafayette go Lafayette's way because of head-to-head competition? If Lafayette loses to Holy Cross, they probably won't get in over Liberty and would have a hard time getting an at large. Seems like the Lehigh game will do very little to decide Lafayette's playoff fate.

Yes and no. Yes, the winner of the HC game is the AQ. However, if LC loses to LU, then their first round assignment will be effected. IF HC beats LC, LC still has shot at an At-Large bid with losses to two top 20 teams. A loss to LU would demolish that hope.

[ngineer]

That charter is wrong on the history and tradition aspect; Pards have a more notable and storied history that Lehigh only wishes it had.

Now that's funny..xlolx

[ngineer]

Actually it's more basic than that. It's written into the Patriot League charter that Bucknell will be the overall sports champion each year, but in football, " . . . Lehigh University shall be designated each season as the class of the League [to which] . . . all other football members shall defer . . . " In addition, the charter stipulates that " . . . Lehigh University shall be the final arbiter of the athletic talent and worthiness of each other football member . . . " Finally, the charter stipulates that " . . . [only] Lehigh University shall be entitled to a football history and tradition to which no other football member may compare itself."

Boy, you guys really have large chip on your shoulder, huh?

[ngineer]

It would be wholly unreasonable to contain all of this good-natured fun to one location. I oppose any suggestion that it be consolidated.

That we can agree on!xnodx This relationship is too big for just one thread.

[RichH2]

It is the infamous Lafayette Loser Syndrome.xreadx Massive incurable inferiorty complex caused by being in the shadow of that world renowned institution n South Mountain LEHIGH UNIVERSITY.xbowx It is not that the chip is so big it is that their shoulders are so smallxnodx

[Pard4Life]

Now that's funny..xlolx

Well, why don't you check the College Football HOF members, National Championships, and games in Yankee Stadium, Polo Grounds, and Franklin Field to start? Then there are those "helmet" and "huddle" thingys. Not to mention wins over you.

Yes very funny.

[RichH2]

Gentlemen , you have an excellent point. In fact, no other posting s/b permitted on AGS from Sunday midnight til the GAME except as they relate to the GAME. xsmhx

I dont understand why everyone thinks Lehigh fans are completely egocentric. They would be allowed to post about the GAME also. You just cant please some peoplexrolleyesx

[Pard4Life]

It is the infamous Lafayette Loser Syndrome.xreadx Massive incurable inferiorty complex caused by being in the shadow of that world renowned institution n South Mountain LEHIGH UNIVERSITY.xbowx It is not that the chip is so big it is that their shoulders are so smallxnodx

Um, 76-63-5.... who's in whose shadow? Thank you.

[RichH2]

Pard4Life

Its tough when the best you can do is recite ancient history to quell your innate inferioroty. Very sad.
Let us keep it to the last half of the Century.

[Pard4Life]

Gentlemen , you have an excellent point. In fact, no other posting s/b permitted on AGS from Sunday midnight til the GAME except as they relate to the GAME. xsmhx

I dont understand why everyone thinks Lehigh fans are completely egocentric. They would be allowed to post about the GAME also. You just cant please some peoplexrolleyesx

Probably comments on playing Notre Dame, calling Colgate your main rival, and having the belief that you should win 8+ every year.

[Pard4Life]

Pard4Life

Its tough when the best you can do is recite ancient history to quell your innate inferioroty. Very sad.
Let us keep it to the last half of the Century.

This rivalry started in 1884. Everything counts.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Boy, you guys really have large chip on your shoulder, huh?

You bet. Years spent watching Lehigh thumb its nose at everyone even when it was not really that good. Now Lehigh flat out stinks and it looks to stay that way for a long, long time. I couldn't be happier.

[RichH2]

Ok, you got me. that post was incomprehensible. Agree that we would all like to win 8+ every year. Rest ???

[Go...gate]

Probably comments on playing Notre Dame, calling Colgate your main rival, and having the belief that you should win 8+ every year.

xconfusedx I never heard anybody from Lehigh say this. Lafayette-Lehigh is a one-game season along the lines of Army-Navy.

[Pard4Life]

xconfusedx I never heard anybody from Lehigh say this. Lafayette-Lehigh is a one-game season along the lines of Army-Navy.

This has been said, at least suggested. Fellow Pards can back me up here.

[RichH2]

All worms turn Pards,you were in the dumpster with DivIII talk, built backup nicely, our cycle ended ,unbeknownst to us ,when Sterrett hired Andy. That also will turn for next year. We'll still beat you this year just for the hell of it. You've already won too many this decade

Also, when did Gate become LU's main rival. Some years they and us were main competitors for PL title. Never would they become the GAME. Gate , LC and BU will always be intense rivals with a long history

[Pard4Life]

All worms turn Pards,you were in the dumpster with DivIII talk, built backup nicely, our cycle ended ,unbeknownst to us ,when Sterrett hired Andy. That also will turn for next year. We'll still beat you this year just for the hell of it. You've already won too many this decade

Also, when did Gate become LU's main rival. Some years they and us were main competitors for PL title. Never would they become the GAME. Gate , LC and BU will always be intense rivals with a long history

At least you have a head on your shoulders vis-a-vis the game. Some of the more clownish elements on your board didn't think that.

Only reason D3 floated around because our President and archaic, troglodyte BOT wants to be like Swarthmore and intellectually pure. They cancelled football during this time.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This has been said, at least suggested. Fellow Pards can back me up here.

Over the years I have heard Lehigh refer to Delaware, Colgate and Villanova as its main rival at various times. It routinely dismisses Lafayette as insignificant, a "scrimmage" and an as an unnecessary drag on its otherwise top-flight schedule; a game it plays only because of alumni and administrative insistence.

Unlike the tongue-in-cheek humor used by Leopard fans, Lehigh fans genuinely posit themselves and that landfill they call a college as indisputably superior to Lafayette in all areas, both athletic and academic. Lehigh fans write with bewidlerment when all others, including Leopard fans, don't wholeheartedly agree. Lehigh fans always expect that it, and only it, is the comparative antecedent to which all other Patriot League institutions are to measured.

So yes, Pard4Life, I completely support you in your statement. And I add, with pride, that Lehigh was my safety school. It was at the bottom of my list when I was accepted there, and there it remains.

[Pard4Life]

I didn't even bother with applying to Lehigh. Isn't Asa Packer a Lafayette reject?

[Bogus Megapardus]

our President and archaic, troglodyte BOT wants to be like Swarthmore and intellectually pure. They canceled football during this time.

Swarthmore alums cant's wait to return for that Homecoming Volleyball match . . . .

[Pard94]

Pard4Life

Its tough when the best you can do is recite ancient history to quell your innate inferioroty. Very sad.
Let us keep it to the last half of the Century.

Ahh...so history is not relevant because, if for no other reason, Lehigh loses that argument. Nor can we go too recent because...well we're 8-1 and you guys are 2-terrible...that doesn't help you. You won last year but you lost the four before that. So what your saying is Lehigh is awesome when you win and your loses don't really count. That sounds like the typical Lehigh mentality.

[Pard94]

Over the years I have heard Lehigh refer to Delaware, Colgate and Villanova as its main rival at various times. It routinely dismisses Lafayette as insignificant, a "scrimmage" and an as an unnecessary drag on its otherwise top-flight schedule; a game it plays only because of alumni and administrative insistence.

Unlike the tongue-in-cheek humor used by Leopard fans, Lehigh fans genuinely posit themselves and that landfill they call a college as indisputably superior to Lafayette in all areas, both athletic and academic. Lehigh fans write with bewidlerment when all others, including Leopard fans, don't wholeheartedly agree. Lehigh fans always expect that it, and only it, is the comparative antecedent to which all other Patriot League institutions are to measured.

So yes, Pard4Life, I completely support you in your statement. And I add, with pride, that Lehigh was my safety school. It was at the bottom of my list when I was accepted there, and there it remains.


Yes. I remember well the days when Lehigh's "Brown and White" didn't stink. Colgate was in fact the only PL opponent worthy of them. And all of the bloviating Lehigh supporters could barely muster up the energy to give Lafayette any real consideration. Watching the fall over in Bethlehem has been a highlight of the last 5 years for me. May they never have another winning season...and even if they don't one of the highlights of the year will be beating them. Whether it be in the lovely confines of luxurious, on-campus, Fisher Stadium or in the dark, muddy dungeon of Goodman.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I didn't even bother with applying to Lehigh. Isn't Asa Packer a Lafayette reject?

He was buddies with Ario Pardee but Pardee discovered that Packer was really a scheming low-life and rejected his admission to Lafayette. Packer then took $500K of his Lehigh Railroad stock on margin and financed his own university out of spite. Pretty soon, though, Packer went broke (because he was a financial nit-wit) and his ill-gotten college nearly went belly up with him. Loans an assurances from Pardee and other distinguished Lafayette alumni kept Lehigh afloat.

[Pard94]

He was buddies with Ario Pardee but Pardee discovered that Packer was really a scheming low-life and rejected his admission to Lafayette. Packer then took $500K of his Lehigh Railroad stock on margin and financed his own university out of spite. Pretty soon, though, Packer went broke (because he was a financial nit-wit) and his ill-gotten college nearly went belly up with him. Loans an assurances from Pardee and other distinguished Lafayette alumni kept Lehigh afloat.

Plus his name was Asa Packer for god's sake.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Plus his name was Asa Packer for god's sake.

"Asa" always is pronounced with a short "A," correct, Pard?

[Go...gate]

Over the years I have heard Lehigh refer to Delaware, Colgate and Villanova as its main rival at various times. It routinely dismisses Lafayette as insignificant, a "scrimmage" and an as an unnecessary drag on its otherwise top-flight schedule; a game it plays only because of alumni and administrative insistence.

Unlike the tongue-in-cheek humor used by Leopard fans, Lehigh fans genuinely posit themselves and that landfill they call a college as indisputably superior to Lafayette in all areas, both athletic and academic. Lehigh fans write with bewidlerment when all others, including Leopard fans, don't wholeheartedly agree. Lehigh fans always expect that it, and only it, is the comparative antecedent to which all other Patriot League institutions are to measured.

So yes, Pard4Life, I completely support you in your statement. And I add, with pride, that Lehigh was my safety school. It was at the bottom of my list when I was accepted there, and there it remains.

God, I'm old. I vividly remember the days of the "Middle Three" with LC, LU and Rutgers, which was a lot of fun.

[Bogus Megapardus]

God, I'm old. I vividly remember the days of the "Middle Three" with LC, LU and Rutgers, which was a lot of fun.

Colgate always had Syracuse too, did it not?

[Franks Tanks]

God, I'm old. I vividly remember the days of the "Middle Three" with LC, LU and Rutgers, which was a lot of fun.

I love when you look back in the record books and it will state "Lafayette and Rutgers were middle 3 co-champs in 1959" (or whatever)

Co-champs in a 3 team conference xlolx

[Go...gate]

Colgate always had Syracuse too, did it not?

Absolutely. The Orangemen were THE rival for Colgate, closely followed by Cornell (the third member of the "Upstate New York Big Three").

Colgate-Syracuse was something akin to Lehigh-Lafayette. Great rivals who also respected each other a lot; one school larger than the other.

Brown was also a big rival (we played them on Thanksgiving every year).

[Go...gate]

I love when you look back in the record books and it will state "Lafayette and Rutgers were middle 3 co-champs in 1959" (or whatever)

Co-champs in a 3 team conference xlolx

It was amazing how important the Middle Three was. My father knew Dr. John Bateman, who was the Rutgers FB Coach in that time, as well as Robert Twitchell, the RU AD. In those days (1950's and 60's), their job was simple: make sure your teams do well against Princeton, Lafayette, Lehigh and Columbia and your job was safe.

[Pard94]

"Asa" always is pronounced with a short "A," correct, Pard?

Short first "a", silent second "a". Spelled phoenetically (ass).

[Sader87]

I would say that Colgate would be HC's greatest rival now (in football) and probably 2nd all-time to BC.

Many would say Harvard, due to proximity...some may even go with Dartmouth (we've played the Big Green more than anyone else.) But through the years, Colgate and HC have always been on pretty equal footing and it has developed into a true rivalry.

It's a game that should be an "end of the year" type game imo.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/opponents.php


http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/holy_cross/opponents_records.php?teamid=749

[Bogus Megapardus]

I would say that Colgate would be HC's greatest rival now (in football) and probably 2nd all-time to BC.

Many would say Harvard, due to proximity...some may even go with Dartmouth (we've played the Big Green more than anyone else.) But through the years, Colgate and HC have always been on pretty equal footing and it has developed into a true rivalry.

It's a game that should be an "end of the year" type game imo.


I think it's a great idea to make Holy Cross/Colgate an "end of the year" game. xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

I go back to the old MAC with Gburg, Delaware also. Mid 60s Gburg was a team. Had a qb named Herb Ruby. No problem tho, LU was an equal opportunity opponent.We lost to everybody with equal panache.
After reading all the Pard posts, it would seem that the reputed Lehigh arrogance, so distasteful to them in us, sits well on their own shoulders.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Short first "a", silent second "a". Spelled phoenetically (ass).

I am working with Photoshop to make a nice "Asa Packer" helmet and side logo for our honorable Lafayette Valley neighbors to enjoy during Rivalry Week.

[Sader87]

I think it's a great idea to make Holy Cross/Colgate an "end of the year" game. xthumbsupx

It's been discussed a lot on the HC board...the problem lies in the "7 team PL schedule." The fly in the ointment is some school is always going to be left holding the bag...eg LU-LC, CU-HC, FU-GU ...Bucknell?

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's been discussed a lot on the HC board...the problem lies in the "7 team PL schedule." The fly in the ointment is some school is always going to be left holding the bag...eg LU-LC, CU-HC, FU-GU ...Bucknell?

Hmmm . . . Can't leave Bucknell out. No way. The Bison's longest rivalry is Lafayette, but I think Colgate and Cornell probably are close. I assume the PL will add a football member once the scholarship approach is resolved next year, but you still can't just "assign" a rivalry to a school.

[ngineer]

This has been said, at least suggested. Fellow Pards can back me up here.

I agree that there were suggestions at times during Laughteryette's "Dark Ages" in the late '90's because of the imbalance that had occured in those times. The suggestions were by many LAUGHTERYETTE alums who I know quite well, having to live in this beautiful burb near Easton. Obviously with the rejuvenation of the LC program, the Rivalry has been resuccitated, and that talk has disappeared. But alot of that talk back then was that the 'pards shouldn't be playing us anymore, and it was coming from College Hill, not South Mountain.xreadx

[blukeys]

I love when you look back in the record books and it will state "Lafayette and Rutgers were middle 3 co-champs in 1959" (or whatever)

Co-champs in a 3 team conference xlolx

By 1959, It was the MAC with Delaware, Rutgers, Temple, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Gettysburg.

[blukeys]

It was amazing how important the Middle Three was. My father knew Dr. John Bateman, who was the Rutgers FB Coach in that time, as well as Robert Twitchell, the RU AD. In those days (1950's and 60's), their job was simple: make sure your teams do well against Princeton, Lafayette, Lehigh and Columbia and your job was safe.

Bateman was a great footbal coach. His quotes and stories about Delaware are also priceless.

[Bogus Megapardus]

By 1959, It was the MAC with Delaware, Rutgers, Temple, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Gettysburg.

Of course I wasn't born yet, but that looks like a pretty good conference. Just add a northern division with Colgate, Syracuse, Holy Cross, Army and Fordham, add scholarships for those without, and there's a juggernaut in the making.

[RichH2]

Bogus

While I date myself , the MAC was fun,even for an LU team that was in the midst of that dreaded "deemphasis". Great rivalries for the time but it was always temporary even in the 62-63 schools were diverging. Gburg, after their run for a couple of years endured some really non competitive years. Could not fund football at even that level. Spooky to look back at that time and see where the schools are now. Damn I do feel those years today.

[blukeys]

Of course I wasn't born yet, but that looks like a pretty good conference. Just add a northern division with Colgate, Syracuse, Holy Cross, Army and Fordham, add scholarships for those without, and there's a juggernaut in the making.

Now you know why Dave Nelson (then the AD at Delaware) was so ticked off at Temple and Rutgers for going "Big Time". Temple especially destroyed the MAC (Middle Atlantic Conference)

Think about this 6 team conference. Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette, Rutgers, Temple. This could have been a possibility had Rutgers and Temple not bailed in the late 60's

[Bogus Megapardus]

Now you know why Dave Nelson (then the AD at Delaware) was so ticked off at Temple and Rutgers for going "Big Time". Temple especially destroyed the MAC (Middle Atlantic Conference)

Think about this 6 team conference. Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette, Rutgers, Temple. This could have been a possibility had Rutgers and Temple not bailed in the late 60's

It looks like it really didn't pay off for Temple - Delaware and Nova would beat Temple 7 games out of 10 today and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pards could beat them this year as well. As an FCS Conference it would compare equally with the current CAA, and look at the geography - an hour or less in just about every direction. Great for players and fans.

[RichH2]

Would be a great conference. Certainly wouldn't be looking at CAA as the super conference.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It looks like it really didn't pay off for Temple - Delaware and Nova would beat Temple 7 games out of 10 today and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pards could beat them this year as well. As an FCS Conference it would compare equally with the current CAA, and look at the geography - an hour or less in just about every direction. Great for players and fans.


No way would Lafayette beat Temple this year. Temple is at another level than the 'Pards are. It's not even close.

I highly doubt Delaware would either although you'll have a better idea after they play Navy this week. Villanova played out of their minds and benefited from some horrible QB mistakes in the first game. I would love another crack at the 'Cats this year. I think they're the only FCS team that could/would beat us this year because of the rivalry nature.

[Sader87]

When did both Rutgers and Temple leave the MAC and go D1? Was the MAC a hoop conference as well? I remember the ECC (with some of the same schools) as a kid in hoops.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When did both Rutgers and Temple leave the MAC and go D1? Was the MAC a hoop conference as well? I remember the ECC (with some of the same schools) as a kid in hoops.

My guess is Temple pulled out of the MAC in 1970. Our schedule changed quite a bit from '69 to '70. This isn't 100% but rather an educated guess using cfbdatawarehouse. If it wasn't 1970 is was right around that time period.

[blukeys]

When did both Rutgers and Temple leave the MAC and go D1? Was the MAC a hoop conference as well? I remember the ECC (with some of the same schools) as a kid in hoops.

Rutgers left the MAC at the end of the 60's. Delaware's last game with Rutgers was in 1969.

The MAC was still viable once Rutgers left but that was not the case after Temple announced they were going 'big time' (The Temple term)
Temple announced their 'big time' aspirations also at the end of the 60's. They hired Wayne Hardin (the Navy coach when Roger Staubach played) for the 1970 season and by the Mid 70's Temple was playing Penn State, Pitt etc.



The MAC was not a basketball conference.

[RichH2]

I think MAC officially died in 69 Rutgers left I think in 67 or announced they were leaving that year. I still remember our last game with Rutgers. A sad day but handled with a lot of class by Rutgers.

[ngineer]

I think MAC officially died in 69 Rutgers left I think in 67 or announced they were leaving that year. I still remember our last game with Rutgers. A sad day but handled with a lot of class by Rutgers.

Twas in 1977, at Rutgers and a 20-0 loss. Ironically, the year of Lehigh's National Championship. Twas also a shame, as the series had been fairly competitive with the schools going 5-5 over the last ten games. If the PL goes scholly, that is one series that could possibly be rejuvenated on a periodic basis.

FWIW, checked the media guide, and the last game between Lehigh and Temple was 1956, with Lehigh winning 21-0. Don't know why the series with Temple ended much sooner than the end of the MAC. Lehigh was in the MAC for basketball up until the early 70's when the ECC was created.

[RichH2]

I still have the game program from the game with Rutgers. As a Rutgers alum opined that day , it was a bittersweet ending but impossible to avoid. Heck, I just watched Rutgers dismantle USF

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

As long as Temple is in the MAC we should play 1 local FCS team a year. Delaware would bring a big contigent to the link and i have to think Lehigh and Lafayette would travel well too.

If the next coach can build upon what Golden done, a return to the Big East seems like the schools ultimate goal. We have to continue to win and create excitement for that to happen. We shouldn't forget our roots either. Hopefully Rutgers would have our back this time if we ever get that chance. We deserved the boot but i think if we can keep pushing forward we can be competitive in the BE. We really don't have much of a long term future in the MAC. We have almost nothing in common with the schools. Buffalo is the closest thing to a peer institution for Temple. Academic wise it's Miami(OH) and Ohio at the head of the class with us and Buffalo not far behind. Behind that it's a mess with CMU being the best of the rest.

[ngineer]

Well, why don't you check the College Football HOF members, National Championships, and games in Yankee Stadium, Polo Grounds, and Franklin Field to start? Then there are those "helmet" and "huddle" thingys. Not to mention wins over you.Yes very funny.

I wasn't talking mythology. National Championship? Lehigh 1 Lafayette 0. And how many wins has Lafayette achieved in NCAA playoff history? Lehigh 7 Lafayette 0. Lehigh twice in NCAA Championship Finals. There are half a dozen schools who claim to have created the 'first' huddle and helmet. Just like Lehigh's claim of inventing the "Flying Wedge" or "V Trick". I'll grant you a few more HOFs, but we're talking about teams. Wins? okay a .527 average over the past 125 years, but does that give one more 'tradition'? You complain about Lafayette's 'Dark Ages' in the mid-late '90's, hell, we had a three decades of Dark Ages (1930-46 and 1962-70) and have survived! I will concede the spotted ones had a better 'first 60 years' of football, but Lehigh takes the last 60 with ease...

[blukeys]

Twas in 1977, at Rutgers and a 20-0 loss. Ironically, the year of Lehigh's National Championship. Twas also a shame, as the series had been fairly competitive with the schools going 5-5 over the last ten games. If the PL goes scholly, that is one series that could possibly be rejuvenated on a periodic basis.

FWIW, checked the media guide, and the last game between Lehigh and Temple was 1956, with Lehigh winning 21-0. Don't know why the series with Temple ended much sooner than the end of the MAC. Lehigh was in the MAC for basketball up until the early 70's when the ECC was created.

Not doubting you Nick but this is truly weird. The MAC had championships and rankings all through the 60's. How Rutgers and Lehigh could avoid each other all those years is perplexing.

[Sader87]

Not doubting you Nick but this is truly weird. The MAC had championships and rankings all through the 60's. How Rutgers and Lehigh could avoid each other all those years is perplexing.

They played throughout the 60's.




http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/lehigh/opponents_records.php?teamid=2763

[ngineer]

Not doubting you Nick but this is truly weird. The MAC had championships and rankings all through the 60's. How Rutgers and Lehigh could avoid each other all those years is perplexing.

No, I was referring to Temple/Lehigh. Last game was 1956. We played Rutgers periodically up until 1977.

[RichH2]

I recall that there was some issue between Leckonby and Temple in the 50s. When I got to LU you would never know they were in the same conference. Being from NY, I knew nothing except LU had a good program and academics( who knew about "deemphasis"). One of the coaches told us that it would be a cold day in Hell before LU ever played Temple again. Never found outwhat caused it.

[Pard94]

As the kids say today...OMG! This thread went from fun to excrutiatingly boring in record time! Are we really talking about Temple players from the fifties?? Really?

[Bogus Megapardus]

If Temple is aiming to re-joining the Big East, will there be a Big East to rejoin? I know it's not a popular notion amongst students and alumni, but I think Temple makes a much better top FCS team than it does a middle-of-the road BCS team. Temple hosting Delaware, Villanova or Lehigh at the Linc would draw more fans and local media interest than Ball State or Buffalo. I think one could create a really nice conference here.

Question: Individual Division I colleges are designated FCS or BCS. But must the entire conference hold one designation or the other, or could a conference mix BCS and FCS schools, with only the FCS schools being eligible for the FCS playoffs?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If Temple is aiming to re-joining the Big East, will there be a Big East to rejoin? I know it's not a popular notion amongst students and alumni, but I think Temple makes a much better top FCS team than it does a middle-of-the road BCS team. Temple hosting Delaware, Villanova or Lehigh at the Linc would draw more fans and local media interest than Ball State or Buffalo. I think one could create a really nice conference here.

Question: Individual Division I colleges are designated FCS or BCS. But must the entire conference hold one designation or the other, or could a conference mix BCS and FCS schools, with only the FCS schools being eligible for the FCS playoffs?


Temple will not drop down to FCS unless they absolutely have to. I agree that it would create some interest because a lot of our peer schools play in the CAA/A-10but it's not going to happen. We would not be playing at the Linc if we were FCS. The Eagles would never let it happen.

I think there will be a Big East if the BE wants there to be. Temple is a viable option to join the conference if we take care of the things we need to. The biggest thing that will face Temple is their future at the Linc. Unless we do get in to the BE we will almost certaintly get the boot for the 2015 season. The Eagles who now control almost all of the say of the stadium do not want us there tearing up the field while bringing in next to nothing. If we were accepted back in to a BCS conference i think we would be allowed to stay. There would be enough cause for the city and the state to get behind as us at the point. However, if that does not happen then it will get interesting.

There's been talk, more so recently, of building an on-campus stadium. I think given how much Temple has spread out in our N. Philly hamlet it is possible to build a 25-30k seat facility. Ultimately it is our goal to get a stadium on campus. How it comes about is another issue. The next 2-3 years will tell a lot. If we keep winning i think we will get back in to the BE. If that happens then the stadium situation will take care of itself. However, if we fall back to our dreadful past anything is possible. At that point the only way we survive though will be to find another place to play.

Our future is not in the MAC either. I really don't think Temple cares to have an association with Ball State and Western Michigan. We have nothing in common with those schools. If Buffalo keeps moving forward i think we could team up with them to join the BE. They're the only school in the MAC that we can relate to in any way imo. Syracuse might have something to say about Buffalo though.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Temple will not drop down to FCS unless they absolutely have to. I agree that it would create some interest because a lot of our peer schools play in the CAA/A-10but it's not going to happen. We would not be playing at the Linc if we were FCS. The Eagles would never let it happen.

There's been talk, more so recently, of building an on-campus stadium.

Hah! With union labor in Philadelphia? An apprentice bolt-tightener makes twice that of a tenured professor. The university would have to spend a fortune.
It would be great for Temple, though. Where would you be able to shoe-horn in a 25,000 seat stadium in North Philly that has Septa and I-95 access?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Hah! With union labor in Philadelphia? An apprentice bolt-tightener makes twice that of a tenured professor. The university would have to spend a fortune.
It would be great for Temple, though. Where would you be able to shoe-horn in a 25,000 seat stadium in North Philly that has Septa and I-95 access?

The cost could be worked out to some extent. Temple has just built a brand new business school and brought the Tyler School of Art on campus. There's also been other numerous improvements on campus in the past 10 years. If Temple wants a stadium it will build one.

There is land between 15th and 16th that could be used. Otherwise, Temple has been clearing out blocks of row homes in recent years and i wouldn't be surprised if that continues to happen.

Fox School of B&M

http://images.tmcnet.com/tmc/misc/article-images/Image/alter%20hall.png

Tyler School of Art

http://chronicle.com/images/photos/biz/blogPost/5381_steps400x261.jpg

[Go...gate]

As the kids say today...OMG! This thread went from fun to excrutiatingly boring in record time! Are we really talking about Temple players from the fifties?? Really?

There was football before the 1990's....

[Pard94]

There was football before the 1990's....


Yes...but Temple football??? From the fifties? I've had root canals that were more entertaining.

[RichH2]

When did it become our job to entertain you 94 ?xrolleyesx There are plenty of other threads and boards for some of your infamous pusillanimous postsxnonox.

Doncha just love alliterationxnodx

[Bogus Megapardus]

I want to know why we're still committing posts to a thread entitled, "Lehigh shows it can play" when the contrary now been demonstrated conclusively. From now on any thread referring, even tangentially, to the oxymoron, "Lehigh football" ought to be relegated to the "Non-Sports" section of AGS.

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolx

Bogus, I wish to hell you weren't so funny. I'm supposed to be p*ssed at you for the next week and a half. Enuf ,no more humor, just sarcasm and mean spirited shots at each other's schools etc. ( SEE , 94 posts any thread )xnonox

[Go...gate]

Yes...but Temple football??? From the fifties? I've had root canals that were more entertaining.

Part of what makes football a great game is its history.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Part of what makes football a great game is its history.

Without history I wouldn't have license to skewer Lehigh incessantly with no articulable reason other than the fact that we played the most, the longest. That makes history good.

[Pard94]

When did it become our job to entertain you 94 ?xrolleyesx There are plenty of other threads and boards for some of your infamous pusillanimous postsxnonox.

Doncha just love alliterationxnodx

hmm...huh? what? (as I wipe the drool from my face and keyboard). Sorry I fell asleep. Were you talking to me?

[hawkineer]

This Lehigh team is full of underclassmen, don't forget. Next year could be another story altogether. The offense returns 10 of 11 starters next season. Holy Cross has reached the pinnacle this year with a lot of experience. That's why they have been so succesful this year. Colgate has a lot coming back, but I think Lehigh SHOULD BE in excellent good shape next year. A season of experience can make all the difference in the world in football. Will they be hungry after this season's experiences? I think so!

Un friggin' believable! We have found someone who has bought into Andy's B.S. Arrrrrrgh! 6-5, 5-6. 5-6, 3-8 or 2-9. Yeah, he's gonna win next year. This blind squirrel isn't gonna find any acorns.xnonox

[RichH2]

Hawkineer,

Not saying Coen will be able to turn them into winners but there will be as many as 18 starters coming back. A competent HC can win with these kids. Andy if not a good HC is an excellent recruiter.

[Pard94]

Hawkineer,

Not saying Coen will be able to turn them into winners but there will be as many as 18 starters coming back. A competent HC can win with these kids. Andy if not a good HC is an excellent recruiter.

At some point recruits are going to say, "um..yeah...get out of my living room".

[Bogus Megapardus]

At some point recruits are going to say, "um..yeah...get out of my living room".

That's principally because Coen will be there, not recruiting, but selling Tupperware after Lehigh cancels its football program.

[Pard94]

That's principally because Coen will be there, not recruiting, but selling Tupperware after Lehigh cancels its football program.

Seals the fresh in you know.

[ngineer]

That's principally because Coen will be there, not recruiting, but selling Tupperware after Lehigh cancels its football program.

Oh you guys wouldn't let us do that, just like we helped intervene when your idioit president tried to have you go D-III.;)

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh you guys wouldn't let us do that, just like we helped intervene when your idioit president tried to have you go D-III.;)

Fortunately he's selling Tupperware himself right now.

[Pard94]

Oh you guys wouldn't let us do that, just like we helped intervene when your idioit president tried to have you go D-III.;)

Yes. Thank you Lehigh for saving our football program.xrolleyesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Yes. Thank you Lehigh for saving our football program.xrolleyesx

xlolxxrotatehxxnodx

[carney2]

Die, thread, DIE!

[RichH2]

Where are your magical powers Carneyxrolleyesx Used to be such words from you would shrivel the object of your ire.:)
Bogus and 94 just cant let it go, too many easy targets:p

Good luck today

[ngineer]

Yes. Thank you Lehigh for saving our football program.xrolleyesx

Oh, there was a lot of back channel assistance and contacting going on when your prez tried to create Swarthmore North.xnodx

[Go...gate]

Looks like Lehigh played pretty well today.

[ngineer]

Looks like Lehigh played pretty well today.

Actually a quite sloppy game. Obviously wet conditions helped, but three turnovers literally handed the Rams 21 points. Offense was sporadic as our brain dead OC continues to mess with any rhythm that gets developed. I think he's up there in the box playing with an X-Box at times.

Defense was intense. Some very sloppy tackling contributed to some big FU gains. PL referees are horrible. Both teams victimized by dumbfounding calls today. I don't even want to get started.

But considering the adversity, these kids have not quit and ARE on a mission to finish the season on a high note....

[Go...gate]

Actually a quite sloppy game. Obviously wet conditions helped, but three turnovers literally handed the Rams 21 points. Offense was sporadic as our brain dead OC continues to mess with any rhythm that gets developed. I think he's up there in the box playing with an X-Box at times.

Defense was intense. Some very sloppy tackling contributed to some big FU gains. PL referees are horrible. Both teams victimized by dumbfounding calls today. I don't even want to get started.

But considering the adversity, these kids have not quit and ARE on a mission to finish the season on a high note....

And what might that high note be??? :D

[Bogus Megapardus]

And what might that high note be??? :D

It will be an F-flat over high C. You know, the deafening shriek that a whining ninny makes when his victor has got him by the n*ts.

xwhistlex

[RichH2]

quite an admission Bogus, it seems you guys think only Pards have n*ts. Y'all so familiar with playing with them I think

[Bogus Megapardus]

quite an admission Bogus, it seems you guys think only Pards have n*ts. Y'all so familiar with playing with them I think

Weak, H2. Very weak. You can do much better than that. But you could be right in one aspect - Leopards have b*lls. I'm pretty sure pigeons don't. But they do lay eggs . . .

Plus you missed the whole "F-flat" thing. Look at a piano.

[ngineer]

It will be an F-flat over high C. You know, the deafening shriek that a whining ninny makes when his victor has got him by the n*ts.

xwhistlex

Still ringing in your ears from last year , or yesterday? Frank will probably go out and buy all his players spectacles so they can focus this week. But the 'pards will be like the optomitrist who backed into the meatgrinder and made a spectacle of himself. xnodx

[RichH2]

Sorry for the poor comeback, post Church but pre coffee. I think all that catholic charity stuff interfered with my sarcasm bone

[Gater]

Here's a question:
If you are a Lehigh fan do you want your team to beat Lafayette?

A lose means you finish 3-8, which makes you 13-20 for the past three years and might mean a new coach. If you win, you end up 14-19 over three years with "something to build on" and Coen stays.

[dawwggboy]

Weak, H2. Very weak. You can do much better than that. But you could be right in one aspect - Leopards have b*lls. I'm pretty sure pigeons don't. But they do lay eggs . . .

Plus you missed the whole "F-flat" thing. Look at a piano.

The spotted weenies from "LaughEyette" will be eaten by the ravenous soaring HAWKS. YUM YUM

[dawwggboy]

Actually a quite sloppy game. Obviously wet conditions helped, but three turnovers literally handed the Rams 21 points. Offense was sporadic as our brain dead OC continues to mess with any rhythm that gets developed. I think he's up there in the box playing with an X-Box at times.

Defense was intense. Some very sloppy tackling contributed to some big FU gains. PL referees are horrible. Both teams victimized by dumbfounding calls today. I don't even want to get started.

But considering the adversity, these kids have not quit and ARE on a mission to finish the season on a high note....

From my pew AMEN brother AMEN