Georgia State to CAA North (and other assorted CAA news)

[seattlespider]

Sorry if this has been posted; I did a search and didn't see anything. CAA commissioner Tom Yeager had some interesting things to say regarding the future of the CAA.


This season, CAA football includes 12 members. However, Old Dominion (coached by former UMaine player and coach Bobby Wilder) begins league play in 2011 and Georgia State will follow in 2012.

That will swell the CAA ranks to 14 teams stretching from Orono to Atlanta, Ga.

"I don't think anybody thinks 14 teams is a magic number, but it is what it is," said CAA commissioner Tom Yeager.

"When you look at the benefits because of the profile that we've been able to carve out here recently, they far outweigh, at least for the time being, whatever the drawbacks are," he added. "Are we at the absolute limit? Yeah."


After the addition of Georgia State, there will be changes. Yeager said the league's southernmost school would be placed in the North Division. And the Panthers will play four games against teams in each division.

That was a concession to South teams that did not want to relocate to the North. It also will lead to some teams not playing a geographic or traditional rival as the schedule rotates every two years.

"Some of the alignment things that look to be in the future are a little skewed," Cosgrove said of the current plan.

And the most shocking?


What may eventually force the CAA's hand is continued expansion. There are four CAA schools that do not sponsor football, but some appear to have the means to do so.

When the CAA took on football, it guaranteed all its schools a spot in the league.

"They're going to have to demonstrate they're ready to play with everybody else, then they'd be guaranteed membership," Yeager said.

If the CAA ever voted to limit participation to full members, UMaine and the Northeast schools would have options. Current CAA football members UMass, UNH, URI, Villanova and Richmond also would be "homeless" for football but could band together.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/136838107

[GannonFan]

Oh man, how long till that Lehigh guy chimes in with the immiment breakup of the CAA? Can we just cut and paste from that thread a few months ago (or going back further the several before that) to save time??? xrotatehxxrotatehxxrotatehx

[ccd494]

Oh, perfect. Orono to Atlanta isn't a ridiculous roadtrip or anything. Especially since Delta is pulling out of the Bangor airport.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Does that mean ALL teams will play 4 north and 4 south each year?

[seattlespider]

Does that mean ALL teams will play 4 north and 4 south each year?

That wasn't really clear from the article. Of course, as long as UR plays JMU/W&M/ODU, I don't really care either way.

[tribe_pride]

GSU is just using the CAA as a temporary stop to FBS.

[ccd494]

Yeah I just read the CAA Zone discussion about it. I sincerely doubt that this will come to pass. Either URI or NU will be gone by then, or something else will happen. Either way, Maine doesn't have to do an every other year trip to GSU.

[JMUNJ08]

That wasn't really clear from the article. Of course, as long as UR plays JMU/W&M/ODU, I don't really care either way.

"It also will lead to some teams not playing a geographic or traditional rival as the schedule rotates every two years."

Sounds like we will be missing out on some good games every few years....

[MplsBison]

What other CAA schools could start football, realistically?

VCU - Big enough enrollment, decent sized metro area, where would they play? Old Richmond stadium?

GMU - Obviously big enough, where would they play? RFK? FedEx?

UNC-W - Have already look at adding football.

Drexel - Least likely, but still, why not? Play at the Linc? Or Penn Stadium? Or where else?

[Dblue]

GSU is just using the CAA as a temporary stop to FBS.

If they do that's cool by me, even though I was looking forward to trips to the Georgia Dome. But, as referred to as in an earlier thread on AGS there is only one GSU, how about using GSt for our new member.

[Go...gate]

Yeah I just read the CAA Zone discussion about it. I sincerely doubt that this will come to pass. Either URI or NU will be gone by then, or something else will happen. Either way, Maine doesn't have to do an every other year trip to GSU.

OK, I'll bite. Where will they go? NEC? Patriot? Pioneer? a new FCS eastern conference?

[tribe_pride]

I think he meant that one of those 2 might go bye-bye.

[Jackman]

OK, I'll bite. Where will they go? NEC? Patriot? Pioneer? a new FCS eastern conference?

There's talk on the URI board about relocating to the NEC, but it's mostly just one fan doing the talking and I don't think the administration thinks that way. NU though would love to replace Fordham in the Patriot League if they don't approve scholarships, and are always a threat to drop football entirely.

[soccerguy315]

what is the point of having divisions if you don't play everyone in your division?

[Dblue]

what is the point of having divisions if you don't play everyone in your division?

You know (wink wink nudge nudge), double digit teams in 2010 playoffs.:D
Monty Python rules.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

You know (wink wink nudge nudge), double digit teams in 2010 playoffs.:D
Monty Python rules.

say no more

[ccd494]

There's talk on the URI board about relocating to the NEC, but it's mostly just one fan doing the talking and I don't think the administration thinks that way. NU though would love to replace Fordham in the Patriot League if they don't approve scholarships, and are always a threat to drop football entirely.

Yes, as this gentleman said.

[Jackman]

Does that mean ALL teams will play 4 north and 4 south each year?

No, just Georgia State. They're not really going to be in either the North or the South division, they're just being listed as part of the North to balance out the standings at 7 each. It's easier to understand if you imagine them by themselves in a third division. Judging from the quotes in the article, here's what each schedule will look like:

Georgia State: Play 4 of 6 North and 4 of 7 South every year.
North teams: Play 5 of 5 other North and 2 of 7 South every year + each North plays GSU 2 out of 3 years and plays 1 additional South on the 3rd year.
South teams: Play 5 of 6 other South and 2 of 6 North every year + each South plays GSU 4 out of 7 years and plays 1 additional South on the 5th, 6th and 7th years.

So 4 out of 7 South teams will miss a game against one other South team every year. That's the "missed rivalry games" Yeager is talking about. They'll probably rotate which South opponent is missed, so it will take about 11 years to miss the same opponent twice (if GSU is even still around 11 years later).

Clear as mud?

Does anyone besides the CAA heads think this is a good idea?

[93henfan]

Does anyone besides the CAA heads think this is a good idea?

Nope.

There's obviously got to be a breakup down the road, somewhere between Hempstead and the Main Line.

[WestCoastAggie]

Seems to me that the CAA is going to an 8 game mandate. It makes little sense for only Georgia State to play 8 CAA games.

BTW: Villanova should be in the CAA North Anyways.

[4th and What?]

Oh, perfect. Orono to Atlanta isn't a ridiculous roadtrip or anything. Especially since Delta is pulling out of the Bangor airport.

A roadtrip once every 4 years.....and it doesn't look like people are too convinced this setup is going to last more than 4 years if that.....so you're looking at 1 road trip to GA.... You are already flying to UR/JMU/W&M/Towson/and now ODU once every 4 years as well, no? And once you're in a plane, what does it matter how far it is....

[paward]

Let's add it all up:

Scholarships
Advertisement to get UGA and GA Tech fanbase
Playing and paying for the dome
Airline travel fees

Equal: Working in the RED for years

[bostonspider]

I do not like this at all. Just put Towson in the North and be done with it. Or tell GaSt. that unless they commit to at least 5 years in the league to go it as an independent until they move to FBS.

[UNHWildCats]

That wasn't really clear from the article. Of course, as long as UR plays JMU/W&M/ODU, I don't really care either way.

To me I think this bit makes it clear that each team will play 4 and 4.


That was a concession to South teams that did not want to relocate to the North. It also will lead to some teams not playing a geographic or traditional rival as the schedule rotates every two years.

[MacThor]

Yes - move Towson or Villanova to the North. JMU-Towson rivalry week made no sense anyway...let JMU's new rival be ODU.

And this could be read to mean they'll disrupt the "oldest rivalry in the South" just to appease GSU?

I wonder what happens when VCU decides to put their 41-year undefeated streak on the line.

[UNHWildCats]

Seems to me that the CAA is going to an 8 game mandate. It makes little sense for only Georgia State to play 8 CAA games.

BTW: Villanova should be in the CAA North Anyways.
The CAA already plays 8 games?

5 in own division 3 in opposite division.

[tribe_pride]

Yes - move Towson or Villanova to the North. JMU-Towson rivalry week made no sense anyway...let JMU's new rival be ODU.

And this could be read to mean they'll disrupt the "oldest rivalry in the South" just to appease GSU?

I wonder what happens when VCU decides to put their 41-year undefeated streak on the line.

We can do what Delaware & Maine (I think) did and schedule each other as a non-conference game

[bostonspider]

And you know that W&M and UR will do that if they have to...

[Jackman]

Just break the CAA up into 3 divisions. It's not that complicated. Someone in the CAA South is being difficult about this.

[phillyAPP]

And you know that W&M and UR will do that if they have to...

I am waiting ...... WHAT !!!xlolx

[phillyAPP]

Just break the CAA up into 3 divisions. It's not that complicated. Someone in the CAA South is being difficult about this.

Thats the ticket ... they start their own SUB-Division....have their own Bowl games...sign their own TV deal.........screw the NCAA !!!!!!!

I LOVE THE IDEA........ I want APP in the deal... How much does it cost? We have a new stadium !!!xthumbsupx

[UNHWildCats]

Just break the CAA up into 3 divisions. It's not that complicated. Someone in the CAA South is being difficult about this.


North
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

Central
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
Villanova


South
Georgia State
Richmond
James Madison
Old Dominion
William & Mary

I would think you need to add another team to even the divisions out? Albany to the Central division? Then the teams can play a 4-2-2- schedule rotation.

[blur2005]

Just break the CAA up into 3 divisions. It's not that complicated. Someone in the CAA South is being difficult about this.
If the league can get one more school, it could have three divisions of five teams. This would be odd but there is precedent: Conference USA had the Red, White, and Blue divisions at some point in basketball IIRC.

[Old Cage]

That's a way to keep the North schools interested in preserving the league.

I wonder if it could be set up so that the three division winners would be ranked 1-2-3 for playoff selection ahead of any second place division finishers. Then the divisions would mean something.

[SpiderInTheMixingBowl]

If they wanted to add a 15th team, isn't Charlotte adding FCS football in the near future?

[Jackman]

North
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

Central
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
Villanova


South
Georgia State
Richmond
James Madison
Old Dominion
William & Mary

I would think you need to add another team to even the divisions out? Albany to the Central division? Then the teams can play a 4-2-2- schedule rotation.

That's not strictly necessary. Just have 2 Centrals play 1 extra North, and 2 Centrals play an extra South, rotating which 2 get the North and which 2 get the South every year. Basically what the NFL used to do. With division championships being meaningless in FCS (no conference championship games), it doesn't matter that one has fewer members.

[MacThor]

I like the three division idea, or the CAA "orphans" going off and restarting the Yankee conference.

UR, UNH, UMass, Villanova, Maine and URI is a good start for a conference.

[Old Cage]

I love the YANCON! Here's Vermont's comeback:

http://www.uvmfootball.com/


xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

If the CAA ever voted to limit participation to full members, UMaine and the Northeast schools would have options. Current CAA football members UMass, UNH, URI, Villanova and Richmond also would be "homeless" for football but could band together.
Oh henfannnnn. xwhistlex

[Monarch Nation]

GSU is just using the CAA as a temporary stop to FBS.

I wouldn't quote that as scripture. GaState is having money problems as evidenced by the inability to begin construction on an already delayed practice facility. Now that the Falcons want a new stadium, the Ga Dome may not be available for them to use. Not having a practice facility and not having a stadium could derail the whole thing.

[aust42]

It's ridiculous to have a 14 team league at the FCS level, you'll never have a true league champion. Either break it up, with two auto bids going to the North and South winner, or the non-members can go for Yankee Conference II.

[henfan]

89, how could I disappoint you?

Of course, the columnist you quote is completely incorrect in his assumption that the 'Colonial Athletic Association' has the ability to limit participation of any member in the affiliation known as the 'CAA Football' league. There is no such thing as affiliate members of CAA Football. The two entities are entirely separate; one doesn't govern the other. In the words of Casey Stengel, "You can look it up."
http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&KEY=&ATCLID=299298

It's very difficult in the current D-I/economic environment to start single-sport conferences. Not only is it an expensive proposition but it's difficult to pull off from the D-I governance standpoint.

The revival of the Yankee Conference is extremely unlikely and, at this point, unnecessary. However, an exisiting D-I conference, if it was worth their while, could take on the responsibility of administering and/or sponsoring a new FB conference years down the road. There needs to be real practical impetus for teams to voluntarily leave what is arguably the strongest FCS conference for something unknown.

[henfan]

It's ridiculous to have a 14 team league at the FCS level, you'll never have a true league champion.

No, it really isn't. If deciding who the "true league champion" (assuming you mean a school who wins the most games through round robin play or conference champ game?) mattered above all else to the CAA and its member schools, I'm sure you'd have a point. It doesn't. I'm sure many more of us prefer a messy but stronger CAA, loaded with terrific rivalries and great conference play week in and week out.

But, hey, if league championships are your bag, your interest might be best served following the Ivy League, the SWAC or FBS leagues with conference championship games. At least you can sleep well at night knowing who your "true league champion" is.;)

[JMUNJ08]

No, it really isn't. If deciding who the "true league champion" (assuming you mean a school who wins the most games through round robin play or conference champ game?) mattered above all else to the CAA and its member schools, I'm sure you'd have a point. It doesn't. I'm sure many more of us prefer a messy but stronger CAA, loaded with terrific rivalries and great conference play week in and week out.


How do you know it doesn't? Only 1 team a year comes away the National Champion. A CAA conference champ is a huge thing to hang your hat on with how tough our league is. I can't imagine a 8-0 JMU, UNH and UD (switch out the schools if you must) teams in CAA play and NOT play each other. Don't you think they would like to be a league champ?

The problem is with such a large league (largest at any level with 14 I believe) those terrific rivalries will have years where they don't happen. A year without one of UR/W&M/UD would not be as exciting for JMU fans.

Ultimately, a year or 2 at 14 teams will be it anyways. The break-up will occur

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Of course, the columnist you quote is completely incorrect in his assumption that the 'Colonial Athletic Association' has the ability to limit participation of any member in the affiliation known as the 'CAA Football' league. There is no such thing as affiliate members of CAA Football....

Because "CAA Football" is its own "conference" with all members being "equal". Of course, if you think the interests of UMass are equal to those of, say JMU in CAA Football - please. xrolleyesx


The revival of the Yankee Conference is extremely unlikely and, at this point, unnecessary.

xconfusedx


"I don't think anybody thinks 14 teams is a magic number, but it is what it is," said CAA commissioner Tom Yeager.

"When you look at the benefits because of the profile that we've been able to carve out here recently, they far outweigh, at least for the time being, whatever the drawbacks are," he added. "Are we at the absolute limit? Yeah."

So you're trying to say that for a 14 team CAA - with a weird arrangement for Georgia State in the North that makes "equal" members UMass, UNH and Maine equally pissed off - it's "unnecessary" to do anything? (Oh wait, UMass, UNH and Maine are "equal" to CAA full-sport members, in the single-sport conference "CAA football", so it's OK.)

Reading your post, it sounds like everything's hunky-dory in CAA land. Unless, of course, you read the quote from your own commissioner... xrolleyesx

And, as previously stated, that's assuming UNCC, VCU, and others don't wish to start up football, either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

North
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

Central
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
Villanova


South
Georgia State
Richmond
James Madison
Old Dominion
William & Mary

I would think you need to add another team to even the divisions out? Albany to the Central division? Then the teams can play a 4-2-2- schedule rotation.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it: this will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, happen. Breaking into three divisions serves nobody. Much more likely Northeastern and Hofstra are booted out and Delaware and Villanova are relocated to CAA North.

North
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Delaware
Villanova

South
Towson
Georgia State
Richmond
James Madison
Old Dominion
William & Mary

[henfan]

How do you know it doesn't? Only 1 team a year comes away the National Champion. A CAA conference champ is a huge thing to hang your hat on with how tough our league is. I can't imagine a 8-0 JMU, UNH and UD (switch out the schools if you must) teams in CAA play and NOT play each other. Don't you think they would like to be a league champ?

The problem is with such a large league (largest at any level with 14 I believe) those terrific rivalries will have years where they don't happen. A year without one of UR/W&M/UD would not be as exciting for JMU fans.

Ultimately, a year or 2 at 14 teams will be it anyways. The break-up will occur

Well, the CAA FB Manual only discusses conference champion in terms of the formula for determining the automatic qualifier for the FCS playoffs. Draw your own conclusion about the relative importance of the champion designation.

We've covered this ground before but perhaps you missed it. I'll restate. Even in years when the former Yankee Conferences had round-robin play and even before the advent of NCAA playoffs, there had often been conference co-champions. In other words, the conference wasn't able to determine a single champion by on-the-field play. As was the case in the past, CAA teams can still lay claim to conference championships or co-championships, the players get the rings, all of that. The conference champ/co-champ bragging rights have never gone away and likely never will.

xlolxPardon me for chuckling but it's just ironic reading a JMU fan long for a round robin schedule. You do realize that JMU's admission into the Yankee is what signaled the end of decades of conference round robin play? I'm sure you're not aware of the history.xlolx

[henfan]

Of course, if you think the interests of UMass are equal to those of, say JMU in CAA Football - please...

So you're trying to say that for a 14 team CAA - with a weird arrangement for Georgia State in the North that makes "equal" members UMass, UNH and Maine equally pissed off - it's "unnecessary" to do anything?

How is UMass, for example, not an equal member of CAA Football? As a founding member of the conference, they seem well positioned to protect their own interests. Do they not have the same approval and veto power regarding FB membership issues as, say, JMU? You'll need to explain.

What insight do you have that confirms that UMass, UNH and UMaine are "pissed" that GSU will be placed in their division? Like all other membership issues, 3/4 of the voting membership would have had to have approved this.

I personally don't think moving GSU to the North is a great, idea but what the heck do I know? It's the arrangement the conference made collectively. None of us understands what the conference had in mind in arriving at the decision, nor do we know the deliberation process behind it. If it doesn't work out, they'll make adjustments. The situation isn't perfect but why assume there's animosity?

[bostonspider]

Well UNCC is not in the CAA for any sports so if they add football, it is not like they have to join. As to the other CAA non football schools, they have a window in which they are allowed automatic entry into the CAA Football conference, but it is not for too much longer. I cannot see VCU or UNCW or Drexel starting a football team in the next 5 years. GMU would be the only school that I think would be serious about starting a team, and they most definitely have stadium issues. If they had teamed up with DC United to build a stadium some where in NoVa, then I would be more optimistic about them. I have a feeling that GaSt. will move "up" relatively quickly, and likely either URI or Northeastern will move "down".

[Jackman]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it: this will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, happen. Breaking into three divisions serves nobody. Much more likely Northeastern and Hofstra are booted out and Delaware and Villanova are relocated to CAA North.

Why in the world would you say that? There is no chance anybody will be booted out, let alone full CAA members. It would take 10 member votes to expel someone. Members might leave voluntarily, but that's it.

Three divisions would work perfectly. Whether it's 3 divisions or 2 divisions or 7 divisions, it's all just an elaborate scheduling agreement, because conference divisions are meaningless in FCS. Nobody hangs banners for winning the CAA North. It's just a way to fill the schedule in a manner weighted toward regional opponents, while combining resources to maximize media exposure and reduce per member administrative costs. The CAA has about as much reason to split in half as the NFL does to break into two leagues and compete against itself.

[henfan]

Bostonspider, the conference apparently voted to extend the timeframe for Colonial Athletic Association schools to join CAA Football. The new date is July 1, 2017.

I agree with you that there may be future CAA FB membership changes. Few conferences remain the same indefinitely.

[89Hen]

If I had my druthers the CAA would be no affiliates for any sport. It's not that I don't like Villanova, UMass, UNH, etc... it's just that I prefer the conference to have a little more identity. With the addition of ODU and GSU, that's more of a possibility.

[GannonFan]

If I had my druthers the CAA would be no affiliates for any sport. It's not that I don't like Villanova, UMass, UNH, etc... it's just that I prefer the conference to have a little more identity. With the addition of ODU and GSU, that's more of a possibility.

Just a question - why does that matter? Is CAA football less than it can be because it has teams in it that don't play basketball or baseball or lacrosse in the CAA? Are those sports suffering because of the same reasons (well, I guess only lacrosse since that's another one with affiliate members)? Identity is what you make it, and I'd rather a conference that was as best as they could be in each sport individually rather than resting their identity on the names of the members. CAA football is great because it's a great level of football - just because some of the teams play basketball elsewhere doesn't take away from that identity. IMO at least.

[89Hen]

Is CAA football less than it can be because it has teams in it that don't play basketball or baseball or lacrosse in the CAA?
No, but the rest of the CAA is less IMO. xpeacex

Without looking, can you name all the Big East schools? I might be able to if you gave me an hour and some free guesses. I can easily name you all the B10, BXII, ACC, SEC, P10... xpeacex

[GannonFan]

No, but the rest of the CAA is less IMO. xpeacex

Without looking, can you name all the Big East schools? I might be able to if you gave me an hour and some free guesses. I can easily name you all the B10, BXII, ACC, SEC, P10... xpeacex


Again, does it matter? I would certainly be slower being able to name the Big East schools, depending on which sport you're talking about, but at the same time if you mentioned one of those schools I would instantly know if it was a Big East school or not - not much of a difference in term of recognition in the grand scheme of things.

And besides, the Big East has only been around for basketball since 1978 or so - football since maybe 1990 or so - the other conferences have been pretty static, on the whole (well, maybe the Big 12 got different when the Big 8 assumed all those SWC schools) for decades.

But oddly, Big East basketball doesn't seem to suffer for a lack of idendity and Big East football doesn't either - WVa wins that game against Pitt last year and they're in the title game, conference indentity or no. xthumbsupx

[putter]

Oh, perfect. Orono to Atlanta isn't a ridiculous roadtrip or anything. Especially since Delta is pulling out of the Bangor airport.

Welcome to the Big Sky east. Montana to Northern Arizona or to Sacramento State.

[89Hen]

I would certainly be slower being able to name the Big East schools, depending on which sport you're talking about, but at the same time if you mentioned one of those schools I would instantly know if it was a Big East school or not - not much of a difference in term of recognition in the grand scheme of things
I will have to disagree with you there. I think it's a big difference being able to come up with a name vs recognizing one. In sales, I'd rather be thought of than recognized. xpeacex

[SFspidur]

Are the core Pac-10 members hurt by the inclusion of a half-dozen associate members?

Name recognition/coming-up-with for the Big East versus other BCS conferences is the same for me. In fact, I might have a slightly easier time coming up with Big East names. I don't see the existence of associate/non-all-sport members as an issue.

[Sam Minuteman]

While I think a north south geographical split would be the most cost effective and could build the best overall rivalries there may be some competitive balance issues especially without UD and VU. This would be especially noticable with a 3 league split, perhaps it changes from time to time but the CAA south has been much stronger than the north. This can work for or against teams on both sides providing strength of schedule for southern teams but also potentially giving weaker norther teams an easier road to the A.Q. especially if they draw the lesser teams from the south in a given year.

I have no idea what is going to happen but if there is a move into 3 divisions then maybe the New England teams need to think of going in another direction and I don't see how this would be good for Umass Football.

[nwFL Griz]

Are the core Pac-10 members hurt by the inclusion of a half-dozen associate members?

Name recognition/coming-up-with for the Big East versus other BCS conferences is the same for me. In fact, I might have a slightly easier time coming up with Big East names. I don't see the existence of associate/non-all-sport members as an issue.

Not that I have a dog in this hunt, but I've been reading this thread with interest. I think the point can be made that being an associate member in a revenue sport such as football is greatly different that being an associate member in men's soccer and wrestling. Just saying, apples-to-apples?

[NHwildEcat]

Does that mean ALL teams will play 4 north and 4 south each year?

If so...divisions then don't really make as much sense because you'd be playing the game number of games out of division...kinda pointless IMO.

[NHwildEcat]

North
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island

Central
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
Villanova


South
Georgia State
Richmond
James Madison
Old Dominion
William & Mary

I would think you need to add another team to even the divisions out? Albany to the Central division? Then the teams can play a 4-2-2- schedule rotation.

I like this :)

[SFspidur]

Not that I have a dog in this hunt, but I've been reading this thread with interest. I think the point can be made that being an associate member in a revenue sport such as football is greatly different that being an associate member in men's soccer and wrestling. Just saying, apples-to-apples?

I would agree with that. But I wasn't the one who brought "no affiliates for any sport" into the discussion. ;)

I just don't see how the make-up of the CAA football conference negatively affects the reputation of the CAA as a whole. On the contrary, it brings some premier non-core CAA programs and thus national visibility to the entire conference. Yes, there are some downsides, but I think they are much more than compensated for by the benefits.

If things were rebuilt from the ground up, they might not be done in exactly this way, but the evolution of conferences doesn't occur in a vacuum.

[WestCoastAggie]

The CAA already plays 8 games?

5 in own division 3 in opposite division.
Hmm I thought it was 7. MY BAD. xoopsx

[89Hen]

Are the core Pac-10 members hurt by the inclusion of a half-dozen associate members?
Wrestling and one soccer team is hardly football. xpeacex

[aust42]

No, it really isn't. If deciding who the "true league champion" (assuming you mean a school who wins the most games through round robin play or conference champ game?) mattered above all else to the CAA and its member schools, I'm sure you'd have a point. It doesn't. I'm sure many more of us prefer a messy but stronger CAA, loaded with terrific rivalries and great conference play week in and week out.

But, hey, if league championships are your bag, your interest might be best served following the Ivy League, the SWAC or FBS leagues with conference championship games. At least you can sleep well at night knowing who your "true league champion" is.;)

Any coach or player will tell you that the ultimate goal is winning a National Championship but winning your Conference Championship is also an important goal to achieve. They give rings for that too.

[89Hen]

I just don't see how the make-up of the CAA football conference negatively affects the reputation of the CAA as a whole.
For me, it's a matter of it makes conferences look mercenary. College sports should be all sports. It helps build rivalries. Right now Delaware has no rival. Mens Basketball is probably Drexel, football is Villanova, Womens Bball... nobody, Baseball... nobody... none of them are worth a darn. This is mostly because UD was spread out over several conferences forever. It's only now that the CAA is home to everything. And I want it everything for everyone in it. xpeacex

[Go...gate]

OK, fellas, how about this wild card - what about Fordham, A-10 member, which wants out of the Patriot League and is now sadly making much larger noises about leaving due to the scholarship issue?

They have shown some interest in CAA football over the years.

[89Hen]

OK, fellas, how about this wild card - what about Fordham, A-10 member, which wants out of the Patriot League and is now sadly making much larger noises about leaving due to the scholarship issue?
Would keep Hofstra happier. xeyebrowx

BTW, I like Albany too. xthumbsupx

[Jackman]

Not that I have a dog in this hunt, but I've been reading this thread with interest. I think the point can be made that being an associate member in a revenue sport such as football is greatly different that being an associate member in men's soccer and wrestling. Just saying, apples-to-apples?

Until FCS conferences start getting large television contracts or bowl money, it may as well be men's soccer. If we were dividing a big pile of money 14 ways, then I'd agree there would be problems. But we're not, 95% of our revenue is ticket and merchandise based, and everyone gets to keep what they earn. Where having a big ass conference helps us is in scheduling and media exposure. It's why we don't have to pay to get our games on TV. Most other conferences are eating the production costs before giving it to the network. Should the day ever come when ESPN hands us millions of dollars to broadcast CAA Football games, then Delaware will rightfully be annoyed that Northeastern is getting an equal share with them.

Where does splitting the conference and having to compete with each other for media attention and TV time get us? Where does filling the resulting gaps in our schedules with more low profile opponents get us? What's the upside? I'm not even sure I see an upside for the other conferences, but they sure seem in favor of us splitting. That would seem to suggest we should do the opposite.

[tribe_pride]

OK, fellas, how about this wild card - what about Fordham, A-10 member, which wants out of the Patriot League and is now sadly making much larger noises about leaving due to the scholarship issue?

They have shown some interest in CAA football over the years.

NO!!!!!!!!!. Nothing against Fordham (or if they want to take offense to all of the !!!!!!, go ahead), but the CAA does not need to add more members. Georgia State and ODU are coming in because they are full-time members of the conference. There is no reason to add more affiliates.

And the CAA does not need to add more full-time members at this point.

[BDKJMU]

No, just Georgia State. They're not really going to be in either the North or the South division, they're just being listed as part of the North to balance out the standings at 7 each. It's easier to understand if you imagine them by themselves in a third division. Judging from the quotes in the article, here's what each schedule will look like:

Georgia State: Play 4 of 6 North and 4 of 7 South every year.
North teams: Play 5 of 5 other North and 2 of 7 South every year + each North plays GSU 2 out of 3 years and plays 1 additional South on the 3rd year.
South teams: Play 5 of 6 other South and 2 of 6 North every year + each South plays GSU 4 out of 7 years and plays 1 additional South on the 5th, 6th and 7th years.

So 4 out of 7 South teams will miss a game against one other South team every year. That's the "missed rivalry games" Yeager is talking about. They'll probably rotate which South opponent is missed, so it will take about 11 years to miss the same opponent twice (if GSU is even still around 11 years later).

Clear as mud?

Does anyone besides the CAA heads think this is a good idea?

No. Simply have 7 teams assigned to the north and 7 assigned to the South. Each team would play the other 6 in their division and 2 of the 7 in the other division, 8 CAA games for everyone.

[Monarch History]

No. Simply have 7 teams assigned to the north and 7 assigned to the South. Each team would play the other 6 in their division and 2 of the 7 in the other division, 8 CAA games for everyone.

Sounds right to me.xnodx

[jmufan999]

let JMU's new rival be ODU.

(picture me saying this like a 5 year old who's on the verge of tears and ready to run to his room sobbing)

but i don't WANNA be rivals with ODU!!!!!

[henfan]

Any coach or player will tell you that the ultimate goal is winning a National Championship but winning your Conference Championship is also an important goal to achieve. They give rings for that too.

Sure the designation has some value, especially since it means the beholder will have the opportunity to compete for the big national prize. I never indicated otherwise.

I'm still not sure what it is you're arguing here. The CAA designates a "true conference champion" ever year, though they might not arrive at the designation in a way that pleases you (i.e.- round robin play) and it may not be a single team. But as I've said before, round robin play does not guarantee a single champion either.

CAA schools haven't stopped awarding championship rings to their teams just because they may have been officially recognized as co-champions. Rings given to co-champs hold no less value to those who earned them simply because the team didn't play a round robin schedule.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My Idea:
2 divisions, 7 teams each.
No cross-divisional games.

The CAA teams are all forced to leave the last Saturday of the season before the playoffs open for a championship game.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Th PL seems so homey and comfy right now, after reading all of this. Pretty much the same schedule since the 1880s or something like that.

[ccd494]

My Idea:
2 divisions, 7 teams each.
No cross-divisional games.

The CAA teams are all forced to leave the last Saturday of the season before the playoffs open for a championship game.

Why would the CAA want to play a championship game?

I would argue that for every time a team got a win that helps it into the playoffs, two or three teams would pick up a loss keeping them out.

[henfan]

Why would the CAA want to play a championship game?

They don't because it's an idea that makes no sense in the current FCS structure.

Like every other playoff-eligible FCS conference, the CAA already has a formula for determining its champion in the event that multiple teams end up with the same conference record. A championship game is as unnecessary to the CAA as it would be to the SoCon or Patriot League.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Like every other playoff-eligible FCS conference, the CAA already has a formula for determining its champion in the event that multiple teams end up with the same conference record. A championship game is as unnecessary to the CAA as it would be to the SoCon or Patriot League.

So you're saying that the CAA is the BCS of the FCS. xlolx

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

The only people that seem to have a problem with the way the CAA crowns it's champion are not CAA schools. It the schools have no problem with it, shouldn't that be enough?

[89Hen]

My Idea:
2 divisions, 7 teams each.
No cross-divisional games.

The CAA teams are all forced to leave the last Saturday of the season before the playoffs open for a championship game.
xconfusedx So 12 of the CAA teams play 10 games?

[JMUNJ08]

What happens when JMU, UNH, and Nova all go undefeated in a 3 division format? Tri-Champs????

[henfan]

So you're saying that the CAA is the BCS of the FCS. xlolx

If you're silly enough to compare the NCAA's requirement for autobid designees to what the BCS does to determine a subdivision champion, that's your misfortune.xsmhx

Of course, the CAA, like the Patriot League and every other playoff eligible conference, is required by the NCAA to adopt a formula for determining its autobid designee. Here's the PL's BCS formula:
http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/081308aad.html

[19Duke97]

Well UNCC is not in the CAA for any sports so if they add football, it is not like they have to join. As to the other CAA non football schools, they have a window in which they are allowed automatic entry into the CAA Football conference, but it is not for too much longer. I cannot see VCU or UNCW or Drexel starting a football team in the next 5 years. GMU would be the only school that I think would be serious about starting a team, and they most definitely have stadium issues. If they had teamed up with DC United to build a stadium some where in NoVa, then I would be more optimistic about them. I have a feeling that GaSt. will move "up" relatively quickly, and likely either URI or Northeastern will move "down".

Football at VCU is much more of a possibility now that Dr. Trani is out. I cannot see GMU starting football to play in DC - that's a 30 min drive - in good traffic. VCU has a stadium pre-built that's virtually on campus (5 mins away), and the only other team in town is UR. This could be a wonderful in town rivalry, only a locale and class level. Drexel seems unlikely, and not sure about UNC-W's viability either.

[89Hen]

I cannot see GMU starting football to play in DC - that's a 30 min drive - in good traffic.
I think the comment was that had they teamed up with United to move their stadium to NoVa that would have been an opportunity for them.

GMU has a club team, they have enough land around the current stadium to expand it, and already have the parking at the Patriot Center across the street from the stadium to park everyone. GMU football is not far-fetched at all. xpeacex

[NHwildEcat]

What happens when JMU, UNH, and Nova all go undefeated in a 3 division format? Tri-Champs????

There would still be a tie-breaker in effect to determine the auto-bid as there is now.

[19Duke97]

I think the comment was that had they teamed up with United to move their stadium to NoVa that would have been an opportunity for them.

GMU has a club team, they have enough land around the current stadium to expand it, and already have the parking at the Patriot Center across the street from the stadium to park everyone. GMU football is not far-fetched at all. xpeacex

Possibly, but it's a large undertaking to build a stadium (or expand whatever they are playing on for club). I just feel that VCU has a much easier road to football - if they choose to go that route. It's really in the administrations hands, and we all know that certain folks seem to have a negative opinion on college football, grounded in reality or not.

[henfan]

FB at GMU, VCU or UNCW may not be announced tomorrow, but my best guess is that conversations may have already taken place between the CAA FB league & one or more of those schools. The league didn't advance the date until 2017 for Colonial Athletic Association members to declare their football intentions for no reason. xnodx

[Seven Would Be Nice]

So being in the CAA, that will get them in the playoffs by 2011, right?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FB at GMU, VCU or UNCW may not be announced tomorrow, but my best guess is that conversations may have already taken place between the CAA FB league & one or more of those schools. The league didn't advance the date until 2017 for Colonial Athletic Association members to declare their football intentions for no reason. xnodx

If anyone starts up football, IMO it will be VCU first followed by GMU. VCU is a huge school that certainly can start up football, and they'll have a built-in stadium (and rivalry) once UR leaves Richmond stadium.

[jmufan999]

If anyone starts up football, IMO it will be VCU first followed by GMU. VCU is a huge school that certainly can start up football, and they'll have a built-in stadium (and rivalry) once UR leaves Richmond stadium.

good point. i know there was some "tussling" (is that a word?) between many proponents of VCU football and their former President. maybe it's the current president. but either way, i know there was some back and forth between the two sides. i'd say VCU is more likely just because GMU is such a commuter school anyway... it's hard enough to start a new program when you have an active on-campus community, no less when you don't... just an opinion.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

UR, UNH, UMass, Villanova, Maine and URI is a good start for a conference.

Add in Fordham and Stony Brook and you've got yourself a conference!

[henfan]

Are there not still plans afoot by the City of Richmond to sell the existing UR Stadium site for redevelopment once UR FB vacates after this season?

GMU already has its own on campus facility that would just have to be reconfigured. IMO, they're are in a much better position to field a team than VCU, especially having a club tradition firmly established. GMU edges out VCU in student population, though both are roughly the same size.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ob3e3mcRn44/Sq73OLcwAsI/AAAAAAAAIPU/QoyjHiIHwxw/s576/_R6U0102.jpg

[Eight Legger]

VCU's new president came from Central Michigan U and I think is viewed as a proponent of football, or at least someone who will consider it. It will probably happen there at some point, but doubtful in the immediate future, given the economy and the cost of starting a program (not that they couldn't afford it if they wanted to).

Mason already has a club team, no?

[JMUNJ08]

There would still be a tie-breaker in effect to determine the auto-bid as there is now.

There will be a tie breaker for the auto bid just saying there may be a case where 3 teams are undefeated in conference. That just sounds a little out there for me because that means they wouldn't have played each other but are in the same league.

[NHwildEcat]

There will be a tie breaker for the auto bid just saying there may be a case where 3 teams are undefeated in conference. That just sounds a little out there for me because that means they wouldn't have played each other but are in the same league.

Gotcha. Yeah that would be odd to say the least. I would say if they had to expand more that they stay with the two divisions and just play lest cross divisional games.

[Jackman]

There will be a tie breaker for the auto bid just saying there may be a case where 3 teams are undefeated in conference. That just sounds a little out there for me because that means they wouldn't have played each other but are in the same league.

That happens now though. Any league which plays an 8 game conference schedule with more than 9 conference members will have that issue. And under the plan Yeager described in the article, we could still have 3 undefeated teams with only 2 divisions, because Georgia State isn't playing everyone in either division and not all the CAA South teams will be playing each other every year.

Again though, really, who cares? Going undefeated in any CAA division means you're going to the playoffs, and you can settle who the real champ is there. And I think 3 divisions are much healthier than 2 divisions because you'll rotate through your non-divisional opponents more frequently (at about the same rate we currently do). When you make 2 gigantic divisions, you're really creating two separate leagues and it will take an eternity to play everyone else in the opposite division. For example, it will be 7 years between UMass's visits to JMU's stadium. We play Boston College more often than that. They'll be more of a conference opponent than JMU is if we set up 2 divisions of 7.

[ur2k]

If anyone starts up football, IMO it will be VCU first followed by GMU. VCU is a huge school that certainly can start up football, and they'll have a built-in stadium (and rivalry) once UR leaves Richmond stadium.

I don't see VCU having the alumni financial support or desire right now to start football. If they ever do, its way down the road and by that time, UR stadium won't be there anymore - the city won't just sit on a property hoping VCU starts football someday.

[JMUNJ08]

That happens now though. Any league which plays an 8 game conference schedule with more than 9 conference members will have that issue. And under the plan Yeager described in the article, we could still have 3 undefeated teams with only 2 divisions, because Georgia State isn't playing everyone in either division and not all the CAA South teams will be playing each other every year.

Again though, really, who cares? Going undefeated in any CAA division means you're going to the playoffs, and you can settle who the real champ is there. And I think 3 divisions are much healthier than 2 divisions because you'll rotate through your non-divisional opponents more frequently (at about the same rate we currently do). When you make 2 gigantic divisions, you're really creating two separate leagues and it will take an eternity to play everyone else in the opposite division. For example, it will be 7 years between UMass's visits to JMU's stadium. We play Boston College more often than that. They'll be more of a conference opponent than JMU is if we set up 2 divisions of 7.

Thats what I was getting at. Doesn't seem like a real conference to me either with the lack of intereaction between the members. I understand that the playoffs are what really matters in the end but why have the conference at all at that size if we won't see UMASS only 2 times before I have kids and they go to college.

[GannonFan]

Thats what I was getting at. Doesn't seem like a real conference to me either with the lack of intereaction between the members. I understand that the playoffs are what really matters in the end but why have the conference at all at that size if we won't see UMASS only 2 times before I have kids and they go to college.

Because it helps with scheduling - no need to have to search for schools to fill a lot of OOC dates. If the CAA split right now, into two divisions of 6, that would be a schedule of 5 conference games and 6 OOC games. ODU and GSU flip that number to 6 and 5 respectively if we went to two 7 team conferences. Sure, people can say that the OOC games would be easy to fill since the two conferences could just keep scheduling each other. However, once you have two separate conferences, you add in the issue of leverage - many of the schools in the South (UD, JMU, etc) don't necessarily have to schedule home and home OOC games. They could demand more home games and just buy off the weaker-leverage CAA North schools. There's a reason why the northern outposts like Maine still want to be in the CAA - scheduling for them would be difficult at best, and any schedule they'd come up with wouldn't be as strong as what they have now.

And that's the other factor - the CAA (and A10 before it) has created a brand here that makes all the conference members stronger for it. Being in the same conference with everyone gives them an association that helps their perceived status. A conference with UD, Richmond, UMass, nova, W&M, UNH, JMU, Maine, and say Hofstra (the 9 most successful over the past decade) and getting to play those schools is a much better sell (for recruits, for playoff spots, for strength of scheduling, etc), than two lists with those names separated. The CAA is certainly stronger for being bigger than the two separate conferences would be if split.

[Jackman]

Thats what I was getting at. Doesn't seem like a real conference to me either with the lack of intereaction between the members. I understand that the playoffs are what really matters in the end but why have the conference at all at that size if we won't see UMASS only 2 times before I have kids and they go to college.

It doesn't have to be that way though. Just switch to 3 divisions, and we'll play everyone at intervals no larger than we currently do, except that one far north vs. far south matchup will be pushed back an additional year. Do you really need to play Towson every year instead of every other year?

If we split up into separate conferences, what's going to happen is that we're going to get into a bidding war for TV time since we're both in each other's markets. That's going to result in Comcast Sportsnet and others making each of us pay to get on their channels, which means we'll both be getting on TV less as compared to when Comcast paid us a small amount for our games. We'll also have to pay for two media days instead of one, two websites instead of one, produce two conference commercials instead of one, etc. Administrative costs double. Revenue decreases slightly (TV). And you won't be saving anything on travel because you'll be flying to Northeastern and Hofstra twice as often and Georgia State 1.5 times as often. What's the upside?

Having 14 members isn't ideal, but it's better than splitting, which is the conclusion all the current members came to as well. The question is how do we make the best of it?

[mad_dog97]

I don't see VCU having the alumni financial support or desire right now to start football. If they ever do, its way down the road and by that time, UR stadium won't be there anymore - the city won't just sit on a property hoping VCU starts football someday.

What about SportsBackers stadium near the Diamond? That seems like it would be a good potential location, but I don't really know how "upgradeable" that would be for VCU football.

[JMUNJ08]

Having 14 members isn't ideal, but it's better than splitting, which is the conclusion all the current members came to as well. The question is how do we make the best of it?


I agree and thats the driving point I cannot figure outxbawlingx With so few games in a season for football its just hard to get a logical decision that doesn't look ugly on paper for 14 teams. Hope it works out as I wouldn't want to lose good football programs in UMASS, UNH and Nova who aren't full CAA members.