SHSU Begins Checking out FBS Move

[TexasTerror]

According to this document - http://www.shsu.edu/~pur_www/wca/procurement/documents/Notice-ConsultingAthleticFeasibilityStudy.doc, SHSU is currently seeking a firm (via the request for proposal process) to conduct an FBS feasibility study. While it does mention FBS, it also talks about improving the current program in place at the school - so that is critical as well.

The document, among other things states:

• Identify the specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I athletic program.
• Identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) team.
• Assess and identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with a move to the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS).

[lionsrking2]

According to this document - http://www.shsu.edu/~pur_www/wca/procurement/documents/Notice-ConsultingAthleticFeasibilityStudy.doc, SHSU is currently seeking a firm (via the request for proposal process) to conduct an FBS feasibility study. While it does mention FBS, it also talks about improving the current program in place at the school - so that is critical as well.

The document, among other things states:

• Identify the specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I athletic program.
• Identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) team.
• Assess and identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with a move to the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS).


I know at one point, prior to the economy tanking and the massive budget cuts, there was private scuttlebutt around the league of the entire SLC moving up as one...I wonder if this study by SH is an extension of that??

[TexasTerror]

I know at one point, prior to the economy tanking and the massive budget cuts, there was private scuttlebutt around the league of the entire SLC moving up as one...I wonder if this study by SH is an extension of that??

Not sure.

It is known that internally, the President of the University wants to keep up with the Steins, Benjamins or whomever as it relates to athletics. We've typically moved with Southwest Texas (now Texas St-San Marcos) and Stephen F. Austin.

This is a good measure by the school. While I do not think signs will point to FBS, it will give us a good chance to review our school and what needs to be done to make us a real viable FCS program.

[lionsrking2]

Not sure.

It is known that internally, the President of the University wants to keep up with the Steins, Benjamins or whomever as it relates to athletics. We've typically moved with Southwest Texas (now Texas St-San Marcos) and Stephen F. Austin.

This is a good measure by the school. While I do not think signs will point to FBS, it will give us a good chance to review our school and what needs to be done to make us a real viable FCS program.

I don't see anything wrong with performing an FBS viability study, even if the goal is simply improving as an FCS program...never hurts to find out where you stand and what the realistic limits are...plus it serves to quiet those who want to move up.

[TexasTerror]

I don't see anything wrong with performing an FBS viability study, even if the goal is simply improving as an FCS program...never hurts to find out where you stand and what the realistic limits are...plus it serves to quiet those who want to move up.

I agree - we'll see how taken out of context this is. Could get interesting...xnodx

[MSUBear42]

According to this document - http://www.shsu.edu/~pur_www/wca/procurement/documents/Notice-ConsultingAthleticFeasibilityStudy.doc, SHSU is currently seeking a firm (via the request for proposal process) to conduct an FBS feasibility study. While it does mention FBS, it also talks about improving the current program in place at the school - so that is critical as well.

The document, among other things states:

• Identify the specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I athletic program.
• Identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with improving and maintaining a successful Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) team.
• Assess and identify specific costs, revenues and facilities associated with a move to the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS).

Hope we join you!

[centexguy]

I'm predicting the Texas schools in the SLC leave to form a new FBS conference.

[McNeese75]

xcoffeex Save the money to pay a better head coach xwhistlex

[ValleyChamp]

Good riddence.xcoffeex

[WestCoastAggie]

Gee great, another North Texas. xwhistlex

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Good riddence.xcoffeex

xbowx

[TexasTerror]

Good riddence.xcoffeex


Gee great, another North Texas. xwhistlex


xbowx

And as predicted - these people just did not read what was posted.

It's more about looking at the school's feasibility and how to improve as a Div I school. FBS is being looked at it as part of this feasibility. Think this move is more about looking at oneself, not necessarily FBS - but hey, keep posting! xnodx

[TexasTerror]

As I said on KatFans.com...

People are missing the point.

This survey will give us a solid review of our FBS feasibility and what our fans, alums, students, etc think about the possibility and what they are willing do to support the move.

HOWEVER, it would also give us a better understanding on what we need to improve if we want to stay at this level.

Georgia Southern did a similar study and it showed what their "publics" perceive of their current program, a possible FBS program and more.

I think - FBS on the table OR not - this is a great idea and one that will help us look back at ourselves without using the goggles that make everything pretty.

[TexasTerror]

Some articles on Georgia Southern's study which is similar to what we are setting the table to do..the 'step III' (third link) has some info on what they figured out...

Step I: Georgia Southern Announces Plans for FBS Feasibility Study
http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=18700&ATCLID=1329814&SPID=10890&SPSID=90301

Step II: FBS Feasibility Study Open Session Set for Saturday, October 18
http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=18700&ATCLID=1603048&SPID=10890&SPSID=90301

Step III: Georgia Southern University Provides Update on Football Bowl Subdivision Feasibility Study
http://www.georgiasoutherneagles.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=18700&ATCLID=204767000&SPID=10884&SPSID=90284

The thing I am most interested to see is the fan, booster, student, faculty, community feedback.

What schools do they want to see? If were FBS - how much more likely would they attend games? What's their recognition with the SLC and the teams we face now? What sports do they attend? Would they be willing to pay XYZ as a student fee or increase in their donations for us to go to FBS?

[McNeese75]

As I said on KatFans.com...

People are missing the point.

This survey will give us a solid review of our FBS feasibility and what our fans, alums, students, etc think about the possibility and what they are willing do to support the move.

HOWEVER, it would also give us a better understanding on what we need to improve if we want to stay at this level.

Georgia Southern did a similar study and it showed what their "publics" perceive of their current program, a possible FBS program and more.

I think - FBS on the table OR not - this is a great idea and one that will help us look back at ourselves without using the goggles that make everything pretty.

xrolleyesx Are you sure you really want to know that at this time? :D xpeacex

[katstrapper]

xcoffeex Save the money to pay a better head coach xwhistlex

AMEN ON THAT ONE!!! They could have saved their money on this study. We had a chance to hire Turner Gill and we didnt do it.

[TexasTerror]

xrolleyesx Are you sure you really want to know that at this time? :D xpeacex

Sure - why not? We need to know what our fans perceive of our program, how much they are willing to support our program if we decide to go FBS to make it worth it, etc.


AMEN ON THAT ONE!!! They could have saved their money on this study. We had a chance to hire Turner Gill and we didnt do it.

You can always second-guess coaching hires. I am not sure Turner Gil, if my memory serves me right, was the top choice of the Bearkat fan base when it all came down. Nor was Whitten - but now with Gil having success at Buffalo, everyone is on the TG bandwagon.

[henfan]

I'm predicting the Texas schools in the SLC leave to form a new FBS conference.

Really? Given the current NCAA D-I requirements, how and why exactly would they do that? How many new FBS conferences have formed in the last three decades?

RULE #1: Forming a new D-I/FBS conference out of thin air is very difficult, if not impossible, given the current economic climate & D-I requirements.
RULE #2: Any FBS conference would necessarily have to involve all-sport affiliations. Are the schools in this supposed new conference willing to wait to satisfy NCAA post-season waiting periods before gaining post-season access for Olympic sports?

The odds are stacked very much against what you've described. IME, if TX schools hope to be playing FBS FB someday, they'll likely have to do it as all-sport members of an existing D-I conference. The other best possibility is that the Southland reclassifies its FB league.

[katstrapper]

And as predicted - these people just did not read what was posted.

It's more about looking at the school's feasibility and how to improve as a Div I school. FBS is being looked at it as part of this feasibility. Think this move is more about looking at oneself, not necessarily FBS - but hey, keep posting! xnodx

Terror..

why do you have to say that. Look at the heading of your topic...."SHSU Begins Checking Out FBS Move", then your next statement is "it is really a study to improve the program at Div I level.

Your same post on Katfans.com says " SHSU doing Div I Feasibility Study". Which is it?

[TexasTerror]

why do you have to say that. Look at the heading of your topic...."SHSU Begins Checking Out FBS Move", then your next statement is "it is really a study to improve the program at Div I level.

Because it is BOTH. I put checking out FBS move, because that would get attention on this board and quite frankly, that is part of the equation.

This study, because I just don't envision FBS considering the current landscape of college football, is more or less going to be an objective look at improving our program.


Your same post on Katfans.com says " SHSU doing Div I Feasibility Study". Which is it?

That was Pat's post. Not mine.

I was the one who has said two or three times that this is MORE than just FBS. I even listed some firms that have been involved in similar studies in the past, even Georgia Southern's efforts, which were an objective approach at 'game planning' for the future REGARDLESS of level.

[TexasTerror]

Really? Given the current NCAA D-I requirements, how and why exactly would they do that? How many new FBS conferences have formed in the last three decades?

Just the Sun Belt, right? Conference USA was technically the old Metro (would you say?) and the Mountain West (a split from the WAC)?


RULE #1: Forming a new D-I/FBS conference out of thin air is very difficult, if not impossible, given the current economic climate & D-I requirements.

If a league came up to FBS and had a bowl tie-in or two in place, I do not think it would be as big an issue. If these schools all put in new student athletic fees that covered the additional Title IX and scholarship costs, you'd be pretty much set outside of perhaps stadium size - which could be covered quickly with a few FBS paydays.


RULE #2: Any FBS conference would necessarily have to involve all-sport affiliations. Are the schools in this supposed new conference willing to wait to satisfy NCAA post-season waiting periods before gaining post-season access for Olympic sports?

If the SLC as a whole moved up, this would not be an issue.


The odds are stacked very much against what you've described. IME, if TX schools hope to be playing FBS FB someday, they'll likely have to do it as all-sport members of an existing D-I conference. The other best possibility is that the Southland reclassifies its FB league.

I agree.

[henfan]

The Sun Belt formed in '76, which is technically more than 3 decades ago. The Mountain West formed in '99. My suggestion wasn't that it's impossible to form a new D-I/FBS conference, just that it is extrememly rare. Even more so lately because the NCAA D-I governance & voting structure has changed so much in this decade.

There's a lot more to league reclassification/formation than simply meeting FBS eligibility requirements as a conference. The administration costs for a new league would be prohibitive, if you want to do it right. What are your media markets and which media deals can you land? Gaining access to bowl tie-ins that aren't going to cost a league money is next to impossible, especially for any new league. The prospects aren't good.

[TexasTerror]

The Sun Belt formed in '76, which is technically more than 3 decades ago. The Mountain West formed in '99. My suggestion wasn't that it's impossible to form a new D-I/FBS conference, just that it is extrememly rare. Even more so lately because the NCAA D-I governance & voting structure has changed so much in this decade.

The Sun Belt did not introduce football until 2001 and most of the members comprising the football league were new to FBS or a bunch of independents. The makeup has changed significantly since the start until the current formation which includes 10 FB members (when USA joins in) plus 3 non football.


There's a lot more to league reclassification/formation than simply meeting FBS eligibility requirements as a conference. The administration costs for a new league would be prohibitive, if you want to do it right. What are your media markets and which media deals can you land? Gaining access to bowl tie-ins that aren't going to cost a league money is next to impossible, especially for any new league. The prospects aren't good.

The Southland created the Independence Bowl at one point to give itself a bowl game. We'll see what the future brings. The SLC does have a good leadership in place that thinks out of the box (see SLC TV Network in response to not getting a hand from the local FSN affiliate and probably one of the more active social media efforts).

[BEAR]

Does anyone else but me forsee a time somewhere in the near future when the FBS schools that play in BCS bowl games, are part of the "power" conferences, and basically are elitist, decide to form an even higher division than the FBS and leave all the other schools behind?

SEC, PAC, BIGS-?, all band together to form the SUPER BCS?

All because of the above mentioned AND because the FBS gets flooded by teams from the FCS who "MOVE UP" to join the FBS only to create more SUNBELT-LIKE conferences. xrolleyesx

So will the now new FBS schools who moved up decide they aren't happy as FBS schools and decide to move up to the SUPER BCS? When will it end?

Just a theory and not directed at any school or schools in particular. xlolx

[henfan]

The Sun Belt did not introduce football until 2001 and most of the members comprising the football league were new to FBS or a bunch of independents. The makeup has changed significantly since the start until the current formation which includes 10 FB members (when USA joins in) plus 3 non football.

Right, but the point I was making that the existing conference structure & administration, while it has changed, was already in place.

[MplsBison]

All you need to be FBS is to provide 76.5 scholarship equivalencies to no more than 85 players and sell an average of 15,000 tickets per game over a rolling 2 year window*.

* - only tickets sold at a price of some percentage of the most expensive ticket or higher count



That really isn't that much of a reach for the FCS schools that could sell that many tickets. 13.5 more scholarships is all it takes.


Finding a conference is the bigger issue.

[AxeEmJacks]

What if there isn't a "creation of a new conference" in the FBS? Couldn't C-USA East be spun off and join I dunno, the Big East? Then either rename what is now called C-USA West or just keep it as such and bring up the best SLC teams. I honestly think that SFA or McNeese could take Rice or Tulane this year. The downside to moving to the FBS is that those teams that do move up won't be getting that paid FBS game. In any event a move by any team won't happen for 2-5 years, in my opinion.

[TexasTerror]

What if there isn't a "creation of a new conference" in the FBS? Couldn't C-USA East be spun off and join I dunno, the Big East? Then either rename what is now called C-USA West or just keep it as such and bring up the best SLC teams. I honestly think that SFA or McNeese could take Rice or Tulane this year. The downside to moving to the FBS is that those teams that do move up won't be getting that paid FBS game. In any event a move by any team won't happen for 2-5 years, in my opinion.

1) The move could not happen for another 2-5 years to begin with - the moratorium is in place. You are really new to FCS and the SLC from the looks of your posts...

2) Yes they could get that 'paid FBS game'. Instead of $350k to play TxTech, it could be a 800K to $1M to play Tech. All the SBC practically commands $1M+ from BCS conference schools.

[AxeEmJacks]

You are really new to FCS and the SLC from the looks of your posts...

That I am. But I'm trying. Just throwing out what I think. Thanks for the info

[TexasTerror]

That I am. But I'm trying. Just throwing out what I think. Thanks for the info

Not a problem - welcome aboard. What puts a Lumberjack in Hawaii? xconfusedx

[AxeEmJacks]

Not really a Lumberjack, I'm a Marine in Hawaii. My girlfriend goes to SFA and she bugged me last year to follow them. So this year I jumped on the bandwagon and started following them. So I've been trying to catch up on everything FCS especially SLC. Not really made much progress until I found this forum. Thought I'd make an account since I haven't seen one Jacks fan.

[crossfire07]

While I do not think signs will point to FBS, it will give us a good chance to review our school and what needs to be done to make us a real viable FCS program.

why don't they try WINNING and that would help them be a viable FCS school. they could pay some damn good coaching saliries that they are going to waste on that study.

[TexasTerror]

why don't they try WINNING and that would help them be a viable FCS school. they could pay some damn good coaching saliries that they are going to waste on that study.

I would say that outside of football - we've been consistent in the other of the "big three" when it comes to 'Ws' as of the last few years.

Baseball has three straight NCAA appearances under Mark Johnson and men's basketball is the most consistent program (and winningest in both OOC and SLC play this decade) in the league - just needs to get over the SLC tournament hump.

If SHSU gets football going for a nice run and has a coach that hits the campus and community (like Peveto), I think the support will be there for a solid FCS. We were drawing about 9k regularly without much problems when we were average at best.

[MplsBison]

You could potentially make a new FBS conference with TX and LA teams from the Sun Belt and Southland.

North Texas
???

UT-San Antonio
Texas State

Sam Houston
Stephen F Austin

Lamar
McNeese

UL-Monroe
UL-Lafayette

[TexasTerror]

You could potentially make a new FBS conference with TX and LA teams from the Sun Belt and Southland.

North Texas
???

UT-San Antonio
Texas State

Sam Houston
Stephen F Austin

Lamar
McNeese

UL-Monroe
UL-Lafayette

MplsBison -

This has been beaten to death. ULL and NT wanted out of the SLC the second they could when the league brought up the "Div II" group (SHSU, SFA, then-SWT). Those schools are 'elite-ist', just like La Tech is when it comes to those in the Sun Belt.

They may be able to stomach one SLC school if they have to (probably UTSA), but doubt they'd be too thrilled about more than that.

[DG Cowboy]

[QUOTE=MplsBison;1449374]You could potentially make a new FBS conference with TX and LA teams from the Sun Belt and Southland.

UL-L will never agree to be in a conference with McNeese again.

Welcome Axe. Semper Fi.You're doing fine.

But McNeese lost to Tulane 42-32. Left that one on the field with no one to blame but ourselves.

[MplsBison]

MplsBison -

This has been beaten to death. ULL and NT wanted out of the SLC the second they could when the league brought up the "Div II" group (SHSU, SFA, then-SWT). Those schools are 'elite-ist', just like La Tech is when it comes to those in the Sun Belt.

They may be able to stomach one SLC school if they have to (probably UTSA), but doubt they'd be too thrilled about more than that.

Times change, bitter people die.

You may be surprised to find out just what some schools will agree to when they see the cost savings from travel.

[TexasTerror]

** BREAKING NEWS **

SHSU President James Gaertner is retiring. This will be made official later today. Several sources have confirmed this here in the last 10 minutes.

This further alters the future of SHSU as an institution as Gaertner was the one who took over and led this campus forward - academically, athletically, structurally, community outreach, etc.

[TexasTerror]

Times change, bitter people die. You may be surprised to find out just what some schools will agree to when they see the cost savings from travel.

This continues to occur.

Just ask La Tech about ULL & ULM. Ask ULL & ULM about the SLC. It's crazy what ULL people think about McNeese, despite getting that same treatment from La Tech of all people.

[ncbears]

You guys aren't even all that good now. No smack because I know UNC isn't good either. Win something at this level and then move on. How are you going to compete at the next level?

[TexasTerror]

You guys aren't even all that good now. No smack because I know UNC isn't good either. Win something at this level and then move on. How are you going to compete at the next level?

We are exploring numerous things - not just an FBS, but how to be successful at this level. Have to be ready in case our number gets called (namely if our rivals all jump FBS).

And as we've seen, it does not necessarily take winning at this level to be successful, but it sure as heck doesn't hurt!

I am more interested in the feedback from the fans, students, community, alums, etc. We all know this is going to tell us that FBS is a pipe dream unless similar schools (namely TXST, SFA, Lamar and UTSA) go up.

[chrisattsu]

Not really a Lumberjack, I'm a Marine in Hawaii. My girlfriend goes to SFA and she bugged me last year to follow them. So this year I jumped on the bandwagon and started following them. So I've been trying to catch up on everything FCS especially SLC. Not really made much progress until I found this forum. Thought I'd make an account since I haven't seen one Jacks fan.

Welcome AxeEm..

Some schools in the SLC do a better job of having forums online. Someone has a link in another thread. SLC and FCS can be difficult to follow if you don't know where to look. It is not like our brand is splashed all over ESPN or main stream media 24 hours a day.

[Sly Fox]

Couple of considerations, Sam is playing it smart looking at what would need to be in place in order to step up if the situation arises. When things get crazy in the next round of realignment after the moratorium ends, if you haven't prepared then your options are greatly limited. With TSU & UTSA being upfront about their intentions it only makes sense to make sure that all options have been explored. Kudos to the Sam leadership.

As for the conference issue, it is the obvious elephant in the room for all schools considering stepping up. But I wouldn't consider it the roadblock some would imply. It wouldn't be tough to see where the Texas C-USA schools could be left holding the bag for the league if everyone else bolts in the realignment. Then you have UH, Rice, UTEP & Tulsa possibly looks for partners. the aforementioned travel issues could play well into the favor of schools who made themselves viable options.

I get where a Delaware fan has probably heard every reason why a new FBS league is impossible. But frankly if you were to look around you could probably find some East Coast DI conferences without football who might be thrilled to partner with more prestigious schools to help in a transition. Then all of sudden the Hens, Dukes, Monarchs and other potential conference mates could pull off the move together while satisfying the NCAA bylaws. No, it wouldn't be easy. But its far from impossible.

[centexguy]

I'm not sure why people go nuts when someone mentions FBS around here. I miss the days before D1 football was split between FBS/FCS and both the SLC and the MVC were playing against the big boys. Lamar had a home game against Baylor back then, but now being FCS they won't even be able to get a Sun Belt team. With very limited FCS schools around Texas it doesn't make sense to bring in other FCS schools from other parts of the country, especially when they have very little name recognition.

[chrisattsu]

I'm not sure why people go nuts when someone mentions FBS around here. I miss the days before D1 football was split between FBS/FCS and both the SLC and the MVC were playing against the big boys. Lamar had a home game against Baylor back then, but now being FCS they won't even be able to get a Sun Belt team. With very limited FCS schools around Texas it doesn't make sense to bring in other FCS schools from other parts of the country, especially when they have very little name recognition.

xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

It would be nice if DI football was together again.

But then you would need the playoffs and bowls in parallel.

[TexasTerror]

Article on SHSU's outgoing president...

Gaertner reflects on career, excited for future
http://www.itemonline.com/local/local_story_311232836.html

He may have a hand in one more major athletic decision before he leaves - the head football coaching situation.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

And as predicted - these people just did not read what was posted.

All joking aside, I am for Sam Houston doing what's best for Sam Houston. If the administration decides to move to FBS then more power to you as you get your heads caved in. Or if the administration decides to remain in FCS then more power to you as you continue to get your heads caved in.

My only sarcasm was due to you as one who always have a comment, recommendation, concern, rant, etc.. about what EVERYBODY else is doing.

At the end of the day; Sam Houston, do what best for your students, alumni and supporters.

[LakesBison]

NDSU will be right behind you!! Cant wait!

[ncbears]

NDSU will be right behind you!! Cant wait!

I doubt it.

[darell1976]

NDSU will be right behind you!! Cant wait!

At 2 wins. Yup you would be great in the FBS, shouldn't you host a playoff game before your big climb.xlolxxlolxxlolx

[LakesBison]

get over .500 vs NAIA teams then talk.

NDSU had a bad year with a lot of BS happening to them and never been out of a game, period.

[ncbears]

get over .500 vs NAIA teams then talk.

NDSU had a bad year with a lot of BS happening to them and never been out of a game, period.

Shut it. You don't think other teams have to deal with crap? You're lame.

[JSUBison]

Let's form the Little 12:

North

Montana
Northern Iowa
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Montana State
Missouri State

South

SHSU
SFA
Texas State
McNeese
Texas San Antonio
Wichita State

North is too top heavy though.


Davis, Poly and SUU go to Big Sky
UND USD go to the Valley

I don't know how the Southland would continue.

And this was all in fun, so if you don't like it take off.

[TexasTerror]

SHSU has opened the survey portion " to gain insight from the students, faculty, staff, alumni and the community on ways to strengthen the Sam Houston State athletic programs."

[SFA 71]

Not really a Lumberjack, I'm a Marine in Hawaii. My girlfriend goes to SFA and she bugged me last year to follow them. So this year I jumped on the bandwagon and started following them. So I've been trying to catch up on everything FCS especially SLC. Not really made much progress until I found this forum. Thought I'd make an account since I haven't seen one Jacks fan.

xconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedx

[JSU02]

Has SFA done a FBS study? Surely they won't allow themselves to be the odd man out...

[DG Cowboy]

Don't get upset SFA 71. He just never went to the Improv Section of AGS.

[MplsBison]

AFAIK, any new FBS schools are going to have to be invited by a current FBS conference first.

[JSU02]

I think the WAC would love to invite a chunk of Texas schools to allow for an eastern division, so I don't see that as a problem.

[centexguy]

SFA couldn't find the money for a new baseball stadium...how would they expand their stadium for FBS?

[TexasTerror]

Has SFA done a FBS study? Surely they won't allow themselves to be the odd man out...

Nope...

SFA has had a rough few years as far as leadership and fundraising abilities go. Athletically, they have not suffered too much as they just won their first-ever SLC Commissioners Cup this year, while having renewed success in football.

If SHSU is able to get plenty of support for an FBS move, it could get interesting. I would wait and see what the FBS study dictates...

[TexasTerror]

This will hopefully answer some questions on what SHSU is doing and why exactly they are doing it.


Because of the environment in the NCAA right now, and the pending movement in the major conferences, this survey could be looked at solely as a tool to help move up to FBS football. While that is a component of it, this study is to look at ways to strengthen our department, whatever the future holds for us.

We are trying to gauge interest in the program and the demographics of our fan base as well as looking at our potential in other conferences as it relates to moving up in football.

http://www.gobearkats.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19900&ATCLID=204951873

[TexasTerror]

Article in the Huntsville Item regarding SHSU's exploration of FBS opportunities...

http://itemonline.com/sports/x1617552783/SHSU-exploring-FBS-opportunities

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Will never happen. Who are they kidding folks? xcoffeex

[TexasTerror]

Will never happen. Who are they kidding folks? xcoffeex

Depends on the makeup of collegiate athletics in 5, 10 years.

I am not convinced that it will "never happen". Just not sure what would bring it about to make it happen.

Just look at how close we were to Texas and Texas A&M going different ways. The Aggie faithful are still fighting that mess too, losing donors and season ticket holders left and right over that situation...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Bringing up UT and TAMU? Huh?
Not even in the same sentence, paragraph, page, book or library.

[TexasTerror]

Bringing up UT and TAMU? Huh?
Not even in the same sentence, paragraph, page, book or library.

I'm just saying that it goes to show you that you never know what to expect when it comes to collegiate athletics. There's so many factors that drive the collegiate spectrum - bringing up the near split of UT and A&M, seeing as you are a Texas guy and would understand that no one thought that would happen in million years...

If the opportunity allows it, SHSU will go FBS. There have been on again, off again talk about the Texas part of the SLC moving together to FBS along with some other schools in the immediate vicinity who would be interested in doing the same...

[Syntax Error]

AFAIK, any new FBS schools are going to have to be invited by a current FBS conference first.

No

[TexasTerror]

UPDATE...


Another big project for this department over the last year has been the ongoing feasibility study conducted by a group of NACDA consultants. The feasibility study was expected to be completed early July. We have had several meetings with the consultants. Due to a few rewrites and reviews we are running about a month behind on the feasibility study report. We are hoping to have it wrapped up this month. This information will be made public on our web site, and sometime in the fall, NACDA consulting along with the athletic department will be making presentations to key people about the report.

http://www.gobearkats.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19900&ATCLID=204974929

[katstrapper]

We aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[TexasTerror]

We aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

We'll see, guess it depends on what you define as 'soon'...?

I'm under the impression that if our hands are forced, we'll have no other option, but to move to FBS. The college athletic landscape has changed so much in the last 12 months. Particularly here in Louisiana, I think it could change even further...

[TexasTerror]

Times are changing...

Appalachian State is conducting a similar study and surprisingly, SHSU has held close to the vest what their plans are based on the study we conducted. I'm very curious to know what the results are...

Posted on KatFans.com,


Our AD is handling things the right way IMO. The study has to be done the right way and if there was a strong sentiment to go FBS, I'd hope that we'd keep it close to the vest and not be public about it well discussing with conferences...

We could come out, get everyone rowdy about a move to FBS and then have a prolonged effort that only wears its welcome (see TXST's 2000 attempt to get into FBS and the "talk" that all began around 2005 about another attempt). We do not want that...

[TexasTerror]

Update from the AD... the changes particularly in the SLC have altered the feasibility study mid-way through the process. This is of no surprise, it adjusts things and I'm sure the AD is doing the right things...


It was what Division I football is supposed to look like. Speaking of Division I football, I want to address the feasibility study that was conducted by NACDA Consulting.

Late October, the feasibility study team is coming back to make a presentation to the university senior staff, the championship committee and the athletic department. I have been asked many questions on where we are on the feasibility study and I wanted to keep you updated on this.

Due to the many changes that happened with the college football landscape across the country this summer, we needed to go back and reevaluate the proposal and see if the benchmarks that are in place are realistic and possible. We understand the process is always evolving and we want to be as comfortable as possible with whatever challenges or circumstances present themselves to us.

Our focus going into this feasibility study, and upon completion of this study, has not changed. Our goals are to improve our current performance levels in the Southland Conference and the FCS, while exploring opportunities that are created by the changes in the NCAA membership.

http://www.gobearkats.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19900&ATCLID=205004554

[TexasFan]

You guys are still missing the the main ingrediant for making the move to FBS possible. MONEY! Where is SHSU going to come up with 5-8 million additional dollars especially when the Texas Legislature is asking for a 10% reduction from higher ed next fiscal year?

Are they going to raise student fees or designated tuition? The arguments for or against making the move all depend on revenues. Look at your home crowds, SHSU doesn't generate more than $200K per year in ticket revenue for football. Add guarantees and some NCAA distribution moneys and that's it except for institutional support.

Bottom line, can SHSU afford to make the move? Texas State can do it simply because they've spent the last two years collecting a $12/credit hour student fee for athletics that's generating around $23 million per year. You can do that with 32,000 kids going to school there.

SHSU has half the enrollment and reports one of the smalller budgets in the SLC even though there's some slight of hand accounting going on that. Where is the money coming from?

[TexasTerror]

You guys are still missing the the main ingrediant for making the move to FBS possible. MONEY! Where is SHSU going to come up with 5-8 million additional dollars especially when the Texas Legislature is asking for a 10% reduction from higher ed next fiscal year?

Are they going to raise student fees or designated tuition? The arguments for or against making the move all depend on revenues. Look at your home crowds, SHSU doesn't generate more than $200K per year in ticket revenue for football. Add guarantees and some NCAA distribution moneys and that's it except for institutional support.

Bottom line, can SHSU afford to make the move? Texas State can do it simply because they've spent the last two years collecting a $12/credit hour student fee for athletics that's generating around $23 million per year. You can do that with 32,000 kids going to school there.

SHSU has half the enrollment and reports one of the smalller budgets in the SLC even though there's some slight of hand accounting going on that. Where is the money coming from?

TexasFan,

Why do you think there is a feasibility study? It is going to tell us more about what we need to do to be competitive at the current level we are at and show what the 'Joe Fan' is willing to do if the FBS thing is a possibility. Are they willing to commit funds? Are the students willing to give in more to a student fee? Who do our fans, alums compare SHSU to athletically...academically?

No one at SHSU is saying we're in position to be FBS at this moment, but who is to say we won't be in a few years? A study is a study. It tells you who you are and what you need to do to get where you are going. Many in Huntsville are against a move to FBS at this point anyway. It's not like those in Beaumont where it's probably a 50/50 split, if not more leaning FBS thanks to a fan base that wants to relive glory days 20+ years ago.

[TexasTerror]

From half-time of SHSU-Lamar game...

SHSU AD...

Feasibiilty study is 2-to-3 year process. Talked to NACDA back in the spring.

Look on how to improve the athletic program, specifically football. Get to level of success of baseball and men's basketball.

Movement in football has happened and still discussed. We want to make sure we have the right information so we can make good decisions.

Getting close to releasing.

Best thing about it is that we are realizing how we can be the best FCS program we can be and how we can do the best we can. Our focus is to be the best at our level, be the best at SLC and explore our options.

Timeframe for release is next few weeks. Presentation to university administrators and athletic staff, before releasing to the public shortly thereafter.

On Lamar, will play SLC next year. Nice to have Cardinals come back. Makes it easy to schedule. 2004, we went to semifinals, we had six non-conference games and it difficult. Discussing with SLC members on how scheduling moves forward. Makes things easier.

[TexasTerror]

Study is now completed...


ATLANTA Ga. - Collegiate Consulting (formerly NACDA Consulting) recently completed a feasibility study for the Sam Houston State University intercollegiate athletics department. The six-month study was a comprehensive assessment of the department, including an analysis of the current athletic landscape within the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) and Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS).

"We were privileged to have the opportunity to work with Bobby Williams and his team on this study," stated Collegiate Consulting's Managing Director Russell Wright. "Sam Houston athletics has a long history of success and the strong foundation of support, both internally and externally, needed to be a premier program not only within the Southland Conference but nationally."

http://www.gobearkats.com//ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19900&ATCLID=205079856

[Sly Fox]

Shortcut to executive summary ....

http://www.gobearkats.com//pdf8/733488.pdf

I found this interesting in light of the speculation here on this board ...


Due to geographic proximity and membership opportunities, FBS research focused on CUSA and SBC. Top-line analysis illustrated that C-USA would provide a better geographic
and rivalry fit with fellow Texas institutions Rice, UTEP, SMU and Houston, all current CUSA members. Institutionally, SHSU fits the profile of C-USA schools with regard to
public institution status, total enrollment, gender ratio and tuition and fees. The
institution has an added benefit of being less than an hour’s drive from Houston and its
2.2 million marketplace. A sport comparison illustrates alignment with C-USA as well, as
the conference’s average of 16.8 sports fits well with SHSU’s 17 programs.

[LouiseBFree]

Why does it start on Page 2?

[JohnStOnge]

I think it's gotten to the point at which the NCAA should define level of football program by annual program expenditure. For example, say that in order to be FBS a school has to expend a minimum of $14 million per year on its football program. If you can't afford to do that...if you can't generate enough interest and support in your program to do that...you don't qualify. I picked $14 million because that's about what Vanderbilt spends. I just looked it up and it also happens to be about what UConn spends so I think that should be about right.

Anyway, there should not be a situation in which a school that spends about $30 million per year on its football program (Alabama) and a school that spends about $3 million per year on its football program (Louisiana Monroe) are technically competing in the same level and/or classification. I think program expediture is defintely the way to do it and I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I think it's gotten to the point at which the NCAA should define level of football program by annual program expenditure. For example, say that in order to be FBS a school has to expend a minimum of $14 million per year on its football program. If you can't afford to do that...if you can't generate enough interest and support in your program to do that...you don't qualify. I picked $14 million because that's about what Vanderbilt spends. I just looked it up and it also happens to be about what UConn spends so I think that should be about right.

Anyway, there should not be a situation in which a school that spends about $30 million per year on its football program (Alabama) and a school that spends about $3 million per year on its football program (Louisiana Monroe) are technically competing in the same level and/or classification. I think program expediture is defintely the way to do it and I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

Well said.

[TexasTerror]

The SHSU AD addressed FBS at a recent booster meeting...

Really think all of SHSU's reaction to college realignment is a direct reflection of what is occurring around us. There are so many moving parts in this thing and SHSU is going to have to be aware of all the parts in the immediate vicinity that have a direct correlation to the Southland Conference.

[txstatebobcat]

I think it's gotten to the point at which the NCAA should define level of football program by annual program expenditure. For example, say that in order to be FBS a school has to expend a minimum of $14 million per year on its football program. If you can't afford to do that...if you can't generate enough interest and support in your program to do that...you don't qualify. I picked $14 million because that's about what Vanderbilt spends. I just looked it up and it also happens to be about what UConn spends so I think that should be about right.

Anyway, there should not be a situation in which a school that spends about $30 million per year on its football program (Alabama) and a school that spends about $3 million per year on its football program (Louisiana Monroe) are technically competing in the same level and/or classification. I think program expediture is defintely the way to do it and I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

[URL="http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/06/29/big-spending-ohio-state-could-change-nickname-to-bucks-eyes/"]

According to this article, your rule would send around a third of all BCS schools to the FBS ranks. Personally I think the current situation is about right. Only about 10% of all FCS Schools have a 15,000+ attendance and at the same time only 11 FBS schools have less than 15,000 attendance under the current rules. There is always going to be some overlapping even with a rule such as the one you propose. Besides, I believe that going FBS is more for having a better, more exciting regular season than worrying about the post season.