At large for the Patriot League?

[joecooll6]

I've been looking at the FCS landscape and trying to figure out what conference the bids will go to. It looks like theres a good chance the PL runner up may have 9 wins.

Patriot League fans, can the PL get an at large bid this year? Is it possible with the types of schedules you have? I'm not very familiar with the conference so I dont know how it usually works. Would a 9 win team get in without the auto?

[65 Pard]

Lafayette got an at large a few years ago, so it is possible

Could we also qualify as the 4-0 undefeated de facto Ivy League champs? :-)

[EmeryZach]

It won't happen this year because there are too many deserving CAA teams.

[bluehenbillk]

Hard to make a case, what quality wins do the teams have to make their case??

[JMUNJ08]

Hard to make a case, what quality wins do the teams have to make their case??

0 - Colgate is undefeated and played teams with a combined record of about 20 games under .500. They can only get the auto.

[ngineer]

I agree. The OOC games for those on the bubble won't carry them past the number of CAA heavies who are killing each other.

[bulldog10jw]

Lafayette got an at large a few years ago, so it is possible

Could we also qualify as the 4-0 undefeated de facto Ivy League champs? :-)

Only if one of the Ivy teams you beat actually wins the title. ;)

[Pard94]

I doubt it highly. Let me save you the suspense. Danefan doesn't think so either. He should be here any minute to tell you all about how the NEC is at least as desreving if not way more deserving than any team in the lowly Patriot League. Shouldn't be long now.

[TexasTerror]

I believe that a few CAA teams that would likely have a shot at the playoffs are given their walking papers relatively soon. They're going to beat up on each other and eliminate a few likely playoff teams...

[TheValleyRaider]

Long shot at best

Never say never, but it'd be quite a surprise at this point xtwocentsx

[Doc QB]

I almost hope the mistake ISN'T made where they get an at-large. Say what you will, but 7-4 teams from tougher conferences, I think, are tremendously more deserving of an at-large. During a year where the league may be down as a whole (yes, with admittedly too much emphasis given to Lehigh's slide as representation of legue-wide slip in quality), fans of the PL really don't need an at-large to go against a seeded, home-field team and take a beating. I don't even think having a game that is merely competitive helps the league really look good at this point.

Let our best go, the league champ, and work toward a day with better OOC schedules, some (hopefully) quality OOC wins, and a 8-3 or 9-2 2nd place PL team would have some reason to make some post-season noise, and maybe deservedly so.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At-large possibilites:

10-1 Colgate with a loss to Holy Cross and/or Lafayette, who runs the table
9-2 Holy Cross with a loss to Colgate or Lafayette, who runs the table
9-2 Lafayette with a loss to Colgate or Holy Cross, who runs the table

Would a 10-1 autobid conference team with a loss to the PL champ but with a relatively weak schedule really get denied in favor of a 7-4 CAA team? Maybe, but I have to believe they have the edge.

Would a 9-2 team with a loss the PL Champs and a Top 25 team (Liberty) get denied? Don't know, but that's still a pretty good resume.

Would a 9-2 team with a loss to Brown get denied? Depends how Brown does the rest of the way, but probably.

It's a bit too early to speculate, but I could still see the PL potentially as taking an at-large bid at this point. Let's see what the other teams have to say about it, not to mention Fordham and Lehigh, however. There are a lot of huge PL games left.

[jcmanson]

No way the PL runner up gets in ahead of a 9-2 Liberty. And I don't see a 9-2 Liberty getting in.

[Pard94]

I almost hope the mistake ISN'T made where they get an at-large. Say what you will, but 7-4 teams from tougher conferences, I think, are tremendously more deserving of an at-large. During a year where the league may be down as a whole (yes, with admittedly too much emphasis given to Lehigh's slide as representation of legue-wide slip in quality), fans of the PL really don't need an at-large to go against a seeded, home-field team and take a beating. I don't even think having a game that is merely competitive helps the league really look good at this point.

Let our best go, the league champ, and work toward a day with better OOC schedules, some (hopefully) quality OOC wins, and a 8-3 or 9-2 2nd place PL team would have some reason to make some post-season noise, and maybe deservedly so.

I have to be honest...I just don't see this as a down year for the PL. Since when do we have three trains firing on all cylinders on a collision course on the same track? Anyone of these teams could win the championship without raising many eyebrows. This is a year were we have two of the best QB's ever to play in our league playing at the same time. Both of whom will probably play in the NFL...at the QB position! It's not like we're talking about special teamers.

For the first time in a long time we, as a league, have bested the Ivy league, including a four game sweep by Lafayette that almost certainly has the PL team beating the best team in the IVY. We have a number of pre-season All Americans. We have defenses that ranked nationally in numerous categories. There is serious talk that we may qualify for an at large bid (don't think it will happen but the discussion itself rarely happens). Granted the CAA is a super-league this year. I suppose we are "down" if you compare us to them. Yes, for the time being Lehigh sucks. Check the record and you will see it is Lehigh supporters who generally make this claim. It's kind of thier M.O. at this point. If Lehigh isn't in the mix than the mix itself must suck. The PL has always been a team that generally has 2 or 3 teams seriously vieing for the title. That has not changed. Granted the drop off from team number 3 to 4 is significant. That being said, at this point, any one of the top three wouldn't be looked at as a cake walk in the first round. On the whole I certainly don't remember a year as exciting as this one league wide.

[danefan]

I doubt it highly. Let me save you the suspense. Danefan doesn't think so either. He should be here any minute to tell you all about how the NEC is at least as desreving if not way more deserving than any team in the lowly Patriot League. Shouldn't be long now.

No need, your conference mates have already said everything for me (except for LFN who can't see the forest through the trees). xpeacex

And I'm still waiting for someone to show me how I'm somehow wrong here. And I've never said the PL was a lowly conference. I've only said its the same level as the NEC.

[GannonFan]

I just don't see how it would happen this year. There's going to be the likliehood of an 8-3 CAA team not making it in with a resume far better than what the second place PL team can bring to the table. Insular scheduling against the Ivy League, which just isn't very good, isn't the best resume padding. And having one of the PL's top teams losing at home to a Liberty team, who in turn lost at home to a team that's in the basement of the CAA South and could be a 7 loss team this year is also not good for the resume. It would be a long shot at best this year.

[Doc QB]

Pard94....I think I may have to agree with you now, and am guilty of being a disenchanted homer. I would love two deserving teams from PL get in, and I want them to do well in playoffs, even it is HC or LC. I haven't seen LC, Gate, of HC play yet this year, hoping this weekend will be my first chance.

Either way, I still would hate to see (as would we all) the PL champ and a 8-3,9-2,10-1 PL runner up with an at-large get smoked. I fear it could happen because the gap between PL and CAA/SoCon/MVC playoff teams may be wide at present. But, we won't know until we play the games, which is PRECISELY why we should schedule them as OOC foes and not load up on Ivy's/NEC. Not intended as disrespect to those conferences, but if we aspire to compete with the big dogs nationally, why the hell wait until the playoffs?

[RichH2]

Agree with Doc that LU slide probably slants our view of slide of PL, however even assuming 10-1 auto and a 9-2 2nd place team I would be a bit surprised by 2 bids. It would be nice tho as it would give a more solid view of where the PL really is in the national scape. Could be embarrassing like last but maybe not.

[DFW HOYA]

Unfortunately, I see the PL runner-up getting caught in a strength of schedule issue with wins over Lehigh (with a GPI of 100 out of 125 schools), Bucknell (105) and Georgetown (121; yes, that's very low).

[Pard94]

Agree with Doc that LU slide probably slants our view of slide of PL, however even assuming 10-1 auto and a 9-2 2nd place team I would be a bit surprised by 2 bids. It would be nice tho as it would give a more solid view of where the PL really is in the national scape. Could be embarrassing like last but maybe not.

On that we are in complete agreement. I've said all along that 2 teams from the PL would be a surprise to put it mildly. I just don't think it is because the league is down on the whole. The CAA is nothing less than a juggernaut this year. That's the main reason in my mind. I mean for god's sake...Carney has eluded to the fact that this might (I say might) be the best Lafayette team he has seen in decades. "Black Cloud Carney" said that. This is a guy who not only looks at the half full glass as half empty but the water that remains is very likely lethally contaminated. There's no doubt this is the best HC team since Duffner walked the sidelines. Oddly enough it would appear the undefeated Colgate team has the most "who have you beaten" questions hanging over them. All of this leads me to believe that the league is actually enjoying one of its best years ever.

It would be interesting if the league got two teams in. I'd be willing to bet one of them might just score a win in the first round. Lets we forget, the PL has played well in the first round more times than not. Even in our losses we have scared the crap out of the likes of Appalachian State, JMU, Richmond and Delaware. Many times these teams go on to win the NC. I think the PL teams are better this year than those teams that provided wake up call to the eventual National Champs.

[carney2]

The lack of quality wins looms large. IMO, the only way this could have happened would be with a 10-1 Holy Cross that finished second in the League. Since this is no longer possible,...

[Digby]

The best league OOC game was not a win, but Lafayette's 19-13 loss to Liberty. Liberty could have tried for another six points at the end and did not.
Lafayette's running the Ivy table is interesting but from a national point of view a footnote.
Colgate's wins come over teams that at this time have losing records.
Cross gets some attention because of the QB, but truth be told, there is no reason to give an at-large bid to a PL team this year because of the OOC schedule. If Lafayette had won, that would be the only signature win by the entire league for the year.

[jmufan999]

I believe that a few CAA teams that would likely have a shot at the playoffs are given their walking papers relatively soon. They're going to beat up on each other and eliminate a few likely playoff teams...

your logic is sound, no doubt. but here's what people forget: most CAA teams that are in the playoff hunt will have "good" losses. they haven't lost to any really crappy teams.... their worst losses will be to Delaware, Richmond, Villanova, etc.... and many already have an FBS win.

if you're someone (i don't mean you necessarily, TT, just anyone) hoping this will be the year the CAA gets fewer than 5 teams in, i think you'll be disappointed: simply take out JMU and insert William and Mary. take out Maine and insert UMass. we're getting in 5 again... there will be an even stronger case for 5 this year than there was last year. but regardless, even if we didn't, the extra spot likely wouldn't go to a Patriot at-large anyway due to strength of schedule.

[Ivytalk]

Only if one of the Ivy teams you beat actually wins the title. ;)

What he said!xnodx

Anyway, I agree that SOS issues will limit the PL to the autobid this year.xpeacex

[RichH2]

Would be kind of cool to see PL team get a win in 1st round xthumbsupx, 2 would be astounding. Of course that would not be conducive to the merit aid issue. Regardless, I want PL teams to do wellxnodx

[jmufan999]

whoops, forgot one thing. about the CAA teams having good losses.... some of the CAA teams that people expect to "beat up" on each other, probably won't.... URI, Towson, and Northeastern are terrible as usual. now you can add in JMU to the teams that won't do much "beating up" on any conference opponents (besides Towson). Hofstra is 2-2 in conference but one of those wins is against a very sub-par JMU team. i still see 5 bids.

[GannonFan]

On that we are in complete agreement. I've said all along that 2 teams from the PL would be a surprise to put it mildly. I just don't think it is because the league is down on the whole. The CAA is nothing less than a juggernaut this year. That's the main reason in my mind. I mean for god's sake...Carney has eluded to the fact that this might (I say might) be the best Lafayette team he has seen in decades. "Black Cloud Carney" said that. This is a guy who not only looks at the half full glass as half empty but the water that remains is very likely lethally contaminated. There's no doubt this is the best HC team since Duffner walked the sidelines. Oddly enough it would appear the undefeated Colgate team has the most "who have you beaten" questions hanging over them. All of this leads me to believe that the league is actually enjoying one of its best years ever.

It would be interesting if the league got two teams in. I'd be willing to bet one of them might just score a win in the first round. Lets we forget, the PL has played well in the first round more times than not. Even in our losses we have scared the crap out of the likes of Appalachian State, JMU, Richmond and Delaware. Many times these teams go on to win the NC. I think the PL teams are better this year than those teams that provided wake up call to the eventual National Champs.

The problem is, of course, that if this is Lafayette's best team in decades, one of it's most significant OOC games was a loss, in Easton no less, to a Liberty team that, afterwards, went home and got beat convincingly by a JMU team who subsequently can't beat anyone in the CAA. When the OOC plate is so sparse, having that unfortunate combination of events is going to cast a big shadow. A winless team in CAA play easily wins on the road against a team that won on the road at Lafayette. Tough to argue for their inclusion as an at large, especially over CAA teams that have won multiple CAA games.

[Pards Rule]

Hey I agree - we've got to focus on the PL championship. But recall that in 2005 when LC had an at large thats when we went down to App State. Cant say that wasn't an exciting game.

[Pard94]

The problem is, of course, that if this is Lafayette's best team in decades, one of it's most significant OOC games was a loss, in Easton no less, to a Liberty team that, afterwards, went home and got beat convincingly by a JMU team who subsequently can't beat anyone in the CAA. When the OOC plate is so sparse, having that unfortunate combination of events is going to cast a big shadow. A winless team in CAA play easily wins on the road against a team that won on the road at Lafayette. Tough to argue for their inclusion as an at large, especially over CAA teams that have won multiple CAA games.

Couple of things...I said that one person noted that this MIGHT be Lafayette's best team in decades. The news here is not really the content of the statement as much as the person who made the statement...a noted cynic. That hardly makes it true. But let's say for the sake of argument that it is true and this is Lafayette's best team in decades. I would argue that this team started out looking rather pedestrian. As the coaching staff became more confident in it's new offensive philosophy and the players became more confident in executing that philosophy (a drastic departure from past offenses) this team improved greatly from where it was in week 2 when we lost to Liberty. I'm not sure if Liberty has improved or not but if we were playing them this week I would like our chances a whole lot more than I did in week 2....when we only lost by 6 points. I'd say we made our biggest leaps from week 3 to week 4 and we built on that last week against a Harvardd team that is supposed to be pretty good. We killed them. My point is I think at the beginning of the season I though the preseason pick of 3rd in the league was about right...maybe even generous. IF we became the best Laf team in decades it only happened in the last 3 weeks.

The bigger point remains, however, we all pretty much agree with you that none of that helps us now. We all doubt highly we get two teams in.

[Digby]

Lafayette could have won that ASU game and probably should have beaten Delaware before that. The PL needs to win a playoff game or two scholarships or not and it can. I think.

[Fear the Bird]

Lafayette could have won that ASU game and probably should have beaten Delaware before that. The PL needs to win a playoff game or two scholarships or not and it can. I think.

Gotta love how they "should have beaten Delaware" b/c they had a chance to tie the game in the 4th quarter xwhistlex

Mondoe was a beast that day

[JMUNJ08]

At-large possibilites:

10-1 Colgate with a loss to Holy Cross and/or Lafayette, who runs the table
9-2 Holy Cross with a loss to Colgate or Lafayette, who runs the table
9-2 Lafayette with a loss to Colgate or Holy Cross, who runs the table

Would a 10-1 autobid conference team with a loss to the PL champ but with a relatively weak schedule really get denied in favor of a 7-4 CAA team? Maybe, but I have to believe they have the edge.

Would a 9-2 team with a loss the PL Champs and a Top 25 team (Liberty) get denied? Don't know, but that's still a pretty good resume.

Would a 9-2 team with a loss to Brown get denied? Depends how Brown does the rest of the way, but probably.


The problem with all three teams is their schedules. Because they have an auto bid they do have a leg up on getting into the playoffs. But for this year what makes them different from Liberty last year, 11-0 San Diego a few years ago and Dayton from the Pioneer (I almost forget they still play football)? Not much. If you take out Liberty and insert say, a tough game with Villanova, then that "top 25" loss seems better.

If the schedules get better (See Albany) those at larges may come your way. xthumbsupx

Until then, root for the CAA as they take your spots:)

[wapiti]

The Big Sky could potentially have 4 teams worthy of the playoffs, one of those getting the AQ.
I do not think the BSC will send 4, but for sure 2 and a fair chance of 3.

[Digby]

Transfers are one thing, even if the guy transfers from Oklahoma or Pitt but transfers who have completed degree requirements at another school and then play a year at this level, that seems like some of the big-time fraud creeping into, no barging into, the 1AA level. If somebody has completed their degree, they are done, right? Or at least use that year where you completed it.

[Fear the Bird]

The Big Sky could potentially have 4 teams worthy of the playoffs, one of those getting the AQ.
I do not think the BSC will send 4, but for sure 2 and a fair chance of 3.

For sure NAU and Weber are right there - would think that both teams' fans would be rooting hard for SDSU this weekend? If UNI, SIU, and SDSU all beat each other, that probably takes a spot away from the Big Sky, assuming no crazy CAA losses down the stretch

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think this is going to be a moot point in a couple weeks. Fordham could certainly shock somebody, and it's easy to see the top three teams splitting one win and one loss against each other.

[GannonFan]

Transfers are one thing, even if the guy transfers from Oklahoma or Pitt but transfers who have completed degree requirements at another school and then play a year at this level, that seems like some of the big-time fraud creeping into, no barging into, the 1AA level. If somebody has completed their degree, they are done, right? Or at least use that year where you completed it.

No, I think they NCAA still lets people transfer their remaining athletic elgibility to another school if they graduate early and still want to play sports. It's a tough stance you seem to want to take, that is, punishing the best student athletes out there who work hard and can graduate early by then taking away their remaining eligibility. Luckily, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, although they tend to be anti-student athlete a lot too. xpeacex

[Digby]

Yes the NCAA does, but it should not. If somebody has a degree from Duke or Oklahoma State, either play that injury or redshirt year there, or stop.

[GannonFan]

Yes the NCAA does, but it should not. If somebody has a degree from Duke or Oklahoma State, either play that injury or redshirt year there, or stop.

Again, why do you want to screw the athlete just because they've worked hard and have been successful academically? Who's being harmed by these highly successful student athletes? Heck, how many of them are there per year anyway? A handful at most? Guess they should've spent more time on their sport than in the classroom, eh? xrolleyesx

[carney2]

I said that one person noted that this MIGHT be Lafayette's best team in decades. The news here is not really the content of the statement as much as the person who made the statement...a noted cynic. That hardly makes it true.

I can't imagine who he's talking about, but just feel the love.

[joecooll6]

So a 10-1 Colgate is a no go? I could see Lehigh and Fordham messing this up anyway.

Would a team have to go 9-2 to at least be in the conversation? Do you think they could be considered "out" at 8-3?

What about the MEAC? Are they gonna get 2 bids? OVC? Southland?

[JMUNJ08]

So a 10-1 Colgate is a no go? I could see Lehigh and Fordham messing this up anyway.

Would a team have to go 9-2 to at least be in the conversation? Do you think they could be considered "out" at 8-3?

What about the MEAC? Are they gonna get 2 bids? OVC? Southland?

Not "out" forgotten about really. To be in the conversation, 9-2 for each league mentioned. Southland 9-2 has the best chance I think. Patriot worse.

[danefan]

So a 10-1 Colgate is a no go? I could see Lehigh and Fordham messing this up anyway.

Would a team have to go 9-2 to at least be in the conversation? Do you think they could be considered "out" at 8-3?

What about the MEAC? Are they gonna get 2 bids? OVC? Southland?

I think the SLC will get two (McNeese and SFA) and would have gotten 3 if UCA was eligible.

The OVC would have defeinitely gotten two if Jacksonville State was eligible, but without JSU, I think the OVC only gets the AQ (EKU).

Other than that you'll be looking at at least 3 at-larges from the CAA. That leaves 4 left and there will be one at-large from the MVFC (UNI), Socon (App State prob) and Big Sky (Weber). I could easily see a 4th CAA at-large (UMass), or a 2nd at-large from teh MVFC (SDSU) or the Socon (Furman) before any mid-level conferences.

There just won't be any room left for the following bubble teams:

Big South Champ (likely Liberty (9-2))
NEC Champ (likely Albany (9-2) or Central Ct (10-1))
Patriot 2nd place (Holy Cross (9-2), Colgate (10-1), Lafayette (9-2))
MEAC 2nd place (FAMU (9-2) or Morgan St (9-2))

Could be a pretty good East Coast "NIT"

Albany @ Colgate
Central @ Holy Cross

Lafayette @ FAMU
Morgan State @ Liberty