FBS Bowls could be coming for FCS teams!

[mizzoufan1]

Hey all...

As it currently stands there are 68 bowl slots this year and Only 68 projected bowl eligible teams. If the Bowl eligible teams drops below 68, then expect a "lower tier" bowl to come calling for the Non-Playoff teams.

Would that appeal to you? (not including the BIG paycheck that comes with going to a bowl)

Just thought I would give you all a heads up...

[Native]

Hey all...

As it currently stands there are 68 bowl slots this year and Only 68 projected bowl eligible teams. If the Bowl eligible teams drops below 68, then expect a "lower tier" bowl to come calling for the Non-Playoff teams.

Would that appeal to you? (not including the BIG paycheck that comes with going to a bowl)

Just thought I would give you all a heads up...

Who among the FCS teams ranked 17-25 would get an invitation?!???

[mizzoufan1]

Who among the FCS teams ranked 17-25 would get an invitation?!???

Any of them IF there are no FBS teams to fill the slots.

[UNH Fanboi]

Any of them IF there are no FBS teams to fill the slots.

How would any FCS teams be eligible? According to wikipedia, teams must have a .500 record or better to be eligible, and only 1 FCS win counts towards that record, so no FCS teams would have an eligible record. Or is there some rule saying that if there are not enough eligible teams, the bowls can choose amongst the ineligible teams as they please? If that's the case, I guess maybe they would pick a 7-4 FCS team so they wouldn't have to advertise a 5-7 team. Seems like a very remote possibility though.

[uofmman1122]

I like this idea. Let the playoff contenders crown a champion the way it's supposed to be done, and let FCS teams play FBS teams in games that actually matter.

I have a feeling 17-25 in the FCS poll would do pretty well against the bottom tier bowl eligible teams.

[UMass922]

Who among the FCS teams ranked 17-25 would get an invitation?!???

How about Central Arkansas? Their transition status makes them ineligilble for the NCAA championship, but would it also make them bowl-ineligible, if that unique situation were to come up? Programs that have committed violations like Eastern Washington (pending review) and Jacksonville State would both be bowl-ineligible, I'm guessing, but UCA would seem to be a different case . . .

Anyway, if it comes to a bowl having to take an FCS team, I imagine their biggest priority would be to take a team that has some name recognition among FBS fans, and that has a large fan base that will travel well. Perhaps Grambling or Southern would be a desirable choice? FAMU, maybe? A Delaware or a McNeese State, if they don't make the playoffs?

[Jackman]

Ignoring the glaring problem that no FCS team has a schedule that, even if they went undefeated, would provide them with 6 wins that count towards bowl eligibility, my guess is the Ivy League champion would be among the first in line for a bowl invite since they're not FCS playoff eligible. And I for one would love to know how the Ivies would respond to such an invitation.

[bonarae]

Ignoring the glaring problem that no FCS team has a schedule that, even if they went undefeated, would provide them with 6 wins that count towards bowl eligibility, my guess is the Ivy League champion would be among the first in line for a bowl invite since they're not FCS playoff eligible. And I for one would love to know how the Ivies would respond to such an invitation.

I still don't think the Ivies will approve of this. xsmhx

[tribe_pride]

Hey all...

As it currently stands there are 68 bowl slots this year and Only 68 projected bowl eligible teams. If the Bowl eligible teams drops below 68, then expect a "lower tier" bowl to come calling for the Non-Playoff teams.

Would that appeal to you? (not including the BIG paycheck that comes with going to a bowl)

Just thought I would give you all a heads up...

Based on what others above have written, are you guessing that this is true or have you heard this from a reliable source?

[UMass922]

Based on what others above have written, are you guessing that this is true or have you heard this from a reliable source?

I'm curious about this as well. This isn't the first year I've heard the rumor/assumption that a bowl would have to take an FCS team if there weren't enough FBS teams eligible. But I've never seen any sources/references confirming that this is in fact the NCAA's official policy . . .

[mizzoufan1]

From what I have gathered, I believe to be "bowl eligible" any D-1 team would have to be above .500 against other D-1 competition. The FBS vs. FCS wins thing ONLY applies if more than one game is played by an FBS team against FCS teams. (the same division thing and to prevent teams like K-State and the like from loading up on FCS teams just to be "bowl eligible" at the end of the season.)

Still, It is POSSIBLE that an FCS team could end up in a bowl...wouldn't you all like that idea as well?

[OSBF]

Would that appeal to you? (not including the BIG paycheck that comes with going to a bowl)


That right there is the single biggest mis-conception about toilet bowl football, everyone except the promoter and the sponsor will lose money. By the time you pay travel, hotel, food, and pay for your required ticket allotment, that you may or may not sell, you're in the red.

Found an article couple of years ago about how much money THE ohio state university lost by going to the BCS "championship" game. The absolute best a school can hope to do is to break even.

[813Jag]

New Orleans Bowl anyone? xlolx

[appmaj]

Seems like a stretch but I'd like to see it

[OhioHen]

New Orleans Bowl anyone? xlolx

If the SWAC champion played in this game, the attendance would increase
(at least in most cases). xnodxxnodxxnodx

[PhoenixSupreme]

The scenario will eventually happen where there won't be 68 FBS bowl-eligible teams. 68/120 teams is about 57% of all the teams in the FBS. I believe it was either a year or 2 years ago, we only had 71 eligible teams competing for the 68 spots (must have been embarrassing for the 3 left out). I know more than half of FBS teams will get their 6 wins (mainly because a lot of the border teams get that last win off of a FCS school), but sooner or later this issue will occur.

[EmeryZach]

Yeah Tuesday night bowl game vs. SunBelt!!! Yeah!!! WOOOOH!!! Sooo Excited!!!!

[UMass922]

If the SWAC champion played in this game, the attendance would increase
(at least in most cases). xnodxxnodxxnodx

xnodx I imagine that, for attendance purposes at least, almost any lower-tier bowl would much rather have one of the prominent HBCUs (e.g. Grambling, Southern, FAMU) than some middle-of-the-pack MAC, WAC, or Sun Belt team.

[Dane96]

I dont know what y'all are smoking...but the requirement is EXTREMELY clear that you can have only 1 FCS win on your schedule to get to eligibility.

No one in FCS would qualify because we will have no teams that have played 6 or more FBS games.

Unless I am BEYOND SORELY mistaken...and I will eat my crow then.

[Dane96]

All it takes is 2 seconds of research. It ends in the first sentence for ALL FCS teams. Even if there are NO bowl eligible teams...there absolutely is no way an FCS team can go in according to the By-Laws. If they ammend it...that is one thing...but I highly doubt they will. FYI:

Deserving Winning Team
A deserving winning team is defined as one that wins a minimum of six games against
Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) competition and has a record that includes more wins
than losses. [Exception: Each year, a FBS institution may count a victory against a Football
Championship Subdivision (FCS) opponent that has averaged 90 percent of the permissible
maximum number of grants-in-aid per year in FCS over a rolling two-year period.]
Per NCAA Bylaw 30.9.2.1 an institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be
selected for participation in a bowl game if 1) the institution or its conference has a primary
contractual affiliation, which existed prior to the first contest of the applicable season, with
the sponsoring bowl organization. In the case of a conference contractual affiliation, all
conference teams with winning records must be placed in one of the contracted bowl games
before any institution with a record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted
bowl game; and 2) all contractual affiliations have been fulfilled and all institutions with
winning records have received bowl invitations (either through a contractual affiliation or
as an at-large selection).

In the case of a conference contractual affiliation, all conference teams with winning
records must be placed in one of the contracted bowl games before any institution with a
record of six wins and six losses may be placed in a contracted bowl game. There shall be
no contingency agreements with other sponsoring bowl organizations intended to enable an
institution with a record of six wins and six losses to become eligible for those contests.
FBS contests played in Hawaii are exempt from NCAA legislation limiting a season
to 12 games, but this competition does count in the six-win requirement. An institution
that participates in an exempt contest, however, must have more wins than losses against
Division I FBS opponents to be eligible to participate in a bowl game, even if it meets the
six-win requirement

Open Bowl Situation
When an open bowl situation develops due to the fact one or both of the original
conferences are unable to provide a bowl-eligible team, the value of the conditions of the
contractual arrangements negotiated by the conferences and the sponsoring agency may
not be increased, but may be reduced, when teams from other conferences are invited to
participate.

Bowl Selections Involving Teams with Winning and 6-6 Records
If a situation exists where two or more bowls have at-large positions available, due to the
inability of their primary conferences to provide teams with winning and/or 6-6 records, and
there are not enough teams with winning records to fill these berths, then the bowls would
have to consider teams with 6-6 records as well. In this situation, the following procedures
will be followed:
1. The involved bowls will be requested to seek agreement for accommodating the team
(or teams) with a winning record (e.g., 7-5 or better) and those with 6-6 records.
2. If the involved bowls are unable to establish an agreement for accommodating the
team (or teams) with a winning record and those with 6-6 records, a bowl selection
order shall be determined by a drawing. The name of each bowl shall be included
in the drawing, which shall be conducted by the Postseason Football Licensing
Subcommittee. The drawing shall determine selection order of the involved bowls
(i.e., bowl drawn first shall have first choice of all teams at or above .500 or with 6-6
records, as permitted by NCAA rules). It should be noted that all teams with records
above .500 must be accommodated by bowls included in this drawing.

Two Conference Teams in Same Bowl Game
Two teams from the same conference may participate in a bowl game, but the team filling
the open side of the bowl must meet existing selection criteria (winning team or a 6-6 team
that is subject to existing selection criteria in as much as the open spot would not be part of
the primary contract between the bowl game and the conference).
Clarification of Selection Procedures
The following items provide clarification to selection procedure questions that have been
brought to the subcommittee in previous years.
1. A conference may not vacate one of its contracted commitments in order to provide
its team to an at-large sport in another bowl game that cannot fill its spots.
2. A conference team that is 6-6 and plays in a conference championship game and
loses to finish with a record of 6-7 may apply for a waiver to allow that team to be
considered for a postseason bowl. Conditions that will be considered in such a waiver
include whether or not all other conference teams under consideration have 6-6 records
and there are not a sufficient number of winning teams to meet the conference’s bowl
commitments.
3. A bowl may not opt out of a contractual agreement with a conference in order to
secure a commitment from another conference without NCAA approval in as much
as a bowl’s license is based on its primary agreement with Conference A.

[UMass922]

It's still not clear to me what happens if there aren't enough six-win teams to fill all the bowl slots . . .

[Dane96]

It doesnt matter-- THE FCS TEAMS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE AT ALL. They cant go over the first hurdle of having played and beat 6 FBS teams.

It's really simple.

What likely will happen is they will go to a 5-6 team.

[eastbayaggie]

Found an article couple of years ago about how much money THE ohio state university lost by going to the BCS "championship" game. The absolute best a school can hope to do is to break even.

Do you have a link to this article? I think this would be an interesting read. If that article cannot be found, then how does a BCS school lose money in a BCS "championship" game?

[Dane96]

No way they lose money unless they were paying for a TON of people to prop along...and that is there own fault.

Fact, in 2006 and in 2007 each Big Ten school received a $2 and 2.7mm payout respectively AFTER expenses. The champion, just like in the NCAA Hoop Tourney payout structure, of the conference receives a bigger payout. If Ohio State lost coin...it is based on booster ass kissing.

Each team in the Ohio State game in 2009 received 17.5 million, which goes into the kitty of coin that is funded by all the bowl games from the conference. Expenses, including travel and media fees, are paid out first...then championship money and appearance fees are paid out...then the profits are divied out equally amongst member schools.

The Big Ten received $35mm for Penn State and Ohio State's appearance. Throw in the other payouts...and the Big Ten received (guessing on this) likely close to just under 46mm or so.

NO WAY the member schools lost money. NOT A CHANCE IN HADES!

[UMass922]

It doesnt matter-- THE FCS TEAMS ARE NOT ELIGIBLE AT ALL. They cant go over the first hurdle of having played and beat 6 FBS teams.

It's really simple.

What likely will happen is they will go to a 5-6 team.

But according to those same "really simple" rules, a 5-6 FBS team is NOT ELIGIBLE AT ALL either. So, something has to give.

I agree that it's much more likely that a 5-6 team would be selected, but I can understand why people might speculate about an FCS team taking a bowl spot. When the two basic criteria for bowl egilibility are 1.) having a winning record, and 2.) having six FBS wins, at least an 8-3 FCS team meets one of those criteria, whereas a 5-6 FBS team meets neither.

Anyway, most years a 5-6 SEC or Big 12 team is probably better than many of the bowl-eligible teams from the weakest conferences anyway, so if it came to giving a bowl spot to a team with a losing record, I don't think it would necessarily be watering down the bowl season anymore than it already is.

[Dane96]

This is basic legal reading:

While a 5-6 team is not eligible...they are at least playing enough FBS teams to get to that level. Plus, there are "outs" for an open bowl to negotiate, which means the intent is there to work within a pool of those teams who have a reasonable chance to get to 6 Bowl eligible wins.

NO FCS team can get to any level of consideration based on the intent...and the intent is a winning record AGAINST BOWL ELIGIBLE TEAMS.

That said, your last statement is 100% correct.

[JSUBison]

Dane96 is correct. Don't you all remember the discussion about this back in 2007 when NDSU was in transition hell, sporting an undefeated record and not eligible for the playoffs? In case you have forgotten, NDSU did not go to a bowl game. xrulesx

[Go...gate]

Who among the FCS teams ranked 17-25 would get an invitation?!???

Why not Colgate, Lafayette or Holy Cross??

[OSBF]

Do you have a link to this article? I think this would be an interesting read. If that article cannot be found, then how does a BCS school lose money in a BCS "championship" game?


No way they lose money unless they were paying for a TON of people to prop along...and that is there own fault.


NO WAY the member schools lost money. NOT A CHANCE IN HADES!

The little OSU nugget was burried in an artical I read. I've posted links here to these same articals a dozen or so times, but in the interest of factual accuracy, I'll be happy to do so again. FACT: most colleges/universities will lose big $$ by going to a bowl. The dirty little secret of toliet bowl division NCAA football no one wants to talk about. PLEASE take some time to read through the following links.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfc/sfcfs69.htm (old, from 2000)

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=jo-bowlfacts121908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-bowls121808&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

http://www.econ.rochester.edu/eco108/ch20/123097fbc-tv-sports.html

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/sports/texas-tech-lost-200k-on-gator-bowl-1.917071#

[Dane96]

Ok..for one...you said Ohio State lost money a few years ago, something I knew was factually incorrect. Second, an article from 2000 isnt exactly something I place strength in-- times have changed.

That said...your new argument makes more sense; yes, the average school loses money...but the schools in the BCS are generally making money. The ones that lose are paying for booster trips...etc.

Remember, these same schools report that they break even on all their sports vs. expenditures. It is all funny accounting. But when a school in a BCS conference makes $2mm in Conference payouts...they should not be losing money; at worst they are breaking even.

The smaller conferences will absolutely lose money unless they sell their huge ticket allotment. Only schools in the WAC or MWC (Utah and Boise) would come close to selling those tickets.

Your Tech article comes closest to the truth, but also proves my point-- there is no reason a school has to travel with 750 people to a game. That is ridiculous...and I guarantee you at least 200 were booster related people. ("With [750] people traveling, it gets very expensive very quickly," Gleason said. "So we basically hope to break even on that travel allowance each year. We hope that we spend a little bit less than what it is, but it does take most of that money to travel." )
The first rival article explains it all-- "The reason the WAC and other conferences can continue to survive without filing for bankruptcy is (sorry, playoff fans) the BCS." Your articles support the theory that smaller conference teams lose money, not larger ones. Your statement was about Ohio State...and we know where they stand. Your argument is not supported by the facts found within the articles....most of which are VASTLY OUTDATED and dont reflect the new massive paydays subsidized by BIG TIME TV MONEY (such as your 1997 article).

[BDKJMU]

That right there is the single biggest mis-conception about toilet bowl football, everyone except the promoter and the sponsor will lose money. By the time you pay travel, hotel, food, and pay for your required ticket allotment, that you may or may not sell, you're in the red.

Found an article couple of years ago about how much money THE ohio state university lost by going to the BCS "championship" game. The absolute best a school can hope to do is to break even.

Even if that is the case (I'd like to see the article) most of the BCS conferences split their bowl revenue. In other words, Ohio State got half the pot. The other half went to the Big Ten, along with half the pot from the other 5-7 Big Ten bowl team's bowl revenue. All of that would then be divided evenly among the 11 teams. That probably worked out to a couple of million per team.

Back in 05'-06' Ohio State had a 28.5 million net profit.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2007-01-04-ohiostate-finances-cover_x.htm

I'm sure its higher now.

[unicat87]

Dane96 is correct. Don't you all remember the discussion about this back in 2007 when NDSU was in transition hell, sporting an undefeated record and not eligible for the playoffs? In case you have forgotten, NDSU did not go to a bowl game. xrulesx

Which was an injustice to a terrific team which would have been very competitive in a bowl game. Unfortunately, no exception could be made. -unicat87

[EKU05]

First of all, there are no "5-6" teams in FBS anymore. They play 12 games, so we'd be talking 5-7 (potentially 6-7 in an unusual situation where a team won it's division of a conferene while going 6-6 overall). Also, all you have to do is look at history to find your answer. North Texas played in the 2001 New Orleans Bowl with a 5-6 record because they managed to win the Sun Belt conference...so there is precident for making an exception in unusual circumstances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_New_Orleans_Bowl

[appfan2008]

not gonna happen... i dont think schools would go for that anyway...

[OSBF]

Florida and Ohio State together ran up more than $5 million in expenses at the 2007 BCS Championship, finishing with a combined deficit of more than $600,000.




http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bowl-schools-last-1949560-bcs-games

[Dane96]

keep posting whatever you want...go back to my original statement: THEY LOST MONEY BECAUSE THEY OVERSPENT...no reason to have a 800 person travelling party.

[OSBF]

keep posting whatever you want...go back to my original statement: THEY LOST MONEY BECAUSE THEY OVERSPENT...no reason to have a 800 person travelling party.


I said they lost money.

You said they did not.

I posted the evidence.

You were wrong.

Man-up.

[Dane96]

I am not wrong-- they lost money because they hired babysiters for staff.

When most people go to work they dont have babysiters hired for their families.

And what about sales of goods...etc.....from the game. That is a slanted article that doesnt tell the whole tale of conference splits.

I already posted the OTHER facts that dispute this.

Done with you (as I usually am).