AGS Poll Week 7 Results

[AGSPoll]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25

(First place votes in parenthesis), Points
1. Richmond (95) 2470
2. Montana (3) 2319
3. Southern Illinois (1) 2283
4. Villanova 2146
5. William & Mary 1958
6. Northern Iowa 1944
7. Elon 1852
8. Appalachian St. 1701
9. New Hampshire 1695
10. South Carolina St. 1395
11. South Dakota St. 1334
12. McNeese St. 1178
13. Stephen F. Austin 1099
14. Jacksonville St. 1071
15. Massachusetts 1064
16. Weber St. 1018
17. Delaware 982
18. Central Arkansas 934
19. Cal Poly 757
20. Colgate 670
21. Furman 444
22. Eastern Kentucky 335
23. Liberty 305
24. Northern Arizona 281
25. Holy Cross 210

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Eastern Washington (46), Florida A&M (25), Eastern Illinois (24), Prairie View A&M (19), Montana St. (18), James Madison (16), Lafayette (12), Central Connecticut St. (6)

MOST SIGNIFICANT WIN OF THE WEEK: Southern Illinois
MOST SIGNIFICANT LOSS OF THE WEEK: Northern Iowa

[89Hen]

12. McNeese St. 1178
13. Stephen F. Austin 1099

15. Massachusetts 1064
17. Delaware 982
I don't like the order of either of those. xconfusedx

[bluehenbillk]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....

[tribe_pride]

UNH got dropped more than they should have for a close loss away at a top 20 rival.

[89Hen]

12. McNeese St. 1178
13. Stephen F. Austin 1099

15. Massachusetts 1064
17. Delaware 982
Don't like the order of those two pairs, but xcoffeex


I also don't agree with SIU/UNI being the most significant. Both are still looking good for the playoffs, the same can't be said for the loser of the SCSU/FAMU game. xpeacex

[ISUMatt]

I have several problems with the poll, but overall, the teams in there look pretty decent

[UNHFootballAlum]

I think that NAU is too low and UNI is too high with a loss at home

[JoshUCA]

OK...how is McNeese still ahead of SFA and we drop so low after we we lost to them?

[UNHFootballAlum]

UNH got dropped more than they should have for a close loss away at a top 20 rival.

I agree with this

[Silenoz]

Hah, McNeese still ahead of SFA

[93henfan]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....

Yep.

[danefan]

why is Eastern Kentucky ranked?

[93henfan]

Weber State above Delaware. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? .

Yes. You obviously haven't seen them play.

[ISUMatt]

When you have around 100 voters, I think you get a good consensus so yea there will be alot of displacement, but it is the majority decision apparently

[WestCoastAggie]

[QUOTE=bluehenbillk;1439180]Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??
QUOTE]

This is the question of the week but quite a few think so. xthumbsupx However they will probably drop a spot or two next week unless teams in the top 10 lose.

[WMTribe90]

McNeese is too high and should be below SFA. UNH dropped too much and should be above Elon and ASU. NAU should be higher. Cal Poly should be lower. Not convinced SCST is a top 10 team either.

[WestCoastAggie]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....


This is the question of the week but quite a few think so. xthumbsupx However they will probably drop a spot or two next week unless teams in the top 10 lose.

[Pard4Life]

UNH got dropped more than they should have for a close loss away at a top 20 rival.

Wow; you are right. I dropped
them from 3 to 6 I believe.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Delaware probably should be a lot closer to the top 10. I hammered a few teams in my ballot this week (including UNH) as well. And thank goodness we havent had the usual revolt from Albany fans about not being ranked...

[93henfan]

So, Delaware drops in the poll.

Lesson learned here: When you have a 49-0 lead on an opponent in the third quarter, DO NOT LET UP. KEEP IN YOUR STARTERS. BEAT THEM 98-0 SO THE VOTERS DON'T FORGET YOU EXIST AND DROP YOU BELOW THE UMASS TEAM YOU SIMILARLY CLOBBERED LAST WEEK.

[Pard4Life]

Counting down the days until Fraudgate is booted from the polls. Sure a struggle against Princeton can happen.. but two weeks in a row, and to Gtown? I read the play by play sheet and it wasn't a fluke.

[Native]

Don't like the order of those two pairs, but xcoffeex

... xpeacex

Concur. My vote still has UD one place above Umass and SFA above McNeese.

With only four DI wins and a very tough four game schedule remaining, I don't think UD has a snowball's chance of finishing higher than 6-4 DI, but I am satisfied to keep them in the spot they have earned and let them fall naturally.

[89Hen]

With only four DI wins and a very tough four game schedule remaining, I don't think UD has a snowball's chance of finishing higher than 6-4 DI, but I am satisfied to keep them in the spot they have earned and let them fall naturally.
They have a tough road ahead, but you are correct that they should still be above UMass. The McNeese/SFA makes me think people are not paying attention. xsmhx

[MacThor]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....

Agreed. At this point, UD is on the cusp of the top 10. Only losses to #1 and #5, and some good wins.

CAA round robin already rearing its ugly head --> UNH beat Villanova beat W&M beat UD beat UMass beat UNH.

[iceman4221]

McNeese is too high and should be below SFA. UNH dropped too much and should be above Elon and ASU. NAU should be higher. Cal Poly should be lower. Not convinced SCST is a top 10 team either.

You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!! xsmhx

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary... xpeacex

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!! xsmiley_wix

[KAUMASS]

Surprised Delaware is above UMass..but that's why I don't vote anymore..I would have SC State around 18th as well. UD should be around 13th right now IMO.

[bluehenbillk]

Yes. You obviously haven't seen them play.

Thanks, but I have ESPNU, the official network of the MEAC. I've seen them play.

[89Hen]

You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!! xsmhx

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary... xpeacex

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!! xsmiley_wix
xlolx xthumbsupx Welcome to the boards.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette got only 12 votes? Interesting... wonder who voted for them? I didn't even vote for them... I like the low tally.

[KAUMASS]

You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!! xsmhx

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary... xpeacex

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!! xsmiley_wix


Ask Virginia..they will tell you..

Welcome to the AGS board..have your ducks in line with this crowd..

[WestCoastAggie]

So, Delaware drops in the poll.

Lesson learned here: When you have a 49-0 lead on an opponent in the third quarter, DO NOT LET UP. KEEP IN YOUR STARTERS. BEAT THEM 98-0 SO THE VOTERS DON'T FORGET YOU EXIST AND DROP YOU BELOW THE UMASS TEAM YOU SIMILARLY CLOBBERED LAST WEEK.

And be mindful of what a team does earlier in the season and not focus on the current week at hand.

[WestCoastAggie]

You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!! xsmhx

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary... xpeacex

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!! xsmiley_wix

Just prove it on the field and the answers shall come.

[OhioHen]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?

[89Hen]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?
Better than many of the ORV's in the Sports Network Poll. xnodx

[bjtheflamesfan]

JMU hasnt been in my poll the last couple weeks...they were supposed to be a player in the CAA and they (I think) have not won a game in conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lafayette got only 12 votes? Interesting... wonder who voted for them? I didn't even vote for them... I like the low tally.

Why wouldn't I vote for the best team in the Patriot League this year? xconfusedx

[UMass922]

Hah, McNeese still ahead of SFA

Not only that, why is Appalachian State still ahead of both of them?

[mcveyrl]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?

Yea, my theory was that nobody actually had us 16 or 17 last week, we just showed up in enough polls where others weren't to make it up. Now I'm a little baffled.

In the admins defense, they have in the past ALWAYS chided me for having a 2-4ish type team in the poll, but deferred to my judgment if there was a good faith argument for it. My guess is the voters justified their ballot, but I'm not sure how. BUT, if I had to guess it would be something about us losing to #1 and #5 (which was predicted in our preseason ranking of 6) and then laying an egg against Hofstra as our only horrible showing (although I was there Saturday...that was horrible). Again, I didn't have us in, but I've had worse reasons than this and they've allowed it.

[blur2005]

CAA round robin already rearing its ugly head --> UNH beat Villanova beat W&M beat UD beat UMass beat UNH.
Not only is the CAA the strongest conference, it also confuses pollsters more than any other...

[PantherRob82]

I think that NAU is too low and UNI is too high with a loss at home

How does a loss to another Top 5 team drop you lower than 6? xconfusedx

[UMass922]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....

No kidding. I have no idea how something like that happens. A lot of voters apparently have very short memories. xsmhx

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....

Your comments are right on target in every way. UMass should move up with a huge win, but no way do they jump Delaware who outright destroyed them the previous week, ... on that note, Delaware should be much higher, too, ...

... and by extension, UNH loses on the last play of the game to a Top 20 team and drops 6 spots despite the previous week defeating the #2 team in the nation, ...

CAA's strength is its own worst enemy when it comes to polls voted upon by fans of other conferences.

[WMTribe90]

You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!!

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary...

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!!

We played at Norfolk State and the game was not competitive. NSU scored two late TD's when WM pulled starters and the game was never in question.

When the MEAC actually wins a playoff game then we can talk about top ten rankings. That said, I have a healthy respect for this SCST team and have them at #15 in my poll. They may even be better than that ranking, but the resume isn't there to leap frog any fo the teams ahead of them.

[DOME]

How does a loss to another Top 5 team drop you lower than 6? xconfusedx

Because we played like crap the last two weeks. Defense didn't show up in Fargo and the Offense didn't show up for Homecoming. Who knows if either will show up next weekend.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Ive been pretty low on the Blue Hens with my votes this year but thats mostly due to a methodology I developed back before the season when I was looking at what LUs season would be like.

Ask yourself this question: What is the difference between an average team, a good team and a great team?

The way I see it, the difference is in how a team responds with new players (or coaches). In my opinion, the average teams will not necessarily get better (although they can and they will probably show improvement in some areas), but they may not necessarily get worse. They just kinda...stay where they are at. A lot of teams fall in that average category (in that 5-6 sometimes even 7 win category).

The good teams they could stay the same, but more than likely they will get better. There is marked improvement in many if not all areas and they win between Id say 7 and 9 games and maybe even 10 if the schedule is right. LU is getting into that good category. In I-AA/FCS terms, these are the teams who often are in the discussion for at large bids to the playoffs, sometimes even getting at large bids. They often are in that top 3 or 4 (maybe 5) teams in their conference too. In I-A/FBS terms, these are your teams that regularly get New Years Eve or New Years Day bowl games (and even win many times) but they are not quite at the level of competing for a national championship. Theyll even have a rebuilding year every so often but they always manage to do well.

The great teams however, when new coaches come in or when new players come in, they ONLY get better. These are the upper echelon teams in I-AA/FCS and I-A/FBS. These are the teams that ALWAYS go to the playoffs, and even get to the national championship (or win it). These are the teams that just getting to a New Year's Day bowl is a disappointment. There are not a lot of "great" teams in I-AA/FCS or I-A/FBS but they are there. App State is getting to the point of being a "great" team. Teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Florida and USC are "great" teams. To revert to D-III for sake of argument, Mount Union is a "great" team.

In summary, I do not think that we are going to lose three games (or four) simply on basis of us having lost a lot of starters and bringing in new players (or stepping up players on the depth chart). Now in counterpoint, it may not be safe to say we are going to simply roll over everybody (except WVU) because of past history. I simply think that LU is going to get better just as they have the last three years. Now does that mean they are a "great" team? Not yet. Can they be? Absolutely...

Delaware last year was not good...at all...the year before they were very good...before that they were average. This year they are doing pretty well but Im still not totally sold on them. If they can string together some wins to close the year out I'll have them solidly in the top 10 but I really think they need to put together some consistently good records before they really are a regular top 5-10 team.

[UNHFootballAlum]

How does a loss to another Top 5 team drop you lower than 6? xconfusedx

It was at the UNI Dome. I had you at 8

[WestCoastAggie]

We played at Norfolk State and the game was not competitive. NSU scored two late TD's when WM pulled starters and the game was never in question.

When the MEAC actually wins a playoff game then we can talk about top ten rankings. That said, I have a healthy respect for this SCST team and have them at #15 in my poll. They may even be better than that ranking, but the resume isn't there to leap frog any fo the teams ahead of them.

While I agree with you Tribe90 about the fair questions towards SCSU's top 10 ranking this week, the fact that we are not just looking at what MEAC brought into the season and looking at a Conference's succes, or lack thereof in the playoffs is kinda not fair to this team. They have to play with the cards that are dealt and they earned alot of "respect" from App. St. and other posters and are building upon that.

As long as they keep beating up on the teams they are suppose to, they will justify this ranking. They are not Hampton!xsmiley_wix

[ToTheLeft]

Lafayette got only 12 votes? Interesting... wonder who voted for them? I didn't even vote for them... I like the low tally.

Guilty.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Weber State above Delaware. xlolx

East Coast Bias. xlolx

[ToTheLeft]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?

I totally agree.

[putter]

I agree about SC ST Aggie. last years game against App showed me that SCST had a quality team and certainly did not pull a "Hampton" with their performance. You develop respect and they have continued their play from last year and the ranking is the result of their success.

[SumItUp]

Delaware last year was not good...at all...the year before they were very good...before that they were average.

You might want to do a little research BJ. (Hint: Look up the 2003 National Champions)

[danefan]

Lafayette got only 12 votes? Interesting... wonder who voted for them? I didn't even vote for them... I like the low tally.


I don't vote in the AGS poll anymore, but I did vote for Lafayette in the CS.com poll. And I did so at the expense of Colgate, which I did not include in the Top 25.

EDIT: I realized a mistake and amended my vote in the CS.com poll. Because of that mistake, the Pards didn't end up in my poll. #26 though.

[JMUNJ08]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?

Wasn't Youngstown St. in the polls at 2-3 or 2-4 last year with some ugly games and players quitting? The problem is the lack of teams to throw over them once you get towards the end of the ballot I assume. They are not top 25 but they sure aren't Lehigh.

[UMass922]

Better than many of the ORV's in the Sports Network Poll. xnodx

I haven't looked at the TSN poll yet, but please don't tell me Harvard is still receiving votes somehow. xlolx

[ToTheLeft]

I don't vote in the AGS poll anymore, but I did vote for Lafayette in the CS.com poll. And I did so at the expense of Colgate, which I did not include in the Top 25.

Wanted to let you know that the Danes cracked my top 25... in addition to the Pards.

[danefan]

I haven't looked at the TSN poll yet, but please don't tell me Harvard is still receiving votes somehow. xlolx


Others receiving votes: Eastern Washington 236, James Madison 216, Prairie View A&M 213, Florida A&M 186, Lafayette 120, Furman 98, Montana State 89, Morgan State 76, Chattanooga 51, Albany 38, Youngstown State 36, UC Davis 35, Butler 28, Southeastern Louisiana 28, Gardner-Webb 18, Hofstra 17, Old Dominion 16, Central Connecticut State 15, Missouri State 14, Jacksonville 13, Brown 11, Grambling State 11, Maine 11, Georgia Southern 10, Harvard 5, Tennessee Tech 5, Texas State 5, North Dakota 5, Illinois State 4, Penn 4, Southern 3, Southern Utah 2, Dayton 1, Drake 1, Murray State 1. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[bjtheflamesfan]

You might want to do a little research BJ. (Hint: Look up the 2003 National Champions)

I did...I was looking at the last three seasons...look at their records SINCE that championship:

2004: 9-4 (lost to W&M in the Quarters)
2005: 6-5 (failed to make playoffs)
2006: 5-6 (failed to make playoffs)
2007: 11-4 (lost to App State in NC game)
2008: 4-8 (failed to make plaoffs)

In the 5 seasons SINCE they won the NC, they have missed the playoffs three times and had a losing record twice.

[UMass922]

Others receiving votes: Eastern Washington 236, James Madison 216, Prairie View A&M 213, Florida A&M 186, Lafayette 120, Furman 98, Montana State 89, Morgan State 76, Chattanooga 51, Albany 38, Youngstown State 36, UC Davis 35, Butler 28, Southeastern Louisiana 28, Gardner-Webb 18, Hofstra 17, Old Dominion 16, Central Connecticut State 15, Missouri State 14, Jacksonville 13, Brown 11, Grambling State 11, Maine 11, Georgia Southern 10, Harvard 5, Tennessee Tech 5, Texas State 5, North Dakota 5, Illinois State 4, Penn 4, Southern 3, Southern Utah 2, Dayton 1, Drake 1, Murray State 1. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Old habits die hard for some folks, I guess. xlolx

[JMUNJ08]

No one should complain about the AGS poll once they have seen the TSN poll. UD 19 UMASS 14xoopsx

[89Hen]

the fact that we are not just looking at what MEAC brought into the season and looking at a Conference's succes, or lack thereof in the playoffs is kinda not fair to this team. They have to play with the cards that are dealt..
I think a better saying is, "you made your bed"...

What has the MEAC done this year to make anyone think this year will be different?

FAMU > TennSt
SCSU > Grambling
Morgan > Towson
Howard > Georgetown
Bethune > Savannah St
NCA&T > NCCU
Hampton > NCCU
Norfolk > Virginia State

Shaw > Bethune
UC Davis > WSSU
AAMU > Hampton
Coastal > NCA&T
W&M > Norfolk
Delaware > DelSt

I don't see a single quality win there and I see at least one really bad loss.

[Pard4Life]

Wanted to let you know that the Danes cracked my top 25... in addition to the Pards.

Interesting. My guess is that Liberty fans would vote for the Pards, thanks guys. And LFN of course. I have Liberty at 23 if it means anything, which it might. Those crazy computer polls have the Flames as a top bubble team.

I'm waiting on voting Albany/CCSU until their game. I like Albany better on paper though.

[WrenFGun]

...Holy Cross lost to Brown..

I have no idea how I'd do it (and thus, didn't vote this week) but UNH beat Villanova (the #4 team in the country) and are 5 spots behind them. UD beat UMass by a ton, and UMass beat UNH, and yet UD is behind both teams? In my estimation, you really need to clump 'Nova/UMass/UNH/UD/W&M together..I think if I did vote they would be back to back to back to back to back in some indeterminate order. With that said, the way voters voted ('Nova and W&M as top two) then UNH is WAY too low, considering they beat 'Nova, and UD/UMass are way too low, considering UMass beat UNH and UD beat UMass..

*Head explodes*

[89Hen]

In the 5 seasons SINCE they won the NC, they have missed the playoffs three times and had a losing record twice.
What was the point again? xconfusedx

You do know that in 2002 the Hens were 6-6?

[93henfan]

I did...I was looking at the last three seasons...look at their records SINCE that championship:

2004: 9-4 (lost to W&M in the Quarters)
2005: 6-5 (failed to make playoffs)
2006: 5-6 (failed to make playoffs)
2007: 11-4 (lost to App State in NC game)
2008: 4-8 (failed to make plaoffs)

In the 5 seasons SINCE they won the NC, they have missed the playoffs three times and had a losing record twice.

Yeah. 40-29 over five seasons (plus 5-2 this year) in the CAA, including three road playoff games and a trip to Chatty. We suck. xrolleyesx

[bjtheflamesfan]

The point is Im not seeing consistency...good teams do not miss the playoffs 3 times in 5 years. Good teams dont finish 4-8 the year after going to the national championship game. I had you guys at 16 in my ballot this week. Keep the wins coming and youll keep moving up. Put together another season like this next year and you wont leave the top 10 in my ballot all year

[ToTheLeft]

Interesting. My guess is that Liberty fans would vote for the Pards, thanks guys. And LFN of course. I have Liberty at 23 if it means anything, which it might. Those crazy computer polls have the Flames as a top bubble team.

I'm waiting on voting Albany/CCSU until their game. I like Albany better on paper though.

Yeah, depending on who you ask we're either not in the equation or we're on the outside of the bubble. Laffy's success helps us a lot. Get a PL championship and we'll be fans of the Pards forever.

[iceman4221]

Ask Virginia..they will tell you..

Now there's a top 50 I-A School to really measure your program off of - HELL they have at least 25 Bowl wins in there illustrious Football History and normally in the TOP 25 every season for the past 25 years... They usually win the ACC and average 9-3 seasons for the last 2 decades... xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx Give it a rest, Virginia is not Virginia Tech... xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

xthumbsupx xsmiley_wix I will address you again after Duke plays this GREAT UVA Team... IMHO, UVA is a Basketball school more note for Ralph Sampson than for their prowess on the gridiron... xsmiley_wix xthumbsupx

xnodx xnodx Do all that you can do to convince the Playoff Committee at the end of this season and, if that happens I will guarantee you that this 2009 edition of the SCSU Bulldogs will beat William & Mary by at least 1 point and get the all important "W"... And that's not smack that's just confidence and knowing what product you have and what they are capable of doing... xnodx xnodx

Better yet have your School and W&M's Athletic Director call up Charlene Johnson our Athletics Director [email protected] 536-7242 or Octavio Miro Associate Athletics Director [email protected] 536-8263, so we can get a home-home so the speculation about SCSU's program can either be dismissed or affirmed...

[iceman4221]

I agree about SC ST Aggie. last years game against App showed me that SCST had a quality team and certainly did not pull a "Hampton" with their performance. You develop respect and they have continued their play from last year and the ranking is the result of their success.

Now there's a sweet vote of confidence, we thank you... And we will do our part to affirm your thoughts.... TRUST!!!

[ISUMatt]

16 voters have JMU in the top 25? And the poll administrators ALLOW this?

U want to have 20% of the pollsters votes thrown out?!?!

[MR. CHICKEN]

IMO.....#19 UMA$$'s WIN.....&.....#3 NEW HAMPSHIRE's LOSS.......IS MO' SIGNIFICANT...DAN....#5 S. ILLINOIS...&...#2 N. IOWA.........2 THRU 5...COOD EASILY BE INTERCHANGED....AWK!

[letsgopards04]

Lafayette got only 12 votes? Interesting... wonder who voted for them? I didn't even vote for them... I like the low tally.

I did. My 20-25 I reserve for reaches in some cases. I think I put the Pards 24th and I think they deserve it.

[aggiemba]

How does UC Davis not have at least 5 votes? This has got to be downright proof of East Coast bias if there ever was any.

As a reminder: UC Davis has 3 loses.

1. Montana (currently the #2 team in FCS)
2. Fresno ( currently the #36 team in FBS)
3. Boise (currently the #5 team in FBS)

Sure we got crushed by Fresno, but I would argue we played Montana and Boise very very respectably.

Anyway, I invite any of the East Coast "powerhouses" to come play that schedule and see where your chips fall.

LONG LIVE THE EAST COAST BIAS! xmadxxmadxxmadxxmadx

[89Hen]

xnodx xnodx Do all that you can do to convince the Playoff Committee at the end of this season and, if that happens I will guarantee you that this 2009 edition of the SCSU Bulldogs will beat William & Mary by at least 1 point and get the all important "W"... And that's not smack that's just confidence and knowing what product you have and what they are capable of doing... xnodx xnodx

Better yet have your School and W&M's Athletic Director call up Charlene Johnson our Athletics Director [email protected] 536-7242 or Octavio Miro Associate Athletics Director [email protected] 536-8263, so we can get a home-home so the speculation about SCSU's program can either be dismissed or affirmed...
When was the last time SCSt beat somebody besides a SWAC, TennSt or NAIA out of conference?

[89Hen]

How does UC Davis not have at least 5 votes? This has got to be downright proof of East Coast bias if there ever was any.

LONG LIVE THE EAST COAST BIAS! xmadxxmadxxmadxxmadx
xrolleyesx xcoolx xrolleyesx Didn't you provide Northeastern with one of their two wins last year?

[aggiemba]

xrolleyesx xcoolx xrolleyesx Didn't you provide Northeastern with one of their two wins last year?

I apologize, I thought this was a thread about a 2009 poll. My mistake I'm a newbie on AGS.

:o

[Shellin]

The point is Im not seeing consistency...good teams do not miss the playoffs 3 times in 5 years. Good teams dont finish 4-8 the year after going to the national championship game. I had you guys at 16 in my ballot this week. Keep the wins coming and youll keep moving up. Put together another season like this next year and you wont leave the top 10 in my ballot all year

To be fair...most teams that make it to the National Championship game don't lose one of the best running backs in recent FCS history and a Pro Bowl caliber QB either.

[tribe_pride]

Better yet have your School and W&M's Athletic Director call up Charlene Johnson our Athletics Director [email protected] 536-7242 or Octavio Miro Associate Athletics Director [email protected] 536-8263, so we can get a home-home so the speculation about SCSU's program can either be dismissed or affirmed...

Don't think that will happen anytime soon. I'm pretty sure that we have our next several years already scheduled and we don't back out of our commitments (that 's not a shot at SCSU).

Also, ease into it. People will make comments for and against yours and other schools. No need to attack anyone (or their school) who talks bad about your school. Just describe the facts that you think lead to your conclusion instead of going all defensive and attacking their school. W&M has had this the past 2 years. The best revenge is getting wins on the field.

Also make sure you have your facts lined up. Like don't say that we had trouble beating NSU when we were up 27-0 at NSU when we took out our starters and gave up 2 4th qtr TDs. It makes your arguments look bad.

Good luck to SCSU on the rest of the season.

[89Hen]

The point is Im not seeing consistency...good teams do not miss the playoffs 3 times in 5 years. Good teams dont finish 4-8 the year after going to the national championship game.
I don't care where you have UD, I'm more interested in this theory of previous consistency and how it relates to rankings.

UD 2002 = 6-6
UD 2003 = National Champions

JMU 2003 = 6-6
JMU 2004 = National Champions

AppSt 2004 = 6-5
AppSt 2005, 2006, 2007 = National Champions

xpeacex

[89Hen]

I apologize, I thought this was a thread about a 2009 poll. My mistake I'm a newbie on AGS.

:o
Well you're making it sound like you'll take on all comers and are challenging anyone from the East to play you. Just pointing out you don't have much room to talk in that particular area.

There is no east coast bias. If you followed the voting on AGS, you'd see that more often than not, it's your fellow west coasters that are holding back on western teams (of course there are some exceptions to that).

[Shellin]

I apologize, I thought this was a thread about a 2009 poll. My mistake I'm a newbie on AGS.

:o

Once again, UC Davis did nothing this past week to warrant a ranking, Winston-Salem is 0-6, it wouldn't matter if you beat them by 70, it still wouldn't get you into the top 25. If you beat Portland State, a much improved Southern Utah squad and Cal Poly these next three weeks, I'm sure you'll start getting some love in the polls.

[ToTheLeft]

How does UC Davis not have at least 5 votes? This has got to be downright proof of East Coast bias if there ever was any.

As a reminder: UC Davis has 3 loses.

1. Montana (currently the #2 team in FCS)
2. Fresno ( currently the #36 team in FBS)
3. Boise (currently the #5 team in FBS)

Sure we got crushed by Fresno, but I would argue we played Montana and Boise very very respectably.

Anyway, I invite any of the East Coast "powerhouses" to come play that schedule and see where your chips fall.

LONG LIVE THE EAST COAST BIAS! xmadxxmadxxmadxxmadx

Who did you beat again?

Oh wait. No one. Losing to good teams doesn't make you a good team. It proves that you're not as good as those teams. That's it.

[MacThor]

AGS has Delaware higher than TSN and the Coaches.

They are being unfairly penalized for being the only team in the "vicious circle" (UNH-Nova-W&M-UD-UMass-UNH...) to have played Richmond so far.

You can't rank all those teams in the circle ahead of the teams they beat, so that's why UMass is ahead. It isn't fair, but the alternative is to put all five teams into a tie for #7 or so.

[iceman4221]

We can only play the opponents on SCSU's Schedule not the opponents of the other conference members...

Having said that, W&M 27 Norfok St 15 and SCSU 37 Norfolk St 10 hows that for a common opponent

I like how we stand when it comes to playing a common opponent on their turf and winning - oh year take a look at the difference in the "margin of victory"...

As for "callin off the dogs" or sending reserves in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter...
IMHO, that's the same as our HC going entirely to a runnin game in the 2nd half of the FAMU game this weekend to "kill the clock" and preserve the victory... It works, but I DESPISE that!!! I say destroy your opponent and remove their will to play anymore... Like Steve Spurrier use to do at FLORIDA.

The difference however, is SCSU did not give up two scores as a result, and W&M did...

[CamelCityAppFan]

Losing to good teams doesn't make you a good team. It proves that you're not as good as those teams. That's it.

This needs to printed on bumper stickers, coffee mugs, and t-shirts.

[89Hen]

AGS has Delaware higher than TSN and the Coaches.

They are being unfairly penalized for being the only team in the "vicious circle" (UNH-Nova-W&M-UD-UMass-UNH...) to have played Richmond so far.
Folks, I don't think any Hen fans are up in arms with their placement. The only thing I and others have questioned is UMass being in front of UD. I'm just thrilled the Hens are anywhere in the conversation. :)

[89Hen]

We can only play the opponents on SCSU's Schedule not the opponents of the other conference members...
And only SCSU can schedule the opponents on your schedule. xpeacex

[molly]

We can only play the opponents on SCSU's Schedule not the opponents of the other conference members...

Having said that, W&M 27 Norfok St 15 and SCSU 37 Norfolk St 10 hows that for a common opponent

I like how we stand when it comes to playing a common opponent on their turf and winning - oh year take a look at the difference in the "margin of victory"...

As for "callin off the dogs" or sending reserves in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter...
IMHO, that's the same as our HC going entirely to a runnin game in the 2nd half of the FAMU game this weekend to "kill the clock" and preserve the victory... It works, but I DESPISE that!!! I say destroy your opponent and remove their will to play anymore... Like Steve Spurrier use to do at FLORIDA.

The difference however, is SCSU did not give up two scores as a result, and W&M did...

What's your problem with W&M?

[AppIAA]

.
Having said that, W&M 27 Norfok St 15 and SCSU 37 Norfolk St 10 hows that for a common opponent


Using that logic, does that mean SF is better than App? Or in 2007, App was better than Florida (Michigan beat Florida in a bowl game that year)?

I hate when people use common opponent for their only level of analysis. Maybe SCSU has a better defensive and/or offensive set to play against Norfolk -- does not make them better overall than W&M. It just simply means they played ONE better game..

Using common opponents as one level of analysis is ok, but not for the ENTIRE analysis

[WestCoastAggie]

What's your problem with W&M?

He is just a Bulldog fan that will defend his team and University till the wheels fall off and then some.xthumbsupx

SC State Fans are quite passionate about their football and they definitely support and will argue in favor until the cows come home. xnodxxlolx

[R.A.]

We can only play the opponents on SCSU's Schedule not the opponents of the other conference members...

Having said that, W&M 27 Norfok St 15 and SCSU 37 Norfolk St 10 hows that for a common opponent

I like how we stand when it comes to playing a common opponent on their turf and winning - oh year take a look at the difference in the "margin of victory"...

As for "callin off the dogs" or sending reserves in the game in the 3rd and 4th quarter...
IMHO, that's the same as our HC going entirely to a runnin game in the 2nd half of the FAMU game this weekend to "kill the clock" and preserve the victory... It works, but I DESPISE that!!! I say destroy your opponent and remove their will to play anymore... Like Steve Spurrier use to do at FLORIDA.

The difference however, is SCSU did not give up two scores as a result, and W&M did...

SCSU's for real. Everyone can see it.

They're a team no one wants to play this season in the playoffs.

I think they're the best squad in America on the FCS level personally.

But only time will tell.

[WestCoastAggie]

And only SCSU can schedule the opponents on your schedule. xpeacex

Come on Hen, you know that the MEAC is hogtied to this 9 game mandate we have since WSSU "attempted" to move to D1 FCS. SC State and the MEAC will be like this until MAYBE 2011 or whenever our Commish gets off his ARSE and splits us into Divisions, WITHOUT A CHAMP. GAME!xmadx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Ive been pretty low on the Blue Hens with my votes this year but thats mostly due to a methodology I developed back before the season when I was looking at what LUs season would be like.


Delaware last year was not good...at all...the year before they were very good...before that they were average. This year they are doing pretty well but Im still not totally sold on them. If they can string together some wins to close the year out I'll have them solidly in the top 10 but I really think they need to put together some consistently good records before they really are a regular top 5-10 team.

By their standards and within the CAA, they weren't good last year. Still, they managed to only lose by a couple to Furman in SC and by seven at BCS Maryland. I'd wager to say they probably would have won the Big South Conference last year. Very good chance of being undefeated in that conference IMO. Probably win the Patriot, MEAC and maybe even the OVC. I don't think I'd be calling that team a bad team. Only Delaware fans have that right IMHO. You must be one of the guys who thinks every bad FBS team is a pushover for FCS teams. xrolleyesx

[Go...gate]

Counting down the days until Fraudgate is booted from the polls. Sure a struggle against Princeton can happen.. but two weeks in a row, and to Gtown? I read the play by play sheet and it wasn't a fluke.

Nice guy.

[TheValleyRaider]

Counting down the days until Fraudgate is booted from the polls. Sure a struggle against Princeton can happen.. but two weeks in a row, and to Gtown? I read the play by play sheet and it wasn't a fluke.

Gee, one close loss to Liberty and the third win ever against Harvard and Lafayette fans get all uppity xsmiley_wix

For the record, the stats in the G'town game looked like this:
First Downs: 27-10 Colgate
Total Yards: 438-197 Colgate
Rushing Yards: 313-91 Colgate
TOP: 40:36-19:24 Colgate

We won by handily in the pouring rain, after 1 Hoya score came off a blocked punt. We did exactly what we were supposed to do, and win. You'll find out what that's about soon enough xcoolx

[EmeryZach]

I have
Delaware #8
UMass #11
UNH #12

I think that is a little more fair then what the poll has.

[tribe_pride]

I have
Delaware #8
UMass #11
UNH #12

I think that is a little more fair then what the poll has.

Out of curiosity, where do you have Nova and W&M since Nova beat W&M, W&M beat Delaware and UNH beat Nova.

[WMTribe90]

While I agree with you Tribe90 about the fair questions towards SCSU's top 10 ranking this week, the fact that we are not just looking at what MEAC brought into the season and looking at a Conference's succes, or lack thereof in the playoffs is kinda not fair to this team. They have to play with the cards that are dealt and they earned alot of "respect" from App. St. and other posters and are building upon that.

As long as they keep beating up on the teams they are suppose to, they will justify this ranking. They are not Hampton!xsmiley_wix


Fair point about not punishing SCST based on their conference affliaition. However, conference perception/strength effects recruiting. Playing better competition week in and out also makes your team better. So, in these ways you are somewhat a creation of the company you keep.

I was impressed with SCST's playoff showing last year. And, SCST may be a top ten team. However, in the absence of a marquee win over a traditional ranked power this year and given the track record of the MEAC against top 10 opponents, I just don't see how to justify a top ten rank at this time.

[mcveyrl]

JMU hasnt been in my poll the last couple weeks...they were supposed to be a player in the CAA and they (I think) have not won a game in conference

Is Liberty in your poll?? xeyebrowx

[JMUNJ08]

Losing to good teams doesn't make you a good team. It proves that you're not as good as those teams. That's it.


This needs to printed on bumper stickers, coffee mugs, and t-shirts.

When will the quote be in stores? I want to pre-order!xnodx

[bjtheflamesfan]

Is Liberty in your poll?? xeyebrowx

Yes but not by much.

[mcveyrl]

Yes but not by much.

They're actually in mine too, but this talk about teams beating teams and being ranked higher, etc. got me thinking about why people don't get their panties in a bunch over the lower half when the logic's not applied. The only barometer we've got for Liberty is JMU and Laffayette. They beat Lafayette, but not JMU, so by the logic, they aren't as good as JMU but better than Lafayette. Most will agree that JMU is not Top 25, but why is Liberty Top 25?

Again, I've gone against the grain in my poll (but tried to apply the logic in the Top 10), so I'm as guilty as anybody, it just seems odd.

[89Hen]

Come on Hen, you know that the MEAC is hogtied to this 9 game mandate we have since WSSU "attempted" to move to D1 FCS. SC State and the MEAC will be like this until MAYBE 2011 or whenever our Commish gets off his ARSE and splits us into Divisions, WITHOUT A CHAMP. GAME!xmadx
I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex

[89Hen]

BTW, my ballot...

11. South Carolina State
13. Delaware

xpeacex

[WrenFGun]

SCSU's for real. Everyone can see it.

They're a team no one wants to play this season in the playoffs.

I think they're the best squad in America on the FCS level personally.

But only time will tell.

I would personally love to play SCSU in the playoffs.

[WestCoastAggie]

I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex

It it works out the way it is going now, SCSU will have the SWAC Champ in the MEAC/SWAC Challenge, NC Central and and opening for one more OOC game.

They do have a "Contract" with Benedict but paid em "hush money" to get Grambling on the schedule. I think they will do the same thing next year as well.

The point is, schools in the MEAC are doing what they can to schedule strong OOC opponents. We just have to win these games. xwhistlex

[soccerguy315]

bjtheflamesfan describes polling methodology (bolding is my emphasis):



The good teams they could stay the same, but more than likely they will get better. There is marked improvement in many if not all areas and they win between Id say 7 and 9 games and maybe even 10 if the schedule is right. LU is getting into that good category. In I-AA/FCS terms, these are the teams who often are in the discussion for at large bids to the playoffs, sometimes even getting at large bids.


bjtheflamesfan describes why Delaware is not a good team:


The point is Im not seeing consistency...good teams do not miss the playoffs 3 times in 5 years. Good teams dont finish 4-8 the year after going to the national championship game. I had you guys at 16 in my ballot this week. Keep the wins coming and youll keep moving up. Put together another season like this next year and you wont leave the top 10 in my ballot all year

Result:
Delaware = not a good team
Liberty = good team

[ISUMatt]

BTW, my ballot...

11. South Carolina State
13. Delaware

xpeacex

BTW, My ballot:

13. South Carolina St
20. Delaware

[DSUrocks07]

SCSU's for real. Everyone can see it.

They're a team no one wants to play this season in the playoffs.

I think they're the best squad in America on the FCS level personally.

But only time will tell.

I'm looking forward to playing them in two weeks xsmiley_wix

[bjtheflamesfan]

I don't care where you have UD, I'm more interested in this theory of previous consistency and how it relates to rankings.

UD 2002 = 6-6
UD 2003 = National Champions

JMU 2003 = 6-6
JMU 2004 = National Champions

AppSt 2004 = 6-5
AppSt 2005, 2006, 2007 = National Champions

xpeacex

two years does not consistency make...UD has been more up and down than the Dow Jones Industrial average in the last 5 years. to go from 6-6 to National Champs to quarterfinals to NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS to going to the national championship game to not making the playoffs...good teams do not do that. JMU in the last 5 years (including their national championship run) has only missed the playoffs one time. and just because you win 6 games does not mean that is a guaranteed indicator tha tyoure going to win the national championship. LU won 6 games in 2006, they won 8 and got nowhere near the playoffs. Now what that DOES tell me is that the pieces were there and that they were utilized in the most effective manner and the fruit of that was a national championship. Richmond showed that last year. Of course now they are as good if not BETTER than they were last year.

[UMass922]

Using that logic, does that mean SF is better than App? Or in 2007, App was better than Florida (Michigan beat Florida in a bowl game that year)?

I hate when people use common opponent for their only level of analysis. Maybe SCSU has a better defensive and/or offensive set to play against Norfolk -- does not make them better overall than W&M. It just simply means they played ONE better game..

Using common opponents as one level of analysis is ok, but not for the ENTIRE analysis

You sound as though it goes without saying that SFA isn't better than App. Are you so sure about that? What major advantages does App have on its resume that negate SFA's common-opponent advantage? Not seeing any myself, I have SFA ahead of App in my poll. xpeacex

[89Hen]

two years does not consistency make...UD has been more up and down than the Dow Jones Industrial average in the last 5 years. to go from 6-6 to National Champs to quarterfinals to NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS to going to the national championship game to not making the playoffs...good teams do not do that.
OK slick.... whatever. BTW, I was trying to show you INconsitency, not consistency.

JMU should be ranked higher than UD by your standards. xnutsx

[iceman4221]

Don't think that will happen anytime soon. I'm pretty sure that we have our next several years already scheduled and we don't back out of our commitments (that 's not a shot at SCSU).

I am not naïve, I know how the scheduling works, SCSU has schedules that go out to 2014 or further, as of right now… But don’t let that be an excuse for your alma mater not attempting to call and get us on your schedule in the distant future – that’s what I meant…


People will make comments for and against yours and other schools. No need to attack anyone (or their school) who talks bad about your school.

How idiotic that statement is – if someone says something bad/good about my school and I respond in kind with a statement of fact, then I am attacking them… Please don’t misinterpret my response to you as an attack against your school, it’s just a response, in kind - if the facts support it…


Also make sure you have your facts lined up. Like don't say that we had trouble beating NSU when we were up 27-0 at NSU when we took out our starters and gave up 2 4th qtr TDs. It makes your arguments look bad.

In my best Joe Wilson rendition, “You Lie!!” My quote is below and I stand by it:


You bearly got by Norfolk State at home and you question whether SCSU is a Top Ten team... Please!!!

Keep winning and we will likely face you in the Playoffs... And we will not lose to a "Johnny Come Lately" school like William & Mary...

You are not Delaware, App State, Montana, Youngstown State or Georgia Southern... We know who you are!!!


I will admit my error as to stating where you played NSU, and to misspelling barely in my original comment, but I did not say you had a trouble beating NSU… Relative to the margin of victory, W&M did barely get by NSU, especially in comparison to SCSU… That’s the SCORE BOARD TRUTH OF THE MATTER, regardless to what your coach may have done, as it relates to reserves in the 4th quarter… SCSU 37 NSU 10 versus W&M 27 NSU 15 is the only thing we have to go on - same opponent, same venue, same result, just a difference in the margin of victory...

Those of us that did not attend the game or see the film can only assess your performance from the box score info and the final score on the score board and that’s another fact for you…

Reading is fundamental, but comprehension is imperative… I do not write in a fashion that requires READING BETWEEN THE LINES, my style of writing is direct, succinct and to the point… Don’t twist my words, That Makes You Look Bad and Shows a Lack of Integrity!!!

And ease up on the condescending, paternalistic tone, I just visited my father this weekend and you are not him…

[bjtheflamesfan]

bjtheflamesfan describes polling methodology (bolding is my emphasis):



bjtheflamesfan describes why Delaware is not a good team:



Result:
Delaware = not a good team
Liberty = good team

Delaware has shown they CAN be a good team (as the 04 national championship team showed and the team that went to the national title game and lost to ASU showed) but as I said in your quoted post, they lack consistency year in and year out. Liberty went 1-10 in 2005. New coach comes in, they go 6-5 in 2006, 8-3 in 2007, 10-2 in 2008 and are 4-2 right now and if they win out will be 9-2 (with only losses to I-A/FBS WVU and JMU). They are becoming what I call a GOOD team. Now if Delaware can start stringing together 8-9 win seasons and consistently make the playoffs, then yeah my tune will change about them. Right now they are doing well but I want to see them stay at that level and not drop back to another sub-par season in 2010.

And to my UNH friend on page 10, I dont think bad I-A/FBS teams are pushovers for FCS teams. Now that doesnt mean props wont be given when an FCS team does beat them (as UNH has consistently done of late) but even the really bad I-A/FBS teams manage to put enough together to beat the FCS teams as that is what they are expected to do (because they are I-A/FBS).

[DSUrocks07]

OK slick.... whatever. BTW, I was trying to show you INconsitency, not consistency.

JMU should be ranked higher than UD by your standards. xnutsx

Thats a good point 89, you can (should) only go off of this year's performance when judging the quality of a team.

Just because a team has a few bad years mixed in should not take away from how good THIS YEAR'S team is.

[bjtheflamesfan]

OK slick.... whatever. BTW, I was trying to show you INconsitency, not consistency.

JMU should be ranked higher than UD by your standards. xnutsx

Actually the last 5 years is part of the reason why JMU isnt ranked in my poll right now. JMU has shown themselves to be a good team. to be 2-4 (with one of those wins coming AGAINST Liberty) is inexcusable. JMU SHOULD be a lot better than they are this year. As I said before, keep on winning and I'll keep on moving you up.

[iceman4221]

I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex

SCSU does not play Benedict in 2009... We only played Steve Spurrier's USC Gamecocks, not two I-A schools and did quite well, I might add - in a losing effort... But USC is a top 25 I-A school and definitely better than UVA...

Come with facts and leave the last year and previous seasons in the past... All of my comments about SCSU, is about the 2009 edition... xnodx

As for Delaware you have a great history and have won National Titles and that's why I told one of your sister school posters that W&M was not Delaware, Georgia Southern, Youngstown St or App State... xthumbsupx

[JMUNJ08]

Those of us that did not attend the game or see the film can only assess your performance from the box score info and the final score on the score board and that’s another fact for you…

The fact is that you are lazy and don't get all the facts. xnonox Everyone knows the box score only tells part of the story and you have to read up to get the rest.

SCST is real good this year but you can't compare a cake walk for both teams. If it was a quality opponent then you may have a valid point because both teams would have played hard for 60 minutes and not be thinking about the bus ride home in the 2nd half.

[blukeys]

two years does not consistency make...UD has been more up and down than the Dow Jones Industrial average in the last 5 years. to go from 6-6 to National Champs to quarterfinals to NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS to going to the national championship game to not making the playoffs...good teams do not do that. JMU in the last 5 years (including their national championship run) has only missed the playoffs one time. and just because you win 6 games does not mean that is a guaranteed indicator tha tyoure going to win the national championship. LU won 6 games in 2006, they won 8 and got nowhere near the playoffs. Now what that DOES tell me is that the pieces were there and that they were utilized in the most effective manner and the fruit of that was a national championship. Richmond showed that last year. Of course now they are as good if not BETTER than they were last year.

You have no clue how tough and competitive football is in the CAA. A team can be very good and have a 2-6 record in conference. I have seen this happen with William and Mary. For many years I have seen William and Mary dissed on this board when they came in 2 or 3rd in the South of the CAA when they consistently came within 3 to 7 points of being 6-2 in the CAA. The same goes for Delaware, Villanova, and Richmond (A team whose consistency began just a few years ago).


But since you are so convinced that Richmond is really great perhaps you should consider that they managed to hang on by 1 point against a Delaware team who lost on a last play missed field goal.

[JMUNJ08]

Actually the last 5 years is part of the reason why JMU isnt ranked in my poll right now. JMU has shown themselves to be a good team. to be 2-4 (with one of those wins coming AGAINST Liberty) is inexcusable. JMU SHOULD be a lot better than they are this year. As I said before, keep on winning and I'll keep on moving you up.

When you play in a tough conference a few plays can turn a season. IF we don't fumble away the ball at the 6 against Richmond, keep our 2 td 4Q lead against Maryland then we are 4-2 WITH a bad loss to Hofstra and an FBS win.

When the Big South gets better (which it is) your consistency will be worth something. JMU and UD wish they get more than 2-3 gimme games a year...

[iceman4221]

I'm looking forward to playing them in two weeks xsmiley_wix

No your not, and your Hornets Football Team definitely are not looking forward to playing us, we are going to "Beat the "Brakes" off of the Hornets and turn your 2009 Halloween experience into a nightmare, kinda like App State did to Wofford on Halloween Night in 2008... Trust me, this is a special SCSU team...

[bjtheflamesfan]

Richmond is getting to be great. Delaware this year is doing very well and should be lauded for that. As I said a LONG time before in this discussion, they should be a lot closer to the top 10 this year. and the fact that they came within one point of beating the #1 team in the country is a very good thing as well. If the Blue Hens finish 8-3 (which is what a lot of people are saying is where theyd need to finish to make the show) theyll be in my top 10 most definitely and are headed in the right direction again.

[iceman4221]

The fact is that you are lazy and don't get all the facts. xnonox Everyone knows the box score only tells part of the story and you have to read up to get the rest.

SCST is real good this year but you can't compare a cake walk for both teams. If it was a quality opponent then you may have a valid point because both teams would have played hard for 60 minutes and not be thinking about the bus ride home in the 2nd half.

xlolx Oh, please not one of "Loud Mouth" Mickey Matthew's Talkin Heads, you guys need to get tickets to Richmond, William & Mary and UNH Playoff games right now...

Your 2009 edition is the weakest link in the CAA and really stink...

You may want to read your football programs from your National Championship season to sleep soundly this fall, because its gonna be a long year for your football team... xlolx

Keep the personal attacks down also, you don't know me, I am not lazy SIR... Keep the comments focus on the football discussions and keep the adjectives in your head, but please don't type them... It Makes You Look bad and add's absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand... Thank you...

[JMUNJ08]

xlolx Oh, please not one of "Loud Mouth" Mickey Matthew's Talkin Heads, you guys need to get tickets to Richmond, William & Mary and UNH Playoff games right now...

Your 2009 edition is the weakest link in the CAA and really stink...

You may want to read your football programs from your National Championship season to sleep soundly this fall, because its gonna be a long year for your football team... xlolx

Not a Mickey fan...ever. We can't play at home for this year and next in the playoffs due to a stadium expansion so we would need to get tickets elsewhere anyway. NE, URI, Towson can't be above us.

I was never high on this year's team because we were young and inexperienced.

Again, get the facts before you attack. Your team does a good job of that as their record shows.xwhistlex

My love for Cinderella is fading...

[Fear the Bird]

You have no clue how tough and competitive football is in the CAA. A team can be very good and have a 2-6 record in conference. I have seen this happen with William and Mary. For many years I have seen William and Mary dissed on this board when they came in 2 or 3rd in the South of the CAA when they consistently came within 3 to 7 points of being 6-2 in the CAA. The same goes for Delaware, Villanova, and Richmond (A team whose consistency began just a few years ago).


But since you are so convinced that Richmond is really great perhaps you should consider that they managed to hang on by 1 point against a Delaware team who lost on a last play missed field goal.

Agreed - is that not the point that people are missing here? How exactly is Delaware not consistent? The 4-8 season from a year ago was the worst season in program history I guess it depends how you define consistency - sure Delaware could be Montana and consistency is seen by playoff appearances year in and year out. But we are talking about the CAA here. People get their panties in a bunch that the CAA demands so much respect but the results don't lie! Obviously App St. had one of the greatest 3 year runs we have seen but what surrounded that run? CAA championships and championship appearances.

To say that Delaware is not consistent because they went 6-6, 15-1, 11-4, 6-6 (don't quote me on those records) is ridiculous. JMU is probably as close to "consistent" as you can get going back to their championship so does this year make them inconsistent?

[EmeryZach]

Out of curiosity, where do you have Nova and W&M since Nova beat W&M, W&M beat Delaware and UNH beat Nova.

I have
W+M #5
Nova #6
Delaware #8
UMass #11
UNH #12

[DSUrocks07]

No your not, and your Hornets Football Team definitely are not looking forward to playing us, we are going to "Beat the "Brakes" off of the Hornets and turn your 2009 Halloween experience into a nightmare, kinda like App State did to Wofford on Halloween Night in 2008... Trust me, this is a special SCSU team...

xlolxxlolx

isn't every team "special" in its own way?
just last week FAMU posters were running around saying they had a "special" team as well.
I'm pulling for ya'll to break the streak for the MEAC this year, so don't fugg it up
But until then, ya'll better hope we don't catch SCSU...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/54956500_857e582b2e.jpg?v=0

xsmiley_wix

[bjtheflamesfan]

I will also say that Richmond is a very good team...great...we'll see. If I had to list GREAT teams in FCS (overall):

1. App State (three straight NCs, no losing seasons since 1993)
2. Montana (two NCs, no losing seasons since I was a young boy, made the playoffs every year in the 1990s...somebody from Montana refresh my memory as to the last time they missed the playoffs)
3. Northern Iowa (despite no NCs, made 14 playoff appearances including #1 overall in I think 2007), lost to App State in 2005 in NC game

and a couple others who escape my memory at the moment

[Fear the Bird]

I will also say that Richmond is a very good team...great...we'll see. If I had to list GREAT teams in FCS (overall):

1. App State (three straight NCs, no losing seasons since 1993)
2. Montana (two NCs, no losing seasons since I was a young boy, made the playoffs every year in the 1990s...somebody from Montana refresh my memory as to the last time they missed the playoffs)
3. Northern Iowa (despite no NCs, made 14 playoff appearances including #1 overall in I think 2007), lost to App State in 2005 in NC game

and a couple others who escape my memory at the moment

Why is UNI so great just for always making the playoffs? I seem to remember Delaware "consistently" beating them in the playoffs

[Go...gate]

Gee, one close loss to Liberty and the third win ever against Harvard and Lafayette fans get all uppity xsmiley_wix

For the record, the stats in the G'town game looked like this:
First Downs: 27-10 Colgate
Total Yards: 438-197 Colgate
Rushing Yards: 313-91 Colgate
TOP: 40:36-19:24 Colgate

We won by handily in the pouring rain, after 1 Hoya score came off a blocked punt. We did exactly what we were supposed to do, and win. You'll find out what that's about soon enough xcoolx

Great post Valley, but I'm inclined to let them keep thinking we just suck, like so many in the PL thought after the Villanova game. A lot of the Stony Brook posters thought we sucked too, and now Albany posters think we suck.

Let's go play and see what happens. We certainly may not win, but we sure as hell do NOT suck.

Game on.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Agreed - is that not the point that people are missing here? How exactly is Delaware not consistent? The 4-8 season from a year ago was the worst season in program history I guess it depends how you define consistency - sure Delaware could be Montana and consistency is seen by playoff appearances year in and year out. But we are talking about the CAA here. People get their panties in a bunch that the CAA demands so much respect but the results don't lie! Obviously App St. had one of the greatest 3 year runs we have seen but what surrounded that run? CAA championships and championship appearances.

To say that Delaware is not consistent because they went 6-6, 15-1, 11-4, 6-6 (don't quote me on those records) is ridiculous. JMU is probably as close to "consistent" as you can get going back to their championship so does this year make them inconsistent?

there also was a 9-4 season, and a 5-6 season thrown in there as well. I guess I just have ridiculous standards for consistency but I think that the good teams should always be able to win between 7-9 games every year regardless of conference in the regular season. Great teams are transcendent. App State has shown themselves to be transcendent (did have a downer last year losing a couple games and getting knocked off by eventual NC Richmond). The good teams can bring in any number of new players and/or coaches and there is little to no drop off in results.

[SumItUp]

there also was a 9-4 season, and a 5-6 season thrown in there as well. I guess I just have ridiculous standards for consistency but I think that the good teams should always be able to win between 7-9 games every year regardless of conference in the regular season. Great teams are transcendent. App State has shown themselves to be transcendent (did have a downer last year losing a couple games and getting knocked off by eventual NC Richmond). The good teams can bring in any number of new players and/or coaches and there is little to no drop off in results.

xeekx xconfusedx The hole that you are digging is getting deeper and deeper. xoopsx

[bjtheflamesfan]

My point simply is that Delaware is good this year that cant be denied. They have been good before, that also cant be denied. Do they deserve to be higher this year in the rankings...yes. If they keep on winning theyll keep on moving up (or at least they should). Whether or not they stay up there is up to them.

[State Line Liquors]

there also was a 9-4 season, and a 5-6 season thrown in there as well. I guess I just have ridiculous standards for consistency but I think that the good teams should always be able to win between 7-9 games every year regardless of conference in the regular season. Great teams are transcendent. App State has shown themselves to be transcendent (did have a downer last year losing a couple games and getting knocked off by eventual NC Richmond). The good teams can bring in any number of new players and/or coaches and there is little to no drop off in results.

You're going to eventually tangle yourself into a logic knot. Best to step away from the keyboard.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Point noted...lets just call it a wash and go out and kick some butt this weekend so I can move you guys up in my next ballot

[WileECoyote06]

Using that logic, does that mean SF is better than App? Or in 2007, App was better than Florida (Michigan beat Florida in a bowl game that year)?

I hate when people use common opponent for their only level of analysis. Maybe SCSU has a better defensive and/or offensive set to play against Norfolk -- does not make them better overall than W&M. It just simply means they played ONE better game..

Using common opponents as one level of analysis is ok, but not for the ENTIRE analysis

I don't like it either, but it will come into consideration when it comes time to seed for the playoffs. I know it does in DII playoff selection.

[BulldogWillie]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??

UD has a 49-0 lead thru 3 qtrs & drops in the poll? Gets jumped by a UMass team we just pummeled the week before? You voters need to look at more than 1 week at a time.....





Let's not show any bias,BlueHenBillk. S.C. State earned that rank because they played to win. That's the reason the FCS will always be better than the FBS(BCS).

[Go...gate]

two years does not consistency make...UD has been more up and down than the Dow Jones Industrial average in the last 5 years. to go from 6-6 to National Champs to quarterfinals to NOT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS to going to the national championship game to not making the playoffs...good teams do not do that. JMU in the last 5 years (including their national championship run) has only missed the playoffs one time. and just because you win 6 games does not mean that is a guaranteed indicator tha tyoure going to win the national championship. LU won 6 games in 2006, they won 8 and got nowhere near the playoffs. Now what that DOES tell me is that the pieces were there and that they were utilized in the most effective manner and the fruit of that was a national championship. Richmond showed that last year. Of course now they are as good if not BETTER than they were last year.

Respectfully, Delaware was a consistently good program before they put the footings and foundations in for Liberty Baptist College - and they have stayed that way for well over fifty (50) years. They play tough schedules EVERY year and yes, though they may have had an off-year or two recently, on balance they are perenially strong. How you cannot consider them a "good team" in light of such facts perplexes me. They are arguably the NY Yankees of I-AA football.

[WileECoyote06]

As i said last week, it depends mightily on your voting philosophy. Do you vote based on perceived strength, or on a successful season? Does the timing of a loss affect your ranking? What about blowouts vs non-blowouts?

I think SCSU benefited from UCA losing, while they got a pretty convincing win over another top-25 team. They are top-ten and if they win their remaining games will host a game in the playoffs.

[iceman4221]

When was the last time SCSt beat somebody besides a SWAC, TennSt or NAIA out of conference?

First, SCSU does not play NAIA schools... FACT

Second, Oliver "Buddy" Pough started coaching here in 2002, what happen with his predecessors has no bearing on him... FACT

Thirdly, the 2009 edition of the SCSU Bulldogs are the best team we have had since the 1981 & 1982 squads, you will know after this playoff season... A Predicted FACT that will manifest as the rest of 2009 unfolds...

4th keep comparing other MEAC Schools playoff performances to the 2009 SCSU football team and its result if you'd like, if you think we don't have a program in the making, get your Athletic Director to give our Athletic Director a call and schedule a Home-Home for the 2015 season and beyond, as we all know here on AnyGivenSaturday.com schedules are made out 4-6 years in advance of the current year... xlolx

[aceinthehole]

Any Given Saturday Poll Top 25

(First place votes in parenthesis), Points
1. Richmond (95) 2470
2. Montana (3) 2319
3. Southern Illinois (1) 2283
4. Villanova 2146
5. William & Mary 1958
6. Northern Iowa 1944
7. Elon 1852
8. Appalachian St. 1701
9. New Hampshire 1695
10. South Carolina St. 1395
11. South Dakota St. 1334
12. McNeese St. 1178
13. Stephen F. Austin 1099
14. Jacksonville St. 1071
15. Massachusetts 1064
16. Weber St. 1018
17. Delaware 982
18. Central Arkansas 934
19. Cal Poly 757
20. Colgate 670
21. Furman 444
22. Eastern Kentucky 335
23. Liberty 305
24. Northern Arizona 281
25. Holy Cross 210

Others receiving votes (minimum of 5 votes): Eastern Washington (46), Florida A&M (25), Eastern Illinois (24), Prairie View A&M (19), Montana St. (18), James Madison (16), Lafayette (12), Central Connecticut St. (6)

Does this look right? xconfusedx

Central Connecticut State (5-1, 3-0 NEC)
Sep 5 - W at Lehigh, 28-21
Sep 12 - L at William & Mary, 14-33
Sep 26 - W at Columbia, 22-13
Oct 3 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 24-12
Oct 10 - W vs. Robert Morris, 42-21
Oct 17 - W at Duquesne, 31-24

Holy Cross (5-1, 1-0 Patriot)
Sep 5 - W vs. Georgetown, 20-7
Sep 12 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 52-21
Sep 19 - W vs. Harvard, 27-20
Oct 3 - W at Northeastern, 42-21
Oct 10 - L at Brown, 31-34
Oct 17 - W vs. Dartmouth, 34-14

Wins:
Sacred Heart
Lehigh = Dartmouth
RMU = Georgetown
Columbia = Harvard
Duquesne < Northeastern

Loss:
#5 W&M > Brown

So how is Holy Cross #25 and CCSU gets just 6 votes with nearly the identical resume? Why does the bias still exist against NEC teams, but not those from the PL, MEAC, etc. xrolleyesx

(I could do this for a few more schools too - I'm looking at you EIU, FAMU, and PVAM.)

[Reign of Terrier]

Does this look right? xconfusedx

Central Connecticut State (5-1, 3-0 NEC)
Sep 5 - W at Lehigh, 28-21
Sep 12 - L at William & Mary, 14-33
Sep 26 - W at Columbia, 22-13
Oct 3 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 24-12
Oct 10 - W vs. Robert Morris, 42-21
Oct 17 - W at Duquesne, 31-24

Holy Cross (5-1, 1-0 Patriot)
Sep 5 - W vs. Georgetown, 20-7
Sep 12 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 52-21
Sep 19 - W vs. Harvard, 27-20
Oct 3 - W at Northeastern, 42-21
Oct 10 - L at Brown, 31-34
Oct 17 - W vs. Dartmouth, 34-14

Wins:
Sacred Heart
Lehigh = Dartmouth
RMU = Georgetown
Columbia = Harvard
Duquesne < Northeastern

Loss:
#5 W&M > Brown

So how is Holy Cross #25 and CCSU gets just 6 votes with nearly the identical resume? xrolleyesx

The transitive theory doesn't work in Football but from the looks of things CCS would lose by only a TD to Virginia

[aceinthehole]

The transitive theory doesn't work in Football but from the looks of things CCS would lose by only a TD to Virginia

No one is saying that! What I'm saying is the "value" of the wins for both teams are nearly identical, yet the rankings don't show it.

Holy Cross hasn't beaten anyone of more considerable strenght than CCSU. Furthermore, CCSU has a loss to a the #5 team, while HC has a loss to an unranked team. Period.

[crusader11]

Does this look right? xconfusedx

Central Connecticut State (5-1, 3-0 NEC)
Sep 5 - W at Lehigh, 28-21
Sep 12 - L at William & Mary, 14-33
Sep 26 - W at Columbia, 22-13
Oct 3 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 24-12
Oct 10 - W vs. Robert Morris, 42-21
Oct 17 - W at Duquesne, 31-24

Holy Cross (5-1, 1-0 Patriot)
Sep 5 - W vs. Georgetown, 20-7
Sep 12 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 52-21
Sep 19 - W vs. Harvard, 27-20
Oct 3 - W at Northeastern, 42-21
Oct 10 - L at Brown, 31-34
Oct 17 - W vs. Dartmouth, 34-14

Wins:
Sacred Heart
Lehigh = Dartmouth
RMU = Georgetown
Columbia = Harvard
Duquesne < Northeastern

Loss:
#5 W&M > Brown

So how is Holy Cross #25 and CCSU gets just 6 votes with nearly the identical resume? Why does the bias still exist against NEC teams, but not those from the PL, MEAC, etc. xrolleyesx

(I could do this for a few more schools too - I'm looking at you EIU, FAMU, and PVAM.)

Thought we would be hearing from you.

Lehigh, bad as they are, is better than Dartmouth (no way are they equal). Hard to say that Columbia and Harvard are equal; I think most would agree Harvard is probably better.

We have only when comparable team big guy: Sacred Heart. We dismantled them, they almost beat you. Enough of trying to compare the other teams on both schedules to one another. And, we would beat Duquesne by at least 4 scores, you almost lost to them too.

I'm not saying CCSU is a bad team, in fact, they probably should have gotten some more votes. But, they are not better than Holy Cross and do not deserve to be in the top 25. Probably around 31-35 in the country.

[aceinthehole]

Thought we would be hearing from you.

Lehigh, bad as they are, is better than Dartmouth (no way are they equal). Hard to say that Columbia and Harvard are equal; I think most would agree Harvard is probably better.

We have only when comparable team big guy: Sacred Heart. We dismantled them, they almost beat you. Enough of trying to compare the other teams on both schedules to one another. And, we would beat Duquesne by at least 4 scores, you almost lost to them too.

I'm not saying CCSU is a bad team, in fact, they probably should have gotten some more votes. But, they are not better than Holy Cross and do not deserve to be in the top 25. Probably around 31-35 in the country.

If you think Lehigh is "better" win than Dartmouth you prove my point even more.

Sorry, you may not want to hear it or admit it, but Holy Cross and CCSU bring a similar resume to the table and should be ranked accordingly. You may think HC can beat anyone out there, but your ranking is justified by your schedule to date, not some "gut feeling" on who you think you can beat.

Here are some more facts to back it up that CCSU has the stronger argument to be ranked than Holy Cross:

GPI
Central Conn. St - 43
Holy Cross - 45

Sagarin
Central Conn. St - 155
Holy Cross - 171

GPI rank of our opponents:
Wins
Sacred Heart (113)
Lehigh (100) > Dartmouth (107)
RMU (116) > Georgetown (121)
Columbia (58) < Harvard (50)
Duquesne (108) < Northeastern (88)

Loss
#5 W&M (5) > Brown (52)

[bjtheflamesfan]

CCSU (along with a lot of other teams, Liberty included) I think is most affected by their own conference. If you look at the latest GPI numbers, the Northeast Conference is the 13th out of 14 conferences in all of the FCS. If the Blue Devils had beaten (or even hung with) William and Mary they probaby pick up more votes. Liberty was probably on the cusp of the top 15 going into the JMU game (JMU being I think a top 10 team at the time), lost and I dont think gets up to near that level again unless they win out. Albany (your conference mate) is the same way.

[WrenFGun]

You should not be in the top 25 if you lose to Brown. It's really that simple.

[blukeys]

there also was a 9-4 season, and a 5-6 season thrown in there as well. I guess I just have ridiculous standards for consistency but I think that the good teams should always be able to win between 7-9 games every year regardless of conference in the regular season. Great teams are transcendent. App State has shown themselves to be transcendent (did have a downer last year losing a couple games and getting knocked off by eventual NC Richmond). The good teams can bring in any number of new players and/or coaches and there is little to no drop off in results.

Your reasoning is so flawed that I am disappointed that your vote is going in the mix. You have consistently ignored my point that a very tough conference can cause a series of close losses that will drop a team's record. The same team can be either 6-2 or 2-6 based on a few plays. The CAA is no Big South and every week is a dog fight.

But to your unbelievably inane view that you base your vote for rankings on the basis of whatever "consistency" is (which really means prior year records) . I hope you are at least "consistent" and keep Elon out of your top 25. They have "consistently" been a very bad SoCon team. By your standard today's Elon team should be punished for the "consistently" bad performance of their predecessors.

Your ballot regarding SoCon teams should look like this.

ASU
Furman
Wofford
GSU
Citadel
Western Carolina
Chattanooga
Elon

[crusader11]

You should not be in the top 25 if you lose to Brown. It's really that simple.

Didn't know that one game defines a season.

[McNeese75]

You sound as though it goes without saying that SFA isn't better than App. Are you so sure about that? What major advantages does App have on its resume that negate SFA's common-opponent advantage? Not seeing any myself, I have SFA ahead of App in my poll. xpeacex

xrolleyesx SFA is not better than App. I have seen them both against a common opponent (us). Both games were played in their stadiums and if you go and check the stats for both games I think you might get a hint of what I am talking about. xcoffeex

[bjtheflamesfan]

Elon has certainly turned things around over the last few years and are being rewarded for that (which is why when LU housed them at the end of the year that pretty much ended any hopes of them going to the playoffs). Wofford I had at #11 to start the year but they have been duly punished by myself and other voters in the poll. I do have my methodology (flawed as it may be) but that does not mean I totally discount the current year. UD had a bad year last year (and it was painful to follow week to week not gonna lie). This year they are doing a lot better and are moving back in the right direction and I am rewarding them for it.

When it comes to setting my ballot week to week its pretty simple:

You win you move up (how many spots usually depends on the teams around them and the previous week's position...usually its not more than 3-4 spots unless there are a TON of upsets)

You lost to a team ranked above you you drop but how much depends on how bad of a loss it was (but again not usually more than 3-4 spots but typically 2-3)

You lost to a team ranked below you it depends on how far (if they are like 1-2 spots that really isnt worth dropping very far since they essentially are equal teams, if its more than 6 spots then youll drop pretty far)

You lose to an unranked team you drop a ton because that is just plain inexcusable.

In short, I will say that I should have given UD a lot more credit but I do hope to see them put together a great finish to this year and build on it for 2010.

[TCisMYhero]

The transitive theory doesn't work in Football but from the looks of things CCS would lose by only a TD to Virginia

Don't tell that to NDSU. They are 2007 MVFC and National Champions by the Transitive Theory.

[WestCoastAggie]

Does this look right? xconfusedx

Central Connecticut State (5-1, 3-0 NEC)
Sep 5 - W at Lehigh, 28-21
Sep 12 - L at William & Mary, 14-33
Sep 26 - W at Columbia, 22-13
Oct 3 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 24-12
Oct 10 - W vs. Robert Morris, 42-21
Oct 17 - W at Duquesne, 31-24

Holy Cross (5-1, 1-0 Patriot)
Sep 5 - W vs. Georgetown, 20-7
Sep 12 - W vs. Sacred Heart, 52-21
Sep 19 - W vs. Harvard, 27-20
Oct 3 - W at Northeastern, 42-21
Oct 10 - L at Brown, 31-34
Oct 17 - W vs. Dartmouth, 34-14

Wins:
Sacred Heart
Lehigh = Dartmouth
RMU = Georgetown
Columbia = Harvard
Duquesne < Northeastern

Loss:
#5 W&M > Brown

So how is Holy Cross #25 and CCSU gets just 6 votes with nearly the identical resume? Why does the bias still exist against NEC teams, but not those from the PL, MEAC, etc. xrolleyesx

(I could do this for a few more schools too - I'm looking at you EIU, FAMU, and PVAM.)

C'mon dude. We must pull each other up rather than keep one another down. CCSU is going through the long, tough process of earning the "respect" of the pundits here. Just keep winning the games in front of you and you will receive your justs desserts.

[ToTheLeft]

Don't tell that to NDSU. They are 2007 MVFC and National Champions by the Transitive Theory.

So did both of the Anderson Universities. :) Go Ravens. And whatever the other Anderson is called.

[aceinthehole]

C'mon dude. We must pull each other up rather than keep one another down. CCSU is going through the long, tough process of earning the "respect" of the pundits here. Just keep winning the games in front of you and you will receive your justs desserts.

BS!!!! Just objectively compare their body of work. Holy Cross is unfairly being rewarded because they were ranked in the preseason and because they play in an AQ conference.

You can't objectively respond and support a HC ranking based on fuzzy concept of "respect" or base it on what teams you "think" they could beat. CCSU has won 5 games comparable to HC and almost no one really reufutes that fact. Everyone also agrees that CCSU loss to #5 W&M is "better" than HC's loss to unranked Brown. But at the same time, no one has objectively explained why the voting is baised in favor of Holy Cross.

What vaild justification is there for HC's #25 AGS ranking (#22 in the other polls) with their results? Why doesn't that same logic apply to CCSU results? xconfusedx

[bluehenbillk]

Dude let's be honest. Neither HC nor CCSU have a quality win, neither deserves to be ranked.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Dude let's be honest. Neither HC nor CCSU have a quality win, neither deserves to be ranked.


Correct. 2-4 JMU would beat either team by 2 scores.

[ToTheLeft]

Correct. 2-4 JMU would beat either team by 2 scores.

That's not the point of the polls tho. It's about resumes, not hypothetical NCAA 10 matchups.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

That's not the point of the polls tho. It's about resumes, not hypothetical NCAA 10 matchups.

Its not a hypothetical NCAA 10 matchup. As I recall, JMU beat you by 2 scores at your place and is currently winless in the CAA ... and will be until November.

You fancy a playoff bid, right?

[ToTheLeft]

Its not a hypothetical NCAA 10 matchup. As I recall, JMU beat you by 2 scores at your place and is currently winless in the CAA ... and will be until November.

You fancy a playoff bid, right?

Liberty wasn't in the discussion, and your random "facts" you like to pull out of the air aren't really conducive to a discussion. Just because a fan of a certain team enters a discussion, does not mean you get to just smack their team for the heck of it.

And the polls are about resumes. Your "prediction" that HC and CCSU would lose to JMU by two scores is just that, a prediction, and not worthy of being a part of your poll-making process. It's not about who could beat who in a game. It's about who has the best resume to this point. JMU has a win over Liberty, and losses to Hofstra, et al. with a 2-4 record... not very compelling.

And that's the point of the conversation.

HC and CCSU don't have quality wins, and don't deserve to be ranked. Liberty has a couple of decent-quality wins (Lafayette on the road and a blowout over Coastal), and a respectable loss to an FBS school that might wind up as one of the 25 best in the nation at season's end. That's how you determine where a school belongs.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Liberty wasn't in the discussion, and your random "facts" you like to pull out of the air aren't really conducive to a discussion. Just because a fan of a certain team enters a discussion, does not mean you get to just smack their team for the heck of it.

And the polls are about resumes. Your "prediction" that HC and CCSU would lose to JMU by two scores is just that, a prediction, and not worthy of being a part of your poll-making process. It's not about who could beat who in a game. It's about who has the best resume to this point. JMU has a win over Liberty, and losses to Hofstra, et al. with a 2-4 record... not very compelling.

And that's the point of the conversation.

HC and CCSU don't have quality wins, and don't deserve to be ranked. Liberty has a couple of decent-quality wins (Lafayette on the road and a blowout over Coastal), and a respectable loss to an FBS school that might wind up as one of the 25 best in the nation at season's end. That's how you determine where a school belongs.

I vote in the AGS poll and the mods don't seem to have an issue with the way I vote. For the record, I'm one of the 4 guys that didn't vote for Richmond this week.

What's a 'decent-quality win'? Is that a new classification for a win over a mid-pack Big South or Patriot League team to further your own agenda?

[WMTribe90]

BS!!!! Just objectively compare their body of work. Holy Cross is unfairly being rewarded because they were ranked in the preseason and because they play in an AQ conference.

You can't objectively respond and support a HC ranking based on fuzzy concept of "respect" or base it on what teams you "think" they could beat. CCSU has won 5 games comparable to HC and almost no one really reufutes that fact. Everyone also agrees that CCSU loss to #5 W&M is "better" than HC's loss to unranked Brown. But at the same time, no one has objectively explained why the voting is baised in favor of Holy Cross.

What vaild justification is there for HC's #25 AGS ranking (#22 in the other polls) with their results? Why doesn't that same logic apply to CCSU results?

I didn't rank CCSU or Holy Cross. I have HC at 26 and CCSU at 30. Do you really wanna argue the difference between 26 and 30? Win out and CCSU will be ranked, but even if you win out the SOS isn't there for a playoff spot. So, you're really arguing about a few spots in the ORV column at this point. I agree with you that HC and CCSU have very similar resumes, but I don't see a huge injustice. I think UNH and SFA have bigger beefs than CCSU.

[ToTheLeft]

I vote in the AGS poll and the mods don't seem to have an issue with the way I vote. For the record, I'm one of the 4 guys that didn't vote for Richmond this week.

What's a 'decent-quality win'? Is that a new classification for a win over a mid-pack Big South or Patriot League team to further your own agenda?

That's "decent to quality" as in a range.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

That's "decent to quality" as in a range.

What are the other 'ranges' of victories?

What was the Elon win last year? 'Quality to Gargantuan'?

[State Line Liquors]

Liberty wasn't in the discussion, and your random "facts" you like to pull out of the air aren't really conducive to a discussion. Just because a fan of a certain team enters a discussion, does not mean you get to just smack their team for the heck of it.

And the polls are about resumes. Your "prediction" that HC and CCSU would lose to JMU by two scores is just that, a prediction, and not worthy of being a part of your poll-making process. It's not about who could beat who in a game. It's about who has the best resume to this point. JMU has a win over Liberty, and losses to Hofstra, et al. with a 2-4 record... not very compelling.

And that's the point of the conversation.

HC and CCSU don't have quality wins, and don't deserve to be ranked. Liberty has a couple of decent-quality wins (Lafayette on the road and a blowout over Coastal), and a respectable loss to an FBS school that might wind up as one of the 25 best in the nation at season's end. That's how you determine where a school belongs.

After that instructional, maybe you wouldn't mind showing everyone what your poll for the week looked like so we can double check your words and your actions? Resume's first, not predictions, right? I've already found a problem with your judgement, 'decent quality wins' include teams that have beat nobody but Ivy leaguers and a team that got beat by Towson. If these are what you determine to be resume builders then can we put you in the same category as the airborne object that poor Falcon fell from?

[UMass922]

xrolleyesx SFA is not better than App. I have seen them both against a common opponent (us). Both games were played in their stadiums and if you go and check the stats for both games I think you might get a hint of what I am talking about. xcoffeex

Ultimately SFA might not be the better team, but at this moment they have the resume to justify being ranked ahead of App, IMHO.

If the two were to meet in a playoff game, I would probably put my money on App to win, but for the purposes of ranking the teams, I think you have to reward the team that has produced the better results, and up to this point, that's been SFA.

[ToTheLeft]

After that instructional, maybe you wouldn't mind showing everyone what your poll for the week looked like so we can double check your words and your actions? Resume's first, not predictions, right? I've already found a problem with your judgement, 'decent quality wins' include teams that have beat nobody but Ivy leaguers and a team that got beat by Towson. If these are what you determine to be resume builders then can we put you in the same category as the airborne object that poor Falcon fell from?

The voting process is private for a reason, good sir.

And I just fail to see how "team x could beat team y by two scores so they're out" is a part of a poll making process. Did anyone say "I bet Hofstra will beat JMU, so they're out of my poll, even though they beat Liberty"?

The point is that it's about resumes. Now whether you are biased more towards the bigger conferences or the smaller ones, the east coast or the west coast, good wins or good losses, whatever, that's up to you. But playing a game out in your head with what you presuppose about a team and ranking them based on it is pretty weak...

I am not saying I am a poll expert, I am just using common sense. If this was all about "who can beat who" the poll would be a lot different, in FCS and FBS. You have to base it on overall resumes, and that's what pollsters do. How many people that vote in the polls honestly think that Boise could beat every single one of the top 25 teams below them, and hang with the top 4 on a neutral field? Yet look at them sittin' pretty at number 5.

And I do think that a win over Lafayette is a quality win, and all the computers seem to agree. They don't have a bias, do you? If Lafayette was a CAA team would it mean more to you? And the win over Coastal moved us up a lot, so it must have meant something too. I mean, they're not world-beaters but they're a solid program, and we beat them soundly.

Regardless, the point of this wasn't to get into a "my poll is better than yours" fight, nor was it a "why Liberty should make the playoffs" discussion, since the first is just stupid and the second is premature and a bit stupid... I just wanted to point out that I disagree with the logic behind his comment, and since this is a forum for discussion, I made my point.

[MaximumBobcat]

The point is that it's about resumes. Now whether you are biased more towards the bigger conferences or the smaller ones, the east coast or the west coast, good wins or good losses, whatever, that's up to you. But playing a game out in your head with what you presuppose about a team and ranking them based on it is pretty weak...


For some people it's all about resumes. I vote every week just based on who I think the best team is and on down the line. It's the reason I've been voting Montana #1 all along.

So to all you East Coasters who wanted to know so badly 3-4 weeks ago, yep, it was me. :p

[Native]

How does a loss to another Top 5 team drop you lower than 6? xconfusedx

Because it does not occur in a vaccum! All us homers get caught up in the truths of our own team and forget about the rest! xpeacex

[Native]

I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex

Ditto!

[Native]

I am not naïve, I know how the scheduling works, SCSU has schedules that go out to 2014 or further, as of right now… But don’t let that be an excuse for your alma mater not attempting to call and get us on your schedule in the distant future – that’s what I meant…



How idiotic that statement is – if someone says something bad/good about my school and I respond in kind with a statement of fact, then I am attacking them… Please don’t misinterpret my response to you as an attack against your school, it’s just a response, in kind - if the facts support it…



In my best Joe Wilson rendition, “You Lie!!” My quote is below and I stand by it:




I will admit my error as to stating where you played NSU, and to misspelling barely in my original comment, but I did not say you had a trouble beating NSU… Relative to the margin of victory, W&M did barely get by NSU, especially in comparison to SCSU… That’s the SCORE BOARD TRUTH OF THE MATTER, regardless to what your coach may have done, as it relates to reserves in the 4th quarter… SCSU 37 NSU 10 versus W&M 27 NSU 15 is the only thing we have to go on - same opponent, same venue, same result, just a difference in the margin of victory...

Those of us that did not attend the game or see the film can only assess your performance from the box score info and the final score on the score board and that’s another fact for you…

Reading is fundamental, but comprehension is imperative… I do not write in a fashion that requires READING BETWEEN THE LINES, my style of writing is direct, succinct and to the point… Don’t twist my words, That Makes You Look Bad and Shows a Lack of Integrity!!!

And ease up on the condescending, paternalistic tone, I just visited my father this weekend and you are not him…

Lighten up or take it to the poli board, bra! xbabycryx

Taking yourself too seriously on this board is the surest way not to be taken seriously at all.

I will be surprised if SCSU is anything but one and done in the postseason, but I could be wrong! xpeacex

That's why we play the game. Good luck in the playoffs, though! xthumbsupx

[Squealofthepig]

That's not the point of the polls tho. It's about resumes, not hypothetical NCAA 10 matchups.

People vote on two completely different criteria - and there's nothing telling them to vote one way or the other.

Some voters vote on body of work - who you've beat, where you've beaten them, who you've lost to, who you should not have lost to. It's a valid way to vote, but it's not required.

Others vote on how good they think the teams are. If you use this as your guiding principle, you can legitimately vote for an 0-6 team at #21 or so, if you think they've played six teams above them very well.

Neither are wrong. But people do vote following one, or the other. Most voters - in all polls - do try to reconcile this, but it's why you see a lot of weird things in the poll. JMU is a great example - some will look at what they've done, and say JMU has come up short and penalize them. Others will look at how good the team actually is, and realize they have some close games against tough teams and reward them.

All polls are of human beings, with all the intrinsic shortcomings that implies. Take 'em with a grain of salt and hope your team proves their worth on the field - ultimately that's what it's all about, and even these mid-season polls are just reading some rather indecipherable tea-leaves.

[inpsite1919]

Do people honestly think SC State is a top 10 team? Is the Hampton fraud of a few years ago forgotten??


I think that SCSU is a top 10 team.
1st- I’m bias because it’s my Alma Mater.
2nd – The offense is finally starting to click and be consistent.
3rd- Defense is truly a monster. With the offense becoming more consistent they will continue to get more rest on the sidelines.
4TH- Add 2 + 3 = Nightmares for opposing teams.

I think that we are our own worst enemy now. We can not afford to have a let up against anyone remaining in the MEAC, because there are a lot of teams out there remaining on the schedule that can play spoiler. Trust me we are not Hampton (No Disrespect Pirates). With added depth and experience over the next few weeks the Bulldogs will make noise in the playoffs. I understand that until we actually win a playoff game this decade the questions will continue. Just hope those Bulldogs don’t end up on your back steps.
xcoffeex

[inpsite1919]

Come on Hen, you know that the MEAC is hogtied to this 9 game mandate we have since WSSU "attempted" to move to D1 FCS. SC State and the MEAC will be like this until MAYBE 2011 or whenever our Commish gets off his ARSE and splits us into Divisions, WITHOUT A CHAMP. GAME!xmadx


I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex

WestCoastAggie I do agree that the conference needs to be split to drop the 9 game mandate. This way teams can strengthen their schedules by playing teams in stronger conferences. Some teams might get whooped initially, but like the old saying says “What doesn’t kill you can only make you stronger.” If the MEAC was split into North & South the teams in the conference would also receive some economic relief from the travel. xthumbsupx

89Hen you stated that you knew, but really you don’t. SCSU only played two (technically) OOC games (Grambling & University of South Carolina.) So a victory against the last one would have gotten respect. xrolleyesx

[Jackman]

CAA round robin already rearing its ugly head --> UNH beat Villanova beat W&M beat UD beat UMass beat UNH.

All of those teams beat each other at home. None of them have beaten each other on the road.

If you were to treat those games as canceling each other out, the positions of the teams in the poll would match up with how someone would place them based on the fact that Nova has the best FBS win and the extra win, W&M has the second best FBS win, UNH has the third best FBS win, UMass has the "good" FBS loss, and Delaware has the "good" FCS loss but also the Division II win.

I didn't vote, and I'm not saying that's necessarily the right way to vote, I'm just saying that if 100 people voted that way with regards to those five teams, you'd probably end up with roughly those 5 poll positions, including the size of the gaps between the 5.

[aceinthehole]

Dude let's be honest. Neither HC nor CCSU have a quality win, neither deserves to be ranked.


I didn't rank CCSU or Holy Cross. I have HC at 26 and CCSU at 30. Do you really wanna argue the difference between 26 and 30? Win out and CCSU will be ranked, but even if you win out the SOS isn't there for a playoff spot. So, you're really arguing about a few spots in the ORV column at this point. I agree with you that HC and CCSU have very similar resumes, but I don't see a huge injustice. I think UNH and SFA have bigger beefs than CCSU.

Again, they both admit that HC has no business being ranked!

My point, and its a legitimate beef, is that CCSU is treated DIFFERENTLY than Holy Cross. And yes, despite the fact that they are in the NEC, their resume is the same and they should be treated the same. This isn't about the playoffs or an at-large - its only about their rankings!

If BOTH teams aren't top-25 worthy, so be it. But the injustice is that one team is #25/22 and the other team gets a handfull of votes. I guess it only OK for CAA fans to make gripes about polls and ranking and those that follow the NEC have no business showing questionable voting. xrolleyesx

The point I keep making is that teams like CCSU and Albany should be "respected" and ranked equally with teams with similar resumes from the PL, MEAC, Big South, Ivy, OVC, etc.

So far the only response I keep getting, is to stop complaining becasue we are in the NEC and not worthy of the top-25, and keep winning. If CCSU and Albany win this week, they should both be in a poistion to be ranked BEFORE heading into the matchup on Halloween. It is crazy to think a Colgate-HC game is between 2 ranked teams, when Albany-CCSU won't be.

(For the record, I do not vote in AGS, or any other poll, for a number of personal reasons)

[WileECoyote06]

Again, they both admit that HC has no business being ranked!

My point, and its a legitimate beef, is that CCSU is treated DIFFERENTLY than Holy Cross. And yes, despite the fact that they are in the NEC, their resume is the same and they should be treated the same. This isn't about the playoffs or an at-large - its only about their rankings!

If BOTH teams aren't top-25 worthy, so be it. But the injustice is that one team is #25/22 and the other team gets a handfull of votes. I guess it only OK for CAA fans to make gripes about polls and ranking and those that follow the NEC have no business showing questionable voting. xrolleyesx

The point I keep making is that teams like CCSU and Albany should be "respected" and ranked equally with teams with similar resumes from the PL, MEAC, Big South, Ivy, OVC, etc.

So far the only response I keep getting, is to stop complaining becasue we are in the NEC and not worthy of the top-25, and keep winning. If CCSU and Albany win this week, they should both be in a poistion to be ranked BEFORE heading into the matchup on Halloween. It is crazy to think a Colgate-HC game is between 2 ranked teams, when Albany-CCSU won't be.

(For the record, I do not vote in AGS, or any other poll, for a number of personal reasons)

I feel you and think you have a legitimate gripe. And by your logic, I did vote CCSU into my top-25. But then again, I tend to err on the part of rewarding successful seasons, then I rely on the various ratings. I don't think it's fair to use the 'a Top 25 team should never lose to _________'. Upsets occur in football.

[iceman4221]

xlolxxlolx

isn't every team "special" in its own way?
just last week FAMU posters were running around saying they had a "special" team as well.
I'm pulling for ya'll to break the streak for the MEAC this year, so don't fugg it up
But until then, ya'll better hope we don't catch SCSU...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/24/54956500_857e582b2e.jpg?v=0

xsmiley_wix

No they are not, you know exact what I mean when I use the term "SPECIAL"...

You are taking the term out of context, there's nothings special for example, about a 1-5 DSU team, but there is definitely something special about a 5-1 SCSU team...

Compare the on field performances and it becomes "crystal clear" what way the term "SPECIAL" is meant and how I, intended for it to be interpreted...

SCSU will dispatch of DSU in the same fashion as they were by Delaware, FAMU, Bethune Cookman and Michigan... Your team cannot score - you avg 12.6 points a game and your defense gives up 25.2 points a game... Overall your school is dead last in the MEAC in total defense, rushing defense and pass defense...

We will beat you by 15-21 points on Oct 31, 2009 and if Buddy Pough does not call off the dogs, it could get worse - because its Homecoming...

[89Hen]

Liberty went 1-10 in 2005. New coach comes in, they go 6-5 in 2006, 8-3 in 2007, 10-2 in 2008 and are 4-2 right now and if they win out will be 9-2 (with only losses to I-A/FBS WVU and JMU). They are becoming what I call a GOOD team. Now if Delaware can start stringing together 8-9 win seasons and consistently make the playoffs, then yeah my tune will change about them.
Friggin comical. xlolx xlolx You must be the guy who writes the commercials stating... "XXXX is the fastest growing XXX company in America". IOW, it's easist to be the fastest growing if you're the smallest.

[89Hen]

I know, but SCSt is one of the teams who has made it clear that they desire to do well in the playoffs and to gain respect across I-AA. I understand the need to play USC, Clemson, etc... but then they should make sure their final OOC game is against somebody that will get them that respect. Two I-A's, Grambling, Benedict, etc... that's not going to cut it. xpeacex


SCSU does not play Benedict in 2009... We only played Steve Spurrier's USC Gamecocks, not two I-A schools and did quite well, I might add - in a losing effort... But USC is a top 25 I-A school and definitely better than UVA...

Come with facts and leave the last year and previous seasons in the past... All of my comments about SCSU, is about the 2009 edition... xnodx

As for Delaware you have a great history and have won National Titles and that's why I told one of your sister school posters that W&M was not Delaware, Georgia Southern, Youngstown St or App State... xthumbsupx
I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you overlooked my inclusion of GSU when talking about SCSU's scheduling. Nobody answered my question earlier of when was the last time SCSU beat somebody outside of the MEAC, SWAC, NAIA or TennSt.

BTW, Delaware has nothing to do with this discussion. Why do you keep bringing them up? xpeacex

[89Hen]

Richmond (A team whose consistency began just a few years ago).
Just two. These snapshot people crack me up. The only thing consistent in the CAA is inconsistency. I believe UNH's current 5 straight playoff appearances is the longest such streak in Yankee/A10/CAA history. This is not the Big Sky. xwhistlex

For those of us that have been around long enough remember when Maine went to back to back playoffs and won @ McNeese and @ AppSt and the Maine fans said, "we've arrived and we're going to be here for the long haul". Hofstra fans said the same thing when they first came to the CAA on a three year playoff run. JMU fans said it in 2004/05. Almost everyone in the CAA has gotten better in the last 10 years. I fully expect it will continue to be a dogfight each and every year. Any downturn by any team will be exposed quickly.

[89Hen]

S.C. State earned that rank because they played to win.
Strange statement. Do you know of any teams at any level that don't play to win? xconfusedx

[89Hen]

Respectfully, Delaware was a consistently good program before they put the footings and foundations in for Liberty Baptist College - and they have stayed that way for well over fifty (50) years. They play tough schedules EVERY year and yes, though they may have had an off-year or two recently, on balance they are perenially strong. How you cannot consider them a "good team" in light of such facts perplexes me. They are arguably the NY Yankees of I-AA football.
xoopsx xnonox I was going to give you positive rep... until the end. :p xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

First, SCSU does not play NAIA schools... FACT
Fine... SIAC.

[B&G]

I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you overlooked my inclusion of GSU when talking about SCSU's scheduling. Nobody answered my question earlier of when was the last time SCSU beat somebody outside of the MEAC, SWAC, NAIA or TennSt.

BTW, Delaware has nothing to do with this discussion. Why do you keep bringing them up? xpeacex

They beat Charleston Southern (Indep.) in 1999 or 2000. And they beat Furman in 1997 I believe. Not sure if they have had any since then. Savannah State maybe? They're an Indy now.

They had a couple of close calls against Wofford but I can't remember the years however it was at least in this decade.

I root for SCSU because my girlfriend went there. They're pretty good for sure. However, I'm not sure how someone can realistically say they're "special". I'm not even sure they're better than last year's squad. The QB (Malcolm Long) has gotten better but they have fallen off at a couple other spots. I wouldn't be disappointed if ASU drew them in the first round again.

I think the people who vote in the polls and the ones setting the playoff matchups do look at recent history. When a MEAC team wins a playoff game it will earn the entire conference some credibility. Until then, there is no point arguing about it. SCSU needs to show and prove when it matters this year and ONLY THEN will you have a leg to stand on next year.

[iceman4221]

I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you overlooked my inclusion of GSU when talking about SCSU's scheduling. Nobody answered my question earlier of when was the last time SCSU beat somebody outside of the MEAC, SWAC, NAIA or TennSt.

BTW, Delaware has nothing to do with this discussion. Why do you keep bringing them up? xpeacex

I have given homage to the schools that have multiple national championships and/or national championship appearances... Delaware is one of them...

[89Hen]

And I just fail to see how "team x could beat team y by two scores so they're out" is a part of a poll making process. Did anyone say "I bet Hofstra will beat JMU, so they're out of my poll, even though they beat Liberty"?

The point is that it's about resumes. Now whether you are biased more towards the bigger conferences or the smaller ones, the east coast or the west coast, good wins or good losses, whatever, that's up to you. But playing a game out in your head with what you presuppose about a team and ranking them based on it is pretty weak...
I will have to disagree with you. Obviously voters have to look at the results. But the problem is there are conferences who don't have a single game against each other and 6-7 weeks into the season may only have one or two common opponents (which is a dangerous way to compare two teams).

The human polls, believe it or not, look at a LOT more than the computers can ever see. What if an unranked team beats #5 in a monsoon where #5's All-American QB is lost for the game, but will return the following week? The computer is only going to see NR > #5 by x points. That's why humans will always be more accurate than the computers. Computer folks will deny it, but we've seen it in practice.

What you're describing above is a computer model, not a human poll. xpeacex

[89Hen]

I have given homage to the schools that have multiple national championships and/or national championship appearances... Delaware is one of them...

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but you don't have give homage to anyone. I was just puzzled why Delaware kept entering the conversation. As I said earlier, I don't have a problem with where SCSt is ranked or ranked in relation to UD. I have them ranked above UD. The only thing I'm contesting is that we won't know if SCSt is a top 10 team until the playoffs, because that's the first time they will face a top 10 opponent.

I think SCSt is one of the few MEAC schools that would actually like to be more a part of I-AA as a whole and less a part of just the MEAC or HBCU's when it comes to football. xpeacex

[89Hen]

People vote on two completely different criteria - and there's nothing telling them to vote one way or the other.

Some voters vote on body of work - who you've beat, where you've beaten them, who you've lost to, who you should not have lost to. It's a valid way to vote, but it's not required.

Others vote on how good they think the teams are. If you use this as your guiding principle, you can legitimately vote for an 0-6 team at #21 or so, if you think they've played six teams above them very well.

Neither are wrong. But people do vote following one, or the other. Most voters - in all polls - do try to reconcile this, but it's why you see a lot of weird things in the poll.
Very good post, but I'll add a little. Everyone has to start with the second criteria since no games are played. I've said on another thread... in Week 1 it's 100% expectation and 0% results. By the end of the season it's 0% expectation and 100% results. The problem isn't that there are two methods people use, it's that people arrive at the 0>100% at different times.

BTW, now that I've said it's 100% by the end of the season, even that's not entirely true. There will still be teams who haven't faced any common opponents with others in the Top 25 so there still is some guessing as to whom is better. xpeacex

[89Hen]

I think the people who vote in the polls and the ones setting the playoff matchups do look at recent history. When a MEAC team wins a playoff game it will earn the entire conference some credibility. Until then, there is no point arguing about it. SCSU needs to show and prove when it matters this year and ONLY THEN will you have a leg to stand on next year.
xnodx

And you got the question correct. That's a long time for SCSt.

[iceman4221]

Fine... SIAC.

SIAC is a Division II Conference not an NAIA affiliate... FACT
http://www.d2football.com/teams/

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_2_Football.pdf



SCSU has not played a member of the SIAC conference in over 25 years... FACT

http://michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/scarolst.htm

xsmiley_wix As I said before, SCSU does not play NAIA schools you are confusing us with other HBCU's we are not one and the same... xsmiley_wix

xsmhx In your mind this is a minor technicality, but since perception is reality it effects the way you vote in the polls xsmhx

I understand the notion to be right, but the truth is the facts don't support your position... So let it go...

I'm the one that you have been waiting to actively participate on this board, and no error by you or anyone else will get past me...
This doesn't apply only to SCSU or HBCU's but SoCon, CAA, MVC, OVC conferences as well.

xpeacex

[iceman4221]

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but you don't have give homage to anyone. I was just puzzled why Delaware kept entering the conversation. As I said earlier, I don't have a problem with where SCSt is ranked or ranked in relation to UD. I have them ranked above UD. The only thing I'm contesting is that we won't know if SCSt is a top 10 team until the playoffs, because that's the first time they will face a top 10 opponent.

I think SCSt is one of the few MEAC schools that would actually like to be more a part of I-AA as a whole and less a part of just the MEAC or HBCU's when it comes to football. xpeacex

This is very true!!!

[89Hen]

SCSU has not played a member of the SIAC conference in over 25 years... FACT
September 6, 2008 (http://thesiac.com/2008/09/06/south-carolina-state-dominates-benedict-42-3/)

You also played Benedict in 2004, 2003, 2002 and 1999... and Morris Brown in 2001

And you did play NAIA Johnson C Smith as recently as 1998.

[ElonPride]

September 6, 2008 (http://thesiac.com/2008/09/06/south-carolina-state-dominates-benedict-42-3/)

You also played Benedict in 2004, 2003, 2002 and 1999... and Morris Brown in 2001

And you did play NAIA Johnson C Smith as recently as 1998.

Sorry to but in, but isn't JC Smith D-II, not NAIA?

[inpsite1919]

September 6, 2008 (http://thesiac.com/2008/09/06/south-carolina-state-dominates-benedict-42-3/)

You also played Benedict in 2004, 2003, 2002 and 1999... and Morris Brown in 2001

And you did play NAIA Johnson C Smith as recently as 1998.

I agree about Benedict ( Game drew alot of money at first)
JC Smith is a DII School CIAA

[89Hen]

Sorry to but in, but isn't JC Smith D-II, not NAIA?
CIAA... I keep getting the letters messed up.

[89Hen]

JC Smith is a DII School CIAA
Yup. My mistake.

[purplepeopleeaterv2]

Even though JMU isn't in the top 25 what worries me is there are quite a few teams I see in the top 25 that I think JMU could beat relatively easy.

[State Line Liquors]

The voting process is private for a reason, good sir.

Yeah, I mean ya just hate to interfere with the integrity of the anonymous ballot. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, I just figured since you're being so vocal about how a poll should operate you'd like to give further merit to your strong convictions by backing it up on paper.



The point is that it's about resumes. Now whether you are biased more towards the bigger conferences or the smaller ones, the east coast or the west coast, good wins or good losses, whatever, that's up to you. But playing a game out in your head with what you presuppose about a team and ranking them based on it is pretty weak...

Part of a resume is the teams you play, the teams you beat, and how the teams you play fare. Record of the teams JMU has played (23-16). They've really beaten nobody but the 24th ranked team, took some other goodies to the wall, and fell very flat twice. Record of the teams CCU has played (16-21). Records of teams Lafayette has played (15-16). Only common opponent: Liberty. JMU beats Liberty by 14 @ Liberty. Lafayette loses to Liberty @ home. CCU gets mollywhopped by Liberty @ Liberty. Holy Cross combined record of opponents (7-27). CCSU (12-25).

I don't have a vote, but if I did I'd be thinking exactly like BigHouseClosedEnd, since frankly, it's really not a leap in judgement. JMU was the fur on a cats @$$ away from beating the #1 ranked team and defending national champion last week. JMU isn't going to play CCU, Lafayette, CCSU, or Holy Cross this year. But cripes, take a look at the quality of their opponents and how they've played them. It will be a war this weekend for them with W&M.

[iceman4221]

September 6, 2008 (http://thesiac.com/2008/09/06/south-carolina-state-dominates-benedict-42-3/)

You also played Benedict in 2004, 2003, 2002 and 1999... and Morris Brown in 2001

And you did play NAIA Johnson C Smith as recently as 1998.

Benedict and Johnson C Smith are NCAA Division II Programs... FACT

Thats why I put the link to the Div II for NCAA.org and the other link..

I stand by my original quote, SCSU HAS NOT PLAYED A NAIA SCHOOL... period...

[JMUNJ08]

Record of the teams JMU has played (23-16). Holy Cross combined record of opponents (7-27). CCSU (12-25).


Why would either be receiving ORV??? Looks to me like a lack of quality opponents. If you throw in just one game against a really good MEAC, IVY, or other lower conference at least the W/L will look better without a guarenteed whooping. JMU's even accounts for a horrible Maryland and VMI teams (record wise).

Albany has been trying to gain respect just fallin short. They are going about it the right way and others are at least applauding their efforts knowing it will happen one day.

[Ronbo]

Even though JMU isn't in the top 25 what worries me is there are quite a few teams I see in the top 25 that I think JMU could beat relatively easy.

Welcome to NAU land. xlolxxlolx

[aceinthehole]

Holy Cross combined record of opponents (7-27). CCSU (12-25).

Yet another stat that really makes you seriously question HC's ranking?

How can a team with a 5-1 record against opponents with a 7-27 record get ranked at all? Especially when their loss is to unranked Brown.

I think I've made a vaild point that some teams, such as Holy Cross, are unfairly ranked, while others like CCSU and Albany are routinely ignored for with the same or better results.

This ranking is about a team's record and their strength of schedule. But I'm not trying to comapre UA or CCSU in the NEC to a team like Delaware or JMU in the CAA. I don't equate the NEC with the CAA, but I do equate the NEC with the PL, Ivy, MEAC, Big South, etc.

I'm saying the PL (and others) are OVERATED conferences and their PERCEPTION by voters hasn't caught up with REALITY. Some teams like Holy Cross and EIU benefit from this perception, others like Albany and CCSU are disavantaged.

[MacThor]

Even though JMU isn't in the top 25 what worries me is there are quite a few teams I see in the top 25 that I think JMU could beat relatively easy.

Not with Thorpe (not easy at least).

[DSUrocks07]

For a division that actually HAS a playoff system, we still worry a lot about poll positions. xlolx

[WileECoyote06]

For a division that actually HAS a playoff system, we still worry a lot about poll positions. xlolx

True dat. xthumbsupx

I wonder if the same posters think of Boise State and TCU in the same manner.

[DSUrocks07]

Why would either be receiving ORV??? Looks to me like a lack of quality opponents. If you throw in just one game against a really good MEAC, IVY, or other lower conference at least the W/L will look better without a guarenteed whooping. JMU's even accounts for a horrible Maryland and VMI teams (record wise).

Albany has been trying to gain respect just fallin short. They are going about it the right way and others are at least applauding their efforts knowing it will happen one day.

"You're only as good as the teams you beat"

That's an addage that I believe rings true. If you pad your schedule with weak teams, you just might go undefeated, but that will leave you open to criticism to the quality of your opponents and rightfully so. The thing is that it goes both ways. If you play a super-tough schedule, and go 0-fer or only one or two wins, that doesn't mean that your good either. I'm not a voter in the AGS poll but if I was JMU, HC, and CCSU would all not be ranked.

[ToTheLeft]

I will have to disagree with you. Obviously voters have to look at the results. But the problem is there are conferences who don't have a single game against each other and 6-7 weeks into the season may only have one or two common opponents (which is a dangerous way to compare two teams).

The human polls, believe it or not, look at a LOT more than the computers can ever see. What if an unranked team beats #5 in a monsoon where #5's All-American QB is lost for the game, but will return the following week? The computer is only going to see NR > #5 by x points. That's why humans will always be more accurate than the computers. Computer folks will deny it, but we've seen it in practice.

What you're describing above is a computer model, not a human poll. xpeacex

I know that it's more than just wins and margins. Everything is taken into consideration. If UNI lost with Grace out, that's a consideration. But it's still not the same as "I think UNI could beat SFA by two scores, so I will discredit SFA..."

[ToTheLeft]

Yeah, I mean ya just hate to interfere with the integrity of the anonymous ballot. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, I just figured since you're being so vocal about how a poll should operate you'd like to give further merit to your strong convictions by backing it up on paper.



Part of a resume is the teams you play, the teams you beat, and how the teams you play fare. Record of the teams JMU has played (23-16). They've really beaten nobody but the 24th ranked team, took some other goodies to the wall, and fell very flat twice. Record of the teams CCU has played (16-21). Records of teams Lafayette has played (15-16). Only common opponent: Liberty. JMU beats Liberty by 14 @ Liberty. Lafayette loses to Liberty @ home. CCU gets mollywhopped by Liberty @ Liberty. Holy Cross combined record of opponents (7-27). CCSU (12-25).

I don't have a vote, but if I did I'd be thinking exactly like BigHouseClosedEnd, since frankly, it's really not a leap in judgement. JMU was the fur on a cats @$$ away from beating the #1 ranked team and defending national champion last week. JMU isn't going to play CCU, Lafayette, CCSU, or Holy Cross this year. But cripes, take a look at the quality of their opponents and how they've played them. It will be a war this weekend for them with W&M.

Oh, I forgot, the CAA Way. Lose to the best, look down on the rest.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.

[89Hen]

SCSU has not played a member of the SIAC conference in over 25 years... FACT


Benedict and Johnson C Smith are NCAA Division II Programs... FACT

Thats why I put the link to the Div II for NCAA.org and the other link..

I stand by my original quote, SCSU HAS NOT PLAYED A NAIA SCHOOL... period...
I think we both were muddling the letters. You said SCSU hadn't played an SIAC school. xpeacex

[TCisMYhero]

I know that it's more than just wins and margins. Everything is taken into consideration. If UNI lost with Grace out, that's a consideration. But it's still not the same as "I think UNI could beat SFA by two scores, so I will discredit SFA..."

I don't think UNI could beat anybody in the top 15 right now. Maybe you want to use SIU or Richmond as your model therexcoffeex. I'm inches from the ledgexnonono2x.

[89Hen]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.
Eh. I remember Richmond having to go to #2 Hampton in the first round.


HAMPTON, Va. - David Freeman and Tim Hightower each scored a pair of rushing touchdowns and A-10 Defensive Rookie of the Year Sherman Logan registered three sacks as Richmond defeated third-seeded Hampton, 38-10, on Saturday evening in the opening round of the 2005 NCAA I-AA playoffs.

http://www.richmondspiders.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/112705aaa.html

[SumItUp]

Not with Thorpe (not easy at least).

JMU is a different team with Thorpe behind center. The experience he is gaining this year should make him a strong leader in the future, but JMU is suffering in the near term with him at the helm. There is not a game on their schedule that is not winnable. I am sure W&M, Delaware and Massachusetts will not overlook them. As Thorpe goes, so goes JMU's season.

[SumItUp]

I don't think UNI could beat anybody in the top 15 right now. Maybe you want to use SIU or Richmond as your model therexcoffeex. I'm inches from the ledgexnonono2x.

Don't jump!!

[WileECoyote06]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.

I was going to say this. With their ticket sales, and if they finish undefeated versus their FCS schedule, I don't see how they won't get a home game.

But then again with the CAA loading up on at-large spots, they may get hosed.

[B&G]

I was going to say this. With their ticket sales, and if they finish undefeated versus their FCS schedule, I don't see how they won't get a home game.

But then again with the CAA loading up on at-large spots, they may get hosed.

True, they brought in almost 25k versus FAMU. They could put forth a nice bid even if they aren't a seed or paired to play against a seed.

[iceman4221]

Eh. I remember Richmond having to go to #2 Hampton in the first round.



http://www.richmondspiders.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/112705aaa.html

Hampton is not SCSU... When we hosted Playoff games in the past, we won the games... We are 2-3 in FCS (I-AA) playoffs... Our football program took a major dive after the early 1980's and is just now getting the type of student/athletes, coaching and alumni/donor, administrative support needed to have a winning program again... This 2009 edition of SCSU ain't Hampton U!!!.... You'll See...

[mcveyrl]

I was going to say this. With their ticket sales, and if they finish undefeated versus their FCS schedule, I don't see how they won't get a home game.

But then again with the CAA loading up on at-large spots, they may get hosed.

Somebody posted a pairing earlier that had SCSU @ W&M and I pointed out that assuming there were no seeds, I thought W&M would be travelling in that scenario.

Judging from last year's attendance numbers there are not a ton of teams that will beat them in that regard (again, assuming no seed issues).

[GannonFan]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.

I would have absolutely no problem with Devlin and company having to go to Orangeburg in the first round. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Hampton is not SCSU... When we hosted Playoff games in the past, we won the games... We are 2-3 in FCS (I-AA) playoffs...
1981-82.... Idaho State won the National Championship in 1981... things are a little different today.

BTW, kind of funny to note that one of your two wins was Tennessee State. You can't seem to get away from those games. :p

[WestCoastAggie]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.

Not if the GPI has anything to say. xwhistlex

[JMUNJ08]

I think CAA posters are frankly scared at the fact that a CAA team might - shudder - have to head to Orangeburg in the first round of the playoffs. :D Because if you look at SCSU's schedule, they look odds-on to finish 10-1. And if they win out, they'll be at about No. 5-No. 10 in the rankings and a shoo-in to host in the first round - with an outside shot at a seed.

W&M and Richmond would be the two within driving distance but if both win out they will get the home games. Both will draw decently 8-12K. A 2nd or 3rd place SoCo team will be the more logical choice at this point to head to O'burg.

They will only get seeded if the CAA destroys each team and all are 8-3 and UNI/SIU/SDSU don't get a seed. The schedule just doesn't give them a chance. Hampton was at least undefeated (SC I know is your only loss.)

The only reason a CAA team will be upset heading there is that they don't get a PL team in the first round...xwhistlex

[danefan]

Not if the GPI has anything to say. xwhistlex

Don't worry.....the GPI will have nothing to do with the playoffs this year.

[MacThor]

JMU is a different team with Thorpe behind center. The experience he is gaining this year should make him a strong leader in the future, but JMU is suffering in the near term with him at the helm. There is not a game on their schedule that is not winnable. I am sure W&M, Delaware and Massachusetts will not overlook them. As Thorpe goes, so goes JMU's season.

I agree completely. The post I was replying to said JMU could beat some of the teams in the Top 25 "relatively easy [sic]." But Thorpe hasn't led the Dukes to a TD against a ranked team all season. How's he going to make it "easy?"

[WestCoastAggie]

Don't worry.....the GPI will have nothing to do with the playoffs this year.

Actually the Selection Committee put out a statement this season stating the CSN's GPI rankings will be apart of the selection process.

[danefan]

Actually the Selection Committee put out a statement this season stating the CSN's GPI rankings will be apart of the selection process.

Re-read that statement. The Committee only uses a modified GPI for determination of the qualification for the "Bridge AQ" granted to the NEC and Big South.

The committee has said that it has its own rankings system which it uses to determine at-large eligibility. It has never said that ranking system is the GPI and the GPI has never intended to be that ranking system. By CSN's own words, the GPI is nothing more than a "predictor".

The Modified GPI will have no use by the Committee this year as none of the team from the Big South or NEC will meet the criteria for the Bridge AQ, neither Liberty, Albany or Central have two OOC wins against AQ leagues.

[jcmanson]

This "bridge AQ" does not apply for the Big South. If it did LU would have made the playoffs last year as they met all of the criteria.

[WileECoyote06]

W&M and Richmond would be the two within driving distance but if both win out they will get the home games. Both will draw decently 8-12K. A 2nd or 3rd place SoCo team will be the more logical choice at this point to head to O'burg.

They will only get seeded if the CAA destroys each team and all are 8-3 and UNI/SIU/SDSU don't get a seed. The schedule just doesn't give them a chance. Hampton was at least undefeated (SC I know is your only loss.)

The only reason a CAA team will be upset heading there is that they don't get a PL team in the first round...xwhistlex

Yeah I was thinking Furman or Elon. On another note, wouldn't it be ironic if App. State had to travel to Orangeburg?

[danefan]

This "bridge AQ" does not apply for the Big South. If it did LU would have made the playoffs last year as they met all of the criteria.

It applies to all conferences which meet the criteria for an AQ but were not granted one.

Doesn't the Big South meet the criteria this year?

[WestCoastAggie]

Re-read that statement. The Committee only uses a modified GPI for determination of the qualification for the "Bridge AQ" granted to the NEC and Big South.

The committee has said that it has its own rankings system which it uses to determine at-large eligibility. It has never said that ranking system is the GPI and the GPI has never intended to be that ranking system. By CSN's own words, the GPI is nothing more than a "predictor".

The Modified GPI will have no use by the Committee this year as none of the team from the Big South or NEC will meet the criteria for the Bridge AQ, neither Liberty, Albany or Central have two OOC wins against AQ leagues.

Oh ok. Gotchaxthumbsupx Thanks for the clarification.

[MacThor]

Yeah I was thinking Furman or Elon. On another note, wouldn't it be ironic if App. State had to travel to Orangeburg?

Doesn't App St. have an exemption from playing road games in the playoffs? ;)

[JMUNJ08]

I agree completely. The post I was replying to said JMU could beat some of the teams in the Top 25 "relatively easy [sic]." But Thorpe hasn't led the Dukes to a TD against a ranked team all season. How's he going to make it "easy?"

Some of the last 10 teams in there have a lot of "fluff" in their schedules to date. JMU could beat them with Thorpe but I wouldn't say blow out style. Maybe 2 td's at best if our defense stays hungry.

They just have to tailor the play calling to his strengths. Throwing right now isn't working and hasn't been a JMU strength. If he holds onto the ball and the OL comes together, we could pull a few out.

[danefan]

Oh ok. Gotchaxthumbsupx Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. The thread posted with that annoucement contained wording which made it look like the Committee was going to use the GPI. So I'm sure you're not the only one who thought that.

[JMUNJ08]

Doesn't App St. have an exemption from playing road games in the playoffs? ;)

Them and Montanaxlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Re-read that statement. The Committee only uses a modified GPI for determination of the qualification for the "Bridge AQ" granted to the NEC and Big South.

What the hell are you talking about? The GPI is absolutely used by the playoff subcommittee as a tool to help with at-large selection. What you've said above is an outright lie.

[danefan]

What the hell are you talking about? The GPI is absolutely used by the playoff subcommittee as a tool to help with at-large selection. What you've said above is an outright lie.

No its not. The Committee has never gone on record to say the use the GPI.

They have said they have their own ranking system which gets updated on their weekly conference call.

If you can find a quote from the commitee which says they use the GPI I'll glady retract my statement.

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/10/12/ncaa-d-i-fcs-to-officially-use-the-colle-2009?blog=5



The NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee has extended an invitation to College Sporting News (CSN) to have their Gridiron Power Index (GPI) used as a tool for the selection of teams for the 2009 NCAA Division I Football Championship.


The GPI rankings will be specifically used for the purposes of evaluating the champion of a conference that does not receive automatic qualification into the championship on an at-large basis.

[jcmanson]

It applies to all conferences which meet the criteria for an AQ but were not granted one.

Doesn't the Big South meet the criteria this year?

I haven't heard that. The only thing that wouldn't meet the criteria would be having enough teams playing in the same league for 2 years. We've had enough teams both last year and this year. Is that considered 2 years, or would it be considered 2 years next year?

[danefan]

I haven't heard that. The only thing that wouldn't meet the criteria would be having enough teams playing in the same league for 2 years. We've had enough teams both last year and this year. Is that considered 2 years, or would it be considered 2 years next year?

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_1AA_Football.pdf

Exact language of the Bridge AQ




6. For those conferences that qualify for automatic qualification but do not receive it, a guaranteed at-large position shall be awarded in any year in which its conference
champion team meets all of the following conditions:
a. Team wins a minimum of eight Division I games during the season;
b. Team wins a minimum of two nonconference games against Division I teams representing a conference that has earned an automatic qualification in that year;
and
c. Team finishes the season ranked 16 or higher in an average of the last regularseason media, coaches and/or computer polls (which will be determined by the committee on an annual basis). For 2008, the media poll will be the Sports Network Poll, the coaches poll will be the FCS Coaches poll and the computer poll will be a variation of the Gridiron Power Index – using only the following computer rankings: The Massey Ratings, Wolfe Rankings, Ashburn Rankings, Self Rankings and the Laz Index.


The question of the what 2 years means will be in the NCAA handbook which I'm trying to find now. My inclination is that it needs 2 prior years so that would make the Big South eligible in 2010. And then you'd be right - the Bridge AQ only applies to the NEC.

[ToTheLeft]

It applies to all conferences which meet the criteria for an AQ but were not granted one.

Doesn't the Big South meet the criteria this year?

Nope, Presby isn't full DI and Stony Brook wasn't in the league long enough. Next year is the first year we meet the criteria, and we will have an auto-bid.

[danefan]

Nope, Presby isn't full DI and Stony Brook wasn't in the league long enough. Next year is the first year we meet the criteria, and we will have an auto-bid.


http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2009/09_1AA_Football.pdf

Exact language of the Bridge AQ



The question of the what 2 years means will be in the NCAA handbook which I'm trying to find now. My inclination is that it needs 2 prior years so that would make the Big South eligible in 2010. And then you'd be right - the Bridge AQ only applies to the NEC.


You are correct. Language is the preceding two years:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/D1_Manual9d74a0b2-d10d-4587-8902-b0c781e128ae.pdf

[WestCoastAggie]

Here are the wolfe ratings up to this point of the season.

Here is the link: http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/ratings.htm#Division_I-AA

This week's top 10 in Division I-AA:
================================================== ======================
Rank Team Div W L PF PA Rating Chg
================================================== ======================
1 Richmond I-AA 6 0 184 97 4.477 xx
2 William & Mary I-AA 5 1 167 105 3.683 xx
3 Villanova I-AA 6 1 214 96 3.630 xx
4 Montana I-AA 6 0 221 118 3.551 xx
5 South Carolina St I-AA 5 1 171 112 3.085 xx
6 Stephen F. Austin I-AA 5 1 269 135 2.971 xx
7 Elon I-AA 5 1 194 75 2.946 xx
8 Southern Illinois I-AA 5 1 211 105 2.930 xx
9 Colgate I-AA 7 0 209 114 2.884 xx
10 Delaware I-AA 5 2 216 128 2.784 xx



Here is the link to the lazindex: http://www.lazindex.com/CFD1AACONF.htm

[89Hen]

Here are the wolfe ratings up to this point of the season.

5 South Carolina St I-AA 5 1 171 112 3.085 xx
9 Colgate I-AA 7 0 209 114 2.884 xx
10 Delaware I-AA 5 2 216 128 2.784 xx
xlolx xlolx xlolx at all three

[WestCoastAggie]

xlolx xlolx xlolx at all three

Laugh or not, the selection will be looking at this poll at the end of the season.

BTW: How the heck do they come up with these calculations?

[WestCoastAggie]

Here is the link to ALL of these polls and averages: http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm

[89Hen]

Laugh or not, the selection will be looking at this poll at the end of the season.

BTW: How the heck do they come up with these calculations?
No, the Selection Committee will not be looking at the Wolfe projections.

As for how they come up with them...

http://www.synthmania.com/Famous%20Sounds/Images/Old_computer.jpg

[89Hen]

BTW: How the heck do they come up with these calculations?
Actually, looking at his I-A rankings it's fairly clear that W-L is the most important factor...


1 Florida 6-0
2 Iowa 7-0
3 Alabama 7-0
4 Cincinnati 6-0
5 Boise St 6-0
6 TCU 6-0
7 Texas 6-0
8 LSU 5-1
9 Southern Cal 5-1
10 Oregon 5-1
11 Georgia Tech 6-1
12 Miami FL 5-1
13 Virginia Tech 5-2
14 Arizona 4-2
15 Central Michigan 6-1

[iceman4221]

1981-82.... Idaho State won the National Championship in 1981... things are a little different today.

BTW, kind of funny to note that one of your two wins was Tennessee State. You can't seem to get away from those games. :p

It is kinda funny you failed to acknowledge that the other wins was over the then xnodx SoCon Power FURMAN University... xnodx Whats up with that?!?!?

xeyebrowx Football involves blocking, tackling, passing, receiving, running, punting & kicking the ball, the rules have been modified but the game is still football... xeyebrowx

xnodx So, if you are gonna compare SCSU to someone, I would suggest FAMU, instead of MEAC schools that have no playoff win on their historical resume... OK xnodx

Thank you sir moving right along... xwhistlex

[89Hen]

It is kinda funny you failed to acknowledge that the other wins was over the then xnodx SoCon Power FURMAN University... xnodx Whats up with that?!?!?
IT WAS 1981. xlolx I only mentioned TSU as an aside.

Here's the bottom line.... SCSt hasn't won a playoff game since 1982. SCSt has played only one ranked team this year (FAMU who was 20-25ish). If SCSt makes the playoffs, they will most likely face the highest ranked team they've faced all year. We will have to wait until November 28th to see the finale to our discussion. xpeacex