Sports Network Poll 10/11/09

[bluehenbillk]

Don't shoot the messenger - YIKES!!

Team (First-place votes) Record Points Previous Rank
1. Richmond Spiders (119) 5-0 3,253 1
2. Northern Iowa Panthers (11) 5-1 3,050 3
3. Montana Grizzlies 5-0 2,936 4
4. New Hampshire Wildcats (1) 5-0 2,923 5
5. Southern Illinois Salukis 4-1 2,646 6
6. Villanova Wildcats 5-1 2,557 2
7. William & Mary Tribe 5-1 2,403 8
8. Elon Phoenix 5-1 2,292 10
9. Appalachian State Mountaineers 3-2 2,219 9
10. Central Arkansas Bears 4-1 2,129 11
11. South Carolina State Bulldogs 4-1 1,626 17
12. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 4-2 1,554 18
13. McNeese State Cowboys 3-2 1,455 7
14. South Dakota State Jackrabbits 4-1 1,345 20
15. Weber State Wildcats 3-3 1,240 21
16. James Madison Dukes 2-3 1,134 13
17. Colgate Raiders 6-0 1,007 23
18. Massachusetts Minutemen 3-2 950 12
19. Cal Poly Mustangs 2-3 785 15
20. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 4-1 733 NR
21. Eastern Washington Eagles 4-2 718 17
22. Florida A&M Rattlers 4-1 547 22
23. Delaware Blue Hens 4-2 530 NR
24. Eastern Kentucky Colonels 3-2 476 16
25. Holy Cross Crusaders 4-1 342 19
Others receiving votes: Liberty 255, Eastern Illinois 227, Harvard 213, Northern Arizona 182, Prairie View A&M 161, Chattanooga 84, Lafayette 65, Furman 57, Tennessee State 53, Montana State 50, Brown 49, Youngstown State 48, UC Davis 36, Morgan State 35, Albany 31, Maine 31, Gardner-Webb 21, Tennessee Tech 20, Butler 19, Central Connecticut State 13, Grambling State 11, Southeastern Louisiana 8, Southern 7, North Dakota 7, Hampton 6, Hofstra 6, Alabama A&M 5, Charleston Southern 5, Southern Utah 4, Georgia Southern 3, Old Dominion 3, Sam Houston State 3, Missouri State 2, Samford 2, Texas State 2, Drake 1.

[89Hen]

18. Massachusetts Minutemen 3-2 950 12
23. Delaware Blue Hens 4-2 530 NR
I don't normally pull out the homer observations on polls, but this one I couldn't pass up. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xnutsx

[smallcollegefbfan]

Don't shoot the messenger - YIKES!!

Team (First-place votes) Record Points Previous Rank
1. Richmond Spiders (119) 5-0 3,253 1
2. Northern Iowa Panthers (11) 5-1 3,050 3
3. Montana Grizzlies 5-0 2,936 4
4. New Hampshire Wildcats (1) 5-0 2,923 5
5. Southern Illinois Salukis 4-1 2,646 6
6. Villanova Wildcats 5-1 2,557 2
7. William & Mary Tribe 5-1 2,403 8
8. Elon Phoenix 5-1 2,292 10
9. Appalachian State Mountaineers 3-2 2,219 9
10. Central Arkansas Bears 4-1 2,129 11
11. South Carolina State Bulldogs 4-1 1,626 17
12. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 4-2 1,554 18
13. McNeese State Cowboys 3-2 1,455 7
14. South Dakota State Jackrabbits 4-1 1,345 20
15. Weber State Wildcats 3-3 1,240 21
16. James Madison Dukes 2-3 1,134 13
17. Colgate Raiders 6-0 1,007 23
18. Massachusetts Minutemen 3-2 950 12
19. Cal Poly Mustangs 2-3 785 15
20. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 4-1 733 NR
21. Eastern Washington Eagles 4-2 718 17
22. Florida A&M Rattlers 4-1 547 22
23. Delaware Blue Hens 4-2 530 NR
24. Eastern Kentucky Colonels 3-2 476 16
25. Holy Cross Crusaders 4-1 342 19
Others receiving votes: Liberty 255, Eastern Illinois 227, Harvard 213, Northern Arizona 182, Prairie View A&M 161, Chattanooga 84, Lafayette 65, Furman 57, Tennessee State 53, Montana State 50, Brown 49, Youngstown State 48, UC Davis 36, Morgan State 35, Albany 31, Maine 31, Gardner-Webb 21, Tennessee Tech 20, Butler 19, Central Connecticut State 13, Grambling State 11, Southeastern Louisiana 8, Southern 7, North Dakota 7, Hampton 6, Hofstra 6, Alabama A&M 5, Charleston Southern 5, Southern Utah 4, Georgia Southern 3, Old Dominion 3, Sam Houston State 3, Missouri State 2, Samford 2, Texas State 2, Drake 1.

I think Colgate is still too high and SFA is a little bit low. I would take out Holy Cross and put NAU in there. Surprised NAU is not getting more love.

[bluehenbillk]

SC State, how are they 11?
Are TSN voters afraid of Mickey Matthews & won't vote them too low or not at all?
Colgate 17? Can I get those happy pills?
Furman not ranked at all?

and..

You can call me a homer but UD blows away UMass, has the same # of losses & even one more win, but is 5 spots behind them.....

Old Dominion even got votes....xsmiley_wix

[Panther88]

Another clueless/worthless poll lol. :D xthumbsupxxsmiley_wix

[mcveyrl]

Another clueless/worthless poll lol. :D xthumbsupxxsmiley_wix

You've said that about two polls. What's your argument? I'm not saying it wouldn't be valid criticism, but I need something more than "clueless/worthless."

EDIT: Nevermind. Saw your post on the other thread. Yea, I'll get right on that.

Gotta love people that are all about criticism and never about fixin' ish.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Holy Cross still in after losing to Brown?

But man I just looked at the stats for that game. That must have been an aerial show with 114 passes and only 30 rushes combined!

[JSU02]

Moving on up :)

[TheValleyRaider]

Wins over Georgetown clearly aren't used what they used to be for Lehigh ;)

[89Hen]

Wins over Georgetown clearly aren't used what they used to be for Lehigh ;)
Yeah, wait a minute. At 0-4 they recieve 22 points and at 1-4 they don't get one? :p

[soccerguy315]

lol @ODU getting votes.

[Panther88]

You've said that about two polls. What's your argument? I'm not saying it wouldn't be valid criticism, but I need something more than "clueless/worthless."

EDIT: Nevermind. Saw your post on the other thread. Yea, I'll get right on that.

Gotta love people that are all about criticism and never about fixin' ish.

You cannot fix "dumb" mcveyrl. I made statements and have moved on. I've already accepted the logic of those, who voted in the polls lol. Even though it's quite flawed IMO.

Poor TCU... they're gonna' get screwed by the BCS powers that be. I see the same thing occurring here in these "FCS" polls. xpeacex

[crusader11]

Cue aceinthehole in 3...2...1...

[WestCoastAggie]

Didn't Holy Cross lose to Brown?

[89Hen]

Poor TCU... they're gonna' get screwed by the BCS powers that be. I see the same thing occurring here in these "FCS" polls. xpeacex
Except TCU getting screwed will cost them a trip to a BCS Bowl. I don't see anyone being screwed here that will cost them a trip to the playoffs. xpeacex

[WestCoastAggie]

Not many comedic votes this week. Damnit! xlolx

[danefan]

Not many comedic votes this week. Damnit! xlolx

Butler
Morgan State
PV A&M with that many
Old Dominion
Charleston Southern

All pretty comedic.

[WestCoastAggie]

Butler
Morgan State
PV A&M with that many
Old Dominion
Charleston Southern

All pretty comedic.

Oh come on. Those have SOME validity. xlolx

[IaaScribe]

Old Dominion, Butler and Charleston Southern have validity?

[WestCoastAggie]

Old Dominion, Butler and Charleston Southern have validity?

I'm JOKING! Geez xlolx

[Squealofthepig]

Charleston Southern - two wins over two teams with a combined record of 2-10. And those two wins (by the teams they beat) were against two squads who are a combined 0-12.

That is kinda hard to justify.

[IaaScribe]

I'm JOKING! Geez xlolx

Gotcha. ;)

[IaaScribe]

I will say this ... Once you get past the top 8 right now the poll is a crapshoot. Very difficult to parse between a few of these teams.

[Dinman31]

SC State, how are they 11?
Are TSN voters afraid of Mickey Matthews & won't vote them too low or not at all?
Colgate 17? Can I get those happy pills?
Furman not ranked at all?

and..

You can call me a homer but UD blows away UMass, has the same # of losses & even one more win, but is 5 spots behind them.....

Old Dominion even got votes....xsmiley_wix



Chattanooga gets 84 votes to Furman's 57 despite the Paladins have lost only to Elon on a last second field goal and at Mizzou while beating Chattanooga by 18 at UTC!

[GannonFan]

Sports Network - losing credibility poll after poll. The UMass/UD thing is just incredible, but it makes sense when you figure there's a good segment of Sports Network voters who probably don't follow any of the games. How else to explain Lehigh's 22 votes last week at 0-4 (apparently they were informed of their error last week and they "fixed" it this week).

But UMass gets destroyed by UD, UD has the better record while playing a tougher schedule to this point, and not only is UD behind UMass, they are well behind UMass.

But I guess we can rest assured - I'm sure the voters responsible for this will be talked to this week and their votes will be "fixed" next week. xrolleyesx

[IaaScribe]

FWIW, Gannon, I had Delaware at No. 14 and UMass at No. 22.

[GannonFan]

FWIW, Gannon, I had Delaware at No. 14 and UMass at No. 22.

I think I had it #15 and #24 in my poll so we wouldn't be far off. But to have any poll where UD isn't at least in the spot ahead of UMass is just plain silly. Last I checked, the games are supposed to matter, especially those silly head to head ones. xthumbsupx

[Tribe4SF]

I think I had it #15 and #24 in my poll so we wouldn't be far off. But to have any poll where UD isn't at least in the spot ahead of UMass is just plain silly. Last I checked, the games are supposed to matter, especially those silly head to head ones. xthumbsupx

Wait'll you see the Coaches Poll! UD not even ranked.xconfusedxxsmhx

[GannonFan]

Wait'll you see the Coaches Poll! UD not even ranked.xconfusedxxsmhx

Already saw it. UD loses on a last second FG block against Richmond, loses on the road to W&M by 10 (that's 11 total points for those keeping score), destroys UMass and wins every other game, and can't be ranked in one poll (where UMass is ranked) and just cracks the top 25 in another poll (where again, UMass is ranked much higher). And we thought the computer rankings were the bad part of the GPI - apparently the AGS poll is the only thing that is making sense these days. xnodx

[89Hen]

Already saw it. UD loses on a last second FG block against Richmond
I keep thinking how amazingly different everyone (especially gohens UD fans) would view this team if that chipshot isn't blocked. xwhistlex

[4N6]

Was wondering what anyone else thought about this ...

How about the pollsters come up with a Top Ten. That's it. Just ten.

Seems a Top Ten could be pretty-much agreed upon across the board. Then, leave out the "others receiving votes." Ranking teams as #13, #18, #21 or #25 seems to be a crapshoot.

Just an idea ... but again, I believe that serious pollsters and fans could agree upon, and look forward to a Top Ten in the nation. Yep, there would still be disagreements, but I honestly believe a Top 25 and others (with votes) is silly.

From a die-hard UNI Panther. Best wishes to all.

[jstclmet]

Was wondering what anyone else thought about this ...

How about the pollsters come up with a Top Ten. That's it. Just ten.

Seems a Top Ten could be pretty-much agreed upon across the board. Then, leave out the "others receiving votes." Ranking teams as #13, #18, #21 or #25 seems to be a crapshoot.

Just an idea ... but again, I believe that serious pollsters and fans could agree upon, and look forward to a Top Ten in the nation. Yep, there would still be disagreements, but I honestly believe a Top 25 and others (with votes) is silly.

From a die-hard UNI Panther. Best wishes to all.

Here's mine;

1. Richmond
2. Northern Iowa
3. New Hampshire
4. Montana
5. Villanova
6. Elon
7. William & Mary
8. Southern Illinois
9. Appalachian St.
10. South Carolina St

[Cocky]

Charleston Southern - two wins over two teams with a combined record of 2-10. And those two wins (by the teams they beat) were against two squads who are a combined 0-12.

That is kinda hard to justify.

They played Florida about as close as Troy State did.

[ValleyChamp]

Was wondering what anyone else thought about this ...

How about the pollsters come up with a Top Ten. That's it. Just ten.

Seems a Top Ten could be pretty-much agreed upon across the board. Then, leave out the "others receiving votes." Ranking teams as #13, #18, #21 or #25 seems to be a crapshoot.

Just an idea ... but again, I believe that serious pollsters and fans could agree upon, and look forward to a Top Ten in the nation. Yep, there would still be disagreements, but I honestly believe a Top 25 and others (with votes) is silly.

From a die-hard UNI Panther. Best wishes to all.


I agree with you. I think many of us can really agree on the 10 best teams, but in FCS it is hard for people to see alot of teams play games, and I think it is hard to determine who is ranked from 15-25 or whatever.

[Monarch Nation]

I posted this elsewhere about ODU getting votes:

Man, I hate to see ODU in the OVR section. They obviously are looking at 4-2 and not at ODU's stats. We may be 4-2, but two of those 4 were DII and the other two were teams that most FCS team would blow through like tissue paper.

Hey TSN, give us a few years and we'll earn our way onto the polls, but for now leave us alone and let us develop the program.

[OL FU]

I posted this elsewhere about ODU getting votes:

Man, I hate to see ODU in the OVR section. They obviously are looking at 4-2 and not at ODU's stats. We may be 4-2, but two of those 4 were DII and the other two were teams that most FCS team would blow through like tissue paper.

Hey TSN, give us a few years and we'll earn our way onto the polls, but for now leave us alone and let us develop the program.

At the same time you gotta be happy with this first year's team and even if the votes are unwarranted, it has to make you smile just a littlexnodx

[Monarch Nation]

I'm thrilled with this ODU team. The games are exciting, fun, and I haven't even been able to make one yet. I've been viewing them on the computer. I can't wait to occupy my season seats which up to now has hosted a variety of butts except mine.

I'm also excited about where this team is headed in the long run.

But I'm realistic enough to know that we'd get our lunch handed to us by most teams right now, and that inclusion in a poll - while flattering - is rally undeserving and is frankly an insult to the teams that have earned the right to be there.

Like I say, give us time and we'll be right in the mix and then my humble self will give way to my homer self. But for now, I know where we are and where we should be.

[89Hen]

I'm also excited about where this team is headed in the long run.

But I'm realistic enough to know that we'd get our lunch handed to us by most teams right now, and that inclusion in a poll - while flattering - is rally undeserving and is frankly an insult to the teams that have earned the right to be there.

Like I say, give us time and we'll be right in the mix and then my humble self will give way to my homer self. But for now, I know where we are and where we should be.
Just make sure to beat Gardner-Webb next year. xthumbsupx

[bigskyrocks]

not saying montana is the best team in the nation, but i dont see how they can be ranked in the top 10 all season be national runner up last yr, come off a win over a ranked team and still receive 0 first place votes. how does richmond deserve all those votes too, they came from behind to beat jmu, squeaked by delaware.. they havnt really looked like the number 1 team.

[Silenoz]

Well, I could see the logic in giving us a vote. I can also better see the logic for voting for Richmond xlolx



As I butcher grammar right and left

[PaladinFan]

Don't shoot the messenger - YIKES!!

Team (First-place votes) Record Points Previous Rank
1. Richmond Spiders (119) 5-0 3,253 1
2. Northern Iowa Panthers (11) 5-1 3,050 3
3. Montana Grizzlies 5-0 2,936 4
4. New Hampshire Wildcats (1) 5-0 2,923 5
5. Southern Illinois Salukis 4-1 2,646 6
6. Villanova Wildcats 5-1 2,557 2
7. William & Mary Tribe 5-1 2,403 8
8. Elon Phoenix 5-1 2,292 10
9. Appalachian State Mountaineers 3-2 2,219 9
10. Central Arkansas Bears 4-1 2,129 11
11. South Carolina State Bulldogs 4-1 1,626 17
12. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 4-2 1,554 18
13. McNeese State Cowboys 3-2 1,455 7
14. South Dakota State Jackrabbits 4-1 1,345 20
15. Weber State Wildcats 3-3 1,240 21
16. James Madison Dukes 2-3 1,134 13
17. Colgate Raiders 6-0 1,007 23
18. Massachusetts Minutemen 3-2 950 12
19. Cal Poly Mustangs 2-3 785 15
20. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 4-1 733 NR
21. Eastern Washington Eagles 4-2 718 17
22. Florida A&M Rattlers 4-1 547 22
23. Delaware Blue Hens 4-2 530 NR
24. Eastern Kentucky Colonels 3-2 476 16
25. Holy Cross Crusaders 4-1 342 19
Others receiving votes: Liberty 255, Eastern Illinois 227, Harvard 213, Northern Arizona 182, Prairie View A&M 161, Chattanooga 84, Lafayette 65, Furman 57, Tennessee State 53, Montana State 50, Brown 49, Youngstown State 48, UC Davis 36, Morgan State 35, Albany 31, Maine 31, Gardner-Webb 21, Tennessee Tech 20, Butler 19, Central Connecticut State 13, Grambling State 11, Southeastern Louisiana 8, Southern 7, North Dakota 7, Hampton 6, Hofstra 6, Alabama A&M 5, Charleston Southern 5, Southern Utah 4, Georgia Southern 3, Old Dominion 3, Sam Houston State 3, Missouri State 2, Samford 2, Texas State 2, Drake 1.

Can someone defend putting UTC ahead of Furman? Furman lost to the #8 team on the last possession of the game and blew out UTC on the road.

I realize people are falling in love with Chattanooga, but why is it everyone keeps forgetting Furman beat the tar out of them at their place?

[phoenix3]

Can someone defend putting UTC ahead of Furman? Furman lost to the #8 team on the last possession of the game and blew out UTC on the road.

I realize people are falling in love with Chattanooga, but why is it everyone keeps forgetting Furman beat the tar out of them at their place?

The most glaring error imho.

[SCPALADIN]

I guess we're getting penalized for losing to a top 25 BCS team while they get rewarded for beating a DII team with a losing record...go figure.

[Tribe4SF]

I'm thrilled with this ODU team. The games are exciting, fun, and I haven't even been able to make one yet. I've been viewing them on the computer. I can't wait to occupy my season seats which up to now has hosted a variety of butts except mine.


And the four butts I'm taking to the Campbell game this Saturday appreciate your predicament. As promised, I'll send you my honest appraisal.xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

not saying montana is the best team in the nation, but i dont see how they can be ranked in the top 10 all season be national runner up last yr, come off a win over a ranked team and still receive 0 first place votes. how does richmond deserve all those votes too, they came from behind to beat jmu, squeaked by delaware.. they havnt really looked like the number 1 team.

You ever think those teams they just squeaked by, both of which were road games for Richmond, may be pretty good teams? Both are ranked teams currently.

[PaladinFan]

The most glaring error imho.

It's a bit concerning. Furman has really yet to be ranked (though I think they are a pretty clear top 25 team) and their schedule has two more games against "top" teams. Wofford is not as good as we thought, nor is GSU, nor is Samford. Does this mean Furman has to put all their eggs in the "Beat App State" basket to move into playoff position?

With the loss to Elon, Furman will find it tough to get the auto bid. Understandably, the Paladins still have to take care of business against the rest of the conference, and 7-4 probably won't be enough to make the playoffs. But ranking them behind Prarie View, Harvard, Holy Cross, and Chattanooga after they let Elon slip past them just seems ridiculous.

[OL FU]

It's a bit concerning. Furman has really yet to be ranked (though I think they are a pretty clear top 25 team) and their schedule has two more games against "top" teams. Wofford is not as good as we thought, nor is GSU, nor is Samford. Does this mean Furman has to put all their eggs in the "Beat App State" basket to move into playoff position?

With the loss to Elon, Furman will find it tough to get the auto bid. Understandably, the Paladins still have to take care of business against the rest of the conference, and 7-4 probably won't be enough to make the playoffs. But ranking them behind Prarie View, Harvard, Holy Cross, and Chattanooga after they let Elon slip past them just seems ridiculous.

At the start of the year I thought there might be a slim chance that 7-4 would get the Paladins in the playoffs. I know longer think that. 7-4 losing to ASU and Auburn would mean no meaningful wins on the Paladins schedule. 7-4 beating APP but losing to somebody else would mean we have a bad loss. The only way we get in is to win out (except Auburn). The other slight possibility is that Chattanooga keeps winning and makes our victory over them look like a good one but I wouldn't count on it.

Of course this all changes if Elon and ASU fall apart and we end up the conference champ but I don't really see that happening either. Elon would have to lose two games and we would have to beat ASU and win the rest. I don't see Elon losing two games. With that said, I am rooting for whoever plays Elon and ASU. xthumbsupx

Slim chances all around. I really dislike two FBS games in a season.

[OL FU]

I guess we're getting penalized for losing to a top 25 BCS team while they get rewarded for beating a DII team with a losing record...go figure.

I think the Chatt votes are reward votes. After years of being nothing, people are responding to a good record. They shouldn't but they are.

[Bill Hanson]

Alll of these polls are just jokes.

[JSU02]

I guess we're getting penalized for losing to a top 25 BCS team while they get rewarded for beating a DII team with a losing record...go figure.

Wouldn't be the 1st time that has happened :(

[henfan]

Coulson really needs to fire off a missive to TSN voters, making sure they at least exercise a modicum of due diligence when casting their votes. Clearly that is not happening in 2010. Unless TSN wants its readers to consider its poll completely worthless, they had better step in. It's gotten really bad over the last two years.

Maybe there are things that TSN can do to better communicate with its pollsters, such as sending weekly notices of scores & records for the mostly likely Top 25-40 teams. That used to be done when Matt Doherty and Tony Moss were coordinating the polls but TSN has gotten away from it. Asking voters to do their own research or watch games is apparently too much to ask.xsmhx

Come on TSN. Get it together!

[smallcollegefbfan]

Coulson really needs to fire off a missive to TSN voters, making sure they at least exercise a modicum of due diligence when casting their votes. Clearly that is not happening in 2010. Unless TSN wants its readers to consider its poll completely worthless, they had better step in. It's gotten really bad over the last two years.

Maybe there are things that TSN can do to better communicate with its pollsters, such as sending weekly notices of scores & records for the mostly likely Top 25-40 teams. That used to be done when Matt Doherty and Tony Moss were coordinating the polls but TSN has gotten away from it. Asking voters to do their own research or watch games is apparently too much to ask.xsmhx

Come on TSN. Get it together!

I think the reason Coulson is asking voters to do their own research to a certain extent outside of sending results on Saturday night is because these are professionals who should want to send a good vote in so they are not laughed at. It is not Coulson's vote we are laughing at but the votes of many SIDs and media people who only see their team and spend all of 60 seconds putting their vote together. Coulson doesn't want to control the vote too much but it almost looks like you have to do it with some of these voters. I am all for him denying a vote by someone if they are going to vote stupid things such as ODU in the top 20 or give a 1-4 Ivy League team a vote.

[henfan]

Oh, I'm not blaming David at all. It's a tough job coordinating a poll as large as this one. He should be commended in that regard.

That said, it's TSN's responsibility to make it as easy as possible for the pollsters to cast votes, whether they are professionals or not. Most of the voters have other professional responsibilities aside from voting in the TSN poll. If TSN wants the most accurate poll possible, they are going to have to make it as easy as possible for the voters to evaluate the teams.

Unless TSN wants to erode participation & get even more lopsided voting, it doesn't make sense to take away votes. Make it easy for the voters to do their job and better results will follow. xtwocentsx

[89Hen]

Oh, I'm not blaming David at all. It's a tough job coordinating a poll as large as this one. He should be commended in that regard.
There are about 20-30 more voters on the TSN poll than the AGS. xpeacex

[smallcollegefbfan]

Oh, I'm not blaming David at all. It's a tough job coordinating a poll as large as this one. He should be commended in that regard.

That said, it's TSN's responsibility to make it as easy as possible for the pollsters to cast votes, whether they are professionals or not. Most of the voters have other professional responsibilities aside from voting in the TSN poll. If TSN wants the most accurate poll possible, they are going to have to make it as easy as possible for the voters to evaluate the teams.

Unless TSN wants to erode participation & get even more lopsided voting, it doesn't make sense to take away votes. Make it easy for the voters to do their job and better results will follow. xtwocentsx

AGS has denied a ballot before or told someone that they have a messed up pick and to change it. I know I had an error on mine once and they could assume I meant that team and just count it but instead let me know so I could change it. I don't know if Dave does that but if he hasn't before just saying something would have someone look at it. I don't know about you but if someone said hey this pick looks crazy I am guessing you meant this other team and even if I meant the team I put I would change it so someone doesn't think I am an idiot. LOL. Even though most people think that anyway.

[PaladinFan]

I think the Chatt votes are reward votes. After years of being nothing, people are responding to a good record. They shouldn't but they are.

It just doesn't make good sense. James Madison has a losing record and they are ranked in the top 20.

I don't think polls punish teams enough when they lose. If you have a losing record, I don't care what conference you play in, you shouldn't be high in the rankings.

[smallcollegefbfan]

It just doesn't make good sense. James Madison has a losing record and they are ranked in the top 20.

I don't think polls punish teams enough when they lose. If you have a losing record, I don't care what conference you play in, you shouldn't be high in the rankings.

So if you are 1-3 and you beat #15 in the nation but lost to 2 FBS teams and the #1 team you don't think you should be ranked ahead of a team who is 3-1 with their loss to a mid level OVC team and wins over Bryant, Georgetown, and Western Carolina?

It should be the top 25 teams not the top 25 records. If you go by what you said then a 4-2 JSU and 3-3 Weber State team would be behind 4-1 CCSU, 4-1 Lafayette, etc. and we all know JSU and WSU would kill both of those teams.

[Fear the Bird]

I completely agree with the rationale of JMU's 2-3 being "more impressive" than say the example above but if that's the case - why is Delaware not even ranked??? Their losses were to two top 10 teams (one on the road) and they were a higher arc field goal away from beating the number 1 team in the country. So if the rationale remains consistent...

[DSUrocks07]

i hate polls xcoffeex

[Squealofthepig]

It goes back to the basic question of what a voter is considering: Are you ranking the teams based on their body of work, or on how good you think they are? If you're a "body of work" type of voter, you should be more likely to heavily punish losses, even close losses. If you're a "best team" type voter, you could conceivably have a 1-3 team ranked in the top 20. A "best team" voter is also less likely to give an undefeated team a very high ranking if they've played light competition (e.g., Colgate).

JMU is an excellent example of a team that will be slotted in very different spots based on what type of voter you are. A body of work voter will go... 2-3? Hmm. Gotta be some teams with winning percentages here somewhere. A voter looking at how good a team JMU is however will invariably place them much higher, looking at the FBS loss and the close loss to Richmond as indicators of a really, really good football team.

Unless you have explicit instructions from the poll organizers how you should be voting (body of work vs. best team), you will always have a lot of stochastic noise in the numbers. This encourages fans to have long conversations like this, so it's unlikely to change.

[Fear the Bird]

Oh I completely understand the rationale but I'm just saying where is the consistency, with UD and JMU being the prime example. They should both be ranked fairly close based on the rationale being applied to JMU. The good thing is it will be settled on the field in 18 days but UD played Richmond "closer" and I don't think I would get any arguments that W&M is much better than Hofstra.

So the polls are telling me that an overtime loss to an atrocious Maryland team is that much more impressive than the "struggle" UD had with DSU??

[PaladinFan]

Oh I completely understand the rationale but I'm just saying where is the consistency, with UD and JMU being the prime example. They should both be ranked fairly close based on the rationale being applied to JMU. The good thing is it will be settled on the field in 18 days but UD played Richmond "closer" and I don't think I would get any arguments that W&M is much better than Hofstra.

So the polls are telling me that an overtime loss to an atrocious Maryland team is that much more impressive than the "struggle" UD had with DSU??

I just don't think you should rank teams early based on reputation. Remember Youngstown started out last season (or the year before) as something like a top 10 teams? They were atrocious all season.

Furman and UD have the same problem of having a "downish" year last year. Even though both programs have played top 10 teams to the wire, they are still losses. It just makes me uneasy when the people ranking the teams, and having some effect on playoff selection, are putting UTC over Furman, a mere three weeks after we beat them by 18.

[Squealofthepig]

...So the polls are telling me that an overtime loss to an atrocious Maryland team is that much more impressive than the "struggle" UD had with DSU??

Nahh, the polls just tell us that the voters collectively are infuriatingly fallible. :D That's my take - they're interesting, and you just have to have some faith that the right teams with 7 wins are ranked at least somewhat accurately in the final season poll.

(Though this is also the first year I can remember where the FBS voting is even weirder than the FCS voting. )xconfusedx

[PaladinFan]

Nahh, the polls just tell us that the voters collectively are infuriatingly fallible. :D That's my take - they're interesting, and you just have to have some faith that the right teams with 7 wins are ranked at least somewhat accurately in the final season poll.

(Though this is also the first year I can remember where the FBS voting is even weirder than the FCS voting. )xconfusedx

I just took a glance at the AP top 25 poll for the FBS. There's only one team with two losses in the top 25, Oklahoma.

There are 10 teams in this poll with two or more losses. Several with three losses.

[Native]

Holy Cross still in after losing to Brown?...

I was surprised, too.

[89Hen]

I just took a glance at the AP top 25 poll for the FBS. There's only one team with two losses in the top 25, Oklahoma.

There are 10 teams in this poll with two or more losses. Several with three losses.
Apples and oranges unless I-A teams start playing NFL teams. xpeacex

[MacThor]

Coulson really needs to fire off a missive to TSN voters, making sure they at least exercise a modicum of due diligence when casting their votes. Clearly that is not happening in 2010. Unless TSN wants its readers to consider its poll completely worthless, they had better step in. It's gotten really bad over the last two years.

Maybe there are things that TSN can do to better communicate with its pollsters, such as sending weekly notices of scores & records for the mostly likely Top 25-40 teams. That used to be done when Matt Doherty and Tony Moss were coordinating the polls but TSN has gotten away from it. Asking voters to do their own research or watch games is apparently too much to ask.xsmhx

Come on TSN. Get it together!

You mean Dave "eventual champion Richmond doesn't belong in the playoffs" Coulson?

[Franks Tanks]

not saying montana is the best team in the nation, but i dont see how they can be ranked in the top 10 all season be national runner up last yr, come off a win over a ranked team and still receive 0 first place votes. how does richmond deserve all those votes too, they came from behind to beat jmu, squeaked by delaware.. they havnt really looked like the number 1 team.

Richmond beat Duke and has wins over ranked teams, how could you argue against them being 1 at this point xeyebrowx

[CamelCityAppFan]

Richmond beat Duke and has wins over ranked teams, how could you argue against them being 1 at this point xeyebrowx

You can't...IMHO the rule of "Last Year's Champ Stays #1 Until They Lose" is always in effect, even weeks into the season. If Richmond wins out, they should be #1 seed going into the playoffs. xcoffeex

[phoenix3]

At the start of the year I thought there might be a slim chance that 7-4 would get the Paladins in the playoffs. I know longer think that. 7-4 losing to ASU and Auburn would mean no meaningful wins on the Paladins schedule. 7-4 beating APP but losing to somebody else would mean we have a bad loss. The only way we get in is to win out (except Auburn). The other slight possibility is that Chattanooga keeps winning and makes our victory over them look like a good one but I wouldn't count on it.

Of course this all changes if Elon and ASU fall apart and we end up the conference champ but I don't really see that happening either. Elon would have to lose two games and we would have to beat ASU and win the rest. I don't see Elon losing two games. With that said, I am rooting for whoever plays Elon and ASU. xthumbsupx

Slim chances all around. I really dislike two FBS games in a season.

How about 8-3 with no loss to App

[Native]

Already saw it. UD loses on a last second FG block against Richmond, loses on the road to W&M by 10 (that's 11 total points for those keeping score), destroys UMass and wins every other game, and can't be ranked in one poll (where UMass is ranked) and just cracks the top 25 in another poll (where again, UMass is ranked much higher). And we thought the computer rankings were the bad part of the GPI - apparently the AGS poll is the only thing that is making sense these days. xnodx

So what the heck is that!??!

"East Shore Bias?"

[PaladinFan]

How about 8-3 with no loss to App

If Furman gets to 8-3, I think they are a mortal lock for the playoffs as that will either mean a win over Auburn or App State and only one conference loss. Hard to argue that the #2 SoCon team doesn't belong in.

[GannonFan]

If Furman gets to 8-3, I think they are a mortal lock for the playoffs as that will either mean a win over Auburn or App State and only one conference loss. Hard to argue that the #2 SoCon team doesn't belong in.

As long as the #2 SoCon team is at least 8-3, then yes, they will be a mortal lock for the playoffs. But as 2003 showed, if there isn't an 8-3 2nd place team (or better), the SoCon can and has gotten just one team in the playoffs.

[OL FU]

As long as the #2 SoCon team is at least 8-3, then yes, they will be a mortal lock for the playoffs. But as 2003 showed, if there isn't an 8-3 2nd place team (or better), the SoCon can and has gotten just one team in the playoffs.

With the way the SoCon is looking this year, 8-3 is a requirement. I suppose ASU might sneak in at 7-4 considering their recent success, but I kind of doubt it since that would probably mean losing to Elon and one of the following (FU, GSU, Wofford, Chatt). Doesn't sound like a playoff record to me.

[R.A.]

SC State, how are they 11?
Are TSN voters afraid of Mickey Matthews & won't vote them too low or not at all?
Colgate 17? Can I get those happy pills?
Furman not ranked at all?

and..

You can call me a homer but UD blows away UMass, has the same # of losses & even one more win, but is 5 spots behind them.....

Old Dominion even got votes....xsmiley_wix

You're not advocating that Colgate be higher, are you???

Colgate almost lost to Princeton. PRINCETON!

[GannonFan]

You're not advocating that Colgate be higher, are you???

Colgate almost lost to Princeton. PRINCETON!

I'm pretty sure that poster didn't even have Colgate in his rankings. xcoffeex