View Full Version : Central Connecticut is a top 25 team
danefan
October 11th, 2009, 05:39 PM
4-1 with their only loss to W&M in a respectable game.
If you are considering Colgate as a top 25 team there is no reason that Central shouldn't be in the mix as well.
Albany would have been too if UMass had won this weekend, but UMass's butt kicking looks bad for Albany even though the Maine win is getting better.
If you are going to put a team like Colgate in, you have no reason to leave Central out.
xtwocentsx
WestCoastAggie
October 11th, 2009, 05:46 PM
Great argument and they might be in with FAMU & Holy Cross losing.
Ud1Hens
October 11th, 2009, 05:53 PM
4-1 with their only loss to W&M in a respectable game.
If you are considering Colgate as a top 25 team there is no reason that Central shouldn't be in the mix as well.
Albany would have been too if UMass had won this weekend, but UMass's butt kicking looks bad for Albany even though the Maine win is getting better.
If you are going to put a team like Colgate in, you have no reason to leave Central out.
xtwocentsx
You beat them when they were a top 15 team...since then they've gone 1-3, with 2 of their overall wins being against a DII team in OT and a winless Northeastern team. I wouldn't exactly say it's getting better.
If you want to put CCSU in the top 25 that's fine. The teams that they have beaten are nothing short of horrible though. Unfortunately with their remaining schedule we will never really know how good they are. They had one 'premeir' game on their schedule and lost.
bluehenbillk
October 11th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Well I saw Colgate play a bad Princeton team Thursday night. I don't have of the Patsy teams ranked and going by your logic, I don't have CCSU ranked either. Honestly, I didn't even consider them.
Native
October 11th, 2009, 06:00 PM
4-1 with their only loss to W&M in a respectable game.
If you are considering Colgate as a top 25 team there is no reason that Central shouldn't be in the mix as well.
Albany would have been too if UMass had won this weekend, but UMass's butt kicking looks bad for Albany even though the Maine win is getting better.
If you are going to put a team like Colgate in, you have no reason to leave Central out.
xtwocentsx
Central Connecticut with one 19-point "respectable" loss and no quality wins? CCSU is 36th among FCS teams in this week's Sagarin ratings.
Colgate with a perfect record over cupcakes? Colgate is 33rd among FCS teams in this week's Sagarin ratings.
At least Albany has a quality win over Maine, but even so Albany is raked 40th among FCS teams in this week's Sagarin ratings.
danefan
October 11th, 2009, 06:01 PM
Central Connecticut with one 19-point "respectable" loss and no quality wins?
Colgate with a perfect record over cupcakes?
At least Albany has a quality win over Maine.
So you don't have Colgate in either?
aceinthehole
October 11th, 2009, 06:02 PM
4-1 with their only loss to W&M in a respectable game.
If you are considering Colgate as a top 25 team there is no reason that Central shouldn't be in the mix as well.
Albany would have been too if UMass had won this weekend, but UMass's butt kicking looks bad for Albany even though the Maine win is getting better.
If you are going to put a team like Colgate in, you have no reason to leave Central out.
xtwocentsx
That's the key point! Im not sure if CCSU is Top-25, but they are in the mix with teams like Colgate, Liberty, etc.
See my other post about "Top-25 bubble teams" and how close the resumes are for about a dozen teams. xthumbsupx
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64752
danefan
October 11th, 2009, 06:02 PM
You beat them when they were a top 15 team...since then they've gone 1-3, with 2 of their overall wins being against a DII team in OT and a winless Northeastern team. I wouldn't exactly say it's getting better.
If you want to put CCSU in the top 25 that's fine. The teams that they have beaten are nothing short of horrible though. Unfortunately with their remaining schedule we will never really know how good they are. They had one 'premeir' game on their schedule and lost.
Never said it was good. I just said it was getting better.
Would you say Colgate is a top 25 team?
aceinthehole
October 11th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Well I saw Colgate play a bad Princeton team Thursday night. I don't have of the Patsy teams ranked and going by your logic, I don't have CCSU ranked either. Honestly, I didn't even consider them.
I can respect that 'Gate and CCSU aren't in your poll. But why won't you CONSIDER CCSU, when you considered similar teams?
Native
October 11th, 2009, 07:53 PM
So you don't have Colgate in either?
I have Colgate in my top 25 this week, more as a nod to the AQ than to where I really think they would rank according to who they might be able to beat in a head to head matchup.
Native
October 11th, 2009, 08:02 PM
Great argument and they might be in with FAMU & Holy Cross losing.
I do not count a loss the the U against FAMU. If anything, I give them extra credit for playing a top 10 FBS team.
danefan
October 11th, 2009, 08:02 PM
I have Colgate in my top 25 this week, more as a nod to the AQ than to where I really think they would rank according to who they might be able to beat in a head to head matchup.
What? xlolxxlolxxlolx
Is that how you vote?
BTW - I suspect that you are not alone. This illogical (nothing personal) voting is why polls are worthless.
Native
October 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM
What? xlolxxlolxxlolx
Is that how you vote?
BTW - I suspect that you are not alone. This illogical (nothing personal) voting is why polls are worthless.
There is a difference between "worthless" and "flawed." and there is no perfectly logical or fair system! The only way to do it right is on the field.
I take many considerations into account, including win-loss record, strength of schedule, the blogs, the Sagarin and Massey ratings and the other polls.
On my weekly spread sheet, I capture the scores, the Sagarin ratings, performance versus the Sagarin predictors, yards gained versus yards allowed, and net turnovers.
Each week, I move teams up or down based on recent performances and to a lesser extent, their opponents' recent performances. When jostling teams up or down one or two notches, I try to figure out which team would most likely win in a head to head matchup.
I know the ratings are flawed, but no more so than the polls or the rampant homerism on the blog sites.
chattanoogamocs
October 12th, 2009, 02:38 AM
In the updated Sagarin's...
(not that I am holding that out to be the authority, just nice to make a point :))
145. Chattanooga 4-1
146. Colgate 6-0
150. Central Conn. State 4-1
151. Holy Cross 4-1
Just thought I would throw that out since very few are talking about Chattanooga...if Colgate and Holy Cross are in the poll...and people are making arguments for CCSU...then Chattanooga should probably be in the discussion too.
Apologies if anyone thinks I hijacked the thread.
bluehenbillk
October 12th, 2009, 08:02 AM
I can respect that 'Gate and CCSU aren't in your poll. But why won't you CONSIDER CCSU, when you considered similar teams?
All depends on your definition of similar. Didn't spend much time thinking about NEC or Patriot teams.
smallcollegefbfan
October 12th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Great argument and they might be in with FAMU & Holy Cross losing.
The only problem is that FAMU lost to Miami and I don't think they should be dropped for that. I don't drop teams for FBS losses.
On this argument of who should be ranked I have Colgate in but don't have CCSU or Albany and never consider them because they don't have any wins against top 25 and they are never in the playoffs. The Patriot League might be down but they have played in the playoffs and had success. I also think that their top 2 teams are usually ones that can play respectable games against top teams.
On the 19-point respectable loss I was not there so I don't know for sure but sometimes teams get conservative when they are up by 2-3 touchdowns late and just sit on the ball. Perhaps W&M got up by 19 and just got out of there with the win instead of trying to run it up. It looked like it. They scored a field goal in the third quarter and played everyone on the bench and ran the clock out just to get out of there is what it looks like from the box score. W&M just came off the Virginia win as well so you know they spent most of the week celebrating that win and not preparing like many teams do and shouldn't. I would not gauge that game against W&M to say CCSU should be ranked.
If CCSU wins out and W&M finishes the season in the top 10 then I might put them 23-25 but by then teams like UTC who are surprising might be 7-4 and I think UTC warrants a ranking right now before CCSU or Albany, especially if they beat GSU and hang very close with Elon. If UTC comes out and loses to GSU and gets beat by Elon by 20 or so then I won't look at them again for the rankings unless they win 3 of the next 4 and even then I probably would only put them in there if it got tough finding 25 good teams and they play in one of the top three leagues in FCS.
We will know how close the gap really is in the playoffs next year. I would like to see NEC and Pioneer League teams play #2-6 type teams in the Big Sky, CAA, SoCon, MVC, etc. much more often so we could get a better gauge. If they did that I would be all for ranking them. It just happens that you have a tough time doing it because unlike the Patriot League, MEAC, etc. we don't see their champ in the playoffs to gauge the top of their league. Next year we will though! :)
danefan
October 12th, 2009, 09:32 AM
Thank you everyone for confirming what I originally suspected.
The mere fact that Colgate plays in a league that has an AQ means they deserve to be in the top 25 over teams that don't.
xwhistlex
aceinthehole
October 12th, 2009, 09:39 AM
On this argument of who should be ranked I have Colgate in but don't have CCSU or Albany and never consider them because they don't have any wins against top 25 and they are never in the playoffs. The Patriot League might be down but they have played in the playoffs and had success. I also think that their top 2 teams are usually ones that can play respectable games against top teams.
So, let me get this right.
- NEC teams can't be ranked because they don't have the AQ?
- PL is down, but they've had "success" in the playoffs recently?
(who else actually thinks this way?)
This is the madness. I'll say it again, I'm not 100% sure CCSU is a top-25 team YET, but there is no doubt that you teams like CCSU and ALbany should be in the same breath as Colgate, Holy Cross, and Lafayette.
Now, if you think all these teams are weak, that's OK with me. I just don't get why its ok for Colagte who's best win is over a NEC team Monmouth, is someohow on a different level than CCSU.
For the most part, the conference leaders from the PL, NEC, MEACBig South, and OVC are in the same group. You can debate the finer points of their specific resumes, but its inconsistant to say that some teams can't be CONSIDERED because of their conference!
WestCoastAggie
October 12th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Im just glad that the MEAC is considered!:p
Schfourteenteen
October 12th, 2009, 09:51 AM
The way out is to schedule quality OOC opponents. Not just one though, enough to show where you are. Unfortunately getting a home and home with good squads seems to be tougher than it looks, as a good amount of deals either fall through or never get talked about.
Scheduling W+M and Maine is a start, but it takes 3 legitimate(Autobid) games to get a rough guesstimation of where teams are at.
danefan
October 12th, 2009, 09:55 AM
The way out is to schedule quality OOC opponents. Not just one though, enough to show where you are. Unfortunately getting a home and home with good squads seems to be tougher than it looks, as a good amount of deals either fall through or never get talked about.
Scheduling W+M and Maine is a start, but it takes 3 legitimate(Autobid) games to get a rough guesstimation of where teams are at.
I agree, but there are many other teams in the Top 25 who haven't done that either.
Thats the point of my thread.
danefan
October 12th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Something interesting for those of you to read:
http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/sundays-word-numbers.html
I don't like the GPI, but some people like to use computer numbers to prop up their arguments. For those of you who like computers, maybe you should take a look at this.
aceinthehole
October 12th, 2009, 10:28 AM
The way out is to schedule quality OOC opponents. Not just one though, enough to show where you are. Unfortunately getting a home and home with good squads seems to be tougher than it looks, as a good amount of deals either fall through or never get talked about.
Scheduling W+M and Maine is a start, but it takes 3 legitimate(Autobid) games to get a rough guesstimation of where teams are at.
CCSU scheduled Lehigh (who was supposed to be a PL contender) and an improving Columbia. Albany also had Geogria Southern and UMass.
Who did Colgate schedule? Monmouth (NEC), Stony Brook (Big South), and 2 Ivy games.
CCSU already has Youngstown State and New Hampshire on next year's schedule! So if the 'Guins have a bad season next year, that's our fault. xrolleyesx
aceinthehole
October 12th, 2009, 10:38 AM
The way out is to schedule quality OOC opponents. Not just one though, enough to show where you are. Unfortunately getting a home and home with good squads seems to be tougher than it looks, as a good amount of deals either fall through or never get talked about.
Scheduling W+M and Maine is a start, but it takes 3 legitimate(Autobid) games to get a rough guesstimation of where teams are at.
Here are some more interesting numbers from Sargins. How about these Strenghth of Schedule (SOS) ranking:
Albany (210)
CCSU (211)
Lafayette (213)
Holy Cross (224)
Colgate (226)
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc09.htm
Tribe4SF
October 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM
I've had CCSU on my radar since their trip to Williamsburg, and they are a team I've considered each week. If they keep winning and beat Albany, I will likely vote them top 25. I was impressed with how they played against the Tribe.
UAalum72
October 12th, 2009, 11:06 AM
The way out is to schedule quality OOC opponents. Not just one though, enough to show where you are.
it takes 3 legitimate(Autobid) games to get a rough guesstimation of where teams are at.
Please let us know now who will finish in the top ten next year so we can schedule them.
Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine were all top 20 when the season started. Once the NEC played them they aren't any more, but the NEC teams aren't helped.
The voters who were wrong about them early in the year are the same ones who don't vote for the NEC later. Do they somehow get smarter between August and November?
Franks Tanks
October 12th, 2009, 11:11 AM
Please let us know now who will finish in the top ten next year so we can schedule them.
Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Maine were all top 20 when the season started. Once the NEC played them they aren't any more, but the NEC teams aren't helped.
The voters who were wrong about them early in the year are the same ones who don't vote for the NEC later. Do they somehow get smarter between August and November?
Lehigh was not top 20 and its not CCSU's fault that Lehigh is unranked.
Also is the same breathe Ace in the hole uses Columbia and Lehigh to show why CCSU has a quality schdule, and then downgrades the Ivy and PL teams??? Dont get it
Franks Tanks
October 12th, 2009, 11:14 AM
CCSU scheduled Lehigh (who was supposed to be a PL contender) and an improving Columbia. Albany also had Geogria Southern and UMass.
Who did Colgate schedule? Monmouth (NEC), Stony Brook (Big South), and 2 Ivy games.
CCSU already has Youngstown State and New Hampshire on next year's schedule! So if the 'Guins have a bad season next year, that's our fault. xrolleyesx
You scheduled a PL and an Ivy as well--so that is indicitive of a strong schedule for CCSU and a weak one for Colgate??
This is the first year in memory Colgate hasnt played a CAA or like school. Gate played Furman last year and will play them again last year. I have a feeling Gate was intending to play Furman this year but it was moved by Furman. Why else would they skip a year in the series? Also you fault Colgate for scheduling a NEC team for "weak scheduling" but that is your conference-- again not following the agruement.
RichH2
October 12th, 2009, 11:16 AM
I'm all for CCSU getting into the top 25. An unbiased opinion xwhistlex
GannonFan
October 12th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Thank you everyone for confirming what I originally suspected.
The mere fact that Colgate plays in a league that has an AQ means they deserve to be in the top 25 over teams that don't.
xwhistlex
I didn't get that from most of the posts. Heck, to be honest, there were plenty of posts that discredit the Patriot League just as much as the non-AQ conferences. I don't think the AQ matters that much to most posters. Bad is bad, regardless if bad still gets you into the playoffs with the AQ or not. xthumbsupx
SumItUp
October 12th, 2009, 11:51 AM
I don't drop teams for FBS losses.
I don't think that FAMU should be dropped because of their game with Miami, but there are times that a team should be dropped. I watched Eastern Illinois play Penn State on TV last Saturday in their 52-3 loss. Penn State could have scored 80. It was ugly. They were overmatched in every aspect of the game. Top 25 teams in the FCS should be able to compete with FBS (even the best ones) for at least half of a game.
WestCoastAggie
October 12th, 2009, 11:57 AM
I don't think that FAMU should be dropped because of their game with Miami, but there are times that a team should be dropped. I watched Eastern Illinois play Penn State on TV last Saturday in their 52-3 loss. Penn State could have scored 80. It was ugly. They were overmatched in every aspect of the game. Top 25 teams in the FCS should be able to compete with FBS (even the best ones) for at least half of a game.
If that is the case, sadly, FAMU should drop a spot. They just didn't look as good as SC State looked in Columbia. The Fightin' Spurriers had some lucky breaks in that first half.
But I digress. xcoffeex
Central Conn. Should be getting votes in this weeks' polls.
smallcollegefbfan
October 12th, 2009, 12:10 PM
I don't think that FAMU should be dropped because of their game with Miami, but there are times that a team should be dropped. I watched Eastern Illinois play Penn State on TV last Saturday in their 52-3 loss. Penn State could have scored 80. It was ugly. They were overmatched in every aspect of the game. Top 25 teams in the FCS should be able to compete with FBS (even the best ones) for at least half of a game.
That is very true. I didn't have EIU in my top 25 anyway with a loss to EKU and then with EKU losing to Tenn State I dropped EKU just out of my top 25 and EIU is now so far down they would have to win out to get back in.
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