Colgate vs. Princeton - game thread

[Go...gate]

Colgate SID's pre-game summary:

http://www.gocolgateraiders.com/news/2009/10/6/FB_1006094055.aspx

Princeton SID's pre-game summary:

http://www.goprincetontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=46859&SPID=4263&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=10600&ATCLID=204808402

Let the discussions begin!

[RichH2]

OK, if Gate does not slack off too much, would not be surprised 49-7 type of final

[Go...gate]

The weather report for Thursday is for clear and cool - 50's.

[TheValleyRaider]

Some great quotes from Biddle

http://www.syracuse.com/poliquin/index.ssf/2009/10/the_colgate_football_raiders_u.html


“We've never had a Thursday-night game. But at this level, you don’t get many chances to be on national TV. People might ask, ‘Why are you doing this?’ Hey, we want to be on TV. That’s only going to happen once in these guys’ lives. I think it’ll be fun.”
------------------------------------------------
“When this whole TV thing came up in the summer,” said Biddle, “I thought it was a good idea. Now, in hindsight, I’m worried about Thursday night. There’s this thought that, ‘Gee, now that we’re 5-0, I wish we had a full week to prepare for Princeton.’ But, come on. That’s going to be Colgate on TV, and a lot of people will be watching. You've got to be excited about that.”

The coach is excited, I'm excited. Should be fun! xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Colgate wins in a romp. Next!

[Go...gate]

Columbia's 38-0 win over Princeton Saturday was the Lions' largest margin of victory since a 44-0 Columbia win over Fordham in 1972.

Notwithstanding, Coach Roger Hughes' job appears secure. PU was 9-1 and Ivy League Champions in 2006.

[ColgateTD]

This type of situation makes me very nervous.....xeekx The game may be closer than folks think. After being pounded by Columbia, PU is going to be out for blood on Thursday. We just need to stick to our basic game plan and we should be OK. Also: heads up for their gadget plays!

[carney2]

This type of situation makes me very nervous.....xeekx The game may be closer than folks think.

If true, the Patriot League is definitely a two team race as LFN suggested a few weeks ago.

[Go...gate]

This type of situation makes me very nervous.....xeekx The game may be closer than folks think. After being pounded by Columbia, PU is going to be out for blood on Thursday. We just need to stick to our basic game plan and we should be OK. Also: heads up for their gadget plays!

I'll be interested to see what the PU student turnout is for this game. There were precious few for The Citadel and Columbia.

[Franks Tanks]

I'll be interested to see what the PU student turnout is for this game. There were precious few for The Citadel and Columbia.

What are the chances Princeton wears those atrocious Orange jersey's??? I say pretty good unfortunantly.

[ColgateTD]

Back in the day those orange jerseys with the black stripes were their "lucky" jerseys. I witnessed a few upsets of good Dartmouth teams in the last game of the season for the IL Championship when the Tigers wore those jerseys.

Hope they don't resort to those tactics against 'Gate.....xnonox

[DJOM]

Princeton has a history of playing well at night--last year against Penn was the exception. Its nice to give the young men from both teams the chance to appear on National TV.

[Go...gate]

Back in the day those orange jerseys with the black stripes were their "lucky" jerseys. I witnessed a few upsets of good Dartmouth teams in the last game of the season for the IL Championship when the Tigers wore those jerseys.

Hope they don't resort to those tactics against 'Gate.....xnonox

Right - most recently, they wore them a couple of times in 2006 when they won the Ivy League.

If Colgate comes down focused and plays the way it is capable, they should win.

I'm getting all kinds of e-mails from Colgate regarding the game - are students busing down for the game? That would be wonderful.

[Go...gate]

Princeton has a history of playing well at night--last year against Penn was the exception. Its nice to give the young men from both teams the chance to appear on National TV.

Absolutely right. I think there will be a fair number of PU Alumni from the region who will make the trip, as well. A couple of friends from the PU classes of '47, '52 and '53 will be in Tigertown.

[DJOM]

Would be nice to fill the stadium with fans. Most of the student body will probably be studying though.

[Go...gate]

Hoagie Haven/George's Roasters & Ribs gearing up for a big night, though.

[DJOM]

It would be nice. It is National TV.

[TheValleyRaider]

Hoagie Haven/George's Roasters & Ribs gearing up for a big night, though.

They should be, at least xnodx xnodx xnodx

[TheValleyRaider]

We're approximately 1 1/2 hours away from kickoff at Princeton Stadium in Princeton, NJ

Colgate Raiders, 5-0
at
Princeton Tigers, 1-2

Last Time Out
Colgate - W 45-23 vs Cornell
Princeton - L 38-0 vs Columbia

All-Time Series: Princeton 26-23-1
Streak: Colgate, 1 Win
Last Meeting: Colgate 27-24 in Hamilton

Coaches
Colgate - Dick Biddle, 14th Season, 109-49
Princeton - Roger Hughes, 10th Season, 44-48

Media Links from GoColgateRaiders.com:

Audio from TeamLine:
http://www.teamline.cc/teampage?teamcode=2007

Live Stats from Princeton:
http://www.goprincetontigers.com/liveStats/liveStats.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10600

Next Week
Colgate at Georgetown
Princeton at Brown

Let's Go 'Gate!

[Go...gate]

They should be, at least xnodx xnodx xnodx

Oh, yeah. That place is an institution around here.

[TheValleyRaider]

In case you had not yet heard, tonight's game is being televised by ESPNU :)

This does mean it will not be on ESPN360, if that's more to your channel options, but certainly the game will be available to a wider audience

Couple of small changes to the Lineup for tonight. Nate Eachus is officially listed as the starter for tonight with Jordan McCord as the backup. We'll see if they share carries like last week. Andy Heagle takes over both the placekicking and punting duties tonight. Evan Colbourne, the placekicker, was hurt in Saturday's game against Cornell, and it appears Evan Goldszak, who had been the punter, has also been supplanted

Nate Eachus is currently 25th on the school's all-time rushing list with exactly 1,200 yards. He needs 42 yards to reach 24th
The Raiders are currently on a 14 game regular season winning streak, dating back to last year

I won't be able to update the game tonight, as I'll be watching it with some friends (spreading the gospel of Colgate and FCS Football ;)). Given it's being nationally televised, I'd wager a few of you around here can pick up the slack :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Prediction for this game

No. 23 Colgate 42, Princeton 0

That's the one you'll see tomorrow in my picks. xthumbsupx

[DJOM]

Princeton shocks the nation on National TV with upset. You heard it here first. Not that I am prejudiced about the outcome.

[mlbowl]

Is it just me... or is there like 12 people at this game???

[Pard4Life]

I am at the game... as many Colgate fans as Princeton seemingly. Chilly, but perfect weather overall! Tigers failed twice in the red zone; stopped on fourth and blocked FG. Some Sullivan miscues but Tigers have had some big plays. Gate D stiffening and only a matter of time before O scores. Bad punt Gate ball on C43.

[LawDutch]

So far a pretty even matchup, I would even say Princeton has outplayed Colgate at this point. But the Raiders D is starting to sink its teeth in.

[ToTheLeft]

Is it just me... or is there like 12 people at this game???

That's what I thought... pretty sad considering the weather. Oh well, glad to be able to watch a team I haven't got to check this year...

[mlbowl]

Oh well, glad to be able to watch a team I haven't got to check this year...

True that...the commentators seem pretty good too...

[DJOM]

End of 1st Quarter 0-0 Princeton missed two offensive opportunities.

[Pard4Life]

I am encouraged that there is an older Lafayette fan here, obviously scouting too.

[Pard4Life]

That's what I thought... pretty sad considering the weather. Oh well, glad to be able to watch a team I haven't got to check this year...

Eh I'd say 7000.

[LawDutch]

Does Sullivan usually throw this much?

[Pard4Life]

Gate stickig with same plays.. shotgun, qb delay or tb handoff inside, out pattern, or deep middle of field... it's how they beat the pards last year, a little predictable and tigers step up when need be.

[Pard4Life]

Does Sullivan usually throw this much?

Gate is pretty balanced... but we are seeing him more than usual and not as much as Eachus as I'd thought.

[Pard4Life]

Perfect pass to the Gate D. Ugh. Who was that too?

[Pard4Life]

Game over. TD Gate, 30 yard pass on fourth and 7ish to the 1. Terrible D, few WRs open, 80 had a five yard cushion... Much like pards pass D vs liberty ugh.

[Franks Tanks]

I am encouraged that there is an older Lafayette fan here, obviously scouting too.

Its probably Carney2 "yell hey Carney2" I bet he will look!

[Pard4Life]

Geeeeez... Princeton is killing themsleves not taking advantage of Gate mistakes. Second blocked FG because idiot 99 doesn't know you have to arch the ball and a long pass out of the endzone before that... all under a minute to go. Now half.

Gate fired up, look for a blowout as tigers likely tire. Columbia scored 17 in the 4th last week.

[Pard4Life]

Its probably Carney2 "yell hey Carney2" I bet he will look!

No this guy actually smiles and seems like a happy person.

[LawDutch]

7-0 'gate at the half.

Princeton hanging in there, had a few chances to score, but a couple blocked field goals keep the donut on the board. I was expecting a blowout by Colgate, but Princeton has outplayed them so far.

[DJOM]

7 0 Colgate at half Princeton needs to start capitalizing on offense.

[Pard4Life]

Tigers driving

IMG_0423.JPG

[Pard4Life]

Went for it on fourth and threeish, fumbled and pocket collapsed at the C30, Gate rips off 10 yard run next play. Tigers just not mature enough to execute against stronger experienced team.

[Pard4Life]

Huge Tiger stuff on third and long, pint almost fumbled on snap. Gate line coach blew a few arteries on the sideline "rip thier as$es!" ten yard tiger gain on first to the 50.

[carney2]

Its probably Carney2 "yell hey Carney2" I bet he will look!


No this guy actually smiles and seems like a happy person.

What, are you guys members of my wife's family? I have become everyone's favorite punching bag. It's a good thing that I don't have any self esteem problems. My wife says I'm not allowed to have any.

[Pard4Life]

Tigers stuffed on c35 on fourth, easy pass in flat, RB flattened. Telegraphed.

[DJOM]

Princeton Defense controlling. Offense has to pick it up.

[DFW HOYA]

In basketball, Georgetown runs the Princeton offense.

Looks like Princeton is running the Georgetown football offense.

[DJOM]

End of 3rd 7 0 Colgate Princeton defense playing incredible game. Offense not so much so.

[Pard4Life]

Bad bad gate penalties negates drive; turnover on downs at C34. Anyone see Gate weaknesses?

[Pard4Life]

In basketball, Georgetown runs the Princeton offense.

Looks like Princeton is running the Georgetown football offense.

Ha it's not that bad, they can move the ball and play D.

[Pard4Life]

Oooooo 26 yard pass to the P40, gate can't tackle!

[Pard4Life]

Another big tiger play run to the 23!

[MR. CHICKEN]

[QUOTE=Pard4Life;1429242]Bad bad gate penalties negates drive; turnover on downs at C34. Anyone see Gate weaknesses?QUOTE]

YES...DEY'RE LOOKIN' AHEAD....TA GEORGETOWN...........xnodx........BRAWK!!

[MR. CHICKEN]

TD PRINCETON.....7-UP.......AWK!

[Pard4Life]

TD Tiger 19 wide open streaking at goalline!

[MR. CHICKEN]

7.5 Q's WHIFF OUTTAH SCORE.....AN' 'GATE.....LOSES DUH RECIEVER....IN DUH HOLY LAND...xsmhx...AWK!

[DJOM]

Finally! Princeton scores 7- 7

[carney2]

Looks like LFN may have been right: the Patriot League is a two team race. It also looks like 'gate may not be one of the two. They are being handled by a very bad team.

[carney2]

Time remaining?

Which team has a legitimate kicker?

[Pard4Life]

Some psycho gate fans here; love it! Eachus in a groove; some weird personal foul penalties...

[Pard4Life]

8 minutes to go, eachus in command

[Pard4Life]

Tiger kicker can't elevate and gate hasn't kicked once even in close range

[Pard4Life]

Psycho Gate fans can be heard screaming at refs in cavernous stadium BIG fourth here

[carney2]

Time of possession is just about even, but 1st downs and total yardage are Princeton.

[Pard4Life]

First of course ps iPhone sucks!!!

[Pard4Life]

Eachus stuffed missed blocks

[Pard4Life]

Ball at p30 426 to play thir and ten

[Pard4Life]

Oh man! Tiger ball to on downs; Sullivan takig too long and tiger pressure collapsing pocket

[MR. CHICKEN]

'GATE SQWANDERS UH 'NOTHERAH CHANCE TA WIN IT........AH'M FEELIN' OT.....DOODLE-DOO!!

[carney2]

Jeez! They're choking on a freakin' cupcake.

[Pard4Life]

Ha ball hits Gate 23 in the chest!! Almost INT

[Henny]

One of the wackiest games in terms penalties, kicking games etc.. Iv'e seen.

I was looking forward to seeing 'gate play and I have to say I'm a little dissapointed.

[Pard4Life]

Hope not Mr. C it's getting chilly here

[Pard4Life]

Damn 9 open midfield qb didn't see, sacked. Tigers punting 3 to play

[MR. CHICKEN]

TIGER QB DROPPED LIKE UH BAG O' DIRT..........AWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

One of the wackiest games in terms penalties, kicking games etc.. Iv'e seen.

I was looking forward to seeing 'gate play and I have to say I'm a little dissapointed.


#22 IN DUH POLL...xconfusedxxconfusedx.........AWK!!

[Pard4Life]

Wow 50 yard punt ball at C23

[MR. CHICKEN]

C'MON 'GATE LADS......ONLY NEED 3....xnodx....AWK!

TICK...TICK...TICK

[Pard4Life]

#22 IN DUH POLL...xconfusedxxconfusedx.........AWK!!

Yeah good point win or lose I'm booting them from mine

[carney2]

In case I don't get a chance later, P4L, good job. You've opened up a whole new career prospect.

[MR. CHICKEN]

GROUNDIN'..ON 'GATE QB.......xsmhx......AWK!

[Pard4Life]

80 makes Tyree like catch at 50, grounding on Ate next down! 119 to play ball at P45

[MR. CHICKEN]

RE-SET DUH CLOCK....DOY!!

[Pard4Life]

Gate psychos are really going nuts. 2nd and 22

[Pard4Life]

Batted down downfield third

[MR. CHICKEN]

TIGER PIGGY!

[Pard4Life]

Tiger ball after punt 109 to go P23. Gate had nobody open.

[Pard4Life]

Yeeah ot it is, and I wanted to catch the sox ha!

[MR. CHICKEN]

WOW...UH THRILLAH IN......NEW JOISEY!!

MUS' BE DUH PSEUDO DELAWARE HELMETS........xlolx.......AWK!!

[carney2]

Sox-Angels 0-0, top 2.

[Henny]

OT and neither team has a kicking game..............

[DJOM]

We are in overtime.

[aceinthehole]

WOW...UH THRILLAH IN......NEW JOISEY!!

U-G-L-Y

#23 Colgate (5-0) is a 20+ favorite vs. Princeton (1-2), yet they are tied 7-7 goin to OT? xconfusedx

[MR. CHICKEN]

COLGATE WINS TOSS....DEFENSE.............AWK!

[Pard4Life]

Gayte on D first

[MR. CHICKEN]

U-G-L-Y

#23 Colgate (5-0) is a 20+ favorite vs. Princeton (1-2), yet they are tied 7-7 goin to OT? xconfusedx


OKAY....UGLY THRILLAH!

[Pard4Life]

Missed tackle again

[carney2]

Eachus will be the difference here. Doesn't matter for me. That thud you heard was me jumping off the 'gate bandwagon.

[Pard4Life]

Third n 8

[Henny]

Oh my

[MR. CHICKEN]

ANDY KERR...MAKES DUH GRAB.....FO' 6...PAT GOOD!

[ngineer]

This is stunning. Just got home from Philly and I see this debacle! Princeton is not very good. One very good running QB, who can't pass. Amazing...AnyGivenThursday....xrolleyesx

[Pard4Life]

TD same play as other TD only reverse angle

[DJOM]

PRINCETON SCORES....14-7

[MR. CHICKEN]

Oh my

YES HENNY...AN' AH CHOSE 'GATE IN DUH HENS ROCK POOL......DAD-GUM-IT!!

[ngineer]

YES HENNY...AN' AH CHOSE 'GATE IN DUH HENS ROCK POOL......DAD-GUM-IT!!

By the way Mr. C...The "psuedo Hen" helmet originated in Princeton....xreadx

[ngineer]

What channel are you watching this game on??

[carney2]

What channel are you watching this game on??

ESPN U I don't get it so I am totally dependent on P4L.

[carney2]

ESPN says 'gate 1st and goal @ Princeton 2.

[MR. CHICKEN]

By the way Mr. C...The "psuedo Hen" helmet originated in Princeton....xreadx

YEAH...AH KNOW!

[ngineer]

ESPN U I don't get it so I am totally dependent on P4L.

Same here...:(

[MR. CHICKEN]

OT...PHASE 2.....................BRAWK!!

[Pard4Life]

Nuts crowd is into it! Smells like rain ugh

[DJOM]

Gate scores 14-14 Gate gets ball for 2nd OT

[Henny]

We are 2nd generation winged helmet. Davey Nelson played for Fritz Crisler.

[Pard4Life]

They just fed eachus and Sullivan keeper delay.

[ngineer]

Nuts crowd is into it! Smells like rain ugh

Is P4L at the game or watching on ESPNU?? Maybe his house is humid???

[carney2]

Is P4L at the game or watching on ESPNU?? Maybe his house is humid???

At the game. Giving us updates on his phone.

[MR. CHICKEN]

AH'M....SNIFFIN' UPSET....UH HUH...UH HUH........xnodx......AWK!!

[Pard4Life]

Sullivan caries for 4 on second, third n 3

[Pard4Life]

Fourth n inches!!!

[Pard4Life]

Did he?!? Yes barely

[Henny]

first down 'gate on the 15

[MR. CHICKEN]

TIGERS POINT DIS WAY....'GATE POINTS DAT WAY...FIRST DOWN!!

[Pard4Life]

Eachus for five at 10

[Pard4Life]

Third n inches

[MR. CHICKEN]

MAH PALMS ARE SWEATY.......MAH MOUSE IS WET........AH FEEL LIKE BIDDLE'S UNDERAH PANTIES!

[Pard4Life]

Eachus first at 5

[Pard4Life]

Feels like McCourt out there

[Pard4Life]

Boooo TD who else!?

[MR. CHICKEN]

TD 'GATE!!...21-14.........BALL'S IN YO' COURT.....TIGERS!

[ngineer]

This is really helping P4L's post count....;)

[carney2]

My gut tells me you can start for the exit, P4L.

[Pard4Life]

Gate smells blood third n 9

[ngineer]

TD 'GATE!!...21-14.........BALL'S IN YO' COURT.....TIGERS!

Don't confuse 'em with basketball or tennis. Need all the help they can get.

[Pard4Life]

Last play coming up TO tigers, tigers incomplete on same play as td route

[Pard4Life]

Over no

[carney2]

Over no

Huh?

[ngineer]

Over no

Huh?xconfusedx

[DFW HOYA]

Ugh. That set PL-Ivy football back a few years.

That may be last ESPN broadcast for these leagues for years to come after that one.

[carney2]

FINAL: 'gate 21, Tabbies 14.

[Pard4Life]

Gate partying like they won a title.... Get real!! Lucky!

Ok I'm outta here, Pards can take 'em!

[Henny]

Princeton still has the best stadium in FCS! wheather they want to use it or not

[carney2]

Thanks, P4L.

[Shellin]

A win is a win, but Colgate definitely drops out of my top 25 after that.

[MR. CHICKEN]

WHEW!!....WIN # 1 IN DUH HENS ROCK...EVEN-UP POOL!!

THANX FO' SHOWIN' UP BIG P.......THANKY ESPNU...FO' DUH ENTERTAINMENT.....20T....THRILLERAH!

[Ivytalk]

FINAL: 'gate 21, Tabbies 14.

Good!xthumbsupx

[aceinthehole]

Ugh. That set PL-Ivy football back a few years.

That may be last ESPN broadcast for these leagues for years to come after that one.

Agreed!

Was that really the #23 team in FCS out there? xconfusedx

[Pard4Life]

Huh?

I should have said Game over... Noo! Qb got flushed and 19 bobbled ball

gate pumped and chanting get real!!

[McNeese75]

A win is a win, but Colgate definitely drops out of my top 25 after that.

I've had them in my top 25 since week one but I am rethinking this as well.

[ngineer]

Win is a win. If you can win, even when stinking up the joint, then you're good. 'gate barely beat the Hoyas the year they went to FCS Final. I think despite what they say, the 'gaters took the Tigers lightly after their anemic efforts the previous two weeks.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Good!xthumbsupx


ONE MAN'S FLOOR......IVY MAN'S CEILIN'.....xrotatehx....DOODLE-DOO11

[colgate13]

A win, on the road, on four days rest, against a team that always plays us tough...

I'll take it! Plus, this is a nice kick in the pants for the team to play the rest of the PL. Practice will be hard next week!

Go 'Gate!

[Ivytalk]

A win, on the road, on four days rest, against a team that always plays us tough...

I'll take it! Plus, this is a nice kick in the pants for the team to play the rest of the PL. Practice will be hard next week!

Go 'Gate!

HEY 13!!! WHERE YA BEEN, BUDDY??xbowxxbowxxthumbsupxxthumbsupxxrotatehxxrot atehxxnodx

[MR. CHICKEN]

CAIN'T DROP DUH 'GATE IN DUH POLL.....TRUE MARK O' GOODNESS.....WINNIN' DUH CLOSE ONES.......CAIN'T COME OUTTAH DUH SHOOT...LIKE IT'S DUH SUPER-BOWL....EVERAH WEEK.......ON DUH ROAD...W......AH'M STILL RESPECTIN'....DUH 'GATE LADS........GOOD THURSDAY NIGHT YA'LL....xnodx....BRAWK/OBAMA/BIDEN!!!

[Ivytalk]

I'll still rank 'em!xnodx

[DJOM]

Had a chance to take this one and we let it slip away. Defense controlled former #1 offense in FCS.

[RichH2]

Got to assume Gate came in flat and Tigers played much better than they have yet this year.
Even so , while only a glimpse of Gate, they are not as awesome as I thought. Eacus and McCord quite good . Can see why they get the yards. Sullivan a smart headsy qb runs the O superbly. Not very fast but a smart runner. More of a thrower than a passer. Front 7 on D very tough, dbs somewhat shaky. OLseemed out of sorts. Tigers DEs very good and disrupted Gate's OL all nite.
BUT as with good teams they found a way to win on a night they weren't playing well. Kudos.

[Pard4Life]

No problem guys, it's only a 25 minute ride away.

Princeton pressured very nicely by stacking guys in the box and blitzing from different angles while covering downfield. Colgate missed assignments and the Tigers spied Sullivan and the backs very well. Agreed the DBs are questionable, too much cushion in zone and the tigers were a bit fast. I can see the Pardsbgiving them trouble if Curley doesn't through and wobbling ducks. Bad penalties also played a role. This was very dirty in the trenches btw. This was an exciting game in person, so I don't know what you TV viewers are saying!

[PeacockRaider]

Just got back from the game. This thread is pretty comical. An ugly win tonight from 'gate, but a win is a win. No kicker so every down inside the 35 was 4 down territory. If people want to take a 6-0 team out of the top 25, oh well, PL is a one bid league anyway. P4L we'll see ya in Easton...you guys should have no trouble at all with 'gate, you guys have had our number the past 15 years....oh and I may have been one of the psycho fans, when penalties are about 10-2 in favor of the home team you tend to get upset... the pass interference on Simonds seemed like a horrible call live, im going to watch the replay now..

Take nothing away from Princeton, they came to play and their defense really looked good tonight.

[TheValleyRaider]

No doubt, we didn't look good tonight. But, we still won. It's disappointing to put in such a poor effort on our one shot at the big time (well, relative big time, at least), but, we still won

Particularly unimpressed with the officiating, although that could also be the fact that ESPN couldn't be bothered to show replays of half the holding calls. Still not quite sure what all those personal foul calls at the end of the game were about, either

Sullivan looked shaky, and Princeton's defense had a strong outing. Still, I saw the same kind of grit that won big games down the stretch in the PL last season, so I'm hardly going to write anything off. 10 days off, then Georgetown. I have a feeling they will be plenty focused in the intervening period...

[PeacockRaider]

[. Still, I saw the same kind of grit that won big games down the stretch in the PL last season, so I'm hardly going to write anything off. 10 days off, then Georgetown. I have a feeling they will be plenty focused in the intervening
period...[/QUOTE]

Im with you TVR, I was speaking tongue in cheek, as everyone apprears to have seen our weaknesses now xrolleyesx

[carney2]

A win is a win, but Colgate definitely drops out of my top 25 after that.

Colgate has been questionable all along, tiptoeing through a very soft schedule. They are, more and more, looking like a rank team rather than a ranked team. Of the three Patriot League contenders, I'm thinking they're number three right now.

[65 Pard]

Raiders may have won, but looked to me like they were out coached and outplayed by a determined bunch of Tigers....
Our coaches will be happy with the game films.
Reverse the Curse!

[Franks Tanks]

Just got back from the game. This thread is pretty comical. An ugly win tonight from 'gate, but a win is a win. No kicker so every down inside the 35 was 4 down territory. If people want to take a 6-0 team out of the top 25, oh well, PL is a one bid league anyway. P4L we'll see ya in Easton...you guys should have no trouble at all with 'gate, you guys have had our number the past 15 years....oh and I may have been one of the psycho fans, when penalties are about 10-2 in favor of the home team you tend to get upset... the pass interference on Simonds seemed like a horrible call live, im going to watch the replay now..

Take nothing away from Princeton, they came to play and their defense really looked good tonight.

Some people may be counting out Gate but they are dead wrong. The Raiders are still the team to beat in the PL-- defending champs who havent lost a game yet in 09. It wasnt pretty but good teams find a way to win when they are playing poorly

[KAUMASS]

I caught the 4th quarter..obviously 'Gate wasn't clicking and things were not going there way...Ranked or not, good teams find a way to win, which 'Gate did. Congrats on the gutty performance in ot to get the w...If the offense played like they did in OT, I don't think the game should have been that close. Anyways...good luck the rest of the year..

[ngineer]

Some people may be counting out Gate but they are dead wrong. The Raiders are still the team to beat in the PL-- defending champs who havent lost a game yet in 09. It wasnt pretty but good teams find a way to win when they are playing poorly

What I said. You don't drop a team from the polls because of an ugly win. In a season, everyone, even the top teams have a game or two where they are 'off their sauce' ; but can still get the 'W'. This is one for 'gate, and considering the short week, another consideration.

[Franks Tanks]

[/B]

What I said. You don't drop a team from the polls because of an ugly win. In a season, everyone, even the top teams have a game or two where they are 'off their sauce' ; but can still get the 'W'. This is one for 'gate, and considering the short week, another consideration.

Agree 100%.

One thing I was a bit surpised by is the Gate o-line. Colgate consistently has an excellent o-line-- they arent always the biggest guys but usually very athletic and smart. They looked pretty average last night, and dont seem to have the size and athleticism I am used to from a Colgate O-line. Again it may just have been am off night, and the like can come together and dominate like in the past-- we shall see.

[Fordham]

There's the old adage that every year you'll play two games much, much worse than you really are, 2 games way above your head and the rest pretty much at the level you're supposed to.

I have no problem with 'Gate struggling in this one since it's easy to chalk it up to one of those games where they did everything to lose but somehow had enough character to squeak out the win. 6 - 0 is 6 - 0. Very impressive start and imo, as defending champs, they are still the team to beat in the PL until proven otherwise.

Shaping up to be a very special season up in Hamilton.

[colorless raider]

It was a W. 'Nuff said. Rest up and coach em up.

[bluehenbillk]

First time I saw Colgate last night, admittedly was flipping around & saw bits & pieces of the game but I have to say I came away unimpressed with Colgate.

Can't see how'd they'd be close to most of the CAA mid-to-upper echelon.

[Pard94]

Sometimes the best team has to dodge a few bullets during the course of the year. It's what good teams do. That being said, I am encouraged because I think this game will lend some very interesting tactics to Lafayette. If last night was any indicator at all I think the Leopards match up very well against Gate this year. We have a bruising defense and an offense that, thus far, is proving to be comparable to the kind of attack Colgate can mount. Should be interesting!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate is still the odds on favorite right now based on history. Holy Cross imo would be the best representative in the playoffs. The Crusaders would provide the PL with a team at least capable of making things interesting. Lafayette should be in the hunt until the end as well. Either way as a whole the PL stinks and really has no business being in the playoffs at this point. Lafayette and Colgate would both get lit up. The only benefit of Colgate or Lafayette going is maybe it would force the PL's hand even more when it comes to scholarships.

[MR. CHICKEN]

There's the old adage that every year you'll play two games much, much worse than you really are, 2 games way above your head and the rest pretty much at the level you're supposed to.
I have no problem with 'Gate struggling in this one since it's easy to chalk it up to one of those games where they did everything to lose but somehow had enough character to squeak out the win. 6 - 0 is 6 - 0. Very impressive start and imo, as defending champs, they are still the team to beat in the PL until proven otherwise.

Shaping up to be a very special season up in Hamilton.

'ZACTLY...........xnodx.......BRAWK!!

[RichH2]

As princeton showed if you can effectively put a spy on Sullivan you can disrupt Gate O. He is not a good enuf passer to carry a pass 1st scheme. Gate needs to have rb, which did OK, and Sullivan's options to move with occasional passes. Shut off qb runs, O grinds to a crawl. Of course you need to have a DL to control inside. PU's DEs are very impressive

[Pard94]

Colgate is still the odds on favorite right now based on history. Holy Cross imo would be the best representative in the playoffs and would provide with the PL with a team at least capable of making things interesting. Lafayette should be in the hunt until the end as well. Either way as a whole the PL stinks and really has no business being in the playoffs at this point. Lafayette and Colgate would both get lit up. The only benefit of Colgate or Lafayette going is maybe it would force the PL's hand even more when it comes to scholarships.

Wow...your bitterness is ridiculously transparent. Lehigh has an off year and the Patriot League "stinks". I would suggest that the top three in the PL are playing as well as they have in recent memory. Problem for you is Lehigh is in the bottom three and the bottom three, as you say, stink. Just becuase Villanova "lit up" a crappy Lehigh team doesn't atutomatically translate into Colgate, HC or Lafayette getting "lit up" in the post season. It's important for you to remember that Lehigh is no longer considered PL elite. You must temper your remarks as a program that is looking up at mediocrity right now. Look at it is a learning experience TU Owl. Perhaps next year you guys won't scream you're 9-2 predictions from the mountain tops at least until you figure out if you're any good at all. Here's what you do...fire Coen, bring some other victim in to run your program, practice up real hard and maybe you guys will be a .500 club again...in two years. Have a nice Saturday struglling against your fellow cellar dweller. xthumbsupx

[Pards Rule]

Damn 94, you PASTED him...I can see you as an offensive line coach on the hill!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Princeton has an uncanny knack of making teams look worse than they are. It's because they have a really well schemed defense with (certainly in this case) a great defensive gameplan. Princeton played Princeton football, and came very close to coming away with the win. It was their anemic offense that betrayed them last night - over and over.

I'll be honest, when Princeton scored first in the OT I thought that it was over. That's when Colgate really, IMO, came out like champions to get that game-tying score - and oh-by-the-way got the critical extra point with their backup kicker.

I thought the Thursday game really threw Colgate out of rhythm, too. This is a team, don't forget, that hadn't ever played a Thursday game.

In any event, Colgate won the game. Not on their best night. I still deserve a Top 25 ranking. And the game versus Holy Cross still looks like it could be the PL championship game.

[danefan]

Wow...your bitterness is ridiculously transparent. Lehigh has an off year and the Patriot League "stinks". I would suggest that the top three in the PL are playing as well as they have in recent memory. Problem for you is Lehigh is in the bottom three and the bottom three, as you say, stink. Just becuase Villanova "lit up" a crappy Lehigh team doesn't atutomatically translate into Colgate, HC or Lafayette getting "lit up" in the post season. It's important for you to remember that Lehigh is no longer considered PL elite. You must temper your remarks as a program that is looking up at mediocrity right now. Look at it is a learning experience TU Owl. Perhaps next year you guys won't scream you're 9-2 predictions from the mountain tops at least until you figure out if you're any good at all. Here's what you do...fire Coen, bring some other victim in to run your program, practice up real hard and maybe you guys will be a .500 club again...in two years. Have a nice Saturday struglling against your fellow cellar dweller. xthumbsupx

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.

[Franks Tanks]

Colgate is still the odds on favorite right now based on history. Holy Cross imo would be the best representative in the playoffs. The Crusaders would provide the PL with a team at least capable of making things interesting. Lafayette should be in the hunt until the end as well. Either way as a whole the PL stinks and really has no business being in the playoffs at this point. Lafayette and Colgate would both get lit up. The only benefit of Colgate or Lafayette going is maybe it would force the PL's hand even more when it comes to scholarships.

I disagree.

The PL can win a playoff game this year. The problem is that we continue to get matched up with the best team in the CAA. I understand why this happens, but its hard to beat one of the top 3 teams in the country.

If Cross can go undefeated and get matched up with a middle CAA team I think they can get a W.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wow...your bitterness is ridiculously transparent. Lehigh has an off year and the Patriot League "stinks".... bla bla bla. xthumbsupx


Damn 94, you PASTED him...I can see you as an offensive line coach on the hill!

If I'm you guys, I'd be lot more worried about Columbia than Colgate right now. The Lions not only pasted Princeton, they shut them out. Read into that what you will, but I think it's safe to say that this won't your momma's Lions out there this weekend.

[Pard4Life]

Colgate is still the odds on favorite right now based on history. Holy Cross imo would be the best representative in the playoffs. The Crusaders would provide the PL with a team at least capable of making things interesting. Lafayette should be in the hunt until the end as well. Either way as a whole the PL stinks and really has no business being in the playoffs at this point. Lafayette and Colgate would both get lit up. The only benefit of Colgate or Lafayette going is maybe it would force the PL's hand even more when it comes to scholarships.

Pards would not get lit up... we have a stronger team than our title years when we played CLOSE and TOUGH vs the defnding champs, to be champs, and a semi finalist. Appy would not have their dynasty if Archie Fisher gets the INT call and the Pards convert one FG into a TD.

HC would be the "sexy" choice but if you face a fast secondary and pressure Randolph, HC is smoked.

Colgate would lose by 30 again to Villanova or the CAA champ. Let's face it it will be Lafayette/Colgate at Villanova this year... HC at UMass.

[Pard94]

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.

In case you hadn't notice neither Holy Cross nor Lafayette played last night. That's like saying Northeastern is really going to hold back those CAA teams. And oh by the way...Colgate won.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.

Last I checked, Colgate won a game on national television. Last I checked, Albany, CCSU and Liberty did not beat Colgate. Last I checked, Colgate's GPI was greater than the GPI of all three schools. And last I checked, it would be your SUBJECTIVE argument that any of the"non-AQ three" are better than Colgate.

23T. Colgate (24.50)
32. Liberty (28.38)
43. Central Conn (38.13)
49. Albany NY (41.63)

[Pard4Life]

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.

Right, because you know how the season will unfold the eve of day one and it's fair to change the rules mid-season...

[danefan]

Last I checked, Colgate won a game on national television. Last I checked, Albany, CCSU and Liberty did not beat Colgate. Last I checked, Colgate's GPI was greater than the GPI of all three schools. And last I checked, it would be your SUBJECTIVE argument that any of the"non-AQ three" are better than Colgate.

23T. Colgate (24.50)
32. Liberty (28.38)
43. Central Conn (38.13)
49. Albany NY (41.63)

Please continue to cite the GPI as fact. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

And it wouldn't be my subject argument. It could be an objective argument based on common results and actually watching teams play.

The fact of the matter is LFN, you're the biggest PL homer in the world and you cannot see outside the realm of 2003.

And notice, I didn't say it was the only valid argument. I just said it was A valid argument.

[Pard94]

If I'm you guys, I'd be lot more worried about Columbia than Colgate right now. The Lions not only pasted Princeton, they shut them out. Read into that what you will, but I think it's safe to say that this won't your momma's Lions out there this weekend.


At no point did I suggest we ought to take our eyes off any future opponents...especially when they are much improved. If Columbia was playing last night I would have commented on them. I was just taking time out of a slow Friday morning to point out that one of your more bitter supporters is sounding like a petulant child. Lehigh stinks therefore the whole league stinks. That makes sense.

Incidentally, by your logic "if I'm you guys" I'd be a lot more worried about your entire program than what we're worried about right now.

[danefan]

Right, because you know how the season will unfold the eve of day one and it's fair to change the rules mid-season...

I'm not advocating for it to happen. I'm just saying in hindsight, the PL has no reason to believe they deserve an AQ this year over the NEC or the Big South.

Please take your PL glasses off and look at the results and quality of play objectively. It won't kill you to realize that the top of the PL is no better than the NEC or Big South.

[aceinthehole]

Princeton has an uncanny knack of making teams look worse than they are. It's because they have a really well schemed defense with (certainly in this case) a great defensive gameplan. Princeton played Princeton football, and came very close to coming away with the win. It was their anemic offense that betrayed them last night - over and over.

I'll be honest, when Princeton scored first in the OT I thought that it was over. That's when Colgate really, IMO, came out like champions to get that game-tying score - and oh-by-the-way got the critical extra point with their backup kicker.

I thought the Thursday game really threw Colgate out of rhythm, too. This is a team, don't forget, that hadn't ever played a Thursday game.

In any event, Colgate won the game. Not on their best night. I still deserve a Top 25 ranking. And the game versus Holy Cross still looks like it could be the PL championship game.

1) Funny, last week Columbia made Princeton look very, very bad. Princeton had zero red-zone offense, period. That is not a good Ivy club.

2) Why does Colgate "deserve" a top-25 ranking? xrolleyesx
- Is it their undefeated record against a weak schedule (opponents are now just 8-15)?
- Is it the fact that Colgate needed 2 OTs to beat a team that has just 2 offensive TDs in their first 3 games?
- Is it the fact that Colgate could manage just 7 points in regulation vs. the Tigers who game up 38 points to both The Citadel and Columbia?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Wow...your bitterness is ridiculously transparent. Lehigh has an off year and the Patriot League "stinks". I would suggest that the top three in the PL are playing as well as they have in recent memory. Problem for you is Lehigh is in the bottom three and the bottom three, as you say, stink. Just becuase Villanova "lit up" a crappy Lehigh team doesn't atutomatically translate into Colgate, HC or Lafayette getting "lit up" in the post season. It's important for you to remember that Lehigh is no longer considered PL elite. You must temper your remarks as a program that is looking up at mediocrity right now. Look at it is a learning experience TU Owl. Perhaps next year you guys won't scream you're 9-2 predictions from the mountain tops at least until you figure out if you're any good at all. Here's what you do...fire Coen, bring some other victim in to run your program, practice up real hard and maybe you guys will be a .500 club again...in two years. Have a nice Saturday struglling against your fellow cellar dweller. xthumbsupx

You failure to accept that the league has regressed is amazing to me. This has nothing to do with Lehigh, they do stink but they stunk last year and managed to go 4-2 in the league. The league is no where near as good as the league was in the late 90's early 2000's. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the league has not won a playoff game since 2003. The average playoff score has been 45-24 since 2005. You can't dispute the fact the league has been struggling as of late against the better scholarship programs. Like i said i believe Holy Cross is the one team that can give the PL a solid rep in the playoff. I just don't see Colgate or Lafayette having the athletes or offense to match what will be the CAA champ most likely.

[Pard94]

Damn 94, you PASTED him...I can see you as an offensive line coach on the hill!

Thanks. I hate that "take my ball and go home" crap. Pack it in on your team if you want but don't disparage the rest of the league.

[Pard4Life]

Colgate has been questionable all along, tiptoeing through a very soft schedule. They are, more and more, looking like a rank team rather than a ranked team. Of the three Patriot League contenders, I'm thinking they're number three right now.

I don't think so carney; this is colgates league until we or HC prove otherwise. Given our history, they have the clear advantage heading into our game, though blown ref INT calls and non-call late hits surely help.

[Franks Tanks]

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.


Dane-- if you must play that game then look at Holy Cross. Cross destroyed Sacred Heart and CCSU was losing the entire game-- is CCSU terrible.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please continue to cite the GPI as fact. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

And it wouldn't be my subject argument. It could be an objective argument based on common results and actually watching teams play.

xrolleyesx Hmm, what are we going to consider - my subjective opinion, your subjective opinion... or the GPI, which is the closest thing FCS has to an objective index? Eight polls and formulas, compiling hundreds of opinions...

And - last I checked - the "non-AQ three" are not in the subjective Top 25s, yet Colgate is. And don't give me that I'm a biased voter: I have Liberty in my Top 25... behind Colgate.

[danefan]

Dane-- if you must play that game then look at Holy Cross. Cross destroyed Sacred Heart and CCSU was losing the entire game-- is CCSU terrible.


I'll give you Holy Cross. They deserve a shot in the playoffs.

I don't get the love fest for Colgate though.

[Pard4Life]

You failure to accept that the league has regressed is amazing to me. This has nothing to do with Lehigh, they do stink but they stunk last year and managed to go 4-2 in the league. The league is no where near as good as the league was in the late 90's early 2000's. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the league has not won a playoff game since 2003. The average playoff score has been 45-24 since 2005. You can't dispute the fact the league has been struggling as of late against the better scholarship programs. Like i said i believe Holy Cross is the one team that can give the PL a solid rep in the playoff. I just don't see Colgate or Lafayette having the athletes or offense to match what will be the CAA champ most likely.

Well, we will certainly change your mind once we abuse your QB, whoever that will be, on November 21.

[danefan]

xrolleyesx Hmm, what are we going to consider - my subjective opinion, your subjective opinion... or the GPI, which is the closest thing FCS has to an objective index? Eight polls and formulas, compiling hundreds of opinions...

And - last I checked - the "non-AQ three" are not in the subjective Top 25s, yet Colgate is. And don't give me that I'm a biased voter: I have Liberty in my Top 25... behind Colgate.

How about considering what you've actually seen ON THE FIELD OF PLAY and comparing it other teams you've actually seen on the field?

Colgate struggled mightely with a horrendous Ivy league team last night.

That's objective evidence. I'm not spinning that any which way. It was plain for all to see.

[Pard94]

You failure to accept that the league has regressed is amazing to me. This has nothing to do with Lehigh, they do stink but they stunk last year and managed to go 4-2 in the league. The league is no where near as good as the league was in the late 90's early 2000's. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the league has not won a playoff game since 2003. The average playoff score has been 45-24 since 2005. You can't dispute the fact the league has been struggling as of late against the better scholarship programs. Like i said i believe Holy Cross is the one team that can give the PL a solid rep in the playoff. I just don't see Colgate or Lafayette having the athletes or offense to match what will be the CAA champ most likely.

The funny thing is I don't remeber you making any such comments when Lehigh is in the mix. Guess what...PL teams have always and will always struggle against the better scholarship programs. Do you know why? Becuase they are the "better scholarship programs". This is our lot in life until such time that PL administrators come to their senses. Sure you'll get the odd team that might win a play off game or more (Colgate). But that is predicated entirely on having a freak player who somehow slipped thourgh the FBS cracks to anchor your team. It happens once in a blue moon and we should all enjoy it when it does. In the mean time our goal should be winning the league and maybe winning a round or (god forbid) two rounds in the playoffs. Any loftier expectation (i.e. Coen saying his goal is a national championship) is delusional at best.

My main point, however remains, when your on the bottom looking up it is probably not the best time to criticize the league. It looks like you are blaming the league on your problems and it is marginalizing the excellent effforts by other teams. It's no different then the argument that took place on this board the other day when a Georgetown supporter seemed to blame the league, the AI index, global warming, etc. etc. for Georgetown's dismal performance thus far. Your intentions may be pure but your complaints ring awfuly hollow.

[aceinthehole]

For the record, I think any argument about the "worthiness" of the AQ is wrong. The AQ is about EQUAL ACCESS, not about how good/bad a conference is.

I do think its far to say, the odds of a PL at-large this year are slim, under the best sceneario.

If that game last night did not wake up voters regarding the strenght of the PL and Ivy, I don't know what will. That game could have just as easily have been 2 NEC teams. That is the realtive stregth of these leagues.

Here in the East, The CAA is on a different level. For the rest of the leagues (PL, Ivy, NEC, Big South) we might as well compare CAA games to I-A games. 9 out of 10 times, the CAA will have more athleticisim, speed, strenghth, depth, etc.

I know its going to hurt the pride of some PL and Ivy fans, but the fact is there is NO DIFFERENCE in the quality of football in the PL, Ivy, NEC, and Big South. If you don't think the NEC/Big South champ couldn't come in and win the PL or Ivy title in a given year, you have your head in the sand. Conversely, if you don't think the worst teams in the PL/Ivy are as bad as the cellear dwellers in the NEC/Big South, you have another thing coming.

[aceinthehole]

xrolleyesx Hmm, what are we going to consider - my subjective opinion, your subjective opinion... or the GPI, which is the closest thing FCS has to an objective index? Eight polls and formulas, compiling hundreds of opinions...
And - last I checked - the "non-AQ three" are not in the subjective Top 25s, yet Colgate is. And don't give me that I'm a biased voter: I have Liberty in my Top 25... behind Colgate.

Since when are a complilation of opinions, an objective index??????

[danefan]

For the record, I think any argument about the "worthiness" of the AQ is wrong. The AQ is about EQUAL ACCESS, not about how good/bad a conference is.

I do think its far to say, the odds of a PL at-large this year are slim, under the best sceneario.

If that game last night did not wake up voters regarding the strenght of the PL and Ivy, I don't know what will. That game could have just as easily have been 2 NEC teams. That is the realtive stregth of these leagues.

Here in the East, The CAA is on a different level. For the rest of the leagues (PL, Ivy, NEC, Big South) we might as well compare CAA games to I-A games. 9 out of 10 times, the CAA will have more athleticisim, speed, strenghth, depth, etc.

I know its going to hurt the pride of some PL and Ivy fans, but the fact is there is NO DIFFERENCE in the quality of football in the PL, Ivy, NEC, and Big South. If you don't think the NEC/Big South champ couldn't come in and win the PL or Ivy title in a given year, you have your head in the sand. Conversely, if you don't think the worst teams in the PL/Ivy are as bad as the cellear dwellers in the NEC/Big South, you have another thing coming.

I agree. And I will gladly retract my question of the PL AQ. In an effort to stir up the Colgate lovers, besides not considering at all the reason the NEC will thankfully be a playoff participant next year (equal access), I admittadely threw Holy Cross under the bus.

[Pard4Life]

1) Funny, last week Columbia made Princeton look very, very bad. Princeton had zero red-zone offense, period. That is not a good Ivy club.

2) Why does Colgate "deserve" a top-25 ranking? xrolleyesx
- Is it their undefeated record against a weak schedule (opponents are now just 8-15)?
- Is it the fact that Colgate needed 2 OTs to beat a team that has just 2 offensive TDs in their first 3 games?
- Is it the fact that Colgate could manage just 7 points in regulation vs. the Tigers who game up 38 points to both The Citadel and Columbia?

Colgate and Princeton have a very weird history where records don't matter. It's like 10-0 Lehigh just beating a weak Pards team 14-12 ten years ago and then winning in the playoffs. Hard to benchmark one game being representative of a team.

[Pards Rule]

Yeah, but that was Bill Russo's final game and it was a surprise announcement two days before the game.

[Franks Tanks]

Yeah, but that was Bill Russo's final game and it was a surprise announcement two days before the game.

My freshman year. D offered a heroic effort, but O struggled-- shame will couldnt send Bill out a winner!

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/genrel/auto_headshot/1461363.jpeg

[aceinthehole]

Colgate and Princeton have a very weird history where records don't matter. It's like 10-0 Lehigh just beating a weak Pards team 14-12 ten years ago and then winning in the playoffs. Hard to benchmark one game being representative of a team.

Ok, so basically you're saying they deserve to be ranked because of their undefeated record against a comparatively weak schedule (opponents are now just 8-15).

I'm willing to look at Colgate's complete resume, but you too also have to be objective and compare it to teams like Florida A&M (4-0), CCSU (3-1), Liberty (3-2), or Albany (3-2) who have stronger schedules.

Butler is 5-0, but no one really considers them a top-25 team. Why - weak schedule, right? Although Colgate's schedule is stronger than Butler, it's the same, vaild argument people are using to question Colgate's ranking.

[Pard94]

Colgate and Princeton have a very weird history where records don't matter. It's like 10-0 Lehigh just beating a weak Pards team 14-12 ten years ago and then winning in the playoffs. Hard to benchmark one game being representative of a team.

Please. Every team and every league has instances where the best teams play down to the level of a lesser opponent. Hence the name of this very board. Hell...Villanova was "caught" a little bit by freaking Penn. All it proves is that suprises can happen when a good team plays poorly and a poor team plays well. It means nothing more than certain teams don't always play football at the levels they are able.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please. Every team and every league has instances where the best teams play down to the level of a lesser opponent. Hence the name of this very board. Hell...Villanova was "caught" a little bit by freaking Penn. All it proves is that suprises can happen when a good team plays poorly and a poor team plays well. It means nothing more than certain teams don't always play football at the levels they are able.

And despite all this, Colgate won. They got a TD when they needed to in the first overtime and won the damned game.

Funny how none of these folks on here were talking about "dropping" Richmond when they "struggled" against a 1-3 VMI team.

[breezy]

[QUOTE] Here in the East, The CAA is on a different level. For the rest of the leagues (PL, Ivy, NEC, Big South) we might as well compare CAA games to I-A games. 9 out of 10 times, the CAA will have more athleticisim, speed, strenghth, depth, etc. [QUOTE]

************

That was quite evident in the Holy Cross - Northeastern game last Saturday. Northeastern presumably had more athleticism, speed, strength, and depth. Of course, Holy Cross jumped out to a 35-0 lead in the second quarter and led 42-7 after three quarters. Then, Northeastern managed to score two 4th quarter touchdowns after most of the HC starters had been pulled from the game.

************

I did not see the game last night since I do not get ESPNU, but every team in every league can have a stinko game where they look terrible and then come back the next week and beat a higher rated opponent. The bottom line is that Colgate won the game and is still undefeated. Often the mark of a good team is that it can find a way to win even when it does not play its best.

[Pards Rule]

My freshman year. D offered a heroic effort, but O struggled-- shame will couldnt send Bill out a winner!

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/genrel/auto_headshot/1461363.jpeg

I so recall that game on a very mild overcast day. The O was driving at the end for a winning FG but Armstrong (wtf ever happened to him?) was trying to ditch a pass out of bounds and the Lehigh guy intercepted it OVER the sideline as best as I could see. I was disappointed but I remember the Lehigh station announcers predicting scores like 42-10 and 37-6 (Lehigh) before the game. OMG that pic was in his first year (1981) of the Gameday magazines - they even used it way after he, um, expanded so much...

[DFW HOYA]

When Colgate struggles for a last minute win next week, then we can talk...

[Pard94]

When Colgate struggles for a last minute win next week, then we can talk...

xlolxxnodxxthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I so recall that game on a very mild overcast day. The O was driving at the end for a winning FG but Armstrong (wtf ever happened to him?) was trying to ditch a pass out of bounds and the Lehigh guy intercepted it OVER the sideline as best as I could see. I was disappointed but I remember the Lehigh station announcers predicting scores like 42-10 and 37-6 (Lehigh) before the game. OMG that pic was in his first year (1981) of the Gameday magazines - they even used it way after he, um, expanded so much...

Harry Armstrong is the coach for his alma mater, Riverside HS, which is right outside of Scranton.

That was a darn good Lehigh team that struggled at the end of the season. I have to believe they got too cocky after hanging half a hundred on just about everyone the first 7 games. Lafayette played a great game that day and really had a chance to win. Also as a side note Lehigh was 9-1 entering the game losing to Colgate. Lehigh got an at-large bid to the playoffs losing to Hofstra 27-15 in the first round.

[Pards Rule]

Thx Lehigh TU..Yeah I think he was moved from QB to WR (but second string?) the following season. How is he doing there? Does Russo still coach at Wyoming Seminary? Maybe those two play each other?

[Go...gate]

Attended the game with the parents of a Colgate player. Princeton was fired up. I kinda knew it would be close.

[Go...gate]

A win, on the road, on four days rest, against a team that always plays us tough...

I'll take it! Plus, this is a nice kick in the pants for the team to play the rest of the PL. Practice will be hard next week!

Go 'Gate!

Exactly....xnodx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Thx Lehigh TU..Yeah I think he was moved from QB to WR (but second string?) the following season. How is he doing there? Does Russo still coach at Wyoming Seminary? Maybe those two play each other?

It's been a mixed bag for him so far at Riverside. As a player he led Riverside to the 1997 Single "A" state final. As a coach, the Vikings were ranked #2 in the state last year before losing in the playoffs. However, he has really struggled to get guys to come out for a team that has historically been good. They only had 27 players last year and i believe only 23 this year. If you go to pennlive you can read about some of problems he's had relating to the kids.

I'm not sure about Russo.

[Go...gate]

Just got back from the game. This thread is pretty comical. An ugly win tonight from 'gate, but a win is a win. No kicker so every down inside the 35 was 4 down territory. If people want to take a 6-0 team out of the top 25, oh well, PL is a one bid league anyway. P4L we'll see ya in Easton...you guys should have no trouble at all with 'gate, you guys have had our number the past 15 years....oh and I may have been one of the psycho fans, when penalties are about 10-2 in favor of the home team you tend to get upset... the pass interference on Simonds seemed like a horrible call live, im going to watch the replay now..

Take nothing away from Princeton, they came to play and their defense really looked good tonight.

Count me in among the psycho fans. Refs were abysmal.

[Franks Tanks]

Thx Lehigh TU..Yeah I think he was moved from QB to WR (but second string?) the following season. How is he doing there? Does Russo still coach at Wyoming Seminary? Maybe those two play each other?

Russo left Seminary about 3 or 4 years ago. Wyo Seminary plays other prep schools like Blair Academy and Kiski prep-- they rarely play "regular" high schools in the area.

[Go...gate]

Perhaps his comments were laced with bitterness, but the fact of the matter is, Colgate laid an egg last night on National TV. That pretty much kills the Patriot league's chances at a an at-large and when you look at the teams that will not go to the playoffs this year from non-AQ leagues (Liberty, Central Conn/Albany), there is a valid objective argument to be made that the PL AQ perhaps should not have been granted this year.

xconfusedxxconfusedxxconfusedx

[Go...gate]

Russo left Seminary about 3 or 4 years ago. Wyo Seminary plays other prep schools like Blair Academy and Kiski prep-- they rarely play "regular" high schools in the area.

They play Hun, too and beat us this year. Wyoming seems like a pretty strong program.

[Go...gate]

You failure to accept that the league has regressed is amazing to me. This has nothing to do with Lehigh, they do stink but they stunk last year and managed to go 4-2 in the league. The league is no where near as good as the league was in the late 90's early 2000's. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the league has not won a playoff game since 2003. The average playoff score has been 45-24 since 2005. You can't dispute the fact the league has been struggling as of late against the better scholarship programs. Like i said i believe Holy Cross is the one team that can give the PL a solid rep in the playoff. I just don't see Colgate or Lafayette having the athletes or offense to match what will be the CAA champ most likely.

Regret that I agree. Moreover, the impression I got from speaking to one player's parents are that scholarships are not a lock by any means at Colgate. Colgate seems very comfortable with its present system, which has been in place for a while.

[Franks Tanks]

They play Hun, too and beat us this year. Wyoming seems like a pretty strong program.

Ya they are. Lafayette has a special scholarship by the Kirby family where kids are sent to Wyo Sem for free to improve their grades and skills and then come to Lafayette to play ball. Guys like Mo White and Frank Baur took advantage of this program.

Of course their is no guarantee they will attend Lafayette as former Colgate QB Tom McCune attended Sem under the same arrangment but of course didn't come to Lafayette.

[RichH2]

Part of the dichotomy of PL merit aid issue ,currently successful programs under less pressure to support merit aid. While I believe it is necessary,by no stretch will it magically make the PL an immediate threat to the CAA. Initially, it will ,at best, even the playing field with the IL, NEC . Depending on each school's $$ commitment would anticipate PL to compete more evenly with CAA and IL and do better on Natl level.
I would hope that our schools would not became as parochial as IL to accept PL championship as only goal with mediocrity in our OOC

[LEHIGH61]

Pard - Abuse our quarterback?? Talk about abuse - Lehigh certainly abused Curley i ;ast year's game more than you have half a chance at this November. Just look at the photo top left - Curley on his ass. Lehigh will get better. Don't belittle the talent that is on our team. Colgate looked like crap against Princeton and were fortunate to win. From what I have seen, Lafayette is no better than Colgate. See you and CURLEY AND MO in November! And get rid of that ancient picture that is now irrelevant.