What's the history behind Tennessee State joining the OVC?

[R.A.]

?

[Cocky]

Not sure, but I bet travel had a lot to do with it.

[JSU02]

GOOD QUESTION!! GOOD QUESTION!

[MplsBison]

I'm guessing when TSU absorbed UT-Nashville in 1979, they were no longer considered a HBCU and so they left the SWAC? Or were they even in the SWAC?

[mikebigg]

I'm guessing when TSU absorbed UT-Nashville in 1979, they were no longer considered a HBCU and so they left the SWAC? Or were they even in the SWAC?

Was never in the SWAC... I believe the decision was made for political reasons or due to political influence. However, Economics played a part in influenciing the political move behind it as well. Travel costs are surely lower as most of the schools are in Tenn.

[813Jag]

I'm guessing when TSU absorbed UT-Nashville in 1979, they were no longer considered a HBCU and so they left the SWAC? Or were they even in the SWAC?
Tennessee St was never in the SWAC.

[TTUEagles]

I know that part of their inclusion to the OVC was to be allowed to keep 4 non-conference games ("The classics") on their schedule. Therefore, they typically play 1 less conference game than the rest of the OVC members...I want to say that TSU was an independent and found a geographic fit with the OVC (MTSU used to be in the OVC at that time and they played regularly to open the season).

[SU DOG]

If I remember correctly, there was a court settlement between UT-Nashville and TSU, resulting in UTN being absorbed into Tenn State. As a part of the court settlement, Tenn State was required to be in the OVC, and the aforementioned privileges were granted. I think that TSU has no choice now but to be in the OVC due to that settlement. Admittedly I am fuzzy on the details, but I believe that is the gist of it.

[JSU02]

I want to say that TSU was an independent and found a geographic fit with the OVC (MTSU used to be in the OVC at that time and they played regularly to open the season).

It seems as though you are correct.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ohiovalley/tennessee_state/index.php

1916-1925 Independent

1926-1929 Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

1930-1944 Independent

1945-1966 Midwestern Conference

1967-1972 Independent

1973-1976 Division II Independent

1977-1977 Division I Independent

1978-1980 Division I-A Independent

1981-1987 Division I-AA Independent

1988-20XX Ohio Valley Conference

No Team: 1917-1920, 1941-1943

[SU Jag]

I'm guessing when TSU absorbed UT-Nashville in 1979, they were no longer considered a HBCU and so they left the SWAC? Or were they even in the SWAC?

Are you serious?how can a school no longer be considered an hbcu? Please explain that to me.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Are you serious?how can a school no longer be considered an hbcu? Please explain that to me.

Exactly! I wanted to say the same thing.

St. Phillips College in San Antonio, TX is a HBCU but the enrollment is predominantly Hispanic and have been for decades.

[SU Jag]

Exactly! I wanted to say the same thing.

St. Phillips College in San Antonio, TX is a HBCU but the enrollment is predominantly Hispanic and have been for decades.

So are other hbcus. I guess people really don't take the time to read and research a topic before they post on it. oh well.

[WestCoastAggie]

So are other hbcus. I guess people really don't take the time to read and research a topic before they post on it. oh well.

Just because a school isn't majority African-American doesn't mean the school shouldn't embrace it's history. An HBCU is still an HBCU! xnodx

[SU Jag]

Yeah, their are several hbcus that do not have majority black enrollments. Hbcus got the name based on how they were started not what the students look like or what conference they play in.

[89Hen]

Yeah, their are several hbcus that do not have majority black enrollments. Hbcus got the name based on how they were started not what the students look like or what conference they play in.
I think you guys are being a little harsh. I sure would have said a school is an HBCU becaue it's student population has historically been a majority black and I didn't know there were any HBCU's that weren't a majority (or at least a plurality) black. xpeacex

[Big Al]

I think they're just trying to correct misperceptions. Just because a school is a HBCU doesn't mean white guys like you or I can't apply.

[chrisattsu]

I think they're just trying to correct misperceptions. Just because a school is a HBCU doesn't mean white guys like you or I can't apply.

On the contrary, I have heard that Anglo students are eligible for scholarships at HBCUs

[89Hen]

I think they're just trying to correct misperceptions. Just because a school is a HBCU doesn't mean white guys like you or I can't apply.
I'm not sure anyone thought that, but I still thought being a black majority is what made an HBCU an HBCU. xpeacex

[MplsBison]

It was in reference to the fact that UT-Nashville was not an HBCU.

Therefore, the new "combined" TSU is no longer an HBCU.

[chrisattsu]

Exactly! I wanted to say the same thing.

St. Phillips College in San Antonio, TX is a HBCU but the enrollment is predominantly Hispanic and have been for decades.

I never really thought about it, but it makes sense that St. Phillips could have started as a HBCU. Based on its location, it would have been the education epicenter of San Antonio's eastside. This has traditionally been the African American area of the community.

That being said, San Antonio has been a melting pot since its inception.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

It was in reference to the fact that UT-Nashville was not an HBCU.

Therefore, the new "combined" TSU is no longer an HBCU.

As you define it; the new "combined" TnSU is still and will always be an HBCU.

[MplsBison]

As you define it; the new "combined" TnSU is still and will always be an HBCU.

Not in my opinion.

If an HBCU combines with a non-HBCU, the resultant combination is no longer an HBCU.



You are free to believe otherwise. It's only a matter of our opinions, there is no factual answer.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

You are free to believe otherwise. It's only a matter of our opinions, there is no factual answer.

There's no factual answer? xconfusedx

Here's what the Department of Education (who came up with the distinction says about Tennessee State):

Tennessee
Four-Year Public
Tennessee State University

Four-Year Private
Fisk University
Knoxville College
Lane College
Lemoyne-Owen College
Meharry Medical College

http://www.ed.gov/about/inits/list/whhbcu/edlite-list.html

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Furthermore, the Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, defines an HBCU as:


"...any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education] to be a reliable authority as to the quality of training offered or is, according to such an agency or association, making reasonable progress toward accreditation."

Since Tennessee State was founded in 1912, it is considered by US law to be an HBCU.

2009 STUDENT ETHNIC DIVERSITY: 75% Black, 22% White, 3% Other

http://www.tnstate.edu/interior.asp?mid=903&ptid=1

[MplsBison]

Thanks for pointing out that UT-Nashville wasn't an HBCU by either definition.

Therefore, TnSU has not been an HBCU since they combined. That's my opinion and you will not change it. Don't bother.

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm not sure anyone thought that, but I still thought being a black majority is what made an HBCU an HBCU. xpeacex
Nope! The "H" stands for Historically. These schools were founded because back then in the 19th century, they did not want African-Americans going to schools with White americans.

We were Separate yet (UN)equal. xthumbsupx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Thanks for pointing out that UT-Nashville wasn't an HBCU by either definition.

Therefore, TnSU has not been an HBCU since they combined. That's my opinion and you will not change it. Don't bother.

This is fun! xthumbsupx

Question: So when the two institutions "merged" did the name remain UT-Nashville or Tennesee State University?

Answer: Tennessee State University, a HBCU

You're right! Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion even if it's wrong. xthumbsupx

[WestCoastAggie]

Thanks for pointing out that UT-Nashville wasn't an HBCU by either definition.

Therefore, TnSU has not been an HBCU since they combined. That's my opinion and you will not change it. Don't bother.

So u can't sit here and believe that Tennessee State, which was FORCED to merge with UT-Nashville, must throw away it's history and its branding as an "HBCU" because UT-Nashville's history isn't?

Your opinion is one of the biggest crocks of BS ever! But you are entitled to it sir.xsmhx

[WestCoastAggie]

On the contrary, I have heard that Anglo students are eligible for scholarships at HBCUs

Yep! It's a cool thing too because those schollys apply for any interested and accepted student that isn't African-American. A HBCU's mission is to educate ANYONE, regardless of the color of their skin and ethnic origin, AND PROVIDE THEM WITH A QUALITY EDUCATION so they will become positive and productive leaders of society. xthumbsupx

[sharkeycox]

Yep! It's a cool thing too because those schollys apply for any interested and accepted student that isn't African-American. A HBCU's mission is to educate ANYONE, regardless of the color of their skin and ethnic origin, AND PROVIDE THEM WITH A QUALITY EDUCATION so they will become positive and productive leaders of society. xthumbsupx
I believe this is the dumbest thread I have ever read
xeyebrowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On the contrary, I have heard that Anglo students are eligible for scholarships at HBCUs

Especially if you're a kicker.

This "debate" is reall easy to defuse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_black_colleges_and_universities


The Higher Education Act of 1965, as amended, defines an HBCU as: "...any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education] to be a reliable authority as to the quality of training offered or is, according to such an agency or association, making reasonable progress toward accreditation." [3]

So Tennessee State, founded as the "Tennessee Agricultural and Industrial State Normal School" (or Tennessee A&I) in 1912, had educating black people as its mission and thus is considered an HBCU. That UT-Nashville got absorbed into it, or whatever the race ratio is now is immaterial - this is the definition of HBCU, and it applies.

Note also that these schools have to have had the education of black people as part of their charters to qualify. Many schools prior to Brown V. Board of Education had black students (Ivy League Schools, Morehead State, Drake to name but a few) but didn't have the education of black students as a part of their school mission.

As for the question, I don't know the answer as to why the OVC had them join in 1986. A newspaper entry from 1986 seems to imply that (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=LH&s_site=kentucky&p_multi=LH&p_theme=realcities&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB738BF2F1469DE&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM):


It took 20-some years of campaigning and a week of making promises, but yesterday Tennessee State University finally won the hearts and votes of the Ohio Valley Conference. Yesterday afternoon, in a meeting of school presidents at the Raddison Hotel, the OVC voted unanimously to accept the withdrawal of the University of Akron, after next season, and the entry of Tennessee State.

It looks like TSU bode their time, and when Akron left the OVC and threatened to destabilize the league, TSU jumped in.

[SU Jag]

I'm not sure anyone thought that, but I still thought being a black majority is what made an HBCU an HBCU. xpeacex

What do you think the "h" in hbcu stands for? These schools got their status based on how and why they were started.

[SU Jag]

Not in my opinion.

If an HBCU combines with a non-HBCU, the resultant combination is no longer an HBCU.


You are free to believe otherwise. It's only a matter of our opinions, there is no factual answer.

Yes there is! But you're free to have your own opinion, just like some people still believe that the world is flat.

[89Hen]

What do you think the "h" in hbcu stands for? These schools got their status based on how and why they were started.
Usually when I say something is Historically X, I mean it was and is...

Is the Bayou Classic on NBC this year?

The Bayou Classic is historically on NBC, so I would expect it to be. xpeacex

[I-AA Fan]

TSU was an independent in all sports but basketball, where they were in the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference ...which was where most of the MEAC/SWAC schools were & I think it actually was part of a name change. They dropped down to I-AA in 1981 (still an independent) and joined the OVC in 1988 when they had enough sports to fit the conference requirements. That is really the first, and only, football conference they were ever in.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Yes there is! But you're free to have your own opinion, just like some people still believe that the world is flat.

Hey the holocaust never happened either.
Nor landing on the moon.

[WestCoastAggie]

Usually when I say something is Historically X, I mean it was and is...

Is the Bayou Classic on NBC this year?

The Bayou Classic is historically on NBC, so I would expect it to be. xpeacex

But the Bayou Classic didn't start on NBC and can surely move.

Just remember that just because a school is classified as a H.istorically B.lack C.ollege & U.niversity, it does not mean that the school has to be majority African-American. xthumbsupx

[I-AA Fan]

I think you guys will find the answer to your questions based on:

1. Avon Williams Campus downtown (which is an HBCU college).
2. The land grant issued to expand beyond that.

[WileECoyote06]

I will not mention West Virginia State University or Bluefield State University. . I will not mention . . .

oh, whoops did I just say that?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I will not mention West Virginia State University or Bluefield State University. . I will not mention . . .

oh, whoops did I just say that?

Right! The two only HBCUs in the state of West Virginia that blacks are the minority on campus.

[EKU05]

Just to add my two cents...

I have no idea if the SWAC was ever interested in TSU or not, but part of the reason that TSU preferred the OVC was simply because they wanted their program to pursue participation in the post-season. Obviously the SWAC has other priorities related to their own traditions that aren't really condusive to that.

TSU is a good fit in the OVC in terms of being a mid-sized state university. Add in the fact there are 4 OVC teams in Tennessee (and 3 more in Kentucky to the North) and it just makes sense. I like having them in the conference. I do wish that they were required to play all 8 conference games like everyone else, but I blame the OVC more for letting them do it than I do TSU for taking what they're given.

[GAD]

Just to add my two cents...

I have no idea if the SWAC was ever interested in TSU or not, but part of the reason that TSU preferred the OVC was simply because they wanted their program to pursue participation in the post-season. Obviously the SWAC has other priorities related to their own traditions that aren't really condusive to that.

TSU is a good fit in the OVC in terms of being a mid-sized state university. Add in the fact there are 4 OVC teams in Tennessee (and 3 more in Kentucky to the North) and it just makes sense. I like having them in the conference. I do wish that they were required to play all 8 conference games like everyone else, but I blame the OVC more for letting them do it than I do TSU for taking what they're given.
The SWAC didn't leave the playoffs until '99 when TSU join the OVC in '88 they could have still participated in the playoffs

[EKU05]

Did they have an autobid, though? I thought I remembered that no SWAC team has been in the playoffs since 1997, but I'm a little fuzzy on that one.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Just to add my two cents...

I have no idea if the SWAC was ever interested in TSU or not, but part of the reason that TSU preferred the OVC was simply because they wanted their program to pursue participation in the post-season. Obviously the SWAC has other priorities related to their own traditions that aren't really condusive to that.

TSU is a good fit in the OVC in terms of being a mid-sized state university. Add in the fact there are 4 OVC teams in Tennessee (and 3 more in Kentucky to the North) and it just makes sense. I like having them in the conference. I do wish that they were required to play all 8 conference games like everyone else, but I blame the OVC more for letting them do it than I do TSU for taking what they're given.
From what I am told, TSU tried to join the SWAC, but Rudy Washington, former SWAC Commish, only wanted their football team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just to add my two cents...

I have no idea if the SWAC was ever interested in TSU or not, but part of the reason that TSU preferred the OVC was simply because they wanted their program to pursue participation in the post-season. Obviously the SWAC has other priorities related to their own traditions that aren't really condusive to that.

TSU is a good fit in the OVC in terms of being a mid-sized state university. Add in the fact there are 4 OVC teams in Tennessee (and 3 more in Kentucky to the North) and it just makes sense. I like having them in the conference. I do wish that they were required to play all 8 conference games like everyone else, but I blame the OVC more for letting them do it than I do TSU for taking what they're given.

Keep in mind too that I think EKU was in the middle of their great run, too. The OVC was one of the premier I-AA conferences at that time I'm pretty sure.

[SU Jag]

From what I am told, TSU tried to join the SWAC, but Rudy Washington, former SWAC Commish, only wanted their football team.


There was talk around 2000 about adding Tennessee State and Morris Brown to the conference and at the time it was considered almost a lock. Im not sure what happened though.

[BearsCountry]

There was talk around 2000 about adding Tennessee State and Morris Brown to the conference and at the time it was considered almost a lock. Im not sure what happened though.

Didn't Morris Brown just close up shop? I remember we had a game scheduled with them and then the school shut down I think. I know they had a nice stadium in Atlanta, its where We Are Marshall was shot.

[Bigmoneymike]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1422732]Especially if you're a kicker.

QUOTE]

xnodx