NL MVP Candidates

[ngineer]

Not an AL guy that I follow the junior circuit enough, so a companion thread here. My initial thought is that this is a three man race: Pujols, Ramirez and Howard. The Cards, Marlins, or Phils are nowhere without these guys.

[Seahawks Fan]

I think it's a one man race: Pujols.

[GannonFan]

Yup, just as easy as in the AL - there's no suspense to the MVP's this year.

Pujols is the clear choice, then a very distant Ramirez 2nd and Howard 3rd.

[Dukie95]

The New York Mets' trainer

[NHwildEcat]

Pujols...not even close

[gmoney55]

This discussion was over in about mid-July

[NHwildEcat]

Pujols is one of the few NL hitters who would be very good int he AL...that is saying something!

[GannonFan]

Pujols is one of the few NL hitters who would be very good int he AL...that is saying something!


Come on, that's just silly - there are tons of hitters in the National League that would do just fine in the American League. The gap isn't that large. How do guys, even just talking Red Sox here, like Bay, Drew, and Lowell go from being good hitters in the NL to being very similarly good hitters in the AL if the gap is that considerable? A guy like Ryan Howard would have pretty much exactly the same stats he has today in the NL if he was in the AL (and maybe even better considering he wouldn't have to play the field everyday and could still bat).

[gmoney55]

Come on, that's just silly - there are tons of hitters in the National League that would do just fine in the American League. The gap isn't that large. How do guys, even just talking Red Sox here, like Bay, Drew, and Lowell go from being good hitters in the NL to being very similarly good hitters in the AL if the gap is that considerable? A guy like Ryan Howard would have pretty much exactly the same stats he has today in the NL if he was in the AL (and maybe even better considering he wouldn't have to play the field everyday and could still bat).

What he saidxthumbsupx

[MSUfan2010]

If you think it is even close, you are dumb. It is Pujols' by far.

[NHwildEcat]

Come on, that's just silly - there are tons of hitters in the National League that would do just fine in the American League. The gap isn't that large. How do guys, even just talking Red Sox here, like Bay, Drew, and Lowell go from being good hitters in the NL to being very similarly good hitters in the AL if the gap is that considerable? A guy like Ryan Howard would have pretty much exactly the same stats he has today in the NL if he was in the AL (and maybe even better considering he wouldn't have to play the field everyday and could still bat).

I know...I just like getting the NL guys all riled up with AL dominance talk! It works. Usually its the pitchers that have the harder time adjusting...which is why Peavy wasn't jumping for joy at coming to the AL. I mean facts are facts...as a whole the AL is better then the NL and the gap has widened. But both leagues will always have their teams and players at either end of the spectrum.

[MSUfan2010]

In other news, Carp and Waino must have two final good outings to solidify their hopes of a Cy Young. I still think it is Carps to lose

[Gil Dobie]

Pujols......................

[GannonFan]

I know...I just like getting the NL guys all riled up with AL dominance talk! It works. Usually its the pitchers that have the harder time adjusting...which is why Peavy wasn't jumping for joy at coming to the AL. I mean facts are facts...as a whole the AL is better then the NL and the gap has widened. But both leagues will always have their teams and players at either end of the spectrum.

Eh, more opinion than anything else. WS titles are even through this decade and there's no reason to think that an NL team won't win it again this year.

Like I said, hitters are hitters regardless of what league they are in. Same with pitchers. The only difference between pitchers in the AL versus pitchers in the NL is that the AL guys face a 9th batter who's better and they see that 9th batter 2-3 times in a game more than an NL pitcher. So it hurts the stats more. That's why Peavy wasn't excited about going to the AL - he's not the same pitcher he was a few years ago and his stats will easily go up in the AL and it will hurt his next contract. Baseball players think contract first most of the time.

[gmoney55]

Eh, more opinion than anything else. WS titles are even through this decade and there's no reason to think that an NL team won't win it again this year.

Like I said, hitters are hitters regardless of what league they are in. Same with pitchers. The only difference between pitchers in the AL versus pitchers in the NL is that the AL guys face a 9th batter who's better and they see that 9th batter 2-3 times in a game more than an NL pitcher. So it hurts the stats more. That's why Peavy wasn't excited about going to the AL - he's not the same pitcher he was a few years ago and his stats will easily go up in the AL and it will hurt his next contract. Baseball players think contract first most of the time.

Any time you mention Peavy, you'd also have to throw in "leaving the best pitcher's park in the major leagues". That's more important that just switching leagues.

[GannonFan]

Any time you mention Peavy, you'd also have to throw in "leaving the best pitcher's park in the major leagues". That's more important that just switching leagues.


I agree - I wouldn't want Peavy to be my ace. Haven't ever seen him come up big in anything important (WBC, All Star games, etc) - I'd take a whole boat load of pitchers over him.

[UMass922]

Obviously Pujols should win it unanimously . . . after him, I'd go:

2. Hanley Ramirez
3. Chase Utley
4. Prince Fielder
5. Adrian Gonzalez

[ngineer]

I've always had a problem with the "valuable" part of this award. To me, Pujols wins the Most Outstanding Player awared with his overall consistency. I think it is a closer question when determining where a player's team would be without him. It might still be Pujols, but I think it is a much closer question in terms of how valuable he is to the success of the team, i.e. if either one of the three go down, which team will all of a sudden struggle the most to maintain its success, or perhaps, not succeed at all?

[UMass922]

I've always had a problem with the "valuable" part of this award. To me, Pujols wins the Most Outstanding Player awared with his overall consistency. I think it is a closer question when determining where a player's team would be without him. It might still be Pujols, but I think it is a much closer question in terms of how valuable he is to the success of the team, i.e. if either one of the three go down, which team will all of a sudden struggle the most to maintain its success, or perhaps, not succeed at all?

At the end of the day, the MVP is an individual award, and should go to the best individual; it's not fair to either reward or punish a player based on how good or how bad the other guys on his team happen to be. There already are team awards--they're called division titles, league championships, and the World Series. The MVP should be used to honor individual, not team, success.

And anyway, I don't think "most valuable" player really means something all that different from "best" or "most oustanding" player. I look at it this way: let's say each of us has nine bills. I have a $20 bill and eight $1 bills; you have a $10 bill and eight $5 bills. You have the better "team," so to speak--your $50 is going to go futher than my $28--but if the question is which individual bill is the most valuable, the answer is the 20. A $20 bill is always more valuable than a $10 bill, regardless of the total value of the group it's a part of. That's why the question "how can a guy be most valuable if his team doesn't make the playoffs?" has always seemed silly to me. It would be like saying that your $10 bill is more valuable than my $20 bill simply because you happen to have more money overall.

What you're asking is somewhat different, but I don't think it really changes the answer at all. If I have a 20 and eight 5s, and you have a 10 and eight 1s, you might be worse off losing your 10 than I would be losing my 20--you would be losing more than half of your money; I'd be losing only a third of mine--but it still doesn't make the 10 worth inherently more than the 20.

So, since the award is for Most Valuable Player, I think it's the inherent value of the individual player that matters, not his value relative to that of the players around him. So, unless there are some overwhelming intangibles involved (whether positive or negative), I see "Most Valuable Player" and "Most Outstanding Player" as meaning more or less the same thing.

[UNCBears2010]

Obviously Pujols should win it unanimously . . . after him, I'd go:

2. Hanley Ramirez
3. Chase Utley
4. Prince Fielder
5. Adrian Gonzalez

Troy Tulowitzki needs to be in the top 5 somewhere.