Sun Belt now 4-9 vs. Southland

[JohnStOnge]

Since it's inception as a football league and as of Central Arkansas' thrashing of Western Kentucky yesterday.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Since it's inception as a football league...



Since when is the Sun Belch a "Football League?" ;)

[TexasTerror]

These matchups seem to be few and far between...

The Sun Belt has gone with a more SWAC flair in their FCS games as of late, trying to avoid the SLC games. Doubt we see ULM or ULL face any SLC team from the state of Louisiana, just like we won't see UNT face a SHSU, TXST or SFA.

[apaladin]

These matchups seem to be few and far between...

The Sun Belt has gone with a more SWAC flair in their FCS games as of late, trying to avoid the SLC games. Doubt we see ULM or ULL face any SLC team from the state of Louisiana, just like we won't see UNT face a SHSU, TXST or SFA.

I hope WKU is enjoying their foray into FBS after several years. Those 50 point losses and 3 TD losses to FCS teams are not much fun, huh? ASU, Liberty, GSU, TxSt etc, take note. The fun of running with the big dogs wears off quickly. Good job UCA.

[Native]

Congrats to the Southland! xthumbsupx

[GoBlueHens83]

Congrats Southland! Is there anyone who the Sun Belch has a winning record against? lol

[msusig]

The sunbelt conference is a joke. They just need to move those teams down to the FCS so they can compete.

[MaximumBobcat]

Wow, 9-4 against a Fbs conference is a great stat, but I have to disagree with anybody that thinks that the SLC is better than the Sunbelt.

My hypothesis is that that most of these victories are in games played when it's a SLC team that ends the season in the top 3 of the conference, vs a Sunbelt team that ends the season in the bottom 3 of their conference.

I don't really know how accurate that is, just a guess. So if anybody feels like proving me wrong, feel free to look up these 13 games, I'd be interested.

[JohnStOnge]

Wow, 9-4 against a Fbs conference is a great stat, but I have to disagree with anybody that thinks that the SLC is better than the Sunbelt.

My hypothesis is that that most of these victories are in games played when it's a SLC team that ends the season in the top 3 of the conference, vs a Sunbelt team that ends the season in the bottom 3 of their conference.

I don't really know how accurate that is, just a guess. So if anybody feels like proving me wrong, feel free to look up these 13 games, I'd be interested.

I'll look the entire set of games later but that's not always the case. For instance: In 2005 Louisiana Monroe finished in a three way tie with Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette for the Sun Belt title with a 5-2 league record. Arkansas State, which Louisiana Monroe defeated, represented the Sun Belt in the New Orleans Bowl due to a tiebreaker. Northwestern State, which finished tied for third in the Southland with a 4-3 conference record, beat Louisiana Monroe during that regular season.

[JohnStOnge]

Congrats Southland! Is there anyone who the Sun Belch has a winning record against? lol

Without looking it up I'm pretty sure they have winning records against the OVC and the SWAC. Maybe there are others.

[MaximumBobcat]

I'll look the entire set of games later but that's not always the case. For instance: In 2005 Louisiana Monroe finished in a three way tie with Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette for the Sun Belt title with a 5-2 league record. Arkansas State, which Louisiana Monroe defeated, represented the Sun Belt in the New Orleans Bowl due to a tiebreaker. Northwestern State, which finished tied for third in the Southland with a 4-3 conference record, beat Louisiana Monroe during that regular season.

Yeah, there are probably going to be a couple wins over some pretty good Sunbelt teams in there, as we know the SLC can certainly produce some pretty stacked teams. I'm just saying the majority of the games were probably lucky to match up one of the better SLC teams vs one of the lesser Sunbelt teams.

[TexasTerror]

The Sun Belt is the youngest FBS conference in America...and most of the SLC wins against the conference, if I am not mistaken - have come against two of the most poorly funded programs in FBS (ULM and ULL).

As we are very well aware, the Louisiana schools in the league are operating with one hand tied behind their back. In the SBC, ULM and ULL are the bottom of the barrel as far as budgets, Commish Cup results, etc. The most recent win was over a transitioning team and not one of their more developed programs.

Not taking anything away from these victories, because it does boost our image in football as a league - but it is, what it is.

[JohnStOnge]

Ok. I'll post the results below. The Southland teams did have a better conference record overall (40-30) than the Sun Belt teams did (33-43). However, it is most certainly not a situation in which it was mostly top Southland teams playing bottom Sun Belt teams. Among the 12 games, 5 involved Southland teams that finished with winning conference records and 3 involved Sun Belt teams that finished with winning conference records. Only one team that finished with a winning Sun Belt conference record lost to a Southland team, but it's also true that only one team with a winning Southland Conference record lost to a Sun Belt team. I do believe the Sun Belt is a little stronger. However, I also believe that it's weaker top to bottom than at least one FCS league (the CAA) and possibly others. And I think that, with the exception of 2006, there's been at least one team in the Southland each year that would've been capable of contending for the Sun Belt championship.

The Sun Belt is just flat out a pathetic FBS league. It has almost always been within the range of FCS leagues in terms of caliber. There is no way to paint having a 4-9 record against the Southland Conference as anything but absolutely pathetic for a league that wants to call itself FBS regardless of what the matchups have been.

So here we go with the wins and losses prior to this season. The conference record of each team is in parenthesis.

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38

[JohnStOnge]

Yeah, there are probably going to be a couple wins over some pretty good Sunbelt teams in there, as we know the SLC can certainly produce some pretty stacked teams. I'm just saying the majority of the games were probably lucky to match up one of the better SLC teams vs one of the lesser Sunbelt teams.

I think you can see from the details I just posted that that's not true. I'd say 5 of the 12 games historically fit that description. And I'd say that 3 of the 12 were games such that one of the better Sun Belt teams played middle of the pack to lower level Southland teams. I'd say the remaining 4 games matched up lower level teams from each league and the Southland was 3-1 in this "apples to apples" matchups.

[MaximumBobcat]

Damn, UL-Monroe sucks.

[JohnStOnge]

Here's another way to look at it:

There were 5 games such that the Sun Belt team had a better conference winning percentage than the Southland team. The Sun Belt teams were 3-2 in those games.

There were 6 games such that the Southland team had a better conference winning percentage than the Sun Belt team. The Southland was 5-1 in those games.

There was 1 game in which the two teams had identical conference winning percentages. The Southland team won that game.

It's pretty hard to look at those numbers and write the Sun Belt's problem in the series off to just a matter of poorer Sun Belt teams playing some of the better Southland teams.

[MaximumBobcat]

I think you can see from the details I just posted that that's not true. I'd say 5 of the 12 games historically fit that description. And I'd say that 3 of the 12 were games such that one of the better Sun Belt teams played middle of the pack to lower level Southland teams. I'd say the remaining 4 games matched up lower level teams from each league and the Southland was 3-1 in this "apples to apples" matchups.

Damn. Didn't realize 5 out of those 8 wins were against UL-Monroe.

I think the major point we can get out of this conversation is that the Warhawks suuuuck. That 2005 win for NWST looks good though.

[Dallas Demon]

Ok. I'll post the results below. The Southland teams did have a better conference record overall (40-30) than the Sun Belt teams did (33-43). However, it is most certainly not a situation in which it was mostly top Southland teams playing bottom Sun Belt teams. Among the 12 games, 5 involved Southland teams that finished with winning conference records and 3 involved Sun Belt teams that finished with winning conference records. Only one team that finished with a winning Sun Belt conference record lost to a Southland team, but it's also true that only one team with a winning Southland Conference record lost to a Sun Belt team. I do believe the Sun Belt is a little stronger. However, I also believe that it's weaker top to bottom than at least one FCS league (the CAA) and possibly others. And I think that, with the exception of 2006, there's been at least one team in the Southland each year that would've been capable of contending for the Sun Belt championship.

The Sun Belt is just flat out a pathetic FBS league. It has almost always been within the range of FCS leagues in terms of caliber. There is no way to paint having a 4-9 record against the Southland Conference as anything but absolutely pathetic for a league that wants to call itself FBS regardless of what the matchups have been.

So here we go with the wins and losses prior to this season. The conference record of each team is in parenthesis.

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38

We had a couple of wins against Lafayette of recent (last 10 years), but I guess that was just before the Sun Belt was officially formed.

[MaximumBobcat]

It's pretty hard to look at those numbers and write the Sun Belt's problem in the series off to just a matter of poorer Sun Belt teams playing some of the better Southland teams.

Yeah, i think there is more to it than that too.

Another thing that could have been happening was that the Sunbelt teams that were majorly struggling (in terms of wins AND money) for years started scheduling more I-AA teams and money games (UT, Bama, LSU) on their sched instead of playing more home and homes with the WAC, C-USA, MAC, etc... Well that scheduling did little but put them at risk for more upsets against I-AA teams... Probably overconfidence in beating the teams they "left behind" has a lot to do with it as well.

[JohnStOnge]

The most recent win was over a transitioning team and not one of their more developed programs..

Western Kentucky is no longer a transitioning team. We'll see how the Hilltoppers do in Sun Belt play. I think it's reasonable to think Central Arkansas will finish with a better conference record than Western Kentucky will. If so, that'll make the Southland 6-1 in games between the two leagues in which the Southland team finished with a better conference record while the Sun Belt will remain at 3-2 in games in which the Sun Belt team finished with a better conference record. And, of course, the Southland will still be 1-0 in games in which the two teams finished with the same conference record.

[BEAR]

Ok. I'll post the results below. The Southland teams did have a better conference record overall (40-30) than the Sun Belt teams did (33-43). However, it is most certainly not a situation in which it was mostly top Southland teams playing bottom Sun Belt teams. Among the 12 games, 5 involved Southland teams that finished with winning conference records and 3 involved Sun Belt teams that finished with winning conference records. Only one team that finished with a winning Sun Belt conference record lost to a Southland team, but it's also true that only one team with a winning Southland Conference record lost to a Sun Belt team. I do believe the Sun Belt is a little stronger. However, I also believe that it's weaker top to bottom than at least one FCS league (the CAA) and possibly others. And I think that, with the exception of 2006, there's been at least one team in the Southland each year that would've been capable of contending for the Sun Belt championship.

The Sun Belt is just flat out a pathetic FBS league. It has almost always been within the range of FCS leagues in terms of caliber. There is no way to paint having a 4-9 record against the Southland Conference as anything but absolutely pathetic for a league that wants to call itself FBS regardless of what the matchups have been.

So here we go with the wins and losses prior to this season. The conference record of each team is in parenthesis.

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38
2009 Western Kentucky (0-2) 7, Central Arkansas (0-1) 28

[JohnStOnge]

Yeah, i think there is more to it than that too.

Another thing that could have been happening was that the Sunbelt teams that were majorly struggling (in terms of wins AND money) for years started scheduling more I-AA teams and money games (UT, Bama, LSU) on their sched instead of playing more home and homes with the WAC, C-USA, MAC, etc... Well that scheduling did little but put them at risk for more upsets against I-AA teams... Probably overconfidence in beating the teams they "left behind" has a lot to do with it as well.

I don't know. I think the problem is that it's basically a FCS caliber league in terms of the caliber of its teams. It is much closer to the Southland in overall talent level than it is to any other FBS league with the possible exception of the MAC. And I mean "possible."

Take players on NFL rosters right now. Teams now in the Southland average 1.3, teams now in the Sun Belt average 2.6, and teams now in the MAC average 4.6. The CUSA average is 6.3 and the WAC average is 7.1.

Meanwhile the CAA average is 2.4 and the Missouri Valley average is 2.7. See what I mean? Aside from that, I watch Sun Belt football on TV all the time. It's a FCS talent level. Basically, with rare exception, they're playing with Southern FCS type recruits. All they've basically done is hurt Southern FCS football by taking a bunch of that level of recruits out of the pool and calling themselves "FBS."

[centexguy]

All those SLC wins except for one were against ex-SLC teams. Wasn't UL-Monroe not too far removed from being a SLC team when they started losing those games against the SLC?

What I find impressive about the UCA win is that UCA is new to D1, so any talk about WKU being new to FBS doesn't hold much water. The SBC hasn't made much headway in improving as a FBS league, which could lead to it's demise in the future if things don't change.

[MaximumBobcat]

The SBC hasn't made much headway in improving as a FBS league, which could lead to it's demise in the future if things don't change.

I'm not too sure about that. Didn't they get multiple bowl bids last year? I think they won at least one of them as well. Also, didn't they beat C-USA this year in OOC matchups? I'm not really sure, I follow the MWC and Big XII a lot more closely.

[Killtoppers90]

Western Kentucky is no longer a transitioning team. We'll see how the Hilltoppers do in Sun Belt play. I think it's reasonable to think Central Arkansas will finish with a better conference record than Western Kentucky will. If so, that'll make the Southland 6-1 in games between the two leagues in which the Southland team finished with a better conference record while the Sun Belt will remain at 3-2 in games in which the Sun Belt team finished with a better conference record. And, of course, the Southland will still be 1-0 in games in which the two teams finished with the same conference record.

That is no stretch there John!

[JohnStOnge]

All those SLC wins except for one were against ex-SLC teams. Wasn't UL-Monroe not too far removed from being a SLC team when they started losing those games against the SLC?

Five of the nine Sun Belt teams are former Southland teams. Louisiana Monroe went I-A in 1994.

And, actually, all of the Southland wins are against former Southland teams. Louisiana-Lafayette was in the Southland when it was a I-A league. When the rest of the Southland went I-AA, Louisiana-Lafayette opted to remain I-A as an Independent.

[JohnStOnge]

That is no stretch there John!

Well, we'll see. The Sun Belt is an extremely weak FBS league.

[JDC325]

Ok. I'll post the results below. The Southland teams did have a better conference record overall (40-30) than the Sun Belt teams did (33-43). However, it is most certainly not a situation in which it was mostly top Southland teams playing bottom Sun Belt teams. Among the 12 games, 5 involved Southland teams that finished with winning conference records and 3 involved Sun Belt teams that finished with winning conference records. Only one team that finished with a winning Sun Belt conference record lost to a Southland team, but it's also true that only one team with a winning Southland Conference record lost to a Sun Belt team. I do believe the Sun Belt is a little stronger. However, I also believe that it's weaker top to bottom than at least one FCS league (the CAA) and possibly others. And I think that, with the exception of 2006, there's been at least one team in the Southland each year that would've been capable of contending for the Sun Belt championship.

The Sun Belt is just flat out a pathetic FBS league. It has almost always been within the range of FCS leagues in terms of caliber. There is no way to paint having a 4-9 record against the Southland Conference as anything but absolutely pathetic for a league that wants to call itself FBS regardless of what the matchups have been.

So here we go with the wins and losses prior to this season. The conference record of each team is in parenthesis.

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38

Wow context is very important sometimes. The first year of the Sun Belt was 2001 and without Monroe not much to be beating your chest about.
This also WKU's first official year in the FBS and in the Sun Belt. xcoffeex

[JohnStOnge]

Wow context is very important sometimes. The first year of the Sun Belt was 2001 and without Monroe not much to be beating your chest about.


Except that Louisiana Monroe went I-A in 1994. Arkansas State went I-A in 1990. Louisiana Lafayette was never I-AA. Also, again, you need to look at what each Sun Belt team did within its own league and what each Southland team did in it's own league in each case. When Louisiana Monroe tied for the Sun Belt title, it lost to a 3-3 Southland team.

Maybe I can agree with it not being much to "beat my chest about." But, if so, it's because there's no reason to beat my chest over a winning record against such a pathetic FBS league. The point isn't that the Southland is great. The point is that the Sun Belt is really bad.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I honestly think the Sun Belt is better than the MAC at the top, middle, and bottom.

[JohnStOnge]

I honestly think the Sun Belt is better than the MAC at the top, middle, and bottom.

On what basis? If you make me look it up I will but I can tell you without doing it that the Sun Belt has the worst non conference record against other FBS leagues, the lowest NFL player production, etc. Also, I don't think you're going to find a FCS league against which the MAC has a losing record. And the MAC plays a pretty good number of games against the Gateway-now-MVC, which is a tougher league than the Southland.

Seriously. I'm kind of intrigued by this defense of the Sun Belt; which is obviously awful. Not that the MAC isn't also awful in the context of FBS leagues. But not THAT awful.

[MaximumBobcat]

Except that Louisiana Monroe went I-A in 1994. Arkansas State went I-A in 1990. Louisiana Lafayette was never I-AA. Also, again, you need to look at what each Sun Belt team did within its own league and what each Southland team did in it's own league in each case. When Louisiana Monroe tied for the Sun Belt title, it lost to a 3-3 Southland team.

They were also Independent I-A between the SLC and the Belt. Which was disastrous for their program. By the time they made it into the Belt, their program was so in the dump that everybody was beating them, both SLC and Sunbelt schools.

They haven't had a winning season since moving up.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/sunbelt/louisiana_monroe/yearly_totals.php

[BearsCountry]

Looks like McNeese St is still bitter after that all of its old conference mates left them behind.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Looks like McNeese St is still bitter after that all of its old conference mates left them behind.

Your use of the term "left them behind" is rather interesting. Usually, when you leave somebody "behind", you go on to great success.

The point of John's posts is that the Belt hasn't succeeded at anything other than being the worst football league in the country.If that's leaving us behind, then so be it.

The oher major problem with your hip shot is that it fails to consider that we're not covetous of the FBS designation. We're very comfortable right where we're at. The only thing McNeese fans are bitter about is our own performance in the 97 and 02 games in Chattanooga...

[McNeese72]

Looks like McNeese St is still bitter after that all of its old conference mates left them behind.

Rothflmao!!!! Yeah, right!!!!! xlolx


Doc

[Buzzcut]

I honestly think the Sun Belt is better than the MAC at the top, middle, and bottom.

At least a few MAC teams (Central Michigan and Akron) are playing very competitive football right now. I don't see any Sun Belt teams upsetting teams like Michigan State on their own turf.

[DG Cowboy]

Looks like McNeese St is still bitter after that all of its old conference mates left them behind.

I remember the many years LaTech, ULL, and ULM had 3-4 home games and for the rest of the schedule they were cannon fodder for big FBS teams so they could pay the bills in their move "up". Since we have the last win over ULL and ULM as FBS schools, I really don't know what there is to feel bitter about. Our conference schools are all an easy drive except for UCA, and we enjoy being able to follow the Cowboys. Should the Texas schools move up to FBS, then we'll just have to see what affiliations are available.

[JDC325]

Except that Louisiana Monroe went I-A in 1994. Arkansas State went I-A in 1990. Louisiana Lafayette was never I-AA. Also, again, you need to look at what each Sun Belt team did within its own league and what each Southland team did in it's own league in each case. When Louisiana Monroe tied for the Sun Belt title, it lost to a 3-3 Southland team.

Maybe I can agree with it not being much to "beat my chest about." But, if so, it's because there's no reason to beat my chest over a winning record against such a pathetic FBS league. The point isn't that the Southland is great. The point is that the Sun Belt is really bad.

Correction the Southland is a good FCS conference and the Sun Belt whose members were either transient, new FBS programs or just started up or after 2001 is currently a bad FBS conference but continues to improve and grow. If the Sun Belt dropped all its teams to the FCS they would be one of the top two conferences in the FCS. If the Southland took its current members to the FBS you would probalbly be worse than the Sun Belt. Regardless one team is basically pulling down the average and what happened back in over five years ago is pretty much irrelevant when comparing yourself to a young growing FBS conference.

[MaximumBobcat]

At least a few MAC teams (Central Michigan and Akron) are playing very competitive football right now. I don't see any Sun Belt teams upsetting teams like Michigan State on their own turf.

ULL just beat Kansas State.

Middle Tenn just beat Maryland.

Ark St and Troy has beaten Big XII teams the past couple of years.

[Killtoppers90]

At least a few MAC teams (Central Michigan and Akron) are playing very competitive football right now. I don't see any Sun Belt teams upsetting teams like Michigan State on their own turf.

There is a wide gap between Akron as compared to Michigan State.

[terrierbob]

Ok. I'll post the results below. The Southland teams did have a better conference record overall (40-30) than the Sun Belt teams did (33-43). However, it is most certainly not a situation in which it was mostly top Southland teams playing bottom Sun Belt teams. Among the 12 games, 5 involved Southland teams that finished with winning conference records and 3 involved Sun Belt teams that finished with winning conference records. Only one team that finished with a winning Sun Belt conference record lost to a Southland team, but it's also true that only one team with a winning Southland Conference record lost to a Sun Belt team. I do believe the Sun Belt is a little stronger. However, I also believe that it's weaker top to bottom than at least one FCS league (the CAA) and possibly others. And I think that, with the exception of 2006, there's been at least one team in the Southland each year that would've been capable of contending for the Sun Belt championship.

The Sun Belt is just flat out a pathetic FBS league. It has almost always been within the range of FCS leagues in terms of caliber. There is no way to paint having a 4-9 record against the Southland Conference as anything but absolutely pathetic for a league that wants to call itself FBS regardless of what the matchups have been.

So here we go with the wins and losses prior to this season. The conference record of each team is in parenthesis.

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38


Terriers beat ULM in 2000

[JohnStOnge]

Correction the Southland is a good FCS conference and the Sun Belt whose members were either transient, new FBS programs or just started up or after 2001 is currently a bad FBS conference but continues to improve and grow. If the Sun Belt dropped all its teams to the FCS they would be one of the top two conferences in the FCS. If the Southland took its current members to the FBS you would probalbly be worse than the Sun Belt. Regardless one team is basically pulling down the average and what happened back in over five years ago is pretty much irrelevant when comparing yourself to a young growing FBS conference.

If you took that one team out it'd be 4-4. Whoopdie do.

Plus there was a year that wasn't over five years ago when that "one team" tied for the Sun Belt championship and lost to a team that finished tied for third in the Southland.

It's not irrelevant at all. You talk about "young." The organization as a football league is "young," I guess. But Arkansas State has been I-A/FCS since 1990. ULL has been I-A since 1973. Louisiana Monroe has been I-A since 1994.

Please.

[JohnStOnge]

ULL just beat Kansas State.

Middle Tenn just beat Maryland.

Ark St and Troy has beaten Big XII teams the past couple of years.

Maryland's only victory this year was by 38-35 over James Madison in overtime.

Kansas State's only victory was by 21-17 over UMass.

Arkansas State beat a Texas A&M team that finished 4-8. It is not uncommon, proportionately, for good I-AA/FCS teams to beat BCS league teams that finish with losing records.

Troy beat Missouri, which finished 5-6, in 2005 and beat Oklahoma State, which finished 7-6, in 2007. Both games were on Troy's home field. During the same year, Appalachian State beat Michigan.

No Sun Belt team has ever beaten a team that has finished a given year ranked in either I-A/FBS top 25. Michigan did finish in the I-A/FBS top 25 after Appalachian State beat the Wolverines.

The point is that it is a FCS caliber league. Arguing otherwise is futile.

[theboro]

Maryland's only victory this year was by 38-35 over James Madison in overtime.

Kansas State's only victory was by 21-17 over UMass.

Arkansas State beat a Texas A&M team that finished 4-8. It is not uncommon, proportionately, for good I-AA/FCS teams to beat BCS league teams that finish with losing records.

Troy beat Missouri, which finished 5-6, in 2005 and beat Oklahoma State, which finished 7-6, in 2007. Both games were on Troy's home field. During the same year, Appalachian State beat Michigan.

No Sun Belt team has ever beaten a team that has finished a given year ranked in either I-A/FBS top 25. Michigan did finish in the I-A/FBS top 25 after Appalachian State beat the Wolverines.

The point is that it is a FCS caliber league. Arguing otherwise is futile.

So the Sun Belt teams got it done when the FCS teams couldn't? Isn't JMU ranked in the top 10 in FCS?

A couple of points everyone fails to mention
1. It's about more than football. Middle Tennessee's move to the SBC has elevated all of its sports, and in the last two years we've been ranked in the Top 25 in WBB, baseball, golf, volleyball and had Top 30 finishes in men's and women's indoor and outdoor track.

2. It's also about more money, more exposure and an eventual move up.

Middle's Tuesday night game against Florida Atlantic last year had better attendance and better TV ratings than the FCS championship game. Perception is reality.

[El Gato]

Middle's Tuesday night game against Florida Atlantic last year had better attendance and better TV ratings than the FCS championship game. Perception is reality.

Good arguments on both sides, but that quote above shows what those past these message boards really see. More exposure and thus more money.

[JohnStOnge]

So the Sun Belt teams got it done when the FCS teams couldn't? Isn't JMU ranked in the top 10 in FCS?

A couple of points everyone fails to mention
1. It's about more than football. Middle Tennessee's move to the SBC has elevated all of its sports, and in the last two years we've been ranked in the Top 25 in WBB, baseball, golf, volleyball and had Top 30 finishes in men's and women's indoor and outdoor track.

2. It's also about more money, more exposure and an eventual move up.

Middle's Tuesday night game against Florida Atlantic last year had better attendance and better TV ratings than the FCS championship game. Perception is reality.

Ok, now (as I suspected) we see what's behind this thing of trying to spin the Sun Belt into anything other than an absolutely awful league in the FBS context.

All other things aside, I doubt that Middle Tennessee has a better financial bottom line than it did when it was in I-AA. The idea that a school is likely to improve its bottom line by moving from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS has been repeatedly debunked. The "typical" outcome is that they increase revenues but also increase expenses by an even greater degree so that the bottom line outcome is that they end up losing more money than they were before.

And, no perception is not necessarily reality. It may be important, but sometimes it's consistent with reality and sometimes it's not. Whatever the perception is, it doesn't change the reality that the Sun Belt is not distinctly different in caliber than any one of the better FCS leagues. If the perception is that it's a higher level of football than FCS, the perception is innaccurate. It's not reality at all.

[MaximumBobcat]

So the Sun Belt teams got it done when the FCS teams couldn't? Isn't JMU ranked in the top 10 in FCS?



Haha, yep, that's what it looks like to me. xwhistlex

I'm getting sort of sick of this thread, so I'll say my final peace...

I feel that if you take the present day SLC and the present day Sunbelt and pick two random teams from each conference, the Belt would probably have a .650-.700 winning percentage. Not great fot a FBS league, but meh.

There's not a large enough sampling size to really compare these two conferences IMHO, PLUS the I feel the Sunbelt is getting better every year, PLUS, UL-Monroe suck(ed?)(s?) so bad they throw off the whole stats.

[JohnStOnge]

Good arguments on both sides, but that quote above shows what those past these message boards really see. More exposure and thus more money.

No, Gato, it doesn't usually work that way. The "typical" outcome is higher revenues and higher expenses with the higher revenues not being sufficient to offset the higher expenses. If you don't believe me, ask the NCAA.

I used to go through all kinds of numbers, look things up, and demonstrate that quantitatively. But it's pointless because people in the FBS wannabe club will have it go into one eyeball and out the other. They are not interested in reality.

Yes, there are exceptions. I'm sure Boise State is one. But, more often than not, a school loses rather than gains money by moving from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS.

Now, if you're talking about getting more exposure...yes...you get that. But it doesn't usually translate into a better financial bottom line for the school.

[El Gato]

Whatever the perception is, it doesn't change the reality that the Sun Belt is not distinctly different in caliber than any one of the better FCS leagues


Right, to everyone on this board maybe. But the average football fan in America doesn't read this board...they just see an FBS team on TV, and everyone else, in their eyes, is Div II. Of course you can take this up another level when comparing the BCS to the Sun Belt, and the perception is skewed even more. But, the reality is, that is the perception of the average fan.

[JSU02]

Sun Belt wins:

2001 Louisiana Lafayette (2-4) 20, Nicholls State (1-5) 0
2002 North Texas (6-0) 23, Nicholls State (3-3) 0
2004 Louisiana Lafayette (2-5) 14, Northwestern State (4-1) 7
2005 Louisiana Lafayette (5-2) 49, Northwestern STate (3-3) 28

Sun Belt losses:

2001 Arkansas State (2-4) 22, Nicholls State (1-5) 28
2001 Arkansas State (2-4)28, Jacksonville State (2-4) 31
2001 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 9, Sam Houston State (5-1) 20
2002 Louisiana Monroe (2-4) 19, McNeese State (6-0) 24
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 10, Northwestern State (1-4) 14
2003 Louisiana Monroe (1-5) 21, Stephen F. Austin (4-1) 23
2005 Louisiana Monroe (5-2) 23, Northwestern State (3-3) 27
2007 Louisiana Lafayette (3-4) 17, McNeese State (7-0) 38

Not sure if you are only going back to 2001 for some reason, but

2000 Louisiana-Lafayette 14, Jacksonville State (2-5) 28

[JohnStOnge]

Right, to everyone on this board maybe. But the average football fan in America doesn't read this board...they just see an FBS team on TV, and everyone else, in their eyes, is Div II. Of course you can take this up another level when comparing the BCS to the Sun Belt, and the perception is skewed even more. But, the reality is, that is the perception of the average fan.

I didn't argue with you about what perception is. All I said is that perception is not necessarily reality. What we're talking about here is what the caliber of the Sun Belt as a football league is. And it's much more in line in those terms with the world of FCS than it is with the world of FBS. I don't even know how anybody could even seriously argue against that assertion with a straight face.

[El Gato]

No, Gato, it doesn't usually work that way. The "typical" outcome is higher revenues and higher expenses with the higher revenues not being sufficient to offset the higher expenses. If you don't believe me, ask the NCAA.

I used to go through all kinds of numbers, look things up, and demonstrate that quantitatively. But it's pointless because people in the FBS wannabe club will have it go into one eyeball and out the other. They are not interested in reality.

Yes, there are exceptions. I'm sure Boise State is one. But, more often than not, a school loses rather than gains money by moving from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS.

Now, if you're talking about getting more exposure...yes...you get that. But it doesn't usually translate into a better financial bottom line for the school.

True, and no this stuff does not go in one eyeball and out the other(never heard it put that way before). I have seen those numbers before and yes many many schools are operating in the red as a result of playing in the FBS.

But the fact of the matter is that if you play your cards right (ie. get in a good conference that won't overtax the travel budget, hire great coaches, have an AD that knows what the hell their doing, market yourself well, and of course win-which goes hand and hand with coaching) then the potential for increasing your revenue is much greater than what could ever be achieved in the FCS. So in that regards, I guess I should have changed my wording. "More exposure, and thus the potential for more money."

[JohnStOnge]

Not sure if you are only going back to 2001 for some reason, but

2000 Louisiana-Lafayette 14, Jacksonville State (2-5) 28

Because the Sun Belt was established as a football league in 2001. Louisiana Lafayette was an Independent in 2000. As an aside: The Cajuns were 0-3 against I-AA opponents during that year. All three were Southland teams at the time.

[sharkeycox]

Without looking it up I'm pretty sure they have winning records against the OVC and the SWAC. Maybe there are others.

John, I think he meant against real football leaguesxsmiley_wix

[El Gato]

I didn't argue with you about what perception is. All I said is that perception is not necessarily reality. What we're talking about here is what the caliber of the Sun Belt as a football league is. And it's much more in line in those terms with the world of FCS than it is with the world of FBS. I don't even know how anybody could even seriously argue against that assertion with a straight face.

Correct, I was just chiming in on the other topic. But yes, using your statistics, it is difficult to argue that the Sun Belt is a quality FBS Conference. I would like to see more research on this topic to really in fact prove this point or not, but as someone else mentioned that is difficult to do. I'm guessing end of year Sagarin ratings will also be a good indication for this.

[JohnStOnge]

Correct, I was just chiming in on the other topic. But yes, using your statistics, it is difficult to argue that the Sun Belt is a quality FBS Conference. I would like to see more research on this topic to really in fact prove this point or not, but as someone else mentioned that is difficult to do. I'm guessing end of year Sagarin ratings will also be a good indication for this.

If you look at Sagarin ratings the Sun Belt has generally been been somewhat stronger than the Southland but within the range of I-AA/FCS leagues. The only time the Sun Belt finished rated higher in final Sagarin ratings than all I-AA/FCS leagues was 2002; its second year of existence. It finished at 58.72 while the highest rated I-AA conference (Gateway) finished at 57.25.

[theboro]

If you look at Sagarin ratings the Sun Belt has generally been been somewhat stronger than the Southland but within the range of I-AA/FCS leagues. The only time the Sun Belt finished rated higher in final Sagarin ratings than all I-AA/FCS leagues was 2002; its second year of existence. It finished at 58.72 while the highest rated I-AA conference (Gateway) finished at 57.25.

Our home schedule this year:
Memphis
Mississippi State
Western Kentucky
FIU
Arkansas St.
UL-Lafayette

Our home schedule next year
Minnesota
Austin Peay
Troy
FAU
North Texas
UL-Monroe

Our home schedule in 2011
Memphis
Georgia Tech
Western Kentucky
FIU
Arkansas St.
UL-Lafayette

We've hosted Virginia and Maryland in the last two years. Our attendance is solidly over the 20K mark. We've been on national TV eight times in the last three-plus seasons.

I'll take it.

[TexasTerror]

As much as the quality of the SBC in football is dogged, I'll reiterate - the rest of their sports are not bad at all. In fact, it's one of the best 'across the board' mid-major leagues in the country. Not only do they have mild success in hoops, but they do in baseball, softball (ULL - I know you Pokes know about that), volleyball, golf, etc.

If they went FCS, as has been suggested here and elsewhere - it hurts that. Significantly.

[JohnStOnge]

Our home schedule this year:
Memphis
Mississippi State
Western Kentucky
FIU
Arkansas St.
UL-Lafayette

Our home schedule next year
Minnesota
Austin Peay
Troy
FAU
North Texas
UL-Monroe

Our home schedule in 2011
Memphis
Georgia Tech
Western Kentucky
FIU
Arkansas St.
UL-Lafayette

We've hosted Virginia and Maryland in the last two years. Our attendance is solidly over the 20K mark. We've been on national TV eight times in the last three-plus seasons.

I'll take it.

Ok. Great. If you want a football program that gets on national TV but stinks in the context of the subdividion it's in, that's what you've got. And on the attendance: I haven't seen game televised from MTSU so I don't know if it exaggerates actual attendance like Troy does. But I wouldn't be surprised.

And the bottom line is that your boys play in a FBS conference that's 4-9 against the FCS Southland. You can issue all the "buts" you want but that's the objective reality. And your boys have never been able to even win that conference. Have they ever even tied for the title like the much maligned ULM program has?

[JDC325]

Ok. Great. If you want a football program that gets on national TV but stinks in the context of the subdividion it's in, that's what you've got. And on the attendance: I haven't seen game televised from MTSU so I don't know if it exaggerates actual attendance like Troy does. But I wouldn't be surprised.

And the bottom line is that your boys play in a FBS conference that's 4-9 against the FCS Southland. You can issue all the "buts" you want but that's the objective reality. And your boys have never been able to even win that conference. Have they ever even tied for the title like the much maligned ULM program has?

You know looking up attendance figures is pretty easy. Also the Sun Belt conference payout of 250K kills the SoCon payout so I doubt any Sun Belt teams are worse off financially all things being equal. Right now I sure a lot of programs were hurt by the economy a tad. Also, WKU is averaging about 10K+ more in attendance than they were being a powerhouse FCS team, not to mention the facility upgrades and huge increases in season ticket sales and booster membership.Why do folks hate it when a team moves up and darn near roots for them to fail around in the FCS world? Other than jealousy I can not think of another reason. For those that think so lowly of the Sun Belt and say they don't care about moving up they sure do spend a lot time taking unprovoked shots at at teams that do. I love to see the Boise's and USF's move and make something of themselves. I will never root against folks trying to prove themselves at the next level or gloat when they struggle.

[BEAR]

You know looking up attendance figures is pretty easy. Also the Sun Belt conference payout of 250K kills the SoCon payout so I doubt any Sun Belt teams are worse off financially all things being equal. Right now I sure a lot of programs were hurt by the economy a tad. Also, WKU is averaging about 10K+ more in attendance than they were being a powerhouse FCS team, not to mention the facility upgrades and huge increases in season ticket sales and booster membership.Why do folks hate it when a team moves up and darn near roots for them to fail around in the FCS world? Other than jealousy I can not think of another reason. For those that think so lowly of the Sun Belt and say they don't care about moving up they sure do spend a lot time taking unprovoked shots at at teams that do. I love to see the Boise's and USF's move and make something of themselves. I will never root against folks trying to prove themselves at the next level or gloat when they struggle.

True. Division II fans did the same thing when UCA announced the move to FCS. The messageboards were full of not-so-well wishers. Too bad not every transition is smooth. Most teams take the lumps in their move ups. UCA has been lucky in their on the field success. The logistics of the move have been difficult, but I'm glad we did it.

[Killtoppers90]

You know looking up attendance figures is pretty easy. Also the Sun Belt conference payout of 250K kills the SoCon payout so I doubt any Sun Belt teams are worse off financially all things being equal. Right now I sure a lot of programs were hurt by the economy a tad. Also, WKU is averaging about 10K+ more in attendance than they were being a powerhouse FCS team, not to mention the facility upgrades and huge increases in season ticket sales and booster membership.Why do folks hate it when a team moves up and darn near roots for them to fail around in the FCS world? Other than jealousy I can not think of another reason. For those that think so lowly of the Sun Belt and say they don't care about moving up they sure do spend a lot time taking unprovoked shots at at teams that do. I love to see the Boise's and USF's move and make something of themselves. I will never root against folks trying to prove themselves at the next level or gloat when they struggle.

Thank you JDC! That is probably the best way I have ever read as reasons why the venom against those that move up. I look fondly on WKU's time in (and still closely follow) the FCS, but those who constantly have to justify WHY we were better off or just vent their utter disdain for us doing so is just childish. It is like the old girlfriend you keep running into, reminding you of how much better off you were with her. It's just petty and sad. If you don't like the move, fine. Honestly I could give 2 craps whether you do or not. But I love it for MY team and could care less about your statistical reasons why you feel we are inferior. Just wasting your breath and showing your ass.

[UCABEARS75]

Thank you JDC! That is probably the best way I have ever read as reasons why the venom against those that move up. I look fondly on WKU's time in (and still closely follow) the FCS, but those who constantly have to justify WHY we were better off or just vent their utter disdain for us doing so is just childish. It is like the old girlfriend you keep running into, reminding you of how much better off you were with her. It's just petty and sad. If you don't like the move, fine. Honestly I could give 2 craps whether you do or not. But I love it for MY team and could care less about your statistical reasons why you feel we are inferior. Just wasting your breath and showing your ass.

I agree. Every situation is different. For example, I maintained for more than a decade that UCA would actually have more success competing in the Southland (D-1AA) than in the Gulf South (D-II) for several reasons.

Geographically we are well situated to get those athletes that do not get recruited for the SEC or Big 12 (in Arkansas and nearby states); we are the "only game in town" at the D-1AA level (discounting UAPB).

We could NEVER get those type athletes that N. Alabama and Valdosta State get in terms of D-1A "dropdowns" and D-1A quality athletes who do not qualify academically.

Therefore we not only have increased attendance, interest, media coverage etc. with our move up we also have been able to compete very well in recruiting and on the field performance.

As a fan of a school that is basically football only my desire would be for us to be at the highest level where we can compete nationally, and that is D-1AA. However, different schools have different agendas, etc.

[crossfire07]

"Why do folks hate it when a team moves up and darn near roots for them to fail around in the FCS world? Other than jealousy I can not think of another reason. For those that think so lowly of the Sun Belt and say they don't care about moving up they sure do spend a lot time taking unprovoked shots at at teams that do."

I don't think people "hate" it as much as they think it is stupid. what is the point of moving up if you can not compete? you bring up Western Kentucky which lost to UCA. the attendance numbers and all that money is not helping them compete on the football field is it? hard to say it is when they are still losing to FCS teams. we could look at a slew of other teams that were powereful in FCS before the move to the BIG TIME that are nothing more than a joke now.

[Killtoppers90]

I don't think people "hate" it as much as they think it is stupid. what is the point of moving up if you can not compete? you bring up Western Kentucky which lost to UCA. the attendance numbers and all that money is not helping them compete on the football field is it? hard to say it is when they are still losing to FCS teams. we could look at a slew of other teams that were powereful in FCS before the move to the BIG TIME that are nothing more than a joke now.

Well, first off, every team that has moved up has lost a game to a team from another Division - a game they should not have lost. As far as the money improving our level of play, that cannot yet be answered yet; we are 3 games into our first full season. And other teams being just a "joke" now, that is your opinion and you have your right to it no matter how asinine it might be.

[crossfire07]

In WKU's first FULL season but you had the transistion years and you lose the first game against a FCS opponent by 3 touchdowns at home. to me my friend, that is a joke.as a fan, I hope things get better for you. It has to be awful sitting in the stands watching that kind of stuff.

[Killtoppers90]

In WKU's first FULL season but you had the transistion years and you lose the first game against a FCS opponent by 3 touchdowns at home. to me my friend, that is a joke.as a fan, I hope things get better for you. It has to be awful sitting in the stands watching that kind of stuff.

It was hard to watch indeed, but I knew the transition would not be easy. I knew WKU would take a lot of lumps, this being a big one. Joke or no joke to the rest of the world, it will not always be this way. But I must give UCA props - they have a very good, senior-laden team (loaded with SEC transfers if I understand correctly), they are well coached and can beat any FCS team on "any given Saturday".

[UCABEARS75]

It was hard to watch indeed, but I knew the transition would not be easy. I knew WKU would take a lot of lumps, this being a big one. Joke or no joke to the rest of the world, it will not always be this way. But I must give UCA props - they have a very good, senior-laden team (loaded with SEC transfers if I understand correctly), they are well coached and can beat any FCS team on "any given Saturday".

Loaded with SEC transfers is not correct.

I have a copy of our roster in my hands, here are our D-1A transfers:

10 Zane Allcorn DB from Ole Miss (did not play to my knowledge)

14 Nathan Dick QB from Arkansas (2-3 with 1 int. in mop-up role)

17 Anthony Summers LB from Miss St. (has not dressed out this season)

25 CJ Chaten RB from Tulsa (has not played this season)

41 Jackie Hinton WR from Houston (has not played that I know of)

79 Rogeric Govan OL from Mid. Tenn (is playing in the rotation I believe)

64 Jake Jakel OL from Utah St. (is playing in the rotation some)

For the most part (for a team at our level) our recruiting is pretty heavy toward 4 year HS guys with 4-5 JC guys recruited per year to fill in gaps, and probably 1-2 D-1A drop-downs per year. Our true star players for the past several years have not come from the D-1A level but, of course, they are part of D-1AA football and we welcome them if they want to be at UCA and want to be part of our program and what it represents.

[Killtoppers90]

Loaded with SEC transfers is not correct.

I have a copy of our roster in my hands, here are our D-1A transfers:

10 Zane Allcorn DB from Ole Miss (did not play to my knowledge)

14 Nathan Dick QB from Arkansas (2-3 with 1 int. in mop-up role)

17 Anthony Summers LB from Miss St. (has not dressed out this season)

25 CJ Chaten RB from Tulsa (has not played this season)

41 Jackie Hinton WR from Houston (has not played that I know of)

79 Rogeric Govan OL from Mid. Tenn (is playing in the rotation I believe)

64 Jake Jakel OL from Utah St. (is playing in the rotation some)

For the most part (for a team at our level) our recruiting is pretty heavy toward 4 year HS guys with 4-5 JC guys recruited per year to fill in gaps, and probably 1-2 D-1A drop-downs per year. Our true star players for the past several years have not come from the D-1A level but, of course, they are part of D-1AA football and we welcome them if they want to be at UCA and want to be part of our program and what it represents.

Thanks for the clarification and good luck in the playoffs!

[UCABEARS75]

Thanks for the clarification and good luck in the playoffs!

Thanks, I will be rooting for ya'll the rest of the way.

We had a great time on the trip to WKU; beautiful stadium and very nice fans.

Our coach said that your coach was extremely complimentary as were a few of your players who congratulated him after the game.

BTW I missed one:

13 Jacob Bane MLB from U. of New Mexico (first year to be a starter)

[Gamecocks99]

Well, we'll see. The Sun Belt is an extremely weak FBS league.


Troy is down this year. But, Troy has not been weak over the last several years. Remember that No team has be Superman all the time. They have to be Clark Kent part of the time. This years FL State team is a good example xnodx True Overall they are not very strong. But hey every league can't be the SEC

[McNeese75]

Thanks for the clarification and good luck in the playoffs!

xrolleyesx Next year maybe xsmiley_wix

[BEAR]

Loaded with SEC transfers is not correct.

I have a copy of our roster in my hands, here are our D-1A transfers:

10 Zane Allcorn DB from Ole Miss (did not play to my knowledge)

14 Nathan Dick QB from Arkansas (2-3 with 1 int. in mop-up role)

17 Anthony Summers LB from Miss St. (has not dressed out this season)

25 CJ Chaten RB from Tulsa (has not played this season)

41 Jackie Hinton WR from Houston (has not played that I know of)

79 Rogeric Govan OL from Mid. Tenn (is playing in the rotation I believe)

64 Jake Jakel OL from Utah St. (is playing in the rotation some)

For the most part (for a team at our level) our recruiting is pretty heavy toward 4 year HS guys with 4-5 JC guys recruited per year to fill in gaps, and probably 1-2 D-1A drop-downs per year. Our true star players for the past several years have not come from the D-1A level but, of course, they are part of D-1AA football and we welcome them if they want to be at UCA and want to be part of our program and what it represents.

That's fantastic. I read on the Hawaii board that they almost lost to UCA because UCA has 45 FBS transfers.....lol...Isn't it amazing how you can change bad memories to fit your view of reality! xlolx Whateva Warriors! 45 transfers! NOT! xlolx

[UCABEARS75]

xrolleyesx Next year maybe xsmiley_wix

LOL, good catch 75. I didn't even notice that.