VMI Football Future

[JMU Duke Dog]

Here is their 2006 football schedule:
Sept 2 DAVIDSON
Sept 9 at Norfolk St. (VMI might be trying to buy out the location to Lexington)
Sept 16 at Richmond
Sept 23 at William & Mary
Sept 30 JAMES MADISON
Oct. 7 at Army
Oct. 14 COASTAL CAROLINA*
Oct. 21 at Charleston Southern*
Oct. 28 at Gardner-Webb*
Nov. 4 LIBERTY*
Nov. 11 at Citadel
*Big South Conference game

VMI also has former Georgia Southern coach Sewak in their potential pool of future head coaches according to today's Roanoke Times.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/wb/44174

Georgia Southern coach talking with VMI

Staff Reports

Former Georgia Southern coach Mike Sewak said Sunday he has been contacted by a VMI official about the Keydets' coaching vacancy.

Sewak, a former Southern Conference coach of the year, said he would be interested in talking more with VMI.

A 1981 graduate of Virginia, Sewak was 35-14 in four years at Georgia Southern. He led the Eagles to the 2002 Division I-AA semifinals but was fired last month after the team lost in the first round of the playoffs a second straight year.

[DinoDex200]

"VMI Football Future"

Shouldn't this be under the Top 20 Oxymoron's thread?? :p

[goasu984Life]

If Sewak takes the VMI job, at least he will know that the expectations aren't too high.

[Coastal89]

I see another 3 win season in VMI's future.

[SoCon48]

I see another 3 win season in VMI's future.

They ever reinstitute the selective service draft and you may have re-think that.
Plus, VMI has done something CCU hasn't done yet...beat ASU in Boone. :smiley_wi

[keydet71]

Plus, VMI has done something CCU hasn't done yet...beat ASU in Boone. :smiley_wi

Well, bless you "I-AA 2005" and BTW, best wishes against UNI....maybe it is my SoCon days or even further back to knowing the older ASTC, whichever, it is your time so don't blow it.

[catamount man]

Well, WCU is now at 10 games. We were supposed to play Liberty at that NOV.4th slot, but now that's gone. Heck, we were supposed to play them LAST SEASON and they dropped it. We just need to forget ever playing them in anything. Bad Karma with those guys. Would love to see Sewak AND VMI back in the SoCon. GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[Pard4Life]

Here is there 2006 football schedule:
Sept 2 DAVIDSON
Sept 9 at Norfolk St. (VMI might be trying to buy out the location to Lexington)
Sept 16 at Richmond
Sept 23 at William & Mary
Sept 30 JAMES MADISON
Oct. 7 at Army
Oct. 14 COASTAL CAROLINA*
Oct. 21 at Charleston Southern*
Oct. 28 at Gardner-Webb*
Nov. 4 LIBERTY*
Nov. 11 at Citadel
*Big South Conference game


No Lehigh?

Now we can't see VMI finish that upset :(

[Keydet90]

VMI football is seriously in jeoprady. This new coach and new staff may be our last shot at I-AA. However, despite 24 years of losing football, we still managed to average around 7,000 per game this year at home including two crowds (CSU and Citadel) of around 9K. Also, our annual giving to the athletic booster club is up $300K over this time last year. Not bad for a school that has only 1200 students and 15,000 living alumni. Still the cost of running the program, greater emphasis on the "M" in VMI, the ongoing war in Iraq and the constant losing are wearing down the resolve of the administration (if there ever was any) and frightening potential recruits.

We may stay I-AA in some form and keep occassionally playing (and losing) to traditional rivals such as W&M, UR, Citadel and an occassional tilt with one of the Academies and PL schools because at VMI football is more of a social event and an excuse to gather. Of the 6,000 fans we brought to the UR road game and the 9,000+ at the Citadel home game I'd say about 1,000 in each crowd actually gave a darn who won or lost. They just want to gather, swap war stories and see the big shots.

Long story short - if we are going to stay alive and have any chance in I-AA this coach and staff needs to be a good hire and great recruiters who can maximize resources. The facilities are on the way up (8 million bucks from Long and Foster for stadium), the schedule is good and there are other things going on too to make the I more attractive to all student athletes. I think this may be the end of an era if we are not careful and in five years you may see VMI drop football altogether. If they do it has been a good run but I'm not sure there is a place for a school with our small size, geographic isolation and limited budget in this day and age.

DP 90

[DFW HOYA]

I think this may be the end of an era if we are not careful and in five years you may see VMI drop football altogether. If they do it has been a good run but I'm not sure there is a place for a school with our small size, geographic isolation and limited budget in this day and age.


VMI won't drop football for the same reasons Army and Navy won't go to I-AA: the chain of command wouldn't allow it. Without football, enrollment drops further and at that point, then what?

That's not to say that the Big South is the final home for VMI, either. The Keydets could be competitive in PL football and if they joined that league for all sports, would get regular series with West Point and Annapolis in other sports.

[Keydet90]

Many would like to go Patriot if we could keep football scholarships. 35% of VMI cadets are on full or partial athletic scholarship and loss of schollies would seriously hurt enrollment in a number of areas. I am also uncertain if the PL schools would want a military shool in their midst although VMI would welcome the chance - does anyone think they would offer or would they want the Keydets?

DP

[vmisport]

I don't think there is any jeopardy of VMI deemphasizing football. Sure, the wins are hard to come by at military schools, but football is actually very important at military schools. At these schools there is not much/any real social life and the schools aren't and can never be "suitcase" colleges where students leave on Fridays to go to enjoy life at larger institutions. There are other schools which are much more likely to deemphasize than the Citadel or VMI or the academies despite the records. There will likely be a trend at VMI to play a little softer schedule as has been the case at the academies, but football remain very important in the life of the school. The attendance and the alumni giving are reflections of the importance. The school also is going to step up to get the very best coaching staff and give it a better opportunity for success. There are other schools (like Richmond flirting with PL), ETSU (dropped football), and many others who are much more at risk of deemphasizing football than VMI or Citadel. More wins would be nice though.

[chantman]

They ever reinstitute the selective service draft and you may have re-think that.
Plus, VMI has done something CCU hasn't done yet...beat ASU in Boone. :smiley_wi

I'm not trying to start anything here because I'm pulling for ASU this weekend, but here is my question. How many time to you think VMI has played you guys in Boone?

[Hansel]

. I am also uncertain if the PL schools would want a military shool in their midst
DP


Army and Navy are already in the PL for most sports except FB, I like the idea of VMI to the PL.

[Keydet90]

Chatman,

We played ASU in Boone pretty near every other year for better part of three decades, maybe more. I'm not sure the all time record but I know we beat them down there a few times and also at home a number of times. And I too will root for a former SOCON foe.

DP

[Go...gate]

:twocents: VMI would be a great fit for PL FB, even if VMI kept scholarships, as long as they within the conference AI guidelines. Even better if you were a full member - you would get to play Army and Navy in conference sports each year. PL teams would also welcome the trips to Lexington, which is a great campus and a nice college town (Washington & Lee and many other schools either there or nearby).

[DFW HOYA]

:twocents: VMI would be a great fit for PL FB, even if VMI kept scholarships, as long as they within the conference AI guidelines.

This is an excellent topic to discuss further--if schools offered football scholarships with the proviso that the AI was in place, why shouldn't the PL allow this? Not all PL schools would (or could) do so, of course, but if schools had the option to offer a mix of each, would it work?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

:twocents: VMI would be a great fit for PL FB, even if VMI kept scholarships, as long as they within the conference AI guidelines. Even better if you were a full member - you would get to play Army and Navy in conference sports each year. PL teams would also welcome the trips to Lexington, which is a great campus and a nice college town (Washington & Lee and many other schools either there or nearby).

My feeling is as well that VMI would be a fantastic addition to the PL in all sports. I am not 100% certain but I felt that VMI's "athletic scholarships" would fit nicely with the Patriot League's "grant-in-aid"-type scholarships, just like Army's and Navy's do in all sports except FB.

VMI would allow the Patriot footprint to go deeper south, VMI would get more exposure with Army and Navy in all sports, and the PL gets a like-minded institution that wouldn't break their existing scholarship mold. To me, it makes so much sense, it has no shot at happening. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is an excellent topic to discuss further--if schools offered football scholarships with the proviso that the AI was in place, why shouldn't the PL allow this? Not all PL schools would (or could) do so, of course, but if schools had the option to offer a mix of each, would it work?

A fine question, one that deserves its own thread. But does VMI really have scholarships like the traditional sense of the word? Army and Navy do not. Does it work the same way that Army and Navy's do?

[Go...gate]

I've always believed that we needed another FB school in the south to enable the conference to be more regionally balanced. The lost chance to have Richmond for FB was regrettable.

In many ways, however, VMI is the best fit of all for the Patriot League because they are size-compatible, already play two-three teams in the conference frequently (Georgetown, USMA and USNA) and also step up to play the stretch games that PL schools occasionally play against Division I-A schools. Could not help noticing that VMI played Georgetown and Navy FB last year, Duke this year and will play Army at Michie next year.

I, for one, prefer the idea of a W&M, Davidson, Wofford, Furman, VMI or Citadel in the Patriot League.

[Leopard's Claw]

I couldn't agree more- The I is close to my heart, & I would do back flips (pretty large "leap" for those that know me) if it ever happened....but the dynamics of travel alone create a potential nightmare....think of the distance/cost of flights/bus in and out of Lexington (fly into Charlottesville or Roanoake- then an hour's drive) combined with Hamilton (Syracuse?) and Worcester (Boston?) for 20 some teams...the Pa teams (and Navy) in the PL are all "bussable" (5hours), but beyond that it's a VERY long trip for a track,volleyball, basbeall, softball, soccer, etc teams that rarely- if ever- fly in the PL....on the other hand- and I never thought I'd say this- Go App State!

[Go...gate]

Most PL teams already have a southern swing OOC, and many southern teams have a northern excursion as well. For example, VMI is home and home with Army in BB this year.

[JMU Duke Dog]

Here was another article about the VMI coaching vacancy from The Roanoke Times:

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/college/wb/44306


Tresey applies for VMI vacancy

Joe Tresey was once Cal McCombs' secondary coach. He wants to return to VMI as McCombs' successor.

Tresey said Monday he has applied for VMI's coaching vacancy. The Ohio State graduate was a VMI assistant from 1999-2001 before leaving to become Akron's defensive coordinator for two seasons.

Tresey spent the past two seasons as Georgia Southern's defensive coordinator. He lost his job last month when Mike Sewak was fired as head coach after losing in the first round of the Division I-AA playoffs.

Sewak said Sunday a VMI official has talked with him about the Keydets' job. Sewak was at VMI last week, but he said he was not there to interview for the job.

"I'm interested, but I don't think that's going to end up working out," Sewak said Monday.

[Go...gate]

Seems to me that a Wing-T or Wishbone-type offense would be successful at VMI. Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but it has worked in many instances. Too bad VMI and the former GSU Head Coach could not get together.

[Keydet90]

To answer an earlier question, VMI does athletic scholarships exactly like every other DI school. Our graduates do not automatically incur a five year committment like Army and Navy - at those two schools everyone is on scholarship essentially. At VMI about 25% of cadets are on some form of athletic scholarship and they have no mandatory military committment although many voluntarily choose to serve.
Also, the Army and Navy scholarships are taxpayer supported wheras VMI athletic scholarships are supported almost entirely by donations and endowments (VA law prohibits using education funds for athletics). So the short in answer is yes, VMI scholarships are very different from the academies but they are almost identical to what you have at the Citadel.

DP '90

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One thing was really interesting about your post:


To answer an earlier question, VMI does athletic scholarships exactly like every other DI school. Our graduates do not automatically incur a five year committment like Army and Navy - at those two schools everyone is on scholarship essentially. At VMI about 25% of cadets are on some form of athletic scholarship and they have no mandatory military committment although many voluntarily choose to serve.
Also, the Army and Navy scholarships are taxpayer supported wheras VMI athletic scholarships are supported almost entirely by donations and endowments (VA law prohibits using education funds for athletics). So the short in answer is yes, VMI scholarships are very different from the academies but they are almost identical to what you have at the Citadel.

DP '90

So let me get this straight. Would this ruin the ideas of grant-in-aid should VMI or Richmond want to join the PL? Isn't a grant-in-aid in effect educational funds that are used for athletics? Unlike scholarship money where it is specifically for athletics?

This could change the dynamic of the argument. When VMI or Richmond is approached for membership to the PL, it MAY also mean allowing athletic scholarships as well - if this is indeed the VA rule.

Personally I am still tossed about allowing formal athletic scholarships in the PL. IMO, if they are allowed, there still must be something to set the PL apart from other leagues involving academic excellence. As of right now, grant-in-aid's seem to be attracting great athletes with very good academic profiles, which is perfect.

[Keydet90]

As I understand things, in many states there is state money and funding that can be used for athletic facilties and expenses to include scholarships - in VA this is not the case. Most PL schools are private so they don't get the state money either. I guess VMI could still use athletic booster club funds and donations to fund "grants-in-aid".

As to academic excellence, I dont' think VMI is quite on par with the PL in terms of required GPA, SAT scores, HS Honors and class rank....but, VMI has a bit different of a mission and it HAS raised it's academic standards greatly in the past few years. I would not be accepted today! :eek:


And BTW - it looks more and more like Reid from UR via Bucknell is going to get the job. I think they powers that be are afraid to touch Bill Stewart and Sewak may not be right fit. I mean look what he inherited and the edge he had. If he couldn't win at GSU how could he rebuild and recruit for VMI?


DP '90

[Keydet90]

The latest news is George Welsh (Navy, UVa) applied for the job. It is close to home for him so he wouldn't have to move and he is a former military man. I think he is too old for the job but then again Bobby Ross got Army 4 wins this season. I have to say that with Reid, Sewak and now Welsh plus Biddle from Colgate this is the most talented field ever to apply for the job that I can remember.

I heard Biddle withdrew his application after 'gate gave him a raise. Is this true?

DP '90

[DFW HOYA]

Personally I am still tossed about allowing formal athletic scholarships in the PL. IMO, if they are allowed, there still must be something to set the PL apart from other leagues involving academic excellence.

The PL leadership has never got past Rev. Brooks' argument that athletic success and academic success are mutually exclusive. Stanford certainly offers athletic scholarships and does very, very well in the class room. Use that as a model and the quality of PL recruits would be even stronger.

[DTSpider]

The latest news is George Welsh (Navy, UVa) applied for the job. It is close to home for him so he wouldn't have to move and he is a former military man.
DP '90

That would be a shocker. I can't imagine going from coaching UVA to coaching at VMI. However, the VMI coaching pool certainly does have some great names in it. Hopefully you can land a great coach and get the program turned around.

[DTSpider]

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128768729440&path=%21sports%21colleges&s=1045855934926

From today's Richmond papers

Keydets choosing finalists
Reid, formerly of UR, tops list of candidates for VMI's football job
Richmond Times-Dispatch
Thursday, December 15, 2005


The selection committee in charge of finding a new football coach at Virginia Military Institute is scheduled to meet this week and determine the finalists for the job.

One of the leading candidates for the position is believed to be former University of Richmond coach Jim Reid, who is now an assistant at Bucknell.

The only other known applicant is former VMI assistant Joe Tresey, who was Georgia Southern's defensive coordinator for the past two seasons.

Tresey lost his job when Georgia Southern coach Mike Sewak was fired last month. According to the Roanoke Times, Sewak has discussed the opening with an unnamed VMI official.

Other coaches mentioned in connection with the job are former VMI assistants Sam Eddy (offensive coordinator at Youngstown State) and Jeff Durden (offensive coordinator at James Madison), and Rod Holder (assistant head coach at Norfolk State).

Another coach whose name had been associated with the vacancy, Dick Biddle of Colgate, has withdrawn from consideration. Biddle is a former Virginia Tech assistant.

-John Packett

[colgate13]

Another coach whose name had been associated with the vacancy, Dick Biddle of Colgate, has withdrawn from consideration. Biddle is a former Virginia Tech assistant.

I don't know how serious this was, and was most likely done to put pressure on the powers that be for a nice, well deserved raise.

I've also heard that Buffalo came after him for their opening but he was not interested.

On the larger topic: VMI is a great PL addition, but like pretty much any other potential member (full or FB associate), we have to get over the last remnants of the stupid scholarship ban. When football programs are allowed (not forced mind you) to go to scholarships, our potential for growth increases greatly. And you can do it without sacrificing academics; actually, you can do it and INCREASE the academic prestige of the league. Colgate's figured that out. We're just waiting on the rest of the league... for now. ;)

[Keydet90]

The Welsh thing is all over the vmikeydets.com website. It's on the internet it must be true right :eyebrow: ? I think VMI needs someone who knows the northeast and the state of VA and someone with a little name recognition. Liberty did this a few years ago with Sam Rutigliano and made the jump to I-AA, Walt Harriss is in I-AA and Harbaugh helped do it for WKU. VMI needs to open up the wallet and hire someone whom recruits have heard of.

When is the next round of PL expansion anticipated? Is there room for expansion? VMI has talked of going non-sholarship for football like the other PL members but I'm not sure we could keep a viable program without offering scholarships given all the other challenges we face in recruiting.

DP '90

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Welsh thing is all over the vmikeydets.com website. It's on the internet it must be true right :eyebrow: ? I think VMI needs someone who knows the northeast and the state of VA and someone with a little name recognition. Liberty did this a few years ago with Sam Rutigliano and made the jump to I-AA, Walt Harriss is in I-AA and Harbaugh helped do it for WKU. VMI needs to open up the wallet and hire someone whom recruits have heard of.

When is the next round of PL expansion anticipated? Is there room for expansion? VMI has talked of going non-sholarship for football like the other PL members but I'm not sure we could keep a viable program without offering scholarships given all the other challenges we face in recruiting.

DP '90

To me, the Patriot League is ready for expansion anytime. Last year they rewrote their charter to specifically put language in there about pursuing new opportunities for membership, so I think our league is very open.

The scholarship issue deserves its own thread. Will the PL allow their members to pursue scholarships? Maybe is the answer.

[colgate13]

The scholarship issue deserves its own thread. Will the PL allow their members to pursue scholarships? Maybe is the answer.

Just one? There have already been several good ones!!!!

The FB scholarship issue is mulling around behind the scenes this year, but my sources say that Holy Cross (in the irony of all ironies) is adamantly opposed and Colgate (in another irony) won't let it drop. (If PL outsiders need a quick explanation: the PL lifted the scholarship ban in response to HC threatening to leave because of BB schollies. Colgate was the second to last PL team to relent).

I think the yeas/nays fall down this line:

Yea
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette (yes, I know, they haven't done BB yet, but they are looking right now, so a full jump if possible is what I envision)

Nay
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lehigh (based on what I am told - not speculation. I'm surprised at this as well. I think they'd be on board, but according to the DOE website, you're not spending as much as CU, FU and LC on football. Plus, the Joe Knight affair in BB is probably making a few people sour on scholarships.)

Undecided
Bucknell (but leaning towards yea. I expect them to announce a 'Colgate' like scholarship plan next semester; next fall at the latest. They've been poking around Colgate looking at what we do.)

[SmallCollegeFBManiac]

I have a son that is getting a lot of recognition for Football and Baseball from Division I-A and I-AA schools. My son, however, is planning on trying to attend VMI. We live in the Pacific Northwest (State of Washington) and we have no past connection to VMI. My son just wants a Military Education and a chance to play competitive football. He is excited at the possiblity of attending the Institute. I would assume there are many others just like him around the country. I would like to think that the future of the VMI football program is stable, at the very least.

[Go...gate]

I'm sure it is stable, as it has a long tradition and significant alumni support. I think the question really is what conference is the best fit for their athletic program generally. Selfishly, many of us (myself included) would be pleased to see VMI in the Patriot League.

Best wishes to your son as he matriculates at VMI!

[DFW HOYA]

I think the yeas/nays fall down this line:

Nay
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lehigh (based on what I am told - not speculation. I'm surprised at this as well. I think they'd be on board, but according to the DOE website, you're not spending as much as CU, FU and LC on football. Plus, the Joe Knight affair in BB is probably making a few people sour on scholarships.)


Sounds speculative on Georgetown, but most Georgetown sports don't offer scholarships at this point.

[Go...gate]

Lehigh is right to be concerned about the Knight affair. That tale alone is a damned good reason to be concerned about the abuse of athletic scholarships.

[rcny46]

I have a son that is getting a lot of recognition for Football and Baseball from Division I-A and I-AA schools. My son, however, is planning on trying to attend VMI. We live in the Pacific Northwest (State of Washington) and we have no past connection to VMI. My son just wants a Military Education and a chance to play competitive football. He is excited at the possiblity of attending the Institute. I would assume there are many others just like him around the country. I would like to think that the future of the VMI football program is stable, at the very least.

Has he shown any interest in The Citadel?

[vmisport]

he wants a good education

[Ken_Z]

Undecided
Bucknell (but leaning towards yea. I expect them to announce a 'Colgate' like scholarship plan next semester; next fall at the latest. They've been poking around Colgate looking at what we do.)

i think you are pretty much on target wrt Bucknell. the athletics review is a part of the developement of a comprehensive strategic plan. the basketball scholarship program has been succesfull in raising the academic profile of recruits as well as the on court competitveness.

latest i have heard is the target for completion of the plan is consistent with your timing estimates. a key aspect of the process will be testing the ability of the stated initiatives to generate the support to raise sufficient funds in the upcoming capital campaign. indications are the plan will be based on an assumed endowment of $1B following the campaign.

as for footbal scholly's, i have no insider info on current leanings. however, the school is commited to the PL and recognizes the need to strengthen the league. to me, this would argue for football scholly's if the other schools come on board.

[rcny46]

he wants a good education

That was a low blow.

[DFW HOYA]

he wants a good education

Walking on at Texas A&M would be another option if he is interested in a military education. The Corps of Cadets used to send one walk-on each year to the special teams, and during the Jackie Sherrill years, he developed an all walk-on kickoff team that actually did pretty well.

[vmisport]

yes but at VMI you're on a team in which everyone is in the corps of cadets, thus, all share the same military experience. Even The Citadel couldn't say that this year.