Casserly: Rams to Europe

[TexasTerror]

Can you imagine an NFL franchise moving to London or anywhere in Europe? Charley Casserly, the CBS NFL Today Show 'inside source' said that St Louis could be moving to London.

This begs the question - which US major professional league will venture across the big pond first?


"There is European money. There is interest in purchasing an NFL team and moving it to London. They're going to look into buying the St. Louis Rams, who are for sale now, or perhaps another NFL team. The Rams, by the way, are only contracted to be in St. Louis through 2014.''

http://blogs.tampabay.com/twocents/2009/09/shooting-from-the-lipmonday-edition-1.html

[onbison09]

What division would they be in? The travel would be terrible to say the least.

[DSUrocks07]

well, they're in the NFC West right now. With the Cardinals, 49ers and Seahawks. So travel is pretty bad to begin with.

[Cobblestone]

When the London Monarchs played in NFL Europe how was their attendance?

[UNHWildCats]

A couple ways this could work out.

* Teams scheduled to play in London each season starts their season a week sooner then everyone else and then can have an extra bye week during the season to be assigned following the London game.

or

* Go back to two bye weeks for every team with teams playing in London getting one the week after playing there.


* The London team has three trips to USA during season... 3 game trip, 3 game trip, 2 game trip. Still a disadvantage for them, but its better then making 5 or 6 trips.

[GeauxLions94]

well, they're in the NFC West right now. With the Cardinals, 49ers and Seahawks. So travel is pretty bad to begin with.

Wouldn't be surprised if they're the team that moves back to L.A.

[minuteman65]

I don't see how this could ever happen.

[PhoenixSupreme]

Kind of reminds me of La. Tech traveling to Hawai'i for WAC games or vice-versa

[th0m]

Ridiculous idea.

[NHwildEcat]

Let's hope it never comes to this...it would be terrible for the game...I can also see them moving back to LA

[89Hen]

No chance this ever happens. xnutsx

[Dane96]

Let's see them try to figure out the wages on this.

Unless the govt gave the NFL some exemption, either the player or the team (generally speaking teams pay taxes for foreigners in a balloon payment agreement) will have to pay the nearing 50% taxes on the wages.

The government is trying to crack down on the practice I have outlined above...so one of two things happens; players will request higher wages to offset this...but the teams couldnt afford this (and the higher wage is a mask at best)....OR...the league's teams will have to create some sort of stimulus for the players/teams in London.

Cant see how this would work.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

A couple ways this could work out.

* Teams scheduled to play in London each season starts their season a week sooner then everyone else and then can have an extra bye week during the season to be assigned following the London game.

or

* Go back to two bye weeks for every team with teams playing in London getting one the week after playing there.


* The London team has three trips to USA during season... 3 game trip, 3 game trip, 2 game trip. Still a disadvantage for them, but its better then making 5 or 6 trips.

These are similar scenarios I've heard. The other being a combo with 2 byes week for all teams and 2 US trips: essentially half season in US to star and finish in London.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Wouldn't be surprised if they're the team that moves back to L.A.

Sounds great if an owner pays for everything on their own. No tax dollars for football...just stupid for 8 games a year and a U2 concert.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

well, they're in the NFC West right now. With the Cardinals, 49ers and Seahawks. So travel is pretty bad to begin with.

pretty logical swap would be Dallas for London.

NY Giants
Washington DC
London
Philadelphia

Dallas
Arizona
SF
Seattle

[NHwildEcat]

pretty logical swap would be Dallas for London.

NY Giants
Washington DC
London
Philadelphia

Dallas
Arizona
SF
Seattle

I would love to play in the NFC West...6 wins guaranteed per season!

[gmoney55]

pretty logical swap would be Dallas for London.

NY Giants
Washington DC
London
Philadelphia

Dallas
Arizona
SF
Seattle

Would a team in London be worth breaking up the best division in football, both from a competition and rivalry standpoint?

[Hammerhead]

Is there enough interest in Mexico to have a team in Mexico city?

With the lease in the Metrodome expiring soon, I'm sure there will be more talk about the Vikings leaving Minnesota if they don't get new digs like the Twins and Gophers.

[UNHWildCats]

These are similar scenarios I've heard. The other being a combo with 2 byes week for all teams and 2 US trips: essentially half season in US to star and finish in London.
cant imagine owners would vote to allow a team they compete with to sit at home for 8 straight games with no travel... too much of an advantage.

[UNHWildCats]

Is there enough interest in Mexico to have a team in Mexico city?

With the lease in the Metrodome expiring soon, I'm sure there will be more talk about the Vikings leaving Minnesota if they don't get new digs like the Twins and Gophers.
Perhaps once and maybe again sometime. right now Im sure the NFL would be too concerned with the extreme violence down there.

[UNHWildCats]

Would a team in London be worth breaking up the best division in football, both from a competition and rivalry standpoint?
probably a long shot to move dallas from the East even though they should.

Maybe move Texans to NFC West and stick London in AFC South

[Ivytalk]

I don't see how this could ever happen.

Agreed.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

probably a long shot to move dallas from the East even though they should.

Maybe move Texans to NFC West and stick London in AFC South

Huh? To develop rivalries with Jacksonville, Indianapolis and Tennessee???? What's the rationale?

As for the NFC east it's pretty straight forward: there are more UK transplants in the northeast, especially NY and DC.


As for Dallas to the nFC west...pretty basic: use Dallas to boost the NFL in the west. And they are a central time zone team with 3 ET teams right now.


And yes, there is an argument to be made that Miami should be in the South, Indy in the North and Baltimore in the East with NYJ, Boston Patriots and Buffalo.

[UNHWildCats]

The NFL isn't going to move Dallas from its division just as it wont move Miami from its.... aint going to happen... moving Houston to the NFC West and London to the AFC South makes the next best logical sense.

[malibudude]

When the London Monarchs played in NFL Europe how was their attendance?


I was a Monarch season ticket holder in 1991. The Monarchs averaged about 40,000 at Wembley, or at the time about 50% of capacity. There is very strong interest in the U.K for American Football and a team would be very well supported.

As someone said earlier taxes for the players would be a tough issue as they will be taxed in the U.K and the U.S (with only a small exemption). Maybe the Inland Revenue would waive taxes on U.S players in exchange for other taxes/ concessions (maybe a ticket tax) from the owners.

[UNHWildCats]

I was a Monarch season ticket holder in 1991. The Monarchs averaged about 40,000 at Wembley, or at the time about 50% of capacity. There is very strong interest in the U.K for American Football and a team would be very well supported.

As someone said earlier taxes for the players would be a tough issue as they will be taxed in the U.K and the U.S (with only a small exemption). Maybe the Inland Revenue would waive taxes on U.S players in exchange for other taxes/ concessions (maybe a ticket tax) from the owners.
i never consider the tax ramifications. I would imagine something would need to be worked out as no player is likely to sign with a London team if they gotta pay taxes there and here.

A quick google search led me to see that the tax rate there is 40%. Assuming a payroll of $130 M the UK is looking at $52 M in taxes from the team.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

The NFL isn't going to move Dallas from its division just as it wont move Miami from its.... aint going to happen... moving Houston to the NFC West and London to the AFC South makes the next best logical sense.

I could not think of a less logical move.

You're taking about putting what would be the the 1st EU sports organization in a US league, in a division that would not include the NY market...even worse, perhaps the most stale markets from a marketing perspective in Jacksonville, Indianapolis and Nashville.

The NFL in Europe would be a HUGE move and one that would involve plenty of monumental changes. The emphasis on marketing would be the top priority as we're talking about building the long term stability of an entire sport on an entire continent.

If it means a team like Miami or Dallas moving to a more geographic sensible division which would have limited economic impact...all while increasing the chance of NFL success in Europe, that is where logic exists. I just think you're thinking very small about such a huge move by expanding the league to another continent.

[UNHWildCats]

I could not think of a less logical move.

You're taking about putting what would be the the 1st EU sports organization in a US league, in a division that would not include the NY market...even worse, perhaps the most stale markets from a marketing perspective in Jacksonville, Indianapolis and Nashville.

The NFL in Europe would be a HUGE move and one that would involve plenty of monumental changes. The emphasis on marketing would be the top priority as we're talking about building the long term stability of an entire sport on an entire continent.

If it means a team like Miami or Dallas moving to a more geographic sensible division which would have limited economic impact...all while increasing the chance of NFL success in Europe, that is where logic exists. I just think you're thinking very small about such a huge move by expanding the league to another continent.
I agree that the AFC or NFC East makes the most logical sense... I just dont see any scenerio where the NFL removes Miami or Dallas from either of those divisions.

Assuming the NFL does not make a move of either of those teams then the next likely scenerio would be the one I have pointed to with Houston

[bobcatfan06]

Never happen.

[GeauxLions94]

probably a long shot to move dallas from the East even though they should.

Maybe move Texans to NFC West and stick London in AFC South


Huh? To develop rivalries with ... and Tennessee???? What's the rationale?


Rednecks and Teasippers ... Coming up next on FOX NFL Sunday! xwhistlex

[Franks Tanks]

pretty logical swap would be Dallas for London.

NY Giants
Washington DC
London
Philadelphia

Dallas
Arizona
SF
Seattle

Dallas is in the NFC East because of tradition not geography.

The Rams should've never left LA in the first place--who moves to St. Louis anyway?

[Cobblestone]

Dallas is in the NFC East because of tradition not geography.

The Rams should've never left LA in the first place--who moves to St. Louis anyway?


To get away from a nuevo-riche city that had 2 NFL teams and supported neither.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I agree that the AFC or NFC East makes the most logical sense... I just dont see any scenerio where the NFL removes Miami or Dallas from either of those divisions.

Assuming the NFL does not make a move of either of those teams then the next likely scenerio would be the one I have pointed to with Houston

There obviously isn't a clearcut move that would make everyone happy. But in the end , profit and opportunity will dictate any move rather than rivalry. We've seen a number of traditional rivalries changed through divisional realignment over the years. And in time, new rivalries form. It wasn't that long ago that the main NFL rivalry was Dallas and SF...not NYG,WDC or Phi.

London would be such a big move that concessions would sadly have to be made.

As for Houston...I see them as a longer shot than Dallas. Why? Because the broadcast agreements with Fox and CBS enable viewers in the state of Texas to all get the AFC Houston game and NFC Dallas game televised locally. With Houston in the NFC, parts of the state would go longer get Dallas games televised.

When determining logic for pro sports, sadly, the #1 factor always has to be money...all other sensiblities come next. And the NFL wild likely project more long term success for the league and London (ain't gonna happen) if Dallas were moved since it would likely mean a boost to Az, Sf and Sea.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Dallas is in the NFC East because of tradition not geography.

The Rams should've never left LA in the first place--who moves to St. Louis anyway?

it was just a case of the city offering a new stadium (now too old) to poach. St. louis came close to landing the Patriots backed out in favor of Hartford to then blow them off last minute for a new stadium at Foxboro.

[Dane96]

There obviously isn't a clearcut move that would make everyone happy. But in the end , profit and opportunity will dictate any move rather than rivalry. We've seen a number of traditional rivalries changed through divisional realignment over the years. And in time, new rivalries form. It wasn't that long ago that the main NFL rivalry was Dallas and SF...not NYG,WDC or Phi.

I beg to differ. You look empirically, and no doubt those NFC East battles had the highest viewership and most meaning between the teams on a NATIONAL level.

Dallas and San Fran being a bitter rival? Not so much.

[Dane96]

it was just a case of the city offering a new stadium (now too old) to poach. St. louis came close to landing the Patriots backed out in favor of Hartford to then blow them off last minute for a new stadium at Foxboro.

That was media speculation- they never came close to leaving New England (and even the Boston area)...and I personally heard this out of Bob Krafts' mouth at a symposium I hosted.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I beg to differ. You look empirically, and no doubt those NFC East battles had the highest viewership and most meaning between the teams on a NATIONAL level.

Dallas and San Fran being a bitter rival? Not so much.

that's because of the markets in the NFC east...they are the biggest in the league so of course viewership is high. But if you put in London, the viewership would still be #1. Hell, you could swap in Jax for a team and they'd still have the viewership with the other 3 markets.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

That was media speculation- they never came close to leaving New England (and even the Boston area)...and I personally heard this out of Bob Krafts' mouth at a symposium I hosted.

the patriots had conversations with st. Louis. Those talks included a proposed dome stadium and relocation to the city. Sure, it was Kraft using the city to negotiate with MA, but the conversations were real. I was in the sports department at WMUA atthe time and remember us having some details of what was going on. And if MA had balked, who is to say the patriots would not have gone to STL.
Regardless, talks did happen and the details were made public. So it's a matter of semantics, sure. But the two parties did speak and a pitch was made

[BearsCountry]

It wasn't Kraft who tried to move the Rams to St. Louis, it was James Orthwein who owned them before Kraft. Orthwein was part of the Busch family.

NFL needs the Rams and Jaguars to move to Los Angeles. That way they could share a stadium like New York does, gives LA a NFL game each week. NFL chose Jacksonville over St. Louis and Baltimore for expansion, bc they need teams would move to those cities. Brillant move by the NFL's part bc it basically got the whole league new stadiums.