Indiana State one of two schools with african-amercan head coach and coordinators

[isutom]

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_234233945.html?keyword=topstory

[MSUBear42]

Who cares about color as long as they're the best coach for the job? Still, good job, sycs.

[gophoenix]

This is what bothers me about the skin color war. If we're all equal, then why is stuff like this news. Isn't it about performance anyway?

[appfan2008]

I agree... why does the color thing matter... shouldnt the coaches with the most merit get the job? we have a white coach and coordinators... does that mean we are doing something wrong? no we have the best people for the job... i am confident that we would hire a black person if that was the most qualified coach available...

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_story_234233945.html?keyword=topstory

Not true. The SWAC and MEAC have plenty of schools that fit that discription.

[SU Jag]

Not true. The SWAC and MEAC have plenty of schools that fit that discription.

They're talking about non-HBCUs. If you took HBCUs from the equation there arent a lot of black head coaches in college football. You would hope that in 2009 this wouldnt be news, but it is. For whatever reason schools are not hiring black head coaches for whatever reason, and that is still an issue.

[crossfire07]

For whatever reason schools are not hiring black head coaches for whatever reason, and that is still an issue.

All you have to do is look at the schools that are allowed to openly racially discriminate in their football program hiring process to see that not hiring someone because of their color does not work. those that are allowed to do so can not compete outside of their circle so why would any school outside of it want to practice something that they have already been shown it does not work? It is a stupid business choice and college football is a business. the merit is just not there for people to say that black coaches are not getting hired because they are black. I think they do not get hired because of their qualifications. If I had a business that had a multi million dollar budget I would want the best man for the job and one that is going to make my company perform, win and grow.If he is purple then so be it. it turns my account green :)

[gophoenix]

They're talking about non-HBCUs. If you took HBCUs from the equation there arent a lot of black head coaches in college football. You would hope that in 2009 this wouldnt be news, but it is. For whatever reason schools are not hiring black head coaches for whatever reason, and that is still an issue.

Uhm, go look at the stats of coaching at the Pro, NCAA, NAIA and High School level. As more and more ex-players are getting older, more and more are getting coaching gigs. This is all changing....

But to me, the fact that a comment like this is coming from the SWAC or MEAC fans humors me. Both of those leagues are bastions of state sanctioned discrimination.

[mrklean]

It is about skin color. IN the history of the SEC they have only had 1 Black head coach. Auburn had a chance to get Turner Gill,but we all now aht happend. I really wish the best man could get the job. But thats too much like right!

[SU Jag]

Uhm, go look at the stats of coaching at the Pro, NCAA, NAIA and High School level. As more and more ex-players are getting older, more and more are getting coaching gigs. This is all changing....

But to me, the fact that a comment like this is coming from the SWAC or MEAC fans humors me. Both of those leagues are bastions of state sanctioned discrimination.


Discrimination? Based on what? Point blank, black coaches are not getting hired. Take people like Charlie Strong and other guys that have done everything that they've been asked to do and still have not been hired as head coaches.

[TheBisonator]

All that matters to me is W's and L's, not skin pigment. Although I have noticed that InSU is revamping its football program dramatically, so that should be a topic of interest instead.

[SU Jag]

All you have to do is look at the schools that are allowed to openly racially discriminate in their football program hiring process to see that not hiring someone because of their color does not work. those that are allowed to do so can not compete outside of their circle so why would any school outside of it want to practice something that they have already been shown it does not work? It is a stupid business choice and college football is a business. the merit is just not there for people to say that black coaches are not getting hired because they are black. I think they do not get hired because of their qualifications. If I had a business that had a multi million dollar budget I would want the best man for the job and one that is going to make my company perform, win and grow.If he is purple then so be it. it turns my account green :)


There are many qualified black coaches, many. The NFL has done a great job over the past few years with hiring black coaches. But the NFL is a different business. At the college level you have many people with different interest making the hiring decision, its not like that at the pro level. ESPN did a show on the lack of black coaches at the college level a few months back.

[SU Jag]

From ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3695007&sportCat=ncf


Miles Brand Interviewhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dzlpibTh_A&feature=PlayList&p=25B3A0112ABD5DF8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=41

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

All you have to do is look at the schools that are allowed to openly racially discriminate in their football program hiring process to see that not hiring someone because of their color does not work. those that are allowed to do so can not compete outside of their circle so why would any school outside of it want to practice something that they have already been shown it does not work? It is a stupid business choice and college football is a business. the merit is just not there for people to say that black coaches are not getting hired because they are black. I think they do not get hired because of their qualifications. If I had a business that had a multi million dollar budget I would want the best man for the job and one that is going to make my company perform, win and grow.If he is purple then so be it. it turns my account green :)

xcoolx You do know LSU's DC and DB coach coached in the SWAC.

[gophoenix]

There are many qualified black coaches, many. The NFL has done a great job over the past few years with hiring black coaches. But the NFL is a different business. At the college level you have many people with different interest making the hiring decision, its not like that at the pro level. ESPN did a show on the lack of black coaches at the college level a few months back.

This is an unsubstantiated fact. In reality, only opinion unless you back it up with facts.

The deal is, people keep making this about race, but no one dares attack the other side of it. Maybe it is time to then?

The non-HBCU schools have a documented 50/50 makeup on avergage of the two races typically, maybe 65/35 depending on the school. A few articles found by doing a simple search on google news shows that most of the MEAC and SWAC teams are 90% one race. By your same argument, there are MANY qualified white and Hispanic kids playing football at the college level, however, the MEAC and SWAC abide by the same mentality that you are accusing the other schools of employing for coaching candidates (and still without backing it up). You can, at least, back up the makeup of all the teams in D-II and D-I when compared to the team makeup of CIAA, MEAC, SWAC or SIAC.

So how can you complain about one aspect while completely embracing it when it comes to your school's teams and student enrollment?

[Jaguar79]

This is an unsubstantiated fact. In reality, only opinion unless you back it up with facts.

The deal is, people keep making this about race, but no one dares attack the other side of it. Maybe it is time to then?

The non-HBCU schools have a documented 50/50 makeup on avergage of the two races typically, maybe 65/35 depending on the school. A few articles found by doing a simple search on google news shows that most of the MEAC and SWAC teams are 90% one race. By your same argument, there are MANY qualified white and Hispanic kids playing football at the college level, however, the MEAC and SWAC abide by the same mentality that you are accusing the other schools of employing for coaching candidates (and still without backing it up). You can, at least, back up the makeup of all the teams in D-II and D-I when compared to the team makeup of CIAA, MEAC, SWAC or SIAC.

So how can you complain about one aspect while completely embracing it when it comes to your school's teams and student enrollment?

That is totally wrong my friend. For the most part, HBCU's will offer any kid, but when you have been burned by the thought of society, i.e sending my white son to FAMU, Southern, etc., what should we do?

See, when integration started, you got the best white kids and began to get the best black kids. Fast forward to now .... in Louisiana, LSU gets the best of any race. If you are Johnny Q from Lafayette and Southern or Northwestern State are you only choices, what do you think has happened more times than not athletically or academically? At least our teams equally represent our students and fanbase.

How do you think your school's team would look if it had to resemble your student body?

[UAalum72]

So how can you complain about one aspect while completely embracing it when it comes to your school's teams and student enrollment?
Because one class of the schools (especially FBS) is where all the money is?

Saying 'we should just hire the best coach, white or black" yet they all turn out to be white, reminds me of 25+ years ago when a Dodger executive on 'Nightline' said well, there haven't been any black baseball managers because maybe blacks "just don't have the necessities" to be managers. Yet within ten years enough had been hired it was no longer news.

And was it Tony Dungy who would never have gotten an NFL interview but for the 'Rooney Rule' requiring a minority, not to be hired but just interviewed? It doesn't mean the people doing the hiring are necessarily racist, just oblivious that they're not really looking at the entire candidate pool.

[SU Jag]

Because one class of the schools (especially FBS) is where all the money is?

Saying 'we should just hire the best coach, white or black" yet they all turn out to be white, reminds me of 25+ years ago when a Dodger executive on 'Nightline' said well, there haven't been any black baseball managers because maybe blacks "just don't have the necessities" to be managers. Yet within ten years enough had been hired it was no longer news.

And was it Tony Dungy who would never have gotten an NFL interview but for the 'Rooney Rule' requiring a minority, not to be hired but just interviewed? It doesn't mean the people doing the hiring are necessarily racist, just oblivious that they're not really looking at the entire candidate pool.



Preach!xbowx

[gophoenix]

That is totally wrong my friend. For the most part, HBCU's will offer any kid, but when you have been burned by the thought of society, i.e sending my white son to FAMU, Southern, etc., what should we do?

See, when integration started, you got the best white kids and began to get the best black kids. Fast forward to now .... in Louisiana, LSU gets the best of any race. If you are Johnny Q from Lafayette and Southern or Northwestern State are you only choices, what do you think has happened more times than not athletically or academically? At least our teams equally represent our students and fanbase.

How do you think your school's team would look if it had to resemble your student body?

No, for the most part, HBCUs will not take any kid. I know from experience when one turned me down with a written response saying the program I was entering was geared towards minority students. The school shall remain nameless. However, another offered me a full band ride, they just didn't offer the program I wanted.

The simple truth is, HBCUs are emplying the same tactics you're accusing on everyone else.

It is a tired argument.... like you said, it is 21st century, when are people going to give it a rest. Integration happened so long before I was born it isn't even funny.

[D1scout]

How many HBCU's have white coaches? Anyone.xconfusedx

[Panther88]

How do you think your school's team would look if it had to resemble your student body?

Is anyone going to factually answer this question or do we have to find some primo examples? :D

Not everyone @ once. :D

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

How many HBCU's have white coaches? Anyone.xconfusedx

Savannah State for one

[gophoenix]

How many HBCU's have white coaches? Anyone.xconfusedx

SWAC - None
MEAC - Norfolk State
Ind - Savannah State

CIAA - Chowan (which isn't an HBCU)
SIAA - Clark Atlanta
D-II Ind: None

There you go, 3.

[Panther88]

How do you think your school's team would look if it had to resemble your student body?


Oh please forgive me. I forgot we're in an area of the web where there are intelligent white folx. :D Allow me to rephrase the original question.


"What would be the racial makeup of your alma mater's football team if it were to reflect the demographics of the alma mater?" :D

I'm sure we all agree that the demographics of the coaching staffs (very plural :D) is quite disturbing considering the number of minorities that participate in your alma mater's sports programmes. :D Especially in a sport such as mens and womens basketball. :D.... FOOTBALL... :D LoL xbowx

It's an amazing site I tell ya'. Watching 17-18 young black males playing during UnivMich/OhioSt et al larger FBS schools and there are 110,000 crazed paint splashed about their bodies white folx screaming and yelling @ those kids on the field.. and then the coaching staff which is 98+% anglo along the sidelines w/ the cameras panning to the actual "negro" recruiters who you'll see from time to time interact w/ the players as the actual coaches are screaming/yelling @ the poor kids as they leave the field. I wonder if this scenario is repeated @ the FCS level? :D Nah, can't be, right? ;)

Not everyone @ once. :D I know most should have a story to tell. lol

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Who cares about color as long as they're the best coach for the job? Still, good job, sycs.

I understand what you're saying and we hear this comment at least 67,000 times a week so how about send the writer Mr. Todd Golden at the Tribune-Star an email mentioning this. It's better than mentioning it on a message board that'll get you nowhere right? xconfusedx

[MSUBear42]

I understand what you're saying and we hear this comment at least 67,000 times a week so how about send the writer Mr. Todd Golden at the Tribune-Star an email mentioning this. It's better than mentioning it on a message board that'll get you nowhere right? xconfusedx

Isn't the point of message boards to discuss things? If we all just sent e-mails no message boards would exist.

[crossfire07]

xcoolx You do know LSU's DC and DB coach coached in the SWAC.

since I do not keep up with anything LSU, I have no idea who is on their coaching staff but I am sure they got their jobs based on their qualifications and not the color of their skin.

[crossfire07]

"What would be the racial makeup of your alma mater's football team if it were to reflect the demographics of the alma mater?"

who frickin cares? why does everything have to have a color? why can't they just be fans, football players, cheerleaders and so on?

[crossfire07]

Isn't the point of message boards to discuss things? If we all just sent e-mails no message boards would exist.

you mean email's that would not get read, just deleted? good post. xthumbsupx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

who frickin cares? why does everything have to have a color? why can't they just be fans, football players, cheerleaders and so on?

When college, loan and employment applications stop asking for you to "Please check your race" then it won't matter any longer. xsmiley_wix

[gophoenix]

When college, loan and employment applications stop asking for you to "Please check your race" then it won't matter any longer. xsmiley_wix

xrolleyesx

Those fields are optional and have been ruled as such by many court rulings in the country.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

xrolleyesx

Those fields are optional and have been ruled as such by many court rulings in the country.

Not when it comes to applying for college admission/applications. xnonox

[BEAR]

Hey there are a lot of benefits for checking the other box. I'm half and half. I have no frickin idea which box to check. I'm the other race.

1. Black
2. White
3. Hispanic
4. Native Samoan
5. Other...that's me! .......................and most everyone that is breathing. xmadx

[WestCoastAggie]

This will slowly die when all the old heads (Black & White & other) start getting called home. For some reason, based on their indivual (sp.) experiences, they each are holding on to the past. My Generation and younger ('78 - younger) aren't really color blind and aren't too affected on color. It's SLOWLY happening but you will see More Black Coaches at PWC's & White coaches at HBCU's along with a more diverse team.

[txphi592]

Not when it comes to applying for college admission/applications. xnonox

If anything, those fields are reverse discrimination against white ppl. It is easier to get into college as a non-white with similar grades.

To address another point, the qualifications for a coach, athlete, student, cheerleader, etc are all very different. Just because there are a lot of black players, does not mean that there should automatically be a proportinal number of black coaches. Coaching requires very stringent qualifications that takes many years of proven experience. These jobs are given out on merit, not color.

That is like me complaining about the lack of white football players, those recruiters must be racist...xrolleyesx

[UAalum72]

Coaching requires very stringent qualifications that takes many years of proven experience. These jobs are given out on merit, not color.

Yup, they may be able to manage baseball, and coach basketball and pro football, but Division I football, that's completely different.

[gophoenix]

Yup, they may be able to manage baseball, and coach basketball and pro football, but Division I football, that's completely different.

So what are you saying, that they are racist because there aren't many?

The real deal is you have to have people moving up the ranks. You don't start some fresh out at a D-I program as head coach, or NFL head coach, etc. There are more and more black coaches in D-III and D-II every year as experienced players have moved up from being players to assistants and high school head coaches. That means you have a ton of people, both black and white, gunning for these head coaching positions. Given that more and more positions in the lower ranks are black now, you'll see more and more black coaches moving up through our schools very soon. It is a matter of supply and demand of the resumes right now. Experience gets you at the top schools, as the lower guys keep geting experience, they'll be moving up and through in no time.

Another issue you have is that statistically speaking, as many more players are black, and 60-70% of the NFL, AFL, AIFL, NIFL and whatever FL league you talk about, many more of the experienced black players go on to PLAY pro, while many more white players go on to take intern and assistant positions throughout the country.

It isn't just a clear cut "they aren't hiring black coaches" issue. And if that is the case, then the HBCUs need to be called out for failing to hire white coaches and assistants by the same argument.

[UAalum72]

I specifically said it wasn't necessarily racist. Do all those jobs at HBCUs not count for experience when applying at PWCs? If it doesn't, and I'd guess the pay is lower at HBCUs, so why would an ambitious intern apply there?

I'd like to see your numbers that "many more" black players go on to play pro; regardless of the percent the vast majority of college players DON'T turn pro, and there would be hundreds available for coaching positions.

Even the SEC has been integrated on the playing field for almost forty years. Those first players are nearing retirement age now. How much more experience can they get?

[gophoenix]

I specifically said it wasn't necessarily racist. Do all those jobs at HBCUs not count for experience when applying at PWCs? If it doesn't, and I'd guess the pay is lower at HBCUs, so why would an ambitious intern apply there?

I'd like to see your numbers that "many more" black players go on to play pro; regardless of the percent the vast majority of college players DON'T turn pro, and there would be hundreds available for coaching positions.

Even the SEC has been integrated on the playing field for almost forty years. Those first players are nearing retirement age now. How much more experience can they get?

Look at the pro leagues worldwide, cross that with race, and the percentage in college. That is all the pro outdoor leagues, pro indoor leagues, the European pro leagues, CFL free agents and so on and you'll see the same pattern with race like you see for coaches with race. Right now, more pro guys are black while more coaching guys in the low level of coaching are white.

So if it is true that more coaches start out are white, while more players start out are black. Then chances are, more experienced coaches will be white by the choices of available of the experienced candidates starting out.

You are saying it is a racist problem. I am not saying it is or isn't, I am laying out possibilities why the system is as it is. What I am saying is, given the situation out there, how is it the HBCU's are over 90% coached by black coaches and then PWCs are 60% coached by white coaches (head and assistants) according to another article found in the google news feed?

[Panther88]

"What would be the racial makeup of your alma mater's football team/coaching staff if it were to reflect the demographics of the alma mater?" :D



This is toooooooooooo funny. lol xreadx I asked the almost IDENTICALLY exact question the NAACP posed to the ncaa regarding their hiring practices and like the idjits who run the plantation that is now (ncaa), there's nothing but silence here.

Some of us SEE (visibly) what's been occurring for the last 30yrs and it wreaks of a very foul odor. (stinky) :D

xreadx

[gophoenix]

This is toooooooooooo funny. lol xreadx I asked the almost IDENTICALLY exact question the NAACP posed to the ncaa regarding their hiring practices and like the idjits who run the plantation that is now (ncaa), there's nothing but silence here.

Some of us SEE (visibly) what's been occurring for the last 30yrs and it wreaks of a very foul odor. (stinky) :D

xreadx

So what you're saying is, football teams should be anywhere from 8-30% black depending on the campus. So essentially, affirmative action for sports? ie the best sports candidates don't get the offers because it is based on race? Is that what you want? but then again, you don't want the best coaches and the like hired, because, well, to hire the best means you're racist?

The plantation huh? So basically, racist comments from you sums up why things refuse to get better, ever.

The odor comes from both sides of this

[Panther88]

So what you're saying is, football teams should be anywhere from 8-30% black depending on the campus. So essentially, affirmative action for sports? ie the best sports candidates don't get the offers because it is based on race? Is that what you want? but then again, you don't want the best coaches and the like hired, because, well, to hire the best means you're racist?

The plantation huh? So basically, racist comments from you sums up why things refuse to get better, ever.

The odor comes from both sides of this

No, I never insinuated that the best shouldn't be hired, for they should be IMO.

However lol, like I asked earlier: "what would the demographic makeup of your alma mater's football team/basketball team(s)/track team et coaching staff look like if it reflected the current demographic makeup of your alma mater?"

It's quite sobering to see anywhere from 17-18 young men of color on the gridiron w/ a 98+% coaching staff @ a university, which has a stadium makeup that's 99.97% anglo, AND an undergrad popolous that exceeds 98+% anglo, 0.7% black, and <1.3% "other." :D That's the plantation I speak of. :)

If you require hard numbers, give me a minute or two and I can dig up some mighty fine examples. :D

[gophoenix]

No, I never insinuated that the best shouldn't be hired, for they should be IMO.

However lol, like I asked earlier: "what would the demographic makeup of your alma mater's football team/basketball team(s)/track team et coaching staff look like if it reflected the current demographic makeup of your alma mater?"

It's quite sobering to see anywhere from 17-18 young men of color on the gridiron w/ a 98+% coaching staff @ a university, which has a stadium makeup that's 99.97% anglo, AND an undergrad popolous that exceeds 98+% anglo, 0.7% black, and <1.3% "other." :D That's the plantation I speak of. :)

If you require hard numbers, give me a minute or two and I can dig up some mighty fine examples. :D

The plantation comment is just what you insinuated it to be. A very racist comment.... end of story.

Dig up any example you want, and I'll dig up an example to prove it otherwise.

[UAalum72]

Right now, more pro guys are black while more coaching guys in the low level of coaching are white.

So if it is true that more coaches start out are white, while more players start out are black. Then chances are, more experienced coaches will be white by the choices of available of the experienced candidates starting out.

You are saying it is a racist problem. I am not saying it is or isn't, I am laying out possibilities why the system is as it is.
NO, I'm not saying it's racist. But as long as the results exist, it will be a news story.

So why are there not more black coaches at low levels? The percent that go on to play at a higher level is not great enough to change the available pool to hire as coaches. Aren't most coaches former players? Are you going to argue that black players just don't want to be coaches?

Could it be that HBCU's have more black coaches because they pay less, whites don't apply to them because the pay is less, while blacks will take the jobs because they don't get them at the PWC?

[crossfire07]

This is toooooooooooo funny. lol xreadx I asked the almost IDENTICALLY exact question the NAACP posed to the ncaa regarding their hiring practices and like the idjits who run the plantation that is now (ncaa), there's nothing but silence here.

Some of us SEE (visibly) what's been occurring for the last 30yrs and it wreaks of a very foul odor. (stinky) :D

xreadx

Your statement offends people here that are living to make a difference and to make things better. plantations? wtf do you know about a plantation? you are talking about something your grandfather can't even tell you about. you are talking about stuff that happened back when your great great paw paw was still just a dripping down someone's wrist. I got some buddies at work that would ask you the samething even if you mentioned plantation in passing and I promise you would never bring up that crap again because they are living for today to make their own lives better and really don't give a rats ass about what happened way back then. does it mean that they don't care about their history? no it doesn't. they know you remember yesterday and prepare for today. If you wish to have those kind of discussions with your NAACP buddies then fine but don't speak it where people are offended by it.

[isutom]

hey guys...i only posted the link because i thought that it was an interesting story...i really didn't mean to start a social commentary.

[gophoenix]

NO, I'm not saying it's racist. But as long as the results exist, it will be a news story.

So why are there not more black coaches at low levels? The percent that go on to play at a higher level is not great enough to change the available pool to hire as coaches. Aren't most coaches former players? Are you going to argue that black players just don't want to be coaches?

Could it be that HBCU's have more black coaches because they pay less, whites don't apply to them because the pay is less, while blacks will take the jobs because they don't get them at the PWC?

Most coaches seem to be former players, which again, is why you see more and more minorities coming up the coaching ranks from high school into NAIA, D-II and JUCO. I am not going to argue that black people don't want to be coaches. but I will argue that more black kids make it to the pros than white kids and that those leftovers will start coaching careers earlier than the people who start out in the pros and then move to coaching afterwards (in other words, if you start as a coach out of college you'll have on average 3-6 more years of experience coaching by the time many players leave the pro ranks to start their coaching careers). is that the reason, no idea, but like I said, it is quite a possibility.

I just looked at HBCU coaching pay scales.
Savannah State - $90,000
Florida A&M - $225,000
NC A&T - $210,000

here's a link showing the Salaries for HBCU's at DI and DII public schools:
http://diverseeducation.com/artman/publish/article_10357.shtml

The median average in 2006 was $135,000. The median average for FCS $115,000.

For Instance:
Kevin Higgins, The Citadel, $135,858
David Bennett, Coastal Carolina, $201,353
Jerry Moore, Appalachian State, $160,000
Trent Miles, Indiana State, $102,000
Clint Conque, Central Arkansas, $122,000
Bobby Hauck, Montana, $128,000
Todd Whtiten, Sam Houston State, $102,000
Jay Thomas, Nicholls State, $92,000

That is just a sample. This stuff can be found easily, it is all public record. It seems that HBCU salaries are pretty on par with the spread of PWU salaries.

Not only that, quite a a few HBCU salaries are greater than FBS salaries:
Louisiana-Lafayette Ricky Bustle $174,250
Arkansas State Steve Roberts $169,655
Western Michigan Bill Cubit $168,000
Buffalo Turner Gill $163,000
Ball State Brady Hoke $159,220
Eastern Michigan Jeff Genyk $154,442
Kent State Doug Martin $150,200
Bowling Green Gregg Brandon $150,000
Miami-Ohio Shane Montgomery$139,500
Louisiana-Monroe Charlie Weatherbie $130,000

[JDC325]

It is about skin color. IN the history of the SEC they have only had 1 Black head coach. Auburn had a chance to get Turner Gill,but we all now aht happend. I really wish the best man could get the job. But thats too much like right!

A lot of non SEC teams had shot at Turner Gill like....SYRACUSE!! Come on Klean your my bud, but that is just a lazy cheap shot at AU. The guy had no Auburn or AL ties like the guy hired did. He has not proven much other than he can win in a crappy conference so far. If he continues winning I am sure NO SEC program would have a problem hiring him. Why do all other schools but AU get a pass for passing on him...location maybe?

[Panther88]

The plantation comment is just what you insinuated it to be. A very racist comment.... end of story.

Dig up any example you want, and I'll dig up an example to prove it otherwise.



Percent of undergraduate enrollment by race/ethnicity
Non-resident alien 9%
Black non-Hispanic 3%
American Indian or Alaskan Native 0%
Asian or Pacific Islander 12%
Hispanic 12%
White non-Hispanic 63%
Other 1%

Specifically, Black Non-Hispanic 754(men) + 1,181(women) = 1,935 (total)

*couldn't locate the 411 on the total number of blacks who participate in the athletic dept but if I post a pic of the football team, you'll get the picture, literally xlolx *


I started @ "home" w/ my findings: ut-austin. :)

Well, that certainly doesn't look like 3% to me. :D

I'll move out towards aTm next, if you desire or rebut w/ ur proof otherwise. :)

[gophoenix]

I started @ "home" w/ my findings: ut-austin. :)

Well, that certainly doesn't look like 3% to me. :D

I'll move out towards aTm next, if you desire or rebut w/ ur proof otherwise. :)

I understand what you are proving here. But you also said



It's quite sobering to see anywhere from 17-18 young men of color on the gridiron w/ a 98+% coaching staff @ a university, which has a stadium makeup that's 99.97% anglo, AND an undergrad popolous that exceeds 98+% anglo, 0.7% black, and <1.3% "other." That's the plantation I speak of.


The team looks 32% black by my count. Whoever the white shirts are, 7 our of 32 are black, or 26%. What you claimed was 98% white coaching staff, 99% anglo in the stadium (which no one can say as no one takes demographics on ticket buyers), and undergrad that is 98% white. So, with that, are above argument disproves your point in those simple demographics.

Now, if we go by your curent assumption, where you claim 98% anglo. Well, you can't prove that either as anglo refers to people of descent of the anglo-saxon, so you are also leaving out people of Latin descent, the Balcans, Slavs, Germanic and Scandinavians. Unless that is really what you were going for.

Never said I wasn't going to rebut the line where football demographics typically don't match....

I'll start nearby
http://www.ncataggies.com/Football/roster09.htm
1 white person
1 asian person
0 white coaches

A&T Demographics
Percent of undergraduate enrollment by race/ethnicity
Non-resident alien 1%
Black non-Hispanic 86%
American Indian or Alaskan Native 0%
Asian or Pacific Islander 1%
Hispanic 0%
White non-Hispanic 12%
Other 0%




Next.

[Panther88]

I understand what you are proving here. But you also said



The team looks 32% black by my count. Whoever the white shirts are, 7 our of 32 are black, or 26%. What you claimed was 98% white coaching staff, 99% anglo in the stadium (which no one can say as no one takes demographics on ticket buyers), and undergrad that is 98% white. So, with that, are above argument disproves your point in those simple demographics.

Now, if we go by your curent assumption, where you claim 98% anglo. Well, you can't prove that either as anglo refers to people of descent of the anglo-saxon, so you are also leaving out people of Latin descent, the Balcans, Slavs, Germanic and Scandinavians. Unless that is really what you were going for.

Never said I wasn't going to rebut the line where football demographics typically don't match....

I'll start nearby
http://www.ncataggies.com/Football/roster09.htm
1 white person
1 asian person
0 white coaches

A&T Demographics
Percent of undergraduate enrollment by race/ethnicity
Non-resident alien 1%
Black non-Hispanic 86%
American Indian or Alaskan Native 0%
Asian or Pacific Islander 1%
Hispanic 0%
White non-Hispanic 12%
Other 0%




Next.

I really wished I'd posted what your next move would be when I created that last response. I was dead on 100% (list an HBCU and it's staff). Good job. xreadx

BTW, don't let the "recruiters" of color in the white shirts xreadx fool you into thinking that they're a factual part of the ut-austin core coaching[/'b] staff when their TOP priority is to recruit & retain. xreadx http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/coaches-bios.html Funny how those "coaches" lol of color have some type of tie-in w/ HS recruiting huh? :D Check it: (their titles lol)
Recruiting Coordinator/Tight Ends lol (recruiter)
Defensive Ends (valid)
Assistant Recruiting Coordinator/Wide Receivers lol (recruiter)
Associate Athletics Director for Football Operations lol (fancy title for recruiter)
Assistant Athletics Director for Strength & Conditioning (valid)
Director of High School Relations and Player Development lol (recruiter)
Assistant Athletics Director for Football Operations lol (fancy title for recruiter lol)

Those folx ^^^^^ are not part of the CORE coaching staff. xreadx Welp, lets give equal access to the other coaches and their titles:
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers
Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Backs
Assistant Head Coach/Running Backs
Associate Head Coach/Offensive Line
Defensive Tackles/Special Teams Coordinator
Graduate Assistant (Offense)
Graduate Assistant (Defense)

We're (this community) well aware that most PWCUs [b]must lol have some type of black or person of color on staff that makes "inroads," so to speak, into certain black communities (i.e., recruiter). Their responsibility is to recruit and help w/ retention of kids of color. That's not a secret, fyi. :) You're more than welcome to look up other PWCU's coaching "staff" lol and view it for yourself. Quite a few will have "recruiter" (in some fashion) tied to their "coaching" lol title.

Also, lets not get into dna-specific ethnicity because it's a given that all have some type of ethnic mixture in their background. Black/white/mexican/other, like our great fed gov does :D. KISS (Keep It Simp... feel me?) Lastly, I attended Ohio St for a brief few and saw the inner workings of big-time ball and how things "work" for all kids irrespective of race. I've always been interested in issues such as this since HS (athletics vs academics @ the collegiate level). I'll post the other flagship's stuff soon. I'm sure it's even more mind-boggling excepting they have a higher percentage of mexican than ut-austin and probably more blacks as well (greater percentage). :)

[gophoenix]

I really wished I'd posted what your next move would be when I created that last response. I was dead on 100% (list an HBCUb and it's staff). Good job. xreadx

BTW, don't let the "recruiters" of color in the white shirts xreadx fool you into thinking that they're a factual part of the ut-austin core coaching[/'b] staff when their TOP priority is to recruit & retain. xreadx http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/coaches-bios.html Funny how those "coaches" lol of color have some type of tie-in w/ HS recruiting huh? :D Check it: (their titles lol)
Recruiting Coordinator/Tight Ends lol (recruiter)
Defensive Ends (valid)
Assistant Recruiting Coordinator/Wide Receivers lol (recruiter)
Associate Athletics Director for Football Operations lol (fancy title for recruiter)
Assistant Athletics Director for Strength & Conditioning (valid)
Director of High School Relations and Player Development lol (recruiter)
Assistant Athletics Director for Football Operations lol (fancy title for recruiter lol)

Those folx ^^^^^ are not part of the CORE coaching staff. xreadx Welp, lets give equal access to the other coaches and their titles:
Head Coach
Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers
Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Backs
Assistant Head Coach/Running Backs
Associate Head Coach/Offensive Line
Defensive Tackles/Special Teams Coordinator
Graduate Assistant (Offense)
Graduate Assistant (Defense)

We're (this community) well aware that most PWCUs [b]must lol have some type of black or person of color on staff that makes "inroads," so to speak, into a certain black communities (i.e., recruiter). Their responsibility is to recruit and help w/ retention of kids of color. That's not a secret, fyi. :) You're more than welcome to look up other PWCU's coaching "staff" lol and view it for yourself. Quite a few will have "recruiter" (in some fashion) tied to their "coaching" lol title.

Also, lets not get into dna-specific ethnicity because it's a given that all have some type of ethnic mixture in their background. Black/white/mexican/other, like our great fed gov does :D. KISS (Keep It Simp... feel me?) Lastly, I attended Ohio St for a brief few and saw the inner workings of big-time ball and how things "work" for all kids irrespective of race. I've always been interested in issues such as this since HS (athletics vs academics @ the collegiate level). I'll post the other flagship's stuff soon. I'm sure it's even more mind-boggling excepting they have a higher percentage of mexican than ut-austin and probably more blacks as well (greater percentage). :)

But this is what its all about. YOU are calling PWCUs racist for having teams that are 30-50% black while student enrollment is anywhere from 5-20% black. You are also accusing the same of having coaching staff (I don't care if they are recruiters or not, they are part of the staff, most of which non-FBS schools do not have). The argument started by a racist article, which is what it is: an article based solely on race. To which you started talking about PWCUs and I started talking about HBCUs to counter all the arguments.

The truth is, whether you believe the argument or not. What you are claiming about PWCUs is not as bad as HBCUs. At an HBCU, it isn't often that you see white coaches. And outside of kickers and punters, you rarely see a white player. You don't see white recruiters. And given that most HBCU enrollment now is 10% or more white, how is it that 1-2% of the team isn't white then? I have no problem with HBCUs, I have a problem with the constant whining about the lack of some situation, when the HBCUs make the problem worse by taking the other extreme and enhancing it (ie that means take one racial extreme and basically having 0 people of other races both players and coaches).

So, let's try and look at it another way then.

Elon
20% of the coaching and support staff is black
11% of the coach staff is black
18% of the student population is black
30% of the football team is black

Higher than the student body, but far less than what you claim in every aspect of the argument. And we are what people term "a white rich private school" ... The term "recruiter" is tied to every coaching position employed at the school, even the head coach. Every coach has a region they recruit from primarily (one is even dedicated to Canada).

East Carolina
25% of the full coaching and support staff is black
20% of the coach staff is black
20% of the student population is black
48% of the football team is black

Still not what you are claiming either.

[Panther88]

Okay... I don't have this stuff memorized, obviously.



Ethnicity (undergraduate only)
White - 29,363
Black - 1215 lol
Hispanic - 5,188
Asian - 1,759
American Indian - 222
International - 578
Unknown/Other - 105


Those are aTm's #s from 2008 (fall semester reporting). Look @ that... a whopping 1215 "black" of which I'll bet > 4-10% are student-athletes. lol Haven't seen reporting information substantiating my claim though.

[Panther88]

But this is what its all about. YOU are calling PWCUs racist for having teams that are 30-50% black while student enrollment is anywhere from 5-20% black. You are also accusing the same of having coaching staff (I don't care if they are recruiters or not, they are part of the staff, most of which non-FBS schools do not have). The argument started by a racist article, which is what it is: an article based solely on race. To which you started talking about PWCUs and I started talking about HBCUs to counter all the arguments.

The truth is, whether you believe the argument or not. What you are claiming about PWCUs is not as bad as HBCUs. At an HBCU, it isn't often that you see white coaches. And outside of kickers and punters, you rarely see a white player. You don't see white recruiters. And given that most HBCU enrollment now is 10% or more white, how is it that 1-2% of the team isn't white then? I have no problem with HBCUs, I have a problem with the constant whining about the lack of some situation, when the HBCUs make the problem worse by taking the other extreme and enhancing it (ie that means take one racial extreme and basically having 0 people of other races both players and coaches).

So, let's try and look at it another way then.

Elon
20% of the coaching and support staff is black
11% of the coach staff is black
18% of the student population is black
30% of the football team is black

Higher than the student body, but far less than what you claim in every aspect of the argument. And we are what people term "a white rich private school" ... The term "recruiter" is tied to every coaching position employed at the school, even the head coach. Every coach has a region they recruit from primarily (one is even dedicated to Canada).

East Carolina
25% of the full coaching and support staff is black
20% of the coach staff is black
20% of the student population is black
48% of the football team is black

Still not what you are claiming either.

No gophoenix. I never even said the word "racist." Check my posts out prior ^^^^^^^. The only thing I'd even insinuated is that a valid question regarding demographics/makeup of total university (undergrad) vs coaching staff vs actual student-athletes was lop-sided and quite disproportionate, and it is.

[gophoenix]

No gophoenix. I never even said the word "racist." Check my posts out prior ^^^^^^^. The only thing I'd even insinuated is that a valid question regarding demographics/makeup of total university (undergrad) vs coaching staff vs actual student-athletes was lop-sided and quite disproportionate, and it is.

xrolleyesx

The plantation comment was racist. End of story.

What you claimed were outlandish tales of a clearly near 100% majority of whites in total coaching staffs, total white attendance, total white school, while a black majority team.

I countered saying that you statement, while true for HBCUs in makeup of teams, attendance and coaching staff might be true for one race; that your claim was completely unfounded where PWCUs were concerned. And I told you I'd prove you wrong with every example you gave.

So far, you've given no example of your claims. You can't back up demographics of attendance. And I have already given two examples of PWCUs that have high minority demographics than you claimed, have a much more proportionate football team makeup and in both cases, the coaching staff lines up with the demographics of the campus.

So, I say again.... you want racism, point the finger at HBCUs who have white team members that is far BELOW the demographics of the school (and virtually no white coaches, PERIOD) or you can have demographics at PWCUs, where in most cases, the football team is around +10-15% of what the campus makeup is.

Here's another example
Davidson:
Black Coaches: 12.5% minority (0% black)
Black student population: 8%
Black football team: 6.5%

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Percent of undergraduate enrollment by race/ethnicity
Non-resident alien 9%
Black non-Hispanic 3%
American Indian or Alaskan Native 0%
Asian or Pacific Islander 12%
Hispanic 12%
White non-Hispanic 63%
Other 1%

Hey Panther88, where did you get those figures from 1972? xconfusedx

Somebody posted that applications no longer ask the applicant for race/ethnicity any more because of changes in the law.

I think you are lying Panther88. xnonox

[Panther88]

xrolleyesx

The plantation comment was racist. End of story.

What you claimed were outlandish tales of a clearly near 100% majority of whites in total coaching staffs, total white attendance, total white school, while a black majority team.

I countered saying that you statement, while true for HBCUs in makeup of teams, attendance and coaching staff might be true for one race; that your claim was completely unfounded where PWCUs were concerned. And I told you I'd prove you wrong with every example you gave.

So far, you've given no example of your claims. You can't back up demographics of attendance. And I have already given two examples of PWCUs that have high minority demographics than you claimed, have a much more proportionate football team makeup and in both cases, the coaching staff lines up with the demographics of the campus.

So, I say again.... you want racism, point the finger at HBCUs who have white team members that is far BELOW the demographics of the school (and virtually no white coaches, PERIOD) or you can have demographics at PWCUs, where in most cases, the football team is around +10-15% of what the campus makeup is.

Here's another example
Davidson:
Black Coaches: 12.5% minority (0% black)
Black student population: 8%
Black football team: 6.5%

UR funny. But I'll play this silly game because I'm bored @ work. :D

How many D-I colls/univs are there participating in ncaa football? 317 or thereabouts? Your argument of "onesies" and "twosies" is almost laughable, in itself considering there are well over 300+ participating colls/univs. lol And then to bring HBCUs into the picture is ridiculously laughable, considering their history, IMO. Also, if I were to assume the picture you're stating is true, why is the ncaa so pro-active all of a sudden w/ hiring practices recommending minorities @ the HC et al positions? Since you have that great answer I'd strongly suggest you pkg it & patent it because you'll provide an ans that even THEY do not have a valid response to.

To refute the FACTs that an ohio state, univ of michigan, univ of inidiana, et al members of the big 10, big xii, sec, et numerous other D-Is have disproportionate demographics relating their athletic-students VS their OVERALL student population/COACHING STAFF/and because I feel like it and certainly there's no proof of it because I'm sure they - the powers that be - do not demographic ticket purchasers lol, even their OVERALL FANBASE is continuing to live in that little "white" world w/ the "white" colored glasses that refuse to acknowledge the disporporationate ratio. Or, are ppl like myself and I'll give you a mighty fine example from someone some of you ppl respect lol, Kellen Winslow, Sr. I'm sure you're aware of why he steered his son to the "U." xreadx (his statements regarding what I'm stating).

You refuse to acknowledge that an overall demographic ratio of 2-3% total populous being black is a-okay while having >30-40% of the football team being black @ a university's whose overall undergrad population exceeds 30,000 students is borderline sickening and it wreaks of stinch (funk) considering that it's alleged "educated" folx here. I don't care who thinks what is racist and how they recv it. I never spoke the word, you did. I did speak the word "plantation" because I see toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many similiarities. Don't try to find logic in it because just like YOUR predecessors, you can't see the error of your thought process (their ways). xreadx

Plz allow me to find some nice quality pix of "The Big House" or "The Horse Shoe" lol and tell us what you DO NOT see in the stands. xlolx Or, along the sidelines. xlolx And, what you do see on the playing field @ any one moment in time. xlolx

2 fun-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D

[Panther88]

Hey Panther88, where did you get those figures from 1972? xconfusedx

Somebody posted that applications no longer ask the applicant for race/ethnicity any more because of changes in the law.

I think you are lying Panther88. xnonox

I'm sorry, I went to aTm-Bryan/College Station's official university site to retrieve them. lol

Yeh, I read where they (aTm) have this huge deal going on w/ student-admittance (& retention of minorities xreadx ) and who they're TARGETING (hint-hint LMAO!) to increase "diversity" about their campus. ::insert retarded looking smiley here::

gophoenix will not give into the machine and admit there's something wrong. I guess the ncaa is wrong for being "proactive" huh? lol

[gophoenix]

UR funny. But I'll play this silly game because I'm bored @ work. :D

How many D-I colls/univs are there participating in ncaa football? 317 or thereabouts? Your argument of "onesies" and "twosies" is almost laughable, in itself considering there are well over 300+ participating colls/univs. lol And then to bring HBCUs into the picture is ridiculously laughable, considering their history, IMO. Also, if I were to assume the picture you're stating is true, why is the ncaa so pro-active all of a sudden w/ hiring practices recommending minorities @ the HC et al positions? Since you have that great answer I'd strongly suggest you pkg it & patent it because you'll provide an ans that even THEY do not have a valid response to.

To refute the FACTs that an ohio state, univ of michigan, univ of inidiana, et al members of the big 10, big xii, sec, et numerous other D-Is have disproportionate demographics relating their athletic-students VS their OVERALL student population/COACHING STAFF/and because I feel like it and certainly there's no proof of it because I'm sure they - the powers that be - do not demographic ticket purchasers lol, even their OVERALL FANBASE is continuing to live in that little "white" world w/ the "white" colored glasses that refuse to acknowledge the disporporationate ratio. Or, are ppl like myself and I'll give you a mighty fine example from someone some of you ppl respect lol, Kellen Winslow, Sr. I'm sure you're aware of why he steered his son to the "U." xreadx (his statements regarding what I'm stating).

You refuse to acknowledge that an overall demographic ratio of 2-3% total populous being black is a-okay while having >30-40% of the football team being black @ a university's whose overall undergrad population exceeds 30,000 students is borderline sickening and it wreaks of stinch (funk) considering that it's alleged "educated" folx here. I don't care who thinks what is racist and how they recv it. I never spoke the word, you did. I did speak the word "plantation" because I see toooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many similiarities. Don't try to find logic in it because just like YOUR predecessors, you can't see the error of your thought process (their ways). xreadx

Plz allow me to find some nice quality pix of "The Big House" or "The Horse Shoe" lol and tell us what you DO NOT see in the stands. xlolx Or, along the sidelines. xlolx And, what you do see on the playing field @ any one moment in time. xlolx

2 fun-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D

No.

What you said was Division I and more importantly NCAA in general. See, every time I refute what you say, you narrow it down more and more. I don't care about BCS schools, I care about how this applies to FCS schools, where you made you original comment about a stench. I care about disputing your claim as it is related to FCS, non-BCS schools, D-II or whatever else you want to paint it as. The truth is, you grossly misrepresented everything you want to say.

Everything you have whined about, so far, I can pick nearly every FCS school and shoot it down. I picked one or two out here and there, and low and behold, none of them fit the mold you made all the PWCUs.

So far, the only FCS and D-II schools that even come close to fitting the mold that _YOU_ made are the HBCUs, that again, have a relative 10-15% white population base while the football teams have a token kicker or punter and the coaching staff itself is lucky to have one white person. I don't care about "the history of HBCUs" this is 2009 and that stench that you accuse BCS schools with applies just as much to the HBCU schools.

So, I am sorry that you are so blatantly wrong with making the claim you did. So far, maybe what, 60 of the 260 D-I programs fit your mold. That is hardly the deal you made it out to be.....

And seriously, I am arguing YOUR points here, stop with the racist insinuations in your response. My predecessors? WTH does that mean, you have no idea if I am white, black, asian or anything else. You only know I went to Elon.

It is not that I am failing to give in to the machine, just that your "opinion" of demographics doesn't line up with the facts, at least in FCS, D-II and lower FBS.

[Panther88]

No.

What you said was Division I and more importantly NCAA in general. See, every time I refute what you say, you narrow it down more and more. I don't care about BCS schools, I care about how this applies to FCS schools, where you made you original comment about a stench. I care about disputing your claim as it is related to FCS, non-BCS schools, D-II or whatever else you want to paint it as. The truth is, you grossly misrepresented everything you want to say.

Everything you have whined about, so far, I can pick nearly every FCS school and shoot it down. I picked one or two out here and there, and low and behold, none of them fit the mold you made all the PWCUs.

So far, the only FCS and D-II schools that even come close to fitting the mold that _YOU_ made are the HBCUs, that again, have a relative 10-15% white population base while the football teams have a token kicker or punter and the coaching staff itself is lucky to have one white person. I don't care about "the history of HBCUs" this is 2009 and that stench that you accuse BCS schools with applies just as much to the HBCU schools.

So, I am sorry that you are so blatantly wrong with making the claim you did. So far, maybe what, 60 of the 260 D-I programs fit your mold. That is hardly the deal you made it out to be.....

And seriously, I am arguing YOUR points here, stop with the racist insinuations in your response. My predecessors? WTH does that mean, you have no idea if I am white, black, asian or anything else. You only know I went to Elon.

It is not that I am failing to give in to the machine, just that your "opinion" of demographics doesn't line up with the facts, at least in FCS, D-II and lower FBS.

You're in my line of sight w/ your FCS and D-II caring gophoenix. The former D-I-Aers are actually the ones I have the most issue w/. I haven't invested enough time to discern what's occurring @ the FCS level. Even w/ all HBCUs, which are quite few I might add. xreadx

[Aho_Old_Guy]

In the interest of promoting equity and diversity I propose that GSU Head Coach Rod Broadway take a pay cut and come to Boone when Coach Moore retires.

[gophoenix]

You're in my line of sight w/ your FCS and D-II caring gophoenix. The former D-I-Aers are actually the ones I have the most issue w/. I haven't invested enough time to discern what's occurring @ the FCS level. Even w/ all HBCUs, which are quite few I might add. xreadx

I think you'd be surprised if you look at the FCS and D-II schools. You'll find quirks of schools where they are majority white with majority white teams, regions with more american indians, universities with larger asian populations. And you typically aren't going to find the gross representations that you have found at the BCS schools (a few I noticed also don't fit your mold are Duke, Standford, Utah and BYU).

But outside of that, HBCUs represent nearly 1/5 of all the FCS teams. That is a rather larger portion.

[crossfire07]

I know some guys that would ask him wtf he knew about a plantation while a bitch slap was on the way. they ain't white either.