Georgia Southern/App St - Package to FBS?

[TexasTerror]

A Georgia Southern fan opened this can of worms up on the Sun Belt Conference Talk message board...

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=381570

In the last few weeks, there's been fans from other possible institutions looking at the SBC - namely Texas St-San Marcos - that have made appearances and pleaded their school's case to the SBC fan base.

[PaladinFan]

A Georgia Southern fan opened this can of worms up on the Sun Belt Conference Talk message board...

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=381570

In the last few weeks, there's been fans from other possible institutions looking at the SBC - namely Texas St-San Marcos - that have made appearances and pleaded their school's case to the SBC fan base.

Didn't a study just come out saying that GSU would drive themselves into financial ruin in making a move like that?

[Skjellyfetti]

I do not want App to go to the Sun Belt.......

[Saint3333]

A new mid-Atlantic FBS conference is the best solution. Is it an option, not at the moment. Let's see what happens in the next two years with Delaware, JMU, and ODU.

[yosef1969]

A new mid-Atlantic FBS conference is the best solution. Is it an option, not at the moment. Let's see what happens in the next two years with Delaware, JMU, and ODU.

That's what I'd like to see at some point.

It's funny to me but anytime a new conference is brought up the first response is what about the NCAA bball tourney $$. Fact is that ASU and other SoCon members (other than Davidson) get very little from the NCAA tourney, so my response is always so what about the bball tourney money. I think I've read that it takes 5 years for a new conference to earn an autobirth which for the eventual right conference it's totally worth it. Even if there is no autobid if a team in the new conference has a great year they could possibly qualify for an at large bid.xtwocentsx

[appfan2008]

If we do eventually move up I dont want to go the sun belt... like someone else said a new conference in the mid atlantic would be the best option for us...

[DX Man]

There is no current FBS conference that I would like to see ASU join.xpeacex

[SideLine Shooter]

ASU is just fine where they are!xnodx

[Go...gate]

A new mid-Atlantic FBS conference is the best solution. Is it an option, not at the moment. Let's see what happens in the next two years with Delaware, JMU, and ODU.

Right. Army and Navy might also have an interest in such a conference - or at least a scheduling arrangement with same.

[Gringer1]

Didn't a study just come out saying that GSU would drive themselves into financial ruin in making a move like that?

You seem to forget the blind rush many fans have gotten themselves into. They act like they're embarassed by the FCS and GSU joining the Sun Belt will somehow make us BCS champions. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have both found their niche. We're both top FCS teams with solid fan bases and a great conference. People really need to settle down and realize that things are quite nice the way they are.

[PaladinFan]

You seem to forget the blind rush many fans have gotten themselves into. They act like they're embarassed by the FCS and GSU joining the Sun Belt will somehow make us BCS champions. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have both found their niche. We're both top FCS teams with solid fan bases and a great conference. People really need to settle down and realize that things are quite nice the way they are.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It's interesting that whenever the subject comes up on the SBC board or otherwise that most of the negativity towards GSU comes from MTSU guys. I guess they are still bitter about us beating them like a drum in the 80s.

It's also laughable the way they seem to think the top teams in the Sun Belt could effortlessly mow down the best FCS teams, especially when you consider recent history - a 5-5 Northwestern State beating the Sun Belt co-champs in 2005 and a first-round exit McNeese State team pummeling a mid-level SBC team in 2007. xrolleyesx

[CrackerRiley]

You seem to forget the blind rush many fans have gotten themselves into. They act like they're embarassed by the FCS and GSU joining the Sun Belt will somehow make us BCS champions. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have both found their niche. We're both top FCS teams with solid fan bases and a great conference. People really need to settle down and realize that things are quite nice the way they are.

xthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupx

[GeauxColonels]

I do not want App to go to the Sun Belt.......
I agree. I don't think it would be a good fit at all. However, I'm not really sure where else they could go if they moved up now. However, like other people said, if other mid-Atlantic FCS schools were to make the move, a new conference centered around the Carolinas and Virginia would make sense to me.

[GeauxColonels]

It's interesting that whenever the subject comes up on the SBC board or otherwise that most of the negativity towards GSU comes from MTSU guys. I guess they are still bitter about us beating them like a drum in the 80s.

It's also laughable the way they seem to think the top teams in the Sun Belt could effortlessly mow down the best FCS teams, especially when you consider recent history - a 5-5 Northwestern State beating the Sun Belt co-champs in 2005 and a first-round exit McNeese State team pummeling a mid-level SBC team in 2007. xrolleyesx
And a 2-8 Nicholls State team going to Jonesboro, Arkansas in 2001 and beating Arkansas St. - the game in which the ASU administration announced that they were firing the head coach while the game was still being played.

[Eaglesrus]

You seem to forget the blind rush many fans have gotten themselves into. They act like they're embarassed by the FCS and GSU joining the Sun Belt will somehow make us BCS champions. Georgia Southern and Appalachian State have both found their niche. We're both top FCS teams with solid fan bases and a great conference. People really need to settle down and realize that things are quite nice the way they are.

Ah, man, come on......you know that as soon as the announcement is made we'll have to expand Paulson to 100,000 seats in order to satisfy the demand for tickets to the Troy, MTSU, FIU, U. of Denver, etc., games. Fortunately since we'll already be doing some construction we may be able to save some money by just adding in a vault to store the 10s of millions that will be flowing in at the same time. Have you no vision?

[The Moody1]

There is no current FBS conference that I would like to see ASU join.xpeacex


You wouldn't want to be in the ACC or the SEC? It will never happen but it would be great.

[FargoBison]

The Sun Belt is where FCS schools go to die, both ASU and GSU should hold out for better.

[ur2k]

Ah, man, come on......you know that as soon as the announcement is made we'll have to expand Paulson to 100,000 seats in order to satisfy the demand for tickets to the Troy, MTSU, FIU, U. of Denver, etc., games. Fortunately since we'll already be doing some construction we may be able to save some money by just adding in a vault to store the 10s of millions that will be flowing in at the same time. Have you no vision?

I find it amusing that the starting QB at Troy is a Richmond transfer who couldn't win the starting job over Eric Ward.

[KiddBrewer]

screw the sun belt conference. nuff said.

[SideLine Shooter]

screw the sun belt conference. nuff said.

Thank you!xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

We can't lose GSU. They have the best uniforms in FCS. xthumbsupx

[JohnStOnge]

There is no current FBS conference that I would like to see ASU join.xpeacex

What if it was the SEC or ACC? Yeah, I know that's not a realistic option...but still. There's not a school in the FCS that wouldn't want to join a BCS league conference if it could.

The Sun Belt? No. That would be awful unless what you're thinking about is things like your basketball and baseball teams.

[DX Man]

You wouldn't want to be in the ACC or the SEC? It will never happen but it would be great.

No! I would want ASU to carve out it's own niche in a new conference. ASU earned its academic reputation by not trying to be like any other school and we should do the same in athletics.xpeacex

[KiddBrewer]

No! I would want ASU to carve out it's own niche in a new conference. ASU earned its academic reputation by not trying to be like any other school and we should do the same in athletics.xpeacex

although im not sure if i agree....it is almost a good point!xthumbsupx

[mrklean]

I would love to see GSU and APP St. join C-USA

[GATA]

I would love to see GSU and APP St. join C-USA

I would say the Sun Belt or nothing at all...

considering the Sun Belt is the only conference that even has room for GSU and App State...there really isn't much of a decision to be made...

[crossfire07]

And a 2-8 Nicholls State team going to Jonesboro, Arkansas in 2001 and beating Arkansas St. - the game in which the ASU administration announced that they were firing the head coach while the game was still being played.

ULM's coach quit the day after McNeese went to north La. and spanked dat.......well, you know xnodx

[GridFan]

Here's your FBS conference.

North
Appalachian State
Charlotte
East Carolina
Marshall
MTSU
Western Kentucky

South
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
South Alabama
Troy

12-team, all sports league. ECU and Marshall wouldn't likely do it and step down from C-USA, but that would be a fun one.

[MSUBear42]

A Georgia Southern fan opened this can of worms up on the Sun Belt Conference Talk message board...

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=381570

In the last few weeks, there's been fans from other possible institutions looking at the SBC - namely Texas St-San Marcos - that have made appearances and pleaded their school's case to the SBC fan base.

Which is funny because they all want Missouri State to join the SBC, but we don't want anything to do with them, even if it did mean finally moving up.

The SBC has offered, in each of the last 11 years, for MSU to join, but our prez and AD have repeatedly said no.

[JDC325]

If App and GSU jumped together joining the Sun Belt would be a lot more tolerable for sure. I think both would do well and either take the conference to the next level of be in line for a chance at a better conference if another conference shake up comes.

I do not hate on the Sun Belt like most folks, because I do not hate folks for not settling for the status quo and taking on new challenges but some of their posters are already becoming a little elitist. What is funny is the worst performing teams have some of the most elitist posters. I guess they are just scared. Some are against GSU moving up because they will probably lose a lot of GA recruits...too funny.

[JDC325]

Didn't a study just come out saying that GSU would drive themselves into financial ruin in making a move like that?

No it said we need to increase our budget and make capital improvements. It said nothing about financial ruin if we jumped.

[Gringer1]

No it said we need to increase our budget and make capital improvements.

On the order of about 100 million dollars which we don't have. The SoCon is great and we have found our niche. People should chill out and just be happy.

[parr90]

On the order of about 100 million dollars which we don't have. The SoCon is great and we have found our niche. People should chill out and just be happy.

Sorry Gringer but the majority of folks associated with GSU dont want what you want. They dont want to stay were we are and be content. People can argue all the negatives all they want but it all comes down to what we want. The coaches want it, the players want it, and the fans want it. Sorry my man but you are in the minority. Dont believe that study. Its slanted all over the place just to help the AD and Pres defend their personal prefrence which is to stay where we are. I understand your position and you have every right to want what you do considering GSU football. People want this to happen more than not and its been a goal of former players like myself since my first involvement. The ney- sayers, many of them in places like this site, are going to point out every negative aspect they can, but its not about them, its about us. You probably are in good shape for a while anyway because the money isnt there right now.

[blueballs]

Sorry Gringer but the majority of folks associated with GSU dont want what you want. They dont want to stay were we are and be content. People can argue all the negatives all they want but it all comes down to what we want. The coaches want it, the players want it, and the fans want it. Sorry my man but you are in the minority. Dont believe that study. Its slanted all over the place just to help the AD and Pres defend their personal prefrence which is to stay where we are. I understand your position and you have every right to want what you do considering GSU football. People want this to happen more than not and its been a goal of former players like myself since my first involvement. The ney- sayers, many of them in places like this site, are going to point out every negative aspect they can, but its not about them, its about us. You probably are in good shape for a while anyway because the money isnt there right now.

... which is the rub, do the folks who are the majority in wanting to move up want the move up enough to pay for it? So far the answer is a resounding "No" but you never know what the future holds.

Parr is right about his stance of what is now FBS being the goal of the program, Erk stated as much over 20 years ago (BTW, Parr is one of Erk's boys in case some of you didn't know, he has multiple rings)... however not enough folks have stepped up financially to see that dream through to reality.

[Saint3333]

Much like ASU it seems many fans want to be FBS but don't want to pay for it. Not sure where the saying comes from but my grandfather used to say "It takes money to drink liquor and ride the train". I assume that means riding in first class. Seems like our schools have a lot of fans riding coach looking through the windows of the first class car, but that's about it for now.

[proasu89]

ASU is just fine where they are!xnodx

We are, but there may be a time in the near future where we don't have a choice. I'm not in the know, but it would not surprise me if somewhere down the road the NCAA eliminated our current sub-division. If that is the case then being proactive is the only way to go.

[bandit]

it seems to me that the way to get fans to pay for it is to actually actively pursue the move. Why would anybody pay for it if the administration isn't seeking support specifically for the move and asking for the money?

Once a decision is made to move and publicly announced then fundraising could begin, and I would imagine you'd see money start to come in at a rapid pace among those who want FBS to happen.

[AppMan]

ASU is just fine where they are!xnodx

That is a matter of opinion and one which I happen to not agree with. You don't actually believe we're building all these great facilites to remain at the FCS level do you?

[CrackerRiley]

That is a matter of opinion and one which I happen to not agree with. You don't actually believe we're building all these great facilites to remain at the FCS level do you?

I think, we are building these facilities because we have the funds and the old ones need improvement. Doesn't necessarily mean we have to move up just because we have an improved stadium etc. They didn't build a new cafeteria to help us move to FBS... had you seen old Welbourne lately!? xlolx

[EKU05]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but everytime a discussion about a potential new FBS conference comes up (namely one involving a while group of FCS move-ups) it's worth mentioning the reason that isn't a legit consideration for most schools.

It would be five years before that conference would receive an auto-bid to the NCAA basketball tournament, and given the nature of most FCS schools relying on such a bid to have any shot at dancing it would basically set each school's basketball program back five years or more. Imagine back to back recruiting classes who KNOW they have no chance to play in the NCAA tournament in their college careers, and two more classes that would only have one or two chances even if the talent happens to be there.

I know this is a football-centric board, but most ADs are not willing to take that bullet.

[CrackerRiley]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but everytime a discussion about a potential new FBS conference comes up (namely one involving a while group of FCS move-ups) it's worth mentioning the reason that isn't a legit consideration for most schools.

It would be five years before that conference would receive an auto-bid to the NCAA basketball tournament, and given the nature of most FCS schools relying on such a bid to have any shot at dancing it would basically set each school's basketball program back five years or more. Imagine back to back recruiting classes who KNOW they have no chance to play in the NCAA tournament in their college careers, and two more classes that would only have one or two chances even if the talent happens to be there.

I know this is a football-centric board, but most ADs are not willing to take that bullet.

ASU basketball is already Division I... I might not be completely understanding your post though... :o

[Cocky]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but everytime a discussion about a potential new FBS conference comes up (namely one involving a while group of FCS move-ups) it's worth mentioning the reason that isn't a legit consideration for most schools.

It would be five years before that conference would receive an auto-bid to the NCAA basketball tournament, and given the nature of most FCS schools relying on such a bid to have any shot at dancing it would basically set each school's basketball program back five years or more. Imagine back to back recruiting classes who KNOW they have no chance to play in the NCAA tournament in their college careers, and two more classes that would only have one or two chances even if the talent happens to be there.

I know this is a football-centric board, but most ADs are not willing to take that bullet.

You get the A-Sun (or non football confernce)_ to add football for the teams wanting to move up. This will get you your auto bid. Then later on have the football teams split into another conference which would have an auto bid if six or more existing members move together (I believe 6 is the minimum number). This might be an option for a new conference.

[mrklean]

LIke I said before. GSU and App need to go to the C-USA. THE Sun Belt is a crappy place.

[DX Man]

That is a matter of opinion and one which I happen to not agree with. You don't actually believe we're building all these great facilites to remain at the FCS level do you?

Great post!xthumbsupx

ASU should continue to putting itself in the position to be ready for many scenarios down the road.

[bandit]

I haven't read every single post on this thread, but everytime a discussion about a potential new FBS conference comes up (namely one involving a while group of FCS move-ups) it's worth mentioning the reason that isn't a legit consideration for most schools.

It would be five years before that conference would receive an auto-bid to the NCAA basketball tournament, and given the nature of most FCS schools relying on such a bid to have any shot at dancing it would basically set each school's basketball program back five years or more. Imagine back to back recruiting classes who KNOW they have no chance to play in the NCAA tournament in their college careers, and two more classes that would only have one or two chances even if the talent happens to be there.

I know this is a football-centric board, but most ADs are not willing to take that bullet.

While it is true that there would be no auto-bid for 5 years, most of these schools are in 1-bid leagues anyway, so its not like they are leaving tons of $$$ on the table from NCAA tournament credits.

As for the motivation of playing for the NCAA, that still exists - the league champion, if good enough, would likely merit at-large consideration... and they would certainly be eligible for participation in the NIT.

I don't think a new league is likely, but I don't think the issue of not having an auto-bid for 5 years would be a factor that would inhibit its creation. A new league is going to have football as its focus, and it will be planning for long-term success. I don't think these schools would lose too much sleep over losing the auto-bid for the first few years of what would hopefully be a long history for a new conference.

[chrisattsu]

A Georgia Southern fan opened this can of worms up on the Sun Belt Conference Talk message board...

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=381570

In the last few weeks, there's been fans from other possible institutions looking at the SBC - namely Texas St-San Marcos - that have made appearances and pleaded their school's case to the SBC fan base.

I am one of those Bobcat posters that has been on the Sun Belt board for the past 'few weeks'. Texas State has all but made it clear they want to go to FBS when we the get the opportunity.

Our fans, much like the GSU and ASU contingent on this board, think the SBC is the wrong way to go. They want to CUSA or WAC. CUSA is very unlikely because their ego is not going to allow them to take an FCS school. They think that they are better than an entrance to FBS. They also have such a large number of Texas schools already. The Eastern half of the conference complains that they already have four trips to Texas per year.

Also like GSU/ASU, our fans dream about the idea of a 'new' regional conference. This Southwest Conference would include FBS schools from Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Arkansas. However, this appears to be very unlikely.

For that reason, I decided to explore the two most-likely options (Sun Belt and WAC). What I discovered is that football aside, the Sun Belt was a MAJOR upgrade in terms of Conference RPI and NCAA tournament placement to the Southland.

The Southland Conference is a habitual one-bid conference for all of the major sports. In most cases, the SLC only sends its tournament champion to the NCAA tournament. The Bobcats play teams like Texas, Rice, and TCU in out of conference contests, but then we player lower RPI teams during the conference schedule (granted nobody gets much lower than Texas State for Men's basketball). This means that we could be sitting at home if we failed to win the SLC conference tournament (even if we had best conference regular-season record). Over the last five years, The Sun Belt has had a higher RPI rating, and placed more teams in postseason play than the Southland Conference in baseball, softball, basketball (men and women), and volleyball. With the exception of Men’s basketball, the Sun Belt Conferences has finished nearly 10 spots ahead of the SLC in end-of-season Conference RPI standings over the last five years. The Sun Belt’s Conference RPI in baseball and softball has finished in the Top-10 three of the last four years (ahead of the Big Ten, Mountain West, Southland, and WAC).

In terms of travel, the Sun Belt has 7 teams within 1000 miles compared to the WAC's 2. It seems like a no-brainer to go that route, but our fans like these fans see it as a death sentence. They would rather join the WAC, play Hawaii, Fresno, Nevada, and Boise (until they take a MWC bid) for the football glory than play in the Sun Belt which annually out ranks both the SLC and WAC in every other sport.

[txstatebobcat]

I'm one of the few bobcat fans that doesn't want us to move up, but rather become an elite at this level.

Having said that, if we must move up then sunbelt would be my first choice.

Another option that I think is almost as good would be a package deal of UTSA, UNT and TxState joining the WAC. this would cut down on travel costs and provide us with regional rivals.


No way would I want TxSt to join the WAC on its own. that would be a death sentence.

[hippy@GSU]

it seems to me that the way to get fans to pay for it is to actually actively pursue the move. Why would anybody pay for it if the administration isn't seeking support specifically for the move and asking for the money?

Once a decision is made to move and publicly announced then fundraising could begin, and I would imagine you'd see money start to come in at a rapid pace among those who want FBS to happen.

+1. You are dead on with this one!

[rufus]

it seems to me that the way to get fans to pay for it is to actually actively pursue the move. Why would anybody pay for it if the administration isn't seeking support specifically for the move and asking for the money?

Once a decision is made to move and publicly announced then fundraising could begin, and I would imagine you'd see money start to come in at a rapid pace among those who want FBS to happen.

The thing is, no responsible AD or university president is going to announce a move to FBS until they actually have a conference to join. Until an invite to an acceptable conference is on the table, you probably won't hear much from your administration. In the cases of App State and JMU, the administrations don't really have to say that they plan to move to FBS eventually, because their actions indicate that they do.

JMU isn't spending $62 million on the first phase of a three-phase stadium expansion for FCS. The total project cost for all phases is expected to be around $140 million. I know the second and third phases are still "unofficial" but a quick look through the VA procurement website shows that JMU has already hired designers, project managers, etc through all three phases, indicating that it is at least serious about all phases.

Now officially, JMU has no FBS aspirations, but it's easy to read between the lines. Here's a recent quote from our AD:

"'This is not being done to move to FBS football,' Bourne said. 'It's being done to compete at the absolute highest levels of the FCS right now.'"

He's made these claims repeatedly, and always ends the statement with "right now", "at this moment", "in the next few years", etc. I would imagine most AD's speak the same language. Your fans will just have to read between the lines.

[bandit]

The thing is, no responsible AD or university president is going to announce a move to FBS until they actually have a conference to join. Until an invite to an acceptable conference is on the table, you probably won't hear much from your administration. In the cases of App State and JMU, the administrations don't really have to say that they plan to move to FBS eventually, because their actions indicate that they do.

JMU isn't spending $62 million on the first phase of a three-phase stadium expansion for FCS. The total project cost for all phases is expected to be around $140 million. I know the second and third phases are still "unofficial" but a quick look through the VA procurement website shows that JMU has already hired designers, project managers, etc through all three phases, indicating that it is at least serious about all phases.

Now officially, JMU has no FBS aspirations, but it's easy to read between the lines. Here's a recent quote from our AD:

"'This is not being done to move to FBS football,' Bourne said. 'It's being done to compete at the absolute highest levels of the FCS right now.'"

He's made these claims repeatedly, and always ends the statement with "right now", "at this moment", "in the next few years", etc. I would imagine most AD's speak the same language. Your fans will just have to read between the lines.

That is one approach, but Texas State, UTSA and Jacksonville State have all made it clear they are seeking FBS membership without a conference affiliation yet determined. Whether or not the ADs of those schools are "responsible", I cannot judge.

I don't think that schools as attractive and successful as App State, JMU and Ga Southern would need to really worry about conference affiliation for long. There are currently zero independent FBS schools that are searching for conference membership. If you make yourself attractive enough, there will be openings... and if these 3 schools I mentioned did make a public commitment to go FBS, I think you would see others follow suit, not wanting to be left behind by rivals and peer institutions (ODU and Delaware, for instance.)

That said, I think JMU and App State are taking the smart approach as they are obviously getting the $$ they need for upgrades without publicly declaring they are going FBS. If you don't need to make the commitment now, it makes sense to hold off and see how things develop. But for a school like Ga Southern, who evidently doesn't have the $$ for the needed upgrades, a public drive towards FBS might be what they need to start the donations flowing in.

I suspect that CUSA will ultimately splinter into 2 parts, which will create a very different conference map and provide plenty of opportunities for potential FBS schools willing to put the $$ and effort into an upgrade.

[Touchdown Yosef]

I am completely for App to stay FCS. I see nothing truly attractive about the Sunbelt or FBS in general in it's current form. I love what we have and have to desire to move.

That being said if the push was made I would want to see us move with other FCS schools, namely JMU and GSU. While I love the Socon and its history and our rivals I would support a new football first FCS conference anchored with App, GSU, JMU, Charlotte, and maybe UD. Adding from there other schools who can add natural rivalries and great football atmospheres.

[JDC325]

LIke I said before. GSU and App need to go to the C-USA. THE Sun Belt is a crappy place.

As of today it still is a bottom two conference with the MAC however a lot of Sun Belt teams continue to grow and improve. It is not a death sentence everyone makes it out to be and folks forget unlike the MAC and CUSA it has only been a football conference since 2001 and is made up primarily young FCS transfers. They still are closer to the FCS than the BCS but still make steps forward every year. We will see if the minor trend up continues though. Who knows what the Sun Belt will be by the time GSU or App makes the jump but I know one thing if App and GSU both join the conference it will instantly get a whole lot better.

[JDC325]

On the order of about 100 million dollars which we don't have. The SoCon is great and we have found our niche. People should chill out and just be happy.

Well you have a lot of emailing to do because the majority of all GSU folks, around 70+%, want to jump up and that is only going to get stronger with 85% of the students in favor of moving up. It is hard to have the money needed when one it has never been asked for and two plan has never been put in place to jump up. Those two things are kind of important. Why are you so dead set on staying in the FCS anyway? Today we are not ready but tomorrow is always a bigger and better GSU. I support GSU either way I hope you will to when the jump is made.

[AppMan]

I think, we are building these facilities because we have the funds and the old ones need improvement. Doesn't necessarily mean we have to move up just because we have an improved stadium etc. They didn't build a new cafeteria to help us move to FBS... had you seen old Welbourne lately!? xlolx

Nobody said we "have" to move up because of the new facilities. We build the new facilities TO move up. What in the devil does the new cafeteria have to do with this? BTW, Welborn is gone, nothing but a pile of dirt remains.

[AppMan]

I see nothing truly attractive about the Sunbelt or FBS in general in it's current form.

I tend to agree about the SunBelt in relationship to ASU, but there is "nothing truly attractive about the FBS?" You must be kidding? If you're scared, say you're scared.

[SideLine Shooter]

Well you have a lot of emailing to do because the majority of all GSU folks, around 70+%, want to jump up and that is only going to get stronger with 85% of the students in favor of moving up. It is hard to have the money needed when one it has never been asked for and two plan has never been put in place to jump up. Those two things are kind of important. Why are you so dead set on staying in the FCS anyway? Today we are not ready but tomorrow is always a bigger and better GSU. I support GSU either way I hope you will to when the jump is made.

Jump man, jump!

['neers80]

we would NEVER win a national championship in the FBS. I like being a big fish in a small pond. I wouldn't trade these Championships for a bowl game ANY day!

[Saint3333]

While I agree I won't trade our NCs for any bowl win (outside of a BCS game like Boise). I would trade the FBS regular season games for the FCS games. Yeah I know the majority of the fanbase wouldn't know the difference between the lower level FBS teams and the SoCon teams, but the OOC would be much better with FBS teams coming to Boone.

It's a tough choice because I like aspects of both.

[Touchdown Yosef]

I tend to agree about the SunBelt in relationship to ASU, but there is "nothing truly attractive about the FBS?" You must be kidding? If you're scared, say you're scared.

No not scared, realistic. As FBS is currently I see no real advantage of moving up, reasons being...

Conference affiliation: Conference USA would make the most sense but they have 12 teams and aren't neccassarily trying to become the home of FCS jumpers. Plus we add no major TV market to the deal. Its just not going to happen right out of the gate for us to join CUSA, and its only really appealing if ECU remains in CUSA. You've got the MAC but lets face it that is a northern conference and not a single school their gains anything but an increased travel budget by adding a southern team. The Sunbelt, why would you even want to consider the sunbelt. It is a terrible football conference, no natural rivals and we would have to pay to fly our field hockey team to Denver for games. Our recruiting is not going to be much if any better recruiting kids to play ULM, MTSU, and WKU. Plus none of those schools provide any kind of excitement for fans. I tell you what I can't wait for black saturday against Troy. Casual fans will know more about Wofford, Furman, and Elon than the current Sunbelt schools.

Then you have the issue of home games all together. Trying to schedule games against anyone a casual fan will have heard of will require a road trip and we will host very few games (that generate revenue that we will desperately need) and the ones we do will probably be against former Socon rivals.

Postseason: We will never again compete for a national title period the end. We will never again sniff a national title game because the system will not allow it, especially not from the Sun Belt or even a new conference. CUSA is the best bet but we aren't getting into CUSA. If we are lucky and if we are lucky we can play in a bowl game, and from such a poor FBS conference we will play in a bowl game that gets no more media coverage than an FCS title game or even a FCS espn playoff game. Instead we play in a game the the media jokes about and complains because there are sooooo many games now that mediocre teams make them and no one cares to watch. Plus we will look stupid playing Central Michigan (no not the boys in maize and blue or even green and white) in New Orleans with 10k fans in a 70k stadium. We cold fill BofA stadium for a game but that is reserved for Big East and ACC teams. Look at it this way. ECU who have carved out a great non BCS program for themselves if they went undefeated last year with wins over WVU and the ACC champs and BCS bowl winners VA Tech they would still not make it to the NC game. There would be no guarantee that they even played in a BCS game not with Utah also being undefeated and from a stronger conference. ECU can run the table but will never sit at the table with BCS boys b/c they aren't in "the club".

Budget: Yea you know where i'm going here so I'll just let this one go b/c we all know the budget will require a bunch more donations than we get. Extra scholarships and travel will be a lot of money.

I'd also venture to say that the sunbelt is not much better of a conference than the socon for our baseball or basketball programs as well and that the socon may be better in both.

In its current state and our situation and history being what it is I see no, let me say again I see absolutely no advantage at all in making the jump. I am not opposed to it in the right circumstances but as it stands now FCS is a better place to be. Scared? No, scared is the people who think Charlotte is going to take our place as a BCS powerhouse someday and so they pound their chests claiming we need to make the move first, when realistically they would be better off in the Socon and the Socon would be better off with them.

I am not trying to turn this thread into an ASU FBS FCS debate so I apologize if I do. I simply wanted to state my feelings as I do not fear moving up but I do look at it realistically and firmly believe in its current form FBS hold little to nothing for us and that we are better off where we are and should work with FCS to continue to create the great football we all enjoy so much.

[Appinator]

Out of all the teams mentioned, it really only makes sense for GaSo to make the jump. While all of Georgia seems to be "Bulldog" territory, with pockets of Tech fans, they have an extremely rich football state that seems to be ripe for a third FBS team. Compare that with NC, which does not have a reputation for being one of the HS "meccas" of football with already 5 FBS teams. JMU might be able to be thrown in this scenario if it wasn't for ODU.

With the increased exposure, they (GaSo) would have potentially the Savanah market and surrounding southern GA areas. Statesboro IS in the middle of nowhere, but Gainesville was once too. I'm not saying that if they made the jump to FBS that they will be up to UGA and UF standards right away, I just think it is much more logical than adding a 6th FBS team to NC. They have the history, they have a potential market, for them it makes sense.

For ASU, I don't see it as being so clear cut.

[The Moody1]

Out of all the teams mentioned, it really only makes sense for GaSo to make the jump. While all of Georgia seems to be "Bulldog" territory, with pockets of Tech fans, they have an extremely rich football state that seems to be ripe for a third FBS team. Compare that with NC, which does not have a reputation for being one of the HS "meccas" of football with already 5 FBS teams. JMU might be able to be thrown in this scenario if it wasn't for ODU.

With the increased exposure, they (GaSo) would have potentially the Savanah market and surrounding southern GA areas. Statesboro IS in the middle of nowhere, but Gainesville was once too. I'm not saying that if they made the jump to FBS that they will be up to UGA and UF standards right away, I just think it is much more logical than adding a 6th FBS team to NC. They have the history, they have a potential market, for them it makes sense.

For ASU, I don't see it as being so clear cut.


App will be able able to pull in fans form the Charlotte, Winston and Greensboro Markets. We may have more FBS competition but we have a larger fan base than GSU and the Savannah market isn't that big to begin with. UGA football rules South Georgia. Duke and Wake Forest have a smaller fan base for football than App.

I just don't see where the fact that the state of Georgia has fewer FBS than NC really gives GSU an advantage over App.

[mrklean]

App will be able able to pull in fans form the Charlotte, Winston and Greensboro Markets. We may have more FBS competition but we have a larger fan base than GSU and the Savannah market isn't that big to begin with. UGA football rules South Georgia. Duke and Wake Forest have a smaller fan base for football than App.

I just don't see where the fact that the state of Georgia has fewer FBS than NC really gives GSU an advantage over App.

Most GSU alumni live in the Atlanta area. This is our problem. So GSU has a big market, but its in Atlanta.

[Eaglesrus]

Most GSU alumni live in the Atlanta area. This is our problem. So GSU has a big market, but its in Atlanta.

I question that, do you have numbers to back it up? Certainly a large percentage of our students come from the Atlanta area now and that will continue, but historically (and in the not too distant past) we were primarily a south GA teachers college. I think that is a big part of our "problem"; the majority of educators are female and, while they make a comfortable living, on the grand scale of things they don't bring in the big bucks. Now that the business school has outgrown the school of education and we have added programs like information technology, hopefully more of those graduates will start to 1) continue to be GSU fans (instead of being UGA wannabes) and 2) increase our donor base substantially.

[The Moody1]

I question that, do you have numbers to back it up? Certainly a large percentage of our students come from the Atlanta area now and that will continue, but historically (and in the not too distant past) we were primarily a south GA teachers college. I think that is a big part of our "problem"; the majority of educators are female and, while they make a comfortable living, on the grand scale of things they don't bring in the big bucks. Now that the business school has outgrown the school of education and we have added programs like information technology, hopefully more of those graduates will start to 1) continue to be GSU fans (instead of being UGA wannabes) and 2) increase our donor base substantially.


App has the following map that shows all of our alumni in the US on a county by county basis. Maybe GSU has the same thing. You may want to take a look.

http://www.alumni.appstate.edu/AlumniMap/framemap.htm

It looks like we have 20 misguided souls in Bulloch county. xsmiley_wix

[Mntneer]

I tend to agree about the SunBelt in relationship to ASU, but there is "nothing truly attractive about the FBS?" You must be kidding? If you're scared, say you're scared.

Ad hominem much? So you agree the Sun Belt sucks. Where are we supposed to go then? If some sort of conference shake up happens, maybe we could find a home that would take a move up like ASU that's geographically remote and can offer no mass media market. But you're talking hypothetical on top of hypothetical. And the $$$$ issue remains completely unsolved. The YC well isn't deep enough to generate the kind of cash we'd need.

I'm not entirely against a move up, but plenty of folks seem to think we should put in our notice as soon as the moratorium is up, and all the "details" will just shake out later. Some of these problems are no doubt solvable, but if in the end we went through it all just to wind up in the Sun Belt or some new equivalent, I'm not sure it would be a move in the right direction.

[GSUhooligan]

App has the following map that shows all of our alumni in the US on a county by county basis. Maybe GSU has the same thing. You may want to take a look.

http://www.alumni.appstate.edu/AlumniMap/framemap.htm

It looks like we have 20 misguided souls in Bulloch county. xsmiley_wix

There's a restaurant in Statesvegas called Ja'Man Cafe that is run by two former Appy professors. Don't know if they were alum as well, but it's pretty good and has a great beer selection.

[mrklean]

I question that, do you have numbers to back it up? Certainly a large percentage of our students come from the Atlanta area now and that will continue, but historically (and in the not too distant past) we were primarily a south GA teachers college. I think that is a big part of our "problem"; the majority of educators are female and, while they make a comfortable living, on the grand scale of things they don't bring in the big bucks. Now that the business school has outgrown the school of education and we have added programs like information technology, hopefully more of those graduates will start to 1) continue to be GSU fans (instead of being UGA wannabes) and 2) increase our donor base substantially.

I got this from Southern Boosters back in 2001. I think it was over 50% of GSU alumni that lived in the Atlanta area.

[The Moody1]

I got this from Southern Boosters back in 2001. I think it was over 50% of GSU alumni that lived in the Atlanta area.

Out of the 9.6 million people that live in Georgia 5.7 million live in metro Atlanta, so your numbers would make sense.

[89Eagle]

The new SAC(Southern Atlantic Conference): Georgia Southern University, App. State, Geogia State University,Central Florida, Florida Atlantic University, , , Middle Tennessee State University, University of South Alabama, Troy University, and Western Kentucky University. This would help some of the current SBC teams with travel cost, and it would bring some old rivals back together. I know alot of GSU fans like being able to drive to all games. Now you could pick out a couple and road trip.

[ur2k]

No not scared, realistic. As FBS is currently I see no real advantage of moving up, reasons being...

Conference affiliation: Conference USA would make the most sense but they have 12 teams and aren't neccassarily trying to become the home of FCS jumpers. Plus we add no major TV market to the deal. Its just not going to happen right out of the gate for us to join CUSA, and its only really appealing if ECU remains in CUSA. You've got the MAC but lets face it that is a northern conference and not a single school their gains anything but an increased travel budget by adding a southern team. The Sunbelt, why would you even want to consider the sunbelt. It is a terrible football conference, no natural rivals and we would have to pay to fly our field hockey team to Denver for games. Our recruiting is not going to be much if any better recruiting kids to play ULM, MTSU, and WKU. Plus none of those schools provide any kind of excitement for fans. I tell you what I can't wait for black saturday against Troy. Casual fans will know more about Wofford, Furman, and Elon than the current Sunbelt schools.

Then you have the issue of home games all together. Trying to schedule games against anyone a casual fan will have heard of will require a road trip and we will host very few games (that generate revenue that we will desperately need) and the ones we do will probably be against former Socon rivals.

Postseason: We will never again compete for a national title period the end. We will never again sniff a national title game because the system will not allow it, especially not from the Sun Belt or even a new conference. CUSA is the best bet but we aren't getting into CUSA. If we are lucky and if we are lucky we can play in a bowl game, and from such a poor FBS conference we will play in a bowl game that gets no more media coverage than an FCS title game or even a FCS espn playoff game. Instead we play in a game the the media jokes about and complains because there are sooooo many games now that mediocre teams make them and no one cares to watch. Plus we will look stupid playing Central Michigan (no not the boys in maize and blue or even green and white) in New Orleans with 10k fans in a 70k stadium. We cold fill BofA stadium for a game but that is reserved for Big East and ACC teams. Look at it this way. ECU who have carved out a great non BCS program for themselves if they went undefeated last year with wins over WVU and the ACC champs and BCS bowl winners VA Tech they would still not make it to the NC game. There would be no guarantee that they even played in a BCS game not with Utah also being undefeated and from a stronger conference. ECU can run the table but will never sit at the table with BCS boys b/c they aren't in "the club".

Budget: Yea you know where i'm going here so I'll just let this one go b/c we all know the budget will require a bunch more donations than we get. Extra scholarships and travel will be a lot of money.

I'd also venture to say that the sunbelt is not much better of a conference than the socon for our baseball or basketball programs as well and that the socon may be better in both.

In its current state and our situation and history being what it is I see no, let me say again I see absolutely no advantage at all in making the jump. I am not opposed to it in the right circumstances but as it stands now FCS is a better place to be. Scared? No, scared is the people who think Charlotte is going to take our place as a BCS powerhouse someday and so they pound their chests claiming we need to make the move first, when realistically they would be better off in the Socon and the Socon would be better off with them.

I am not trying to turn this thread into an ASU FBS FCS debate so I apologize if I do. I simply wanted to state my feelings as I do not fear moving up but I do look at it realistically and firmly believe in its current form FBS hold little to nothing for us and that we are better off where we are and should work with FCS to continue to create the great football we all enjoy so much.

This

Great post.

[GSUhooligan]

The idea of current FBS teams joining a newly created conference of mostly transitioning FBS schools is a pipe dream. No school is going to backtrack to what the Sun Belt was 8 years ago by starting over. UCF especially wouldn't join even if they are terrible in CUSA. We can either get 8 FCS schools to make the jump, or join the Sun Belt.

[Touchdown Yosef]

The new SAC(Southern Atlantic Conference): Georgia Southern University, App. State, Geogia State University,Central Florida, Florida Atlantic University, , , Middle Tennessee State University, University of South Alabama, Troy University, and Western Kentucky University. This would help some of the current SBC teams with travel cost, and it would bring some old rivals back together. I know alot of GSU fans like being able to drive to all games. Now you could pick out a couple and road trip.

That may be slightly more appealing but the reality remains that no one in that conference will ever be able to compete with the big boys and their billion dollar television deals and exclusive BCS membership. I still think there is more success and even notoriety to be had by committing to FCS in a solid conference with great fanbases and group of committed schools and fans.

[ASU_Fanatic]

That would be great. It would be nice for the SoCon to get fair again. We are beatin everyone else like a drum.

[Appinator]

App will be able able to pull in fans form the Charlotte, Winston and Greensboro Markets. We may have more FBS competition but we have a larger fan base than GSU and the Savannah market isn't that big to begin with. UGA football rules South Georgia. Duke and Wake Forest have a smaller fan base for football than App.

I just don't see where the fact that the state of Georgia has fewer FBS than NC really gives GSU an advantage over App.

Our ability to pull fans from across the state is one thing, but I am really talking about potential revenue that stems from marketing with the team.

GaSo has the ability to gather large amount of regional revenue from businesses in the southern part of the state, where App is already clawing for a footing with as much local competition that we have. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for us to have a deal with Lowes for a stadium, when they originate in Wilkesboro? But they have decided to go with a school half our size just down the road in Wake, mostly because of the TV exposure only "mythically" associated with the FBS. Most of our oppertunities for big "cash grabs" from NC companies are long gone because there are 6 other places where their marketing dollars can be spent.

I just happen to think GaSo has a more sound economical foundation than us with the markets that are available to them in southern Georgia. Its not a knock on ASU, I just want the Apps to be successful and not end up at the bottom of the totem poll where ever we play.

[Touchdown Yosef]

That would be great. It would be nice for the SoCon to get fair again. We are beatin everyone else like a drum.

The Socon is plenty fair right now, we are riding a hot streak in football over the last few years but we rarely go undefeated and usually get some great games from our rivals.

[CrackerRiley]

Nobody said we "have" to move up because of the new facilities. We build the new facilities TO move up. What in the devil does the new cafeteria have to do with this? BTW, Welborn is gone, nothing but a pile of dirt remains.

I was just making the point that ASU has been able to get the funds to improve these facilities and not just building them to move anywhere but because they needed to be improved... thats how the cafeteria came into it. I said HAD you seen Welbourne lately... the place was awful and cramped that why the new one was built... and we had the funds. I've seen it, I'm still a student.

[Eaglesrus]

App has the following map that shows all of our alumni in the US on a county by county basis. Maybe GSU has the same thing. You may want to take a look.

http://www.alumni.appstate.edu/AlumniMap/framemap.htm

It looks like we have 20 misguided souls in Bulloch county. xsmiley_wix

Thanks, that's a cool feature. Unfortunately I can't find anything like that on our site.

[seantaylor]

The recruiting area that GSU would pull from would be a huge asset. South Georgia produces better talent than North Georgia, and we are always raiding Florida.

[Appstate29]

No offense to any SB guy, or Sunbelt wannabe, but I don't want to be associated with that Conference, athletically or academically. Not a knock on them, they are what they are, but ASU has worked hard for its academic reputation in the Region, and I don't believe these schools share the same values. Plus I'm really intrigued by a conference in the Carolinas/Va with maybe some other good schools

[CamelCityAppFan]

I don't understand the appeal of a new FBS conference made up entirely of FCS jumpers. What you would basically end up with is what we have now, minus the prospect of postseason playoff football for the nat'l championship.

In the new all-FCS FBS conference we would:

-- still have one or two out-of-conference games in which we were the significant underdog, except when we occasionally beat the team from the superior conference it would not be on the cover of Sports Illustrated, and barely mentioned on ESPN.

-- not play in any post-season game of significance (I don't care what you say, I'd rather lose in the semi-finals of the FCS Playoffs in early December than win the Floyd's Barbershop Bowl in late December).

-- (from a strictly ASU perspective) not gain one grain of respect from the North Carolina FBS fan base (the UNCs, the States, the ECUs, the Wakes). I think we would probably lose some notoriety in the state. They won't admit it out loud, but they know that for the last 10 years the best Division I football program in the state has been headquartered in Boone. If we "jump up" to become member of another lower- to mid-tier punching bag conference, we've thrown away all that we've built. There's a mild case of ASU-mania going on the state right now, would hate to see that go.

The best option, IMHO, is to continue to dominate the FCS for the foreseeable future. I'm not totally, 100% against the idea of a jump to FBS, but I am against jumping to a crappy conference or a brand new, all FCS conference. If we go, it should be to a well-established conference. The ACC would never take us, the SEC is too big already. Personally, I think the conference that would make the most sense is the Big East.

xtwocentsx

[Waco Kid]

Big East ain't happening either Camel City. Best option to me is what Terry Holland at ECU proposed to the C-USA. Expand C-USA to two 8 or 9 team divisions that only play within their division. Then have the two champions play each other for the C-USA crown. 9 teams on each side would be best since everyone plays 12 OOC games in FBS these days. You wouldn't want to try to schedule 5 OOC games every year. C-USA East could be ECU, Memphis, Marshall, UCF, UAB, plus Temple, MTSU, Troy, and ASU. C-USA West could be UTEP, Tulane, SMU, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, USM, plus LA Tech, and Ak State. This would keep travel costs way down and provide better competition for ASU.

[boonegoon]

Big East ain't happening either Camel City. Best option to me is what Terry Holland at ECU proposed to the C-USA. Expand C-USA to two 8 or 9 team divisions that only play within their division. Then have the two champions play each other for the C-USA crown. 9 teams on each side would be best since everyone plays 12 OOC games in FBS these days. You wouldn't want to try to schedule 5 OOC games every year. C-USA East could be ECU, Memphis, Marshall, UCF, UAB, plus Temple, MTSU, Troy, and ASU. C-USA West could be UTEP, Tulane, SMU, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, USM, plus LA Tech, and Ak State. This would keep travel costs way down and provide better competition for ASU.

I really think that would stink. 2 teams Marshall and ECU are the only interesting ones to me.

[GSUhooligan]

Big East ain't happening either Camel City. Best option to me is what Terry Holland at ECU proposed to the C-USA. Expand C-USA to two 8 or 9 team divisions that only play within their division. Then have the two champions play each other for the C-USA crown. 9 teams on each side would be best since everyone plays 12 OOC games in FBS these days. You wouldn't want to try to schedule 5 OOC games every year. C-USA East could be ECU, Memphis, Marshall, UCF, UAB, plus Temple, MTSU, Troy, and ASU. C-USA West could be UTEP, Tulane, SMU, Rice, Houston, Tulsa, USM, plus LA Tech, and Ak State. This would keep travel costs way down and provide better competition for ASU.

The current conference members won't want to spilt the pie that many times.

[The Moody1]

I really think that would stink. 2 teams Marshall and ECU are the only interesting ones to me.

Do you have a lot of interest in Samford, Wofford, Elon, etc.? If we are in the same conference you would probably gain some interest in the teams in which you currently have no interest. As an institution App has much more in common with those proposed schools than with most of the schools in the SoCon.

[Waco Kid]

Do you have a lot of interest in Samford, Wofford, Elon, etc.? If we are in the same conference you would probably gain some interest in the teams in which you currently have no interest. As an institution App has much more in common with those proposed schools than with most of the schools in the SoCon.

Good Point Moody!

Nobody from App gave a rats rearend about Elon, Wofford, and Samford before they joined the league. If they were in the Big South would any of our fans care about them? NO! All it would take is a couple of years for rivalries to build. I would much rather go to Orlando to face UCF in front of 40,000 instead of Spartanburg and play Wofford in front of 8,000.

I'm not against the top FCS schools getting together either. I was just responding to Camel City about what our best bet outside of a group of FCS schools moving together would be. I would be fine with FCS if so many good teams hadn't left over the years to be replaced by small D-2 schools.

There is just such a large difference between the schools that have left (most of them), along with the top schools currently, and the schools that have entered recently. Why else would the NCAA be looking to make it so much harder to move from D2 to D1? I'm not just talking about what happens on the field, but along the lines of fan support, financial support, facilities, and school enrolments/missions.

[Waco Kid]

The current conference members won't want to spilt the pie that many times.


Well I agree to a point, but more teams also give the conference a chance to make more money. More schools to put on TV, more schools to go to bowls, and more importantly more schools with a chance to play in the NCAA tourney. Tat of course is where conferences make the most $$$. Also spilting the league would cut travel costs a lot and help offset splitting the rev.

[Waco Kid]

I really think that would stink. 2 teams Marshall and ECU are the only interesting ones to me.

I don't know how long you have been an App fan, but in the past we had very big games against the likes of MTSU and Troy. I guess playing Memphis and Temple would be just awful for us especially during bball season.

[gophoenix]

Do you have a lot of interest in Samford, Wofford, Elon, etc.? If we are in the same conference you would probably gain some interest in the teams in which you currently have no interest. As an institution App has much more in common with those proposed schools than with most of the schools in the SoCon.

And here comes the elitism.... xrolleyesx


Good Point Moody!

Nobody from App gave a rats rearend about Elon, Wofford, and Samford before they joined the league. If they were in the Big South would any of our fans care about them? NO! All it would take is a couple of years for rivalries to build. I would much rather go to Orlando to face UCF in front of 40,000 instead of Spartanburg and play Wofford in front of 8,000.

I'm not against the top FCS schools getting together either. I was just responding to Camel City about what our best bet outside of a group of FCS schools moving together would be. I would be fine with FCS if so many good teams hadn't left over the years to be replaced by small D-2 schools.

There is just such a large difference between the schools that have left (most of them), along with the top schools currently, and the schools that have entered recently. Why else would the NCAA be looking to make it so much harder to move from D2 to D1? I'm not just talking about what happens on the field, but along the lines of fan support, financial support, facilities, and school enrolments/missions.

is that right? Where is the difference in the NAIA moveups and the DII moveups from the 70s to DI when compared to the ones that have moved up now? Huh? App, Western, UTC, ETSU, and so on. Many of those moveups have later dropped football.

Elon, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, North Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota, South Dakota State, UC Davis, Cal Poly, Presbyterian, NC Central, Savannah State, Alabama A&M, Norfolk State, Jacksonville State, Hampton

These are just examples of moveups of the the last 15 years. Of them, you have basically all of them in the top half of FCS attendance. In fact, over half this list is in the top 40, including Elon.

What the brain trust here fails to realize is the big change with D-II. Drops in scholarships, the NAIA falling apart and essentially taking in those schools. What you see are the schools with the money to move (like so many of your schools did too) up, and the schools left are the ones D-II was created for.

This whole what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander business you donkeys pull amazes me.

Why is this thread still in the FCS board?

Who gives a rat's rearend about App, GSU, and so on? No one outside of the following you have. Absolutely no one.

[Saint3333]

Who cares a rat's whatever about ASU, look in the mirror for your answer.

[Appinator]

Who gives a rat's rearend about App, GSU, and so on? No one outside of the following you have. Absolutely no one.

Whoa there kid, calm down....

Last time I checked, around 11+ posters from other schools have weighed in on the matter, so it is a matter that others have followed.

While I differ in opinions from Moody and Waco, it obviously is a matter of importance to more than a few top FCS teams. While portions of all of our posts can be twisted into "elitism", it just is a reflection of progress each program has made.

Whatever decision is made, at the end of the day, all of us want the best for our program. It's why decisions like Elon's move from DII to DI was important to you, this topic is really about the future of our program....

And to keep it going, I still don't think we should move up:D....

[CamelCityAppFan]

Big East ain't happening either Camel City.

I agree that Big East seems unlikely. I think C-USA would be a mistake. I think a brand new FBS conference made up of all FCS jumpers would be a mistake.

I think the best thing for App (or anyone in the SoCon right now) to do is to stay put and continue to at or near the top of FCS football year after year. Jumping to FBS should only be considered if a Big East-type of opportunity presented itself. I don't think C-USA quite measures up. But just my opinion, of course.

[BearsCountry]

I think you guys have way to high opinion of your school and the Southern Conference.

[Saint3333]

Some people are living in a dream world if they think ASU is jumping straight to the CUSA much less the Big East... The only FBS option for ASU is the Sun Belt or a huge conference shake up. For me this topic is something to kill time before football season. I'm going to enjoy the FCS for the next couple of years and let ASU's leadership continue to put us in a position to have options once the ban is lifted.

The SoCon > MVC/Gateway ;-).

[Waco Kid]

And here comes the elitism.... xrolleyesx



is that right? Where is the difference in the NAIA moveups and the DII moveups from the 70s to DI when compared to the ones that have moved up now? Huh? App, Western, UTC, ETSU, and so on. Many of those moveups have later dropped football.

Elon, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, North Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota, South Dakota State, UC Davis, Cal Poly, Presbyterian, NC Central, Savannah State, Alabama A&M, Norfolk State, Jacksonville State, Hampton

These are just examples of moveups of the the last 15 years. Of them, you have basically all of them in the top half of FCS attendance. In fact, over half this list is in the top 40, including Elon.

What the brain trust here fails to realize is the big change with D-II. Drops in scholarships, the NAIA falling apart and essentially taking in those schools. What you see are the schools with the money to move (like so many of your schools did too) up, and the schools left are the ones D-II was created for.

This whole what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander business you donkeys pull amazes me.

Why is this thread still in the FCS board?

Who gives a rat's rearend about App, GSU, and so on? No one outside of the following you have. Absolutely no one.


Calm down there big guy. I have nothing against Elon or anyone else for improving their situation since as you so eloquently put it most have moved up at some point. The difference is that some have the ability and desire to move up more. If you take a second to actually read what I wrote you'll notice that I was talking about the size of the fan base and school not the competition on the field. I'm not saying that Elon can't beat us or doesn't deserve to play in FCS, but fact is there is a big difference in the program (not team) in Boone and the one in Burlington. FCS as it stands today is a great fit for Elon, but I think ASU and some others are going in another direction. If you can't see the difference in playing in front of 30,000 each week vs 9,000 each week I don't know what to tell ya. Just like there is a difference between the BCS and non BCS schools. I don't think we could ever get to the BCS level, but thats fine with me. Everyone has their place and each school should strive to reach their max.

Can you honestly say that the FCS is better off without MTSU, Boise St, Marshall, UCF, USF, Troy, Nevada, WKU, ect...?

In my comments about nobody caring about Elon, Wofford, and Samford I wasn't trying to single them out. It is a fact that our fans didn't think of any of them as rivals or big games when you joined. My point was that other than a few schools out there nobody interests a fan base until you start playing them consistently. If ASU moves up a lot of people won't think of us as a big game either, but in time that would change.


As far as who cares about ASU though... I know a lot of people don't care, but ESPN thinks enough of us to include ASU in the 50 State preview on CFL, and then have updates about Armanti on several programs. They also cared enough to show a regular season game on ESPN 2 last year. Sure it is because of 1 win, but who cares as long as you're getting the pub?

[MSUBear42]

I think you guys have way to high opinion of your school and the Southern Conference.

Uh, yeah.

[gophoenix]

Calm down there big guy. I have nothing against Elon or anyone else for improving their situation since as you so eloquently put it most have moved up at some point. The difference is that some have the ability and desire to move up more. If you take a second to actually read what I wrote you'll notice that I was talking about the size of the fan base and school not the competition on the field. I'm not saying that Elon can't beat us or doesn't deserve to play in FCS, but fact is there is a big difference in the program (not team) in Boone and the one in Burlington. FCS as it stands today is a great fit for Elon, but I think ASU and some others are going in another direction. If you can't see the difference in playing in front of 30,000 each week vs 9,000 each week I don't know what to tell ya. Just like there is a difference between the BCS and non BCS schools. I don't think we could ever get to the BCS level, but thats fine with me. Everyone has their place and each school should strive to reach their max.

Can you honestly say that the FCS is better off without MTSU, Boise St, Marshall, UCF, USF, Troy, Nevada, WKU, ect...?

In my comments about nobody caring about Elon, Wofford, and Samford I wasn't trying to single them out. It is a fact that our fans didn't think of any of them as rivals or big games when you joined. My point was that other than a few schools out there nobody interests a fan base until you start playing them consistently. If ASU moves up a lot of people won't think of us as a big game either, but in time that would change.


As far as who cares about ASU though... I know a lot of people don't care, but ESPN thinks enough of us to include ASU in the 50 State preview on CFL, and then have updates about Armanti on several programs. They also cared enough to show a regular season game on ESPN 2 last year. Sure it is because of 1 win, but who cares as long as you're getting the pub?

#1 - When all the DII schools moved up, I didn't read (nor could I find) any posters blasting their existing conference or existing conference members to prove a reason to move up.

#2 - I stick by the comments about Elon, Wofford or Samford. You were, and did, single them out. Not only that, you singled out an entire other conference (The Big South). The fact that SOME of your fans don't care about the games as much as others means nothing. The games were cared about with Elon in the 1930s to 1970s, regardless of it being a big rival.

#3 - What direction is ASU going that the Elons aren't going? You're the top of FCS. You pull in an excellent crowd for FCS. And moving to FBS puts you in the bottom tier of programs (maybe not team). Your games, game day experience, and the whole deal is much more comparable to Elon and those "non top tier programs" in FCS than it is to the ACC, Big East, PAC-10, MWC, Big 10, Big 12 programs (sure there are a minority of Sun Belt, CUSA, MAC schools that are comparable to yours).

#4 - Can you honestly say that the FCS is better off without MTSU, Boise St, Marshall, UCF, USF, Troy, Nevada, WKU, ect...? Are you being serious? No one misses them. Programs fill the gaps they leave. And honestly, the play gap with FBS has only diminished with the losses of teams to FBS that don't play much above the level they were at. Who's missing these programs? They're barely mentioned outside of fans from a few schools who whine constantly about being in FCS.

#5 - Can you honestly tell me the FCS is overall worse with Elon, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, Presbyterian, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota, UC Davis, Cal Poly, Jacksonville State, Stony Brook, Norfolk State, NC Central, Winston-Salem State, Savannah State, Northern Colorado, Alabama A&M, Portland State that have come in since 1994? Some bring big crowds. Most have had season ending rankings. Some have great bands. Some have good TV deals. Are you telling me FCS is worse with these teams than FBS is with ULL, ULM, Arkansas State, FIU, FAU, Buffalo, Akron, and so on?

#6 - Who cares if some of your fans think the Elon game is a big game or not. In every conference in the country, there are teams that one schools thinks is big that another school will not. Think anyone takes Duke as a big game in football? What about Temple? There are any number of examples. So in essence, the Elon game means nothing to you, and because of that, you want to move because it doesn't But at the same time, App will mean nothing to anyone in FBS, but give it time and that'll change. That's your logic?!?! Again, what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

#6 - The ASU being cared about by ESPN is garbage. You are a regional school with regional support, no more so than any other team you feel you are better than. Heck, maybe ESPN was showcasing Wofford, and not App. The Ratings for that game were horrible, even for a cable show.

#7 - Playing in front of 30,000 or 10,000, who gives a rat's ass. It's only you guys so obsessed with size that seem to care about. My school is bigger. My band is bigger. We have bigger crowds. Cripes. Again,the experience at APP is much closer to Elon than the experience at even ACC schools, let alone compared to BCS schools.

But hey, it's really about image is what you're telling everyone. People will think more of you if you're FBS.... hey, if that floats your boat.

[gophoenix]

Whoa there kid, calm down....

Last time I checked, around 11+ posters from other schools have weighed in on the matter, so it is a matter that others have followed.

While I differ in opinions from Moody and Waco, it obviously is a matter of importance to more than a few top FCS teams. While portions of all of our posts can be twisted into "elitism", it just is a reflection of progress each program has made.

Whatever decision is made, at the end of the day, all of us want the best for our program. It's why decisions like Elon's move from DII to DI was important to you, this topic is really about the future of our program....

And to keep it going, I still don't think we should move up:D....

it's not about that, it's about this being littered on every FCS board all the time. And, most of us don't care if you move up. Stop using Elon, Wofford, Samford or any other FCS school as a scapegoat for reasons on why you're better than the rest of us. It reminds me of the frat boys walking around campus telling everyone how much better they were than everyone else.

Elitists.

[CrackerRiley]

I would like to position myself as one of those that prefers to stay in FCS. So App has had a few good years; It's not going to last forever and I understand that. I enjoy the games against Elon, Wofford, etc. because they are plenty competitive enough. I wish I could say I was a fan of App before they were tops in FCS, but I can't since I didn't start school here until '05 but I definitely didn't choose to go here because of football. I do see all of the people that have attended ASU because of the football and I can definitely say they are "elitists." I feel sorry for them and what they are going to face when App moves to FBS and has losing seasons.
The ASU campus is not going to be able to grow much larger than it is now and that is why I prefer to stay where we are because I honestly believe the top of FCS is our "max."

So, moral of story, I'm drunk and my post adds nothing worthy of discussion value. I just hope it made some sense and positions me on the side of the "good guys" who want to stay in FCS and love to play each and every team in the Southern Conference.

[ASU]

it's not about that, it's about this being littered on every FCS board all the time. And, most of us don't care if you move up. Stop using Elon, Wofford, Samford or any other FCS school as a scapegoat for reasons on why you're better than the rest of us. It reminds me of the frat boys walking around campus telling everyone how much better they were than everyone else.

Elitists.

Just like you do not care about reading what other people post.....I do not care to read what you post. Do I continuously come on here a criticize your postings or what you say? No, I flip over to something that I want to read. You might try it.

You talk about your school...when I hear that I think of a football program that seems willing to do anything to win. One that will intentionally "fall" on defenseless players laying on the ground in order to injure them. One that the coach is so all consummed with winning that he does nothing about it. This hasn't happened one year, but is a consistent intent.

So, if it would mean playing other teams that do not play the game like Elon does, that would be good to me. But, here again, that is Just my opinion.

So, when you give your opinion, I do just like you say that you do....I do not care.

[gophoenix]

Just like you do not care about reading what other people post.....I do not care to read what you post. Do I continuously come on here a criticize your postings or what you say? No, I flip over to something that I want to read. You might try it.

You talk about your school...when I hear that I think of a football program that seems willing to do anything to win. One that will intentionally "fall" on defenseless players laying on the ground in order to injure them. One that the coach is so all consummed with winning that he does nothing about it. This hasn't happened one year, but is a consistent intent.

So, if it would mean playing other teams that do not play the game like Elon does, that would be good to me. But, here again, that is Just my opinion.

So, when you give your opinion, I do just like you say that you do....I do not care.

And here we go again, more crying about stuff that didn't happen.... it reminds me of the people so intent on winning that they'll create any excuse to justify even come close to losing. There is always some reason to complain about why games were close, there is always some reason the the other team wasn't blow out. One game it is a lack oif hold calls, another game it is because of dirty play (that neither App nor Elon commentators commented on, nor media writers in general), another is because of unfair playing conditions.

You know, it's funny, you guys are the only ones to complain about the play of Elon. You don't hear it from GSU, Liberty, Furman or anyone else. Sure, they made fun of the side line scuffle in Charleston, but YOU people are the only ones complaining about a team that doesn't even come close to playing the dirtiness of Marshall. And surprise, Marshall is one of those teams you want to play with now, which goes to prove, that even this that you complain about isn't a problem, just another crying point to get attention.

Five Elon players were hurt in the 2007 App game. One was a late hit out of bounds. Another was a chop block. And while one kid was down on the field, your fans were chanting. Yeah, who has the bad team and fans here?

Some of you fans are so used to winning that you do not even know how to come close anymore, let alone lose gracefully.

Elitists

[Saint3333]

GP is obsessed with ASU and has been since Elon joined the conference, just let him rant guys, he's harmless.

[Eaglesrus]

GP is obsessed with ASU and has been since Elon joined the conference, just let him rant guys, he's harmless.

Yeah, y'all keep it up; I love a thread that has our name in the title but we don't end up being the villain of xpopcornx

[AshevilleApp2]

And here we go again, more crying about stuff that didn't happen.... it reminds me of the people so intent on winning that they'll create any excuse to justify even come close to losing. There is always some reason to complain about why games were close, there is always some reason the the other team wasn't blow out. One game it is a lack oif hold calls, another game it is because of dirty play (that neither App nor Elon commentators commented on, nor media writers in general), another is because of unfair playing conditions.

You know, it's funny, you guys are the only ones to complain about the play of Elon. You don't hear it from GSU, Liberty, Furman or anyone else. Sure, they made fun of the side line scuffle in Charleston, but YOU people are the only ones complaining about a team that doesn't even come close to playing the dirtiness of Marshall. And surprise, Marshall is one of those teams you want to play with now, which goes to prove, that even this that you complain about isn't a problem, just another crying point to get attention.

Five Elon players were hurt in the 2007 App game. One was a late hit out of bounds. Another was a chop block. And while one kid was down on the field, your fans were chanting. Yeah, who has the bad team and fans here?

Some of you fans are so used to winning that you do not even know how to come close anymore, let alone lose gracefully.

Elitists


That's Hillbilly Elitists to you pal! :p

[Saint3333]

Yeah, y'all keep it up; I love a thread that has our name in the title but we don't end up being the villain of xpopcornx

It's just too easy with GP, ASU really is his hot button. Right now ASU fans are talking pretty big and unrealistic in regards to our FBS option (if any).

I'm sure they'll be a celebration if ASU falls on its face in 2009. With the depth issue on o-line this could be a great year or a really tough year. Only 14 more days thank god we can stop talking about all this BS and get to some real football.

[Appinator]

it's not about that, it's about this being littered on every FCS board all the time. And, most of us don't care if you move up. Stop using Elon, Wofford, Samford or any other FCS school as a scapegoat for reasons on why you're better than the rest of us. It reminds me of the frat boys walking around campus telling everyone how much better they were than everyone else.

Elitists.

I was trying to explain the situation and in no way was being "elitists". I thought I was being quite cordial. But I guess that just isn't your M.O.

Dumb.

[gophoenix]

It's just too easy with GP, ASU really is his hot button. Right now ASU fans are talking pretty big and unrealistic in regards to our FBS option (if any).

I'm sure they'll be a celebration if ASU falls on its face in 2009. With the depth issue on o-line this could be a great year or a really tough year. Only 14 more days thank god we can stop talking about all this BS and get to some real football.

Nah, App isn't the hot button. Elon, Wofford and Samford seem to be a hot button to some of your fans.


I was trying to explain the situation and in no way was being "elitists". I thought I was being quite cordial. But I guess that just isn't your M.O.

Dumb.

The response isn't directed at anyone in particular. It was more open-ended questions. I'm curious about real responses to them, without the finger pointing. Of course not all fans fit a certain mold. Definitely wasn't to you. More to the fans posting like the Waco Kid.

The deal is, Elon, Wofford and Samford aren't the real reasons to move up or out. Some of your fans are going to complain no matter what it seems. First it is you aren't competitive. Fine, you compete, then it is you aren't bringing in enough fans. That starts fixing itself and they still complain. Why not complain about Western and UTC too? Overall, they've been both worse than Elon, Samford and Wofford the past decade, but pull in less fans and have about the same number of traveling fans. Why not lump them in too? Overall, Elon, Wofford and Samford seem to have more to offer, from the football perspective, than do say, teams like Northeastern. But JMU fans wanting to move up don't use Northeastern as a reason why. The really crazy thing is, Elon's home game attendance isn't as bad as Hofstra, Villanova, Rhode Island, UNH, or Northeastern and still you don't hear those fans screaming about that when JMU and Delaware have a home fan base like yours, while the rest of the conference is more like Elon.

I thought I raised some pretty valid points in the one message, most of which hasn't been answered other than to smack in another manner about the same schools being complained about from the start.

And none was directed at you, which is why I didn't quote you in any responses.

[AppMan]

Saint, Waco, and the rest of you ASU folks, this is a prime example why I decided to ignore this guy a long, long time ago. As far as FCS not being better off with the Marshall's, Boise's, and Middle Tenn's than those who replaced them, consider this. Five national championships and Eight runner ups came from that bunch. While the guys he mentioned have ZERO chanpionships and & ZERO 2nd place finishes. Heck, only 3 of the teams he mentions ever made the playoffs and only Wofford has won a playoff game. So to answer his question, yes the division would have been much better off with those programs still around.

[gophoenix]

Saint, Waco, and the rest of you ASU folks, this is a prime example why I decided to ignore this guy a long, long time ago. As far as FCS not being better off with the Marshall's, Boise's, and Middle Tenn's than those who replaced them, consider this. Five national championships and Eight runner ups came from that bunch. While the guys he mentioned have ZERO chanpionships and & ZERO 2nd place finishes. Heck, only 3 of the teams he mentions ever made the playoffs and only Wofford has won a playoff game. So to answer his question, yes the division would have been much better off with those programs still around.

Just another way to spin the facts AppMan.

Of the teams left in FCS, 25 championship games are represented by teams here while 22 runners up are represented be teams still here.

Three teams I mentioned, but you guys are all talking about D-II moveups. Of them, tell me AppMan, how many have made the playoffs? That's what you guys are complaining about. So answer me that. What about the other aspects as you only attack one aspect of the entire post I made. Wait, how about I answer it for you, 10 have of 27 teams that participate in it. And again, 18 of those 27 have been represented in top 25 polls at the year's end.

Which again, I understand. You're one of the "size" matters and image matters type of people. Makes me think, especially with you, that you're one of the prime ones compensating for something else.

BTW, you aren't ignoring me if you respond to it. xrolleyesx

So please, do us all a favor and keep ignoring, you never have anything of substance to add to this debate any time you start posting.

[Saint3333]

There used to be a really good website diaa.com that listed all the playoff teams by appearance, wins, etc. which would be good for this debate.

Obviously the teams that moved up made and won playoff games, while the teams GP mentions have not. It would be hard to argue that the FCS would not be stronger with teams like Marshall, Boise St., Nevada, Troy, MTSU, etc.

Maybe after this moratorium there should be three D1 subdivisions and have those FBS tweeners and top FCS schools in a division.

[AppMan]

#1 - When all the DII schools moved up, I didn't read (nor could I find) any posters blasting their existing conference or existing conference members to prove a reason to move up.

#2 - I stick by the comments about Elon, Wofford or Samford. You were, and did, single them out. Not only that, you singled out an entire other conference (The Big South). The fact that SOME of your fans don't care about the games as much as others means nothing. The games were cared about with Elon in the 1930s to 1970s, regardless of it being a big rival.

#3 - What direction is ASU going that the Elons aren't going? You're the top of FCS. You pull in an excellent crowd for FCS. And moving to FBS puts you in the bottom tier of programs (maybe not team). Your games, game day experience, and the whole deal is much more comparable to Elon and those "non top tier programs" in FCS than it is to the ACC, Big East, PAC-10, MWC, Big 10, Big 12 programs (sure there are a minority of Sun Belt, CUSA, MAC schools that are comparable to yours).

#4 - Can you honestly say that the FCS is better off without MTSU, Boise St, Marshall, UCF, USF, Troy, Nevada, WKU, ect...? Are you being serious? No one misses them. Programs fill the gaps they leave. And honestly, the play gap with FBS has only diminished with the losses of teams to FBS that don't play much above the level they were at. Who's missing these programs? They're barely mentioned outside of fans from a few schools who whine constantly about being in FCS.

#5 - Can you honestly tell me the FCS is overall worse with Elon, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, Presbyterian, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota, UC Davis, Cal Poly, Jacksonville State, Stony Brook, Norfolk State, NC Central, Winston-Salem State, Savannah State, Northern Colorado, Alabama A&M, Portland State that have come in since 1994? Some bring big crowds. Most have had season ending rankings. Some have great bands. Some have good TV deals. Are you telling me FCS is worse with these teams than FBS is with ULL, ULM, Arkansas State, FIU, FAU, Buffalo, Akron, and so on?

#6 - Who cares if some of your fans think the Elon game is a big game or not. In every conference in the country, there are teams that one schools thinks is big that another school will not. Think anyone takes Duke as a big game in football? What about Temple? There are any number of examples. So in essence, the Elon game means nothing to you, and because of that, you want to move because it doesn't But at the same time, App will mean nothing to anyone in FBS, but give it time and that'll change. That's your logic?!?! Again, what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

#6 - The ASU being cared about by ESPN is garbage. You are a regional school with regional support, no more so than any other team you feel you are better than. Heck, maybe ESPN was showcasing Wofford, and not App. The Ratings for that game were horrible, even for a cable show.

#7 - Playing in front of 30,000 or 10,000, who gives a rat's ass. It's only you guys so obsessed with size that seem to care about. My school is bigger. My band is bigger. We have bigger crowds. Cripes. Again,the experience at APP is much closer to Elon than the experience at even ACC schools, let alone compared to BCS schools.

But hey, it's really about image is what you're telling everyone. People will think more of you if you're FBS.... hey, if that floats your boat.

You are reading way more into my comments than you should. Again, I have no problem with you guys improving yourselves and moving up. Also, I'm not singling you guys out as THE reason we should move. I want to move because I think we have more in common with the teams that have moved up than we do with a lot of the teams currently in FCS. BTW I felt this way before we ever won a NCAA Championship and before Elon was ever in the SoCon. So much to your dismay it has very very little to do with you. I used the Big South as an example of teams in general that are in other conferences not being teams that fans get excited over. If you don't play teams consistantly its hard to get excited about them. Would you have felt better if I used the CAA or Southland? I chose the Big South because it is the closest conference nothing more.

As far as our experience being closer to Elon than the BCS... when did I ever say we were like a BCS team? If you go back and look I said we fit in better with CUSA type teams. Thank you for agreeing with me! Like it or not we have gotten exposure on ESPN lately and did have the Wofford game on TV. You might not think it is a big deal, but it made me proud to see my school mentioned on national TV along with the FBS teams in the state of NC. If Elon was the the team being mentioned you'd be proud as well. I've said that we aren't the only school at this level that deserves that kind of pub, but I guess your hate for ASU seems to block that out when you read my post.

As far as the schools that left. You changed the wording of the question from FCS being better to who misses them. Then you try to spin it into another direction by asking is it in worse shape with the new additions. To answer your question Yes the competition is worse than it was before. You can't lose that many top level teams and not see a drop off. In the future some of the new teams may become very good, but it will take a lot of time. AppMan posted the stats and it ain't even close so far. Also, how do you not see a difference in 30K and 10K?

Basically I only have one question for you. What is the difference between Elon wanting to leave D2 behind to join I-AA and our desire to leave FCS behind to go FBS? Don't start crying about we didn't use the teams around us as a reason to move. If you were happy with the competition at D2 and enjoyed playing in high school stadiums in front of 3,000 people and winning NCAA Championships why would you want to leave?


PS: ACC schools are BCS schools.

[Waco Kid]

GP,

You are reading way more into my comments than you should. Again, I have no problem with you guys improving yourselves and moving up. Also, I'm not singling you guys out as THE reason we should move. I want to move because I think we have more in common with the teams that have moved up than we do with a lot of the teams currently in FCS. BTW I felt this way before we ever won a NCAA Championship and before Elon was ever in the SoCon. So much to your dismay it has very very little to do with you. I used the Big South as an example of teams in general that are in other conferences not being teams that fans get excited over. If you don't play teams consistantly its hard to get excited about them. Would you have felt better if I used the CAA or Southland? I chose the Big South because it is the closest conference nothing more.

As far as our experience being closer to Elon than the BCS... when did I ever say we were like a BCS team? If you go back and look I said we fit in better with CUSA type teams. Thank you for agreeing with me! Like it or not we have gotten exposure on ESPN lately and did have the Wofford game on TV. You might not think it is a big deal, but it made me proud to see my school mentioned on national TV along with the FBS teams in the state of NC. If Elon was the the team being mentioned you'd be proud as well. I've said that we aren't the only school at this level that deserves that kind of pub, but I guess your hate for ASU seems to block that out when you read my post.

As far as the schools that left. You changed the wording of the question from FCS being better to who misses them. Then you try to spin it into another direction by asking is it in worse shape with the new additions. To answer your question Yes the competition is worse than it was before. You can't lose that many top level teams and not see a drop off. In the future some of the new teams may become very good, but it will take a lot of time. AppMan posted the stats and it ain't even close so far. Also, how do you not see a difference in 30K and 10K?

Basically I only have one question for you. What is the difference between Elon wanting to leave D2 behind to join I-AA and our desire to leave FCS behind to go FBS? Don't start crying about we didn't use the teams around us as a reason to move. If you were happy with the competition at D2 and enjoyed playing in high school stadiums in front of 3,000 people and winning NCAA Championships why would you want to leave?


PS: ACC schools are BCS schools.

[Waco Kid]

There used to be a really good website diaa.com that listed all the playoff teams by appearance, wins, etc. which would be good for this debate.

Obviously the teams that moved up made and won playoff games, while the teams GP mentions have not. It would be hard to argue that the FCS would not be stronger with teams like Marshall, Boise St., Nevada, Troy, MTSU, etc.

Maybe after this moratorium there should be three D1 subdivisions and have those FBS tweeners and top FCS schools in a division.

That would be fine with me.

[dprichar]

Saint, Waco, and the rest of you ASU folks, this is a prime example why I decided to ignore this guy a long, long time ago. As far as FCS not being better off with the Marshall's, Boise's, and Middle Tenn's than those who replaced them, consider this. Five national championships and Eight runner ups came from that bunch. While the guys he mentioned have ZERO chanpionships and & ZERO 2nd place finishes. Heck, only 3 of the teams he mentions ever made the playoffs and only Wofford has won a playoff game. So to answer his question, yes the division would have been much better off with those programs still around.

I don't want to jump into the bloodbath but we won a playoff game in 05 and North Dakota State would have made the playoffs if they weren't in transition.

[proasu89]

GP,

You are reading way more into my comments than you should. Again, I have no problem with you guys improving yourselves and moving up. Also, I'm not singling you guys out as THE reason we should move. I want to move because I think we have more in common with the teams that have moved up than we do with a lot of the teams currently in FCS. BTW I felt this way before we ever won a NCAA Championship and before Elon was ever in the SoCon. So much to your dismay it has very very little to do with you. I used the Big South as an example of teams in general that are in other conferences not being teams that fans get excited over. If you don't play teams consistantly its hard to get excited about them. Would you have felt better if I used the CAA or Southland? I chose the Big South because it is the closest conference nothing more.

As far as our experience being closer to Elon than the BCS... when did I ever say we were like a BCS team? If you go back and look I said we fit in better with CUSA type teams. Thank you for agreeing with me! Like it or not we have gotten exposure on ESPN lately and did have the Wofford game on TV. You might not think it is a big deal, but it made me proud to see my school mentioned on national TV along with the FBS teams in the state of NC. If Elon was the the team being mentioned you'd be proud as well. I've said that we aren't the only school at this level that deserves that kind of pub, but I guess your hate for ASU seems to block that out when you read my post.

As far as the schools that left. You changed the wording of the question from FCS being better to who misses them. Then you try to spin it into another direction by asking is it in worse shape with the new additions. To answer your question Yes the competition is worse than it was before. You can't lose that many top level teams and not see a drop off. In the future some of the new teams may become very good, but it will take a lot of time. AppMan posted the stats and it ain't even close so far. Also, how do you not see a difference in 30K and 10K?

Basically I only have one question for you. What is the difference between Elon wanting to leave D2 behind to join I-AA and our desire to leave FCS behind to go FBS? Don't start crying about we didn't use the teams around us as a reason to move. If you were happy with the competition at D2 and enjoyed playing in high school stadiums in front of 3,000 people and winning NCAA Championships why would you want to leave?


PS: ACC schools are BCS schools.

xthumbsupx

[AppMan]

I don't want to jump into the bloodbath but we won a playoff game in 05 and North Dakota State would have made the playoffs if they weren't in transition.

My bad. Two of those teams have won a playoff game. But the fhe fact is NDS didn't make the playoffs, regardless of the reason.

[phoenix3]

GP,

You are reading way more into my comments than you should. Again, I have no problem with you guys improving yourselves and moving up. Also, I'm not singling you guys out as THE reason we should move. I want to move because I think we have more in common with the teams that have moved up than we do with a lot of the teams currently in FCS. BTW I felt this way before we ever won a NCAA Championship and before Elon was ever in the SoCon. So much to your dismay it has very very little to do with you. I used the Big South as an example of teams in general that are in other conferences not being teams that fans get excited over. If you don't play teams consistantly its hard to get excited about them. Would you have felt better if I used the CAA or Southland? I chose the Big South because it is the closest conference nothing more.

As far as our experience being closer to Elon than the BCS... when did I ever say we were like a BCS team? If you go back and look I said we fit in better with CUSA type teams. Thank you for agreeing with me! Like it or not we have gotten exposure on ESPN lately and did have the Wofford game on TV. You might not think it is a big deal, but it made me proud to see my school mentioned on national TV along with the FBS teams in the state of NC. If Elon was the the team being mentioned you'd be proud as well. I've said that we aren't the only school at this level that deserves that kind of pub, but I guess your hate for ASU seems to block that out when you read my post.

As far as the schools that left. You changed the wording of the question from FCS being better to who misses them. Then you try to spin it into another direction by asking is it in worse shape with the new additions. To answer your question Yes the competition is worse than it was before. You can't lose that many top level teams and not see a drop off. In the future some of the new teams may become very good, but it will take a lot of time. AppMan posted the stats and it ain't even close so far. Also, how do you not see a difference in 30K and 10K?

Basically I only have one question for you. What is the difference between Elon wanting to leave D2 behind to join I-AA and our desire to leave FCS behind to go FBS? Don't start crying about we didn't use the teams around us as a reason to move. If you were happy with the competition at D2 and enjoyed playing in high school stadiums in front of 3,000 people and winning NCAA Championships why would you want to leave?


PS: ACC schools are BCS schools.

I don't know if it will be in my lifetime, but I'm not so sure that Elon won't be havint that debate at some point in the future. Elon has made and is making a significant philosophical and monetary investment in sports. Here's an excerpt from a recen interview with Elon's President Leo Lambert:

"If we want to be a national institution, athletics needs to be playing at a national level, and we're seeing some of that success in the Sothrn Conference, most recently with baseball. We want to see NCAA tournament appearances in men's and women's basketball. And we are so close to postseason play in football we can taste it. We also want to build a multipurpose convocation center. These are all relly exciting challenges fr the university but ones I'm confident we can meet."

Things change. A lot of us on this board have made statements about App leaving like "good riddance" and "the sooner the better", etc. But truthfully, the SoCon has been a dynamic conference over the years and I certainly don't expect the member institutions to be the same in 10 years. If App does leave for the FBS in the future, I'm sure the early going will be tough, but I, quite frankly, will be cheering for them to be a top level contender. But, while App is in the SoCon, I hope we pound you in every game in every sport.xsmiley_wix

[JDC325]

I think you guys have way to high opinion of your school and the Southern Conference.

All the NC trophies and playoff wins seem to warp our perception sorry. xrulesx

BTW everyone has a greater opinion of their school and conference it is part of being an irrational college football fan that posts on message boards. xlolx

[JDC325]

There used to be a really good website diaa.com that listed all the playoff teams by appearance, wins, etc. which would be good for this debate.

Obviously the teams that moved up made and won playoff games, while the teams GP mentions have not. It would be hard to argue that the FCS would not be stronger with teams like Marshall, Boise St., Nevada, Troy, MTSU, etc.

Maybe after this moratorium there should be three D1 subdivisions and have those FBS tweeners and top FCS schools in a division.

http://petespoll.com/petesiaaplayoff.shtml

Scroll to the bottom

[Cocky]

Look forward to see you guys in the FBS someday. We will be there waiting on you unless you act by real quick.

[Saint3333]

Where is JSU going?

[MarchingMountaineer]

All the NC trophies and playoff wins seem to warp our perception sorry. xrulesx


xthumbsupx

And for my 2 cents: FCS teams moving to non-BCS conferences might get invited to play one game for $500K after the season. I'd rather they schedule one BCS school during the season for a guaranteed $400K - win (Michigan) or lose (LSU) - and still participates in a real playoff for a NC. 2007 was a lot of fun, no additional investment required.

The Rock needed some fixing, but now it's ESPN-friendly, and is just as likely to garner TV coverage for a FCS playoff game as playing in the Papajohns.com Bowl for $150K.

[Cocky]

Where is JSU going?
FBS

[AppMan]

Just another way to spin the facts AppMan.

Of the teams left in FCS, 25 championship games are represented by teams here while 22 runners up are represented be teams still here.

Three teams I mentioned, but you guys are all talking about D-II moveups. Of them, tell me AppMan, how many have made the playoffs? That's what you guys are complaining about. So answer me that. What about the other aspects as you only attack one aspect of the entire post I made. Wait, how about I answer it for you, 10 have of 27 teams that participate in it. And again, 18 of those 27 have been represented in top 25 polls at the year's end.

Which again, I understand. You're one of the "size" matters and image matters type of people. Makes me think, especially with you, that you're one of the prime ones compensating for something else.

BTW, you aren't ignoring me if you respond to it. xrolleyesx

So please, do us all a favor and keep ignoring, you never have anything of substance to add to this debate any time you start posting.


What do you mean "Just another way to spin the facts?" You asked a question and I addressed it in a simple, concise, and clearly understandable manner. However, it obviously wasn’t simple enough for you to wrap your brain around. The only possible way to look at your question is to compare the accomplishments of programs which left to those that REPLACED them. Not the programs left in the division. That is just plain moronic! Then, as you always do, you resort to insults and childish babbling that confirms what most already think of you. You are embarrassing your school and fellow Elon supporters.

[AppMan]

All the NC trophies and playoff wins seem to warp our perception sorry. xrulesx. xlolx

That is an awesome nail on the head response!

[Saint3333]

FBS

How and what conference? I don't understand why you are so confident?

[Cocky]

How and what conference? I don't understand why you are so confident?

Our BOT is dead set on going FBS no matter what you or I think. They will go indy if they have to.
Unless the NCAA stop us we will be going FBS ASAP

[Saint3333]

More power to you guys, but without the monetary support your BOT is sending a one legged man into a butt kicking contest.

[Cocky]

We are spending 60+ million right now on athletic improvements so it appears they are committing the money. The university is very solid financially so we will have to wait for the outcome but from looking at other schools that have made the move it appears possible.

[Saint3333]

ASU just did the same and is likely in a better position from scholarship donations and obviously attendance revenue. However ASU would likely need to increase donations and overall budget 50% to make the move. Of course I'm biased but I'd say ASU is in a better position to make the move and IMO ASU isn't ready financially yet.

[Cocky]

Not sure of ASU situation but our BOT appears to feel we are ready. The university is financial sound so I don't think funds are the issue. I just hope, if we continue with the move, that we are better prepared than we were for our move from DII.
Unless we have a leadership change the feel around JSU is we will be moving ASAP.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What a difference 3 or 4 years makes. xcoolx

Bumped

[walliver]

What a difference 3 or 4 years makes. xcoolx

Bumped

There aren't enough ASU/GSU/SBC threads, I'm glad we have another.

JSU seems to have been left behind.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No offense to any SB guy, or Sunbelt wannabe, but I don't want to be associated with that Conference, athletically or academically. Not a knock on them, they are what they are, but ASU has worked hard for its academic reputation in the Region, and I don't believe these schools share the same values. Plus I'm really intrigued by a conference in the Carolinas/Va with maybe some other good schools

From this to "The Sun Belt brings up our academic profile". Interesting.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What a difference 3 or 4 years makes. xcoolx

Bumped

xlolx

I was gonna go looking for one of these threads because a lot of the opinions have changed and wanted to quote a couple of guys on here a few weeks back.

Thanks for doing the work pwns.

[Apps03]

From this to "The Sun Belt brings up our academic profile". Interesting.

You are getting really out of hand with your reaching for something, anything to make your point. You do realize that there can be different opinions within a single fanbase, right?

[ASUMountaineer]

You are getting really out of hand with your reaching for something, anything to make your point. You do realize that there can be different opinions within a single fanbase, right?

The problem he has is with opinions different from his.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You are getting really out of hand with your reaching for something, anything to make your point. You do realize that there can be different opinions within a single fanbase, right?

Same thing I was thinking. If you are quoting one guy and arguing with that same poster then it makes sense otherwise it does not have anything in common. I just didn't feel like searching that particular users posts to see if he was making that argument somewhere else that I was unaware of.

[ASUMountaineer]

xlolx

I was gonna go looking for one of these threads because a lot of the opinions have changed and wanted to quote a couple of guys on here a few weeks back.

Thanks for doing the work pwns.

As long as some of us have been on AGS, I'd bet you could find some real doozies if you went back through all of the posts. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As long as some of us have been on AGS, I'd bet you could find some real doozies if you went back through all of the posts. xlolx

I used to do that to PFL all the time. She would go on about how her financial situation was because of something that had happened by someone else just recently and was the reason she couldn't afford health insurance and be griping about it and I'd go grab a post from a few months earlier where she had just bought a new flat screen and new laptop.

Foundation of argument quickly crumbles at that point. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

I used to do that to PFL all the time. She would go on about how her financial situation was because of something that had happened by someone else just recently and was the reason she couldn't afford health insurance and be griping about it and I'd go grab a post from a few months earlier where she had just bought a new flat screen and new laptop.

Foundation of argument quickly crumbles at that point. xlolx

Those were the days!

http://www.dxdvds.net/images/upload/201110/image/All_in_the_Family_box_set_1_8.jpg

[Go Apps]

Didn't a study just come out saying that GSU would drive themselves into financial ruin in making a move like that?

App would also go from a positive to a negative - very few programs make any money = stupid move for ASU - they will disappear into oblivioun, along with Marshall and Troy State

[SoCon2013]

What do you mean "Just another way to spin the facts?" You asked a question and I addressed it in a simple, concise, and clearly understandable manner. However, it obviously wasn’t simple enough for you to wrap your brain around. The only possible way to look at your question is to compare the accomplishments of programs which left to those that REPLACED them. Not the programs left in the division. That is just plain moronic! Then, as you always do, you resort to insults and childish babbling that confirms what most already think of you. You are embarrassing your school and fellow Elon supporters.

He always has, Doug. Even when he posts under other screen names.

[ASUMountaineer]

App would also go from a positive to a negative - very few programs FBS and FCS schools make any money = stupid move for ASU...

FIFY.

Please provide the financial studies that you have to verify your claim that ASU will "go from a positive to a negative?" Are you speaking explicitly about finances? Is this your opinion?


they will disappear into oblivioun, along with Marshall and Troy State

This is a ridiculous statement. Are you comparing this state of oblivion that Marshall and Troy State reside in as a lower state of oblivion than SoCon schools? Have you measured this state of oblivion?

The problem with such statements is that anyone can say anything. If these are your opinions, then you shouldn't hold them out as facts. Ursus and I had a discussion on another thread the past few days that involved this subject. Such a discussion is beneficial and welcomed, but all participants have to begin by admitting that they don't have all of the necessary information to make an adequate determination, and that they are mostly dealing with opinions based off of very few known facts.

[WH49er]

I think the biggest issue most posters on here have with the App fans, isn't their possible move to FBS. It's more of some App fans calling FCS "irrelevant" or say or continually saying it is "dying" but yet they will continue pimp their 3-peat and SoCon championships. Have to pick one or the other.



Honest question to App and GA Southern fans, if CUSA takes WKU, Ark State, and ULL will the Sun Belt be any better than the SoCon? Are the possible TV revenues going to justify the increased expenses?

[ASUMountaineer]

I think the biggest issue most posters on here have with the App fans, isn't their possible move to FBS. It's more of some App fans calling FCS "irrelevant" or say or continually saying it is "dying" but yet they will continue pimp their 3-peat and SoCon championships. Have to pick one or the other.

Why? I don't denigrate the SoCon or FCS because there's no reason to. App State's admin is pursuing the strategy that they feel is most appropriate for ASU, and they have much more data than I do to make such a decision. There's no need to quit being proud of the FCS accomplishments just because the school may join an FBS conference. I don't like that some our fans refer to the SoCon and FCS in such terms, but to each their own.

Honest question to App and GA Southern fans, if CUSA takes WKU, Ark State, and ULL will the Sun Belt be any better than the SoCon? Are the possible TV revenues going to justify the increased expenses?

I don't know. I am sure that our administration is considering such a scenario and will run the numbers. It's also hard to say without knowing which additional FCS schools would be invited and would join.

[cbarrier90]

I think the biggest issue most posters on here have with the App fans, isn't their possible move to FBS. It's more of some App fans calling FCS "irrelevant" or say or continually saying it is "dying" but yet they will continue pimp their 3-peat and SoCon championships. Have to pick one or the other.

The issue is that the SOUTHERN CONFERENCE isn't what it once was, and their idea of building a conference of "Southern Ivies" doesn't suit what ASU wants to do. Since 2009, the SoCon has gone from SportSouth to PBS to exclusively online. The SoCon at this point favors a Davidson much more than it favors an ASU.


Honest question to App and GA Southern fans, if CUSA takes WKU, Ark State, and ULL will the Sun Belt be any better than the SoCon? Are the possible TV revenues going to justify the increased expenses?

Yes. Basketball gets an increase in Conference RPI, especially when you consider that Charleston, the team that just played in the SoCon final is leaving and Davidson will go through another rebuild as they graduate a few very productive seniors. Baseball takes a slight hit, but nothing too significant.

While Tuesday night games aren't ideal, ASU gets that national TV revenue in the fall that the SoCon doesn't. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know all the specifics, but just on the surface, it LOOKS like the SoCon is trending backwards, meaning IMO it would be better for ASU to get out, especially if they can move with GSU.

Unrelated, but I'm curious to hear Charlotte fans' opinions of moving from far and away the best mid-major basketball conference in the country to a very disappointing C-USA...

[WH49er]

Yes. Basketball gets an increase in Conference RPI, especially when you consider that Charleston, the team that just played in the SoCon final is leaving and Davidson will go through another rebuild as they graduate a few very productive seniors. Baseball takes a slight hit, but nothing too significant.

Unrelated, but I'm curious to hear Charlotte fans' opinions of moving from far and away the best mid-major basketball conference in the country to a very disappointing C-USA...




With MTSU and possibly WKU moving away, I think it's possible that SoCon maybe right there with SunBelt as far as basketball goes. I would also think App would have a better chance of getting better crowds playing local teams like Davidson, Elon, and WCU rather than Troy, Ark-LR, and Georgia State.



For Charlotte, it is us somewhat upsetting that we are changing conferences based on the strength of the A-10 this year but with Xavier, Temple, Dayton, St. Louis and Butler leaving for will be the Big East there is really no one other than VCU to be excited about. Between Charlotte, UAB, ODU, WKU (possible), USM, MTSU and UTEP we should be able to get 2-3 bids out of that conference each year. What is left of the A-10 should be one bid most years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes. Basketball gets an increase in Conference RPI, especially when you consider that Charleston, the team that just played in the SoCon final is leaving and Davidson will go through another rebuild as they graduate a few very productive seniors. Baseball takes a slight hit, but nothing too significant.

SoCon and Sun Belt are one-bid leagues. In Bracketology this season, the Sun Belt's champ, WKU, is in danger of falling into the PIG game as the 16 seed while Davidson, now and into the future a member of the SoCon, is projected as the 12th seed.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

[ASUMountaineer]

SoCon and Sun Belt are one-bid leagues. In Bracketology this season, the Sun Belt's champ, WKU, is in danger of falling into the PIG game as the 16 seed while Davidson, now and into the future a member of the SoCon, is projected as the 12th seed.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

With all due respect, Davidson has proven that it's worthy of a seed higher than 16, and the PIG. If a team other than Davidson, which was very possible on Sunday evening, had won the SoCon then that team would likely have been in the same position as WKU.

[Saint3333]

If the Belt loses three members, worst case is they have an eastern division made up of FCS programs, something many App fans wouldn't mind as what we really wanted at one point for a new FBS conference of mid-atlantic/southern FCS/transitional programs.

[MplsBison]

Middle Tennessee might have a decent shot at an at-large this year, in addition to WKU getting the auto.

Only lost one regular season conf game, in OT, lost to Belmont, Akron and Florida - probably all of which going to the tourny.

[cbarrier90]

SoCon and Sun Belt are one-bid leagues. In Bracketology this season, the Sun Belt's champ, WKU, is in danger of falling into the PIG game as the 16 seed while Davidson, now and into the future a member of the SoCon, is projected as the 12th seed.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

Davidson also only lost 1 SoCon game in conference, but had ASU shocked them in Asheville in the semis, they probably wouldn't be in the tournament today. As ASUM said, because they're in, their record will get them a better seed than 16.

That's the thing about the SoCon that never changes: If you don't win the tournament, you don't get in. If you have a season like Davidson had this year or like ASU had in 2007, the chance for an at-large bid is much greater in the Sun Belt than the SoCon because of the RPI discrepancy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Davidson also only lost 1 SoCon game in conference, but had ASU shocked them in Asheville in the semis, they probably wouldn't be in the tournament today. As ASUM said, because they're in, their record will get them a better seed than 16.

That's the thing about the SoCon that never changes: If you don't win the tournament, you don't get in. If you have a season like Davidson had this year or like ASU had in 2007, the chance for an at-large bid is much greater in the Sun Belt than the SoCon because of the RPI discrepancy.

And the Sun Belt is different how?

[Saint3333]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.

That's incorrect because LFN doesn't want to believe it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.

Wake me up when they actually make it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Belt_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament


The Sun Belt has a storied basketball history, sending multiple teams into the NCAA tournament in the 1980s and 1990s (most recently 1994), and then again in 2008 when both regular season champion South Alabama, and tournament winner Western Kentucky received bids.

Basically you're saying twice in the last fifteen years is better than zero.

Of note: WKU and South Alabama in 2008 were both 25 win teams and both were 10 and 12 seeds respectively.

[ASUMountaineer]

Wake me up when they actually make it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Belt_Conference_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament



Basically you're saying twice in the last fifteen years is better than zero.

Of note: WKU and South Alabama in 2008 were both 25 win teams and both were 10 and 12 seeds respectively.

Why do you care so much about App State potentially, possibly, maybe-but-maybe-not moving to the Sun Belt? I sincerely don't get it.

[superman7515]

Why do you care so much about App State potentially, possibly, maybe-but-maybe-not moving to the Sun Belt? I sincerely don't get it.

And most importantly to this board, how will it affect the Patriot League?

[PaladinFan]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.

I mean, not to state the obvious, but the SoCon is awful in basketball. I mean, even in good years the conference was just bad.

[MplsBison]

Why do you care so much about App State potentially, possibly, maybe-but-maybe-not moving to the Sun Belt? I sincerely don't get it.

It waters down FCS, making it even that much more easily dismissed in the same breath as DII and DIII.

College football fans in Pennslyvania probably already talk about Pitt, Penn State and Temple being the "Division I football schools" in the state while thinking of Duquesne, Lehigh, Lafayette as being in the same division as the PSAC teams.

[asumike83]

Basically you're saying twice in the last fifteen years is better than zero.

Of note: WKU and South Alabama in 2008 were both 25 win teams and both were 10 and 12 seeds respectively.

Are you saying that a 10%-15% chance of getting an at-large bid is NOT better than zero?

In 2007, Appalachian won 25 games, went 15-3 in the SoCon, handed Davidson their lone SoCon loss at Davidson and got non-conference wins over Vanderbilt, VCU and UVA, all of whom were tournament teams. We lost to Charleston in the conference tournament (which was held in Charleston) and weren't even a bubble team.

[Saint3333]

So in summary for lehigh fan, yes 2 > 0.

Tomorrow we will be learning about the letter "L" and I encourage you to bring a toy or something personal relating to this letter.

[WH49er]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.



Yes but the top 3 teams this year RPI wise will be in CUSA in the future. SunBelt basketball will be on par with the SoCon.

[Saint3333]

Only two as of today, and two of the bottom four will be gone as well.

SoCon is losing its second best program.

Both CUSA and Sun Belt will be weaker basketball conferences in 2015, but both will still be above the SoCon.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I mean, not to state the obvious, but the SoCon is awful in basketball. I mean, even in good years the conference was just bad.


Are you saying that a 10%-15% chance of getting an at-large bid is NOT better than zero?

In 2007, Appalachian won 25 games, went 15-3 in the SoCon, handed Davidson their lone SoCon loss at Davidson and got non-conference wins over Vanderbilt, VCU and UVA, all of whom were tournament teams. We lost to Charleston in the conference tournament (which was held in Charleston) and weren't even a bubble team.

For the record I thought App should have been in the tournament with that record, and Davidson should have been in the tournament in Curry's senior year, too, in 2009.

But more importantly I'm saying that the Sun Belt's record of two multi-bid seasons in 15 years and Davidson's Elite 8 run are just about the same, both money-wise and perception-wise. Arguing that the Sun Belt provides a significant jump in basketball is ridiculous. The Patriot League, Sun Belt, and SoCon are all in the same area, one-bid leagues that occasionally get all the way up to a 12 (or 9 seed in the case of Bucknell) and get pretty much the same amount of money and notoriety.

This is not like C-USA that, despite losing its top teams this year, has had a history of multi-bids to the NCAA tournament.

[GSUsTALON]

I am very torn about GSU leaving FCS to the Sun Belt. I was at GSU when we first started our football program and have enjoyed our success at this level. The SoCon has more National Championship winners than any other conference & App & GSU always seem to be in the hunt for a playoff berth and another shot at a FCS title. I love the playoff system and the chance for 20 of the “proven” best teams in the country to face off. I believe that our FCS playoff system is far superior than playing in a bowl game that was given to you as a consolation prize in lieu of playing in the FBS national title game. If and when we move the best GSU has to look forward to in the SB is a conference championship and “most likely” lower level bowl appearance and then the season is over.

On the flip side if GSU & ASU do enter the SB with the school administrations and athletic departments understanding that the SB is to be used as a Initial FBS marketing tool for the establishment of the FBS logo I may be more apt to support the move. Many on the board have already stated the difficulty of a FCS team in moving to a better known FBS conference. I think if GSU and if App follows and pays their dues in the FBS Sun Belt that they would be in a better position to transfer to another FBS conference “IF” and “WHEN” the opportunity arises. No matter when GSU or App move to any FBS conference they will have to pay their dues to earn the FBS label and respect of other programs. I guess my big question is how long that would take and what other conference would notice?

[asumike83]

For the record I thought App should have been in the tournament with that record, and Davidson should have been in the tournament in Curry's senior year, too, in 2009.

But more importantly I'm saying that the Sun Belt's record of two multi-bid seasons in 15 years and Davidson's Elite 8 run are just about the same, both money-wise and perception-wise. Arguing that the Sun Belt provides a significant jump in basketball is ridiculous. The Patriot League, Sun Belt, and SoCon are all in the same area, one-bid leagues that occasionally get all the way up to a 12 (or 9 seed in the case of Bucknell) and get pretty much the same amount of money and notoriety.

I did too, I thought we earned it but took a couple bad conference losses.

I'm not sure if I'd say the SBC will be a drastic basketball upgrade when all the dust settles but it will be an improvement over the SoCon. Basketball is obviously not the motivating factor in the move but I do think our hoops program would benefit. The top programs in each conference are fairly comparable, the difference is that the Sun Belt does not consistently have 300+ RPI teams at the bottom of the league that drag down the conference RPI.

It is tough to schedule good OOC competition at home as a SoCon member (unless you dominate the conference like Davidson) because none of the quality mid-major programs want anything to do with a team that can kill their computer numbers even with a road win. Sure, we can get money games by teams who's conference SOS will get them in regardless but I'd like to get some good mid-major programs to visit Boone. Hopefully, we could do that if we played in a conference with a higher basketball RPI.

[cbarrier90]

I mean, not to state the obvious, but the SoCon is awful in basketball. I mean, even in good years the conference was just bad.

Exactly. One cannot appreciate the conference's futility unless they experience it firsthand.

[Apphole]

Yes but the top 3 teams this year RPI wise will be in CUSA in the future. SunBelt basketball will be on par with the SoCon.
Those teams departing for CUSA (not including WKU) also happen to occupy the very bottom of the conference in football as the SBC trends upward/CUSA trends downward on the grid iron. We all know that App is moving primarily for football. A lateral or slight increase in our conference BBall strength is moot.

Even still, jumping 12 conferences in RPI is absolutely an improvement, even if we're so low on the totem poll that neither league really has a shot at multiple Tourny bids. Are you suggesting that losing USA and WKU will drop the SBC 12 spots or more since the SoCon will likely slide after losing C of C?

[WH49er]

Even still, jumping 12 conferences in RPI is absolutely an improvement, even if we're so low on the totem poll that neither league really has a shot at multiple Tourny bids. Are you suggesting that losing USA and WKU will drop the SBC 12 spots or more since the SoCon will likely slide after losing C of C?


Just for historical reference, the 3 previous years they were 19, 21, 23 in conference RPI. They may not slide to SoCon level but it won't be far off. Being ranked the 25th conference versus the 29th doesn't matter when you are a one bid league.

Team's RPI this year:

27 Middle Tennessee (Leaving for CUSA)
114 Florida International (Leaving for CUSA)
155 Western Kentucky (Possibly leaving)
157 South Alabama
162 Arkansas St.
177 Arkansas Little Rock
217 Florida Atlantic (Leaving for CUSA)
220 Louisiana Lafayette
253 North Texas (Leaving for CUSA)
275 Troy
309 Louisiana Monroe


2013 Additions:

287 Texas St.
211 Georgia St


Possible Additions:

259 Appalachian St.
268 Georgia Southern

[Southern Bison]

So in summary for lehigh fan, yes 2 > 0.

Tomorrow we will be learning about the letter "L" and I encourage you to bring a toy or something personal relating to this letter.

Be careful Saint...the letter "L" when turned on it's side...well, we could all get suspended by Ursus.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3mK0J9Pe7zwaX8MO3dzH3wYVHL5sGX-5mMVENyMu0rhy6SK4D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Be careful Saint...the letter "L" when turned on it's side...well, we could all get suspended by Ursus.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3mK0J9Pe7zwaX8MO3dzH3wYVHL5sGX-5mMVENyMu0rhy6SK4D

Don't worry bout it, that SOB ain't got the guts to suspend diddly squat.

[walliver]

...

SoCon is losing its second best program.

...

CofC may have been a marquee program and was consistently good, but rarely great. Only 1 SoCon championship in 15 years. CofC wasn't the same after Kresse retired.

Losing Davidson WOULD hurt, though. But, too be honest, Davidson has de-emphasized athletics (except BB) and all of their olympic sports play at Wofford's level (or below).:(

[ASUMountaineer]

For the record I thought App should have been in the tournament with that record, and Davidson should have been in the tournament in Curry's senior year, too, in 2009.

But more importantly I'm saying that the Sun Belt's record of two multi-bid seasons in 15 years and Davidson's Elite 8 run are just about the same, both money-wise and perception-wise. Arguing that the Sun Belt provides a significant jump in basketball is ridiculous. The Patriot League, Sun Belt, and SoCon are all in the same area, one-bid leagues that occasionally get all the way up to a 12 (or 9 seed in the case of Bucknell) and get pretty much the same amount of money and notoriety.

This is not like C-USA that, despite losing its top teams this year, has had a history of multi-bids to the NCAA tournament.

Why do you care so much about App State potentially, possibly, maybe-but-maybe-not moving to the Sun Belt? I sincerely don't get it.

[Laker]

Be careful Saint...the letter "L" when turned on it's side...well, we could all get suspended by Ursus.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3mK0J9Pe7zwaX8MO3dzH3wYVHL5sGX-5mMVENyMu0rhy6SK4D

If he had taken another bite or two it would have looked like Idaho.

[Saint3333]

CofC may have been a marquee program and was consistently good, but rarely great. Only 1 SoCon championship in 15 years. CofC wasn't the same after Kresse retired.

Losing Davidson WOULD hurt, though. But, too be honest, Davidson has de-emphasized athletics (except BB) and all of their olympic sports play at Wofford's level (or below).:(

CofC since they have been in the SoCon may not have the 2nd most titles, but I'd wager have been 2nd in overall RPI since they joined, which is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

[Southern Bison]

Don't worry bout it, that SOB ain't got the guts to suspend diddly squat.

Grizo get you neutered a while back?

If you want to feel like there is something in your sack, check out this website for dogs: http://www.neuticles.com/

[IBleedYellow]

Holy Necro batman!

Funny how all of those anti FBS guys are now PRO PRO PRO FBS after 3-4 years of doing their research. That or brainwashed.

[dbackjon]

Well this year the Sun Belt is ranked 15th in RPI and has a legit shot at a second team in the dance (this means twice the $$$) and the SoCon is 26th and has NEVER put two teams in the dance.

The only way the Sunbelt was EVER going to get a second team in the dance is if MTSU lost in tourney (which they did), and gets an at-large bid (which is doubtful, but could happen depending on how other bubble teams do.

The last two Sunbelt champs have been in the 16-seed play-in game (i.e. one of four worst teams in the tourney). WKU could make it three years in a row. At best, they will be a 16 seed.

[MplsBison]

The only way the Sunbelt was EVER going to get a second team in the dance is if MTSU lost in tourney (which they did), and gets an at-large bid (which is doubtful, but could happen depending on how other bubble teams do.

The last two Sunbelt champs have been in the 16-seed play-in game (i.e. one of four worst teams in the tourney). WKU could make it three years in a row. At best, they will be a 16 seed.

What seed would MT get if they got an at-large?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Grizo get you neutered a while back?

If you want to feel like there is something in your sack, check out this website for dogs: http://www.neuticles.com/

Thanks man. I had no idea what you were talking about when I asked what your profession was but posting that link now puts it in perspective as to what a nueticle cleaner is. Appreciate it.

[Southern Bison]

How the hell does my profession have to do with nueticles or the cleaning of them? Doesn't Screamin' Beagle_174 give the undercarriage a good tongue bath each season?

[344Johnson]

The only way the Sunbelt was EVER going to get a second team in the dance is if MTSU lost in tourney (which they did), and gets an at-large bid (which is doubtful, but could happen depending on how other bubble teams do.

The last two Sunbelt champs have been in the 16-seed play-in game (i.e. one of four worst teams in the tourney). WKU could make it three years in a row. At best, they will be a 16 seed.

So basically, the Sunbelt is a lot like the Big Sky if anyone other than Weber or Montana won?

[WH49er]

What seed would MT get if they got an at-large?


I would say a 12 or 13

[dbackjon]

What seed would MT get if they got an at-large?

If they get an at-large, they would be in the 12-seed play-in game

[dbackjon]

So basically, the Sunbelt is a lot like the Big Sky if anyone other than Weber or Montana won?

Yes - but no one is saying that the Big Sky is god's gift to Men's Basketball