Around FCS: Big South looking for playoff respect

[CSN Log]

08-07-2009 03:58 PM

Around FCS: Big South looking for playoff respect

Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - Eight months might have passed when the Big South Conference gathered for its annual football media event on the final day of July, but the coaches of this fledgling Football Championship Subdivision league were still bristling about how its 2008 champion, Liberty had been left out of the playoffs.

“There is no way that Liberty should have been left out of the playoffs,” said Gardner-Webb’s Steve Patton, the dean of Big South coaches, who echoed the sentiment of almost. “Everyone said that Elon was in with a win and Liberty goes and dominates them and gets left out. How can you tell me that was fair?”

Read more ... (http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/08/07/around-fcs-big-south-looking-for-playoff?blog=2#more5304)

[kdinva]

2009 Big South FB (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/newstest.aspx?id=4246841)

It's gonna be a fun season!!

[Seawolf97]

Good article! Should be fun season.

[Libertine]

He picks Coastal to finish 6th? Seriously?

[SUUTbird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zrKUpC6lFg


Found this on youtube, shows a great preview xthumbsupx

[The Cats]

I think the losses to PC & Lafayette answers the question. Early losses to someone else, probably might not have hurt so much.

[Zeus69]

True... but I thought an early season win against the Catamounts would have gotten us in... :) Should coulda woulda... still think that the Flames were a much better team than the Maine Bears.

[SuperJon]

That article shows how much that Coulson doesn't know. I shouldn't be surprised but yet I still am.

Here comes the negative rep point.

[OL FU]

I think the losses to PC & Lafayette answers the question. Early losses to someone else, probably might not have hurt so much.

In defense of Patton, he coaches in the BSouth, what else is he going to say.

And that doesn't mean he is wrong ( although I think he is) but the alternative is to say the "Yeah a 9-2 Bsouth team shouldn't get in"xconfusedx

[SuperJon]

We were lied to by our commissioner for the entire year. From everything he said, we should've been in. It was completely political why we didn't get in. Anyone that knows the situation other than message boards knows that. You can learn a lot from reading on message boards, but there are just certain things that you can't learn unless you are a little closer to the situation.

[appfan2008]

watch out socon and caa... the big south is poised to have a big year... maybe a playoff berth?

[OL FU]

We were lied to by our commissioner for the entire year. From everything he said, we should've been in. It was completely political why we didn't get in. Anyone that knows the situation other than message boards knows that. You can learn a lot from reading on message boards, but there are just certain things that you can't learn unless you are a little closer to the situation.

I am not sure what you are talking about? My preference would have been Liberty in over Maine, I just don't see a real good reason for 5 teams from a conference when the fifth one is pretty clear below the other four. But I know that losses to Lafayette and PC hurt badly.

so what are you talking about.

[SuperJon]

Mainly the way the committee works and the way they comprise the playoffs and the way they look at the Big South in terms of playoffs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

JMHO, but William and Mary would have and should have been in before Liberty.

FWIW, Maine ended up having to schedule a D-II this year. Why didn't Liberty come up with a way to schedule Maine? It was well known for quite some time that they were searching for a game. And Virginia to Maine isn't that severe a travel option. No better way to show you deserve a playoff bid than playing more "power" conference teams head to head. Especially one you may be in the playoff committee discussion with for a berth. xtwocentsx

The good news for Big South fans is that next year you'll have an AQ.

[OL FU]

Mainly the way the committee works and the way they comprise the playoffs and the way they look at the Big South in terms of playoffs.

I thought maybe it was something specific

[SuperJon]

There are specifics of things that have been said but I'm not posting them on here.

[OL FU]

JMHO, but William and Mary would have and should have been in before Liberty.

FWIW, Maine ended up having to schedule a D-II this year. Why didn't Liberty come up with a way to schedule Maine? It was well known for quite some time that they were searching for a game. And Virginia to Maine isn't that severe a travel option. No better way to show you deserve a playoff bid than playing more "power" conference teams head to head. Especially one you may be in the playoff committee discussion with for a berth. xtwocentsx

The good news for Big South fans is that next year you'll have an AQ.

I don't disagree with you it's just that at some point unless there is really good evidence that a fifth team in the case of the CAA and a fourth team in case of most other conferences you just say enough is enough. I understand the purpose is to take the best eight teams but I also understand that many times once you get down to choice 7 and 8, the decision is fairly subjective. I realize the top teams can be very close in a conference, but I don't think to many people thought Maine or W&M were close to the top of the CAA. Diversity is goodxsmiley_wix

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I am not sure what you are talking about? My preference would have been Liberty in over Maine, I just don't see a real good reason for 5 teams from a conference when the fifth one is pretty clear below the other four. But I know that losses to Lafayette and PC hurt badly.

so what are you talking about.

The real good reason is that the NCAA works with a guideline of taking the best available for the at large teams. While you're obviously allowed to have your preference and opinion, there is no threshold for the number of teams from a conference. (Nor is there in the basketball tournament either.) That's why William & Mary was the next team in.

All the playoff guidelines should be well known by the ADs. It baffles me why any school seeking the playoffs schedules a sub FCS school. xconfusedx xconfusedx And why any school outside the AQ leagues doesn't load up on OOC games with power conference teams. Albany figured it out. The committee would be forced to recognize the performance of the team. Sounds like the best way to change the way the committee works that SuperJon alludes to.

Good discussion, wish I didn't have to leave for work............. xoopsx xoopsx

[SuperJon]

We ran into an interesting situation when Coach Rocco joined us. We had the reputation of being terrible (and rightly so) which made the big boys not want to schedule us because a win means nothing and a loss is embarrassing. At the same time, the lower schools saw our transfers and didn't wanna get beat up for nothing. All the while, you take our founder and what our school stands for, and there are schools out there that refuse to play us.

We had every intention to play a full Division I schedule this year. When Iona dropped their program, we were forced to find a new school. There were some options where travel became an issue. We were in talks to play ODU but ODU's athletic director wouldn't sign it because we're Liberty. Because of all of this, we were forced to add a Division II school.

[aust42]

We ran into an interesting situation when Coach Rocco joined us. We had the reputation of being terrible (and rightly so) which made the big boys not want to schedule us because a win means nothing and a loss is embarrassing. At the same time, the lower schools saw our transfers and didn't wanna get beat up for nothing. All the while, you take our founder and what our school stands for, and there are schools out there that refuse to play us.

We had every intention to play a full Division I schedule this year. When Iona dropped their program, we were forced to find a new school. There were some options where travel became an issue. We were in talks to play ODU but ODU's athletic director wouldn't sign it because we're Liberty. Because of all of this, we were forced to add a Division II school.

Looks like you have an upgraded OOC schedule this year compared to the past couple years. Only one DII team instead of two. 1A West Virginia to open the season out, JMU, Lafayette, NC Central. Keep it respectful against WV, win your conference and all the other OOC games and your in the 2009 playoffs.

[SuperJon]

Going 10-1 is the only possible way to get in the playoffs. We have to beat either JMU or WVU. There's no other way around it.


(Disclaimer: This is not me saying we will beat either of these schools, just that to get in the playoffs we have to.)

[Redwyn]

JMHO, but William and Mary would have and should have been in before Liberty.

FWIW, Maine ended up having to schedule a D-II this year. Why didn't Liberty come up with a way to schedule Maine? It was well known for quite some time that they were searching for a game. And Virginia to Maine isn't that severe a travel option. No better way to show you deserve a playoff bid than playing more "power" conference teams head to head. Especially one you may be in the playoff committee discussion with for a berth. xtwocentsx

The good news for Big South fans is that next year you'll have an AQ.

I completely agree. It always bothered me that schools complained about lack of playoff respect, then make very poor scheduling choices (too many FBS or a non-D1 team). Fact is, we play 11 times. Why allow a team with a "gimme" win in by single virtue or record when another team put itself out there against good competition?

For a conference like the Big South, there is NOTHING more important than OOC scheduling. Unfortunately, much of the Big South continues to make mistakes. Breakdown is as follows:

Charleston Southern - 2 FBS opponents, 1 non-D1, Wofford (SoCon), Savannah State (Ind)
Synopsis: Money was on the mind of Chuck South, not the playoffs. The gimme wins that come from Savannah State and non-D1 teams don't compensate for an incredibly hostile and high risk/low gain OOC schedule. Wofford vs. Chuck South is the only game of interest. My mind can be changed with a win there, though SoCon fans will be quick to call that an unlikelihood.
Verdict: Horse breaks its leg leaving the gate

Coastal Carolina - 2 FBS opponents, Monmouth (NEC), Towson (CAA), NC A&T (MEAC)
Synopsis: Outside of two FBS opponents, I like this schedule for its realism. Coastal Carolina is not a team that can defeat top conference contenders, and this schedule recognizes that. However, Coastal is more than competent to defeat a named NEC program (as a former NEC follower there are only three teams worth naming in the conference - Albany, Central Con, and Monmouth), a low end CAA program, and, if I'm not mistaken, a bottom half MEAC finisher. Wins here won't make a playoff statement alone, but a strong conference showing with wins against all three non FBS OOC would make a very intriguing case for at least a top 25 vote or two.
Verdict: Needs an FBS win, but with that and 2/3 OOC/Conference crown, would get a second look. The fact that so much needs to happen makes this unlikely.

Gardner Webb - 2 FBS, 2 non-D1, WCU (SoCon)
Synopsis: This makes Chuck South's schedule look smart. All I read about from G-Webb fans is how strong this team is, how exciting this year will be. It might be true - this could be the best G-Webb team in recent memory. However, the ADs should be beaten for how poor a schedule they set forth for this program. They didn't schedule bottom tier FBS teams to upset, they scheduled two programs that had winning seasons and are on the upswing. They didn't just schedule one non-D1, but TWO. TWO non-D1s...HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? I feel horrible. G-Webb might have a fantastic season, sweep the conference, make a massive splash, and I am willing to bet my first born child that they will NEVER see the playoffs no matter what the record unless they upset at least one FBS, and even then it's unlikely.
Verdict: They shot the horse while still in the stall, decided the race wasn't necessary

Liberty - 1 FBS, 1 non-D1, LaFayette (Patriot), James Madison (CAA), NC Central (Ind)
Synopsis: This was a decently thought out schedule. You can't face consistent upper tier competition, no matter how good a team you are. It wears you down, and you'll start blowing games you could have won healthy. Here we have a decent Patriot League and top tier CAA program on the tab, but balanced by NC-Central and a non-D1. I'm still against the idea of non-D1 programs - frankly the fact that we allow it is a discredit to FCS football (no, this isn't the same as an FBS scheduling us for many, many reasons). However, overall, a good conference record without any fluke losses should give Liberty at large potential. So far the best schedule set in the conference.
Verdict: LaFayette and NC Central are winnable games, but the key is James Madison. A win or marginal loss would make Liberty's case much stronger. It CAN'T give up a gimme game with the non-D1 on schedule. This is the textbook case of why a non-D1 shoots you in the foot every time, no matter what. We're not going for a Bowl berth where a .500 record can do it. We're going for the playoffs.

Presbyterian - Furman (SoCon), Chattanooga (SoCon), Elon (SoCon), Citadel (SoCon), Old Dominion (CAA transition)
Synopsis: The absolute best OOC schedule in the conference. Very challenging opponents, two lower end competitors from a very reputable conference...Presby may be in transition but its scheduling is SPOT ON. The ADs are confident in their program's development, and understand that scheduling is just as important as recruitment and fundraising. This is a program that will start to skyrocket very soon. And massive credit for no non-D1, esp as it continues to go through transition. Take this schedule as an example of how to do it. Come on, they've been here one year, what's anyone else's excuse?
Verdict: Playoffs with conference crown and a .500+ OOC and win vs. either Furman or Elon. This, from what even Presby admits, is unlikely, but I LOVE the direction this team is going on. WATCH OUT.

Stony Brook - Hofstra (CAA), Colgate (Patriot), Brown (Ivy League), U Mass (CAA), North Dakota (Great West)
Synopsis: I like this schedule as well. No non-D1s, competitors from a variety of conferences with varying pedigree - it's a schedule that can help SBU make a name for itself without decimating the team before conference play. A very strong OOC showing (would need 3-4 wins of 5. Not likely but any given Saturday...) and a conference crown would almost certainly send SBU to at least a ranking. Again, another scheduling pattern that's mid risk/high reward.
Verdict: Playoffs with conference crown and .500+ OCC with win vs. either U Mass or Hofstra (which ever does better during the rest of the year). Not an incredible likelihood, but I can't wait to see how SBU does in its first full scholly year.

VMI - 1 FBS (very winnable), Robert Morris (NEC), James Madison (CAA), Richmond (CAA), Old Dominion (CAA transition)
Synopsis: A well balanced schedule. Army is an FCS program in disguise, so this is about as realistic a chance as any. Chalk in the lower end NEC and Old Dominion opponents and balance with the cream of the CAA crop and VMI has given itself every opportunity to create a playoff bound season.
Verdict: The FBS win would get less than you'd expect, but if VMI can follow it up with a conference champ and a win vs. either Richmond or James Madison....It could get very interesting come playoff prognostications.

I'll say it again, scheduling is not a random figment, it's about creating opportunities for your team. If you don't have high end competition, don't expect high end treatment. I like how the Big South has lots of contenders FOR THE CONFERENCE, but I pity those like G-Webb who could put a fantastic team on the field and be failed by the ADs to produce a playoff quality schedule.

Overall, Playoff likelihood rankings (based on schedule and team prognostications)
1. Liberty
2. Stony Brook
3. VMI
4. Coastal Carolina
5. Presbyterian
6. G-Webb
7. Chuck South

Regardless, it's football, and I love it!

[89Hen]

“There is no way that Liberty should have been left out of the playoffs,” said Gardner-Webb’s Steve Patton
My guess is Steve didn't watch a lot of I-AA football last year. I saw Liberty on TV three times.... they were not snubbed.

[89Hen]

There are specifics of things that have been said but I'm not posting them on here.
Then why bother bringing it up? Jon, you are an absolutely fantastic fan. Every team should have fans like you, but if I had a nickel for every time somebody had inside info that they wouldn't share... not all inside info is accurate. A lot of times that inside info is one sided. xpeacex

[SuperJon]

They don't give out championship rings to people who are just fans.

[89Hen]

They don't give out championship rings to people who are just fans.
Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but I doubt it means you serve on the NCAA Selection Committee. xpeacex

[SuperJon]

It means that I've had access to a lot more things than just a "fan."

[89Hen]

It means that I've had access to a lot more things than just a "fan."
With the NCAA or with Liberty?

[SuperJon]

Other NCAA schools.

[EagleDawg]

RedWyn - You need to cut the Gardner-Webb AD a bit of slack here. Both DII games resulted from a FCS team backing out of a scheduled game late in the scheduling process. G-Dubb was actually looking at possibly 3 FBS games (Ole Miss, NC State & Buffalo) but couldn't work out a schedule adjustment without messing up the Western Carolina game and they didn't want to do to the Cats what was done to them (i.e. back out).

They were in serious talks to play Ole Miss, on Sept. 12th and requested Western Carolina reschedule there game I believe with Wofford which was feasible with the way the open dates worked but it didn't work out. Both Mars Hill and Southern Virginia were plug in games as a deal couldn't be worked with Bethune Cookman to come to GWU. You either only play 4 home games or you get stuck with the schedule. The Big South needs to expand so teams don't have to schedule 5 OOC games. I like a 7 or 8 game conference schedule instead of 6 for sure.

[g-webb1994]

RedWyn - You need to cut the Gardner-Webb AD a bit of slack here. Both DII games resulted from a FCS team backing out of a scheduled game late in the scheduling process. G-Dubb was actually looking at possibly 3 FBS games (Ole Miss, NC State & Buffalo) but couldn't work out a schedule adjustment without messing up the Western Carolina game and they didn't want to do to the Cats what was done to them (i.e. back out).

They were in serious talks to play Ole Miss, on Sept. 12th and requested Western Carolina reschedule there game I believe with Wofford which was feasible with the way the open dates worked but it didn't work out. Both Mars Hill and Southern Virginia were plug in games as a deal couldn't be worked with Bethune Cookman to come to GWU. You either only play 4 home games or you get stuck with the schedule. The Big South needs to expand so teams don't have to schedule 5 OOC games. I like a 7 or 8 game conference schedule instead of 6 for sure.

All true Eagle....but Southern Virginia, an NAIA program? Nut up and schedule Carson-Newman or Valdosta State if we have to schedule D-2 schools.

G-W was also trying to get a game with Clemson at one point as well, for what it is worth. I know we have two trips to Texas next year..Sam Houston (return game) and Lamar, along with WCU coming here, so that is a good start.

[89Hen]

Other NCAA schools.
So not the NCAA.

[SuperJon]

"The NCAA" is a group of AD's from "other NCAA schools."

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

08-07-2009 03:58 PM

Around FCS: Big South looking for playoff respect

Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - Eight months might have passed when the Big South Conference gathered for its annual football media event on the final day of July, but the coaches of this fledgling Football Championship Subdivision league were still bristling about how its 2008 champion, Liberty had been left out of the playoffs.

“There is no way that Liberty should have been left out of the playoffs,” said Gardner-Webb’s Steve Patton, the dean of Big South coaches, who echoed the sentiment of almost. “Everyone said that Elon was in with a win and Liberty goes and dominates them and gets left out. How can you tell me that was fair?”

Read more ... (http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/08/07/around-fcs-big-south-looking-for-playoff?blog=2#more5304)

Are we sure Elon would have gotten in with a win over Liberty? I mean, Wofford went 9-3 in 2002 with wins in Statesboro and Boone and they got left out. It's kind of hard for SoCon teams outside the Big 3 (well maybe Wofford is okay now that they've been in it a few times) to get rewarded for a good season if they do not win the autobid.

[EagleDawg]

GWebb1994 - I'm pretty sure they would have if they could have. It was way late when the other FCS team backed out of their game in Boiling Springs so other than the Ole Miss angle and possibly Bethune-Cookman they did what they could trying to get 5 home games. No one likes the idea of 2 D II's but it is what it is. Playing 3 BCS schools don't make a lot of sense either. If they go to Texas twice and WCU plays in Boiling Springs then along with ODU on the road that makes 4 of the 5 OOC games for 2010 already locked in assuming on one backs out.

[89Hen]

"The NCAA" is a group of AD's from "other NCAA schools."
Every year somebody feels slighted by not making the field. Every year somebody claims politics. And every year somebody here claims to know the "real story".

These same people ignore the invites to Coastal, Hofstra when they were an independant, CalPoly, etc... IOW teams that have NO political standing in I-AA.

The truth is, we're always talking about a #16ish team. Somebody on the fringe. We're not talking about a top 10 team that got screwed. Liberty did not have the resume of a playoff team. Honestly, neither did Maine (or a couple of the autos for that matter). But somebody has to be selected. xpeacex

[SUUTbird]

Liberty did have the resume to be a playoff team, way more so then Maine ever did, (and before anyone freaks out on me im not saying Maine is a bad team because i know their wicked good this year i just think Liberty deserved it more). I will say that was the one thing that ticked me off last year about the playoff choices, reminded me all to much of the BCS when it came to "favoring" a certain conference and saying, they played so and so they possibly cant be good enough to play this so and so, total crap. The facts were this:

-Liberty was 10-2, Maine was 8-4

-Liberty's schedule was not as bad as most people make it out to be as they whipped Elon, dominated their conference (the big south was not that bad) with only an upset loss to Presbyterian and a loss to a good lafayette team.

-Maine went 8-4 losing to 1 FBS and 3 FCS teams (and beat Stony Brook in a hard fought game).

-The CAA at that point had SEVERAL teams in whereas the Big South had none, the biggest fact of them all. Put enough teams into a playoff and that conference will come out with a win (which is exactly what happened). The fact is Liberty should have been in the Playoffs, not Maine and hopefully the Comittee will realize that and not pull the "favor the CAA" card again.

[89Hen]

-The CAA at that point had SEVERAL teams in whereas the Big South had none, the biggest fact of them all. Put enough teams into a playoff and that conference will come out with a win (which is exactly what happened). The fact is Liberty should have been in the Playoffs, not Maine and hopefully the Comittee will realize that and not pull the "favor the CAA" card again.
That is a fact that the CAA had several teams and the Big South had none, but that means absolutely NOTHING. The NEC didn't have any teams in. The Pioneer didn't have any teams in.

The "favor the CAA card" is a complete joke. xnonox

[SUUTbird]

Is it? then how did 5 teams get in when UAlbany and Liberty could have easily gotten in? Both did, but since it was the Big South conference they were talking about i only mentioned Liberty. Something funny going on in the committees choices xrolleyesx

[Uncle Buck]

Is it? then how did 5 teams get in when UAlbany and Liberty could have easily gotten in? Both did, but since it was the Big South conference they were talking about i only mentioned Liberty. Something funny going on in the committees choices xrolleyesx

I agree that Liberty certainly had a case, but i think Maine and W&M also had a beef to be included. When you get down to the last team in, there are always bubble teams that get left out. I don't think that it's necessarily a case of CAA bias. What i think didn't help Liberty, the two division II wins to start the season and a bad late season loss to Presbyterian.

As for Albany, they really didn't have much of a consideration IMO. They lost 3 of four out of conference games and if not for an inept Hofstra kicking game, should have lost at Hofstra as well. That 1-3 record out of conference combined with other wins in a weak conference hurt them. If Albany manages to go 3-1 OOC or maybe even 2-2 with a win over UNH, then i think they have more of a legitimate shot. xtwocentsx

[OL FU]

I agree that Liberty certainly had a case, but i think Maine and W&M also had a beef to be included. When you get down to the last team in, there are always bubble teams that get left out. I don't think that it's necessarily a case of CAA bias. What i think didn't help Liberty, the two division II wins to start the season and a bad late season loss to Presbyterian.

As for Albany, they really didn't have much of a consideration IMO. They lost 3 of four out of conference games and if not for an inept Hofstra kicking game, should have lost at Hofstra as well. That 1-3 record out of conference combined with other wins in a weak conference hurt them. If Albany manages to go 3-1 OOC or maybe even 2-2 with a win over UNH, then i think they have more of a legitimate shot. xtwocentsx

And getting beat badly by Delaware didn't help

[SuperJon]

Every year somebody feels slighted by not making the field. Every year somebody claims politics. And every year somebody here claims to know the "real story".

These same people ignore the invites to Coastal, Hofstra when they were an independant, CalPoly, etc... IOW teams that have NO political standing in I-AA.

The truth is, we're always talking about a #16ish team. Somebody on the fringe. We're not talking about a top 10 team that got screwed. Liberty did not have the resume of a playoff team. Honestly, neither did Maine (or a couple of the autos for that matter). But somebody has to be selected. xpeacex

Ha, you played the Coastal card. That was completely expected and typical. Ask around. Ask people that know the real situation. They'll tell you that Coastal got in because the committee thought that Furman deserved to be in the playoffs but could only justify putting Furman in if they put Coastal in. That's the only way a Big South team gets in the playoffs. That's why the only way for Liberty to get in this year is to beat JMU and hope that JMU is a playoff caliber team.

[89Hen]

Is it? then how did 5 teams get in when UAlbany and Liberty could have easily gotten in? Both did, but since it was the Big South conference they were talking about i only mentioned Liberty. Something funny going on in the committees choices xrolleyesx
Only seems funny to people either from the #17 or 18 team or from fans of teams that have never gotten in and who's playoff knowledge is very limited. The conspiracy theorists will always be out there until the field becomes a 16 team, all conference/all automatic tournament. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

Ha, you played the Coastal card. That was completely expected and typical. Ask around. Ask people that know the real situation. They'll tell you that Coastal got in because the committee thought that Furman deserved to be in the playoffs but could only justify putting Furman in if they put Coastal in. That's the only way a Big South team gets in the playoffs. That's why the only way for Liberty to get in this year is to beat JMU and hope that JMU is a playoff caliber team.
xlolx Wow, watch out for the black helicopters circling around your house.

[SuperJon]

Dude you can believe it or not. That's the way it works.

[Uncle Buck]

Only seems funny to people either from the #17 or 18 team or from fans of teams that have never gotten in and who's playoff knowledge is very limited. The conspiracy theorists will always be out there until the field becomes a 16 team, all conference/all automatic tournament. xcoffeex

HU was selected 4 times between the '95 and the '00 seasons as an independent. The two times they didn't make it, '96 we stunk and then in '98 we were 8-3 with a good resume, but in the end left out. It happens.

[danefan]

The fact is Liberty has no one to blame but themselves. They lost to a bad team. Big South and NEC teams knew the deal going in last year. You play in lower level conference without an AQ. You have to play a tough OOC schedule, win some games and more importantly - you cannot have any "bad" loses.

Liberty's loss to Presby kept them out.
Albany loss to Delaware kept them out (probably would have needed more than a win over Delaware, but that loss closed the door).

W&M and Maine were the only teams left standing. The only teams with a playoff resume worthy of inclusion, IMO. And it has everything to do with the conference these teams are affiliated with. Not because they get that many teams in, but because their schedules are filled with tough games, which just happen to be league games.

[GridFan]

Re: Gardner-Webb schedule.

G-W was dumped on by Tennessee Tech on a return game, so they had to schedule whoever they could get to fill that date quickly. It happened that the only team they could find was Southern Virginia, and the TTU original date is now an open date.

I was told by an athletic department employee just days ago that 2010 is set, or nearly set. Non-Conference road dates at Sam Houston State, Akron and Old Dominion and home games with Western Carolina and a D2. There is not a game with Lamar, which I think I saw on here earlier.

One of the biggest challenges with the BSC is scheduling five non-league games. A ton of dates to fill for most, and nearly impossible to fill every season without a sprinkling of non-DIs, particularly in the event that a contractual opponent bails last minute. Not easy. Most FCS teams, especially now, have budgets that must be met, which requires most to play one (or two) guarantee games with FBS foes.

[89Hen]

Dude you can believe it or not. That's the way it works.
I'll choose not and that's only the way you say it works. You're starting to sound like DetroitFlyer. xsmhx

[89Hen]

Every year somebody feels slighted by not making the field. Every year somebody claims politics. And every year somebody here claims to know the "real story".

These same people ignore the invites to Coastal, Hofstra when they were an independant, CalPoly, etc... IOW teams that have NO political standing in I-AA.

The truth is, we're always talking about a #16ish team. Somebody on the fringe. We're not talking about a top 10 team that got screwed. Liberty did not have the resume of a playoff team. Honestly, neither did Maine (or a couple of the autos for that matter). But somebody has to be selected. xpeacex


HU was selected 4 times between the '95 and the '00 seasons as an independent. The two times they didn't make it, '96 we stunk and then in '98 we were 8-3 with a good resume, but in the end left out. It happens.
xnodx I got you in there. It's amazing how people want to make this out to be a have and have-not thing or a political game. Amazing that Hofstra, with no pull in I-AA made the field several times as an Indy.

[PantherRob82]

Is it? then how did 5 teams get in when UAlbany and Liberty could have easily gotten in? Both did, but since it was the Big South conference they were talking about i only mentioned Liberty. Something funny going on in the committees choices xrolleyesx

Because the CAA is a better conference with better teams. xnonox

Maine or W&M would smoke Liberty, hands down.


Watch FCS football week in and week out for 20 years and you'll get it.

I watched Liberty last year and they were not a playoff team. With the internet, regional fox sports, and espn360, you can watch a LOT of FCS teams from all different regions without much effort.

[IaaScribe]

Because the CAA is a better conference with better teams. xnonox

Maine or W&M would smoke Liberty, hands down.


Watch FCS football week in and week out for 20 years and you'll get it.

I watched Liberty last year and they were not a playoff team. With the internet, regional fox sports, and espn360, you can watch a LOT of FCS teams from all different regions without much effort.

I'm not going to disagree with Liberty's playoff resume being flawed last year. You can't lose to what essentially is still a DII program (scholarships wise) and claim you're playoff worthy. That was a punishing, devastating loss, as it should have been. No other team in the playoff discussion had such an ugly blemish on its resume.

I will however disagree with your assertion that W&M would "smoke" Liberty, seeing as the last two meetings (both won by W&M) were a one-point game in Lynchburg and a double-overtime game in Williamsburg.

[SuperJon]

Yeah, Elon was supposed to smoke us too.

[89Hen]

I'm not going to disagree with Liberty's playoff resume being flawed last year. You can't lose to what essentially is still a DII program (scholarships wise) and claim you're playoff worthy. That was a punishing, devastating loss, as it should have been. No other team in the playoff discussion had such an ugly blemish on its resume.

I will however disagree with your assertion that W&M would "smoke" Liberty
Agreed. The difference between Maine, W&M and Liberty was miniscule. It's just too bad that the NCAA conspired to keep Liberty out. xsmiley_wix

[IaaScribe]

I ain't touchin' that one, Hen.

[89Hen]

I ain't touchin' that one, Hen.
But that's what studentjon said.

[PantherRob82]

I will however disagree with your assertion that W&M would "smoke" Liberty, seeing as the last two meetings (both won by W&M) were a one-point game in Lynchburg and a double-overtime game in Williamsburg.

Did you watch both teams last year?

[PantherRob82]

Yeah, Elon was supposed to smoke us too.

Elon wasn't a playoff team. I could've told you that before you played them. It's nothing personal towards Liberty. I watched them play and I'm offering my honest opinion.

[IaaScribe]

Did you watch both teams last year?


Yes, I did. I'm not sure where you're making out this 7-4 W&M team to be such a juggernaut. It think a potential LU-W&M game last year probably would have been close and would have gone either way, depending on where it was played.

[PantherRob82]

Yes, I did. I'm not sure where you're making out this 7-4 W&M team to be such a juggernaut. It think a potential LU-W&M game last year probably would have been close and would have gone either way, depending on where it was played.

I'm not saying W&M was a juggernaut, but the team that I saw Liberty put on the field for the Lafeyette and Presbyterian games was unimpressive. I think either CAA team wins by 2 possesions or more.

[IaaScribe]

Well, they mailed in the Presbyterian game. The players admitted as much afterward. They thought they could could just go down and win, didn't play at maximum effort and got caught. Plus, PC played as well as they did all year that afternoon.

[Uncle Buck]

xnodx I got you in there. It's amazing how people want to make this out to be a have and have-not thing or a political game. Amazing that Hofstra, with no pull in I-AA made the field several times as an Indy.

I know xthumbsupx It has been so long since we've been back that it felt good to talk about it xnodx

But more to your point, back in the Indy days, we would go anywhere to play. I think one season, we had games at Montana, at Cal Poly, at Portland State. It's tough for Liberty, but i think that bad loss and the two DII wins hurt them. You can't afford to play down if you're in a non-AQ conference and looking for a bid.