Good programs fire decent coaches

[ButlerGSU]

From the TSCsports.com board:

"To those in this forum and other forums (like AGS), as well as so called experts like Dave Coulson, I give you this.

This is an article on SI.com from December 2000 when Jim Donnan was fired as UGA head coach. Please note the surprisingly familiar issues and quotes between the firing of Donnan and Sewak. Record in big games, discipline problems behind the scenes, direction of the program.

The reality is that college football is highly competitive and transcends the games on Saturday. The top programs have top expectations which, right or wrong, calls for difficult decisions. GSU is not at all alone in the wrath of criticism of key decisions. However, I don’t think anyone is lamenting UGA’s decision to hire Mark Richt anymore.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/2000/12/04/georgia_donnan/ "

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Please note the surprisingly familiar issues and quotes between the firing of Donnan and Sewak. Record in big games, discipline problems behind the scenes, direction of the program.

I read the whole article and completely fail to see a connection.

"Record in big games"

Sewak:
2-2 vs. Furman
3-1 vs. App St.

17-7 conference record
3 appearances in I-AA playoffs

If you have some "problems behind the scenes" that you're privy to, please share them, since I've seen no evidence of them.

"Direction of the program" included 2 SoCon titles and 3 playoff appearances - a record which most I-AA patricipants would give their right kidney for.

[ButlerGSU]

Exactly, "most" programs but not Georgia Southern.

[Cap'n Cat]

Exactly, "most" programs but not Georgia Southern.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Maybe football has passed Georgia Southern by?

Anyone ever considered that? Nothing lasts forever. Ask Youngstown.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[AUtigersGSUeagles]

Ask GSU in the mid '90s under Tim Stowers. Then Paul Johnson came in and put GSU back where we expect to be. Don't write GSU's obituary just yet. I still haven't heard anything on a new coach yet, so I don't know what direction the program is wanting to take. It's a long way to next football season when we see what the new coach is going to do.

[FU97]

Ask GSU in the mid '90s under Tim Stowers. Then Paul Johnson came in and put GSU back where we expect to be. Don't write GSU's obituary just yet. I still haven't heard anything on a new coach yet, so I don't know what direction the program is wanting to take. It's a long way to next football season when we see what the new coach is going to do.

Personally I think they should take their sweet time to hire a coach and staff. No need to get all those recruits in there this year.

[gsuwinsudont]

"Record in big games"

Sewak:
2-2 vs. Furman
3-1 vs. App St.

17-7 conference record
3 appearances in I-AA playoffs


Actually its 2-2 vs ASU and 3-1 against FU. In only one of those losses did the GSU lead not vanish late in second half(2005 ASU).

Why stop there?
Heres my "Bigger" games...
2-3 in playoffs
3 game playoff losing streak
Led in the 4th quarter of all 3 losses.

1-3 vs Wofford.

In four years 5 of the 17 total ALL time losses at 21 year old Paulson. It goes on.

Yup no doubt, we shoulda kept him.

By the way will you guys stop quoting his conference record. Half of you during the season like to post how top heavy the SoCon is so why is his league record so impressive all the sudden?

[KJ Eagle]

Speaking of the three playoff losses: in all three of the losses we had late 4th quarter leads and lost in dramatic fashion. Two of the three (UNH and TxST) were a little more than dramatic losses, the second halves of both games were down right disgusting :splat:

[JohnStOnge]

What would be interesting would be for someone to go back and look at how it's been overall for programs that fired winning coaches in order to try to get a better one. I know LSU went through a long, long drought after firing Charlie McClendon because he couldn't beat Alabama.

Anyway, it'd be interesting to see whether it's worked out for the better or the worse the majority of the times.

[JohnStOnge]

I will say that I don't have a good feeling about this for Georgia Southern in this case. I think the smart thing to do would've been to try to do something about the defense but otherwise stick with what was in place.

If I had to predict I'd predict Georgia Southern's about to experience some traumatic times when they were poised to be very good next year.

We'll see.

[Kill'em]

I have that same fear. However I'm optimistic that we will get a coach that can get us over that hump.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Personally I think they should take their sweet time to hire a coach and staff. No need to get all those recruits in there this year.

"TAKE DERE SWEET TIME"????..............IT'S RECRUITIN' SEASON DERE SPANKY........."NO NEED TA GET DOSE RECRUITS IN DERE DIS SEASON"????....DEY JES' CANNED UH COACH...FO' VARIOUS REASONS...ONE O' WHICH IS TAKIN' DUH FIRST ROUND PLUNGE!........GET 'EM IN DERE....AN' GET 'EM ACCLIMATED..TA DAT....WEST COAST OFFENSE...:eek:...DUH..NO HUDDLE....SPREAD......:eek:......DUH POWER I......:eek:.....DUH RUN 'N GUN.....:eek:....OR....GOD...FO' BID.........DUH TRIPLE O!......:eek:.......BRAWK!

[Baldy]

Personally I think they should take their sweet time to hire a coach and staff. No need to get all those recruits in there this year.

I don't think we'll have any problem recruiting this or any year from here on out. :smiley_wi :coach: :coach: ;)

[AppGuy04]

I don't think we'll have any problem recruiting this or any year from here on out. :smiley_wi :coach: :coach: ;)

right, cause you can't fire players :rolleyes:

[Baldy]

right, cause you can't fire players :rolleyes:

xlolx

Prepare to be shocked. :nod: ;)

[pete4256]

xlolx

Prepare to be shocked. :nod: ;)

Hey Baldy, check your pm.

[igo4uni]

Sometimes new blood is good for a program...............sometimes it's not.

Frank Solich was fired at Nebraska for taking them to a bowl game. It's hard to fault a head coach for how a bunch of relatively young kids, play. But that's the job they signed up for, and that's the pressure that they have to live with.

[GSUBass]

xlolx

Prepare to be shocked. :nod: ;)

wooh boy, i'm about shocked.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

what do yall know? lemme know! lemme know!! :hyped: :hyped:

[GSUBass]

rumor is an announcement at 4pm on friday. If that passes and we have no word, then it doesn't matter what we know.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

where will the announcement be made? im afraid i wont be in statesboro at the point..

[Baldy]

what do yall know? lemme know! lemme know!! :hyped: :hyped:

News is already starting to leak out so I'm sure it will blow up tomorrow, and I mean blow up. :D
This hire will set a new standard for I-AA coaches. :nod:

[Seven Would Be Nice]

oh man, i feel like a little kid at christmas :hyped: :xmas: :xmas: :xmas: :hyped:

[*****]

... This hire will set a new standard for I-AA coaches.What, is the new coach going to make more money than Pete Richardson?

[Baldy]

What, is the new coach going to make more money than Pete Richardson?

Yes, Coach Richardson's days at the top of the I-AA pay scale will be over, but I was talking more about quality, pedigree, and prestiege. This guy could be a finalist for ANY I-A coaching job in the country.

[AUtigersGSUeagles]

Hey, any GSU fans care to let me in on this huge announcement? I'm dying to know what it is now that y'all have started to hype it so much. This from someone who was born with the program and has been there for almost all of the NC games (everyone but the first two wins and first loss).

[*****]

Yes, Coach Richardson's days at the top of the I-AA pay scale will be over, but I was talking more about quality, pedigree, and prestiege. This guy could be a finalist for ANY I-A coaching job in the country.GaSU is going to pay more than $200K and get a head coach that "could be a finalist for ANY I-A coaching job in the country" then? :rolleyes: Hyperbole perhaps? I don't want to be the wet blanket or anything but you are on the record with that kind of talk.

[Baldy]

GaSU is going to pay more than $200K and get a head coach that "could be a finalist for ANY I-A coaching job in the country" then? :rolleyes: Hyperbole perhaps? I don't want to be the wet blanket or anything but you are on the record with that kind of talk.

Fine by me, put it on the record in BOLD type if you want.
Roll your eyes if you wanna, ralph. Coach will be well compensated. No punches were pulled and no wallet was left untouched. Several well heeled boosters stepped up to the plate and did what was needed when asked (just like Sam said). Coulson's gonna have a hissy fit. xlolx :D ;)

[AUtigersGSUeagles]

Baldy, y'all are killing me with this. I've been searching every messageboard I know to find out about what you're talking about and I can't find squat.

[*****]

Fine by me, put it on the record in BOLD type if you want.
Roll your eyes if you wanna, ralph. Coach will be well compensated...I just find it hard to believe that GaSU will nearly triple their head coach salary. As for your hyperbole, we'll see won't we?

[JohnStOnge]

Sometimes new blood is good for a program...............sometimes it's not.

Frank Solich was fired at Nebraska for taking them to a bowl game. It's hard to fault a head coach for how a bunch of relatively young kids, play. But that's the job they signed up for, and that's the pressure that they have to live with.

Nebraska may turn out to be an illustration of the possible negative consequences. Right now it's looking like the school made a big mistake in turning away from what made it successful.

[pete4256]

Nebraska may turn out to be an illustration of the possible negative consequences. Right now it's looking like the school made a big mistake in turning away from what made it successful.


If the rumors are true (and they will be strictly rumors until Friday at 4:00 pm, according to rumor), then the discussion on this matter will be closed for a while.

[Tribe4SF]

GSU fans operating on rumor and hyperbole? :eek:

Well taught by their leader, Mr. Baker! :argue:

"Deep pockets"....."behind the scene"...."news leaking out"...."blow-up tomorrow"....What could it be!!!! Will 4:00 Friday never get here??? xcoffeex

[soweagle]

OK, I'll spill the beans. GSU will be hiring Bobby Lamb as OC, Jerry Moore as DC and Mike Ayers for special teams. Sam Baker will be listed as HC. Our plan is to destroy all competition in the SoCon. :D

[pete4256]

OK, I'll spill the beans. GSU will be hiring Bobby Lamb as OC, Jerry Moore as DC and Mike Ayers for special teams. Sam Baker will be listed as HC. Our plan is to destroy all competition in the SoCon. :D

Couldn't you have let them squirm a little bit before you delivered the knockout punch? :D

[Baldy]

GSU fans operating on rumor and hyperbole? :eek:

Well taught by their leader, Mr. Baker! :argue:


Such a hater. :(

[AppGuy04]

Sometimes new blood is good for a program...............sometimes it's not.

Frank Solich was fired at Nebraska for taking them to a bowl game. It's hard to fault a head coach for how a bunch of relatively young kids, play. But that's the job they signed up for, and that's the pressure that they have to live with.

and now they suck

[FU97]

fWIW, the current rumors are apparently Brian van Gorder, former UGG DC and current Jax Jaguars LB coach.

[blueballs]

You mean this guy???

In 2003, he was named the winner of the Frank Broyles Assistant Coach of the Year Award as the nation’s top assistant coach after being a finalist for the honor in 2002.

In 2002 he was also named the seventh recipient of the Valvoline Southern Sports Tonight Assistant Coach of the Year award. Under VanGorder six defensive players have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft including DT Johnathan Sullivan, S Thomas Davis and DE David Pollack in the first round, and LBs Boss Bailey and Odell Thurman and S Sean Jones in the second round.

VanGorder, who is a former head coach at Wayne State University, also served as defensive coordinator at Central Michigan in 1998-99. His Western Illinois defense in 2000 was ranked 12th nationally in Division I-AA in both passing defense and total defense, and allowed only 17.6 points per game in compiling a 9-2 record. He also coached LB Edgerton Hartwell, 2000's Buck Buchanon Award winner as the best defensive player in Division I-AA.

How on earth could an institution who is headed by a "cowardly administration" and whose AD is "swine" and an "axeman" ever manage to recruit and hire such a star in his profession?

It just can't possibly be true, can it??? :confused:

[GSUBass]

fWIW, the current rumors are apparently Brian van Gorder, former UGG DC and current Jax Jaguars LB coach.


SHHHhhh...we're trying to keep that on the down low until we know for sure. :smiley_wi

[FU97]

You mean this guy???

In 2003, he was named the winner of the Frank Broyles Assistant Coach of the Year Award as the nation’s top assistant coach after being a finalist for the honor in 2002.

In 2002 he was also named the seventh recipient of the Valvoline Southern Sports Tonight Assistant Coach of the Year award. Under VanGorder six defensive players have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NFL draft including DT Johnathan Sullivan, S Thomas Davis and DE David Pollack in the first round, and LBs Boss Bailey and Odell Thurman and S Sean Jones in the second round.

VanGorder, who is a former head coach at Wayne State University, also served as defensive coordinator at Central Michigan in 1998-99. His Western Illinois defense in 2000 was ranked 12th nationally in Division I-AA in both passing defense and total defense, and allowed only 17.6 points per game in compiling a 9-2 record. He also coached LB Edgerton Hartwell, 2000's Buck Buchanon Award winner as the best defensive player in Division I-AA.

How on earth could an institution who is headed by a "cowardly administration" and whose AD is "swine" and an "axeman" ever manage to recruit and hire such a star in his profession?

It just can't possibly be true, can it??? :confused:

Would be an interesting hire. UGA's defense didn't collapse after he left like some thought/predicted it would. Martinez (one of his assistants at UGA) is also a great coach. Van Gorder is definitely a high energy guy who is a good motivator. Not sure what kind of head coach he would be however.

[FU97]

SHHHhhh...we're trying to keep that on the down low until we know for sure. :smiley_wi

Heck with all the names that have been rumored to be about to be hired at GSU in the last week, I would personally take any name with a grain of salt. Everyone seems to be "in the know" about the new coach yet all those "in the know" seem to say someone different.

[soweagle]

My thoughts exactly FU97. This would be a good catch but I have doubts. Boy I hope I'm wrong.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

VanGorder, who is a former head coach at Wayne State University, also served as defensive coordinator at Central Michigan in 1998-99. His Western Illinois defense in 2000 was ranked 12th nationally in Division I-AA in both passing defense and total defense, and allowed only 17.6 points per game in compiling a 9-2 record. He also coached LB Edgerton Hartwell, 2000's Buck Buchanon Award winner as the best defensive player in Division I-AA.

Oh, so that's the defense Lehigh waxed in the playoffs that year!!! Higgins will be high-fiving the rest of the Citadel's coaching staff if the rumors are true!

:D

[FU97]

My thoughts exactly FU97. This would be a good catch but I have doubts. Boy I hope I'm wrong.

I think he would be a good coach, but there are always some doubts with a guy who hasn't had significant head coaching experience before (and no, Wayne State isn't significant experience). As a UGA fan I liked him when at UGA.

There is always some worry with guys as animated as him that he's more flash than substance. Some UGA fans insist that Martinez (current DC) was always the "brains" behind the defense and that van Gorder was the motivator/front man. I don't really agree with that but Martinez did have a very good defnese this year after losing a lot of talent to the NFL (3 top 40 picks).

[Baldy]

I think he would be a good coach, but there are always some doubts with a guy who hasn't had significant head coaching experience before (and no, Wayne State isn't significant experience). As a UGA fan I liked him when at UGA.

There is always some worry with guys as animated as him that he's more flash than substance. Some UGA fans insist that Martinez (current DC) was always the "brains" behind the defense and that van Gorder was the motivator/front man. I don't really agree with that but Martinez did have a very good defnese this year after losing a lot of talent to the NFL (3 top 40 picks).

GSU has never hired a coach with head coaching experience before, so that's nothing new.

Those are normal statements from the typical arrogant UGAy fans trying to justify VanGorder's leaving to a 'lowly' position as a NFL assistant coach.

[FU97]

GSU has never hired a coach with head coaching experience before, so that's nothing new.

Those are normal statements from the typical arrogant UGAy fans trying to justify VanGorder's leaving to a 'lowly' position as a NFL assistant coach.

I actually thought he took a step up in going to the NFL and would see this move as a step down. Perhaps he realized after 1 year away that he likes the college game more. If so, its a good move for him. That said, Martinez's performance as DC this year added some credence to their thoughts. I don't personally really agree with the Martinez was the "brains" and van Gorder the "heart" breakdown. I think they are both good coaches.

BTW, I love the "UGAy" reference. Just shows how jealous you are of that program.

[AUtigersGSUeagles]

Well, from past experiences the last time we hired a defensive coordinator from UGA to be our head coach, things turned out just fine. Time will tell how he'll work out if all this is true (and coming from people like Baldy and others, I'm inclined to believe them). I just wonder who his offensive coordinator will be and if he'll stick to the triple option. Any opinions on whether or not they hired a defensive coach because they couldn't find an offensive coach who wanted to/could run the option? I know Baker said the offense was up to whoever they hired, but does anyone doubt there's a desire to see that tradition continue at GSU? It's an interesting choice, I'll give them that much. I expected them to go after someone on Paul Johnson's staff, though that may be where van Gorder turns for his OC.

[Baldy]

BTW, I love the "UGAy" reference. Just shows how jealous you are of that program.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sorry Sport,
I was hatin' on UGA long before they started snappin' the pigskin in Statesboro. Jealous of what? Their "wait till next year" slogan? xlolx

[eaglesrthe1]

Gotta say that I'm a huge skeptic of scuttlebutt, but there are some interesting folk (in the know folk) doing a lot of talking on the TSC. I'm starting to be a believer. This is huge.



http://www.southern-connection.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18208

[bandl]

Gotta say that I'm a huge skeptic of scuttlebutt, but there are some interesting folk (in the know folk) doing a lot of talking on the TSC. I'm starting to be a believer. This is huge.



http://www.southern-connection.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18208

I don't want to register for another website....can you copy/paste the discussion?

[I-AA Fan]

Okay, this is not that intersting of a story anymore, there were several coaches let go. A quick announcement would not surprise me at all ...they had to have someone in mind, or they would not have fired him. If they fired him without someone aready chosen, then Sewak did something in particular (more than W's and L's). Stop looking at this as a chance to pat yourself on the back ...many programs have standards just as high (if not higher) as GSU. If he did not do anything in particular ...I suspect that someone is returning to the program ... or the triple is gone on O".

[eaglesrthe1]

I don't want to register for another website....can you copy/paste the discussion?

Nah, it's about five pages long. I didn't realize that you had to register to read.

[eaglesrthe1]

Stop looking at this as a chance to pat yourself on the back ...many programs have standards just as high (if not higher) as GSU. If he did not do anything in particular ...I suspect that someone is returning to the program ... or the triple is gone on O".

This guy would have to be considered to be in the running for just about any IA job in the country. Being a defensive minded coach, it wouldn't mean that the 3O would have to go out the window, he would just have to get an option minded OC. Erk didn't run the 3O at GSU, Paul Johnson did.


As much as you might like to downplay it, it's large.

I just hope it's true. :hyped: :hyped:

[griz8791]

Yes, Coach Richardson's days at the top of the I-AA pay scale will be over, but I was talking more about quality, pedigree, and prestiege. This guy could be a finalist for ANY I-A coaching job in the country.

It's Hauck, isn't it? And we thought he was headed to San Diego State . . .

(Just a little humor to relieve the tension while we wait. :D)

[FU97]

This guy would have to be considered to be in the running for just about any IA job in the country. Being a defensive minded coach, it wouldn't mean that the 3O would have to go out the window, he would just have to get an option minded OC. Erk didn't run the 3O at GSU, Paul Johnson did.


As much as you might like to downplay it, it's large.

I just hope it's true. :hyped: :hyped:

No offense, but if he were in the running for "just about any 1A job in the country" he wouldn't have got to the NFL after last year. He would have gone to one of the open 1A jobs, but you hardly heard his name mentioned. Why that is, I don't know.

[pete4256]

No offense, but if he were in the running for "just about any 1A job in the country" he wouldn't have got to the NFL after last year. He would have gone to one of the open 1A jobs, but you hardly heard his name mentioned. Why that is, I don't know.

The only problem with his resume that I see is the fact that he can't stay in one place for more than 3 years. And his moving about is completely random. It's one thing to follow coaching connections around, but I'm not really sure of the rhyme and reason for some moves, such as the one to Jacksonville.

Even though he's a rental, I'm willing to take the risk that he leaves the program stronger than he found it.

Please let it be true! :hyped:

[FU97]

The only problem with his resume that I see is the fact that he can't stay in one place for more than 3 years. And his moving about is completely random. It's one thing to follow coaching connections around, but I'm not really sure of the rhyme and reason for some moves, such as the one to Jacksonville.

Even though he's a rental, I'm willing to take the risk that he leaves the program stronger than he found it.

Please let it be true! :hyped:

He does have a history of moving around. As a UGA fan I hated to see him leave as I do think he's a good coach. They were able to hire/promote a guy whom I think has turned out to be just as good (though a drastically different style). While I saw the move to JAX as a step up, I wasn't sure where he was trying to go with that. I thought after a year or two more he would have a shot at a lower level 1A job (possibly a MAC school or lower tier big conference job such as Perhaps he was hoping for a job as a DC in the NFL after a year or two (still possible). While I don't know much about the JAX LBs, their defense has been one of the better NFL defenses this season. How much input he had in that I don't know (they do have a great DL).

Will be interesting to see if this is true and how his staff shakes out. I don't know that I buy the "high dollar" staff. I wouldn't be shocked to see a few of the GSU coaches that were just let go retained as well as perhaps bringing in a former player or two. Maybe even a coach from Navy, though one would question whether or not the Navy OC would consider moving to GSU OC as a "step up". I would guess they would need to look at something like the Navy RB coach to move to GSU OC for it to really be a "step up".

[soweagle]

FU97,
The style of defense ran by VG and Martinez is different but it could be MArtinez is running the type of defense that fits the talent. I think that was one of the problems with the GSU defense this year. 2004 version ran an agressive defense that GSU fans had not been used to seeing. It worked pretty darn good for most of the season b/c we had the athletes to run it, this year the DC tried to run the same type but with not the same talent. This maybe what Martinez is doing at UGA.

As far as GSU hiring the OC from Navy. I would love nothing more but I don't think we can afford the salary. Paul Johnson is the OC for Navy. Now as you mentioned there are some assistants at Navy that might end up in Statesboro, again. I guess we will have to wait and see. I'm still not convinced this is a done deal. Too many rumors have floated around this past week for me to believe anything until it is official.

[FU97]

FU97,
The style of defense ran by VG and Martinez is different but it could be MArtinez is running the type of defense that fits the talent. I think that was one of the problems with the GSU defense this year. 2004 version ran an agressive defense that GSU fans had not been used to seeing. It worked pretty darn good for most of the season b/c we had the athletes to run it, this year the DC tried to run the same type but with not the same talent. This maybe what Martinez is doing at UGA.

As far as GSU hiring the OC from Navy. I would love nothing more but I don't think we can afford the salary. Paul Johnson is the OC for Navy. Now as you mentioned there are some assistants at Navy that might end up in Statesboro, again. I guess we will have to wait and see. I'm still not convinced this is a done deal. Too many rumors have floated around this past week for me to believe anything until it is official.

While the style is different, the results are very similar. Van Gorder was more of an attacking guy while Martinez is more of a "wait for the right spot to attack" type of guy. I think that follows the personality of the two coaches. Of course the talent (Pollack, Davis, Thurman) that Van Gorder had his last 2 years at UGA helped him attack whenever he wanted. Both good DCs in their own right.

Thanks for the Navy coaching tip. I agree, you'd have a hard time paying more than most 1A programs, even Navy for a coach. Even if PJ wasn't the OC, you'd have a hard time matching their pay scale. Perhaps someone that's looking for a step up in title would be willing to go to GSU from Navy. I have always felt that strong coordinator's can have just as much impact as the HC. Look at the Patriots (prior to this year), the impact of Borges at Auburn, or the impact of losing Richt at FSU.

[Kill'em]

BTW, I love the "UGAy" reference. Just shows how jealous you are of that program.
Jealous of what? They haven't won squat in 25 years, how the hell are we jealous of them?