ISU adds South Dakota

[OSBF]

The Redbirds continue the in-state rivalry with the EIU Panthers and add USD.

http://pantagraph.com/sports/article_5054f5fa-7029-11de-98fe-001cc4c002e0.html

[Redbird Ray]

Soooo....does this mean we aren't moving up after the 2011 ruling is lifted? Sure seems like it if we sign contracts with FCS opponents through 2013.

My how two losing seasons change a program's momentum.

[OSBF]

Soooo....does this mean we aren't moving up after the 2011 ruling is lifted? Sure seems like it if we sign contracts with FCS opponents through 2013.

My how two losing seasons change a program's momentum.

Don't listen the jags on RBF.com, they're pretty much idiots and have no clue what it will take for ISU to move "up" as you call it. We're very far away from the pergatory that is MAC football, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

'bout the only 2 over there that even have a clue are TotalRed and ISUmatt, they get it. We are years and millions of $$ away from going anywhere, that's the reality of where we're at that most aren't willing to see.

[Redbird Ray]

Don't listen the jags on RBF.com, they're pretty much idiots and have no clue what it will take for ISU to move "up" as you call it. We're very far away from the pergatory that is MAC football, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

'bout the only 2 over there that even have a clue are TotalRed and ISUmatt, they get it. We are years and millions of $$ away from going anywhere, that's the reality of where we're at that most aren't willing to see.

I don't doubt what you said here, but even the AD mentions it almost every article he's quoted in. It seems to me that there was a lot more momentum toward the discussion of moving up two years after the playoff run. But I know ISU still has a long way to go financially before FBS talk can resurface. I told Zenger awhile back that if I ever win the mega millions, I'll pay for the Hancock renovations myself.

In any case, these are solid scheduling additions. EIU is always one of the better teams out of the OVC and a 2 for 1 with South Dakota seems reasonable. I would like to see us try to get a home and home with a real tough opponent like App St. or Montana sometime.

[OSBF]

I don't doubt what you said here, but even the AD mentions it almost every article he's quoted in. It seems to me that there was a lot more momentum toward the discussion of moving up two years after the playoff run. But I know ISU still has a long way to go financially before FBS talk can resurface. I told Zenger awhile back that if I ever win the mega millions, I'll pay for the Hancock renovations myself.

In any case, these are solid scheduling additions. EIU is always one of the better teams out of the OVC and a 2 for 1 with South Dakota seems reasonable. I would like to see us try to get a home and home with a real tough opponent like App St. or Montana sometime.

Go back and read the Redbird Rennasiance thing again. The 5-10 year plan was laid out pretty clearly by Zenger. He made a case for all the improvements that needed to be done and laid out the order in which they would be done. I'm going from memory here, so forgive me if I make a mistake, but I think it goes something like this:

Hancock Phase I, turf and scoreboard, done as promised
Redbird Arena, new digital scoreboard, done as promised
New tennis facility on Gregory at the old farm, done as promised
New marquis on main street in front of Kaufman, done as promised
New student rec building, in progress, as promised
New baseball stadium, nearly completed, as promised
Significant upgrades to softball facility, coming soon
Redbird arena completition project with AC and luxury suites for big donors, in the works
Redbird Arena addition to the North for new basketball and athletic offices, in the works

I'm certain I left something out like the Owen Strength and Conditioning center etc etc.


After, and only after all that work is complete and paid for will he start Hancock phases II and III. He's been clear on the schedule from the begining, and its all happened pretty much like he said it would, in the order he said it would.

I fail to see why everyone on our stupid little "home" board gets so worked up on the lack of progress with Hancock. Just read the plan as it was laid out a couple of years ago, there's no mystery here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest zenger fan on the planet, but he has accomplished a tremendous number of significant upgrades to our athletic infrastructure in a short amount of time. I commend him for that. I trust that we will see the Hancock rennovations happen, on schedule, in accordance with the plan and vision Zenger and Bowman have laid before Redbird Nation.

I do agree with you completely on the schedule, EIU is a solid rivalry game and should continue on an annual basis. The evening game with EIU is one of my favorite games every year. USD is a solid schedule addition, much better than Murray St or Austin Peay.

[BearsCountry]

I say your football plans are similar to ours - moving up is in the plans but they aren't going to announce until the cards are right. Too big of a PR hit until it would happen.

[OSBF]

I say your football plans are similar to ours - moving up is in the plans but they aren't going to announce until the cards are right. Too big of a PR hit until it would happen.


PR problem lies in the fact that our football fanbase is pretty weak, and the ones that are the loudest, the message board and blog types, are completely football retarded.

Question for you, would you actually support pulling your mens basketball program out of the MVC for say the SunJoke conf just to move "UP" in football?

[Redbird Ray]

I would probably be willing to play in the Sun Belt or MAC as a football only member (dream scenario) but I don't think I would want to be a full time member. The Valley is too good in baseball and other sports.

Even though hoops has been down the past two seasons, I think this year the Valley is poised for a big turnaround, at least 2 maybe even 3 or 4 teams go dancing this year. Too much talent returning not to. I don't see this sort of BBall potential in the MAC or Sun Belt, or maybe even C-USA.

[OSBF]

I would probably be willing to play in the Sun Belt or MAC as a football only member (dream scenario) but I don't think I would want to be a full time member. The Valley is too good in baseball and other sports.

Even though hoops has been down the past two seasons, I think this year the Valley is poised for a big turnaround, at least 2 maybe even 3 or 4 teams go dancing this year. Too much talent returning not to. I don't see this sort of BBall potential in the MAC or Sun Belt, or maybe even C-USA.

Congrats Ray, I'll add you to my list of Redbird football fans/message board posters that actually are intelligent enough to grasp the big picture, and understand the reality of the position ISU is in.

Leaving the MVC for almost any other conference anyone cares to name would be suicide for most of the other athletic programs at ISU. The MVC is that good. The MAC and the SunJoke are that bad. CUSA prob falls somewhere in between.

[OSBF]

The #1 thing I think most people don't get is just how bad our football facilities really are. Even if there were no plans in the works to go FBS, the stadium and other football facilities need major up grades, even to be on par with most other FCS programs. I go to other stadiums to watch our 'Birds, I see the stadium pics posted here on AGS, man, we are waaaaay behind the 8 ball with that dump of a stadium we have.

[Redbird Ray]

The #1 thing I think most people don't get is just how bad our football facilities really are. Even if there were no plans in the works to go FBS, the stadium and other football facilities need major up grades, even to be on par with most other FCS programs. I go to other stadiums to watch our 'Birds, I see the stadium pics posted here on AGS, man, we are waaaaay behind the 8 ball with that dump of a stadium we have.

Too true. I would be thrilled to get some sort of permanent grandstand not resembling a high school visitors section on the east side. Kaufman was a nice start (although I would have rather they just taken over the whole north end zone), but additional upgrades have to be made in the next 5 years.

[TheBisonator]

Guys, probably the most likely thing to happen, if so many MWFC schools are thinking of moving up, is the entire MWFC going to FBS en masse. I know that our coach and AD at NDSU have raised the issue before.

[OSBF]

Guys, probably the most likely thing to happen, if so many MWFC schools are thinking of moving up, is the entire MWFC going to FBS en masse. I know that our coach and AD at NDSU have raised the issue before.


We've had the same discussions with the MVC. I know it's on the radar of pretty much everyone except WIU and InSU. Would likely be the only way for us to punch our ticket to FBS without leaving the MVC, which would be a suicidal mistake, especially for men's/women's basketball.

[BearsCountry]

Question for you, would you actually support pulling your mens basketball program out of the MVC for say the SunJoke conf just to move "UP" in football?

It would be a tough call. How things have been going with NCAA bids its starting not to matter. Affliate membership in football would be the best if we could serve as UALR's football team, but Sun Belt would want us for all sports. But I do have to say they are making inroads in hoops. WKU is as good as anybody in the Valley, South Alabama has been good, Arkansas State with hiring Brady is in the right direction and the Florida schools have made moves to improve. I will give it a wait and see attitude with the Belt.

If any moving on up happens in the MVC, its going to be us, you guys and SIU leading the way and the Shuckers if they start back up.

[OSBF]

It would be a tough call. How things have been going with NCAA bids its starting not to matter. Affliate membership in football would be the best if we could serve as UALR's football team, but Sun Belt would want us for all sports. But I do have to say they are making inroads in hoops. WKU is as good as anybody in the Valley, South Alabama has been good, Arkansas State with hiring Brady is in the right direction and the Florida schools have made moves to improve. I will give it a wait and see attitude with the Belt.

If any moving on up happens in the MVC, its going to be us, you guys and SIU leading the way and the Shuckers if they start back up.

I agree with you, the 'belt is getting better and the gap with the MVC is not what it was a few years ago. The MAC however is dreadful, just dreadful. I think you have to include the 'guins in this discussion, I seem to remember that at one time they were being courted by the MAC. I don't know if there's been any such discussion at UNI, WIU, or SIU. I always thought the likely candidates to lead the MVC charge tword FBS were MSU, ISU, YSU,SIU, NDSU, and SDSU.

[Redbird Ray]

An awful lot would have to happen for an entire conference move up, but if WIU and INDSU want to stay in FCS, I say let them go to the OVC. Only serious candidate schools from the MVFC. Would love to see Wichita St. get started back up, and take back Tulsa.

But these are all probably pipe dreams. Asking way too much for all these schools.

[bcrawf]

Great discussion guys!

Here is where UNI falls in this discussion. Unlike the other schools mentioned, especially ISU and SIU, UNI does not produce big money alumni, which kills us in athletic fundraising. We are a teacher's college without any post graduate or professional colleges. When you look at the money required to be competitive at an FBS level ($3-4 Million in annual athletic club donations), there is just no way to do that at UNI.

Another thing that hinders us is the Dome that we all love up here. You guys have lots of land to improve stadiums and add seating, we obviously don't. Look at the pain it caused us to fundraise to get the McLeod Center built (which we had to do on the cheap), there is just no way we can get to the point of raising $100+ million to build a stadium.

Also, more than anyone else in the MVFC (sans YSU) we have had great long term success at the IAA/FCS level. We have been a top 10 team for most of the last 25 years and it would be an almost impossible sell to the community and supporters to go from competing for national titles (regardless of level) to hoping to get into the New Orleans Bowl. Iowa is also 90 miles down the road...

I believe that UNI would go along with the entire league if it decided to go FBS, however. We would not want to leave traditional rivals especially SIU and Missouri State.

[ValleyChamp]

UNI is not/will not be looking to move up. I don't see any way that an entire conference would/could move up anyway.

YSU has always wanted to move up, and then I think MSU and ISU are the next most likely. But what is the benifit really? I just dont see what would be better about playing low low level FBS football as compared to high level FCS football.

also, LOL at NDSU and SDSU talking about moving up. You have been D-I for what, 10 minutes now?

[Hammerhead]

It's way to early for any of the Dakota schools to even dream about moving up to the FBS. Right now, I'm just dreaming about a playoff game. :(

[mango43]

UNI is not/will not be looking to move up. I don't see any way that an entire conference would/could move up anyway.

YSU has always wanted to move up, and then I think MSU and ISU are the next most likely. But what is the benifit really? I just dont see what would be better about playing low low level FBS football as compared to high level FCS football.

also, LOL at NDSU and SDSU talking about moving up. You have been D-I for what, 10 minutes now?

I don't think SDSU is considering moving to FBS anytime soon

[Redbird Ray]

As far as ISU is concerned, I think we need to worry about a few things in the immediate future beofre any conversation about moving up can resurface:

1. Try to win (at least) 6 games either this year or next year

2. Create a winning home field advantage so fans don't leave to go tailgate at halftime or so the non-diehards enter the stadium in the first place

3. Keep at the "Spread the Red" campaign not just in Blo-No, but throughout the state, just a thought, some marketing in Chicago and St. Louis might be a novel idea.

4. Once steps 1-3 are done, follow through with stadium enhancements/fundraising

[OSBF]

As far as ISU is concerned, I think we need to worry about a few things in the immediate future beofre any conversation about moving up can resurface:

1. Try to win (at least) 6 games either this year or next year

2. Create a winning home field advantage so fans don't leave to go tailgate at halftime or so the non-diehards enter the stadium in the first place

3. Keep at the "Spread the Red" campaign not just in Blo-No, but throughout the state, just a thought, some marketing in Chicago and St. Louis might be a novel idea.

4. Once steps 1-3 are done, follow through with stadium enhancements/fundraising

I think we need the stadium first. Gonna be hard for our own fanbase or any potential new fans to take us seriously when we play in such a craphole.

[BearsCountry]

As far as ISU is concerned, I think we need to worry about a few things in the immediate future beofre any conversation about moving up can resurface:

1. Try to win (at least) 6 games either this year or next year

2. Create a winning home field advantage so fans don't leave to go tailgate at halftime or so the non-diehards enter the stadium in the first place

3. Keep at the "Spread the Red" campaign not just in Blo-No, but throughout the state, just a thought, some marketing in Chicago and St. Louis might be a novel idea.

4. Once steps 1-3 are done, follow through with stadium enhancements/fundraising

Intresting that those are some of the same things we want done. I would say renovating Hancock should be #1 though.

[BearsCountry]

Great discussion guys!

Here is where UNI falls in this discussion. Unlike the other schools mentioned, especially ISU and SIU, UNI does not produce big money alumni, which kills us in athletic fundraising. We are a teacher's college without any post graduate or professional colleges. When you look at the money required to be competitive at an FBS level ($3-4 Million in annual athletic club donations), there is just no way to do that at UNI.

Another thing that hinders us is the Dome that we all love up here. You guys have lots of land to improve stadiums and add seating, we obviously don't. Look at the pain it caused us to fundraise to get the McLeod Center built (which we had to do on the cheap), there is just no way we can get to the point of raising $100+ million to build a stadium.

Also, more than anyone else in the MVFC (sans YSU) we have had great long term success at the IAA/FCS level. We have been a top 10 team for most of the last 25 years and it would be an almost impossible sell to the community and supporters to go from competing for national titles (regardless of level) to hoping to get into the New Orleans Bowl. Iowa is also 90 miles down the road...

I believe that UNI would go along with the entire league if it decided to go FBS, however. We would not want to leave traditional rivals especially SIU and Missouri State.

I agree with that, UNI has a perfect situation for FCS football as you can ask for. It would be the hardest sell out of all the MVC schools to move up.

[Redbird Ray]

I would love to see Hancock rennovated ASAP. But the fact of the matter is, that won't happen this season, and probably not next either (at least not entirely). But we can control whether we win or not in the next two years. And we can also increase our program's exposure with more effort. But yeah, it would definitely be an easier sell with a better building.

[Redbird Ray]

Having said all of this, even if the team and the stadium sucks, I can't wait for football season!!!!! This is always the cruelest time of the year. xbangx xwhistlex

[JBB]

What do you think of moving the entire MVFC to FBS someday? There are a lot of programs in the conference that have the potential and maybe even the will to do it.

[OSBF]

WOW............

Three pages on AGS about ISU football................

Gotta be a new record

[ValleyChamp]

WOW............

Three pages on AGS about ISU football................

Gotta be a new record

Well, you have to consider that it is something we are all interested in....ISU leaving!xlolxxlolx

[OSBF]

Well, you have to consider that it is something we are all interested in....ISU leaving!xlolxxlolx


Why, then you would only have ISU blue to kick in the nuts every year.

[RichH2]

What is the animus with ISU?

[Redbird Ray]

What do you think of moving the entire MVFC to FBS someday? There are a lot of programs in the conference that have the potential and maybe even the will to do it.

I would love to see it, but I doubt it will ever happen. I do think as it stands right now, we have a league that would rival the MAC and the Sun Belt. xrolleyesx

[biobengal]

Eh, that other ISU: IlSU. xsmiley_wix

[ValleyChamp]

Why, then you would only have ISU blue to kick in the nuts every year.

Actually, Illinois State is the last team that I can remember that really took it to UNI. UNI got pounded in Normal in '05. That is about the only time in recent memory that I can think of UNI getting beat badly.

[Redbird Ray]

Actually, Illinois State is the last team that I can remember that really took it to UNI. UNI got pounded in Normal in '05. That is about the only time in recent memory that I can think of UNI getting beat badly.

Our 05 team got screwed out of the playoffs that year. I seriously think by the end of the year, we had a team that could have made a DEEP playoff run, but no, the Patriot and the MEAC, and the OVC (an EIU team that we drilled earlier that year) etc had to get their auto bids. It's funny how when March Madness comes around I always advocate for the little guy, but come November, all I want are the top 16/20 teams in FCS, screw auto bids.

[BearsCountry]

Actually, Illinois State is the last team that I can remember that really took it to UNI. UNI got pounded in Normal in '05. That is about the only time in recent memory that I can think of UNI getting beat badly.

Heck we beat you guys in 2005 as well. Of course we knocked out Sanders. But I think you would take the repeat of that season any year.

[ValleyChamp]

Yep, I remember that one too. Couple of tough road losses in the middle of that season, but then we battled back and made that great run.

[bandit]

i've always wondered about those domes... are the facilities at UNI, NDSU and SDSU about on par with what Idaho had when they went 1-A? I assume those buildings are all but impossible to expand without completely rebuilding?

[Redbird Ray]

i've always wondered about those domes... are the facilities at UNI, NDSU and SDSU about on par with what Idaho had when they went 1-A? I assume those buildings are all but impossible to expand without completely rebuilding?

South Dakota State doesn't have a dome, but South Dakota (Great West, not MVFC) does, and from what I know about it, that one would be pretty tough to expand.

NDSU's Fargodome could already technically handle FBS crowds, although it would be pretty small by FBS standards. Not sure if there's room for additional expansion.

Pretty sure UNI-Dome is maxed out, but maybe some UNI folks could back that up with more solid info.

Idaho's Kibbie dome seats around 16K for football, but I read somewhere that they are going to expand it to 20K for either this season or next. Good question though, because the dome does sort of limit a team's ability to expand or move up in the future.

[OSBF]

Is the NCAA rule that your stadium be required to seat 30K in order to be considered for moving up to FBS still in place? I know there is the minnimum average attendance rule that they never enforce, but there used to be a stadium size minnimum as well, but I think I remember that being pulled off the table.

[AmsterBison]

Is the NCAA rule that your stadium be required to seat 30K in order to be considered for moving up to FBS still in place? I know there is the minnimum average attendance rule that they never enforce, but there used to be a stadium size minnimum as well, but I think I remember that being pulled off the table.

Yep, pretty sure they got rid of the minimum capacity rule.

[mizzoufan1]

I say your football plans are similar to ours - moving up is in the plans but they aren't going to announce until the cards are right. Too big of a PR hit until it would happen.

MSU is going to have to do A LOT to move up (first of all is improve Plaster Stadium). MSU will also have to be competative with Mizzou and be better than SEMO, UMKC, and SLU to have a chance to get into a league that wants them...

[OSBF]

MSU is going to have to do A LOT to move up (first of all is improve Plaster Stadium). MSU will also have to be competative with Mizzou and be better than SEMO, UMKC, and SLU to have a chance to get into a league that wants them...


Don't kid yourself. They're more than adequate in most all other sports to step into the sunjoke right now.