Fordham FBall Coach Comments on Going to Schollies

[jimbo65]

Here is a link for a Fordham sports blog. http://fordhamsportsnet.com/

The blogger interviews Tom Masella re. the reasons/ramifications of awarding schollies. Generally, Coach Masella attributes our move to "unfavorable" changes to Patriot League rules in awarding need based awards.

One disconnect I saw was if that is the case, then why has Fordham been studying the move for several years.

My own spin, is that if the PL doesn't go to schollies, we will move to greener pastures if given the opportunity.

[Cobblestone]

One of the advantages of awarding scholarships is the ability to schedule games against NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) schools, formerly known as 1-A schools. Fordham has games scheduled with Connecticut in 2011, Navy and Villanova in 2012, and Army in 2014 and 2015.



I would think that's one of the biggest advantages right there. Although Nova is not an FBS team; need to inform the author.

You guys need to start petitioning the CAA for membership ASAP.

[Franks Tanks]

I would think that's one of the biggest advantages right there. Although Nova is not an FBS team; need to inform the author.

You guys need to start petitioning the CAA for membership ASAP.

Nice that Fordham is playing Army, but is is a shame that Army refuses to schedule their traditional rivals like Yale. Also Army and Navy refuse to play their PL mates in football. I understand the bowl issue, but one game a year isnt unreasonable. (or every other year)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Still, Masella believes that being a member of the Patriot League, even with the negotiated restrictions, is better than being an independent.

“To be an independent is not the way to go,” he said. “Yes we had to make some concessions and compromises with the Patriot League. I thought Jeff Gray and Frank McLaughlin did a great job in coming to an agreement with the Patriot League. We don’t want to be an independent. We like our association with the Patriot League. Obviously we’d like to win a title down the road in the Patriot League. That remains to be seen how it all unfolds in the next three years. The short term is we have a schedule. We have our alliance with the Patriot League. It’s a good association. We can’t win a league title. Fine. But we can still go to the national playoffs, and we have a better chance of going in as a member of the Patriot League than we would as an independent. And we still have scheduling. All that was positive. I think the only negative out of the compromise is that our kids cannot win league honors. I was disappointed with that, but that was part of the compromise that Fordham and the Patriot League made.”

Translation: "Patriot League, you have three years to get your act together. If you don't get this thing working, we're out of here."

[Cobblestone]

Nice that Fordham is playing Army, but is is a shame that Army refuses to schedule their traditional rivals like Yale. Also Army and Navy refuse to play their PL mates in football. I understand the bowl issue, but one game a year isnt unreasonable. (or every other year)


I don't think it is a question of Army & Navy refusing to schedule Yale or PL teams. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't an FCS team have to be scholly in order to play an FBS team? I know some folks around here would like to see BC play Holy Cross since BC is playing the CAA teams from New Enland and these two had quite a rivalry at one time. But as I understand it since HC is in non-scholly PL, this game cannot be scheduled.

[DFW HOYA]

I don't think it is a question of Army & Navy refusing to schedule Yale or PL teams. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't an FCS team have to be scholly in order to play an FBS team?

A I-A team can schedule anyone they want, but only games against teams with 57or more scholarships count for bowl participation.

No more than two PL teams approach 57 equivalencies at this point, much less scholarships.

[ngineer]

I was expecting a 'Jim Mora moment'...." Scholarships, your're talking scholarships! Scholarships?!!"...xrolleyesx

[LBPop]

I was expecting a 'Jim Mora moment'...." Scholarships, your're talking scholarships! Scholarships?!!"...xrolleyesx

Or perhaps, an Allen Iverson moment...xrolleyesx ;)

[henfan]

A I-A team can schedule anyone they want, but only games against teams with 57or more scholarships count for bowl participation.

No more than two PL teams approach 57 equivalencies at this point, much less scholarships.

To clarify, FBS institutions may count victories against FCS opponents that have average 90% (i.e.- 56.7 total equivalancies) of the permissible number of FCS grants-in-aid per year over a rolling 2-year period. Those grants do not have to be awarded principally for athletic ability.

[andy7171]

Pretty sure they could play them, but it wouldn't count towards their bowl eligibility. Like Delaware and West Chester, sure they get a win, but it don't count as far as post season chances.

[Franks Tanks]

A I-A team can schedule anyone they want, but only games against teams with 57or more scholarships count for bowl participation.

No more than two PL teams approach 57 equivalencies at this point, much less scholarships.

Yes-- also scholly's and equivalencies are one in the same in the NCAA's eyes here. If a PL team was consistently above 57 equivalencies it is my understanding they would be bowl counters.

[RichH2]

xnodxOn the 2 yr avg, any school with 57 schollies or equivalencies is a counter . Lets hope in a fewyrs that all of PL will be counters. Wonder who the new schools will be;)

[JoltinJoe]

I've heard Fordham is definitely trying to land name opponents for Yankee Stadium games. Fordham is talking to Army right now about Fordham hosting a home game at Yankee Stadium.

[ngineer]

I've heard Fordham is definitely trying to land name opponents for Yankee Stadium games. Fordham is talking to Army right now about Fordham hosting a home game at Yankee Stadium.

Be careful of the wind blowing out to right field...depending on how they position the field, we may see a new NCAA field goal distance record.;)xrolleyesx

[RichH2]

Does it stillcount with the short right field porch if the FG attempt goes into the 2nd deckxnodx

[Wildcat80]

“I think it’s great for our players,” Masella said about playing FBS schools. “I’ve coached at every level. When I was at Louisiana Tech we played all the big boys and we had success. Players always like to play up. They love the challenge of playing up. It’s great for us. It brings revenue into our program but it also brings exposure to our program. It helps us in recruiting. Statistically you’re not going to have great success in those games, but it’s a long season and the impact of playing in that game and possibly every once in a while winning one of those games is just tremendous for our players and our program, and I think it excites our alumni. It’s a great thing. Everybody in 1-AA football (FCS) is doing it and everyone should because you can generate some revenue, you can get some exposure, it helps with recruiting, and the players love the challenge.”

I agree with this philosophy! Next year's UNH game at Pittsburgh is an example. I hope we keep it up. Go Cats!

[Fordham]

Be careful of the wind blowing out to right field...depending on how they position the field, we may see a new NCAA field goal distance record.;)xrolleyesx

HA! xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've heard Fordham is definitely trying to land name opponents for Yankee Stadium games. Fordham is talking to Army right now about Fordham hosting a home game at Yankee Stadium.

That's a great idea - hope it works out. Just hope that Army keeps their side of the bargain, though - ask Lehigh and Yale about that. xlolx

[Husky Alum]

I've heard Fordham is definitely trying to land name opponents for Yankee Stadium games. Fordham is talking to Army right now about Fordham hosting a home game at Yankee Stadium.

There's also talk of a Notre Dame-Army game at the Stadium as well.

[jimbo65]

I've heard Fordham is definitely trying to land name opponents for Yankee Stadium games. Fordham is talking to Army right now about Fordham hosting a home game at Yankee Stadium.

Great news. Lets hope it happens. With the right marketing, we can only dream, I think the game would be a success.

As far as I know, FU and Army did not play eachother in the glory days of those programs. There is the Lombardi link so if this game does take place, how about naming it the Lombardi Cup Game or something such. xthumbsupx

[LUHawker]

That's a great idea - hope it works out. Just hope that Army keeps their side of the bargain, though - ask Lehigh and Yale about that. xlolx

What was the deal between Lehigh and Army? I haven't seen anything regarding an LU-Army match-up in years.

[RichH2]

We werea semi regular playing up at Army. Some very exciting games . I do recallwe were on the future schedule for Army and then we weren't. Dontknow if that had anything to do with "counters" but I think it predated that issue.

[ngineer]

What was the deal between Lehigh and Army? I haven't seen anything regarding an LU-Army match-up in years.

Army will not play us. I spoke with our AD about this a few years back. They have had difficulty beating us and see a loss to Lehigh as a hit to their program. This was before the 'counting' equivalency issue that we have discussed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The main problem Army has with playing Lehigh (or any PL school recently) was that when they schedule games against the PL, all of a sudden the guys running the football program get inundated with testosterone-laden email about "why are they de-emphasizing their program", and that a game versus Lehigh is the "start of a long slide to FCS football and all-sports membership in the Patriot League".

When the PL stopped being counters, there became even less of a reason to call for games. But I do happen to know when Yale was granted games with Army, PL folks were LIVID since PL teams have been asking for those games for years since Army pulled out of a Lehigh series. (Army pulled out of the Yale games too, however.)

Army, IMO, suffers from deep, deep feelings of insecurity about their football program. Folks can't let go of the teams that were national champions in the post-war years of 1944. 1945, and 1946 and can't accept that Army has churned out awful, awful teams for the last 20 years. Did you know that Army has only eclipsed the seven win mark twice during that time, and in those two winning years (1988, 1996) SIX of those wins were against non-scholarship Ivy or Patriot League schools?

Army and Navy both really belong in the Patriot League, with guaranteed OOC games with Notre Dame and Air Force. But there are too many deluded people at both academies that will never let that happen. Unfortunately, it plays into PL scheduling, too.

Perhaps Army is OK with playing Fordham in Yankee stadium since it harkens back to - you guessed it - those 1944-45-46 glory years. Of course, Fordham played Army exactly twice in reality, never played in Yankee Stadium, and when Army was winning national championships Fordham was struggling with post-war football the same way football was struggling at many religious institutions of higher learning.

[DFW HOYA]

Army, IMO, suffers from deep, deep feelings of insecurity about their football program. Folks can't let go of the teams that were national champions in the post-war years of 1944. 1945, and 1946 and can't accept that Army has churned out awful, awful teams for the last 20 years. Did you know that Army has only eclipsed the seven win mark twice during that time, and in those two winning years (1988, 1996) SIX of those wins were against non-scholarship Ivy or Patriot League schools?

Army and Navy both really belong in the Patriot League, with guaranteed OOC games with Notre Dame and Air Force. But there are too many deluded people at both academies that will never let that happen.

Army is not insecure about their team; instead, they suffer in comparison from the relative success enjoyed at the USNA and USAFA. Never mind that it's tougher to recruit an athlete into West Point with an almost 100% guarantee of a combat assignment after commissioning, the fact that Navy does win and that AFA competes in the MWC has a lot of Army grads ask, "why not us?"

No 3-star general wants to walk through the Pentagon the week after an Army loss when some admiral reminds them that Army lost again. And no one wants to be the one to endure the ribbing when that same admiral asks: "We're going to a bowl, you know. Who are you guys playing this week, um, Lehigh?"

As it stands, neither school belongs in the PL for football--these are national schools and their scope is much larger than games with Bucknell and Georgetown. What the PL has learned, albeit the hard way, is that very few schools both fit the PL model and actually want to play in it. Fordham's end-around is going to expose this fissure even more.

[jimbo65]

?

Army and Navy both really belong in the Patriot League, with guaranteed OOC games with Notre Dame and Air Force. .
IMO Army should play FCS schools but those with scholarships. Navy is able to compete at the FBS level as is Air Force. What makes Army considerably worse than its service rivals, I don't know, but my guess is that an Air force or Navy tour of active duty is considered more pleasant and less dangerous by recruits. Not that I was service academy material, but if I was, Army would have been my third pick, or really, not a pick at all.

[Franks Tanks]

IMO Army should play FCS schools but those with scholarships. Navy is able to compete at the FBS level as is Air Force. What makes Army considerably worse than its service rivals, I don't know, but my guess is that an Air force or Navy tour of active duty is considered more pleasant and less dangerous by recruits. Not that I was service academy material, but if I was, Army would have been my third pick, or really, not a pick at all.

Army got killed by New Hampshire last year. I am not exageratting as I watched the game and UNH controlled the game from start to finish and Army really had no chance.


Delaware beat Navy in 07 and Navy went like 8-4 and played in a bowl game. This is also when Navy beat Notre Dame. Many CAA teams are better than Army and Navy.

Army or Navy have also lost to teams like JMU, The Citadel, William & Mary, Holy Cross and Lehigh over the last 20 years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No 3-star general wants to walk through the Pentagon the week after an Army loss when some admiral reminds them that Army lost again. And no one wants to be the one to endure the ribbing when that same admiral asks: "We're going to a bowl, you know. Who are you guys playing this week, um, Lehigh?"

Point extremely well taken - and you're right, that sort of ribbing matters. However, Navy has done an awful lot of schedule downsizing as well - for example, Ball State has owned them in recent years, Delaware beat them two years ago and UMass came damned close to doing so as well before that. They don't play ranked teams very often - and when they do, they generally lose. The same applies, incidentally, to Air Force.

I've heard that "USMA, USNA, USAFA are national universities so should be national football teams" argument before. But in this day and age, how much recruiting really occurs at a game versus, say, Rice? More importantly, how much really occurs versus Temple? I don't buy it anymore - besides, Army and Navy are happy playing in the PL in men's basketball, so why doesn't that argument hold water there?

[DFW HOYA]

Tha academies don't want to be seen playing Georgetown or Bucknell. They're aren't going to move down.

But back to the issue of Fordham and scholarships--if Fordham is not eligible for the PL title, is it obligated to maintain a full PL schedule? What would the PL realistically do if Fordham dropped a PL game to pick up other opponents?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Army got killed by New Hampshire last year. I am not exageratting as I watched the game and UNH controlled the game from start to finish and Army really had no chance.

Delaware beat Navy in 07 and Navy went like 8-4 and played in a bowl game. This is also when Navy beat Notre Dame. Many CAA teams are better than Army and Navy.

Army or Navy have also lost to teams like JMU, The Citadel, William & Mary, Holy Cross and Lehigh over the last 20 years.

I 100% agree about the New Hampshire game. That was a complete and utter embarrassment for Army, whom I witnessed giving up as the game was dragging on.

The other debacle I remember was the 2002 loss to 3-8 Holy Cross on the back of two Ari Confessor returns for touchdowns. I think it was that game that broke Army's back and made them stop scheduling PL teams.

[LBPop]

but my guess is that an Air force or Navy tour of active duty is considered more pleasant and less dangerous by recruits.

I think you may be right, but I am a bit surprised that this sentiment did not change substantially after 9/11/01. I would have expected a "patriotic surge" of interest in the service academies...all of them. In 2003 LBKid was recruited by Navy. He declined their invitation--not because he objected to serving after graduation, but because he had no interest in enduring the service academy lifestyle for his four years of college.

[carney2]

if Fordham is not eligible for the PL title, is it obligated to maintain a full PL schedule? What would the PL realistically do if Fordham dropped a PL game to pick up other opponents?

Fordham is eligible for the P: title in 2009. The smart money says that the Patriot League will be no closer to resolving this issue at this time in 2010 than it is today. Look for Fordham to be eligible for the PL title in 2010 as well.

[RichH2]

Unclear, but I think since FU will give merit aid for this next class that they wont be eligible for PL title next yr. Agree that 1st schollie class wontmake much difference next yr.

Taking my drum in hand, we must come up with an announced plan of some sort by the end of this season not next yr or the yr after. Otherwise we will have dug ourselves a hole that will take yrs to recover from.xrolleyesx

[carney2]

Taking my drum in hand, we must come up with an announced plan of some sort by the end of this season not next yr or the yr after. Otherwise we will have dug ourselves a hole that will take yrs to recover from.xrolleyesx

Get out your shovel.

[RichH2]

Damn, here I am lokking to my mentor for Hope and courage to fight another day and he tells me to dig a latrinexlolx

[henfan]

Army got killed by New Hampshire last year. I am not exageratting as I watched the game and UNH controlled the game from start to finish and Army really had no chance.


Delaware beat Navy in 07 and Navy went like 8-4 and played in a bowl game. This is also when Navy beat Notre Dame. Many CAA teams are better than Army and Navy.

Army or Navy have also lost to teams like JMU, The Citadel, William & Mary, Holy Cross and Lehigh over the last 20 years.

UNH was just a more talented, better coached team than Army last year. There's no mystery to that. IMO, that game was over before it began. Army didn't have the horses up front to stop UNH, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

And while Paul Johnson was able to get some exceptional talent to fit his system at USNA, in one of the Middies best runs in decades, they haven't been much better than a Top 10 FCS team... not that that's a bad thing, IMO. USNA & USMA fans may disagree.

[DFW HOYA]

In semi-Fordham news, Army has announced it will play ND at Yankee Stadium in 2010 and USMA is trying to schedule a game there each year from 2011-13. Fordham had better act quickly, as Syracuse and Rutgers are now vying for games.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/fbc/6534742.html

[RichH2]

Rutgers would be fun, Cuse is a few yrs away from even being competitive much less good, maybe by 2013 or so
Of course that may be ideal for Army