My take on the A10...

[ChickenMan]

While I have stated many times that there is no 'best' conference... as league strength obviously varies from year to year. I do admit that after two consectutive I-AA titles there may have been some excessive chest thumping by some A10 posters. However to put that in some perspective we have to go all the way back to the old 'escribe' board days. Back then A10 supporters were regulary 'smacked' relative to their leagues inability to win in the playoffs. Even in those times... the A10 was always a very strong league... top to bottom. However... until UD and JMU brought home consecutive titles there was little recognition of that strength by the rest of I-AA. So when the titles came ... there was some excessive 'crowing' done by SOME A10 posters and now there is understandably a backlash by SOME other posters. However the fact remains that the A10 is still a very strong conference with more good to very good programs than any other I-AA league. What makes the A10 such a tough league is not it's champions... but it's consistant ability to produce a variety of playoff quality teams year after year... an ability that has been unmatched by any other I-AA conference. All good I-AA leagues have their traditional powers and we all know who they are... but in the A10 it seems a new 'sleeper' steps up each season... Richmond this year... JMU & UNH last year... Northeastern in '02. That overall strength... not consecutive I-AA titles... is what makes the A10 such a tough league.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't think the A-10 performance in the playoffs this year was much different than last year. Last year I think Furman was a better team than JMU and should have beaten the Dukes but blew the game by fumbling inside the two yard line when they should've put it away. Furman doesn't fumble in that situation and we're not talking about the A-10 winning two in a row to begin with. But the Paladins did so we are.

This year I think UNH was better than UNI. I don't know the details of what they did to hurt themselves other than they lost the giveaway/takeaway stat but looking at the dominance they had in terms of which team moved the ball and the chains better they must've done a lot.

In any case both A-10 teams had chances to win yesterday. Both games were very close. One play in each could've had two A-10 teams in the semifinals. The A-10 certainly had teams this year that were good enough to win the national championship, it just didn't happen this time. Doesn't mean that all of a sudden the league went into the dumpster.

I've always maintained that chance plays a role in most national championship runs. There are cases where it doesn't, like Delaware in 2003, but the overwhelming majority of the time the national champion had some breaks somewhere along the way.

[JohnStOnge]

What makes the A10 such a tough league is not it's champions... but it's consistant ability to produce a variety of playoff quality teams year after year... an ability that has been unmatched by any other I-AA conference. .

You know, you reminded me of something I was going to start a thread about at some point. With Texas State making the tournament this time, every Southland program except first-year member Southeastern Louisiana has been to the playoffs. Each but SE LA has won at least one playoff game.

All but two (SE LA and SFA...as SFA last made the tournament in 1995) have made the playoffs during the past five seasons. And, though their won loss record certainly hasn't been spectacular, the five programs that have been to the playoffs over the past five years have all put up at least one peformance indicating a solid, playoff caliber team. Northwestern State gave eventual national champion Montana all it wanted in 2001, Texas State is doing what it's doing this year, McNeese did what it did, Nicholls State lost a very close (14-12), competetive game to Furman this year, and Sam Houston State made the semifinals last year.

I don't think that's quite as good as the A-10 but it's pretty good.

This year the worst team in the Southland, SFA, beat Cal Davis and blew out Western Illinois in non conference play (though they did themselves get blown out by Montana State). Last year a team that finished with two conference wins, Nicholls State, blew out playoff quarterfinalist Eastern Washington during the regular season and beat their own conference champ, Northwestern State, 40-14.

This year conference champion Nicholls State was beaten by the league's last place team (SFA). Meanwhile conference also-ran McNeese beat Georgia Southern at Statesboro.

And Southeastern Louisiana was very close to breaking through this year. I think it's going to be a very strong program.

It really is a very balanced conference most years with relatively little difference between the top and bottom teams. There usually aren't any extremely weak teams that the top teams can chalk up as automatic wins. Just to kind of illustrate: Here's the differences between the top and bottom teams in current Sagarin ratings for the 8 playoff leagues and the Great West:

A-10

[MR. CHICKEN]

IT'S CALLED......."ANY GIVEN SATURDAY"!........xsmoochx........AWK!

[bandl]

I don't think the A-10 performance in the playoffs this year was much different than last year. Last year I think Furman was a better team than JMU and should have beaten the Dukes but blew the game by fumbling inside the two yard line when they should've put it away. Furman doesn't fumble in that situation and we're not talking about the A-10 winning two in a row to begin with. But the Paladins did so we are.


Good teams put the game away before a situation even arises.

Good teams keep themselves in a game to the very end and do whatever the hell they need to do to win.

[JohnStOnge]

Good teams put the game away before a situation even arises.

Good teams keep themselves in a game to the very end and do whatever the hell they need to do to win.

When two good teams play, one of them has to lose.

[Tubby Raymond]

I don't think the A-10 performance in the playoffs this year was much different than last year. Last year I think Furman was a better team than JMU and should have beaten the Dukes but blew the game by fumbling inside the two yard line when they should've put it away. Furman doesn't fumble in that situation and we're not talking about the A-10 winning two in a row to begin with. But the Paladins did so we are.

This year I think UNH was better than UNI. I don't know the details of what they did to hurt themselves other than they lost the giveaway/takeaway stat but looking at the dominance they had in terms of which team moved the ball and the chains better they must've done a lot.

In any case both A-10 teams had chances to win yesterday. Both games were very close. One play in each could've had two A-10 teams in the semifinals. The A-10 certainly had teams this year that were good enough to win the national championship, it just didn't happen this time. Doesn't mean that all of a sudden the league went into the dumpster.

I've always maintained that chance plays a role in most national championship runs. There are cases where it doesn't, like Delaware in 2003, but the overwhelming majority of the time the national champion had some breaks somewhere along the way.

Good post, very reasonable.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What makes the A10 such a tough league is not it's champions... but it's consistant ability to produce a variety of playoff quality teams year after year...

I'll wager you that the Socon would do the same, if they did not have to get out from under three of the winningest programs in IAA. In '03 everyone thought that the Socon was just terrible and that Wofford would go nowhere in the playoffs, and whadda ya know, they came within two touchdowns of going to the national championship, and gave Delaware their toughest hurdle to winning the national championship.

Like I have said before, A10 schools have more name recognition because they have a larger variety of teams in the playoffs.

[JohnStOnge]

Good teams put the game away before a situation even arises.

Good teams keep themselves in a game to the very end and do whatever the hell they need to do to win.

You know, come to think of it, every team in the playoffs lost at least one game this year during the regular season. Heck, New Hampshire lost 42-10 ot a 5-6 team. Good teams do lose games. Stuff happens in football.

[DTSpider]

I think that a team like Richmond is the strength of the A10. We went nose-to-nose with Furman in the quarterfinals. Picked to finish last preseason and won a few nailbiters during the season. Every year there are 5-6 teams that can make the playoffs and can win once they get there (maybe not the whole thing but at least one game).

[ChickenMan]

I'll wager you that the Socon would do the same, if they did not have to get out from under three of the winningest programs in IAA. In '03 everyone thought that the Socon was just terrible and that Wofford would go nowhere in the playoffs, and whadda ya know, they came within two touchdowns of going to the national championship, and gave Delaware their toughest hurdle to winning the national championship.

Like I have said before, A10 schools have more name recognition because they have a larger variety of teams in the playoffs.

I agree with the "three of the winningest programs in I-AA part'" of your post... but the SoCon has traditionaly had some consistantly poor programs and I don't think having to play in the SoCon is the reason for their poor performance. The bottom half of the SoCon... UTC... WCU... Citadel... Elon/VMI have produced only 3 winning seasons in 24 attempts over the past six years. Maybe I just don't get it... but I fail to see how placing those four in the A10 would turn any of them into playoff contenders.

[JohnStOnge]

I think that a team like Richmond is the strength of the A10. We went nose-to-nose with Furman in the quarterfinals. Picked to finish last preseason and won a few nailbiters during the season. Every year there are 5-6 teams that can make the playoffs and can win once they get there (maybe not the whole thing but at least one game).

I agree. For instance, I think Maine was a team last year that would've been a prohibitive favorite to win the OVC or MEAC and get the autobid. I think they'd have had a real good shot to make the playoffs one way or another in any I-AA league other than the A-10. But in the A-10 they finished with a losing record and had no shot. I do think the A-10 is the deepest, most balanced league and I also think that the top teams in it are usually right up there with the top teams nationally.

[bandl]

You know, come to think of it, every team in the playoffs lost at least one game this year during the regular season. Heck, New Hampshire lost 42-10 ot a 5-6 team. Good teams do lose games. Stuff happens in football.

I really seemed to have churned your brain a bit with my one-hit wonder of a post!!! xlolx

I wasn't trying to dispute anything you said, just twisting it a little....Furman may have in fact been the better of the two last year against last year....my point was, if they were in fact, hands down, the better team, they would have put the game away earlier instead of letting JMU hang in there and end the way it did. Vice versa for JMU. Two good teams....one has to lose! UNI reminds me of JMU from last year. They pulled out the game yesterday because, 1) they are a good team, and 2) UNH just didn't take advantage of the stats they put up against UNI.

[JohnStOnge]

I really seemed to have churned your brain a bit with my one-hit wonder of a post!!! xlolx

I wasn't trying to dispute anything you said, just twisting it a little....Furman may have in fact been the better of the two last year against last year....my point was, if they were in fact, hands down, the better team, they would have put the game away earlier instead of letting JMU hang in there and end the way it did. Vice versa for JMU. Two good teams....one has to lose! UNI reminds me of JMU from last year. They pulled out the game yesterday because, 1) they are a good team, and 2) UNH just didn't take advantage of the stats they put up against UNI.

Ok. The main point isn't who was the better team anyway. The main point is that the difference between advancing and being eliminated in the playoffs can be razor thin. Last year if Furman doesn't fumble in that situation JMU goes down in history as losing in the quarterfinals. In 1998 if McNeese doesn't barely miss a field goal at the end of the game loses in the first round. In those two years things worked out and A10 teams won national championships. This year two A-10 teams lost very close games where one play in each could've changed the outcome. It doesn't mean the A-10 teams in the playoffs this year were any less "good enough" to win the national title than they were in 1998 and 2004. The ball just didn't bounce their way this time.

By the way, this kind of discussion makes me think of 1997. McNeese got into the championship game after Delaware stopped them on fourth down but the Cowboys got another chance because of a pre snap illegal motion penalty then kicked a field goal. Later the tight end made a great catch on fourth down to keep the game winning drive alive. Then the same tight end drops an easy TD pass right in his hands the next week and the Cowboys lose the championship game by one point. It doesn't take much to make the difference between agony and glory.

[bandl]

Ok. The main point isn't who was the better team anyway. The main point is that the difference between advancing and being eliminated in the playoffs can be razor thin. Last year if Furman doesn't fumble in that situation JMU goes down in history as losing in the quarterfinals. In 1998 if McNeese doesn't miss a field goal at the end of the game by about a foot UMass loses in the first round. They also benefitted from having a great Georgia Southern team that only lost 9 fumbles all season losing 6 in the national championship game (not that I know it would've changed the outcome to have GSU hold onto the ball because it was basically a game where neither defense could stop the other offense unless it turned it over, but it certainly would've increased the chances). In those two years things worked out and A10 teams won national championships. This year two A-10 teams lost very close games where one play in each could've changed the outcome. It doesn't mean the A-10 teams in the playoffs this year were any less "good enough" to win the national title than they were in 1998 and 2004. The ball just didn't bounce their way this time.

Word up to all that! I, for one, am just very glad that they actually play the games!! Otherwise JMU would NOT have been the '04 NCs!!!

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:


It's 10:40AM and I'm being a loser on my computer while it's beautiful outside. xlolx I'm going to frolic outside until the NFL starts in a few hours. Happy Postings!!!

[I-AA Fan]

Oh God ... here it goes. :boring:

FYI: You are out of it. Allow other conferences & teams to enjoy their moment please.

[ChickenMan]

Ok. The main point isn't who was the better team anyway. The main point is that the difference between advancing and being eliminated in the playoffs can be razor thin. Last year if Furman doesn't fumble in that situation JMU goes down in history as losing in the quarterfinals. In 1998 if McNeese doesn't miss a field goal at the end of the game by about a foot UMass loses in the first round. They also benefitted from having a great Georgia Southern team that only lost 9 fumbles all season losing 6 in the national championship game (not that I know it would've changed the outcome to have GSU hold onto the ball because it was basically a game where neither defense could stop the other offense unless it turned it over, but it certainly would've increased the chances). In those two years things worked out and A10 teams won national championships. This year two A-10 teams lost very close games where one play in each could've changed the outcome. It doesn't mean the A-10 teams in the playoffs this year were any less "good enough" to win the national title than they were in 1998 and 2004. The ball just didn't bounce their way this time.


The margin between and losing in the playoffs is usually slim and sometimes other events have a cause and effect as well. Last year UD was up 31-10 heading into the final quarter in their 2d round playoff game vs W&M. UD unbelievably blew that big lead and W&M went on to lose to JMU the next week in the semi's. Had UD held on to that lead JMU would have been playing at UD in a revenge game for the Hens vs a Dukes team... that dispite being outgained by a three to one margin in the regular season game in Harrisonburg... was able to pull out a win. I'm sure JMU fans were not looking forward to a return match in Newark and we will never know... but I would have liked UD's chances real good to make it back to the finals. I'm not taking anything away from JMU... as they earned their trip to Chattanooga and beat a great Montana team (which UD may not have been able to do) but I really do belive that UD would have been in a much better positon to derail JMU's title hopes than were either W&M or Montana.

[ChickenMan]

By the way, this kind of discussion makes me think of 1997. McNeese got into the championship game after Delaware stopped them on fourth down but the Cowboys got another chance because of a pre snap illegal motion penalty then kicked a field goal. Later the tight end made a great catch on fourth down to keep the game winning drive alive. Then the same tight end drops an easy TD pass right in his hands the next week and the Cowboys lose the championship game by one point. It doesn't take much to make the difference between agony and glory.

I did NOT need to be reminded of that... :bawling:

[blukeys]

The margin between and losing in the playoffs is usually slim and sometimes other events have a cause and effect as well. Last year UD was up 31-10 heading into the final quarter in their 2d round playoff game vs W&M. UD unbelievably blew that big lead and W&M went on to lose to JMU the next week in the semi's. Had UD held on to that lead JMU would have been playing at UD in a revenge game for the Hens vs a Dukes team... that dispite being outgained by a three to one margin in the regular season game in Harrisonburg... was able to pull out a win. I'm sure JMU fans were not looking forward to a return match in Newark and we will never know... but I would have liked UD's chances real good to make it back to the finals. I'm not taking anything away from JMU... as they earned their trip to Chattanooga and beat a great Montana team (which UD may not have been able to do) but I really do belive that UD would have been in a much better positon to derail JMU's title hopes than were either W&M or Montana.

Agreed last year's UD team 's defensive front 7 in particular matched up better against JMU than either W&M or Montana in '04.

[BigApp]

I agree with the "three of the winningest programs in I-AA part'" of your post... but the SoCon has traditionaly had some consistantly poor programs and I don't think having to play in the SoCon is the reason for their poor performance. The bottom half of the SoCon... UTC... WCU... Citadel... Elon/VMI have produced only 3 winning seasons in 24 attempts over the past six years. Maybe I just don't get it... but I fail to see how placing those four in the A10 would turn any of them into playoff contenders.

No, I think you get it, but there's something you may not be catching.

Each conference, from year to year, has bad bottom-half teams. Yes, that includes the A-10. The only difference is the SoCon's bad teams have traditionally been the same programs.

Of those you mentioned (Chattanooga, WCU, The Citadel) would be competitive in practically any other conference in the country. I believe Chattanooga has turned that corner, is poised to unseat Wofford from their perceived spot in our league, and return to the national scene.

[ChickenMan]

No, I think you get it, but there's something you may not be catching.

Each conference, from year to year, has bad bottom-half teams. Yes, that includes the A-10. The only difference is the SoCon's bad teams have traditionally been the same programs.

Of those you mentioned (Chattanooga, WCU, The Citadel) would be competitive in practically any other conference in the country. I believe Chattanooga has turned that corner, is poised to unseat Wofford from their perceived spot in our league, and return to the national scene.

Every year the A10 has three teams and sometimes more.... in the class of your big three... plus there are regularly about 3 or 4 others that are far more competitive than the bottom half of the SonCon. The difference is... the top teams change in the A10... they don't in the SoCon... but no matter who they are... they are all much better than your bottom four. How do you explain the fact that the bottom half of the SoCon has had only 3 winning seasons in 24 attempts over the last 6 seasons??? They sure as heck weren't playing ASU... GSU and FU.... EVERY week.

[89Hen]

I don't think the A-10 performance in the playoffs this year was much different than last year.
Not sure I can agree with that. I understand what you're saying but two of the four A10 teams were knocked out by each other, the other AT Montana where it is always tough to play in December. Wins over GSU and Furman both on the road... maybe you're trying to differentiate between performance and results, but that's a tough case to make.

[89Hen]

Of those you mentioned (Chattanooga, WCU, The Citadel) would be competitive in practically any other conference in the country.
:confused: Please list the other conferences where these teams would be competitive. :cool:

[bandl]

Oh God ... here it goes. :boring:

FYI: You are out of it. Allow other conferences & teams to enjoy their moment please.

FYI, It helps to quote the person you're responding to so that everyone knows. Otherwise, you look just like another poster AppalachianBabe!!! xlolx

[ChickenMan]

:confused: Please list the other conferences where these teams would be competitive. :cool:

MEAC and SWAC... :p

[89Hen]

MEAC and SWAC... :p
Yup, and OVC, but that's it. It was a ridiculous comment. :cool:

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Every year the A10 has three teams and sometimes more.... in the class of your big three... plus there are regularly about 3 or 4 others that are far more competitive than the bottom half of the SonCon. The difference is... the top teams change in the A10... they don't in the SoCon... but no matter who they are... they are all much better than your bottom four. How do you explain the fact that the bottom half of the SoCon has had only 3 winning seasons in 24 attempts over the last 6 seasons??? They sure as heck weren't playing ASU... GSU and FU.... EVERY week.

Name any team in the A10 that wins as consitantly as the Socon "big 3". You can't, and the only team in the Gateway that arguable is in the league with them is YSU. As we saw in 2003, when someone else in the Socon sneaks their way to a Socon championship, they do well.

The less succesfull 5 Socon teams might get some name recognition if they could get out from under the Big 3.

[ChickenMan]

Name any team in the A10 that wins as consitantly as the Socon "big 3". You can't, .

Yes I can... UD... wins more consistanly than ASU and just as much as Furman... and does it in a league where they don't have 4 or 5 conference cup cakes on their schedule each year...

[BigApp]

:confused: Please list the other conferences where these teams would be competitive. :cool:

Well, Let's see:
-SWAC (outright, if not undefeated)
-MEAC (outright, if not undefeated)
-Patriot
-OVC
-Southland (top half)
-Gateway (middle third)
-Big Sky (middle third, all are better than Weber & Idaho State)
-Atlantic 10 (all better than Towson, Villanova, Northeastern) :eek:
-Big South (outright, if not undefeated)
-Great West (a conference full of D2 converts)
-Ivy

Should I continue?? xprost2x

[89Hen]

Should I continue?? xprost2x
By all means... keep drinking. Your comments are getting more outlandish with every chug. It will be fun to see how far down the xidiotx road you will go.

[Wellington]

I think, given proper field conditions, no one could really beat Montanas passing attack last year with Craig Ochs. Im not much of a bragger, but if you look at how badly we killed all of the teams we played last year on turf, it really makes me wonder how we lost to JMU. Oh, wait, since our defense was based on speed, not on size, we couldnt really do much with to tackle their massive line and RB while loosing our footing on that field. :argue:

By the way, as you can tell, this post has NOTHING to do with the A-10, and I am still pissed about last years NC, so just ignore my post. :)

[bandl]

I think, given proper field conditions, no one could really beat Montanas passing attack last year with Craig Ochs. Im not much of a bragger, but if you look at how badly we killed all of the teams we played last year on turf, it really makes me wonder how we lost to JMU. Oh, wait, since our defense was based on speed, not on size, we couldnt really do much with to tackle their massive line and RB while loosing our footing on that field. :argue:
Funny....JMU's defense is based on speed, not on size...yet we had no problem shutting Montana down after the first quarter.

The JMU offense (more specifically, the O-line) literally ran over the Montana defense. No ways around it. If you don't want to get run over....get a bigger defense that doesn't just rely on speed.

Question though...why are we talking about the '04 playoffs in the midst of the '05 playoffs! Back to topic men!!! xlolx

[bandl]

By the way, as you can tell, this post has NOTHING to do with the A-10, and I am still pissed about last years NC, so just ignore my post. :)
No fair...you added this comment after I already made my last post!!

Now you make me look like a douche!! xlolx I don't need your help doing that, ithankyouverymuch!! ;)

[BigApp]

What's "outlandish"?

Have you forgotten that BOTH Chattanooga and Western Carolina (who wore Furman out) had the chance to win the SoCon this year in the final weeks of the season? Let me guess: my comparison to the A-10? Maybe I should expand my statement, then, regarding New Hampshire to include all A-10'ers:

The Atlantic 10 is the Greatest Conference ever to grace a football field on any level.

I guess that makes me sane now, right? :rolleyes: If so, I think I'd rather stay xidiotx and in touch with the real world.

[eaglesrthe1]

Every year the A10 has three teams and sometimes more.... in the class of your big three...

It would be nice if it were true...but it's not. Conference strength is certainly fluid and changes from year to year, but the fact of the matter is that the SoCon representatives have gotten the best of the A-10 representatives in the playoffs, by a wide margin. Sure you can pull spans and particulars out of your ass...but if you just look from the beginning to the end...the numbers tell the tale.



The difference is... the top teams change in the A10... they don't in the SoCon... .but no matter who they are... they are all much better than your bottom four


The top teams in one conference is better than the bottom teams in another. Thank you Mr Obvious.

[Cocky]

I agree. For instance, I think Maine was a team last year that would've been a prohibitive favorite to win the OVC or MEAC and get the autobid. I think they'd have had a real good shot to make the playoffs one way or another in any I-AA league other than the A-10. But in the A-10 they finished with a losing record and had no shot. I do think the A-10 is the deepest, most balanced league and I also think that the top teams in it are usually right up there with the top teams nationally.

I disagree with Maine would have been the prohibitive favorite in the OVC JSU and EKU last year every bit as good if not better than Maine. While JSU, EKU and EIU might not win many other conferences they would be competitive in any league. JSU played Furman this year to a last play win while finishing 3rd in the OVC. EKU played App a very close game. EIU played a good game against SIU. JSU has improved quite a bit since the Southland days and we were able to pull a few upsets even then. I do agree the OVC is top to bottom one of the weaker league but the top three are not that far from being very competitive with anyone in I-AA.

[JohnStOnge]

Not sure I can agree with that. I understand what you're saying but two of the four A10 teams were knocked out by each other, the other AT Montana where it is always tough to play in December. Wins over GSU and Furman both on the road... maybe you're trying to differentiate between performance and results, but that's a tough case to make.

I think the A10 was a bit tougher last year than this year but I don't think the performance of the teams that were there was that much different. Four teams made it last year and all four had competetive games in the first round (27-23, 42-35, 28-14, 14-13). This year the two teams that were there had easy first round wins (55-21, 38-10). Last year in the second round against non conference teams the A10 lost one 47-17 and won one 14-13. This year they lost two by 24-20 and 24-21. Last year at this time the A-10 was 5-1 against other teams and this year they're 2-2, but last year with the ball bouncing a little differently they could easily have lost three first round games and this year with it bouncing a little differently they could be 4-0 right now with a chance for an all A-10 final. It wouldn't have taken much at all last year to end up with a situation where nobody from the A-10 made it out of the quarterfinals...depending on what Delaware did if it had been the only one to make it out of the first round.

It's all "ifs" but it's nevertheless true. Team by team the A-10 didn't dominate the tournament in the sense of just running over everybody it played. There were a lot of very close games that could've gone either way.

[ChickenMan]

It would be nice if it were true...but it's not. Conference strength is certainly fluid and changes from year to year, but the fact of the matter is that the SoCon representatives have gotten the best of the A-10 representatives in the playoffs, by a wide margin. Sure you can pull spans and particulars out of your ass...but if you just look from the beginning to the end...the numbers tell the tale.



That WAS true a looong while ago... but it doesn't hold water anymore... the last ten years in the playoffs... times have changed...

'96... ETSU 31 Nova 29

'97... UD 16 GSU 7

'98... UMass 55 GSU 43

'99... UMass 30 Furman 23... GSU 38 UMass 21

'00... Hofstra 31 Furman 24... GSU 48 Hofstra 20... GSU 27 UD 18

'01... ASU 40 W&M 27

'02... Nova 45 Furman 38... Maine 14 ASU 13... GSU 31 Maine 7

'03... UD 24 Wofford 9

'04... UNH 27 GSU 23... JMU 14 Furman 13

'05... Furman 24 Richmond 20

the totals...

SoCon... 7

A10... 9

that total includes 7 different schools from the A10 with playoff wins vs the SoCon

over and out... :D

[crunifan]

Well, Let's see:
-SWAC (outright, if not undefeated)
-MEAC (outright, if not undefeated)
-Patriot
-OVC
-Southland (top half)
-Gateway (middle third)
-Big Sky (middle third, all are better than Weber & Idaho State)
-Atlantic 10 (all better than Towson, Villanova, Northeastern) :eek:
-Big South (outright, if not undefeated)
-Great West (a conference full of D2 converts)
-Ivy

Should I continue?? xprost2x

Chattanooga, WCU, and The Citadel would be on part with Western Illinois and Missouri State which were in the bottom of the conference. If you think those teams would beat WKU and lllinois State you are taking crazy pills...

[89Hen]

What's "outlandish"?
The fact that you're trying to pass of teams in the SoCon who are basically non-competitive most years as being competitive if they were in the A10, Gateway, Big Sky.... :rolleyes: It would be like me saying Northeastern would more competitive if they were in the SoCon or Gateway or Big Sky. That's just not true. They'd no more competitive in any of the big leagues.

[DB_Atlantic10]

The fact that you're trying to pass of teams in the SoCon who are basically non-competitive most years as being competitive if they were in the A10, Gateway, Big Sky.... :rolleyes: It would be like me saying Northeastern would more competitive if they were in the SoCon or Gateway or Big Sky. That's just not true. They'd no more competitive in any of the big leagues.

Yes, that was kind of ridiculous....if they would be competitive, they would be in the play-offs more often from their own league. Being competitive is one thing, but bieng an automatic win is another. If I smoked W@@d, I would definitely ask for some of that stash..... :cool:

[Eagle22]

I did NOT need to be reminded of that... :bawling:

If you want happy thoughts from 1997, just think of the week prior when UD stuffed GSU on several 4th and goal instances in PJ's first season at the helm.

GSU, like UD, McNeese and six or so other teams were just a break away from a possible National Championship that year.

[ChickenMan]

If you want happy thoughts from 1997, just think of the week prior when UD stuffed GSU on several 4th and goal instances in PJ's first season at the helm.

GSU, like UD, McNeese and six or so other teams were just a break away from a possible National Championship that year.


I did like that one a LOT better than the '00 playoff game in Newark... GSU derailed what I thought was a real good UD team that year.

[blukeys]

If you want happy thoughts from 1997, just think of the week prior when UD stuffed GSU on several 4th and goal instances in PJ's first season at the helm.

GSU, like UD, McNeese and six or so other teams were just a break away from a possible National Championship that year.


Without a doubt. UD missed going to the finals because of an Illegal procedure penalty on McNeese State!!!!!

[JohnStOnge]

I disagree with Maine would have been the prohibitive favorite in the OVC JSU and EKU last year every bit as good if not better than Maine. While JSU, EKU and EIU might not win many other conferences they would be competitive in any league. JSU played Furman this year to a last play win while finishing 3rd in the OVC. EKU played App a very close game. EIU played a good game against SIU. JSU has improved quite a bit since the Southland days and we were able to pull a few upsets even then. I do agree the OVC is top to bottom one of the weaker league but the top three are not that far from being very competitive with anyone in I-AA.

We'll never know but at the very least I don't think my opinion is unreasonable. In their three nonconference games last year Maine lost 20-27 at eventual national runner up Montana, beat Mississippi State 9-7, and beat Northern Colorado 38-0. During the season the Black Bears lost by 5 to playoff participant Delaware, by 14 to playoff participant New Hampshire, and by 4 to eventual national champion JMU.

In its nonconference regular season games Jacksonville State beat Emporia State 25-16 and did smash Chattanooga 65-20...but in the playoffs lost to the only playoff team it played (Furman) 49-7. For what it's worth, Maine finished 12th among I-AA teams...7th in the A-10 but higher than anybody Great West, MEAC, OVC, or Patriot...according to the Sagarin ratings and would've been a 9 point favorite by that system to beat Jacksonville State on a neutiral field.

I do think Jacksonville State was better this year than last year in spite of the fact that they didn't win their league (Eastern Illinois played respectably against SIU), but I was talking about last year. Last year I think the A-10 was extremely tough with the majority of the conference being playoff caliber teams who knocked each other off.