SEC of FCS?

[Cobblestone]

According to a certain college football publication xwhistlex that distinction goes to the CAA. xthumbsupx

I guess that makes us Miss. State. xnonono2x

Thoughts?

[smallcollegefbfan]

According to a certain college football publication xwhistlex that distinction goes to the CAA. xthumbsupx

I guess that makes us Miss. State. xnonono2x

Thoughts?

Which FBS conference has the most national titles? I would say if that is the SEC then the SoCon is the SEC of FCS and then the CAA would be the Big 12 of FCS. I personally look at the CAA and SoCon as equals because the SoCon clearly has the upper hand in national titles and playoff wins but the CAA puts the most teams in the playoffs and probably from 3-8 is stronger than the SoCon.

[GannonFan]

Which FBS conference has the most national titles? I would say if that is the SEC then the SoCon is the SEC of FCS and then the CAA would be the Big 12 of FCS. I personally look at the CAA and SoCon as equals because the SoCon clearly has the upper hand in national titles and playoff wins but the CAA puts the most teams in the playoffs and probably from 3-8 is stronger than the SoCon.

I'd have it the other way around. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 doesn't really have many other title contenders (especially since the erosion of Nebraska). The SEC, though, a whole host of teams could win the whole thing. The SoCon's like the Big 12 - there's Appy, and there's... maybe Wofford. Georgia Southern is like Nebraska, their glory days are hard to remember but they were some real serious glory days, no doubt. The CAA's had 4 different schools win titles in 10 years, and have had 6 different schools make at least the semis in the past 6 years. The SoCon has Marshall's and the '80's version of GSU to fall back on, but the tide's clearly turned.

[OL FU]

What's the Yankee Conference of FBSxconfusedx:)

[phillyAPP]

What's the Yankee Conference of FBSxconfusedx:)

THE big 10...............LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'd have it the other way around. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma, the Big 12 doesn't really have many other title contenders (especially since the erosion of Nebraska). The SEC, though, a whole host of teams could win the whole thing. The SoCon's like the Big 12 - there's Appy, and there's... maybe Wofford. Georgia Southern is like Nebraska, their glory days are hard to remember but they were some real serious glory days, no doubt. The CAA's had 4 different schools win titles in 10 years, and have had 6 different schools make at least the semis in the past 6 years. The SoCon has Marshall's and the '80's version of GSU to fall back on, but the tide's clearly turned.

Yeah most of the SoCon's dominance is from GSU back in the day and Marshall, who has left. I think ASU is pretty much carrying the banner but it does appear that Wofford is going to be good for a while, or as long as Ayers is the HC, and then GSU is coming back. I am not saying GSU will win 6 more NCs but I do see them back in the top 10 here in the next two years and do believe they will become a contender once again. GSU will be back in the NC game here within the next 4 or 5 years as long as Hatcher is still there. He is turning that program back in the direction it was under Johnson.

[TheBisonator]

Then the MVFC is the Big Ten of the FCS, right??

[GannonFan]

Then the MVFC is the Big Ten of the FCS, right??

I believe UNI is the best FCS equivalent of Ohio St., no? xlolx

[TheBisonator]

I believe UNI is the best FCS equivalent of Ohio St., no? xlolx

And I suppose NDSU is like (thinking of middling Big Ten team with more storied recent past) Wisconsin...:D

[andy7171]

I call Vandy!

[FargoBison]

I believe UNI is the best FCS equivalent of Ohio St., no? xlolx

Ohio State has actually won a title, I'd say YSU is more like Ohio State. UNI is Wisconsin or Iowa like, they get to a few big bowl games but never win the big one

[93henfan]

PL = Big East?

[TheBisonator]

And I suppose SDSU would be more like Minnesota, a program with a not so good history that in recent years has done a lot to better their program. And I really can't think of any more comparisons...

[FargoBison]

NDSU-Penn State
YSU-Michigan
SIU-Ohio State
UNI-Wisconsin
SDSU-Purdue
WIU-Minnesota
Indiana St-Indiana
Ill St- Illinois
MSU- Northwestern

I'll try to explain this a bit later, some fits are better than others. NDSU and PSU for example are both solid programs that haven't won titles for a while. YSU like Michigan has titles in the 90s but nothing recently. SIU like Ohio State has the most recent title but has struggled since. UNI and Wisconsin both are solid programs but no titles.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The CAA has in recent history been better top-to-bottom than the SoCon, but not by as much as it seems. For the most part, in the last 10 years the CAA has been at least 33% bigger than the SoCon. Also, I know people get tired of hearing this, but having a split league helps. I'm sorry, but there's no way that last year CAA teams like W&M, Maine, and UNH were any better than SoCon teams like Furman, Elon, and maybe even Samford.

If more SoCon teams had more opportunities for the playoffs we'd probably have more semifinalists and quarterfinalists. Just look at Wofford. Three years in a row ('02-'04) they had 7 DI wins and more than 7 wins overall, but only got into the playoffs in '03 when they actually gor the autobid. And when they did they were the second-best team in the tournament.

[I-AA Fan]

SEC of FCS? Why? The SoCon is clearly the "SEC" in most all ways ...including titles, which is what I assume you are hinting to. The CAA is just like it's local counterpart ...the Big East: solid in football, more geared for basketball. The OVC & MVFC is like the Big-10 (all sports, down as of late, like to run the ball with one exception), ...this continues west.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

The CAA has in recent history been better top-to-bottom than the SoCon, but not by as much as it seems. For the most part, in the last 10 years the CAA has been at least 33% bigger than the SoCon. Also, I know people get tired of hearing this, but having a split league helps. I'm sorry, but there's no way that last year CAA teams like W&M, Maine, and UNH were any better than SoCon teams like Furman, Elon, and maybe even Samford.

If more SoCon teams had more opportunities for the playoffs we'd probably have more semifinalists and quarterfinalists. Just look at Wofford. Three years in a row ('02-'04) they had 7 DI wins and more than 7 wins overall, but only got into the playoffs in '03 when they actually gor the autobid. And when they did they were the second-best team in the tournament.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but UNH came pretty close to making the semifinals of the playoffs last year.

I know less about Furman and Samford's resumes last year, but know Elon got hammered by Liberty with a playoff bid on the line. That is pretty indefensible.

If you matched the teams you mention up into 3 games, CAA wins 2 of 3 and possibly 3 of 3 last year.

[BearsCountry]

NDSU-Penn State
YSU-Michigan
SIU-Ohio State
UNI-Wisconsin
SDSU-Purdue
WIU-Minnesota
Indiana St-Indiana
Ill St- Illinois
MSU- Northwestern

I'll try to explain this a bit later, some fits are better than others. NDSU and PSU for example are both solid programs that haven't won titles for a while. YSU like Michigan has titles in the 90s but nothing recently. SIU like Ohio State has the most recent title but has struggled since. UNI and Wisconsin both are solid programs but no titles.

Northwestern? I say we are more like Minnesota. Big school, great resources, big city - poor to average results.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I understand the point you're trying to make, but UNH came pretty close to making the semifinals of the playoffs last year.

I know less about Furman and Samford's resumes last year, but know Elon got hammered by Liberty with a playoff bid on the line. That is pretty indefensible.

If you matched the teams you mention up into 3 games, CAA wins 2 of 3 and possibly 3 of 3 last year.

I think he is talking about more on a overall scale and not one year. Yeah there have been years the top 3 in the CAA would go 3 for 3 and years where the SoCon would go 3 for 3. Last year the CAA was clearly a better league but over the last 25 years the SoCon has been the best in the playoffs. Of course, Marshall is no longer around and GSU is down so right now is the time for the CAA to take the torch but they have to keep a SoCon team from winning the NC this year and really need to go on a run like win 3 of the next 4 NC or so to take the torch because the SoCon still has 3 of the last 4 NCs.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

The CAA is just like it's local counterpart ...the Big East: solid in football, more geared for basketball.

Please substantiate on this comparison. What have Big East football teams accomplished over the last half dozen years besides lose a whole bunch of Orange Bowl games?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I think he is talking about more on a overall scale and not one year. Yeah there have been years the top 3 in the CAA would go 3 for 3 and years where the SoCon would go 3 for 3. Last year the CAA was clearly a better league but over the last 25 years the SoCon has been the best in the playoffs. Of course, Marshall is no longer around and GSU is down so right now is the time for the CAA to take the torch but they have to keep a SoCon team from winning the NC this year and really need to go on a run like win 3 of the next 4 NC or so to take the torch because the SoCon still has 3 of the last 4 NCs.

He said last year in his post.

[blueballs]

The SoCon has Marshall's and the '80's version of GSU to fall back on, but the tide's clearly turned.

GSU wasn't in the SoCon during the Erk Russell era... GSU has won 2 NC's (99,00)as a member of the SoCon.

[GannonFan]

I'm sorry, but there's no way that last year CAA teams like W&M, Maine, and UNH were any better than SoCon teams like Furman, Elon, and maybe even Samford.


Furman barely eekes out a 2 point win against the Hens, in Greenville nonetheless, while Maine comes into Newark and thumps the same Hens team by 17 and W&M comes into Newark and wins by 24, holding the Hens to 3 points. And UNH beat Maine at Maine and played a 4 point game against W&M. I'm thinking there's a decent case to be made that W&M, Maine, and UNH were all a lot better than Furman. And seriously, Samford? That's almost smack talk!!! xlolxxlolxxlolx

[GannonFan]

SEC of FCS? Why? The SoCon is clearly the "SEC" in most all ways ...including titles, which is what I assume you are hinting to. The CAA is just like it's local counterpart ...the Big East: solid in football, more geared for basketball.

"Solid"? Really? First of all, is the Big East even "solid"? And in the past 6 years, 3 different CAA schools have won the national title, 6 different schools have made the semis, and there's been a CAA school (UD the only repeat one) in every national title game other than '05. The Big East would die to be as "solid" as that. xlolxxlolxxlolx

[89Hen]

If I had to rank the two conference together based on last year...

1. Richmond
1a. JMU
3. AppSt
4. Villanova
5. UNH
6. Wofford
7. W&M
8. Maine
9. Elon
10. UMass
11. GSU
12. Furman
after that it's a crap shoot.

[andy7171]

Should have used gray instead of red. :)

[WMTribe90]

I'm sorry, but there's no way that last year CAA teams like W&M, Maine, and UNH were any better than SoCon teams like Furman, Elon, and maybe even Samford.

UR handily beat Elon and WM lost to UR in OT despite five turnevers. Furman barleybeats UD in Greensville and WM handily beats UD in Newark. I try not to get into theses interconference pissing matches, but this statement just doesn't hold water.

[grizband]

Can I equate the Big Sky to the Pac-10? One dominant team, with a bevy of others who occasionally rise up to test their mettle.

[jmufan999]

hahahahahahaha i haven't read ONE single post (other than the very first one) and i bet there are people FUMING mad about it right now....... let's see if i'm right....

[jmufan999]

Can I equate the Big Sky to the Pac-10? One dominant team, with a bevy of others who occasionally rise up to test their mettle.

yes. absolutely. but even more unbelievably, Montana has dominated the BSC even MORE than USC has dominated the Pac-10. which is pretty amazing.

89Hen, your list looks pretty good... i might swap UNH and Wofford, but i would also consider swapping UMass with Elon.

1. Richmond
1a. JMU
3. AppSt
4. Villanova
5. UNH
6. Wofford
7. W&M
8. Maine
9. Elon
10. UMass
11. GSU
12. Furman

one final point.... when people talk about the CAA having a big league.... having a big league doesn't get you 4 national titles from 4 DIFFERENT schools in the past decade. in order to do that, you have to win in the playoffs. and also, keep in mind, Villanova would have been in the semis last year also, had they not lost to another CAA team.

[I-AA Fan]

Please substantiate on this comparison. What have Big East football teams accomplished over the last half dozen years besides lose a whole bunch of Orange Bowl games?

I guess I am older than you. Historically the Big East is very solid in football, but more geared to basketball. In football, the teams tend to have top-notch linebackers, run the ball well, drop back QB's, etc. Obviously things change, but not as much as people think. My point was that styles of football are very regional, so most I-AA teams will play similar to the IA teams in their area, thus conferences will generally mirror each other as well.

Not related to the same post, but historically, the PL is the smaller counter-part to the once mighty Ivy League. They may be in the same division now ...but not historically.

As to the comments that YSU is much like Michigan, and not OSU ...I would say yes and no. Historically, YSU is like Michigan in terms of dominance and titles. However, in terms of the way YSU plays the game, they are a clone of OSU (or maybe the traditional Syracuse defense) ...for obvious reasons. Tressel's father & Hayes were friends. Tressel learned from his dad, began his career at Syracuse, then to off to OSU ...took over YSU and converted that program into a Woody Hayes clone, then took over OSU & returned the team to that same style & mindset.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't think any FCS conference has the ego of the SEC. xoopsx

[Reign of Terrier]

If I'm not mistaken 3 Socon teams have appeared in the NC in the past decade while winning 5. I wasn't really that football aware until about 03ish so I will guess GSU in '99 and'00, Furman in '02(?) and App with the three-peat. I honestly think that UD's '03 team was probably one of the best FCS teams ever (at least top 10), If Wofford wins that game we would talk about the Socon being the definite SEC of the conference with 6 NC's over 3 teams in the past decade with 7 appearancesxnodx


t that's an if though, but we still have 6 appearances with 5 wins in the past decade.

[GannonFan]

I don't think any FCS conference has the ego of the SEC. xoopsx


Nor the number of times member teams have gone on probation either. xnonox

[Skjellyfetti]

UR handily beat Elon and WM lost to UR in OT despite five turnevers. Furman barleybeats UD in Greensville and WM handily beats UD in Newark. I try not to get into theses interconference pissing matches, but this statement just doesn't hold water.

xrolleyesx

That kind of logic doesn't hold water.

UR beat Elon AND William and Mary. Both Furman and WM beat UD. Who cares how close the games were... all that matters is who won.

App beat Wofford by 46. JMU only beat Wofford by 3. Is there anything to read into the two scores? NO. They are two different games... two different matchups, etc. It doesn't say anything about the two conferences.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

xrolleyesx

That kind of logic doesn't hold water.

UR beat Elon AND William and Mary. Both Furman and WM beat UD. Who cares how close the games were... all that matters is who won.

App beat Wofford by 46. JMU only beat Wofford by 3. Is there anything to read into the two scores? NO. They are two different games... two different matchups, etc. It doesn't say anything about the two conferences.

I completely disagree that the marigin of victory is completely unimportant. It's just that you can just as easily argue that teams like Elon and Samford and Furman are just as good as UNH and Maine. (read ahead)


Furman barely eekes out a 2 point win against the Hens, in Greenville nonetheless, while Maine comes into Newark and thumps the same Hens team by 17 and W&M comes into Newark and wins by 24, holding the Hens to 3 points. And UNH beat Maine at Maine and played a 4 point game against W&M. I'm thinking there's a decent case to be made that W&M, Maine, and UNH were all a lot better than Furman. And seriously, Samford? That's almost smack talk!!! xlolxxlolxxlolx

I can compare scores all day long, too. JMU goes undefeated in the CAA, has an average marigin of victory in conference games that is larger than App's, yet barely beats App. in Harrisburg. That, and App. squeaks by GSU and Elon ( with the Elon game being in Boone) in one-possession games, and has a fight on their hands with Samford until the very end of the game (App. won by 11). Stony brook loses to Maine by 15 but loses to Elon by 10 (not much of a difference there). Maine loses to Richmond 27 while Elon loses to Richmond by 18. App. beats Wofford by 46 and JMU beats them by 3. etc. etc. etc. etc.

If you guys could have switched places with UNH or Maine I think you would have been at least a bubble team for the playoffs. Ditto with W&M. And I think you know that.

[TribeNomad]

Not to be picky---but I was a personal witness to the UR-WM game, and we had seven, not five turnovers----still hard to believe we were able to get the game to OT with all that carnage!!!

[JohnStOnge]

The CAA as been the strongest I-AA/FCS conference overall since 1998. If you go by Sagarin Ratings,it's (CAA or A10) been rated as the strongest I-AA/FCS conference 5 times in the past 11 years (if I counted right). But it doesn't make sense like the Southeastern Conference in FBS does. The Southeastern Conference being toughest in FBS makes sense because the Southeastern United States is the most productive region in terms of production of football players. The Southern, Southland, SWAC, and MEAC are all, overall, located in footprints more productive in terms of football players than the CAA is.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I guess I am older than you. Historically the Big East is very solid in football, but more geared to basketball. In football, the teams tend to have top-notch linebackers, run the ball well, drop back QB's, etc. Obviously things change, but not as much as people think. My point was that styles of football are very regional, so most I-AA teams will play similar to the IA teams in their area, thus conferences will generally mirror each other as well.


Which of the CAA football schools are more 'geared towards' hoops?

Villanova, Richmond, Umass? Anyone else?

The Big East hasn't been 'solid' in football since Miami and Va Tech left. They were barely a Top 5 football conference, even back then.

[GannonFan]

If you guys could have switched places with UNH or Maine I think you would have been at least a bubble team for the playoffs. Ditto with W&M. And I think you know that.

Who do you mean "you guys"? Delaware? Hey, I'm as big of a Delaware fan as you can find, but Delaware would not have been a bubble team in any alignment you could make out of the CAA. Changing divisions wouldn't have changed the fact that Delaware didn't have a QB.

And as for W&M, of course they could've been a bubble team in the CAA North - they were a bubble team, and probably the last team out of the playoffs, in the CAA South. xrotatehx

[jmu_duke07]

The CAA as been the strongest I-AA/FCS conference overall since 1998. If you go by Sagarin Ratings,it's (CAA or A10) been rated as the strongest I-AA/FCS conference 5 times in the past 11 years (if I counted right). But it doesn't make sense like the Southeastern Conference in FBS does. The Southeastern Conference being toughest in FBS makes sense because the Southeastern United States is the most productive region in terms of production of football players. The Southern, Southland, SWAC, and MEAC are all, overall, located in footprints more productive in terms of football players than the CAA is.

I believe the VA portion, especially tidewater VA is considered a hotbed for football... but you are correct that most of the CAA (schools in Maryland and above) aren't usually considered big areas of college football.

[blukeys]

Which of the CAA football schools are more 'geared towards' hoops?

Villanova, Richmond, Umass? Anyone else?

The Big East hasn't been 'solid' in football since Miami and Va Tech left. They were barely a Top 5 football conference, even back then.

Northeastern, Rhode Island (A-10), Old Dominion (football upcoming). Georgia State (football in 2012)

Not to mention the really obvious. George Mason, Virginia Commonwealth, North Carolina Wilmington, Drexel etc. etc.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Northeastern, Rhode Island (A-10), Old Dominion (football upcoming). Georgia State (football in 2012)

Not to mention the really obvious. George Mason, Virginia Commonwealth, North Carolina Wilmington, Drexel etc. etc.

How can you compare it as a foootball conference versus a hoops conference this way? The teams you mention don't have football teams.

Forgot about Rhody.

Sagarin rating of top CAA football teams is just as good, if not better, than the Sagarin rating of top CAA hoops teams over the last few years.

[93henfan]

I believe the VA portion, especially tidewater VA is considered a hotbed for football... but you are correct that most of the CAA (schools in Maryland and above) aren't usually considered big areas of college football.

Don't forget Jersey.

[paward]

This post is not going anywhere!

[chrisattsu]

I still haven't figured out where the Southland figures into all of this...

:(

I feel like our conference is like the SEC where it is a daunting task to go through the slate undefeated and any team can upset you any time. However, we lack the hardware to be compared with that conference.

[appfan2008]

I have always thought of the socon as the sec of th fcs

[blukeys]

How can you compare it as a foootball conference versus a hoops conference this way? The teams you mention don't have football teams.

Forgot about Rhody.

Sagarin rating of top CAA football teams is just as good, if not better, than the Sagarin rating of top CAA hoops teams over the last few years.

YOU asked which CAA teams are "geared more towards hoops." I gave you the answer. YOu say forget about Rhody. I say Rhody is "geared more towards hoops" than football. Do you disagree???? Clearly Rhody cares very little about football.

I mentioned ODU and GSU as they are bringing in football but both have appeared in the NCAA Men's and in the case of ODU, women's BBall tournament.

I can't help it if the criteria you have established ("which teams are more geared towards hoops" ) is so broad and vague that even teams without a current football team could fit. BUT, YOU ASKED THE QUESTION.

Nest time extablish your parameters. Otherwise live with the fact that there are those of us who will read your PRINTED word and respond to that.

[jmufan999]

If I'm not mistaken 3 Socon teams have appeared in the NC in the past decade while winning 5. I wasn't really that football aware until about 03ish so I will guess GSU in '99 and'00, Furman in '02(?) and App with the three-peat. I honestly think that UD's '03 team was probably one of the best FCS teams ever (at least top 10), If Wofford wins that game we would talk about the Socon being the definite SEC of the conference with 6 NC's over 3 teams in the past decade with 7 appearancesxnodx.

Furman was bounced in the first round in 2002 by CAA member Villanova.

no one is saying the SoCon is a bad conference! we're just answering the thread question with our opinions... and as far as Championship appearances... when did that ever count for anything? in 2008, Montana didn't win anything more than JMU, who didn't win anything more than UNH. 2nd place means jack.

what i think you're missing is that you have only TWO different champs in that span, whereas we have four. SoCon folks love to claim App State, even though it's the Mountaineers that are kicking your tails in-conference year in and year out... 29-3 conference record since 2005. their 3 losses have only been by a total of 17 points. (which, by the way, is absolutely amazing) But App State does not equal SoCon dominance... it equals App State dominance. Utah does not equal a great Mountain West Conference... it's just Utah (not that the other schools aren't good, but Utah has put up 2 undefeated seasons and 2 BCS bowl wins since 2004). Montana/Big Sky, same deal. one team doing well does not make a conference look good, it makes that team look good.

and if you want to get down and dirty about it, the CAA was 4-0 when comparing the top 3 teams in 2008 (Villanova did not play any SoCon teams but did beat national champion Richmond):

CAA #3 Richmond over SoCon #3 Elon, 28-10
#1 JMU over #1 App State, 35-32
#3 Richmond over #1 App State, 33-13
#1 JMU over #2 Wofford, 38-35

that's a combined score of 134-90, or an average score of 33.5-22.5 per game. one more thing:


If Wofford wins that game we would talk about the Socon being the definite SEC of the conference with 6 NC's over 3 teams in the past decade with 7 appearancesxnodx

i wouldn't have gone there if you didn't, but you did. we could also say "if JMU didn't have a freak fumble at ASU, there never would have been a 3-peat at all". again, i only went there because you did the "if" thing. bottom line: total respect for the SoCon, excellent conference. but if we're rating who the best is, my opinion is that it's the CAA.

[GaSouthern]

i wouldn't have gone there if you didn't, but you did. we could also say "if JMU didn't have a freak fumble at ASU, there never would have been a 3-peat at all". again, i only went there because you did the "if" thing. bottom line: total respect for the SoCon, excellent conference. but if we're rating who the best is, my opinion is that it's the CAA.

Other than being in our conference... I have had that dream many many times over now. xnonono2x

[Saint3333]

If Jimmy Farris didn't catch that TD pass at Montana ASU may have won the 2000 national title. It happens every year.

[Reign of Terrier]

Furman was bounced in the first round in 2002 by CAA member Villanova.

no one is saying the SoCon is a bad conference! we're just answering the thread question with our opinions... and as far as Championship appearances... when did that ever count for anything? in 2008, Montana didn't win anything more than JMU, who didn't win anything more than UNH. 2nd place means jack.

what i think you're missing is that you have only TWO different champs in that span, whereas we have four. SoCon folks love to claim App State, even though it's the Mountaineers that are kicking your tails in-conference year in and year out... 29-3 conference record since 2005. their 3 losses have only been by a total of 17 points. (which, by the way, is absolutely amazing) But App State does not equal SoCon dominance... it equals App State dominance. Utah does not equal a great Mountain West Conference... it's just Utah (not that the other schools aren't good, but Utah has put up 2 undefeated seasons and 2 BCS bowl wins since 2004). Montana/Big Sky, same deal. one team doing well does not make a conference look good, it makes that team look good.

and if you want to get down and dirty about it, the CAA was 4-0 when comparing the top 3 teams in 2008 (Villanova did not play any SoCon teams but did beat national champion Richmond):

CAA #3 Richmond over SoCon #3 Elon, 28-10
#1 JMU over #1 App State, 35-32
#3 Richmond over #1 App State, 33-13
#1 JMU over #2 Wofford, 38-35

that's a combined score of 134-90, or an average score of 33.5-22.5 per game. one more thing:



i wouldn't have gone there if you didn't, but you did. we could also say "if JMU didn't have a freak fumble at ASU, there never would have been a 3-peat at all". again, i only went there because you did the "if" thing. bottom line: total respect for the SoCon, excellent conference. but if we're rating who the best is, my opinion is that it's the CAA.
I was pretty sure Furman made it to the championship and lost under Bobby Johnson in the last 10 years...pardon me it was 2001

[The Moody1]

we could also say "if JMU didn't have a freak fumble at ASU, there never would have been a 3-peat at all".

There was nothing freaky about that fumble. The freaky part was your idiot coach trying to rub it in our face by scoring a TD when he should have gone ahead and tried the field goal instead of handing the ball off to a freshman. :D:D:D

[MSUBear42]

Ohio State has actually won a title, I'd say YSU is more like Ohio State. UNI is Wisconsin or Iowa like, they get to a few big bowl games but never win the big one

What are we? Northwestern? xoopsx I'd say we're more like Minnesota, since we like to lose to teams in a division lower than us!!

[Hoyadestroya85]

Don't forget Jersey.

Weren't like eight Jersey natives drafted in the first round of the draft this year? Pennsylvania is also a hot spot and Massachusetts produces some pretty decent players.

[T-Dog]

i wouldn't have gone there if you didn't, but you did. we could also say "if JMU didn't have a freak fumble at ASU, there never would have been a 3-peat at all". again, i only went there because you did the "if" thing. bottom line: total respect for the SoCon, excellent conference. but if we're rating who the best is, my opinion is that it's the CAA.

We would have blocked the FG anyway. xrolleyesx

[JohnStOnge]

Weren't like eight Jersey natives drafted in the first round of the draft this year? Pennsylvania is also a hot spot and Massachusetts produces some pretty decent players.

Some of the states in the CAA footprint are pretty productive. You can look at the list of the top 15 most productive states at http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=259347 . It's a little old 2004 but I think that if you follow such things the basic picture doesn't change much. Pennsylvania, Virginia, and New Jersey were all in the top 15 but it's not like the situation with the SEC. Pennsylvania was #7, Virginia was #11, and New Jersey was #15. If you look at the SEC footprint Florida was #2, Georgia was #4, Louisiana #5, South Carolina #8, Mississippi #10, and Alabama #13. Plus SEC schools get a lot of players out of #2 Texas.

The SEC is clearly located in the most productive region in terms of football players in the country. The CAA is not.

[apaladin]

I don't think any FCS conference has the ego of the SEC. xoopsx

This is the truest statement in this thread.

FWIW, speaking of "IF"s". If FU doesn't fumble on the one yd line against JMU in '04 and if Ingle Martin doesn't slip on the ice at the ASU one yard line in '05 FU wins back to back NC's. "IF!"

[Skjellyfetti]

if Ingle Martin doesn't slip on the ice at the ASU one yard line in '05 FU wins back to back NC's. "IF!"

And if Jerome Felton could gain a yard on fourth down after Ingle Martin slipped on ice.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

no one is saying the SoCon is a bad conference! we're just answering the thread question with our opinions... and as far as Championship appearances... when did that ever count for anything? in 2008, Montana didn't win anything more than JMU, who didn't win anything more than UNH. 2nd place means jack. what i think you're missing is that you have only TWO different champs in that span, whereas we have four.

Take into account the relative sizes of the CAA and SoCon. It still favors the CAA, but not by much. Also take into account the fac that the CAA has more teams with name recognition, which whether we want to believe it or not, helps you get into the playoffs. Sorry, but Wofford should have been in the playoffs in 2002 after beating GSU, ASU, and getting 9 wins (and 8 DI wins). You could make a case for them to get into the playoffs in 2004 as well. When they did get into the playoffs in 2003 (the committee had to let them in because they won all of their SoCon games), they were the second best team in the playoffs.


SoCon folks love to claim App State, even though it's the Mountaineers that are kicking your tails in-conference year in and year out... 29-3 conference record since 2005.

And if the CAA had a dynasty team they would do the same with their conference record. The only CAA team of this decade that might compare is Delaware from 2003. In 2006 and 2007 App. was far and away better than all of the CAA teams in respective years between beating UMass (undefeated in CAA games) 28-17 and defeating JMU (1 CAA loss) 21-10. App. did have a close game with JMU in 2007 but they pretty much beat the brakes off of Richmond and Delaware, so I'd go out on a limb and say that was pretty much true that year as well.

Ditto with GSU in its championship years. In '99 we beat UMass (A10 cochamps CAA loss) 38-21. In 2000 we beat UD (A10 cochamps with one A10 loss) 27-18 in Newark. The tripe about the SoCon being a conference that is midgets among a few giants is overblown. The App. and GSU dynasty teams are just d*** good, period.


their 3 losses have only been by a total of 17 points.

So what...in the stretch between 2005-2008 JMU had 6 CAA losses by a total of 25 points. In if you only count 2006-2008 it's 3 losses by a total of 5 points. By the way, in 2008 JMU and ASU were both undefeated in conference and JMU had an average marigin of victory higher than ASU. And in 2007 the average marigin of victory in conference games (if you count losses) was 12 for JMU and 13.5 for App. in 2006 it was 22.43 for App. and 19.25 for JMU. You could just as easily argue that JMU has been just as dominant over the CAA as App. has been over the SoCon. Now what does that say when you consider that and the fact that (at least in 2006 and 2007) App. State was pretty solidly better than all of the teams in the CAA?


and if you want to get down and dirty about it, the CAA was 4-0 when comparing the top 3 teams in 2008 (Villanova did not play any SoCon teams but did beat national champion Richmond):

CAA #3 Richmond over SoCon #3 Elon, 28-10
#1 JMU over #1 App State, 35-32
#3 Richmond over #1 App State, 33-13
#1 JMU over #2 Wofford, 38-35

that's a combined score of 134-90, or an average score of 33.5-22.5 per game. one more thing:

Yeah, in the head-to-head you've got the advantage the way the matchups went down. But based on these games, I still find nothing to convince me to not believe that (1) last year Wofford and ASU (when Edwards is able to run and they aren't playing their third-string RB) were just as good as Richmond, JMU, and Villanova were and that (2) Maine and UNH were no better than Elon, Samford, and Furman. I think you could make the argument that in 2007 GSU, The Citadel, and Elon were all as good as the last 3 CAA teams in the playoffs, also.

[JohnStOnge]

It occured to me that one thing the CAA footprint states don't have is a large number of "mid major" FBS teams. One thing I know happens in the Southland area is that FBS programs I wouldn't even really call "mid major,"...I'd call them "minor"...compete with FCS programs for players. I think that almost all of the players at Sun Belt Conference schools would be playing for FCS programs if the Sun Belt football league didn't give them the option of being able to say they're "FBS" players. I think there are a lot of players at some of the CUSA schools that are like that too. I don't think potential FCS recruits have as many options in the CAA footprint as they do down in the Southeast and Texas.

I think the same kind of situation exists for the Missouri Valley with the existence of the MAC and also Marshall of CUSA.

[apaladin]

And if Jerome Felton could gain a yard on fourth down after Ingle Martin slipped on ice.

You are correct, one of those WTF kinda calls from the coaching staff.

[FargoBison]

What are we? Northwestern? xoopsx I'd say we're more like Minnesota, since we like to lose to teams in a division lower than us!!

MSU could be Minnesota, just slide WIU over to Michigan State.

[clinchBoy]

Its gotta be The Big South baby!!

[phoenixphanatic21]

If we are Big XII, can we be Texas Tech? I always thought we were kinda like them.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Its gotta be The Big South baby!!

I think of the Big South as the MAC in that they don't really beat elite teams but will have a ranked team sometimes and put players in the NFL.

[GannonFan]

It occured to me that one thing the CAA footprint states don't have is a large number of "mid major" FBS teams. One thing I know happens in the Southland area is that FBS programs I wouldn't even really call "mid major,"...I'd call them "minor"...compete with FCS programs for players. I think that almost all of the players at Sun Belt Conference schools would be playing for FCS programs if the Sun Belt football league didn't give them the option of being able to say they're "FBS" players. I think there are a lot of players at some of the CUSA schools that are like that too. I don't think potential FCS recruits have as many options in the CAA footprint as they do down in the Southeast and Texas.

I think the same kind of situation exists for the Missouri Valley with the existence of the MAC and also Marshall of CUSA.

The CAA competes quite regularly with the MAC for players. Obviously the Temple and Buffalo footprints overlap, and it's not like Ohio is so far away that players can't go there. Bill Cubit, head coach at Western Michigan, is a former Rutgers and Delaware guy and plenty of players from the CAA area find their way there. With the MAC's TV exposure, it's certainly competition.

And the CAA still has to compete with something the Southland doesn't - other FCS conferences in the same footprint. There's the Ivy, the Patriot, the NEC, the MEAC, and the SoCon that all recruit against each other in the same area (throw in Youngstown, just a stones throw away from the state line with PA, from the MVC as well). The Southland has the SWAC.

[GATA]

This is very easy guys...

The SOCON is like the OLD version of the Big East. The version that had Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College. It was a conference where the top 3-4 teams were pretty good, with one pretty dominant team (Miami/App State).

The CAA is like the NEW SEC. It's got a ton of teams and they're all really competitive...even the teams that are supposed to be cellar dwellars can put up a really good fight. You've also go about 4...maybe 5 teams in the CAA that could possibly win a national title every year. While the conference doesn't ALWAYS win a title, they certainly have a ton of good teams.

[WestCoastAggie]

CAA=SEC
So. Con=New ACC
Southland=Big 12 North/Mountain West/WAC
MVC=Big 10
OVC=MAC
Big Sky=Pac 10
SWAC=Sun Belt
Meac=Old ACC/New Big East