What The Patriot League Needs To Do

[DFW HOYA]

For the next three years, the PL fan base can debate about what individual schools should or should not do. But the league itself needs to consider these five issues very carefully:

1. Know the possible outcomes before the vote. The PL needs to know not only how each school would vote, but the various contingencies a vote would entail: what is the impact of each vote to each member institution. We can assume what Fordham will do with a "no" vote, but the PL needs to know it. Similarly, what does Georgetown or Holy Cross do with a "yes" or "no" vote?, if anything? What might Bucknell or Colgate do? Does Lehigh and Lafayette come as a coupled entry? The league can't leave the future to a wait and see approach.

2. What is the cost of a decision? If one vote loses one school but another vote loses three, the PL needs to understand the effect of how the bylaw is written and what schools may do as a result. (A big difference, for example, between allowing a school to have up to 60 schoalrships versus requiring the school to meet that standard.)

3. Define an "associate membership". Fordham's end-around has called into question what it means to be an associate member--Fordham can largely do what it wants and still be called a Patriot League school. Absent any new members (and the league should not expect any line forming from CAA schools), the league needs to better define what an associate member is and is not expected to do.

4. The Holy Cross factor. HC is the only PL school that has publicly come out against scholarships and that's not likely to change. As a founding member and the school that set the "last amateurs" philosophy in motion, is the league as a whole prepared to work with HC, or let them walk if they do not go along?

5. Don't forget the other three. Decisions on football could effect the league automatic qualifier in other sports if the outcome drops the PL below six schools. The effects on American, Army, and Navy need to be part of the broader discussion as well.

[Wildcat80]

Why is Holy Cross so opposed to schollies? They have a great tradition and a big stadium--one of the biggest in the PL-yes? As an outsider knowing their history I would have bet they would be in favor--if for no other reason than to play Boston College again!!

[RichH2]

Hc has expanded schollies just recently to hockey. I would not count them out as to football given that they came from a very successful schollie program. Gilmore wants them,as do all the coaches in the PL, I think he will be gone if HC nixes merit aid.

As for the rest I would hope that each of the schools are assessing these issues now. As was posted earlier, the PL cannot wait until 2010 to decide.The decisions have to be made before the end of this yr so that there is adequate time to implement them.If they waituntil June of 2010 you can bet the PL is not following Fordham

[colorless raider]

Hc has expanded schollies just recently to hockey. I would not count them out as to football given that they came from a very successful schollie program. Gilmore wants them,as do all the coaches in the PL, I think he will be gone if HC nixes merit aid.

As for the rest I would hope that each of the schools are assessing these issues now. As was posted earlier, the PL cannot wait until 2010 to decide.The decisions have to be made before the end of this yr so that there is adequate time to implement them.If they waituntil June of 2010 you can bet the PL is not following Fordham

Holy Cross accounts for Title 9 differently thn other schools and it will be far more costly for them to adopt football scholarships.

[Franks Tanks]

"5. Don't forget the other three. Decisions on football could effect the league automatic qualifier in other sports if the outcome drops the PL below six schools. The effects on American, Army, and Navy need to be part of the broader discussion as well."

Why would the AQ for football have any affect on the AQ for other sports?

Is there some weird NCAA rule out there I am not aware of?

[breezy]

Holy Cross accounts for Title 9 differently thn other schools and it will be far more costly for them to adopt football scholarships.

Colorless --

Can you clarify or explain how and why HC addresses Title IX differently?

Thanks.

[RichH2]

Raider,

I do not havethe best handleon TitleIXbut how does HC handle it differently. Numbers are numbers

[Husky Alum]

Raider,

I do not havethe best handleon TitleIXbut how does HC handle it differently. Numbers are numbers

I'm not a lawyer, but there are a bunch of tests you can use to measure "compliance" with Title IX, I believe.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm not a lawyer, but there are a bunch of tests you can use to measure "compliance" with Title IX, I believe.

It also has to do with the way each school chooses to account for its money and how its catagorized

Lafayette poster 'carney' had some insight on it in some of the older PL-Fordham threads, or at least plausible suggestions as to how that could work

[UNHWILDCATS05]

I'm not a lawyer, but there are a bunch of tests you can use to measure "compliance" with Title IX, I believe.

Correct. There are three "Tests" or prongs for Title IX. It is an OR test, meaning as long as you meet one you are ok.

Prong one - Providing athletic opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment.

- this is the easiest test to determine. If the ratios are 60% female and 40% male, then that is how the athletics at the school must be split up. It is a total numbers game, which is why almost all schools use this method. This is unfortunate because as you can see below, the other tests leave more "wiggle" room to more accurately fit the needs and desires of a school.

Prong two - Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex
-This prong has never been tested in court and as such, schools do not use it as it is not clearly defined.

Prong three - Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.
-Theoretically, a school can show that as long as they are meeting the needs of the underrepresented (i.e. female) student body, then the number split up is irrelevant. For example, if a number of girls want to start a team - as long as there is adequate competition for that team, the school would need to provide the girls with the means to compete. However, if there is no need/want at all for a womans sport, then the school does not need to provide it and it doesn't matter if their ratios are off. Again, theoretically, a school can show interest in the student body through surveys; however, it is not exactly clear what type of survey would be acceptable. This is why a lot of schools do not use this method because even though it would allow them more freedom, it would likely open them up to litigation. It is too bad more schools do not test this method.

[RichH2]

Back to my quandry, given these tests which apply to all, How does HC handle it differently than others in the PL?

[bison137]

"5. Don't forget the other three. Decisions on football could effect the league automatic qualifier in other sports if the outcome drops the PL below six schools. The effects on American, Army, and Navy need to be part of the broader discussion as well."

Why would the AQ for football have any affect on the AQ for other sports?

Is there some weird NCAA rule out there I am not aware of?



In most scenarios, there would be no effect on the other sports.

[DFW HOYA]

In most scenarios, there would be no effect on the other sports.

Correct, but if for example Colgate, Lehigh, and Lafayette all left over scholarships, the PL would fall below the number of schools to maintain an AQ in other sports. Unlikely, of course, but it underscores the need for this to be more than a football decision.