Improving the playoffs (24 teams?)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I posted on my blog some of my thoughts concerning improving the playoffs. What do you think?

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/

Included in this is a 24-team playoff structure and how it could work.

[Hansel]

Like your playoff predictions must be that "east coast bias" :p

"UNH 50, UNI 35"
"Tex St 38, CP 14"
" App 49, SIU 7"

[AppGuy04]

16 is fine

[Stang Fever]

Im all about expanding the playoffs...but to 24 would be way to many..you would have to start the season at least two weeks earlier...NO bye weeks


18 is a better number and 20 would give more teams a better shot...But with 20 that means some 7-4 maybe even 6-5 team would get in cause face it...the Pionner Leage Ivy and Swac are not going to ever play in the playoffs

[McTailGator]

I posted on my blog some of my thoughts concerning improving the playoffs. What do you think?

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/

Included in this is a 24-team playoff structure and how it could work.

No to 24 teams,

Keep it at 16 and hard to acheive.


Work to increase the financial reward for the 16 teams that get in instead.

[FlyYtown]

With exception of 1-2 teams such as YSU; I see there is always a few teams left out very deserving; not 8 teams..

[*****]

I posted on my blog some of my thoughts concerning improving the playoffs. What do you think?

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/

Included in this is a 24-team playoff structure and how it could work.No to one of three full equivalency teams in the playoffs. 16 is sweet.

[FlyBoy8]

There is no reason for expansion. None.

[89Hen]

18 is a better number and 20 would give more teams a better shot...
:confused: Two or four first round play-in games? No thanks. :(

[Tod]

Im all about expanding the playoffs...but to 24 would be way to many..you would have to start the season at least two weeks earlier...NO bye weeks


18 is a better number and 20 would give more teams a better shot...But with 20 that means some 7-4 maybe even 6-5 team would get in cause face it...the Pionner Leage Ivy and Swac are not going to ever play in the playoffs


Stang, I think you've been drinking. :beerchug: :beerchug: xprost2x xprost2x xprost2x xprost2x xprost2x

:D :D :D

[windwalker]

Ok keep it at 16... but then get rid of ALL auto bids... make it the BEST 16 teams....

[Tod]

Ok keep it at 16... but then get rid of ALL auto bids... make it the BEST 16 teams....

Two things. First, the eight autobids are usually included in that 16 anyway (but not always). Second, autobids give larger, established conferences incentive to play hard. It's nice to win your conference, but it's much nicer to be able to go on and keep playing. It simply makes for better football. Just my :twocents:

[blur2005]

If the SWAC and Ivy joined, I'd consider 24 teams, but really 16 is the best. I think generally only 8-3 teams or better should be considered for the playoffs.

[Tod]

If the SWAC and Ivy joined, I'd consider 24 teams, but really 16 is the best. I think generally only 8-3 teams or better should be considered for the playoffs.

I agree but I'll go even further. If the mid-majors had a real shot, I'd go for 24 teams. But as it is, probably 25% of the teams that have any real chance (or participate) in the playoffs already make it. I see no reason to cheapen it.

[rokamortis]

Two things. First, the eight autobids are usually included in that 16 anyway (but not always). Second, autobids give larger, established conferences incentive to play hard. It's nice to win your conference, but it's much nicer to be able to go on and keep playing. It simply makes for better football. Just my :twocents:

I'm all for expansion but if that isn't an option then we should kill the autos. If competing against 5-11 other teams makes a team work harder then think if they had to compete against all of the eligible teams. Everyone would have the same opportunity from the beginning of the season and it would give weak conferences the incentive to get stronger. If we don't want a cheapened playoff - then we need the best 16 teams.

[TigerFan17]

Like your playoff predictions must be that "east coast bias" :p

"UNH 50, UNI 35"
"Tex St 38, CP 14"
" App 49, SIU 7"


When did Texas become part of the east coast? I think they consider themselves the "south". :D

[McTailGator]

Ok keep it at 16... but then get rid of ALL auto bids... make it the BEST 16 teams....

Then why have a conference race.

The at large bids just enhance the 8 teams already in place.

[I-AA Fan]

Nothing wrong with 24-teams. DIII does it very successfully with 1 extra week. You reward your conference winners & regional #1's with a bye-week. So, the 8 auto-bids will get a bye-week. It maintains regional integrity of the game, and offers new conferences (as well as the entire division) a chance to grow.

Also, the aspects of regional champions is somehting that should be strongly considered. After all, you are not a worthless team because you do not win it all. Anytime we have a chance to award our I-AA teams, we should do so. After all, the only reason people like bowls, is because there is a champion in every game. Another article on the subject of 24-teams:

http://petespoll.com/pocket/article5.htm

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One of the things I mentioned in my blog posting was the need to have a week off in between the regular season and the "playoff season". This is to help with some of the issues with injuries and extending the season.

I also mentioned that some conferences could elect to have a 10 game season with a bowl/at-large games at the end of year with playoff implications. The winner of these games would have 11 games played - no different than the "power conferences" that would also have 11 games.

Personally, I think a "Heritage Bowl" and a "Walter Camp" bowl between the SWAC/MEAC and Ivy/Patriot winners would be so popular that it is worth it. Folks are pooh-poohing this as useless, but ask any Ivy, SWAC, or MEAC person what they think of this and I think you would get a very different answer. The "Heritage Bowl" game alone could outdraw the championship game. Picture Grambling St./FAMU.

I understand that putting the SWAC and the Ivy in the I-AA playoffs would be an uphill battle. But these championships could be the way to do that.

I think the way the playoffs are now, 16 teams playing the week after their last regular-season game, is too hard on the student/athletes. If you put a week off in between, you would get better games and fewer injuries.

[rokamortis]

Then why have a conference race.

The at large bids just enhance the 8 teams already in place.

To have the best 16 teams in the playoffs.

[Tod]

To have the best 16 teams in the playoffs.

There are auto's and at-large's (or wildcards) in every sport and at all levels. It's just how it's done. You win your conference, division, whatever, you're in. Just the way sports are.

[mikebigg]

No to 24 teams,

Keep it at 16 and hard to acheive.


Work to increase the financial reward for the 16 teams that get in instead.

16 teams is a good number... The SWAC would probably want to participate but the BC obstacle and the Payout quidelines make it unfavorable.

[McTailGator]

One of the things I mentioned in my blog posting was the need to have a week off in between the regular season and the "playoff season". This is to help with some of the issues with injuries and extending the season.

I also mentioned that some conferences could elect to have a 10 game season with a bowl/at-large games at the end of year with playoff implications. The winner of these games would have 11 games played - no different than the "power conferences" that would also have 11 games.

Personally, I think a "Heritage Bowl" and a "Walter Camp" bowl between the SWAC/MEAC and Ivy/Patriot winners would be so popular that it is worth it. Folks are pooh-poohing this as useless, but ask any Ivy, SWAC, or MEAC person what they think of this and I think you would get a very different answer. The "Heritage Bowl" game alone could outdraw the championship game. Picture Grambling St./FAMU.

I understand that putting the SWAC and the Ivy in the I-AA playoffs would be an uphill battle. But these championships could be the way to do that.

I think the way the playoffs are now, 16 teams playing the week after their last regular-season game, is too hard on the student/athletes. If you put a week off in between, you would get better games and fewer injuries.


My problem with the idea is NOT the bye week. I like that idea, and it would incourage the SWAC teams to perhaps participate. I also like the idea of a break of sorts before the playoffs begins. Or to allow teams to maybe play their big rivalry game on Thanksgiving weekend if they so chose, which would also allow for more I-AA's to schedule more paydays from I-A's

My problem is with having more than 16 teams...

That would cheapen the meaning for the best 16 teams in I-AA IMO. Also, I think the NcAA needs to find a way to create a financial payday for the 16 teams that make it. 24 teams would make that more difficult to do.

[McTailGator]

To have the best 16 teams in the playoffs.


Then it would be too hard for some committe somewhere to chose who gets in.

It may turn into a who can fill their stadiums thing over who is best.

IMO, if you can't be the champion of your conference, you do not deserve to be a National Champion contender.

[Hansel]

There are auto's and at-large's (or wildcards) in every sport and at all levels. It's just how it's done. You win your conference, division, whatever, you're in. Just the way sports are.
no autobids for DII Football (or DIII)

[McTailGator]

16 teams is a good number... The SWAC would probably want to participate but the BC obstacle and the Payout quidelines make it unfavorable.


Like I said in another post.

I would like to move the 1st round back a week, which would allow the BC to be played.

Plus, with 12 game seasons on the horizon, it would give us more chances at paydays and or breaks prior to the 1st round.

[rokamortis]

My problem is with having more than 16 teams...

That would cheapen the meaning for the best 16 teams in I-AA IMO. Also, I think the NcAA needs to find a way to create a financial payday for the 16 teams that make it. 24 teams would make that more difficult to do.


IMO, if you can't be the champion of your conference, you do not deserve to be a National Champion contender.

You are contradicting yourself a little. The 16 best teams in the nation aren't necessarily the ones who won their conferences and 8 others. Just because you win your conference doesn't automatically mean you are the 'best' team from the conference let alone one of the 16 best in the country. Some conferences may not even be strong enough to 'deserve' representation.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think this would be a good idea. This isn't like the NFL where on a given year only three or four teams have a reasonable shot at winning the Superbowl. Teams always manage to sneak into the national championship and win it (i.e. 1998, 2002, 2004). It would make the playoffs more exciting.

[Nightwish1094]

I like the idea of expanding. Although the I-AA playoffs the way they are now is one of the most exciting events to follow. I am also very biased in that I am all for doing anything that helps the NEC and my school (Sacred Heart) get at least a chance to take part in it.

[I-AA Fan]

no autobids for DII Football (or DIII)

That is not true.

DIII has 32-teams now. They divide the pool into 3 groups. They have 21 conferences, that receive an automatic berth ...these are the A group. The B group are those that belong to conferences that do not receive an automatic bid (if they qualify). The C group are all at-large selections from the conferences that do recieve auto bids. On average, there are about 4 or 5 B teams & 5 or 6 C teams.

In addition, they rate B & C participants based on performance against other clubs. The call it a "quality of win index" The more games your opposition wins, the more points you receive. So, it is more difficult to "pad your schedule" and still make the play-off.


In DII:

They have 24 teams in the post-season. The entire selection is regionalized, which I think is a terrific way to do it. At-large teams fill out the difference for non-conference winners. There are 4 regions, 6 teams in each will go. If a region has 3 conferences, there will be 3 additional at-large teams selected (from only that region) to participate. There is a first round bye for the top-2 (seeded) teams in each region.

[rokamortis]

That is not true.

DIII does have autobids but DII does not - they call it 'earned access' which is a cool term.

I'd love to see the playoffs expand as it would just be better imho and the regionalization is a pretty cool idea. I guess it could be negative assuming one region is far stronger than the others, but you have to be equitable somehow.

[Retro]

Just because you win your conference doesn't automatically mean you are the 'best' team from the conference let alone one of the 16 best in the country

Do you even know what your saying? :doh: If you win your conference, then your the best of that conference, plain an simple!

Your right in that it doesn't mean your necessarily one of best 16 teams in country, but it in fact usually does, because rarily does someone win their conference and not beat quality teams elsewhere among those who already receive auto-bids.

The system is fine the way it is now.. If other conferences like the Big South expand or the SWAC decide to participate either by moving their post season games or the I-AA playoffs move back a week, then additional auto-bids should be considered for those conferences as well.. In time an autobid for the great west will likely be considered with enough teams, but 16 is the right number for the foreseeable future...

[matfu]

no need to change it. 24 teams would put way too many (percentage wise of eligible teams) in the playoffs. it won't chande unless the number of teams in 1aa changes.

[Bison_Kent]

DIII does have autobids but DII does not - they call it 'earned access' which is a cool term.

I'd love to see the playoffs expand as it would just be better imho and the regionalization is a pretty cool idea. I guess it could be negative assuming one region is far stronger than the others, but you have to be equitable somehow.

I personally hate regionalization. If the two best teams are from the same region or even conference, they should play for the national championship. I like the old I-AA system where all 16 teams are seeded with 1 playing 16, 2 playing 15, and so on.

I know the costs would likely be greater for this type of scenario but it also makes for matchups that we would otherwise not see nationwide.

As far as playoff expansion goes, right now I don't think it needs to happen. However, if the Ivy, SWAC, the possible new NEC scholarship leage, and Great West conference winners eventually get autobids, more spots will be needed and 24 probably would be the number necassary. Until more leagues get the autobid qualifications or decide to fully participate in the tournament, I don't think we need any more spots.

[rokamortis]

Do you even know what your saying? :doh: If you win your conference, then your the best of that conference, plain an simple!

:bang:

Maybe I should have said - received the conference autobid. The autobid generally means the winner of the conference but due to ties and such I guess I should choose my language better.

This season here are a couple examples for you. Was Eastern Washington a better overall team than Montana or Montana State better than Montana since they all tied? Was Nicholls State a better overall than Texas State? Or how about Colgate, were they truly better than Lehigh or Lafayette? There are teams that don't get the autobid that are stronger than the teams that do - that's my point.

[Hansel]

DIII does have autobids but DII does not - they call it 'earned access' which is a cool term.

I'd love to see the playoffs expand as it would just be better imho and the regionalization is a pretty cool idea. I guess it could be negative assuming one region is far stronger than the others, but you have to be equitable somehow.
Wasn't sure about DIII :o

Nebraska-Omaha, DII NCC conference champ last year sat home during the playoffs

earned access is not a bad idea in lieu of an "autobid" it guarantees one team from a league makes it, but not necessarily the "conference champ"

[rokamortis]

I personally hate regionalization. If the two best teams are from the same region or even conference, they should play for the national championship. I like the old I-AA system where all 16 teams are seeded with 1 playing 16, 2 playing 15, and so on.

Well - I guess it is all about balance. No perfect solution. I like regionalization as a fan as it would promote more fans being able to travel to see their team play. I do agree that the best teams should face each other in the championship - so it is a balanace and maybe they can come up with a decent solution.

[Hansel]

Do you even know what your saying? :doh: If you win your conference, then your the best of that conference, plain an simple!

Your right in that it doesn't mean your necessarily one of best 16 teams in country, but it in fact usually does, because rarily does someone win their conference and not beat quality teams elsewhere among those who already receive auto-bids.

The system is fine the way it is now.. If other conferences like the Big South expand or the SWAC decide to participate either by moving their post season games or the I-AA playoffs move back a week, then additional auto-bids should be considered for those conferences as well.. In time an autobid for the great west will likely be considered with enough teams, but 16 is the right number for the foreseeable future...
Is Florida St the best team in the ACC?

[McTailGator]

You are contradicting yourself a little. The 16 best teams in the nation aren't necessarily the ones who won their conferences and 8 others. Just because you win your conference doesn't automatically mean you are the 'best' team from the conference let alone one of the 16 best in the country. Some conferences may not even be strong enough to 'deserve' representation.


Just a little.

But I will default back to my original statement.

There must be some reward for winning your conference. Or else why play conference games. Why be a member of a conference at all?


McNeese could drop out of the Southland, play 5 or 6 SWAC teams, a couple of Ohio Valley teams, Dayton, and another couple of non scholarship programs and finish 11-0 every year.

The committee would have to pick them for an auto bid every year.

Right now the committe only has to choose the NEXT best 8 teams after the Auto bids. And generally there are 1 or 2 teams pissed because they didn't get in.

How many would be pissed if they had to choose from 16 or even 24 teams to fill slots.

Confernce play is important.

[rokamortis]

Just a little.

But I will default back to my original statement.

There must be some reward for winning your conference. Or else why play conference games. Why be a member of a conference at all?

Confernce play is important.

No doubt that conference play is important. If you drop the autos it won't change that as being in a tough conference would allow more bids. The weaker conferences would be the ones that would need to improve. I think schedule strength would be the most important statistic. You could play a weak schedule and go 11-0, but I would think that if your team would do that then many others would try to do the same thing so the committee would need to ensure that people don't do that. Not Foolproof but the only way to ensure the best teams.

As far as your question of why to play in a conference:
Ease of scheduling
For all other sports
Similar institutions
Don't want to be an independent

[McTailGator]

I personally hate regionalization. If the two best teams are from the same region or even conference, they should play for the national championship. I like the old I-AA system where all 16 teams are seeded with 1 playing 16, 2 playing 15, and so on.

I know the costs would likely be greater for this type of scenario but it also makes for matchups that we would otherwise not see nationwide.

As far as playoff expansion goes, right now I don't think it needs to happen. However, if the Ivy, SWAC, the possible new NEC scholarship leage, and Great West conference winners eventually get autobids, more spots will be needed and 24 probably would be the number necassary. Until more leagues get the autobid qualifications or decide to fully participate in the tournament, I don't think we need any more spots.

I also like the old format where No. 16 was sent to No. 1 and so on...



But look at what is being argued on this board...

Is it not better than arguing about who should be No. 1, 2, 3, or 4 and be sent to what ever Bowl the BCS Gods want you to go to?

At least the I-AA champion earned it by playing their way to the Big game. The BCS Champ was really SELECTED to be there.

EARNED, NOT SELECTED!

[Retro]

Was Nicholls State a better overall than Texas State?

Yes, because they beat them head to head.. Nicholls had a tough season logistially and may have affected them in a couple of losses, so you have to look at that.. Also consider that Nicholls only lost to Furman by 2 points, so you can't presume that Texas State is a much better team overall than nicholls by their overall record because texas state beat 2 div II teams..

[Retro]

Is Florida St the best team in the ACC?

Yes, they were.. They won the conference title didn't they? Sure they lost some games in conference during the season, but when it counted they beat what everyone felt were the 2 best teams in the conference Miami and Virginia Tech. You all are confusing the best team in a conference with best team overall in the country among other conference winners.. 2 different animals in this case.. Clearly Florida state is a step or 2 below the top 10 teams OVERALL, but in the ACC they are best team at least on the field. :read:

[ngineer]

One of the things I mentioned in my blog posting was the need to have a week off in between the regular season and the "playoff season". This is to help with some of the issues with injuries and extending the season.

I also mentioned that some conferences could elect to have a 10 game season with a bowl/at-large games at the end of year with playoff implications. The winner of these games would have 11 games played - no different than the "power conferences" that would also have 11 games.

Personally, I think a "Heritage Bowl" and a "Walter Camp" bowl between the SWAC/MEAC and Ivy/Patriot winners would be so popular that it is worth it. Folks are pooh-poohing this as useless, but ask any Ivy, SWAC, or MEAC person what they think of this and I think you would get a very different answer. The "Heritage Bowl" game alone could outdraw the championship game. Picture Grambling St./FAMU.

I understand that putting the SWAC and the Ivy in the I-AA playoffs would be an uphill battle. But these championships could be the way to do that.

I think the way the playoffs are now, 16 teams playing the week after their last regular-season game, is too hard on the student/athletes. If you put a week off in between, you would get better games and fewer injuries.

That idea has been batted around for 15 years, but nothing comes of it..is there any real traction there or not?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally, I think a "Heritage Bowl" and a "Walter Camp" bowl between the SWAC/MEAC and Ivy/Patriot winners would be so popular that it is worth it. Folks are pooh-poohing this as useless, but ask any Ivy, SWAC, or MEAC person what they think of this and I think you would get a very different answer.


That idea has been batted around for 15 years, but nothing comes of it..is there any real traction there or not?

Hard to tell, now. At one time there was (IMVHO) a fair amount of interest in this, mostly from the Patriot side, but as the Patriot League has edged away from the hard-line against athletic scholarships that the Ivies are now "espousing", it's hard to say if the Ivy has any interest. (The Ivy postseason ban, BTW, would include such a bowl.)

I think it would still generate a lot of interest with a large Ivy and Patriot contingent combined.