Surprise: Delaware Supreme Court Upholds Sports Betting

[bluehenbillk]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4212200

More of a case of no news, the NFL unsuccessfully argues against sports betting. More to come though, as Gov. Markell attempts to go further than the current parlay system & tries to allow straight betting.

[Seahawks Fan]

According to WFAN this means no FCS playoff games in Delaware.

[GannonFan]

According to WFAN this means no FCS playoff games in Delaware.

And if the NCAA pursues that I'm sure that will go to court as well, as the NCAA has allowed both Montana and Nevada to host NCAA championship events, albeit, as "administrative oversights". xrolleyesx

[Syntax Error]

And if the NCAA pursues that I'm sure that will go to court as well, as the NCAA has allowed both Montana and Nevada to host NCAA championship events, albeit, as "administrative oversights". xrolleyesxMontana is quite different and you know it. But, what the heck, you can at least gamble which to people of Delaware seems more important.

[93henfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4212200

More of a case of no news, the NFL unsuccessfully argues against sports betting. More to come though, as Gov. Markell attempts to go further than the current parlay system & tries to allow straight betting.

There'd be no point in allowing parlay betting only. It already failed in 1976. I think even Markell is smart enough to know that you go with single game betting or scrap the plan.

[93henfan]

Montana is quite different and you know it. But, what the heck, you can at least gamble which to people of Delaware seems more important.

Sure, everyone knows it's different, but like you said, it's still gambling and that's what the NCAA should be concerned with.

I am under the impression that Montana's system nets the state very little money. Do the Griz have enough pull to get Montana to do away with the betting in place there now if the NCAA plays hardball with the Hens and Griz like they say they will?

[GannonFan]

Montana is quite different and you know it. But, what the heck, you can at least gamble which to people of Delaware seems more important.

Explain how it's different? Money changes hands and it's based on the outcome of sports games. That's gambling. And show me where the NCAA has an approved list of sports gambling and an unapproved list of sports gambling. Even the NCAA has said that allowing games in Montana has been an oversight or one they didn't even know about. And your point ignores the whole fact that Nevada, the mecca of gambling in the US, has hosted NCAA events as recently as two months ago.

And again, all of this will be moot once New Jersey sues and overturns the federal ban on sports gambling and all 50 states are allowed to implement it, should they choose to. The NCAA is just fighting the tide in this one, whether you believe gambling is right or not.

[Syntax Error]

Already explained Montana's difference with Delaware, look it up. You show where the NCAA called Montana an "oversight." Nevada was one single event, not multiple. That was called an "oversight." I know you Delawareans loves your gambling but the NCAA has a strong case.

[93henfan]

Already explained Montana's difference with Delaware, look it up. You show where the NCAA called Montana an "oversight." Nevada was one single event, not multiple. That was called an "oversight." I know you Delawareans loves your gambling but the NCAA has a strong case.

They may have a strong case, and if they do the matter will be heard in court. At any rate, though, Montana and Delaware both will fall into the same boat. They'll either both be allowed to keep playoff games in-state or not, depending on the ruling. You seem to be implying that it will be OK for Montana to host, being a gambling state, while Delaware would not, and that's obviously inconsistent.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Go Gambling! With some luck, Delaware's heading to Lehigh for a first-round playoff game! xlolx

Incidentally GF, where did you get the idea that all 50 states are going to get sports gambling soon? xconfusedx There's no indication that the national mood would support sports gambling, never mind the legal hurdles and the will of the Supreme Court to overturn the ban. Delaware seems to be gung-ho about sports gambling and all the positive and negative ramifications that entails (more money, possible crime & soceital problems as well as the NCAA postseason ban for UD and DSU), but it's hardly a case of "so goes Delaware, so goes Alito, Scalia and Ginsberg and the American public".

[Ivytalk]

No surprise about the SCOD ruling. The justices read the newspapers (and the Internet) too.:p

[Dukie95]

I don't understand how any lawsuit against the NCAA would hold any water. If the NCAA doesn't want to have their events in Delaware (or any other state), that's their prerogative.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

How did the NCAA get to be run by a bunch of PC punks? xnonono2x

[GannonFan]

Already explained Montana's difference with Delaware, look it up. You show where the NCAA called Montana an "oversight." Nevada was one single event, not multiple. That was called an "oversight." I know you Delawareans loves your gambling but the NCAA has a strong case.

Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4162225 In the video clip, with the quote from the Director of Gaming of the NCAA "... on Montana having postseason events as "that was an administrative oversight and it won't be repeated".

That seems pretty clear to me, no? And Nevada was not just one single event, it's been multiple NCAA championships in that state over the years.

I'm not a Delawarean (live in PA) so I've got no stake in the state gambling, so no sense trying to tag me as a gambling advocate - I've said multiple times on here how I oppose gambling on principle.

But that doesn't mean that the NCAA has and continues to have championships in both Nevada and Montana, despite the presence of sports gambling (by the NCAA's definition, not the dreamt up version of a message board). If they try to block Delaware on those grounds, they won't be able to do so successfully without also blocking Nevada, Montana, and other state that eventually follows suit.

[YoUDeeMan]

Montana is quite different and you know it. But, what the heck, you can at least gamble which to people of Delaware seems more important.

Hey, Righteous One, do you live in a state that allows people to squander their money on a lottery? xeyebrowx

Better pack your bags and move to higher ground. xlolxxlolx

[GannonFan]

Go Gambling! With some luck, Delaware's heading to Lehigh for a first-round playoff game! xlolx

Incidentally GF, where did you get the idea that all 50 states are going to get sports gambling soon? xconfusedx There's no indication that the national mood would support sports gambling, never mind the legal hurdles and the will of the Supreme Court to overturn the ban. Delaware seems to be gung-ho about sports gambling and all the positive and negative ramifications that entails (more money, possible crime & soceital problems as well as the NCAA postseason ban for UD and DSU), but it's hardly a case of "so goes Delaware, so goes Alito, Scalia and Ginsberg and the American public".

Certainly all 50 states won't have it, but New Jersey is already moving ahead with a federal lawsuit to overturn the 1990's era law that banned sports gambling outside of the 4 states that were grandfathered. With the money that is being bantered about, it's going to put a lot of political pressure on many states, certainly not all, to enact some version, and if New Jersey is eventually successful, they'll have that chance.

Phil Sheridan had a nice writeup on the subject:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/phil_sheridan/20090519_Phil_Sheridan__Hypocrisy_on_Delaware_spor ts_betting.html

[bluehenbillk]

Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4162225 In the video clip, with the quote from the Director of Gaming of the NCAA "... on Montana having postseason events as "that was an administrative oversight and it won't be repeated".



Thanks for saving me the time to look at the link GF. Man he served that argument up on a platter....

[Syntax Error]

How did the NCAA get to be run by a bunch of PC punks? xnonono2x
The NCAA is run by the member schools.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

As has been stated before, there is no way the NCAA was oblivious to the fact that Montana and especially Nevada allowed sports gambling. According to what I have seen, sports gambling in Montana has something to do with NFL fantasy football, and however it is run it is not too popular at this point. Also, if this in fact were a big issue at this point I think it would have created more local buzz. Aside from Egriz, which usually doesn't have the best info, I have not seen or heard much on the issue. Based on the economic impact of home games in Missoula, business owners would be up in arms if the community were to possibly lose 3 weekends of business that bring in hundreds of thousands, if not a million dollars in sales. At this point if it were as serious an issue as people think, there would be much more local coverage.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

If Green26 research is accurate, here is the law related to sports betting in Montana as it is currently on the books.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1342487&postcount=46

[Syntax Error]

Here: In the video clip...
And Nevada was not just one single event, it's been multiple NCAA championships in that state over the years.

no sense trying to tag me as a gambling advocate

But that doesn't mean that the NCAA has and continues to have championships in both Nevada and Montana...
1. Can't view the video clip so that explains why I haven't seen that term used for Montana.
2. What other years has Nevada been in violation of the NCAA rules? AFAIK it was a single event.
3. I said Delawareans, not you personally and I never said gambling advocate.
4. What does "continues to have championships" mean? Is that crystal balling?

I seriously do not think that the NCAA is going to back down on this.

[4th and What?]

Here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4162225 In the video clip, with the quote from the Director of Gaming of the NCAA "... on Montana having postseason events as "that was an administrative oversight and it won't be repeated".


The quote from the NCAA lady stating that the Nevada Bowl is ok because bowl games are applied under a different set of rules.....

So it's ok to undermine the integrity of NCAA football as long as the price tag is big enough? Meh....

[Syntax Error]

The quote from the NCAA lady stating that the Nevada Bowl is ok because bowl games are applied under a different set of rules.....
So it's ok to undermine the integrity of NCAA football as long as the price tag is big enough? Meh....Bowel games are not NCAA events.

[4th and What?]

1. Can't view the video clip so that explains why I haven't seen that term used for Montana.

NCAA Director of Gambling - "Montana was an administrative oversight and we have been up front about that. Bowl games are administered under a different set of administrative policies. Did we make a mistake? Yeah. Does that mean we are going to continue to make mistakes? No."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

... bowl games... undermine the integrity of NCAA football....

Put your quote in proper context. xlolx

[Syntax Error]

Montana Statute:

23-5-806. Sports betting prohibited -- applicability. Sections 23-5-801, 23-5-802, and 23-5-805 do not:

(1) authorize betting or wagering on the outcome of an individual sports event; or

(2) apply to gambling activities governed under Title 23, chapter 4, except for parimutuel facilities, parimutuel networks, or simulcast parimutuel networks conducting fantasy sports leagues, or under Title 23, chapter 5, part 2 or 5.

[GannonFan]

1. Can't view the video clip so that explains why I haven't seen that term used for Montana.
2. What other years has Nevada been in violation of the NCAA rules? AFAIK it was a single event.
3. I said Delawareans, not you personally and I never said gambling advocate.
4. What does "continues to have championships" mean? Is that crystal balling?

I seriously do not think that the NCAA is going to back down on this.

Nevada hosted NCAA-sanctioned skiing regionals in '04, '06, and again this year, '09.

Plus the state of Montana has hosted, other than football championship events (every year since '04?) the NCAA skiing championships in '05 and the regionals in '08.

Starting to look like the "administrative oversight" is pretty much a blind eye.

And in my defense, you said "you Delawareans" when replying directly to my post. If you don't want to mean me personally, saying "you Delawareans" in a reply to me was probably not the clearest way to not do so. xpeacex

[GannonFan]

NCAA Director of Gambling - "Montana was an administrative oversight and we have been up front about that. ... Did we make a mistake? Yeah. Does that mean we are going to continue to make mistakes? No."


Montana Statute:

23-5-806. Sports betting prohibited -- applicability. Sections 23-5-801, 23-5-802, and 23-5-805 do not:

(1) authorize betting or wagering on the outcome of an individual sports event; or

(2) apply to gambling activities governed under Title 23, chapter 4, except for parimutuel facilities, parimutuel networks, or simulcast parimutuel networks conducting fantasy sports leagues, or under Title 23, chapter 5, part 2 or 5.

Apparently the NCAA Director of Gambling feels the Montana statute applies. Like I said, I haven't seen anywhere where the NCAA says what sports gambling they approve of and what sports gambling they don't approve of - frankly, they've been pretty clear they are against all forms of sports gambling. But hey, if you have them on record saying that Montana gambling is fine, then let's see it as that would directly contradict their own Director of Gambling, in an actual video, saying that Montana gambling is not fine and that they will not repeat that mistake (allowing Montana to have NCAA championship events). xreadx

[93henfan]

The bottom line is that the NCAA will, when it's all said and done, have to either allow all of NV, MT, and DE to host NCAA postseason events or they'll have to ban all three states.

Like it or not, we're in this together now Griz fans. Let's hope the NCAA continues to allow states with sports betting to host NCAA postseason events via oversight.

[griz8791]

. . . Like it or not, we're in this together now Griz fans. . . .

I was hoping one of you would eventually say something like this.

[Syntax Error]

The bottom line is that the NCAA will, when it's all said and done, have to either allow all of NV, MT, and DE to host NCAA postseason events or they'll have to ban all three states.I don't think so. NV was a one-time mistake. Montana doesn't allow sports gambling. Delaware now does allow it. NV and DE are together, MT is in the clear (despite efforts from DE folk to drag them down with them) from what I have found out. xreadx

[bluehenbillk]

I don't think so. NV was a one-time mistake. Montana doesn't allow sports gambling. Delaware now does allow it. NV and DE are together, MT is in the clear (despite efforts from DE folk to drag them down with them) from what I have found out. xreadx


Only because you can't see the video from the mouth of the NCAA.

[YoUDeeMan]

Apparently the NCAA Director of Gambling feels the Montana statute applies. Like I said, I haven't seen anywhere where the NCAA says what sports gambling they approve of and what sports gambling they don't approve of - frankly, they've been pretty clear they are against all forms of sports gambling. But hey, if you have them on record saying that Montana gambling is fine, then let's see it as that would directly contradict their own Director of Gambling, in an actual video, saying that Montana gambling is not fine and that they will not repeat that mistake (allowing Montana to have NCAA championship events). xreadx


I don't think so. NV was a one-time mistake. Montana doesn't allow sports gambling. Delaware now does allow it. NV and DE are together, MT is in the clear (despite efforts from DE folk to drag them down with them) from what I have found out. xreadx

xlolxxlolxxlolx

Who knew the NCAA's Director of Gambling was from Delaware? xeyebrowxxlolx

So, apparently, from what SE has "found out" (although he did not provide a link), the NCAA's Director of Gambling has discovered yet another "oversight"...her own mouth. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Should be fun for the courts...xnodx

[Syntax Error]

apparently, from what SE has "found out" (although he did not provide a link)Amazing what a few phone calls can garner when you do investigative reporting. xnodx

I still don't think the NCAA will back down on this and no court can order them to hold their events in any particular place I think.

[Syntax Error]

Only because you can't see the video from the mouth of the NCAA.What some guy says does not overrule written policy. I think it has to do with when the policy was broadened to include all other sports. Nevertheless, no one wants playoff games out of DE. I'm sure a compromise will be hammered but a full fledge reversal by the NCAA is not likely IMO.

[GannonFan]

What some guy says does not overrule written policy. I think it has to do with when the policy was broadened to include all other sports. Nevertheless, no one wants playoff games out of DE. I'm sure a compromise will be hammered but a full fledge reversal by the NCAA is not likely IMO.


"Some guy"?? It's the NCAA Director of Gambling. And if the NCAA is that screwed up that their own director in charge of this policy doesn't even know the policy and publicly disavows it, then the NCAA will find it pretty difficult to mount a serious defense of said policy.

Of course there will be a compromise, just like the NCAA has compromised already with "administrative oversights". And if they can rationalize how sports gambling in Montana isn't sports gambling, then I look forward to their rationalization of how Delaware sports gambling doesn't cross the line either. xthumbsupx

[YoUDeeMan]

Amazing what a few phone calls can garner when you do investigative reporting. xnodx

I still don't think the NCAA will back down on this and no court can order them to hold their events in any particular place I think.

And it is amazing what can happen if some well placed Congressmen and lawyers decide to start putting pressure back on the NCAA. xnodx They are a non-profit only because Congress looks the other way.

[Syntax Error]

"Some guy"?? It's the NCAA Director of Gambling. And if the NCAA is that screwed up that their own director in charge of this policy doesn't even know the policy and publicly disavows it, then the NCAA will find it pretty difficult to mount a serious defense of said policy.

Of course there will be a compromise, just like the NCAA has compromised already with "administrative oversights". And if they can rationalize how sports gambling in Montana isn't sports gambling, then I look forward to their rationalization of how Delaware sports gambling doesn't cross the line either. xthumbsupxSome guy/Any guy. xrolleyesx BTW, he's not in charge of NCAA policy nor did he disavow it (that I know of). Not to mention he will have little to do with defending it in court.

Is Delaware gambling limited to fantasy football?

[GannonFan]

Some guy/Any guy. xrolleyesx BTW, he's not in charge of NCAA policy nor did he disavow it (that I know of). Not to mention he will have little to do with defending it in court.

Is Delaware gambling limited to fantasy football?

From the bold, only because you still won't/can't open the video link where the Director is on tape disavowing it. It's not like a tree falling in the woods and you're not there - it was said.

But I'm glad to know that you think the NCAA's Director of Gambling has nothing to do with the NCAA's position or policy on Gambling. The NCAA continues to just make perfect sense. xrolleyesx

[blukeys]

The NCAA needs to get back to the real important work of banning Mascots of Indian (Native American) tribes.

[Syntax Error]

From the bold, only because you still won't/can't open the video link where the Director is on tape disavowing it. It's not like a tree falling in the woods and you're not there - it was said.
But I'm glad to know that you think the NCAA's Director of Gambling has nothing to do with the NCAA's position or policy on Gambling. The NCAA continues to just make perfect sense. xrolleyesx
If you maintain that the NCAA Director of Gambling "publicly disavows" the NCAA policy then I call BS. No way the person can do that, nor does he have the authority from the NCAA to make a binding statement like that. The NCAA policy is a matter of the members vote. They decide, he runs the office based on the policy. It is really simple except for those that think the NCAA office is a rogue band that does things the membership doesn't want.

Yeah, ESPN video doesn't work on my computer, all herkyjerky. Not that I really care what ESPeoN runs anyway (I very rarely go there). Know anywhere else I can see it?

[henfan]

Any one wanna bet me that the NCAA ultimately backs down on an insistence to ban post-season games in DE?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...Nevertheless, no one wants playoff games out of DE...

Ahem!!! Speak for yourself! xlolx

[T-Dog]

Yeah, ESPN video doesn't work on my computer, all herkyjerky. Not that I really care what ESPeoN runs anyway (I very rarely go there). Know anywhere else I can see it?

So you don't care what ESPN runs, yet you want to see the video? xeyebrowx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iF6ThSnKv4

As for my views. I hope Delaware gives the middle finger to the NCAA and NFL. The NCAA are a bunch of hypocrites and liars. Trying to punishing the universities and the communities for something the state government does make very little sense.

[Syntax Error]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iF6ThSnKv4Thanks! Much better. Rachel... xoopsx

[YoUDeeMan]

Any one wanna bet me that the NCAA ultimately backs down on an insistence to ban post-season games in DE?

Nope, because the NCAA will lose this one. xnodx

[YoUDeeMan]

If you maintain that the NCAA Director of Gambling "publicly disavows" the NCAA policy then I call BS. No way the person can do that, nor does he have the authority from the NCAA to make a binding statement like that. The NCAA policy is a matter of the members vote. They decide, he runs the office based on the policy. It is really simple except for those that think the NCAA office is a rogue band that does things the membership doesn't want.

Yeah, ESPN video doesn't work on my computer, all herkyjerky. Not that I really care what ESPeoN runs anyway (I very rarely go there). Know anywhere else I can see it?

xeekx

All of those investigative phone calls and not one of your contacts indicated that the Director of Gambling, who made public statements contrary to what you are trying to state, was a woman? xeyebrow Good work, detective. xlolx

You continued to argue with GF and everyone without even bothering to research the facts that were presented. xnonox Why should anyone be surprised?

xwhistlex

[YoUDeeMan]

Some guy/Any guy. xrolleyesx BTW, he's not in charge of NCAA policy nor did he disavow it (that I know of). Not to mention he will have little to do with defending it in court.

Is Delaware gambling limited to fantasy football?

You bet those quotes, and administrative oversights - multiple - will be used in court. Absolutely. Anyone with any HR experience will let you know that a company can only make so many public statements and "administrative oversights" that contradict it's own policy. xrulesx

[bluehenbillk]

If you read the Sports Betting Law for Delaware you will not be able to even bet on college football & hoops games, so I'm kinda confused what moral authority the NCAA thinks it even has in this case. You can bet on professional sports in Delaware, so threaten to punish the college teams? Yep, that makes sense?

[griz8791]

The story that hit the wires here last night (http://www.abcmontana.com/news/local/46415472.html) said something about not allowing post-season play in any "metropolitan area" where sports betting is available. Elsewhere I read that even under Delaware's new statute it still would only be legal at 3 casinos. Are any of those three in Newark? If not, maybe you don't have a problem.

I can't get over how ironic it is that any "city" in Montana could be considered a "metropolitan area" but I am sure the NCAA will say Missoula qualifies. They probably won't stop there but will probably define the "metropolitan area" as not just the city limits but also the northern half of Ravalli County and southern half of Lake County.

I also wonder whether the NCAA insists on a full-time gambling ban or just not having it available during the particular post-season event in question. I don't know how much opposition there would be in Montana to eliminating the few forms of sports-related gambling we have, but whatever that opposition is, I think few would oppose a ban between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

[griz8791]

I put that article up on my Facebook page and one of my friends initially thought it was a hoax, like the Onion articles I am always posting there.

[Green26]

Some miscellaneous comments, facts and thoughts:

1. I don't think it's clear what the ncaa quote on Montana being an "administrative oversight" means. There's not enough information in the quote to know exactly what the spokesperson was saying. It could, however, mean what some of you are saying. It could also turn out to have either meant something else or have been a poor choice of words by a spokesperson caught offguard and under some pressure.

2. I don't believe the ncaa spokesperson was the ncaa director of gambling, or whatever some of you calling that position. I don't recall seeing anything from the director of gambling on this subject. If some of you know otherwise, let us know.

3. I don't think the ncaa has been very clear on what sports gambling they object to. Some of you have been trying to say that they oppose all sports gambling of any type, but I have not seen anything to support that assertion. I have not seen a written policy. If you have some specific, bring it to our attention.

4. Montana State hosted the ncaa skiing championships in 2008, not 2005.

5. Montana's permitted sports "gambling" is much different than Nevada and Delaware's, doesn't involve true sports betting, and doesn't involve much money.

6. I don't agree with those of you who say that Delaware and Montana will be treated the same. There is considerable room to distinquish between the two situations.

7. The ncaa policy against sports gambling was expanded to cover sports other than basketball in recent years, according to what I've read. Thus, this could explain some of their prior "oversight" with regard to championship events in other sports.

8. Montana's allowing of home or office (non-office people not allowed) betting pools, calcuttas for things like the ncaa tourney (with half of the proceeds going to charity), and, more recently, limited betting on fantasy football leagues, is pretty innocuous and small potatoes.

9. Montana's statute generally prohibiting sports betting would be helpful in litigation, and could be helpful in discussions with the ncaa. It could have give the ncaa a reason to distinquish between Montana and Nevada/Delaware.

10. The ncaa policy, as announced, prohibits championship events in metropolitan areas where sports betting is allowed. Based on the statute, I would argue that sports betting isn't allowed in Montana. I suppose one could argue that Missoula isn't a metropolitan area, but that argument might not be so strong. The county of Missoula could pass an ordinance banning sports betting in Missoula county. It would not have to be detailed, and who knows whether or how it could be enforced. Then, the ncaa would have a hard time arguing that sports betting is permitted in Missoula.

11. If it turned out that the ncaa's main objection was the newly started fantasy football lottery/betting, I suspect that Montana's legislature would consider eliminating it. It's run by several racetracks. It started only last fall. As far as I know, it didn't generate much money. I had actually never even heard of it until I started Googling on this subject several weeks ago. Montana's legislature meets every two years. It just met in 2009, so won't have a regular session until 2011.

12. I think Montana would have a terrific court argument against the ncaa if it tried to use this "policy" to ban championship events in Montana. The policy is vague. They policy has not been enforced by the ncaa. Montana has the statute against sports betting. Montana's sports-related betting is minor and isn't real sports betting. The policy, as it relates to Montana, isn't based on a strong foundation. Montana courts aren't likely let the ncaa enforce some vague, silly and almost whimsical "policy". Montana courts and judges are very independent, and, like Montana residents, pride themselves on being that way.

13. In Montana, as well as Delaware, I just can't see a judge siding against Montana or Montana St, and in favor of the ncaa. This isn't a federal gaming statute that judges are obligated to enforce; this is some vague and ill-conceived policy of a body that almost everyone thinks is out to lunch on various issues. A judge would bend over backwards to side with the local university. Judges would have considerable discretion in this area. There is no law saying a court has to enforce ncaa rules, especially arbitrary ones. The criticism of a local judge who sided with the ncaa and caused home playoff games to disappear would be enormous.

14. If I were the ncaa, I would think long and hard before I challenged Montana to the point of where they would challenge the ncaa in court--because the ncaa is likely to lose. If the ncaa were to lose on enforcing their policy in Montana, they would have a harder time enforcing the policy elsewhere, starting with Delaware. This would lead me to consider a compromise with Montana. I suspect that there will be places to compromise too.

[bluehenbillk]

The story that hit the wires here last night (http://www.abcmontana.com/news/local/46415472.html) said something about not allowing post-season play in any "metropolitan area" where sports betting is available. Elsewhere I read that even under Delaware's new statute it still would only be legal at 3 casinos. Are any of those three in Newark? If not, maybe you don't have a problem.



The nearest casino to UD would be Delaware Park. Delaware Park, which is in Stanton, DE is about 15 minutes away from UD, located in Newark, DE. I'm not a lawyer and don't know what would be defined as a metropolitan area.

[Green26]

Okay, I now see that the spokeswoman, whom I believe made the quote regarding Montana, is:

"Rachel Newman Baker, NCAA director of agent, gambling and amateurism activities"

Here's an article criticizing the hypocrisy of the ncaa on gambling:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:VBFB-mvlo2QJ:www.gambling911.com/gambling-news/ncaa-continues-get-lambasted-gambling-hypocrisies-040809.html+ncaa+director+of+gambling&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[bluehenbillk]

Some miscellaneous comments, facts and thoughts:

1. I don't think it's clear what the ncaa quote on Montana being an "administrative oversight" means. There's not enough information in the quote to know exactly what the spokesperson was saying. It could, however, mean what some of you are saying. It could also turn out to have either meant something else or have been a poor choice of words by a spokesperson caught offguard and under some pressure.

2. I don't believe the ncaa spokesperson was the ncaa director of gambling, or whatever some of you calling that position. I don't recall seeing anything from the director of gambling on this subject. If some of you know otherwise, let us know.



See the youtube link on the previous page on this thread. ESPN interviews Rachel Newman Baker who is identified as the NCAA Director of Gambling who makes the comments regarding "administrative oversight" that you mention in your 1st point.

[Green26]

If New Jersey gets sports betting, I wonder how it would go over for the ncaa to ban championship events in the New York "metropolitan" area, which includes part of New Jersey.

Is any part of Delaware in the Philadelphia metropolitan area?

[Green26]

Bluehenbilk, see my post immediately above yours. But thanks.

[griz8791]

. . . I'm not a lawyer and don't know what would be defined as a metropolitan area.

I think most lawyers would be hard-pressed to tell you what "metropolitan area" means.

[Ivytalk]

Okay, I now see that the spokeswoman, whom I believe made the quote regarding Montana, is:

"Rachel Newman Baker, NCAA director of agent, gambling and amateurism activities"

Here's an article criticizing the hypocrisy of the ncaa on gambling:

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:VBFB-mvlo2QJ:www.gambling911.com/gambling-news/ncaa-continues-get-lambasted-gambling-hypocrisies-040809.html+ncaa+director+of+gambling&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

No less a personage than Frank Deford was quoted in today's Wilmington paper regarding hypocrisy at both the NCAA and NFL levels. Sports betting means ratings, and ratings mean money!xcoolx

[4th and What?]

The story that hit the wires here last night (http://www.abcmontana.com/news/local/46415472.html) said something about not allowing post-season play in any "metropolitan area" where sports betting is available. Elsewhere I read that even under Delaware's new statute it still would only be legal at 3 casinos. Are any of those three in Newark? If not, maybe you don't have a problem.


Delaware Park is in Newark. Also includes Dover Downs in Dover, and Harrington Raceway in....you guessed it, Harrington.

[griz8791]

I think Delaware and Montana fans have lost track of the really important issue here: under this policy, the FCS championship game is absolutely, positively not going to be in Vegas.

Someone needs to alert MplsBison immediately.

[93henfan]

Delaware Park is in Newark. Also includes Dover Downs in Dover, and Harrington Raceway in....you guessed it, Harrington.

I don't think anyone would consider Delaware Park to be in Newark. Locals would consider it Stanton. The mailing address is 777 Delaware Park Blvd., Wilmington, DE 19804.

[YoUDeeMan]

Delaware Park is in Newark. Also includes Dover Downs in Dover, and Harrington Raceway in....you guessed it, Harrington.

Huh? xnutsx

Perhaps your screen name should be 4th and Where??? xlolx

[4th and What?]

I am going to squarely put the blame on Microsoft Streets and Trips which says it is in Newark. xrolleyesx And microsoft always tells me the truth.

[Green26]

Good point on Las Vegas, 8791.

Wikipedia on "metropolitan area":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_area

United States
The Office of Management and Budget defines "Core Based Statistical Areas" used for statistics purposes among federal agencies. Each CBSA is based on a core urban area and is composed of the counties which comprise that core as well as any surrounding counties that are tightly socially or economically integrated with it. These areas are designated as either metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas, based on population size; a "metro" area has an urban core of at least 50,000 residents, while a "micro" area has less than 50,000 but at least 10,000.[

[Green26]

Under the new Delaware law, can the placing of bets occur only at the racetracks, or can the bets be placed offtrack, i.e. in and from Newark?

To me, this is a critical distinction, under the stated ncaa policy.

[YoUDeeMan]

I am going to squarely put the blame on Microsoft Streets and Trips which says it is in Newark. xrolleyesx And microsoft always tells me the truth.

Dear 4th and What? and the general AGS community,

I am sorry if you or anyone found offense in my attempt at a humorous response to your post - and others *cough* in this particular thread. Forgive me. I have found and gotten in contact with my inner child and am channeling good vibes towards everyone on Earth and the Universe beyond. All will be healed as we all move towards an enlightened oneness with no conflict.

Microsoft Streets and Trips was not off at all and can't be blamed for what it didn't know. After all, it was made by humans. We, as humans are...off...and our sickness is showing through in everything we touch. The NCAA, gambling laws, bad sports writers, the triple option. The list goes on and on. Only Tastykake products have been immune from our ills. Well, maybe also some of the better tequilas, rums, beers, and wines, too. But the rest is sullied in...wait...not many faults in Breyer's Ice Cream either.

But enough of the exceptions. We have the power to change what we touch and right now, AGS, I'm touching you. And through touching you, AGS, I am touching myself. It feels great.

We are one. Not number one...just one. I am you and you are we, and...well, we're all together now. In harmony. As it is written. xreadxxrulesx

Forgive me. I am forgiven.

[4th and What?]

Huh? Why would I be offended? That is silly, I was wrong and should be smited as such.

A few clips from the reg that might apply to some of the recently brought up points (
http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/lis145.nsf/vwLegislation/HS+1+FOR+HB+100/$file/legis.html?open):

Not later than April 1, 2010, the Video and Sports Lottery Study Commission shall report to the General Assembly on the effects on state revenues, the revenues of existing video lottery agents, the horse racing industry, employment, and the surrounding communities and businesses if the State were to grant:

(1) Additional video lottery licenses to any person, including, but not limited to, a person who does not operate a racetrack property in this State conducting horse racing meets pursuant to Title 3 or Title 28 or harness racing meets pursuant to Title 3; and

(2) Additional licenses to operate only a sports lottery to any person, including, but not limited to, a person who does not operate a racetrack property in this State conducting horse racing meets pursuant to Title 3 or Title 28 or harness racing meets pursuant to Title 3.".

------------------

Section 16. Amend §4819, Title 29 of the Delaware Code by deleting subsection (a) in its entirety and by substituting in lieu thereof a new subsection (a) to read:

"(a) Video lottery machines and sports lottery machines shall only be located within the confines of an existing racetrack property in this State on which was conducted in 1993 either a horse racing meet pursuant to Title 3 or Title 28 or a harness horse racing meet pursuant to Title 3 and/or such immediately adjacent property or properties that are owned by, or immediately adjacent properties that may be acquired by, the video lottery licensee authorized to conduct such horse racing or harness racing; and provided further, that video lottery machines and sports lottery machines shall not be located in a hotel, motel or other overnight sleeping facility.".






And from an act that I think is currently in Senate Finance committee (http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/lis145.nsf/vwLegislation/SB+93/$file/legis.html?open)

(c) A sports lottery commenced pursuant to this section must be conducted exclusively at facilities operated by video lottery agents licensed by the State, at a State run video lottery site, and at no more then ten off-track betting parlors. Licenses awarded to video lottery agents relative to the video lottery shall automatically allow those agents to operate facilities at which the sports lottery can be conducted.

(d) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary, net proceeds from the sports lottery shall be returned to the State at a rate of not less then 50% of the average daily win.

(e) The Director shall also promulgate regulations necessary to license and regulate off-track betting parlors.” Section 8. AMEND §4803, Title 29, of the Delaware Code by adding a subsection (i), to read as follows:

“(i) Sports lottery’ shall mean a lottery in which the winners are determined based on the outcome of any professional or collegiate sporting event, including racing, held within or without the State, but excluding collegiate sporting events that involve a Delaware college or university and amateur sporting event that involve a Delaware team.”

[YoUDeeMan]

Huh? Why would I be offended? That is silly, I was wrong and should be smited as such.

xthumbsupx

Pssst...agsadmin, please change that 5 cent donation to AGS from my name and donate it in 4th and What?'s name. He is a clever guy with better sense than most. xnodx

Back to football. xcoffeex

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Here is a Missoulian article, it sounds like the UM and MSU have started to work on the issue, so hopefully they will make some headway with the NCAA.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2009/05/29/bnews/br60.txt

[phillyAPP]

Dear 4th and What? and the general AGS community,

I am sorry if you or anyone found offense in my attempt at a humorous response to your post - and others *cough* in this particular thread. Forgive me. I have found and gotten in contact with my inner child and am channeling good vibes towards everyone on Earth and the Universe beyond. All will be healed as we all move towards an enlightened oneness with no conflict.

Microsoft Streets and Trips was not off at all and can't be blamed for what it didn't know. After all, it was made by humans. We, as humans are...off...and our sickness is showing through in everything we touch. The NCAA, gambling laws, bad sports writers, the triple option. The list goes on and on. Only Tastykake products have been immune from our ills. Well, maybe also some of the better tequilas, rums, beers, and wines, too. But the rest is sullied in...wait...not many faults in Breyer's Ice Cream either.

But enough of the exceptions. We have the power to change what we touch and right now, AGS, I'm touching you. And through touching you, AGS, I am touching myself. It feels great.

We are one. Not number one...just one. I am you and you are we, and...well, we're all together now. In harmony. As it is written. xreadxxrulesx

Forgive me. I am forgiven.

CluckU .... That was BEAUTIFUL........ AND SO ARE YOU !!!!!!......... Read this post as if you were crying to get the real feeling for what i am posting.

You are very sensitive !!! LMAO :D

[89Hen]

I don't think anyone would consider Delaware Park to be in Newark. Locals would consider it Stanton. The mailing address is 777 Delaware Park Blvd., Wilmington, DE 19804.
I would. :o There were only maybe four real addresses in northern NCC growing up. You either lived in Wimington, New Castle, Hockessin or Newark with Wilmington and Newark being 90% of it. I would have never considered DE Park to be in anything but Newark.

[93henfan]

I would. :o There were only maybe four real addresses in northern NCC growing up. You either lived in Wimington, New Castle, Hockessin or Newark with Wilmington and Newark being 90% of it. I would have never considered DE Park to be in anything but Newark.

I always considered it just past the Christiana Mall. xthumbsupx

[YoUDeeMan]

I would. :o There were only maybe four real addresses in northern NCC growing up. You either lived in Wimington, New Castle, Hockessin or Newark with Wilmington and Newark being 90% of it. I would have never considered DE Park to be in anything but Newark.

I lived near the intersection of Kirkwood Highway and Limestone Road....Marshallton/Stanton. I remember we used to put Marshallton on our mail in the late 60's and early 70s. When our postal carrier eventually told us to change to Wilmington, it felt wierd...we didn't consider ourselves part of that city. xnodx

Delaware Park, about a mile away as the crow flies, was always considered to be in Stanton by the locals.

However, Newark, 7+ miles down Kirkwood Highway, was a world away and never part of the equation. Now that I live in Newark, it is even more of a reach to think of Delaware Park as any part of Newark. Heck, Newark is just now pondering the annexation of the large property just east of White Clay Creek and caddycorner to the Outback (Outback is behind the old Shakey's Pizza). We've got a long way to go before we get to Delaware Park's range. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Delaware Park, about a mile away as the crow flies, was always considered to be in Stanton by the locals.
You're talking micro-locals. For those of us that grew up in Wilm and schooled in Newark, DE Park is Newark. xpeacex

[JayJ79]

All these places legalizing various types of gambling.

What's next, legalized prostitution too?
T'would be another source of income for the government.

[93henfan]

All these places legalizing various types of gambling.

What's next, legalized prostitution too?
T'would be another source of income for the government.

If you ever had to drive Rt-13 or Rt-40 through New Castle, DE after dark on a Friday or Saturday night, your outlook on legalized prostitution might change.