Big Ten Looking to Expand

[Redwyn]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-paterno-bigtenexpansion&prov=ap&type=lgns

Certainly of interest with all the discussion about the fate of the Big East. Thoughts?

[ElSissy]

Paterno has been yacking about this all Spring. Ohio State and Michigan will oppose it because a Big Ten championship game would diminish their rivalry game. In the Big Ten, Ohio State and Michigan get what Ohio State and Michigan want.

[AshevilleApp2]

Paterno has been yacking about this all Spring. Ohio State and Michigan will oppose it because a Big Ten championship game would diminish their rivalry game. In the Big Ten, Ohio State and Michigan get what Ohio State and Michigan want.

Probably right on the Big 2 point. To me the only logical addition to the Big 10 would be Notre Dame. We'll see.

[FCS Go!]

Probably right on the Big 2 point. To me the only logical addition to the Big 10 would be Notre Dame. We'll see.

Agreed. Maybe W. Va as well though that seems a real stretch.

[ISUMatt]

I always thought stealing Iowa St from the Big XII would also be sensible for the Big Ten

[AshevilleApp2]

I always thought stealing Iowa St from the Big XII would also be sensible for the Big Ten

That could be a good fit as well. I just don't like the idea of the conference straying to far geographically from the midwest.

[Franks Tanks]

Agreed. Maybe W. Va as well though that seems a real stretch.

WVU, and Iowa State are not good fits for the Big 10. They have more in common with their current conference mates.


Notre Dame, Missourri, Rutgers or Pitt are the best potential add IMO.

[chrisattsu]

I always thought stealing Iowa St from the Big XII would also be sensible for the Big Ten

Does Iowa State have the Academic Prestige that the other Big 10 schools do?

Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, MSU, PSU, and tOSU are all considered Public Ivies.



To me, the Big 10 has always been a Midwestern League. I still have mixed feelings about Penn State being part of this group, and it seems weird to think about it stretching all the way to NY/NJ

[Franks Tanks]

Does Iowa State have the Academic Prestige that the other Big 10 schools do?

Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, MSU, PSU, and tOSU are all considered Public Ivies.

Well the Public Ivies changs all the time as everybody names this school or that school a public ivy. The original Public Ivies are below and from the 1985 book that coined the term

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Moll also offered in the same book "a list of worthy runners-up" and brief summaries of them[7]:

University of Colorado at Boulder
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
New College of the University of South Florida (Now New College of Florida)
Pennsylvania State University at University Park
University of Pittsburgh
State University of New York at Binghamton
University of Washington at Seattle
University of Wisconsin–Madison


So a fews Big schools were among the original list, and schools like Minnesota and Ohio State have improved a lot since 1985.

Iowa State is a good school, but yes it doesnt quite match the rest of the Big 10 from an academic standpoint. Perhaps more importantly only Iowa ever plays Iowa state-- they dont mix very often with Big 10 schools.

Pitt and Notre Dame have more tradition with Big 10 schools and are a better academic fit.

[ElSissy]

Missouri would be one of he lowest ranked academically in the Big Ten. Aside from its journalism school, it's nothing special. However, it does have the St. Louis and Kansas City markets.

Iowa State isn't up to speed academically and brings no new TV markets.

West Virginia is much like Iowa State in terms of academics and TV rankings.

Notre Dame just isn't going to happen. Never.

Rutgers is a decent research university with good academics and is in the New York TV markets, but that market is already dominated by Notre Dame and Penn State.

Syracuse isn't going to give up Big East basketball for the sake of getting their heads pounded in on the gridiron nearly every week.

Pitt would be a decent choice academically, but they are attached to Big East basketball and wouldn't do much to enhance TV viewership. Penn State dominates college football ratings in Philly and Pittsburgh.

There is no perfect academic, geographic, TV fit, but Pitt and Rutgers would seem to fit the best.

[89Hen]

Well the Public Ivies changs all the time as everybody names this school or that school a public ivy. The original Public Ivies are below and from the 1985 book that coined the term

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Moll also offered in the same book "a list of worthy runners-up" and brief summaries of them[7]:

University of Colorado at Boulder
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
New College of the University of South Florida (Now New College of Florida)
Pennsylvania State University at University Park
University of Pittsburgh
State University of New York at Binghamton
University of Washington at Seattle
University of Wisconsin–Madison
The bolded seem like odd picks to me for that list. xconfusedx

[Franks Tanks]

The bolded seem like odd picks to me for that list. xconfusedx

Really-- those are some great schools.

The incoming stats for students at Texas,Wisconson, Illinois, and Washington are very high.

You also need good stats to get into Penn State main from the start. Penn State accepts a lot of so-so students but they must go to a brancjh campus and get goog grades to transfer to main and complete their studies

The initial list was 25 years ago so some schools went up and others down in that time.

[chrisattsu]

The bolded seem like odd picks to me for that list. xconfusedx

Speaking only about University of Texas here--

The university is annually ranked among the country’s very best public research universities and many of its colleges, schools and departments are considered among the finest in the nation. Because of its high academic quality and relatively low cost, the university is consistently cited as one of the best values in American higher education by publications such as the Fiske Guide to Colleges, the Princeton Review and the Kiplinger Business Magazine.

The Times of London, in a 2004 survey of colleges and universities around the world, ranked The University of Texas at Austin the 15th-best university in the world.

In the latest survey by the National Research Council, seven doctoral programs ranked in the top 10 in the nation, and 22 departments ranked in the top 25. Among Texas colleges and universities, The University of Texas at Austin ranked No. 1 in 30 of the 37 fields in which it was evaluated.

[Dane96]

WVU, and Iowa State are not good fits for the Big 10. They have more in common with their current conference mates.


Notre Dame, Missourri, Rutgers or Pitt are the best potential add IMO.

How does Missouri or Rutgers fit with the Big Ten...but Iowa State does not. Curious. I say that because the view that Rutgers is "an outside Ivy League" type school as SUNJ likes to proclaim...is a crock.

IMHO...it is ND or Pitt.

[Franks Tanks]

How does Missouri or Rutgers fit with the Big Ten...but Iowa State does not. Curious. I say that because the view that Rutgers is "an outside Ivy League" type school as SUNJ likes to proclaim...is a crock.

IMHO...it is ND or Pitt.

Rutgers may not be that diffenet from Iowa State academically (not sure if that is actually the case) but it brings a new market. Iowa State takes a back seat big time to Iowa, and there is nothing in Ames Iowa.

Rutgers is getting better academically and in Football and is a much better options IMO.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

How does Missouri or Rutgers fit with the Big Ten...but Iowa State does not. Curious. I say that because the view that Rutgers is "an outside Ivy League" type school as SUNJ likes to proclaim...is a crock.

IMHO...it is ND or Pitt.

We're not talking about the Summit League or the Horizon where simply adding a school int he footprint is what matters.

We're talking BIG MONEY for the Big Ten. And adding Iowa St. adds nothing. Ziltch.

And for a conference like the Big Ten with only a single spot to fill, market does come into play as being a huge factor. For the ACC, with 3 spots, markets came into play, but increasing the football strength with Miami was key. For the Big Ten, that's not the case.

For the Big Ten, Missouri at least gives you the huge alumni base located in St. Louis and even Kansas City. And it gives you both of those markets for TV. Notre Dame tops the list because of it's national following and huge alumni bases in Chicago and New York. But Rutgers or Syracuse would give the Big Ten (and B10 Network) would give market access greater than even Missouri. This is why you will always see the top 3 options for the Big Ten being: Notre Dame, Rutgers/Syracuse.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

How does Missouri or Rutgers fit with the Big Ten...but Iowa State does not. Curious. I say that because the view that Rutgers is "an outside Ivy League" type school as SUNJ likes to proclaim...is a crock.

IMHO...it is ND or Pitt.


And I'll say it again. Don't place any stock in Paterno mentioning Pitt. There is no chance it happens. Paterno knows what he is doing. He mentioned 3 schools. Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and clarified "in not that order". He only included Pitt in his conversation because if he had omitted Pitt from his list, THAT becomes the story. All the PA headlines would read "JoPa Disses Pitt". Instead, he included Pitt in his "list" but clearly stated the importance was adding an "Eastern market". It doesn't take mucht o read between the lines: Penn St. has a bigger share of the Pittsburgh market than Pitt even does. "Eastern" market means NY/NJ, which means Rutgers or Syracuse.

[ElSissy]

Let's not kid ourselves about NYC. It just isn't much of a college football market. To the extent that it is, Notre Dame and Penn State are dominant. Nobody in NYC really give a rat's behind about Rutgers football and even less about Syracuse football.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Let's not kid ourselves about NYC. It just isn't much of a college football market. To the extent that it is, Notre Dame and Penn State are dominant. Nobody in NYC really give a rat's behind about Rutgers football and even less about Syracuse football.

There's a difference between perception and fact though. It does seem that there is college football indifference. That is the perception. But there are more people watching college football in the NY market then there are in markets that are considered top football markets.

People would laugh to think that more people are watching a Syracuse vs Rutgers game in the NY DMA then the entire state of Alabama watching an undefeated Alabama football team. But those are the facts: there are more TV sets.

And there is something to be said about alumni bases. NY is home to so many current B10 alumni, perhaps the most for a single city after only Chicago. Those numbers fluctuate. But for the Big Ten to look towards NYC for expansion, well, it is a consideration that makes more sense than virtually any expansion done in recent years. Again, only Notre Dame is a better option, the best option, for any conference since they give you a national audience.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Let's not kid ourselves about NYC. It just isn't much of a college football market. To the extent that it is, Notre Dame and Penn State are dominant. Nobody in NYC really give a rat's behind about Rutgers football and even less about Syracuse football.

Even more interesting is that JoPa would make a push for a school in his backyard. Penn St. would likely lose recruits to Rutgers or Syracuse from both NY and NJ if they were in the Big Ten. Penn St. has always been such a strong force in NJ and I found it surprising that he would put the benefits of the Big Ten ahead of his own self interests at Penn St.

[ElSissy]

Rutgers has never out-recruited Penn State and never will. Syracuse hasn't out-recruited Penn State since the early 60s. Both Syracuse and Rutgers would get their heads bashed in by Big Ten football teams. The Big Ten might not be the SEC but it certainly isn't the Big East either.