NASCAR Rain

[89Hen]

Second time this year? These rain shortened events absolutely blow and should NOT count toward standings. Several cars stay out on a yellow and the race abruptly ends. I've got nothing against Reutimann but that has to be the worst win ever. xsmhx

[UNHWildCats]

Second time this year? These rain shortened events absolutely blow and should NOT count toward standings. Several cars stay out on a yellow and the race abruptly ends. I've got nothing against Reutimann but that has to be the worst win ever. xsmhx
ya they new pit stops were coming, they shoulda red flagged it a bit sooner. I am all for pit strategy but that was bogus...

[93henfan]

Second time this year? These rain shortened events absolutely blow and should NOT count toward standings. Several cars stay out on a yellow and the race abruptly ends. I've got nothing against Reutimann but that has to be the worst win ever. xsmhx

It just goes right along with the bastardization of the sport that NASCAR has conducted for the past ten years. I remember NASCAR finishing rain-delayed races on Tuesdays in the past. Why couldn't that have been done this time?

Modern day NASCAR is simply maddening. They make up the rules as they go, in the decision room at the track. Could you imagine if the NFL or MLB made new rules during games? xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

My dad will probably want to kill me, but I am seriously debating rather or not to go to the races in Dover this weekend. The sport is giving me an ulcer, and I've been a die-hard fan since I could walk.

[89Hen]

My dad will probably want to kill me, but I am seriously debating rather or not to go to the races in Dover this weekend. The sport is giving me an ulcer, and I've been a die-hard fan since I could walk.
You should definitely skip the race. xsmiley_wix

[OSBF]

It just goes right along with the bastardization of the sport that NASCAR has conducted for the past ten years. I remember NASCAR finishing rain-delayed races on Tuesdays in the past. Why couldn't that have been done this time?

Modern day NASCAR is simply maddening. They make up the rules as they go, in the decision room at the track. Could you imagine if the NFL or MLB made new rules during games? xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

My dad will probably want to kill me, but I am seriously debating rather or not to go to the races in Dover this weekend. The sport is giving me an ulcer, and I've been a die-hard fan since I could walk.


I'm pretty sure the over half way its a race rule isn't anything new.

[93henfan]

I'm pretty sure the over half way its a race rule isn't anything new.

Yeah you're right. I missed the obvious by focusing on how weak of a way it was for Reutimann to win a race. That's what happens when a sport is pissing you off this badly. :D I'll fess up and admit I never had my TV on Fox or radio on MRN/PRN once yesterday.

[JayJ79]

is that really any different than a race ending under caution?
or more aptly, someone winning because they skip a pit stop and try to stretch their fuel/tires/whatever, betting on getting a late caution or something?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'll be at Dover on Sunday and Pocono next week so hopefully the weather holds out. 2007 was brutal, Dover rain out then they only got to halfway the next week at Pocono.

[93henfan]

I'll be at Dover on Sunday and Pocono next week so hopefully the weather holds out. 2007 was brutal, Dover rain out then they only got to halfway the next week at Pocono.

So what is your strategy for getting in and out of the mess that is Dover on Sunday? I pity folks who have to come and go from north or west of the track. This state's highways are not made to carry race and beach traffic on the same day.

On the weather front, for now the forecast is sun from Saturday through Tuesday, sunny and 78 on Sunday, but I'm not willing to bet on it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

So what is your strategy for getting in and out of the mess that is Dover on Sunday? I pity folks who have to come and go from north or west of the track. This state's highways are not made to carry race and beach traffic on the same day.

On the weather front, for now the forecast is sun from Saturday through Tuesday, sunny and 78 on Sunday, but I'm not willing to bet on it.

We've been going to Dover for 20 years and outside of our first visit we have never had any trouble. We pick up route 9 by the oil refinery outside of New Castle. We make a pitstop at the BP then take 9 all the way to the track. Never see any traffic and after the race litterally start our car and drive out of the lot. It's a decent hike across route 1 to our seats but who cares. We'll leave Scranton a little before 8, get to track at 11:30 and we'll be home by 10. When the race started at 12 and 12:30 it made for an early morning but the later starts make for a much more relaxing drive down.

[OhioHen]

If they really are "the best drivers in the world" let them put on treaded tires instead of racing slicks and adjust to the conditions. There's no reason to stop because the weather isn't perfect.

And that "competition yellow" they have if there isn't a caution early in the race just needs to go away.

[93henfan]

If they really are "the best drivers in the world" let them put on treaded tires instead of racing slicks and adjust to the conditions. There's no reason to stop because the weather isn't perfect.

And that "competition yellow" they have if there isn't a caution early in the race just needs to go away.

You'd better check the weight of one of these cars before suggesting treaded tires. Goodyear has a hard enough time keeping slicks from disintegrating on these puppies. This is not Indy or Formula One. A NASCAR car weighs 3,400 pounds. Indy and F1 cars weigh ~1,500 lbs, sit lower, have wings that apply downforce equal to the weight of the car, and have far larger tires. Whole different ballgame.

[Cobblestone]

Modern day NASCAR is simply maddening. They make up the rules as they go, in the decision room at the track. Could you imagine if the NFL or MLB made new rules during games?




I'll tell you one similarity between these two organizations...they've both basically become marketing tools for sponsors. I like both but after a while the amount of advertising gets sickening. That is why I prefer to go to races at the local short tracks. It's much more pure sport and a lot less expensive. I equate it to attending an FCS football game instead of an NFL game.

[93henfan]

I'll tell you one similarity between these two organizations...they've both basically become marketing tools for sponsors. I like both but after a while the amount of advertising gets sickening. That is why I prefer to go to races at the local short tracks. It's much more pure sport and a lot less expensive. I equate it to attending an FCS football game instead of an NFL game.

Agree wholeheartedly. Here's an example of the commercials (146 total) during just one race broadcast from Dover, not even including the one-hour pre-race commercial bonanza: http://www.cawsnjaws.com/article/262/commercial-breakdown-for-the-dover-400

[89Hen]

is that really any different than a race ending under caution?
or more aptly, someone winning because they skip a pit stop and try to stretch their fuel/tires/whatever, betting on getting a late caution or something?
IMO yes. Everyone can take the risk knowing they need to get to 500, 400, 600... miles. Taking a chance not knowing how far you actually have to go is different to me. xpeacex

[ISUMatt]

I assume they cant finish on Tuesdays anymore due to commitments at the next track...I know when they come to Chicago, starting on Tuesday, the drivers are in the neighborhoods, in the schools, promoting good will..Im sure in the old days they did not do this...Mr Reutimann even admitted in the post race interview that it didnt feel like a real win and hopefully he can do it the right way the next time....Dont be pissed at the man just cuz he did what he needed to do in case of rain...DONT HATE THE PLAYA, HATE THE GAME!!!

[89Hen]

This is not Indy or Formula One. A NASCAR car weighs 3,400 pounds. Indy and F1 cars weigh ~1,500 lbs, sit lower, have wings that apply downforce equal to the weight of the car, and have far larger tires. Whole different ballgame.
You sound like Harry Hogge. :p

http://www.zuguide.com/image/Robert-Duvall-Days-of-Thunder.1.jpg

[OSBF]

If they really are "the best drivers in the world" let them put on treaded tires instead of racing slicks and adjust to the conditions. There's no reason to stop because the weather isn't perfect.

And that "competition yellow" they have if there isn't a caution early in the race just needs to go away.

Tires are the most important piece of eqipment on any race car in any racing series. The mandated caution to allow the crews to check tires in situations where tire wear will be an unknown(a green race track) are vital for safety reasons.


You'll likely never see rain tires in NASCAR. The cars are too heavy to be stable, and are pretty twitchey as they are. Because they are so heavy, when they hit the wall, the impact is harder on the driver than F-1 or IRL, even though those cars are moving much faster. Too much risk of a big impact and serious injury.

[OSBF]

IMO yes. Everyone can take the risk knowing they need to get to 500, 400, 600... miles. Taking a chance not knowing how far you actually have to go is different to me. xpeacex

Yep.........it's called rolling the dice and coming up with 7 or 11, you win.

If the race would of re-started, the guys that didn't stop are back in the 20's. It didn't re-start, the calculated gamble paid off big for them. I'm sure they weighed the risk/reward before deciding to stay out.

[89Hen]

Yep.........it's called rolling the dice and coming up with 7 or 11, you win.

If the race would of re-started, the guys that didn't stop are back in the 20's. It didn't re-start, the calculated gamble paid off big for them. I'm sure they weighed the risk/reward before deciding to stay out.
And to me that's not racing. The guys who stayed out had nothing to lose, so it's really not a gamble. It would be like rolling the dice for money without having to put up an ante. xnodx

[OSBF]

And to me that's not racing. The guys who stayed out had nothing to lose, so it's really not a gamble. It would be like rolling the dice for money without having to put up an ante. xnodx

Wrong. They team that won was right there on the edge of being in the chase. They had a tremendous amount to lose, like being 12th in points or being 20th.

DW made it a point to talk about just that in the post race.

Face it, the crew chief just plain out smarted the field, kudos to him.

[89Hen]

Wrong. They team that won was right there on the edge of being in the chase. They had a tremendous amount to lose, like being 12th in points or being 20th.
NOT wrong. If the race didn't get called and it kept going and they had to wait for another caution to pit, they would have found themselves right back in the same spot they were when they rolled the dice. They wouldn't have lost any ground compared to where they were when the "rolled the dice".

[OSBF]

NOT wrong. If the race didn't get called and it kept going and they had to wait for another caution to pit, they would have found themselves right back in the same spot they were when they rolled the dice. They wouldn't have lost any ground compared to where they were when the "rolled the dice".

So what you're saying is that they would of been able to pit for 4 tires and gas, and been allowed to resume their position in front of the 20 some cars that made their stop under yellow before the red flag came out? For some reason I don't think either NASCAR or the 20 some cars that did stop would of been OK with that.

[appfan2008]

NASCAR doesnt get it

stopping races like this is just pennies compared to how they have killed the core of their audience

[Cobblestone]

You'll likely never see rain tires in NASCAR.

There was one race last season when I did. It was at a road track in Quebec. They put rain tires on the cars along with windshield wipers. I forget how long they actually raced like that but I do remember it was the worst NASCAR race I have ever seen.

[UNHWildCats]

So what you're saying is that they would of been able to pit for 4 tires and gas, and been allowed to resume their position in front of the 20 some cars that made their stop under yellow before the red flag came out? For some reason I don't think either NASCAR or the 20 some cars that did stop would of been OK with that.
what he is saying is the cars that didnt pit had nothing to lose in the race.. they were what 30th before the pit stops they dont pit and end up at the front... worst case the race resumes and they have to pit and end up back in 30th where they were.

Sure "The Franchise" is just outside the top 12 but he was way back in the field... he had nothing to lose that day.

[OSBF]

There was one race last season when I did. It was at a road track in Quebec. They put rain tires on the cars along with windshield wipers. I forget how long they actually raced like that but I do remember it was the worst NASCAR race I have ever seen.


What kind of cars were they? Road course and NASCAR by default = bad race.

3500 lb full body stock cars with only 7-8 inches of rubber on the track surface have no business being on a road course.

[Cobblestone]

What kind of cars were they? Road course and NASCAR by default = bad race.

3500 lb full body stock cars with only 7-8 inches of rubber on the track surface have no business being on a road course.


It was the Nationwide Series. They're racing there again this season. I agree that NASCAR and Road courses don't make good partners.

http://www.nascar.com/races/tracks/cgv/index.html

[OSBF]

I could sort of appreciate the old Riverside track and Ontario, but the ones today not so much.

[89Hen]

So what you're saying is that they would of been able to pit for 4 tires and gas, and been allowed to resume their position in front of the 20 some cars that made their stop under yellow before the red flag came out? For some reason I don't think either NASCAR or the 20 some cars that did stop would of been OK with that.
xconfusedx No. They were in 20th when the caution came out. Had the race continued they would have lost those 20 spots to all the cars that came in and got new tires. So what I'm saying is that by them not pitting under caution when the top 20 cars did, they risked NOTHING.

[89Hen]

what he is saying is the cars that didnt pit had nothing to lose in the race.. they were what 30th before the pit stops they dont pit and end up at the front... worst case the race resumes and they have to pit and end up back in 30th where they were.
Billy Idol gets it. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

Road course and NASCAR by default = bad race.
Agreed there OS. When I see the promos for the upcoming Sonoma race I just xnonono2x.

[LacesOut]

I'm not going to Dover on Sunday. I've attended the last 8 or so in June, and the last 6 or so in September. I just have no desire to waste my entire day (starts at 6 am with the wake up and ends around 7 pm when I get home) on it anymore. I don't even watch races on TV any longer.

But I am going on Saturday and taking my GF, who's from Queens, NY, and has never really even seen anything NASACAR related. We're going to watch the cup practices and some of the Nationwide race, and to just walk around and see the sights and enjoy not having 120,000 people there.

[ISUMatt]

NASCAR doesnt get it

stopping races like this is just pennies compared to how they have killed the core of their audience

is it bad for baseball to call a game after 5 innings??? Same thing!!

[89Hen]

is it bad for baseball to call a game after 5 innings??? Same thing!!
There are 2500 baseball games in a year. Calling a Royals/Blue Jays game once a year is OK.

[ISUMatt]

they tried for 2 days to get the race in...sometimes mother nature just wins,

[OSBF]

they tried for 2 days to get the race in...sometimes mother nature just wins,

Hardcore NASCAR fans are some of the least objective sports fans on the planet. If the race had been called because of the rain with their "guy" out front everything would be just dandy with the call made by the NASCAR officials. It wasn't, so all of a sudden this is a tragedy, un-American, and somehow a black-eye for the sport.

[89Hen]

Hardcore NASCAR fans are some of the least objective sports fans on the planet. If the race had been called because of the rain with their "guy" out front everything would be just dandy with the call made by the NASCAR officials. It wasn't, so all of a sudden this is a tragedy, un-American, and somehow a black-eye for the sport.
Well I'm neither a Busch or Reutimann fan and had no dog in the hunt on Monday and I think it's a stupid way to end a race. I said before, I'm more questioning it counting towards the standings. Award the race but don't have it count. xpeacex

[89Hen]

BTW, it's also VERY different from baseball in that in baseball you're always trying to lead. In racing, you're not always going balls to the wall. If a baseball game is called after 7 innings, it's not like you were holding back or had to rest your players heading into the rain delay. These racers had to pit because if the weather held off, they'd need new tires. Apples and oranges.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm not going to Dover on Sunday. I've attended the last 8 or so in June, and the last 6 or so in September. I just have no desire to waste my entire day (starts at 6 am with the wake up and ends around 7 pm when I get home) on it anymore. I don't even watch races on TV any longer.

But I am going on Saturday and taking my GF, who's from Queens, NY, and has never really even seen anything NASACAR related. We're going to watch the cup practices and some of the Nationwide race, and to just walk around and see the sights and enjoy not having 120,000 people there.

I've been going to races since i was a little kid. My father was a big Bill Elliott fan in 80's, he also liked CART/Indy Car racing at the time. The first race i attended was a Bush race at Nazereth in '87. Since then i've been to over 100 Cup/Bush races, 75 or so being Cup. There's no doubt that the sport has lost it's luster in the last 4-5 years. The sport sold out to TV and the fad fans and completely forgot about the attending and loyal fan. Still every time i go i love it almost as much as the first time. My hope is that the fly by nighters have departed and NASCAR will once again market the sport back to it's roots more. Depending on the auto industry the amount of sponsorship involvement moving forward i could easily see some big changes. For one don't be surprised in the next 5 years if the Nationwide Series is racing at Rockingham and North Wilkesboro again and the Cup schedule is reduced. Imagine that happening 7-8 years ago when there were tracks popping up everywhere? A possible 32 or so week schedule seems very possible with the Nextel/Winston whatever it's called being axed as well.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Agreed there OS. When I see the promos for the upcoming Sonoma race I just xnonono2x.

Say what you want about road courses but they are without a doubt the best test of skill these drivers go through IMO. Just look at the past race winners, it's a who's who of the sport. Guys like Robby Gordon and Montoya are both fantastic drivers themselves. Pocono and Darlington used to be similar until rule changes and the template car.

Sears Point (Infinion)
1989 Ricky Rudd
1990 Rust Wallace
1991 Davey Allison
1992 Ernie Irvan
1993 Geoff Bodine
1994 Ernie Irvan
1995 Dale Earnhardt
1996 Rust Wallace
1997 Mark Martin
1998 Jeff Gordon
1999 Jeff Gordon
2000 Jeff Gordon
2001 Tony Stewart
2002 Ricky Rudd
2003 Robby Gordon
2004 Jeff Gordon
2005 Tony Stewart
2006 Jeff Gordon
2007 Jaun Pablo Montoya
2008 Kyle Busch

Watkins Glen
1986 Tim Richmond
1987 Rusty Wallace
1988 Ricky Rudd
1989 Rusty Wallace
1990 Ricky Rudd
1991 Ernie Irvan
1992 Kyle Petty
1993 Mark Martin
1994 Mark Martin
1995 Mark Martin
1996 Geoff Bodine
1997 Jeff Gordon
1998 Jeff Gordon
1999 Jeff Gordon
2000 Steve Park
2001 Jeff Gordon
2002 Tony Stewart
2003 Robby Gordon
2004 Tony Stewart
2005 Tony Stewart
2006 Kevin Harvick
2007 Tony Stewart
2008 Kurt Busch

[Cobblestone]

I've been going to races since i was a little kid. My father was a big Bill Elliott fan in 80's, he also liked CART/Indy Car racing at the time. The first race i attended was a Bush race at Nazereth in '87. Since then i've been to over 100 Cup/Bush races, 75 or so being Cup. There's no doubt that the sport has lost it's luster in the last 4-5 years. The sport sold out to TV and the fad fans and completely forgot about the attending and loyal fan. Still every time i go i love it almost as much as the first time. My hope is that the fly by nighters have departed and NASCAR will once again market the sport back to it's roots more. Depending on the auto industry the amount of sponsorship involvement moving forward i could easily see some big changes. For one don't be surprised in the next 5 years if the Nationwide Series is racing at Rockingham and North Wilkesboro again and the Cup schedule is reduced. Imagine that happening 7-8 years ago when there were tracks popping up everywhere? A possible 32 or so week schedule seems very possible with the Nextel/Winston whatever it's called being axed as well.

One NASCAR sponsored division that doesn't get much publicity is the Whelan Modified Tour. There is some damn good racing in that group and I enjoy them much more than the Sprint or Nationwide series.