Interesting Tidbit on FCS Player

[smallcollegefbfan]

I was talking with one of my connections in the NFL and I was told that Andre Roberts, the Citadel WR, got 4th round type grades from NFL teams and some have given him a 3rd round grade. It appears safe to say that he is expected to go in the 4th round of the NFL Draft at this point. Congrats to Roberts! He is the best WR I have seen in FCS and is a heck of a return specialist. I really think Payton voters need to give him a strong look this year. I know his team has not been great but he is the best NFL prospect in the Southern Conference no questions asked.

[Syntax Error]

...Andre Roberts...is the best player in the Southern Conference no questions asked.Uh, Armanti Edwards?

[ElSissy]

If you're talking about NFL potential, then Roberts is the best in the SoCon. Edwards will never sniff an NFL field, certainly not as a QB.

[BarefootApp]

"...best player in the Socon no questions asked"....??? I've got one: how 'bout it gets settled on the field, with the returning Payton winner, since we are still playing college football? There is more value to a player than what he might get in a draft many months from now. He is fine player at The Cid, but we'll see. BUT, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your player. Ahhhh, college football.

[andy7171]

Uh, Armanti Edwards?

I'll see your Uh, and raise you an UH! and a A-HEM!

I can easily see AE being a better Josh Cribbs as a returner/wr/wildcat.

[DLS]

trust me, AE will see an NFL field. whether or not as a QB depends on what pat white does.

[JMU Newbill]

trust me, AE will see an NFL field. whether or not as a QB depends on what pat white does.


This actually carries quite a bit of merit (in my book atleast). One other factor I think will play a huge role on whether AE sees an NFL field is how many teams adopt wildcat formation plays this year. We saw a handful of teams flirt with it last year.... but if some teams incorporate it heavily into their playbook and/or a majority of the teams at least add a play or two..... lots of those spots for people like AE will open up.

Remains to be seen, but the timing certainly looks good for AE.

[DLS]

my rational behind the pat white thing is if he becomes very productive then other teams will want something just like it. And, in next years draft there wont be anything closer to pat white than armanti edwards.

[jmufan999]

If you're talking about NFL potential, then Roberts is the best in the SoCon. Edwards will never sniff an NFL field, certainly not as a QB.

but his statement wasn't about NFL potential:

"best player in the Southern Conference no questions asked"

that's Armanti. and wouldn't Hudgins be #2? one final point that i keep making over and over and i'll keep doing so until i see comments like this disappear: QB's and RB's win the WP award, PERIOD. i'm not saying what SHOULD happen, i'm saying what DOES happen.

as far as the AE/NFL stuff... he's getting drafted, just go ahead and write it down. will he make a team?... at what position?... all that stuff i don't know. but he will be drafted.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

What about Hudgins, the WR from Elon? I have never seen Roberts play, but Hudgins sure seemed like an NFL player.

[SideLine Shooter]

Uh, Armanti Edwards?

xoutofrepxxthumbsupx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

my rational behind the pat white thing is if he becomes very productive then other teams will want something just like it. And, in next years draft there wont be anything closer to pat white than armanti edwards.

Unless there is a paradigm shift in the NFL pretty soon, he won't play as a QB. When the falcons had Michael Vick they were very reluctant to let him scramble around. I don't think any team will let Pat White do his scrambling either. And White isn't as athletic as Vick is.

[The Moody1]

I know his team has not been great but he is the best player in the Southern Conference no questions asked.


I have a question. What have you been smoking? :D

[DLS]

Unless there is a paradigm shift in the NFL pretty soon, he won't play as a QB. When the falcons had Michael Vick they were very reluctant to let him scramble around. I don't think any team will let Pat White do his scrambling either. And White isn't as athletic as Vick is.

crazier things have happened.

pat white could be used completely different than vick.

there's more to black qb'ing than being athletic. little thing called decision making.

[smallcollegefbfan]

If you're talking about NFL potential, then Roberts is the best in the SoCon. Edwards will never sniff an NFL field, certainly not as a QB.

I thought it was understood that I meant NFL potential. Roberts will likely be a top 120 selection and Edwards is a probable free agent. I will say this though. AE has a much better arm than people want to give him credit for. His mechanics and size are why he won't play QB.

[smallcollegefbfan]

What about Hudgins, the WR from Elon? I have never seen Roberts play, but Hudgins sure seemed like an NFL player.

Hudgins is a 4.7 40 guy and Roberts runs in the 4.45 range. I would be surprised if Hudgins was drafted unless he runs in the 4.5s.

[smallcollegefbfan]

but his statement wasn't about NFL potential:

"best player in the Southern Conference no questions asked"

that's Armanti. and wouldn't Hudgins be #2? one final point that i keep making over and over and i'll keep doing so until i see comments like this disappear: QB's and RB's win the WP award, PERIOD. i'm not saying what SHOULD happen, i'm saying what DOES happen.

as far as the AE/NFL stuff... he's getting drafted, just go ahead and write it down. will he make a team?... at what position?... all that stuff i don't know. but he will be drafted.

I was meaning in terms of NFL potential since my thread was talking about NFL prospects. You are wrong about Hudgins being better than Roberts. If you were drafting a FCS all-star team you are telling me you would take Hudgins over Roberts? They are both very close as a WR but Roberts brings All-America ability in the return game. Anytime two players are close in value at one position and only one has special teams value you obviously take the one who can play on special teams. Roberts gets a very big boost in his grade because of that. Like they say in the NFL, the more you can do the more valuable you are. Coaches at all levels feel that way. One thing to remember as well that Hudgins had 92 yards against his last FBS opponent, USF, who had 1st round pick Jenkins who even though he went that high has proven to be a good bit overrated. Roberts caught 9 passes for 153 and one touchdown against Clemson this past year with 2 players who got drafted and 2 more who will likely be drafted this year. He also had a 33-yard punt return, the only punt return of the day for Citadel.

Roberts not only gets open and can break the big play offensively but he can break big plays and set up the offense on special teams as well. That is what puts him over the top. If the Citadel was a 8 or 9 win team people would be rating Roberts higher. Hudgins and Edwards are considered the two best in the league because their teams are better. Roberts led the SoCon in yards, TD catches and catches per game over Hudgins. Here is the stat comparison

Roberts- 95 catches, 1334 yards, 14 TDs
Hudgins- 86 catches, 1116 yards, 10 TDs

As you can see both are great players but Roberts has the better numbers. Then you add in the punt return ability where Roberts had 24 returns for 461 yards and 3 TDs, averaging 19.2 per return and he is the better player between the two... statistically that is. But stats are what they are. They aren't everything but you can come up with a lot of facts about a player due to them.

[Smendy]

I was talking with one of my connections in the NFL and I was told that Andre Roberts, the Citadel WR, got 4th round type grades from NFL teams and some have given him a 3rd round grade. It appears safe to say that he is expected to go in the 4th round of the NFL Draft at this point. Congrats to Roberts! He is the best WR I have seen in FCS and is a heck of a return specialist. I really think Payton voters need to give him a strong look this year. I know his team has not been great but he is the best player in the Southern Conference no questions asked.



Good work SCFBfan, I'll keep a close eye on Roberts, I always enjoy the info and the input xthumbsupx

My guess is is App's best prospect is the junior safety (not Edwards) who could follow Corey Lynch to the NFL.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Good work SCFBfan, I'll keep a close eye on Roberts, I always enjoy the info and the input xthumbsupx

My guess is is App's best prospect is the junior safety (not Edwards) who could follow Corey Lynch to the NFL.

I would agree on that. LeGree is the best safety in FCS and probably deserves mention on the Thorpe Award list as a top 32 candidate. He had 10 INTs and not only has ball skills and speed but will hit you. He also plays with great emotion. Lynch has been quoted last year as saying that LeGree will be better than he ever thought about being. There are other good DBs in their secondary and he never mentioned those guys. As smart as Lynch is that says a lot. Brian Quick probably has the most potential due to his physical skills but his hands were not consistent enough last year to be considered a legit NFL prospect until he shows he can dominate the way he should.

[smallcollegefbfan]

my rational behind the pat white thing is if he becomes very productive then other teams will want something just like it. And, in next years draft there wont be anything closer to pat white than armanti edwards.

I agree with you that his NFL future likely depends on what NFL teams think of Edwards. One thing to keep an eye on as well is the injury factor. At just 5'11, 181 pounds and very thin Edwards has already had injury issues in FCS. NFL teams will be concerned about that at the next level as well. If Edwards is plagued with injuries this year I would be shocked if he got more than a tryout, however, if he stays healthy and does well in the postseason, he has a real shot.

Postseason performance is another thing that people overlook. FCS players not only have to do well during the season but they had to work out well at their pro day and play well in the game or at the practices in one of the all-star games. One thing to keep an eye on is that the Shrine is in financial trouble and if they ever drop out the Texas vs. the Nation game will become more prominent. There is a rumor that another bowl game is coming to be started by one of the people who was behind the Hula Bowl. I do know there will be a new game, not just the shrine, in Florida at some point in the near future. So there is a chance we could see the Shrine replaced by two new games with one in Florida and one in Texas. I wonder why nobody up north has ever thought about starting a game?

[Syntax Error]

I was meaning in terms of NFL potential since my thread was talking about NFL prospects...Why didn't you post it in the NFL forum then? xeyebrowxxsmiley_wix

[DLS]

I thought it was understood that I meant NFL potential. Roberts will likely be a top 120 selection and Edwards is a probable free agent. I will say this though. AE has a much better arm than people want to give him credit for. His mechanics and size are why he won't play QB.

bad mechanics?

AE has one of the highest and quickest releases ive seen.

http://www.appfan.com/autoimage/th644_pLXyzmK


with a release like that he might as well be 6'-5". nobody is going to knock that down.

as far as size goes he's only 20yrs old, heck i grew an inch and put on 20lbs of muscle between 22 and 23. just has to eat.

he's quick, good under pressure, and makes great decisions. what's not to like besides he's from the fcs.

he only had two injuries and only one of those ever kept him from playing. as much as he runs his durability is a huge plus for me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.appfan.com/autoimage/th644_pLXyzmK

"And Armanti Edwards makes the hook shot from downtown!"

[smallcollegefbfan]

bad mechanics?

AE has one of the highest and quickest releases ive seen.

http://www.appfan.com/autoimage/th644_pLXyzmK


with a release like that he might as well be 6'-5". nobody is going to knock that down.

as far as size goes he's only 20yrs old, heck i grew an inch and put on 20lbs of muscle between 22 and 23. just has to eat.

he's quick, good under pressure, and makes great decisions. what's not to like besides he's from the fcs.

he only had two injuries and only one of those ever kept him from playing. as much as he runs his durability is a huge plus for me.

There is much more to mechanics than just that. He could get bigger - then again he might not. We will see. There are a lot of questions on him. Let's just see if he can make it without getting banged up. I really hope he doesn't miss any time this year because he could break several records but won't break them injured.

[Skjellyfetti]

There is much more to mechanics than just that. He could get bigger - then again he might not. We will see. There are a lot of questions on him. Let's just see if he can make it without getting banged up. I really hope he doesn't miss any time this year because he could break several records but won't break them injured.

Care to elaborate on what is mechanically wrong with his throwing motion?

Seems the only thing holding him back is his size.

[DLS]

black qb = bad mechanics.

seriously, the stereotype consistently pops up and im surprised no one in the media addresses it.

AE has a text book throw. high, quick, accurate, catchable.

i think some people just dont want to say he is an all around good qb because no one wants to believe that god does sometimes give with both hands.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

black qb = bad mechanics.

seriously, the stereotype consistently pops up and im surprised no one in the media addresses it.

AE has a text book throw. high, quick, accurate, catchable.

i think some people just dont want to say he is an all around good qb because no one wants to believe that god does sometimes give with both hands.

God does sometimes give with both hands. Pat White and Michael Vick are examples of that. Pat White wasn't drafted because of his running ability. There's no such thing as "we wouldn't have drafted him if he didn't have his running ability" for quarterbacks. If there was, then I think GSU's J.R. Revere and Chaz Williams would have at least gotten a chance with the scouts (as quarterbacks).

I'm not saying he's not a good player. He is a great college player. He's just not in the NFL mold.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Care to elaborate on what is mechanically wrong with his throwing motion?

Seems the only thing holding him back is his size.

Other things in mechanics such as drop back, something he has not had to do, reading through his progressions, and many other things you learn to improve on in the NFL. I will say that he has decent mechanics, just needs tweaking slightly. He has a very strong arm as well. Most probably don't give him credit for having a strong arm and yet he does. His size forces him to deliver the ball higher than he usually should because his arm starts at a lower point than many NFL QBs.

How come nobody is pointing out the injuries as well? He has been beat up over the last two years playing in so many games. Look at all the players over the last few years who dropped to the 6th or 7th round or even went undrafted because of injuries. Anyone remember the LSU LB Beckwith this year who people had as a 3rd-4th round pick and went undrafted with knee concerns. The same thing happened with Joel Bell. There is a chance that AE won't fully pass the medical tests and if he doesn't the NFL will not draft him. I will guarantee that. Hopefully he stays healthy, bulks up, grows an inch, gets with a NFL caliber QB coach, and really wows us in the postseason.

The problem with a lot of this discussion is that he has not grown like people say he could, he has not had a full year without an injury over the last two years, and he is just plain small and probably no faster than a bigger Pat White (6-0, 202). People can hate this statement all they want but I can guarantee you that if the Fordham QB and AE both have All-America seasons that he will go higher in the draft because of his size, pocket presence, and bigger arm (although not much bigger). You can't coach size and players can only get so much bigger without worrying about losing speed. His speed is what makes him so good in FCS. Just remember, a great FCS player does not equal a NFL player.

[smallcollegefbfan]

God does sometimes give with both hands. Pat White and Michael Vick are examples of that. Pat White wasn't drafted because of his running ability. There's no such thing as "we wouldn't have drafted him if he didn't have his running ability" for quarterbacks. If there was, then I think GSU's J.R. Revere and Chaz Williams would have at least gotten a chance with the scouts (as quarterbacks).

I'm not saying he's not a good player. He is a great college player. He's just not in the NFL mold.

J.R. Revere was a good baseball player as well. What an athlete! The only reason Vick was given a chance is because of where he came from. His passing stats in the NFL were average, at best, while he did boast great rushing stats. He was beat up a good bit in the NFL and yet was a good bit bigger than AE. Vick is 6'0, 210 and had trouble with injuries here and there while AE is 5'11, 181.

Don't people realize he will likely have the same trouble and thus all this QB talk does not matter. Edwards WILL NOT play QB in the NFL no matter what White does. He will run the wildcat, play WR, or possibly not get a chance. I continue to bring up the injuries and nobody wants to talk about that because they know that he has been beat up and perhaps AE's shelf life isn't much longer.

I am pulling for Edwards as much as anyone else but I am also very realistic and know what the NFL is looking for and I know how much injuries can impact draft stock. Hopefully he stays healthy and proves his shelf life is nowhere close to done.

[Reign of Terrier]

What about Hudgins, the WR from Elon? I have never seen Roberts play, but Hudgins sure seemed like an NFL player.

nope. Wofford played both, Hudgins was a non-factor while Roberts was the reason the Citadel kept it close. I honestly didn't see anything special about Hudgens this year besides that crazy catch at Chatty.

[DLS]

God does sometimes give with both hands. Pat White and Michael Vick are examples of that. Pat White wasn't drafted because of his running ability. There's no such thing as "we wouldn't have drafted him if he didn't have his running ability" for quarterbacks. If there was, then I think GSU's J.R. Revere and Chaz Williams would have at least gotten a chance with the scouts (as quarterbacks).

I'm not saying he's not a good player. He is a great college player. He's just not in the NFL mold.


pat white was drafted because he produces and fit what miami was looking for. so back to my original statement that AE's nfl dreams are tied to pat's because he has all the skills pat white does and in some cases more.

miami is trying something few other teams are willing to do and if it turns out good then other team's will want to copy

[smallcollegefbfan]

pat white was drafted because he produces and fit what miami was looking for. so back to my original statement that AE's nfl dreams are tied to pat's because he has all the skills pat white does and in some cases more.

miami is trying something few other teams are willing to do and if it turns out good then other team's will want to copy

I will say this. I know for a fact that there are several scouts who have AE as a draftable player in the 6th-7th round range, however, as well all know once you get that late in the draft it is very easy for a player of that value to go undrafted. There is not as much talent this year and with the CBA up you can expect 70 or so underclassmen to declare. With that said, you can likely expect to see some players drop maybe 2 rounds because I expect all the juniors, and some sophomores, projected to go in the top 3-4 rounds will probably declare.

[I-AA Fan]

Look at Troy Smith as an example.

That guy was the worst throwing QB in Ohio State history for 3-years. Every single time he cocked his arm to throw that ball, I would try to guess which opposing player was going to end up with it ...he was nothing short of pathetic. Then we all hear this BS from the HC that he wants to make Smith the starter because he can run, while the current starter . a quality passer ...did not have this. The next thing I see is Troy Smith as a pocket passer & a Heisman candidate/winner. I do not think he ran the ball more than twice all year, as he did not wan to hurt himself and the NFL chances. He is not a good QB, and I cannot beleive he was even a starter, let alone everything else, and now in the NFL. So you never know what is going to happen with the press & the draft. Edwards is black, and from a small college. Therefore he will be the love of ESPN until (and if) they find another. That will be enough to place him in the draft ...again unless they find another and stop pushing edwards.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Look at Troy Smith as an example.

That guy was the worst throwing QB in Ohio State history for 3-years. Every single time he cocked his arm to throw that ball, I would try to guess which opposing player was going to end up with it ...he was nothing short of pathetic. Then we all hear this BS from the HC that he wants to make Smith the starter because he can run, while the current starter . a quality passer ...did not have this. The next thing I see is Troy Smith as a pocket passer & a Heisman candidate/winner. I do not think he ran the ball more than twice all year, as he did not wan to hurt himself and the NFL chances. He is not a good QB, and I cannot beleive he was even a starter, let alone everything else, and now in the NFL. So you never know what is going to happen with the press & the draft. Edwards is black, and from a small college. Therefore he will be the love of ESPN until (and if) they find another. That will be enough to place him in the draft ...again unless they find another and stop pushing edwards.

Are you saying that you think ESPN pubbing a player will get him drafted? I would have to disagree with that. I know for a fact that teams laugh at what Kiper and McShay says. Look at the players that Kiper hyped early last year and where they went on draft day. He was all over Sean Smalls and he went undrafted and no combine. Mike Reilly at CWU went to the combine and Jaworski hyped him like crazy the 3 weeks before the draft and on draft day and he did not get drafted. ESPN finds out the names that NFL teams have rated higher by getting some of their scouting information and pubbing those players. They did not once mention Derek Cox and I said numerous times on here that he would get drafted. He did and Kiper talked about how this was a huge reach and he had him rated like 90th among CBs. Had Cox been invited to the combine or been rated higher by the NFL Scouting Services then Kiper would have had him much higher. ESPN misses on small school players more than they hit on them. The only player that got drafted that I feel like was a shock was J.D. Folsom. Even Weber State fans and people in their athletic department were shocked by that.

All I am saying is that NFL teams look at Edwards and see a late round prospect at this point, before the overwhelming number of underclassmen declare, and ESPN has NOTHING to do with his stock. Kiper has been right about ONE player in 25 years that NFL teams were wrong about and everyone thinks he is a draft god and can get players drafted. He has zero to do with their stock. Now, I look at people who put players in all-star games, scout for National or BLESTO, and those who are paid to do consulting with NFL teams as those who get players in front of GMs, not the media. People can say what they want but the media is not why a player gets drafted. The media gets most of these names from NFL teams.

Here is a list of players that you may or may not know about that you won't find on draft websites right now but as of this past week all 32 NFL teams know about them. These guys will be on them in the next month or two because the media COPIES what tidbits they can get from NFL teams. I am curious if anyone has heard of any of these guys?

OT Tony Washington Abilene Christian
CB Kevin Thornton Arkansas-Pine Bluff
WR Johnny Spevak Central Washington
WR Pat Simonds Colgate
OT Derek Hardman Eastern Kentucky
TE Nate Overbay Eastern Washington
QB Trevor Harris Edinboro PA
QB John Skelton Fordham
WR Ricardo Lockette Fort Valley State
OT James Williams Harvard
OT Edwin "Jared" Veldheer Hillsdale
CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah Indiana PA
WR Harry Von Kann Kenyon College
WR Marcel Thompson Lindenwood (Mo.)
OT Vladimir Ducasse Massachusetts
CB Kelvin Rodgers Minnesota State-Mankato
WR Kelton Tindal Newberry
FS Ronald "Terrell" Whitehead Norfolk State
OT Austin Howard Northern Iowa
DE Danny Batten South Dakota State
WR Bakari Grant UC Davis
WR Chris Carter UC Davis
RB Joique Bell Wayne State (MI)
CB Josh Morris Weber State
OT J'Marcus Webb West Texas A&M
CB Jarvis Richards Youngstown State
WR Donald Jones Youngstown State

Everyone knows of Roberts, Hudgins, Edwards, Perrilloux, etc. so I left those names out.

[I-AA Fan]

Are you saying that you think ESPN pubbing a player will get him drafted? I would have to disagree with that. I know for a fact that teams laugh at what Kiper and McShay says. Look at the players that Kiper hyped early last year and where they went on draft day. He was all over Sean Smalls and he went undrafted and no combine. Mike Reilly at CWU went to the combine and Jaworski hyped him like crazy the 3 weeks before the draft and on draft day and he did not get drafted. ESPN finds out the names that NFL teams have rated higher by getting some of their scouting information and pubbing those players. They did not once mention Derek Cox and I said numerous times on here that he would get drafted. He did and Kiper talked about how this was a huge reach and he had him rated like 90th among CBs. Had Cox been invited to the combine or been rated higher by the NFL Scouting Services then Kiper would have had him much higher. ESPN misses on small school players more than they hit on them. The only player that got drafted that I feel like was a shock was J.D. Folsom. Even Weber State fans and people in their athletic department were shocked by that.

All I am saying is that NFL teams look at Edwards and see a late round prospect at this point, before the overwhelming number of underclassmen declare, and ESPN has NOTHING to do with his stock. Kiper has been right about ONE player in 25 years that NFL teams were wrong about and everyone thinks he is a draft god and can get players drafted. He has zero to do with their stock. Now, I look at people who put players in all-star games, scout for National or BLESTO, and those who are paid to do consulting with NFL teams as those who get players in front of GMs, not the media. People can say what they want but the media is not why a player gets drafted. The media gets most of these names from NFL teams.

Here is a list of players that you may or may not know about that you won't find on draft websites right now but as of this past week all 32 NFL teams know about them. These guys will be on them in the next month or two because the media COPIES what tidbits they can get from NFL teams. I am curious if anyone has heard of any of these guys?

OT Tony Washington Abilene Christian
CB Kevin Thornton Arkansas-Pine Bluff
WR Johnny Spevak Central Washington
WR Pat Simonds Colgate
OT Derek Hardman Eastern Kentucky
TE Nate Overbay Eastern Washington
QB Trevor Harris Edinboro PA
QB John Skelton Fordham
WR Ricardo Lockette Fort Valley State
OT James Williams Harvard
OT Edwin "Jared" Veldheer Hillsdale
CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah Indiana PA
WR Harry Von Kann Kenyon College
WR Marcel Thompson Lindenwood (Mo.)
OT Vladimir Ducasse Massachusetts
CB Kelvin Rodgers Minnesota State-Mankato
WR Kelton Tindal Newberry
FS Ronald "Terrell" Whitehead Norfolk State
OT Austin Howard Northern Iowa
DE Danny Batten South Dakota State
WR Bakari Grant UC Davis
WR Chris Carter UC Davis
RB Joique Bell Wayne State (MI)
CB Josh Morris Weber State
OT J'Marcus Webb West Texas A&M
CB Jarvis Richards Youngstown State
WR Donald Jones Youngstown State

Everyone knows of Roberts, Hudgins, Edwards, Perrilloux, etc. so I left those names out.

I agree with what you are saying completely, especially on ESPN missing small schools. Look at their coverage of our games ...little if any research at all for I-AA/FCS. I should have been more specific in saying ESPN will give Edwards an unwarranted "pump" for a Heisman candidate. That is what puts him in the draft. Kiper is self-promoting I agree. Although I do like what he says most of the time. I am a Jaws fan (when I was a boy, my father took me to see him play against Roger Staubach ...Pensecola vs Youngstown), but he needs to stick to plays and players that execute them. He is quite good at that. However, that does not transfer well as to how a player will perform at the next level. If Jaworski starts placing these guys in NFL programs and discussing that ...it could go over well.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I agree with what you are saying completely, especially on ESPN missing small schools. Look at their coverage of our games ...little if any research at all for I-AA/FCS. I should have been more specific in saying ESPN will give Edwards an unwarranted "pump" for a Heisman candidate. That is what puts him in the draft. Kiper is self-promoting I agree. Although I do like what he says most of the time. I am a Jaws fan (when I was a boy, my father took me to see him play against Roger Staubach ...Pensecola vs Youngstown), but he needs to stick to plays and players that execute them. He is quite good at that. However, that does not transfer well as to how a player will perform at the next level. If Jaworski starts placing these guys in NFL programs and discussing that ...it could go over well.

The funny thing about Kiper is that he knows some things but he is also way off such as that money doesn't fact into top draft picks. Even the agent a player has can affect his draft status. Personally, if I was a GM I would stay away from any player who has Rosenhaus or any of those other slime. I don't trust agents as far as I can throw them and stay away from them in any setting that I see them. That is a whole other subject though in itself.

There is nobody at ESPN that can put a player on the draft board because of what they say. NFL teams have a very detailed and specific way of finding talent. EVERY school is contacted and every player is in the NFL database. If they aren't getting any interest at all then they just aren't as good as they think they are. I hate when people say that a player from D3 or NAIA would have got a look if he was in D1. That is no longer the case as they look everywhere and with technology these days it is even easier for teams to find players than it was 25 years ago when I do believe that players could go undiscovered.

[smallcollegefbfan]

black qb = bad mechanics.

seriously, the stereotype consistently pops up and im surprised no one in the media addresses it.

AE has a text book throw. high, quick, accurate, catchable.

i think some people just dont want to say he is an all around good qb because no one wants to believe that god does sometimes give with both hands.

You are saying because he is black that NFL teams will put him down even more because of his size?

What about Graham Harrell, Nathan Brown, and Chase Clement this past year. They struggled to even get a chance in camp because they were deemed too small to be NFL QBs and were labeled "system" QBs. Brown is a white FCS QB who is bigger than AE and put up impressive numbers as well and everyone here told me I was crazy when I said that he would likely not be drafted and he went undrafted. I also pointed out that Dominique Edison was higher rated than the Texas State WR and was called crazy. Yet on draft day my projections held up pretty well. I am not saying Edison will be a star or that Brown could never play in the NFL but I pointed out concerns that teams had and said what I thought would happen and was put down for it.

There have been plenty of black QBs given a chance since the mid 90s who just did not stick because they weren't that good such as Shaun King, Rohan Davey, Quincy Carter, Kordell Stewart, Akili Smith, Aaron Brooks, Ray Lucas, and we might even add Young and Russell to that list as well. We will have to wait a few years to know on Josh Freeman.

NFL teams are going to give AE a LEGIT look this year with many of them putting him in the 6th or 7th round on their boards, as of now. My whole point is that when it comes down to it you are looking at a 5'11, 181 pound "system" QB, regardless of skin color, that could suffer the same fate that Harrell and others have, especially if he gets hurt this year. I have heard that teams are projecting him at another position such as WR or safety.

[Smendy]

You are saying because he is black that NFL teams will put him down even more because of his size?

What about Graham Harrell, Nathan Brown, and Chase Clement this past year. They struggled to even get a chance in camp because they were deemed too small to be NFL QBs and were labeled "system" QBs. Brown is a white FCS QB who is bigger than AE and put up impressive numbers as well and everyone here told me I was crazy when I said that he would likely not be drafted and he went undrafted. I also pointed out that Dominique Edison was higher rated than the Texas State WR and was called crazy. Yet on draft day my projections held up pretty well. I am not saying Edison will be a star or that Brown could never play in the NFL but I pointed out concerns that teams had and said what I thought would happen and was put down for it.

There have been plenty of black QBs given a chance since the mid 90s who just did not stick because they weren't that good such as Shaun King, Rohan Davey, Quincy Carter, Kordell Stewart, Akili Smith, Aaron Brooks, Ray Lucas, and we might even add Young and Russell to that list as well. We will have to wait a few years to know on Josh Freeman.

NFL teams are going to give AE a LEGIT look this year with many of them putting him in the 6th or 7th round on their boards, as of now. My whole point is that when it comes down to it you are looking at a 5'11, 181 pound "system" QB, regardless of skin color, that could suffer the same fate that Harrell and others have, especially if he gets hurt this year. I have heard that teams are projecting him at another position such as WR or safety.

Cullen Harper is another high profile white QB that didn't get a shot. He went from being the top QB prospect in the class last summer, according to scouts, to not being able to get a free agent deal.

It's hard to say the NFL heavily discriminates against black QB's, when there have been a couple dozen (it seems) drafted fairly high since the mid 1990's. This isn't the 1960 or early-to-mid 1970's when Donovan McNabb, Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham type talents were automatically moved to WR or DB.

I like AE as a player....but if teams think he's better off moving to WR, he should heed that. As should players of any color. Northwestern has a terrible passer named Mike Kafka, who's white and a great athlete. If NFL teams eventually tell Kafka to move to WR to get a chance to stick, he should do it in a second in this economy.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Cullen Harper is another high profile white QB that didn't get a shot. He went from being the top QB prospect in the class last summer, according to scouts, to not being able to get a free agent deal.

It's hard to say the NFL heavily discriminates against black QB's, when there have been a couple dozen (it seems) drafted fairly high since the mid 1990's. This isn't the 1960 or early-to-mid 1970's when Donovan McNabb, Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham type talents were automatically moved to WR or DB.

I like AE as a player....but if teams think he's better off moving to WR, he should heed that. As should players of any color. Northwestern has a terrible passer named Mike Kafka, who's white and a great athlete. If NFL teams eventually tell Kafka to move to WR to get a chance to stick, he should do it in a second in this economy.

And to think, Cullen Harper was being quoted as saying he would go in the top 3 rounds and nobody even wanted him... xoopsx

[DLS]

You are saying because he is black that NFL teams will put him down even more because of his size?

no im refering stereotypes black qb's get.

how often do you hear the media refer to a black qb as being smart, hard working, and having good mechanics?

most of the time its: "natural talent" "he'll just beat you" "make something out of nothing"

black qb's are seen as scramblers and little more.

like when they gave pat white almost zero praise for his throwing ability but then he performs very well at the combine in those exercises. if he was white or mark sanchez there would've have been no surprise.

you cant tell me there is not a stereotype. especially when the draft is concerned. they made pat out to be exceptional runner and who can also throw every once in awhile but in truth he's an exceptional runner AND an exceptional thrower. but, apparently thats too tough for people to swallow.

[DLS]

I like AE as a player....but if teams think he's better off moving to WR, he should heed that. As should players of any color. Northwestern has a terrible passer named Mike Kafka, who's white and a great athlete. If NFL teams eventually tell Kafka to move to WR to get a chance to stick, he should do it in a second in this economy.

if i was an nfl coach and i had a wr who could throw better and make better decisions than my starting qb and i didnt play him because he wasnt prototypical size, i would shoot myself because im an idiot.

[smallcollegefbfan]

no im refering stereotypes black qb's get.

how often do you hear the media refer to a black qb as being smart, hard working, and having good mechanics?

most of the time its: "natural talent" "he'll just beat you" "make something out of nothing"

black qb's are seen as scramblers and little more.

like when they gave pat white almost zero praise for his throwing ability but then he performs very well at the combine in those exercises. if he was white or mark sanchez there would've have been no surprise.

you cant tell me there is not a stereotype. especially when the draft is concerned. they made pat out to be exceptional runner and who can also throw every once in awhile but in truth he's an exceptional runner AND an exceptional thrower. but, apparently thats too tough for people to swallow.

Which black QBs currently in the NFL do you feel have good mechanics, are true pocket passers, and don't tend to want to scramble?

I heard some praise from NFL people on White's throwing at the combine. Heck, his performance in the all-star game and bowl game got praise from NFL people.

I see what you are saying and you are right when it comes to the media. The media does not matter. Repeat after me. The media DOES NOT MATTER! Forget what they say. Most of them are uninformed and hardly none of them are true NFL scouts or have that ability to scout. Any of them who were once scouts or worked in the NFL got fired and that is why they are no longer in the NFL. There is not a single media member who has worked in the NFL that would not go back, if given the chance. Those people who don't give the right praise and who have that stereotype are idiots.

One thing to remember is that in this case there are not many black QBs who fit that mold of a good pocket passer who is not a runner first that has mechanics. When we see more of them like that the media will probably stop with those stereotypes or at least it won't be as prevalent.

I was not pointing out AE's throwing ability because he is black. He releases the ball too high at times, needs to bulk up, and really needs to work on his reads and progressions. I would say that about any QB who has those problems. He is just not a NFL QB because of several things, although arm strength is not one of them as his arm is very solid. When I say solid I am judging his arm on NFL QB arms and not college arms. His arm is excellent in the FCS and as I said, very solid compared to some NFL arms.

I just want to reiterate that AE will not be moved to another position because he is black, he will be moved, if necessary, because they feel his skill set requires it.

[DLS]

Which black QBs currently in the NFL do you feel have good mechanics, are true pocket passers, and don't tend to want to scramble?

pre injury mcnabb but also how many black qb's are treated as true pocket passer's in the nfl?


I heard some praise from NFL people on White's throwing at the combine. Heck, his performance in the all-star game and bowl game got praise from NFL people.

yea i know and they were saying the opposite before then and it was completely undeserved but nobody spoke about getting it wrong did they?


The media does not matter. Repeat after me. The media DOES NOT MATTER!

um, what america are you living in?


One thing to remember is that in this case there are not many black QBs who fit that mold of a good pocket passer who is not a runner first that has mechanics. When we see more of them like that the media will probably stop with those stereotypes or at least it won't be as prevalent.

if you have a quarterback who can do both why would you tell him only to do only one? the media is biased and will report what it wants not what it sees.


I was not pointing out AE's throwing ability because he is black. He releases the ball too high at times,

how does one release the ball "too high"? he's 5'11" i dont think that's possible.


needs to bulk up, and really needs to work on his reads and progressions.

okay now i know youre just making bs up, AE is known for making excellent reads. please start giving examples before you throw this garbage out there.


I just want to reiterate that AE will not be moved to another position because he is black, he will be moved, if necessary, because they feel his skill set requires it.

his skill set is the exact same as pat white's. maybe even better suited due to being more of a north/south runner that the nfl prefers.


im still waiting for to hear a legit problem with his throwing mechanics

[smallcollegefbfan]

pre injury mcnabb but also how many black qb's are treated as true pocket passer's in the nfl?



yea i know and they were saying the opposite before then and it was completely undeserved but nobody spoke about getting it wrong did they?



um, what america are you living in?



if you have a quarterback who can do both why would you tell him only to do only one? the media is biased and will report what it wants not what it sees.



how does one release the ball "too high"? he's 5'11" i dont think that's possible.



okay now i know youre just making bs up, AE is known for making excellent reads. please start giving examples before you throw this garbage out there.



his skill set is the exact same as pat white's. maybe even better suited due to being more of a north/south runner that the nfl prefers.


im still waiting for to hear a legit problem with his throwing mechanics

Well, McNabb is one and there have been others but the problem is when you have just one current QB who actually does stand in the pocket like a pocket passer then the stereotype is going to come, whether it is right or wrong. There needs to be more like him to prove him wrong. You proved my point saying McNabb and nobody else. When there is a QB who can sit back in the pocket, who thinks pass first, and is not an athlete first the media will start to get it right. They do act like black QBs can only be scramblers but that is more of a generalization. Just because 95 percent of them are doesn't mean they all are. The media does need to give more credit to players like White for their passing skills because NFL teams sure did. You need to watch NFL Network more. They gave White credit.

I am saying the media does not matter to NFL teams because they all have an agenda and they have no pull with them. Players are drafted purely based on the research that teams do and how well they play on the field, not whether or not a media outlet is talking about them. Teams often laugh at some of the stupid things the media says.

Bottom line is that, regardless of skill set, talking about his ability as a QB is a waste of time because he is not big enough to stand in the pocket and throw without moving around to see over the bigger linemen in the NFL. Then he is not big enough to take the weekly pounding in the NFL without likely suffering injuries. If FCS has been able to beat him up and take him out of games sometimes, you know the NFL will much more often.

I am not saying you are completely wrong on anything except if you think AE is going to play QB in the NFL then you are wrong. If you are saying there is a stereotype on black qbs, the media doesn't report things correctly, and that AE is a solid passer, etc. then I totally agree.

[Skjellyfetti]

He may line up at receiver some this year.

I think remember at least once, maybe a couple of times, in the Richmond game where Pressley came into the game at QB and Armanti split out wide at receiver.

[smallcollegefbfan]

He may line up at receiver some this year.

I think remember at least once, maybe a couple of times, in the Richmond game where Pressley came into the game at QB and Armanti split out wide at receiver.

Well, he was a WR before he moved to QB in high school so I am sure he is comfortable there as well.

[DLS]

I am saying the media does not matter to NFL teams because they all have an agenda and they have no pull with them. Players are drafted purely based on the research that teams do and how well they play on the field, not whether or not a media outlet is talking about them. Teams often laugh at some of the stupid things the media says.

Bottom line is that, regardless of skill set, talking about his ability as a QB is a waste of time because he is not big enough to stand in the pocket and throw without moving around to see over the bigger linemen in the NFL. Then he is not big enough to take the weekly pounding in the NFL without likely suffering injuries. If FCS has been able to beat him up and take him out of games sometimes, you know the NFL will much more often.

if they didnt care what the media said then vick would be signed already and making 10mil.

as far as his size is concerned, if pat white can do it then so can armanti. there have been smaller qb's playing in the nfl. and, getting "beat up" in the fcs means nothing. are you saying that no qb from the fcs that went pro was ever injured in college? and i doubt many those ever took half the beating edwards does.

i'm not saying him playing qb in the nfl is definite but i truly believe he does have a legit shot pending white's productivity.

[smallcollegefbfan]

if they didnt care what the media said then vick would be signed already and making 10mil.

as far as his size is concerned, if pat white can do it then so can armanti. there have been smaller qb's playing in the nfl. and, getting "beat up" in the fcs means nothing. are you saying that no qb from the fcs that went pro was ever injured in college? and i doubt many those ever took half the beating edwards does.

i'm not saying him playing qb in the nfl is definite but i truly believe he does have a legit shot pending white's productivity.

Teams care when they have someone who will negatively impact their image. They don't care when it comes to evaluating players out of college. They could care less who ESPN ranks as the #1 QB or #10 OT in the draft. One thing to remember is that if teams did care then teams such as the Bengals or Raideres would not have done what they did on draft day.

They only care when it affects ticket sales, they don't care who the media rates as the #1 QB because things like that don't matter to them.

What I am saying in regards to the injury is that no FCS QB has ever been drafted who was injury plagued their last 3 years in college that was under 6'0 200 pounds. I said the injuries will come into play if AE gets hurt this year or is constantly playing banged up. One thing to remember is his shoulder. If his shoulder is hurt again this year it is likely that he MIGHT have some damage there and if he flunks the medical tests at the combine, he will be a free agent, at best.

[DLS]

Teams care when they have someone who will negatively impact their image. They don't care when it comes to evaluating players out of college. They could care less who ESPN ranks as the #1 QB or #10 OT in the draft. One thing to remember is that if teams did care then teams such as the Bengals or Raideres would not have done what they did on draft day.

They only care when it affects ticket sales, they don't care who the media rates as the #1 QB because things like that don't matter to them.

What I am saying in regards to the injury is that no FCS QB has ever been drafted who was injury plagued their last 3 years in college that was under 6'0 200 pounds. I said the injuries will come into play if AE gets hurt this year or is constantly playing banged up. One thing to remember is his shoulder. If his shoulder is hurt again this year it is likely that he MIGHT have some damage there and if he flunks the medical tests at the combine, he will be a free agent, at best.

one sustained injury to keep him from playing after 3years as a starter is far from injury plagued. you are pulling these falsies out of thin air.

Now, media draft rankings has no effect where players go but media EXPOSURE and how they portray someone sure the hell does.

[smallcollegefbfan]

one sustained injury to keep him from playing after 3years as a starter is far from injury plagued. you are pulling these falsies out of thin air.

Now, media draft rankings has no effect where players go but media EXPOSURE and how they portray someone sure the hell does.

I am not saying he won't get a look because of injury. I am just saying that if he misses several games this year scouts are going to say he has not had a healthy season in 3 years and show concern because of his size. He cracked a bone his left shoulder in 07 and had a torn right meniscus in 08 and had surgery on that this year. The first injury was not that bad but the second is a major injury. Hopefully he plays all year and does not get hurt.

I would partly agree with you on how a player is portrayed affects them but then we saw how the media tore Andre Smith apart about leaving the combine, being out of shape, running the 40 without a shirt on, etc. The Bengals still took him #6 even though the media was talking about how his stock was falling like a rock. NFL teams still take players they like and they don't care. While there are some teams that do we all know that someone like Al Davis, Dan Snyder, etc. just don't care what the media says and will do what they want anyway.

[DLS]

I am not saying he won't get a look because of injury. I am just saying that if he misses several games this year scouts are going to say he has not had a healthy season in 3 years and show concern because of his size. He cracked a bone his left shoulder in 07 and had a torn right meniscus in 08 and had surgery on that this year. The first injury was not that bad but the second is a major injury. Hopefully he plays all year and does not get hurt.

im sorry are we seriously talking about AE's 2008 campaign? didnt he win the payton? didnt he put up most yards as of yet? by that logic we should pray he gets hurt because apparently he plays better.

if the injury didnt effect his production then i dont qualify it as a "major injury"

[smallcollegefbfan]

im sorry are we seriously talking about AE's 2008 campaign? didnt he win the payton? didnt he put up most yards as of yet? by that logic we should pray he gets hurt because apparently he plays better.

if the injury didnt effect his production then i dont qualify it as a "major injury"

Major injuries require surgeries and he had surgery. I think it shows how tough he is. He is extremely tough and has great heart and character. I believe that injury also was behind many of his poor throws against Richmond that resulted in what 6 INTs and a loss in the playoffs, for the first time in over 3 years? You can't throw that many picks against a great team like Richmond and not expect it to hurt you.

I saw people calculate what AE would have done had he not missed those games and unless his production would have gone down, it hurt him. Obviously as you pointed out it did not hurt him in the award voting but did slow down his race towards breaking all the ASU records. As great as his numbers were he would have put up astronomical numbers had he played those games. So I think his injuries hurt his output but not by a lot but still hurt it to some extent.

Winning the Payton award has ZERO affect on whether a player gets drafted or not. It will get you noticed but ultimately things such as character, workout results, interviews, and most importantly performances in the big games are what make a FCS player's stock. I know you didn't say the Payton has an affect on his stock but I was just pointing it out in case someone on here tried to say he would get drafted because of it.

[DLS]

Major injuries require surgeries and he had surgery. I think it shows how tough he is. He is extremely tough and has great heart and character. I believe that injury also was behind many of his poor throws against Richmond that resulted in what 6 INTs and a loss in the playoffs, for the first time in over 3 years? You can't throw that many picks against a great team like Richmond and not expect it to hurt you.

I saw people calculate what AE would have done had he not missed those games and unless his production would have gone down, it hurt him. Obviously as you pointed out it did not hurt him in the award voting but did slow down his race towards breaking all the ASU records. As great as his numbers were he would have put up astronomical numbers had he played those games. So I think his injuries hurt his output but not by a lot but still hurt it to some extent.

Winning the Payton award has ZERO affect on whether a player gets drafted or not. It will get you noticed but ultimately things such as character, workout results, interviews, and most importantly performances in the big games are what make a FCS player's stock. I know you didn't say the Payton has an affect on his stock but I was just pointing it out in case someone on here tried to say he would get drafted because of it.


i agree the payton award does not have anything to do with getting drafted even though a considerable amount of the winners go on to have careers in the nfl.

And, i cant say whether or not that injury effected him during the richmond game but he did throw for 433yds and was 29 of 41 vs SCSU the week before. so i could argue he just pulled a jake delhomme and leave it at that.

i think his number are amazing as they are but i would like to view those numbers against the amount of minutes actually played because he scores so quick it would really show his exceptional talent.

[smallcollegefbfan]

i agree the payton award does not have anything to do with getting drafted even though a considerable amount of the winners go on to have careers in the nfl.

And, i cant say whether or not that injury effected him during the richmond game but he did throw for 433yds and was 29 of 41 vs SCSU the week before. so i could argue he just pulled a jake delhomme and leave it at that.

i think his number are amazing as they are but i would like to view those numbers against the amount of minutes actually played because he scores so quick it would really show his exceptional talent.

Yeah, most have and if they are truly the best they should get a shot at the next level somewhere, unless they are too small or have some injury that would keep them from going to that level.

He certainly has amazing talent. I hope he stays healthy this year. One good thing for you guys is that if he goes out you have a very capable player to come in.