Sports Betting Bill Passes DE Senate, Goes to Governor for Signature

[93henfan]

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/sports/20090512_ap_sportsbettingbillpassesdellegislature. html?cmpid=16339736


Sports betting bill passes Del. legislature

RANDALL CHASE

The Associated Press

DOVER, Del. - The state Senate approved a bill Tuesday that would authorize Delaware to become the only state east of the Mississippi River to offer sports betting, sending it to Gov. Jack Markell for his promised signature.

The Senate passed the bill 17-2 without a committee hearing, suspending its rules before voting. The decision came on the first day back in session after hours of closed-door negotiations...

and the part that will make the NCAA dance


The bill calls for the state lottery director to develop rules for a lottery allowing people 21 and older to wager on athletic events, except collegiate or amateur events involving a Delaware team.

[93henfan]

Markell on E:60: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4151955

[Ivytalk]

The NFL is already challenging it in Court.xcoolx

[jmufan999]

i'm jealous. wish i could bet on sports where i live. well, legally.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Saw that piece on ESPN last night. I've seen the questions on here about whether Delaware will be able to host playoff games moving forward.

I am wondering why Montana has been able to host playoff games, since the piece indicated that Montana has sportsbook, albeit small, as well.

[93henfan]

The NFL is already challenging it in Court.xcoolx

I think a little thing called Las Vegas is pretty good precedent for The First State to set up its own operation.

Of course, New Jersey is certainly going to claim the same in it's SCOTUS filing.

The NFL can cry me a river. What is their case? We want to protect the billions of dollars of illegal betting currently going on?

[bluehenbillk]

The NFL is already challenging it in Court.xcoolx

The NFL has already lost once in the Delaware Supreme Court, I think they have little chance this time around as well, won't even get an injunction.


"Saw that piece on ESPN last night. I've seen the questions on here about whether Delaware will be able to host playoff games moving forward.

I am wondering why Montana has been able to host playoff games, since the piece indicated that Montana has sportsbook, albeit small, as well. "

I saw the piece as well, the woman from the NCAA they interviewed was quoted on Montana having home playoff games as being an "administrative oversight" and they wouldn't repeat the mistake. We'll see this fall if they carry through with all this or if the NCAA is just blowing smoke.

[93henfan]

I saw the piece as well, the woman from the NCAA they interviewed was quoted on Montana having home playoff games as being an "administrative oversight" and they wouldn't repeat the mistake. We'll see this fall if they carry through with all this or if the NCAA is just blowing smoke.

Ah, another administrative oversight. That's the second one they've admitted to in as many months regarding gambling and the NCAA postseason.

Seems like "selective oversight" is the term they should use going forward.

Well Griz fans, we're all in this together now.

[DSUrocks07]

I'm still pissed about the immediate taxes. (When signed, DD would need to pay an additional $13 million to the state starting July 1.) Which is why I'm concerned about my job security. Even when approved, I highly doubt that everything will be setup and available in time for football season. Word is that we would barely be ready for March Madness. xsmhx

[93henfan]

Even when approved, I highly doubt that everything will be setup and available in time for football season. Word is that we would barely be ready for March Madness. xsmhx

Assuming this thing clears the courts, I think you'll be amazed how fast DD can set up shop when there is a profit motive. Don't let your management fool you. Back in the days when NASCAR was experiencing exponential growth, DD didn't seem to have too hard a time erecting an extra 20,000 seats between races or a new row of press boxes in record time. Money talks.

[Ivytalk]

The NFL has already lost once in the Delaware Supreme Court, I think they have little chance this time around as well, won't even get an injunction.

I know every one of the Delaware lawyers involved in the case. The political pressure on the Supreme Court to uphold the law will be intense. Should make for an interesting "Opinion of the Justices."
xpeacex

[GannonFan]

I know every one of the Delaware lawyers involved in the case. The political pressure on the Supreme Court to uphold the law will be intense. Should make for an interesting "Opinion of the Justices."
xpeacex

The basis for the NFL's lawsuit, from what was written in the paper, does not appear to be very likely. Basically arguing that sports wagering is a game of skill and not chance. Seeing how even the best handicappers out there struggle to do better than 60%-70%, and the general populace falls far below that, it would seem that if there is skill involved that no one has that skill. But agreed, there would be tremendous pressure on the Del Supreme Court to rule against the NFL and I imagine they will.

[GannonFan]

The NFL has already lost once in the Delaware Supreme Court, I think they have little chance this time around as well, won't even get an injunction.


"Saw that piece on ESPN last night. I've seen the questions on here about whether Delaware will be able to host playoff games moving forward.

I am wondering why Montana has been able to host playoff games, since the piece indicated that Montana has sportsbook, albeit small, as well. "

I saw the piece as well, the woman from the NCAA they interviewed was quoted on Montana having home playoff games as being an "administrative oversight" and they wouldn't repeat the mistake. We'll see this fall if they carry through with all this or if the NCAA is just blowing smoke.


Ah, another administrative oversight. That's the second one they've admitted to in as many months regarding gambling and the NCAA postseason.

Seems like "selective oversight" is the term they should use going forward.

Well Griz fans, we're all in this together now.

Yup, this is now the 2nd time the NCAA has used "administrative oversight" to cover for the fact that they allow both Montana and Nevada to host NCAA championship events. Again, this would get real interesting if the NCAA decides to go nuclear and say that neither Delaware nor Montana can host playoff games any longer.

[bluehenbillk]

I know every one of the Delaware lawyers involved in the case. The political pressure on the Supreme Court to uphold the law will be intense. Should make for an interesting "Opinion of the Justices."
xpeacex

In today's N-J there's an article about the whole thing, the NFL also tried, unsuccessfully, the 1st time Delaware enacted a sports lottery to prevent it. It's hard to find any legal standing the NFL can present to delay it at all.

I know an employee at Delaware park that says they're already in full-speed mode to open sports betting there on or before Memorial Day Weekend.

[UNI Pike]

Can someone get this passed in NC? I'm just sayin

[mainejeff]

Delaware........the NEW Vegas!!! xbeerchugxxhurrayxxbeerchugx

[93henfan]

Delaware the NEW Vegas!!! xbeerchugxxhurrayxxbeerchugx

And the traffic is already bad.

On the bright side, maybe we'll get Wayne Newton and a decent airport. :p

[mainejeff]

And the traffic is already bad.

On the bright side, maybe we'll get Wayne Newton and a decent airport. :p

Times are a changin'........time for states to redefine themselves. Heck, Maine is becoming the tomato capital of the U.S. Who knew?

[Ivytalk]

Delaware........the NEW Vegas!!! xbeerchugxxhurrayxxbeerchugx


And the traffic is already bad.

On the bright side, maybe we'll get Wayne Newton and a decent airport. :p

The chicks are hotter in Vegas. And 93 is right about the traffic. What a boondoggle! Markell's Folly...

But, hey, it was the fiscally responsible thing to do!xrolleyesx

[Green26]

It's a bit of an overstatement to say that Montana allows sports wagering.

Montana allows (i.e. doesn't prohibit) betting within the home or the office. Thus, for example, an office can do an office pool, like for ncaa basketball. Participants outside the office are not allowed. Bars aren't allowed to do brackets that have payouts--as bars are public and not private under the law.

Bars (and perhaps others) can do sports boards, in which random squares are picked (and then the team and number are assigned randomly later). For example, for the Super Bowl. You don't get to pick your team, or your numbers/score. Winning is tied to the actual score at the end of quarters and the game. Maximum payout is $100.

Bars can have calcuttas, in which bidders pick a team, like for ncaa basketball. One half of the proceeds must be split with a charity. At some of the bigger ones, teams may get purchased for say $2,000 or so. Winning the money is dependent on your team winning. No point spreads are assigned.

I suppose a bar could have a calcutta for a Griz football game. However, who would want to participate in that? You'd have to bid for one team or the other, and there'd be no spread. Who in Montana would dare to bid much for the opposing team?

This is, or should be, a non-issue for Montana. The ncaa woman on the audio sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about. This is further example of how out to lunch the ncaa is on many things.

[GannonFan]

It's a bit of an overstatement to say that Montana allows sports wagering.

Montana allows (i.e. doesn't prohibit) betting within the home or the office. Thus, for example, an office can do an office pool, like for ncaa basketball. Participants outside the office are not allowed. Bars aren't allowed to do brackets that have payouts--as bars are public and not private under the law.

Bars (and perhaps others) can do sports boards, in which random squares are picked (and then the team and number are assigned randomly later). For example, for the Super Bowl. You don't get to pick your team, or your numbers/score. Winning is tied to the actual score at the end of quarters and the game. Maximum payout is $100.

Bars can have calcuttas, in which bidders pick a team, like for ncaa basketball. One half of the proceeds must be split with a charity. At some of the bigger ones, teams may get purchased for say $2,000 or so. Winning the money is dependent on your team winning. No point spreads are assigned.

I suppose a bar could have a calcutta for a Griz football game. However, who would want to participate in that? You'd have to bid for one team or the other, and there'd be no spread. Who in Montana would dare to bid much for the opposing team?

This is, or should be, a non-issue for Montana. The ncaa woman on the audio sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about. This is further example of how out to lunch the ncaa is on many things.

The NCAA has said they are against sports gambling, period. That includes sports gambling that doesn't even involve NCAA events. As Montana's sports wagering is constituted, it is still gambling on sports events. The NCAA would never be able to win in court if they tried to prohibit championship events in Delaware but not Montana.

Not to worry, though, it will only be a few years before sports gambling is legal in all 50 states. I certainly don't advocate it, but its inevitibility is impossible to ignore.

[henfan]

Not to worry, though, it will only be a few years before sports gambling is legal in all 50 states.

Utah? Really?

[GannonFan]

Utah? Really?

Sure. Haven't you seen "Big Love"? xlolxxlolxxlolx

[Green26]

The ncaa would not be able to enforce a rule or policy to prevent Montana from hosting ncaa games. A federal judge would side with Montana if it came to that.

The ncaa's "oversight" makes me laugh. Every home playoff game UM has ever hosted occurred after Montana's law was in place, I believe.

I wonder if any of the California Indian reservations allow sports betting? Maybe the ncaa should prohibit bowl games in CA.

If the ncaa is against sports wagering, why allow ncaa sports to occur in states with sports wagering? Why distinquish between playoffs, tourneys and championships--and regular season games?

[T-Dog]

Yup, this is now the 2nd time the NCAA has used "administrative oversight" to cover for the fact that they allow both Montana and Nevada to host NCAA championship events. Again, this would get real interesting if the NCAA decides to go nuclear and say that neither Delaware nor Montana can host playoff games any longer.

Was it also an "administrative oversight" to allow Wofford and Furman to host playoff games based on the NCAA's "ban" on South Carolina due to the Confederate Flag deal?

[MR. CHICKEN]

OURAH NEW STATE MOTTO:.........."WHATEVERAH HAPPENS IN DELAWARE....STAYS....IN DELAWARE.....DUH FIRST STATE"........;)......BRAWK/OBAMA!!

[GannonFan]

The ncaa would not be able to enforce a rule or policy to prevent Montana from hosting ncaa games. A federal judge would side with Montana if it came to that.

The ncaa's "oversight" makes me laugh. Every home playoff game UM has ever hosted occurred after Montana's law was in place, I believe.

I wonder if any of the California Indian reservations allow sports betting? Maybe the ncaa should prohibit bowl games in CA.

If the ncaa is against sports wagering, why allow ncaa sports to occur in states with sports wagering? Why distinquish between playoffs, tourneys and championships--and regular season games?

Indian reservations are, by their very nature, their own separate entities and are not part of the states that encircle them.

As for what they could do, if the NCAA wants to wipe the slate clean, they could bar Delaware, Montana, and Nevada from hosting NCAA championships from this point forward, but they would have to do it in all 3 and they would probably need to start this year. Again, hard to do considering they've inconsistently enforced it previously, and almost impossible to do if they only single out one of those states. I doubt the NCAA does anything about it, though, as they aren't going to stop the wave of legalized sports gambling.

[89Hen]

Not to worry, though, it will only be a few years before sports gambling is legal in all 50 states. I certainly don't advocate it, but its inevitibility is impossible to ignore.
Honestly, I haven't been following this too closely, but from the article it sounded like the reason Delaware could even do this is that they had it in their books prior to a 1992 law that was passed forbidding it. One of only four states...

Because of a brief unsuccessful experiment with a sports lottery in the 1970s, Delaware is one of only four states, along with Nevada, Montana and Oregon, exempted from a 1992 federal law banning sports gambling. As the only state east of the Mississippi River that can offer sports betting, Delaware has a distinct edge against slot machine competition in neighboring states.

[93henfan]

That's correct 89, but Jersey is challenging it in federal court:

http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/05/delaware_adds_sports_betting_i.html


New Jersey state Sen. Raymond Lesniak said Delaware's about-face on sports betting "without a doubt" lends urgency to an effort he has mounted to overturn the federal ban.

Lesniak (D-Union) filed suit against the federal government in U.S. District Court in March, contending the ban unconstitutionally regulates commerce and discriminates against states where wagering on sports is illegal.

He said Tuesday night that he had asked Gov. Jon Corzine to join the suit to give it more heft.

"I hope that happens, because it's all the more imperative for this to go forward successfully," Lesniak said of the lawsuit. "Delaware's entry into the sports betting business is going to severely, severely damage both our casinos and our racetrack industry."

There are some good user comments after that one too. My favorite:


Posted by mrrealist on 05/13/09 at 10:18AM

Before I breaka your leg, Vincenzo, is there anything you wanna say.
Yes. "I should have gone to Delaware and placed my bets"

[Ivytalk]

OURAH NEW STATE MOTTO:.........."WHATEVERAH HAPPENS IN DELAWARE....STAYS....IN DELAWARE.....DUH FIRST STATE"........;)......BRAWK/OBAMA!!

Mr. Chicken: As much as I love your posts, I might have to neg rep you if you keep using that signoff!xnonox



:p

[mountaineertider]

All the NCAA has done lately is out to lunch - they are just now starting to sink their teeth into the USC situation, and the whole Reggie Bush scandal came out what, a year or two ago?

[Green26]

Gannon, this statement of yours is not accurate:

"Indian reservations are, by their very nature, their own separate entities and are not part of the states that encircle them."

Since the laws of the various states are different, the ncaa could take different positions regarding the different states.

During this prolonged time of "oversight", Montana has hosted the ncaa women's hoops tourney.

[GannonFan]

Gannon, this statement of yours is not accurate:

"Indian reservations are, by their very nature, their own separate entities and are not part of the states that encircle them."

Since the laws of the various states are different, the ncaa could take different positions regarding the different states.

During this prolonged time of "oversight", Montana has hosted the ncaa women's hoops tourney.

You are correct that the Indian Reservations are not without regulation. Indian tribes can only have gambling that is already permitted in the state they are within. Sports wagering, then, would appear to be limited to the 4 states where sports wagering is currently legal (Nevada, Oregon, Montana, and Delaware).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oops...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/recruitinginsider/2009/05/this_will_come_up_in_recruitin.html


The Washington area already is a hotbed for division I-AA coaches looking for lesser-known talented players or others who perhaps slipped through the cracks. With many top teams in the region -- James Madison, Richmond, William & Mary, Delaware, for starters -- I am certain this new item will be mentioned by schools recruiting against the Blue Hens.

With Delaware poised to legalize sports wagering, the NCAA is poised to impose one of its lesser-known rules on the state's college programs: Banning them from hosting postseason athletic contests. So if Delaware's football team is good enough to earn a top seed in the I-AA tournament, it will have to go on the road.

While this might not seem like much, in the world of recruiting, where every little tidbit is used to an advantage, be sure that prospective players will be hearing about this.

Was this Delaware sports gambling measure simply a way to spread the talent around? And for good measure, you're also disqualifying Montana as well, making the talent pool bigger... xlolx

As a Lehigh fan, should I be camping on the Delaware Supreme Court's steps to make this a reality? I can see it now: First Round: Delaware at Lehigh - something I wasn't sure I would ever see in my lifetime! xlolx

[89Hen]

Since you have UD going to the Big East, what will this matter?

[GannonFan]

Oops...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/recruitinginsider/2009/05/this_will_come_up_in_recruitin.html



Was this Delaware sports gambling measure simply a way to spread the talent around? And for good measure, you're also disqualifying Montana as well, making the talent pool bigger... xlolx

As a Lehigh fan, should I be camping on the Delaware Supreme Court's steps to make this a reality? I can see it now: First Round: Delaware at Lehigh - something I wasn't sure I would ever see in my lifetime! xlolx


Agree with 89 - you already have us out of the FCS world (post a departure of Hofstra and such) and in the Big East. And seriously, Lehigh winning the Patriot anytime soon? And I thought your feelings on Hofstra were far fetched!!! xlolxxlolx

[bluehenbillk]

Wait, we're in the Big East now??? xthumbsupxxbowxxthumbsupxxbowx

[89Hen]

Wait, we're in the Big East now??? xthumbsupxxbowxxthumbsupxxbowx
For all intents and purposes. We just have to wait a little longer. Hell is down 2 degrees today. xthumbsupx

[93henfan]

For all intents and purposes. We just have to wait a little longer. Hell is down 2 degrees today. xthumbsupx

Assuming hell is the typical large-fire temperature of ~3000 F, we could be in the Big East within 5 years or so if that cooling trend continues.

[89Hen]

Assuming hell is the typical large-fire temperature of ~3000 F, we could be in the Big East within 5 years or so if that cooling trend continues.
Global warming is because of hell cooling. xnodx

[andy7171]

Since you have UD going to the Big East, what will this matter?

xoutofrepx

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[93henfan]

Today's updates:

Sports betting and table games are now legal in Delaware after Gov Markell signed the bill today. The casinos say they will have the sports book open in three months and table games ready in six months.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090514/NEWS02/905140325/-1/updates/Sports+betting+now+legal+in+Del.

[Retro]

And the traffic is already bad.

On the bright side, maybe we'll get Wayne Newton and a decent airport. :p

Hey, Wayne Newton will be at the casino here in Lake Charles next month.xlolx

That's one thing i like about having a casino nearby. Lots of good concerts from veteran acts that you would normally not see anymore because they are no longer in the mainstream music scene or not big enough for arena shows as in their prime.. My wife got me tickets for Hall & Oates last month and i had never got to see them before..

[Ivytalk]

Hey, Wayne Newton will be at the casino here in Lake Charles next month.xlolx

That's one thing i like about having a casino nearby. Lots of good concerts from veteran acts that you would normally not see anymore because they are no longer in the mainstream music scene or not big enough for arena shows as in their prime.. My wife got me tickets for Hall & Oates last month and i had never got to see them before..

The Delaware State Fair in Harrington brings in a few C&W singers each year, but that's about it. I can't see any big Vegas-style acts coming here until and unless they build some big fancy hotels. Not holding my breath...xwhistlex

[93henfan]

The Delaware State Fair in Harrington brings in a few C&W singers each year, but that's about it. I can't see any big Vegas-style acts coming here until and unless they build some big fancy hotels. Not holding my breath...xwhistlex

I don't think there's any large swaths of undeveloped ocean beach left in Delaware, other than state park land. Had this happened 25 years ago, I could see one of the Steve Wynn's or Donald Trump's of the world scooping up a mile of beachfront north or south of Bethany, but I just don't think there's any left now where you wouldn't have to try to uproot multi-millionaires (unsuccessfully I might add). You could possibly try buying out one of the Delaware Bay beaches, but man is that one ugly stretch of coast. I guess the more likely scenario would be Wilmington trying to further develop either its Christiana waterfront or maybe clear out the sagging industrials up around Edgemoor or Claymont and try to build along the Delaware: more ugly coast.

[Green26]

I assume the unprepared and not-so-sharp ncaa spokeswoman is/was not aware of the following Montana statute, which prohibits sports betting:

"23-5-806. Sports betting prohibited -- applicability. Sections 23-5-801, 23-5-802, and 23-5-805 do not:

(1) authorize betting or wagering on the outcome of an individual sports event; or

(2) apply to gambling activities governed under Title 23, chapter 4, except for parimutuel facilities, parimutuel networks, or simulcast parimutuel networks conducting fantasy sports leagues, or under Title 23, chapter 5, part 2 or 5.

[Green26]

To supplement an earlier post on permissible gambling in Montana, Montana also recently started a fledgling fantasy football lottery thing, based on professional football. It is not widely known, nor has it been very successful, to my knowledge. If this was offensive to the ncaa, I assume the state would drop it. Personally, fantasy football is all over the US, and I don't find it offensive at all. I don't see how there could be much in it that could harm college sports.

[GannonFan]

To supplement an earlier post on permissible gambling in Montana, Montana also recently started a fledgling fantasy football lottery thing, based on professional football. It is not widely known, nor has it been very successful, to my knowledge. If this was offensive to the ncaa, I assume the state would drop it. Personally, fantasy football is all over the US, and I don't find it offensive at all. I don't see how there could be much in it that could harm college sports.

The NCAA has stated they are against gambling, in any form, for any sport. It doesn't have to be gambling on NCAA events to draw their ire. Their rationale is they are opposed to the impact it could have on students and student athletes, as they may gamble themselves (although not even on themselves). Delaware is setting up parlay betting, so you can't gamble on one individual event either. Both Delaware and Montana would not pass NCAA muster if it came to it.

[Green26]

Is the ncaa against horse racing? That's betting on a sport. That's legal in lots of states.

The recent statements regarding the ncaa policy have quoted ncaa spokesman as saying the policy (involving championship events) involves "sports betting". While I don't disagree that the ncaa might say that Montana's fledgling fantasy football is sports betting under their policy, Montana's statute appears to say that sports betting is not legal in Montana.

Anyway, if the ncaa's gripe is only with the fantasy football, then I assume Montana could and probably would get rid of that. The legislature doesn't meet again until 2011, though.

[GannonFan]

Is the ncaa against horse racing? That's betting on a sport. That's legal in lots of states.

The recent statements regarding the ncaa policy have quoted ncaa spokesman as saying the policy (involving championship events) involves "sports betting". While I don't disagree that the ncaa might say that Montana's fledgling fantasy football is sports betting under their policy, Montana's statute appears to say that sports betting is not legal in Montana.

Anyway, if the ncaa's gripe is only with the fantasy football, then I assume Montana could and probably would get rid of that. The legislature doesn't meet again until 2011, though.

Money changes hands on the NCAA March Madness tournament too - that would need to go as well, even in the limited form it is in.

[Green26]

Almost no money changes hands in Montana over March Madness. If that was the only issue that the ncaa was after, the ncaa's position could easily be challenged in court, and the ncaa would lose that one in a Montana court. The ncaa has effectively waived its position in that regard in Montana.

I wonder if the ncaa could even find a Montana lawyer to represent them or serve as local counsel (so an out-of-state lawyer could be admitted pro hac vice). Montanans (both Griz and Cats) take their playoff football seriously. I'd hate to be local lawyer involved with trying to get rid of home playoffs games. The lawyer would be run out of the state.

One more thing. Parlay bettering is much different, and more like "sports betting", than fantasy fooball. Parlay betting involves actual teams and outcomes of games. Fantasy football does not.

[93henfan]

The Delaware Supreme Court has agreed to give the NFL a whopping 5 minutes to makes its case against sports betting in the state xlolx :

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090519/NEWS/90519059/NFL+to+get+5+minutes+before+state+Supreme+Court