Eugene Knows "Rejection"

[TexasTerror]

Bruce Eugene feels SWAC coaches don't get the respect they deserve in regards to Spears and the Robinson Award. Article later goes into discussion of the SWAC's non-conference record with the headline that it's "cold outside".

If you read the article, check out Eugene's quote about NCAA Football games. He talks about the great offense, yet awful ratings. It's that way for all I-AA schools!
---------
"I feel like coaches in our conference don't really get the respect they deserve," Eugene said. "A couple of years ago in 2001, when we went 11-2, (former GSU) Coach (Doug) Williams wasn't even considered for the award. If Coach Spears doesn't win, then I know how to face —"

Here, he paused.

"Rejection, should I say," said Eugene.
---------
Baby, it's cold outside

The Southwestern Athletic Conference finished with an awful out-of-conference record this season, beating a I-AA opponent just once when Alabama A&M topped Tennessee State.

The SWAC was 0-4 against the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and 0-3 against the Southland Conference. Worse, two SWAC schools —Arkansas-Pine Bluff and Alabama State — faltered against Tuskegee, a Division II school.

Overall, the SWAC was 7-11 in non-conference games, but the record was padded by victories over tiny programs like Allen, Lincoln, Langston, Concordia and Paul Quinn (twice).

GSU and Texas Southern were the only teams to schedule I-A opponents. Grambling lost 48-7 to Washington State, while TSU fell 45-0 to Texas-El Paso.

http://www.thenewsstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051129/SPORTS/511290338/1006

[WhereDoITypeMyUsername?]

The SWAC was 0-4 against the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference

Ow. If that doesn't tell you something...

Didn't Tuskegee victim Arkansas Pine-Bluff almost beat Grambling?

[SAME OLD G]

Despite what the case maybe regarding the OOC records, what does it have to do with Bruce being considered for the award if it is to go to the BEST offensive player in D1-AA? And if this really is an issue (as some of you have stated) way even bother to nominate Bruce for the award in the first place?

[TexasTerror]

Ow. If that doesn't tell you something...

Didn't Tuskegee victim Arkansas Pine-Bluff almost beat Grambling?

Grambling 26-23 at Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Bruce Eugene 23 of 44 for 316 yard and one interception.

That's the game that seperates the Payton Award finalist from a Payton Award also-ran. You've gotta put up numbers against Pine Bluff, narrowly hitting over 50% of your passes against one of the worst teams in I-AA, that's not good, even on the road...

[TexasTerror]

Despite what the case maybe regarding the OOC records, what does it have to do with Bruce being considered for the award if it is to go to the BEST offensive player in D1-AA? And if this really is an issue (as some of you have stated) way even bother to nominate Bruce for the award in the first place?

Eugene played only nine games when the ballots went in...

His completion percentage was less than 50% against Alabama St, Alabama A&M, Washington St and Southern, the toughest games on Grambling's schedule (though Southern didn't count for ballot purposes). He did not play well (as I think accuracy and completion % are important), win or no win, especially since he lacks the ability to run the ball (outside of Southern game).

On that note, SANTOS was never below 50% and in many cases, was 65% or higher on passing percentage against teams with higher GPIs. Same goes for MEYER. Wasn't Grambling's offense made to have big play WRs? They either can't catch the pill or Eugene has no accuracy...

[SAME OLD G]

On that note, SANTOS was never below 50% and in many cases, was 65% or higher on passing percentage against teams with higher GPIs.

That is typically the case when you throw 10 and 15 yards outs.

[AppGuy04]

come on man, fan or not, you can't seriously make the argument that Eugene is better than Santos

and why does who they played not matter when voting?

[SAME OLD G]

Grambling 26-23 at Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Bruce Eugene 23 of 44 for 316 yard and one interception.

That's the game that seperates the Payton Award finalist from a Payton Award also-ran. You've gotta put up numbers against Pine Bluff, narrowly hitting over 50% of your passes against one of the worst teams in I-AA, that's not good, even on the road...
Oh...thats nice. Now you want to base the entire season on 1 game. It all makes sense now.

[SAME OLD G]

come on man, fan or not, you can't seriously make the argument that Eugene is better than Santos

and why does who they played not matter when voting?

come on man, fan or not, you can't seriously make the argument that Santoas is better than Eugene

and why does who they played matter when voting?

[SAME OLD G]

and why does who they played matter when voting?

And to add to this point. If it does matter who they play, then why the hell do you bother to nominate him?

Nobody seems to want to answer this question.

[AppGuy04]

And to add to this point. If it does matter who they play, then why the hell do you bother to nominate him?

Nobody seems to want to answer this question.

b/c when he was nominated people knew he would have a good year, based on past performance

but I've said this once and I'll say it 1000 times, the SWAC teams could be beat by 1/2 the high schools in Texas, so yes, it matters who he plays

[TexasTerror]

Oh...thats nice. Now you want to base the entire season on 1 game. It all makes sense now.

Do you disagree that the Heisman can be blown on one game or two? People are saying VY's game against the Aggies may have cost him enough votes to lose the Heisman to Reggie Bush. Eugene had a so-so performance against an awful Ark-PB team. Should he be held to different standards here as well? You can not say Santos had a bad game, because he didn't, Meyer as well.

[SAME OLD G]

b/c when he was nominated people knew he would have a good year, based on past performance

but I've said this once and I'll say it 1000 times, the SWAC teams could be beat by 1/2 the high schools in Texas, so yes, it matters who he plays
So which one is it?

[SAME OLD G]

Do you disagree that the Heisman can be blown on one game or two? People are saying VY's game against the Aggies may have cost him enough votes to lose the Heisman to Reggie Bush. Eugene had a so-so performance against an awful Ark-PB team. Should he be held to different standards here as well? You can not say Santos had a bad game, because he didn't, Meyer as well.

Yeah, I disagree. At least with the Heisman, they wait until the entire season is completed before a winner is choosen. Can't say that about the WP award.

[AppGuy04]

So which one is it?

its both

he was nominated for this year past on last years performance

but he shouldn't win it b/c his numbers are against teams equivilant to HS teams, so when you play teams like that, your numbers are obviously going to be good, and even then, he barely completed 50% of his passes vs those crappy teams

[AppGuy04]

Yeah, I disagree. At least with the Heisman, they wait until the entire season is completed before a winner is choosen. Can't say that about the WP award.

why would it matter, Bruce would just have had a chance to pad his stats against 2 more crappy teams, does that make him look better or something? not to me, and obviously the voters saw that too

[TexasTerror]

Yeah, I disagree. At least with the Heisman, they wait until the entire season is completed before a winner is choosen. Can't say that about the WP award.

Season is completed for I-AAs except the SWAC. Why should they wait for the SWAC? They should keep things fresh on everyone's mind instead of voting two weeks later when PLAYOFFS may impact things and take away from deserving players...

[SAME OLD G]

its both

he was nominated for this year past on last years performance

See this is why you shouldn't post about **** you don't know. Somebody educate this fool.

[SAME OLD G]

Season is completed for I-AAs except the SWAC. Why should they wait for the SWAC? They should keep things fresh on everyone's mind instead of voting two weeks later when PLAYOFFS may impact things and take away from deserving players...

So with that said, why bother to nominate him if you are not going to judge him on a complete season? Again, nobody seems to want to answer this question.

[AppGuy04]

See this is why you shouldn't post about **** you don't know. Somebody educate this fool.

its called "preseason" lists, you know, contrived from what people expect to happen

same way they come up with "preseason" polls

nobody has doubted that Bruce has the stats, but how those stats were compiled is why he will not win, that is all

[AppGuy04]

So with that said, why bother to nominate him if you are not going to judge him on a complete season? Again, nobody seems to want to answer this question.

b/c the SWAC is not an exception, and the NCAA refuses to comform to them

majority rule- once again, the rest of I-AA is done

[89Hen]

Bruce Eugene feels SWAC coaches don't get the respect they deserve in regards to Spears and the Robinson Award.
Really? The SWAC sends as many players to the NFL as any other conference yet is always rated as one of the lowest in Division I. IMO that doesn't speak well of the coaching. I've often seen SWAC posters make similar comments.

[McNeese75]

That is typically the case when you throw 10 and 15 yards outs.

G. I did not get to see EG play this year but did he lengthen the field with his passing this year? Two years ago against McNeese it seems over 70% of his passes her quick slants or out patterns resulting in just a few yards. I can remember several series where he completed 2-3 passes and there was no first down.

No smack intended, just a question. Also, IMO he has the tools to play at the next level (Leftwich, Cullpepper, type of player). :nod:

[AppGuy04]

No smack intended, just a question. Also, IMO he has the tools to play at the next level (Leftwich, Cullpepper, type of player). :nod:

if he keeps his weight down, just like Jared Lorenzen

[TexasTerror]

So with that said, why bother to nominate him if you are not going to judge him on a complete season? Again, nobody seems to want to answer this question.

Isn't the SWAC, an I-AA conference? They're just being hurt in being honored because they put themselves at a different standard than that of the rest of I-AA. Then cry FOUL when they don't get their way, like you are on this post...

[SAME OLD G]

G. I did not get to see EG play this year but did he lengthen the field with his passing this year? Two years ago against McNeese it seems over 70% of his passes her quick slants or out patterns resulting in just a few yards. I can remember several series where he completed 2-3 passes and there was no first down.

No smack intended, just a question. Also, IMO he has the tools to play at the next level (Leftwich, Cullpepper, type of player). :nod:

No 75, its a fair question. If you recall during that game, Eugene had no choice but to get rid of the ball quickly because of the blitzing that McNeese did...especially during the early part of the game.

However Eugene loves the long ball. And he will throw it whenever the opportunity presents itself. Its not rocket science to know that the longer the pass, the lower the chances are that a ball is going to be completed. For Eugene to stay above 50% completion rate is quite an accomplishment when you consider how far down the field he throws. This is the thing that stats don't tell you. You have to see it for yourself to believe it.

[SAME OLD G]

b/c the SWAC is not an exception, and the NCAA refuses to comform to them

majority rule- once again, the rest of I-AA is done You still refuse to answer the question. If this is the case...why do you nominate him?

[TexasTerror]

You still refuse to answer the question. If this is the case...why do you nominate him?

He's a I-AA player and therefore is eligible, just like the mid-major folks and all member I-AA schools...

I-AA ALL THE WAY! :hurray:

[SAME OLD G]

Isn't the SWAC, an I-AA conference? They're just being hurt in being honored because they put themselves at a different standard than that of the rest of I-AA. Then cry FOUL when they don't get their way, like you are on this post... The SWAC didn't nominate Bruce. So whats your point?

[TexasTerror]

The SWAC didn't nominate Bruce. So whats your point?

Didn't SWAC choose to be I-AA? :eyebrow:

[McNeese75]

No 75, its a fair question. If you recall during that game, Eugene had no choice but to get rid of the ball quickly because of the blitzing that McNeese did...especially during the early part of the game.

However Eugene loves the long ball. And he will throw it whenever the opportunity presents itself. Its not rocket science to know that the longer the pass, the lower the chances are that a ball is going to be completed. For Eugene to stay above 50% completion rate is quite an accomplishment when you consider how far down the field he throws. This is the thing that stats don't tell you. You have to see it for yourself to believe it.

Thanks for the info. I just remember he was very good at getting the pass off quickly and all Cowboy fans (and coaches) had a new found respect for his abilities after the 2003 game.

[umassfan]

If any SWAC coach gets the award over Richmonds head coach then whoever picks the winner needs their head checked... There is no contest in this.

[SAME OLD G]

Didn't SWAC choose to be I-AA? :eyebrow:

No, not really. Its the classification that the good ole boys of the NCAA created to "trim the fat". But I still don't see what this has to do about him being nominated. Like I said, the SWAC didn't nominate Bruce.

[GrizFoo]

"I feel like coaches in our conference don't really get the respect they deserve," Eugene said. "A couple of years ago in 2001, when we went 11-2, (former GSU) Coach (Doug) Williams wasn't even considered for the award. If Coach Spears doesn't win, then I know how to face —"

Looks like in 2001 the guy who got the E.Robinson Award was deserving, no sniff of a SWAC snub in this case. As far as not being considered, maybe there is something there, but I can think of at least 3 other coaches who should have been in the running.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/robinson_history.htm#Lembo

2001, Pete Lembo, Lehigh

-- Lembo’s first season as head coach at Lehigh was an overwhelming success, as the 31-year old led the Mountain Hawks to a perfect 10-0 regular season, fourth straight Patriot League Championship, and a berth in the 2001 NCAA playoffs. Lembo was promoted from assistant head coach to the top post on February 7, 2001, when former head coach Kevin Higgins took an assistant coaching position with the NFL Detroit Lions. The Mountain Hawks didn’t miss a beat under Lembo, rolling through the regular season and claiming seven double-digit victories. Once in the postseason, Lehigh defeated Hofstra (27-24) in the first round before falling to eventual national runner-up Furman (34-17) in the quarterfinals. Lembo is currently in his fourth season as head coach at Lehigh.

[*****]

And to add to this point. If it does matter who they play, then why the hell do you bother to nominate him? Nobody seems to want to answer this question.He was nominated by his school and conference and the Sports Network.

[kardplayer]

To the question of why nominate him (since no one else has stepped up to give a complete answer)...

1. The nominees are the perceived top 16 players, not the top 3. Mr. Eugene came in 4th with almost twice as many points as #5 (197 vs. 100) so he obviously had a lot of support and was worthy of a nomination.
2. Having the vote before the playoffs starts is advantageous for the SWAC and Ivy guys, because otherwise playoff performances would most likely help someone pick up points - 5 of the top 7 vote getters were in the tournament field of 16 and the other two were Mr. Eugene and Mr. Hartigan (Brown/Ivy). No doubt that if either Texas State or App State wins the whole thing, Nealy and/or Williams would get a huge boost and possibly take the whole thing.
3. The Payton ballot lists not only total yards but Yards per Game. That should help voters take into consideration that he's had less games.

Now, as to whether or not 1 game should hurt him, I think the point is that its not only important to put up numbers, but to put them up when you're team needs you the most. Lets compare Eugene w/ Santos and Meyer for a moment, since they all play the same position.

I believe when looking at QB's, the key factors are Passing Yards per Game, TDs per Game, and, frankly, team's overall performance. In addition though, to you have to look at how good the defenses are, so you can measure the actually add. And that's where Mr. Eugene falls to #4. Check out these numbers:

Ranking of Pass defense yards per game against
GSU opponents - 26, 31,39,72,76,112,114 (WSU and Concordia excluded)
UNH opponents - 5, 15, 32, 47,57, 64, 81, 95

The argument people are making is thus that 290/game with UNH's schedule is better than 363.9/game against GSU's schedule.

Passing Yards per Game
Eugene 363.9
Meyer 328.7
Santos 290.9 (323.7 if you remove the two blowout victories he left before throwing 15 passes)



Clearly Mr. Eugene has a huge edge, but this is where I believe Strength of Schedule comes in, or more specifically strength of defensive opposition.

[TexasTerror]

Yeah, I disagree. At least with the Heisman, they wait until the entire season is completed before a winner is choosen. Can't say that about the WP award.

What about the all-SWAC teams? We got one game left in the season (Grambling-Alcorn St), yet they were announced and even had a nice little write-up in the Chronicle...

Contradicting, I think so...

[JohnStOnge]

come on man, fan or not, you can't seriously make the argument that Eugene is better than Santos

and why does who they played not matter when voting?

Don't be surprised if Eugene gets drafted higher than Santos does when Santos comes out. I'm not saying he will. I don't even know if he'll be drafted. But don't be surprised if he's considered by the NFL to be a better quarterback.

I know it's common to say the NFL thing is different. But what system a QB plays in and what team they play for makes a difference.

Not that I'm saying Eugene is better than Santos. I don't know. There's no debate about who's been the more efficient passer as that's clearly Santos.

Remember, McNair played in the SWAC too and as far as the NFL is concerned is perhaps the best quarterback ever to come out of I-AA. I know Warner had some good years late in his career but I still think that's the case. I'd venture to guess McNair's passing efficiency numbers were not as good as Santos' are either.

[AppGuy04]

Don't be surprised if Eugene gets drafted higher than Santos does when Santos comes out. I'm not saying he will. I don't even know if he'll be drafted. But don't be surprised if he's considered by the NFL to be a better quarterback.

I know it's common to say the NFL thing is different. But what system a QB plays in and what team they play for makes a difference.

Not that I'm saying Eugene is better than Santos. I don't know. There's no debate about who's been the more efficient passer as that's clearly Santos.

Remember, McNair played in the SWAC too and as far as the NFL is concerned is perhaps the best quarterback ever to come out of I-AA. I know Warner had some good years late in his career but I still think that's the case. I'd venture to guess McNair's passing efficiency numbers were not as good as Santos' are either.

no offense, but the comparison to McNair is unflattering to him

Eugene is not half the athlete that McNair was, he has the arm, but thats it. He couldn't run out of a paper bag at that size.

Not sure about the NFL, I mean, there have been plenty of guys drafted who I never would have drafted(Adrian McPherson comes to mind, athlete, but not a QB)

As for the voting, the ballots are finished before the playoffs even start, so winning the NC has no bearing on voting, correct me if I'm wrong

[89Hen]

Don't be surprised if Eugene gets drafted higher than Santos does when Santos comes out.
I'd be surprised if Eugene gets drafted at all unless he loses a LOT of weight between the SWAC CG and the draft. He would get eaten up in the NFL defenses.

[AppGuy04]

I'd be surprised if Eugene gets drafted at all unless he loses a LOT of weight between the SWAC CG and the draft. He would get eaten up in the NFL defenses.

You think people questioned Jared Lorenzen? Just wait!

One thing that bothers me about that, is that he ballooned up to 330, whereas Lorenzen always kept his weight consistent, atleast from what I hear. If he can't be disciplined to not gain 70 or 80 lbs then I doubt he'd work out in the NFL, its a very different game

[JohnStOnge]

You think people questioned Jared Lorenzen? Just wait!

One thing that bothers me about that, is that he ballooned up to 330, whereas Lorenzen always kept his weight consistent, atleast from what I hear. If he can't be disciplined to not gain 70 or 80 lbs then I doubt he'd work out in the NFL, its a very different game

I think Eugene is a whole lot quicker than Lorenzen was. I think he can move surprisingly well.

[MACHIAVELLI]

no offense, but the comparison to McNair is unflattering to him

Eugene is not half the athlete that McNair was, he has the arm, but thats it. He couldn't run out of a paper bag at that size.


Why run when you don't have to. You really haven't seen Bruce play much. People say he could't play QB at that size but we all know that isn't true. Bruce is 28-8* (actually 29-7 a game is pending) as a starter with 2 games left to play.

[AppGuy04]

Why run when you don't have to. You really haven't seen Bruce play much. People say he could't play QB at that size but we all know that isn't true.

but thats just it, everyone has to run in the NFL, so unless he wants to eat dirt all day, he's gonna have to slim down

[MACHIAVELLI]

but thats just it, everyone has to run in the NFL, so unless he wants to eat dirt all day, he's gonna have to slim down

Bruce is faster now than half the starters in the NFL. Bruce has been carrying his weight for a long time. He can't get that much faster ever with a weight loss.

[bandl]

Bruce is faster now than half the starters in the NFL. Bruce has been carrying his weight for a long time. He can't get that much faster ever with a weight loss.

I don't like assumptions like this. Please back this up with research and fact. Like some of those UD fans do. :bow:

[grizindabox]

I will answer the question.


Eugene was nominated in the preseason because he is a good player and had put up good numbers previously in his career. Eugene did not win because he did not have a great year against questionable opponents, while other players had a better year then he did against a more difficult schedule.

[bandl]

I will answer the question.


Eugene was nominated in the preseason because he is a good player and had put up good numbers previously in his career. Eugene did not win because he did not have a great year against questionable opponents, while other players had a better year then he did against a more difficult schedule.
Yeah, what he said!!! :hyped:

Thanks. :hurray:

[MACHIAVELLI]

I will answer the question.
Eugene did not win because he did not have a great year against questionable opponents, while other players had a better year then he did against a more difficult schedule.

How many OOC games does APP St., NH, DSU, GeoSu and the like play? Are all of the teams in all of those conferences relasitcally competing for a conference championship every year for the past 15 to 20 years? What team(s) have been the conf. champs over a 10 year period.

[AppGuy04]

How many OOC games does APP St., NH, DSU, GeoSu and the like play? Are all of the teams in all of those conferences relasitcally competing for a conference championship every year for the past 15 to 20 years? What team(s) have been the conf. champs over a 10 year period.

In the Southern Conference, other than Elon, anyone can beat anyone on any given Saturday, but then again, Elon almost beat Coastal

There is definitely a smaller seperation between the "Big 3" than there has been in the past, atleast in my eyes; Chat, Wofford and Western are all programs on the rise, especially Western, their enrollment has grown by leaps and bounds in the last few years, thus creating more moulah for the athletics dept, and making it more attractive for recruits, only down side is, there is absolutely nothing to do in Culowhee

App's OOC schedule:
@ Eastern Kentucky
@ Kansas
Coastal Carolina
@ LSU

[McNeese75]

no offense, but the comparison to McNair is unflattering to him

Eugene is not half the athlete that McNair was, he has the arm, but thats it. He couldn't run out of a paper bag at that size.

Not sure about the NFL, I mean, there have been plenty of guys drafted who I never would have drafted(Adrian McPherson comes to mind, athlete, but not a QB)

As for the voting, the ballots are finished before the playoffs even start, so winning the NC has no bearing on voting, correct me if I'm wrong

I suspect you have never watched Eugene play. The big guy is pretty nimble for his size.

[AppGuy04]

for his size.

exactly!!! this is not the NFL!!!

[JohnStOnge]

but thats just it, everyone has to run in the NFL, so unless he wants to eat dirt all day, he's gonna have to slim down

Eugene's quicker than Leftwich and Leftwich is in the NFL. He's quicker than Peyton Manning too, I think. In fact I think he's quicker than a number of NFL starters.

I'm not saying he'll be as good as Peyton Manning, of course, just saying that he does have the quickness to survive in that league if he pans out in some other areas. He's got all the physical tooks he needs. His arm is stronger than the average NFL QB, he can make every throw, and he's got plenty enough mobility. In fact on the arm strength thing I don't know if there's anybody in the NFL with a stronger arm than he's got.

Another thing is that he's very strong and tough to bring down. I know NFL players are vastly superior to what he's been shucking off in college but if he ever does play in the NFL I guarantee you you're going to see him throw off some guys trying to sack him.

.

[McNeese75]

exactly!!! this is not the NFL!!!

I would compare his skills to Cullpepper and Leftwich. His weight is similar but he is shorter so if there is something that will hinder him taking the next step, that will be it IMO.

[AppGuy04]

I would compare his skills to Cullpepper and Leftwich. His weight is similar but he is shorter so if there is something that will hinder him taking the next step, that will be it IMO.

maybe he has the skills, but until he actually plays against teams that can challenge him, he will not even be in the same sentence as Leftwich, Culpepper and Manning

remember, these are all I-A guys so the competition faced is much different

[JohnStOnge]

I would compare his skills to Cullpepper and Leftwich. His weight is similar but he is shorter so if there is something that will hinder him taking the next step, that will be it IMO.

I agree. His height is the biggest limiting factor in terms of turning NFL people off to him. They're pretty dogmatic about that.

[McNeese75]

Strange how John and I are coming up with similar observations on his abilities at the same time (without any contact between us)

There just might be something to what we are saying. :nod:

[McNeese75]

maybe he has the skills, but until he actually plays against teams that can challenge him, he will not even be in the same sentence as Leftwich, Culpepper and Manning

remember, these are all I-A guys so the competition faced is much different

OK, with the shoe on the other foot, IYO if your QB going to the NFL? And if so, why would he have a better shot that Bruce?

[JohnStOnge]

Strange how John and I are coming up with similar observations on his abilities at the same time (without any contact between us)

There just might be something to what we are saying. :nod:

He got my respect in that second game against McNeese. I know McNeese was overrated that year but that was still an extremely impressive game by Euguene. The sucker was very accurate, showed a lot of touch and ability to drop it in, and was very hard to sack because of his quickness and strength.

[AppGuy04]

OK, with the shoe on the other foot, IYO if your QB going to the NFL? And if so, why would he have a better shot that Bruce?

the case for Richie Williams is much better b/c:
1)he is a dual threat QB, 2nd probably only to Nealy of Texas State in ability to run as a QB
2)he has the arm and touch(now career yardage leader in the SoCon and only 5th QB in conference history to throw over 50 td's)
3)he has played in arguably the toughest I-AA conference in the nation against far superior teams to that of the SWAC and has shown he can dominate at times(ie- battle tested)
4)has shown that he is adequate against even I-A competition, see LSU

only downside I see for Richie is his bulk, he is rather skinny, but that helps his mobility, might need to add a few lbs

[SAME OLD G]

What about the all-SWAC teams? We got one game left in the season (Grambling-Alcorn St), yet they were announced and even had a nice little write-up in the Chronicle...

Contradicting, I think so...

Notice I said the Heisman, not the SWAC. I am on record on TSPN that the SWAC should have waited until the season was before selecting the team.

[SAME OLD G]

He was nominated by his school and conference and the Sports Network.

Ralph, lets not be politically correct here. It is TSN that has the final say so.

[SAME OLD G]

I believe when looking at QB's, the key factors are Passing Yards per Game, TDs per Game, and, frankly, team's overall performance. In addition though, to you have to look at how good the defenses are

No! See that is the problem with you people. You do not have to look at how good the defenses are. You only have to look at how good the player is. That is what the award is suppose to be about...the ability of the player, not the playing level of the league he comes from.

All of you try to prove your points with stats. Stats don't give you the complete picture. All of you say that his "padded" stats are against inferior competition. Well if we use that line of logic as a basis for selecting a player then it tell me that he is that much better than the competition he plays against...right?

[McNeese75]

the case for Richie Williams is much better b/c:
1)he is a dual threat QB, 2nd probably only to Nealy of Texas State in ability to run as a QB
2)he has the arm and touch(now career yardage leader in the SoCon and only 5th QB in conference history to throw over 50 td's)
3)he has played in arguably the toughest I-AA conference in the nation against far superior teams to that of the SWAC and has shown he can dominate at times(ie- battle tested)
4)has shown that he is adequate against even I-A competition, see LSU

only downside I see for Richie is his bulk, he is rather skinny, but that helps his mobility, might need to add a few lbs

I am sure he is probably a better overall athlete but he is still playing I-AA ball. It will be interesting to see how their future careers develop.

[MACHIAVELLI]

remember, these are all I-A guys so the competition faced is much different

Aren't there various level of competition in D1A programs? How is it any different that D1AA? There are some conferences that are deemed better than others in D1AA correct?

[MACHIAVELLI]

I guess these schools are powerhouses in their respective conferences.
How many of these teams have won a D1AA title in the past 5-10 years?
How many of these teams have competed for a conference title consisntantly for the past 5-10 years?

Northeastern
Towson
Villanova
Rhode Island
Sacremento St.
Northern Arizona
Idaho St.
Weber St.
Liberty
VMI
G. Webb
Indiana St.
Mo. State
Western Illionis
No. Colorado
So. Utah
Columbia
Darthmouth
Penn
Murray St.
SEMO
Tenn. St.
Tenn. Tech
Bucknell
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Sam Houston

[AppGuy04]

Aren't there various level of competition in D1A programs? How is it any different that D1AA? There are some conferences that are deemed better than others in D1AA correct?

When you start to mention names like Manning (Tennessee-SEC) and Culpepper(Syracuse-Big East, back when it was decent), you can not tell me that the SWAC, the worst I-AA conference in the land is comparable to the SEC and Big East. To me, those guys play for big schools for one reason and one reason alone, they are better, so to try and compare Eugene to those guys is crazy, I don't care how much a homer you are

[MACHIAVELLI]

When you start to mention names like Manning (Tennessee-SEC) and Culpepper(Syracuse-Big East, back when it was decent), you can not tell me that the SWAC, the worst I-AA conference in the land is comparable to the SEC and Big East. To me, those guys play for big schools for one reason and one reason alone, they are better, so to try and compare Eugene to those guys is crazy, I don't care how much a homer you are


So for example you are saying when someone runs a 4'4 in the 40 it is different in the SEC than in the SWAC?

[AppGuy04]

I guess these schools are powerhouses in their respective conferences.
How many of these teams have won a D1AA title in the past 5-10 years?
How many of these teams have competed for a conference title consisntantly for the past 5-10 years?

Northeastern
Towson
Villanova
Rhode Island
Sacremento St.
Northern Arizona
Idaho St.
Weber St.
Liberty
VMI
G. Webb
Indiana St.
Mo. State
Western Illionis
No. Colorado
So. Utah
Columbia
Darthmouth
Penn
Murray St.
SEMO
Tenn. St.
Tenn. Tech
Bucknell
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Sam Houston

if you are referring to those teams being bad, I say look in the mirror

the SWAC has what? 10 teams, and they are a combined 6-10 out of conference

somehow I find it ironic that SWAC fans are calling out so called bad teams :rolleyes:

[MACHIAVELLI]

if you are referring to those teams being bad, I say look in the mirror

the SWAC has what? 10 teams, and they are a combined 6-10 out of conference

somehow I find it ironic that SWAC fans are calling out so called bad teams :rolleyes:

I am asking a question. If you don't want to answer it...move on.

[AppGuy04]

So for example you are saying when someone runs a 4'4 in the 40 it is different in the SEC than in the SWAC?

since when does running a 4.4 help you catch or throw a football

this is football, it takes more than running fast to play football, try track if all u care about is speed

its those other "skills" that you seem to overlook that plants them in the SWAC and not the SEC

[AppGuy04]

I am asking a question. If you don't want to answer it...move on.

and I answered it, the SWAC sucks, yes, there are other bad teams, but when a conference of 10 teams has 8, possibly 9 that suck, thats a call for a big case of STFU

[MACHIAVELLI]

since when does running a 4.4 help you catch or throw a football

this is football, it takes more than running fast to play football, try track if all u care about is speed

its those other "skills" that you seem to overlook that plants them in the SWAC and not the SEC


but thats just it, everyone has to run in the NFL, so unless he wants to eat dirt all day, he's gonna have to slim down
.

[AppGuy04]

and where does it say that running is the only ability needed?

[MACHIAVELLI]

and I answered it, the SWAC sucks, yes, there are other bad teams, but when a conference of 10 teams has 8, possibly 9 that suck, thats a call for a big case of STFU

There are bad teams in every conference, some have more than others. I feel teams in your conference suck... But since we've never played it is just a matter of opinion and not fact.

[AppGuy04]

There are bad teams in every conference, some have more than others. I feel teams in your conference suck... But since we've never played it is just a matter of opinion and not fact.

my conference has 3, possibly 4, perrenial powers, thats 1/2 the conference

and you can only make the argument that 2 teams in the conference actually suck, but thats just your opinion

good day

[MACHIAVELLI]

and where does it say that running is the only ability needed?

Others than have actually seen Bruce play say he has the arm strength. Just because you are fast doesn't make you a better QB and just because you can't run as fast doesn't make you worse. I am sure Vick is probably the fast QB in the league...But is he the best passer? Peyton is probabaly the best passing QB in the league but he is probably the slowest.

Bottom line is that Bruce got shafted by a system that is bias. It is nothing new.

[MACHIAVELLI]

my conference has 3, possibly 4, perrenial powers, thats 1/2 the conference



That is your opinion, but it doens't make it fact.

[mikebigg]

G. I did not get to see EG play this year but did he lengthen the field with his passing this year? Two years ago against McNeese it seems over 70% of his passes her quick slants or out patterns resulting in just a few yards. I can remember several series where he completed 2-3 passes and there was no first down.

No smack intended, just a question. Also, IMO he has the tools to play at the next level (Leftwich, Cullpepper, type of player). :nod:

He threw quick slants and out because McNeese blitzes like crazy. That's why our slot receiver Tramon Douglas had 17 catches and 3 td's. Bruce learned to hit the hot receiver against the blitz. Remember in the prior year, he tried to keep throwing the long ball and yall killed us with the blitz. So much so that he was benched for the next game... He got another chance against Alcorn in that next game when the freshman Cooper went down. The rest is history!

[mikebigg]

Isn't the SWAC, an I-AA conference? They're just being hurt in being honored because they put themselves at a different standard than that of the rest of I-AA. Then cry FOUL when they don't get their way, like you are on this post...

C'mon man not this tired old angle again! Surely you don't expect Grambling or Southern to risk this major payday for our schools. Did you see the media coverage we got? That's free publicity that seen by the demographics that we recruit both students and student/athletes. Our schools can't afford to risk such a lucrative and beneficial deal as the Bayou Classic.

We benefit greatly from the name recognition of Grambling and the Bayou Classic...but we also benefit from that week being a light schedule in college football. It's not a knock against the playoffs (though it sometimes get expressed that way), but simply taking our BEST option.

In some ways, I think it's held against us just as much as the OOC record. It might not ever be admitted too...but occassionally, it's visible if you check out the wording: "they put themselves at a different standard than that of the rest of I-AA. Then cry FOUL when they don't get their way..."

[siugrad99]

Bruce - # 1 pick in 2006 draft ... please get over it and stop sniffing his jock you suck ups.

[TypicalTribe]

That is your opinion, but it doens't make it fact.

Actually, that is pretty much fact.

[AppGuy04]

Please let this die! :coach:

[kardplayer]

No! See that is the problem with you people. You do not have to look at how good the defenses are. You only have to look at how good the player is. That is what the award is suppose to be about...the ability of the player, not the playing level of the league he comes from.

All of you try to prove your points with stats. Stats don't give you the complete picture. All of you say that his "padded" stats are against inferior competition. Well if we use that line of logic as a basis for selecting a player then it tell me that he is that much better than the competition he plays against...right?

I've been out of touch for a few days, so I didn't get a chance to respond to you earlier.

1. Being better than substandard competition is not really all that much to brag about.
2. How are we supposed to judge the player if he doesn't actually play good teams? Washington State and San Jose State are ranked next to each other in the I-A passing ratings. Wash. State was the only "good" team Eugene played all year, and he threw for a whopping 197 yards. Comparably, Meyer faced off with San Jose State and he threw for 372.

So again, I say - how do you expect voters to give Eugene more love, when he doesn't perform as well in the one comparable opportunity he had?

You throw a lot of accusations around, but have you ever seen Santos, Meyer, or Hartigan play? Those are the only three players in I-AA that got more votes than Eugene did. He may have been robbed a few years ago, but this year he frankly didn't deserve the award.

[AppGuy04]

I've been out of touch for a few days, so I didn't get a chance to respond to you earlier.

1. Being better than substandard competition is not really all that much to brag about.
2. How are we supposed to judge the player if he doesn't actually play good teams? Washington State and San Jose State are ranked next to each other in the I-A passing ratings. Wash. State was the only "good" team Eugene played all year, and he threw for a whopping 197 yards. Comparably, Meyer faced off with San Jose State and he threw for 372.

So again, I say - how do you expect voters to give Eugene more love, when he doesn't perform as well in the one comparable opportunity he had?

You throw a lot of accusations around, but have you ever seen Santos, Meyer, or Hartigan play? Those are the only three players in I-AA that got more votes than Eugene did. He may have been robbed a few years ago, but this year he frankly didn't deserve the award.

:nod: