Which FCS school has the highest athletic budget?

[TheBisonator]

I've been recently curious about this, just to see where a lot of different FCS schools are at with their athletic budgets. I'd like to know where all of you stand with athletic budgets, as far as the most recent year the data was available. I know NDSU's budget this year (08-09) was $12.2 million, so we're definitely not on top of that list. (We'd probably not even be on top of the D2 list in that regard.xoopsx)

I've heard that some of the Illinois MVFC schools such as SIU and Illinois State had something like twice the athletic budget of NDSU in recent years, although I'm not sure if that's true. I would bet some schools like Delaware, Appalachian State and Montana have much more huge budgets than people think.

So what's your school's athletic budget??

[Gil Dobie]

Some of the schools with Big East and/or major NCAA basketball teams might be pretty high too.

[TheBisonator]

Some of the schools with Big East and/or major NCAA basketball teams might be pretty high too.

I'd like to know Villanova/Georgetown's budgets if possible.

[Dane96]

UMASS was in the high 28m range two years ago.

[DFW HOYA]

1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget

[hippy@GSU]

And GSU is down there at about $9million. xsmhx

[TheBisonator]

1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget

Thanks for the link!! Reps to you.xnodx

[GATA]

And GSU is down there at about $9million. xsmhx

Just another reason why we have no business in FBS football. I think we're actually like 5th or 6th in SOCON budgets...it's almost pathetic.

[introvertedGSUfan]

And GSU is down there at about $9million. xsmhx

That was for basketball dude. xoopsx The football budget and the total budget aren't listed. Or is this the entire budget, because I'm a little confused since they list the basketball coach and the basketball arenas that are used?

[GATA]

That was for basketball dude. xoopsx The football budget and the total budget aren't listed. Or is this the entire budget, because I'm a little confused since they list the basketball coach and the basketball arenas that are used?

That's GSU's total athletic budget. I'm positive that it isn't more than 10 million.

If you look at the top of the list...Texas spent 100,000,000 dollars...that wasn't just on basketball.

[GATA]

Schools in the SOCON who spent more money on Athletics than GSU:

1) App State
2) Elon
3) Samford
4) Wofford
5) The Citadel
6) Chattanooga
7) College of Charleston
8) Davidson

...yeah...that's AWFUL. I always knew GSU was cheap when it came to athletics, but we really need to step it up.

[DTSpider]

What I'm curious is...what is Delaware spending all of that money on?

[DFW HOYA]

What I'm curious is...what is Delaware spending all of that money on?


Delaware? Where's Georgetown spending all that money? xlolx
(About $7M on basketball, and $21M divided among 28 other sports.)

[blukeys]

What I'm curious is...what is Delaware spending all of that money on?

Delaware sponsors more varsity sports than most FBS Schools. Delaware is in the area of Stanford and Harvard regarding the sponsorship of varsity sports. (Delaware has recently added an equestrian program.xrolleyesxxrolleyesx)

Fottbaall brings in the money to support these programs.

[Green Cookie Monster]

$15M for Sacramento State

Highest in the Big Sky

And the students are voting next Mon/Tue to increase athletic fees by $63/semester.

[BearsCountry]

I've been recently curious about this, just to see where a lot of different FCS schools are at with their athletic budgets. I'd like to know where all of you stand with athletic budgets, as far as the most recent year the data was available. I know NDSU's budget this year (08-09) was $12.2 million, so we're definitely not on top of that list. (We'd probably not even be on top of the D2 list in that regard.xoopsx)

I've heard that some of the Illinois MVFC schools such as SIU and Illinois State had something like twice the athletic budget of NDSU in recent years, although I'm not sure if that's true. I would bet some schools like Delaware, Appalachian State and Montana have much more huge budgets than people think.

So what's your school's athletic budget??

I think Missouri State is close to 14 million. If you guys are at 12.2 then you guys are close to Creighton and Illinois State I believe. What is SDSU at?

[BEAR]

My beloved UCA at $6.9 million! xeekx Bear fans....we're ranked 293! We need to step it up! Pull out your wallets! xtwocentsxxbeerchugx

[Wildcat80]

I assume the two Ice Hockey & skiing teams with equipment are expensive for us.

[JackTwice]

I think Missouri State is close to 14 million. If you guys are at 12.2 then you guys are close to Creighton and Illinois State I believe. What is SDSU at?

I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 million

[Go...gate]

Geez, Colgate and Lehigh spend a lot, and Colgate spends 4 or 5 million less than Lehigh! I was shocked to see that Colgate and Princeton are about even and Colgate sponsors fewer sports overall than PU.

[FargoBison]

One thing to keep in mind is that most of NDSU's student athletes are from ND and Minnesota, tuition plus room and board is around $12,500 for those students. Many students from other states can get in for $15,000 and the highest amount a student would have to pay is $21,000. How does that compare to other schools, specifically the ones higher on the list?

[achrist70]

One thing to keep in mind is that most of NDSU's student athletes are from ND and Minnesota, tuition plus room and board is around $12,500 for those students. Many students from other states can get in for $15,000 and the highest amount a student would have to pay is $21,000. How does that compare to other schools, specifically the ones higher on the list?

So students from Minnesota are considered in State?
At UNI In State is around 13,000 (for everything) and 21,000 for out of state.

[FargoBison]

So students from Minnesota are considered in State?
At UNI In State is around 13,000 (for everything) and 21,000 for out of state.

They are basically considered in-state, I think they pay $200 more in the end.

Students from Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Manitoba, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Saskatchewan, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming all qualify for $15,000 tuition.

[97Torero]

Not surprised to see USD at 15.7 million, though I wonder what loyola marymount is getting for their 16+million. No football and all other sports are awful. I think Dayton was the highest in the pioneer at 16.8M.

[gophoenix]

SoCon:
Furman $15,088,237
App $12,432,311
Elon $11,604,188
Samford $11,535,908
Wofford $11,181,633
The Citadel $10,607,744
UTC $10,419,722
Davidson $9,527,857
Georgia Southern $9,115,450
WCU $8,420,164

Makes me curious what this number entails. Are scholarships part of it? If so, it is not a true apples to apples comparison.

Big South:
Liberty $20,788,336
Coastal Carolina $16,873,114
Gardner-Webb $11,481,612
VMI $9,602,822
Presbyterian $9,053,518
Charleston Southern $6,836,317

MEAC:
Delaware State $13,373,430
SC State $9,557,542
BCU $9,505,629
Fl A&M $8,810,597
Hampton $8,523,117
Howard $8,265,744
NC A&T $8,152,259
Norfolk St $7,801,090
Morgan State $7,497,661
WSSU $4,676,724

OVC:
Murray State $11,176,152
EKU $10,985,726
EIU $10,427,936
JSU $9,468,578
TSU $9,448,797
TTU $9,084,113
SEMU $7,966,028
UTM $7,051,020
APSU $6,564,056
MSU $5,786,194

Southland:
Tx St $12,191,513
SFA $11,203,279
SHSU $7,884,584
Nw St $7,608,949
UCA $6,960,245
MSU $6,770,760
SeLU $6,559,163
Lamar $6,456,341
NSU $5,983,426

SWAC:
A A&M $6,945,839
Southern $6,818,663
GSU $6,515,102
PV A&M $6,465,702
JSU $6,155,203
ASU $5,853,817
Tx Southern $5,497,531
MVSU $3,664,800
Alcorn St $3,200,000

[introvertedGSUfan]

Schools in the SOCON who spent more money on Athletics than GSU:

1) App State
2) Elon
3) Samford
4) Wofford
5) The Citadel
6) Chattanooga
7) College of Charleston
8) Davidson

...yeah...that's AWFUL. I always knew GSU was cheap when it came to athletics, but we really need to step it up.

Yeah that is rather pathetic. I thought we'd be in the upper portion of the SoCon when it came to athletic finances.

[gophoenix]

Yeah that is rather pathetic. I thought we'd be in the upper portion of the SoCon when it came to athletic finances.

It really depends on how it is measured. If scholarships count towards this, then it is no wonder every private school is above you. Also curious if the fact that hope scholarship receivers don't count toward athletic paid scholarships, maybe that affects you bottom line number too?

[tribe_pride]

JMU shocks me. They have cut so many sports recently. I may be wrong but I thought they were near the minimum allowed at this point. How are they at $26 million?

[bobcatalum05]

Scholarships are part of the budget so it makes since for the Private schools to be higher than the Public.

[danefan]

I'm sorry, but Stony Brook is wasting an amazing amount of money on something.

They spend way too much money for no success in anything. Buffalo has a lower athletic budget and has an FBS football team.

[appfan2008]

12 mil for app... that is weak maybe i oughta give a few more mil next year and bump this program up!... i only have so much but a few more mil shouldnt hurt...





















































i wish

[ButlerGSU]

Delaware? Where's Georgetown spending all that money? xlolx
(About $7M on basketball, and $21M divided among 28 other sports.)

You have to think about how much tuition to the school is...each scholarship provided by the department cost that. That's one reason why GSU is about to operate on 10 million...Georgia Southern has great tuition and all GA kids that have a 3.0 are on HOPE scholarship paid for by the lottery.

[Hammersmith]

If you want a more detailed breakdown, go to:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

It's where bbstate gets its data from.


Also, to the UCA fan, your program is still transitioning to a full DI budget and the info from the two sites is over a year old. Combined, it makes your budget look much smaller than it will be once you've finished your transition. This was the first year NDSU was near its complete budget and SDSU still has a year or two to go(meaning the data in the report, not this actual season - confusing, head hurts).

edit: the OPE website is down at the moment, but it should be back up fairly soon

[JMU2004]

JMU shocks me. They have cut so many sports recently. I may be wrong but I thought they were near the minimum allowed at this point. How are they at $26 million?

The money that was saved from the cut sports (only about 500k if I remember correctly) was reallocated to bring all remaining sports to a fully funded level. For example, Mens tennis and golf were operating w/o scholarships, and are now fully funded with the NCAA max allowable scholarship ammont.

Long story short, we cut some sports in an effort to make the remaining programs stronger. Before the cuts, JMU had been sponsoring something like 28 NCAA D1 programs.

[Husky Alum]

Speaking on behalf of the many CPA's on this board.

One thing to keep in mind - many of these numbers aren't audited, and there's no way to determine consistency among what School A and School B include as a cost.

Suppose you build a new stadium, that's run by the facilities department and the debt is held in the name of the school.

Is the interest expense a cost of the athletic department?

Is the maintenance, depreciation, upkeep a cost of the athletic department?

The advertising that's in the stadium - does the revenue go to the athletic department or does it go to offset the cost of the stadium itself?

There's an inherent agency conflict whenever schools provide these numbers.

It's much like the owners and players in pro sports. The owners say they don't make any money on their teams, the players say they're full of crud. The owners give the players "audited" financial statements of the team, but the revenues and costs one would assume would be in there, many times aren't.

If you look at the legal structure of the Boston Red Sox, it's like reading an eye chart. The team itself can't make any money the way the organization is structures. There are more partnerships in their corporate structure than there are in Provincetown, MA.

[Kabooom]

NODAKERS.........

This site should jkeep you busy....On this site there is a secondary tab that allows you to compare one specific school to the other.....Enjoy...

http://www2.indystar.com/NCAA_financial_reports/expense_stat/show_school_comparison

[Big Al]

So students from Minnesota are considered in State?
At UNI In State is around 13,000 (for everything) and 21,000 for out of state.

Yeah, Minnesota and N Dakota (S Dakota, too, I believe) have reciprocity agreements where they all treat each other's kids as in-state students. Iowa doesn't because they don't want to give up the revenue at ISU (approx. 30% out of state) and UI (approx. 50%). UNI only has 7% out-of-state.

[Big Al]

I'm sorry, but Stony Brook is wasting an amazing amount of money on something.

They spend way too much money for no success in anything. Buffalo has a lower athletic budget and has an FBS football team.

They should probably cut the marksmanship program for pre-med students.. xeekx

[darell1976]

UND's budget is $12,645,629

[Go...gate]

Speaking on behalf of the many CPA's on this board.

One thing to keep in mind - many of these numbers aren't audited, and there's no way to determine consistency among what School A and School B include as a cost.

Suppose you build a new stadium, that's run by the facilities department and the debt is held in the name of the school.

Is the interest expense a cost of the athletic department?

Is the maintenance, depreciation, upkeep a cost of the athletic department?

The advertising that's in the stadium - does the revenue go to the athletic department or does it go to offset the cost of the stadium itself?

There's an inherent agency conflict whenever schools provide these numbers.

It's much like the owners and players in pro sports. The owners say they don't make any money on their teams, the players say they're full of crud. The owners give the players "audited" financial statements of the team, but the revenues and costs one would assume would be in there, many times aren't.

If you look at the legal structure of the Boston Red Sox, it's like reading an eye chart. The team itself can't make any money the way the organization is structures. There are more partnerships in their corporate structure than there are in Provincetown, MA.

Nice to know that the Patriot League will be adding some skilled NU CPA candidates to its fold in due course (just my two cents, but I just have a feeling that NU is going to be joining the club).

[DFW HOYA]

Suppose you build a new stadium, that's run by the facilities department and the debt is held in the name of the school. Is the interest expense a cost of the athletic department? Is the maintenance, depreciation, upkeep a cost of the athletic department? The advertising that's in the stadium - does the revenue go to the athletic department or does it go to offset the cost of the stadium itself?

Not a problem for Northeastern and Georgetown.

[89Hen]

1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty
So are people going to claim CAA and East Coast Bias on this top 10 too. :p

[dakotadan]

UND's budget is $12,645,629

And that was in our final season of DII. It is amazing that we were spending that much as a DII.

It'll be interesting to see what is reported for our first year as a DI and where we will end up at the end of our transition. 18million is the amount quoted the most by the University. But I have heard we may end up as high as 20million down the road depending upon what conference(s) our teams all end up in and if we are required to add any additional sports to meet conference criteria.

[REALBird]

Those figures of around 12.2 million for Illinois State sounds like they were correct about 2-3 years ago. I think last count had us somewhere between 12-14 million for our budget.

But keep in mind, in the State of Illinois NO public/private school receives funds from the State as part of their operating budgets.

So all monies raised for renovations to stadiums, new projects, scholarships, etc, are all done privately without money from the State. Kind of cripples you when you see other nearby states who throw money into their colleges athletic facilities.

[jmufan999]

So are people going to claim CAA and East Coast Bias on this top 10 too. :p

HAHAHA i was just waiting for it! hahahaha that's hilarious.

seriously though, how can you not show that list to recruits? the CAA spends money, and lots of it. money means new crap all the time... stadiums, jerseys, etc. it would matter to me if i was a HS athlete. well, depending on the sport. bball and football. not sure about the others.

[I-AA Fan]

I've been recently curious about this, just to see where a lot of different FCS schools are at with their athletic budgets. I'd like to know where all of you stand with athletic budgets, as far as the most recent year the data was available. I know NDSU's budget this year (08-09) was $12.2 million, so we're definitely not on top of that list. (We'd probably not even be on top of the D2 list in that regard.xoopsx)

I've heard that some of the Illinois MVFC schools such as SIU and Illinois State had something like twice the athletic budget of NDSU in recent years, although I'm not sure if that's true. I would bet some schools like Delaware, Appalachian State and Montana have much more huge budgets than people think.

So what's your school's athletic budget??

I would say that NDSU is right in the top within the MVFC, I think SIU is at almost 18m, while you are in third. The upper half of the MVFC is going to fall within 16m to 18m .these are basketball schools & SIU and MSU have high-powered women's programs in particular. School's like GU and Nova are big men's programs and will be in the 23m to 26m range ans they have so much tourney payout. YSU and ISU are at the bottom of the list ...as expected.

[coover]

HAHAHA i was just waiting for it! hahahaha that's hilarious.

seriously though, how can you not show that list to recruits? the CAA spends money, and lots of it. money means new crap all the time... stadiums, jerseys, etc. it would matter to me if i was a HS athlete. well, depending on the sport. bball and football. not sure about the others.

Yeah, and after seeing those figures, he'd go FBS, where the budgets are 3, 4, 5 times as high!

But most (not all) FCS athletes are not the big time guys expecting to go Pro after graduation. They are, for the most part, student athletes, who hope to benefit from the education and exposure they can get. Go to a school like Cal Poly or Richmond, and others ... it's the education. Other schools, which I will not mention here, will give exposure for further opportunities after graduation ("you played football at ...? Yeah, I can get you a job selling cars").

[ngineer]

Geez, Colgate and Lehigh spend a lot, and Colgate spends 4 or 5 million less than Lehigh! I was shocked to see that Colgate and Princeton are about even and Colgate sponsors fewer sports overall than PU.

We have a lot of intercollegiate sports--plus a tremendous intramural program. Were those costs included?

[I-AA Fan]

Yeah, and after seeing those figures, he'd go FBS, where the budgets are 3, 4, 5 times as high!

But most (not all) FCS athletes are not the big time guys expecting to go Pro after graduation. They are, for the most part, student athletes, who hope to benefit from the education and exposure they can get. Go to a school like Cal Poly or Richmond, and others ... it's the education. Other schools, which I will not mention here, will give exposure for further opportunities after graduation ("you played football at ...? Yeah, I can get you a job selling cars").

I would not be so insulting. You are Cal-poly-tech, not Caltech. Richmond? For what? This is not meant to be an insult; but in a state with Old Dominion, VMI, Vatech, JMU, William & Mary, George Mason, VCU, Longwood, Radford, and Wise? In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state.

Your players are a dumb as the rest of ours, and just as undeserving of academic scholarship. It is no different here in Ohio. My daughter is a chemE major at Ohio State, she could have gone to Case, or across the border to Carnegie (both far better engineering schools). However, if she moves out your way ...who ever heard of them? She loves living on campus, going to OSU games, night life, etc. She likes sitting in a stadium among 105k, as opposed to 1.05k . There is a reason there is student population of over 50k. I attended the second smallest DI school in Ohio, I am as proud of that as I am of her. We are here to talk football ...what does that have to do with education since the early 1900's? I guarantee you that Spider fans are not concerned with football players majors.

That being said ...can the Spiders repeat? How are the Mustangs going to be this year?

[LakesBison]

Originally Posted by darell1976
UND's budget is $12,645,629

with $10,000,000 of that being from a nazi loving casino man thats dead from vegas. Congrats!!!!

it's NOT smack, if its TRUE.

[bostonspider]

I would not be so insulting. You are Cal-poly-tech, not Caltech. Richmond? For what? This is not meant to be an insult; but in a state with Old Dominion, VMI, Vatech, JMU, William & Mary, George Mason, VCU, Longwood, Radford, and Wise? In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state. I guarantee you that Spider fans are not concerned with football players majors.

That being said ...can the Spiders repeat? How are the Mustangs going to be this year?

Umm, you need to do a little more research as to UR's academics I think. Richmond is very highly ranked, the only schools in the state that rival UR's current academic reputation are UVA, W&M and W&L. To compare UR to Longwood, GMU, VCU, Radford and Wise is just crazy if you want to discuss SAT's, GPA's, class rank and overall academic reputation. And UR fans do very much care that our players are not majoring in "Kinesiology" and "Sport Science" and the like, but rather "Economics", "English" and Political Science" . UR's football team, like W&M's, is well known for graduating their players even though there are not any "light" majors to hide them in.

[I-AA Fan]

Umm, you need to do a little more research as to UR's academics I think. Richmond is very highly ranked, the only schools in the state that rival UR's current academic reputation are UVA, W&M and W&L. To compare UR to Longwood, GMU, VCU, Radford and Wise is just crazy if you want to discuss SAT's, GPA's, class rank and overall academic reputation. And UR fans do very much care that our players are not majoring in "Kinesiology" and "Sport Science" and the like, but rather "Economics", "English" and Political Science" . UR's football team, like W&M's, is well known for graduating their players even though there are not any "light" majors to hide them in.

I am not going to argue academics, to each his own. I do not want to sound insulting to either SLO or UR, as I respect each team. I went to a school that was know as a commuter school. Well spoken ...clearly Richmond is a liberal arts college. The highest ranking programs at Richmond are GE (general studies) & leadership. Nothing personal, but if leadership was something I was seriously interested in, living in VA, and I was an American citizen ...I would be at VMI. Also, what is wrong with Kinesiology? It is a specialty taught at most medical colleges. Also VaTech is probably the most respected public school in the east ...in terms of science, engineering/architecture and agriculture. I would have more respect for a player in sports/physEd ...than general studies. Again, you do what you have to do. I just get upset with football fans thinking that their teams are some how better than an others because of some delusions of academic superiority. Heck my mother still thinks every player at Notre Dame is a future priest. She must have figured that Raghib "Rocket" Ismail was a convert. :o

[Franks Tanks]

I am not going to argue academics, to each his own. I do not want to sound insulting to either SLO or UR, as I respect each team. I went to a school that was know as a commuter school. Well spoken ...clearly Richmond is a liberal arts college. The highest ranking programs at Richmond are GE (general studies) & leadership. Nothing personal, but if leadership was something I was seriously interested in, living in VA, and I was an American citizen ...I would be at VMI. Also, what is wrong with Kinesiology? It is a specialty taught at most medical colleges. Also VaTech is probably the most respected public school in the east ...in terms of science, engineering/architecture and agriculture. I would have more respect for a player in sports/physEd ...than general studies. Again, you do what you have to do. I just get upset with football fans thinking that their teams are some how better than an others because of some delusions of academic superiority. Heck my mother still thinks every player at Notre Dame is a future priest. She must have figured that Raghib "Rocket" Ismail was a convert. :o


Typical ignorance surrounding top liberal arts colleges. Attending a top liberal arts college, like Richmond, is not akin to studying phys ed. There is nowhere to hide at small liberal arts colleges-- all courses are challenging and demanding even for top students. The subject matter of the class is less important as you are learning how to learn if you will. The subject is a vehicle and the construct through which education takes place. You learn how to understand complex information and material, make logical points and arguments, communicate effectively, and make logical well reasoned decisions.

A common quote states "education is what remains when you forget everything you learned in school" this is the essense of the Liberal arts education and Richmond does a damm fine job in this department.

UVA, William & Mary, Richmond, and Washington & Lee are great schools and stand out as the top teir schools in VA. Other VA schools may be very strong in certain areas, but the 4 mentioned above clearly stand out and above the others.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I am not going to argue academics, to each his own. I do not want to sound insulting to either SLO or UR, as I respect each team. I went to a school that was know as a commuter school. Well spoken ...clearly Richmond is a liberal arts college. The highest ranking programs at Richmond are GE (general studies) & leadership. Nothing personal, but if leadership was something I was seriously interested in, living in VA, and I was an American citizen ...I would be at VMI. Also, what is wrong with Kinesiology? It is a specialty taught at most medical colleges. Also VaTech is probably the most respected public school in the east ...in terms of science, engineering/architecture and agriculture. I would have more respect for a player in sports/physEd ...than general studies. Again, you do what you have to do. I just get upset with football fans thinking that their teams are some how better than an others because of some delusions of academic superiority. Heck my mother still thinks every player at Notre Dame is a future priest. She must have figured that Raghib "Rocket" Ismail was a convert. :o

You really don't have any idea what you are talking about, so you should just stop.

Here are some facts:

1- In the last Business Week Ranking, Richmond's business school was ranked #12 in the nation.
2- What is wrong with Kinesiology is the number of players that study Kinesiology with a Sports Management Concentration at another CAA school in Virginia. If you looked at the number of football players with that Major, as a % of all Majors at that school, you would laugh. The major at that school is clearly a joke.
3- The NCAA provides rankings and awards based on Academics. Our football team and others happened to be awarded recently. That is something to be proud of. It does make me think UR's football team is better than others.
4- VT is not the most respected Public School in the east. Have you ever heard of UVA, or UNC? Pick up USNews&World Report some time. You would be enlightened.

Please come back with some facts. And no, your grandmother's opinion about Notre Dame ... or any other school is not fact!

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Typical ignorance surrounding top liberal arts colleges. Attending a top liberal arts college, like Richmond, is not akin to studying phys ed. There is nowhere to hide at small liberal arts colleges-- all courses are challenging and demanding even for top students. The subject matter of the class is less important as you are learning how to learn if you will. The subject is a vehicle and the construct through which education takes place. You learn how to understand complex information and material, make logical points and arguments, communicate effectively, and make logical well reasoned decisions.

A common quote states "education is what remains when you forget everything you learned in school" this is the essense of the Liberal arts education and Richmond does a damm fine job in this department.

UVA, William & Mary, Richmond, and Washington & Lee are great schools and stand out as the top teir schools in VA. Other VA schools may be very strong in certain areas, but the 4 mentioned above clearly stand out and above the others.

Great post. You wrote it better than I did!

[Franks Tanks]

Great post. You wrote it better than I did!

When you major in Government & Sociology you get the "what are you gonna do with that" question on a regular basis so I figured I should come up with a good response.

Many people look at college as vocational school, and they struggle to see the value when the major isnt nursing, accounting, education, engineering or some other well defined field.

These are no doubt difficult majors and occupations that are vital to society, but they are focused on teaching the student a vocation not educating the student for a life of career changes and learning new things.

[OL FU]

Schools in the SOCON who spent more money on Athletics than GSU:

1) App State
2) Elon
3) Samford
4) Wofford
5) The Citadel
6) Chattanooga
7) College of Charleston
8) Davidson

...yeah...that's AWFUL. I always knew GSU was cheap when it came to athletics, but we really need to step it up.

You left Furman off at 15Mxnodxxsmiley_wix

And to answer some of the other questions according to the website for Furman $6M in athletic scholarship aide is included in the numbers. For GSU, $2M so it sounds like scholarships make the numbers a little less comparable.

[Eight Legger]

I would not be so insulting. You are Cal-poly-tech, not Caltech. Richmond? For what? This is not meant to be an insult; but in a state with Old Dominion, VMI, Vatech, JMU, William & Mary, George Mason, VCU, Longwood, Radford, and Wise? In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state.

Your players are a dumb as the rest of ours, and just as undeserving of academic scholarship. It is no different here in Ohio. My daughter is a chemE major at Ohio State, she could have gone to Case, or across the border to Carnegie (both far better engineering schools). However, if she moves out your way ...who ever heard of them? She loves living on campus, going to OSU games, night life, etc. She likes sitting in a stadium among 105k, as opposed to 1.05k . There is a reason there is student population of over 50k. I attended the second smallest DI school in Ohio, I am as proud of that as I am of her. We are here to talk football ...what does that have to do with education since the early 1900's? I guarantee you that Spider fans are not concerned with football players majors.

That being said ...can the Spiders repeat? How are the Mustangs going to be this year?


Excuse me while I try to regain my composure over this. I believe this is the first and probably last time I have ever heard someone proclaim Longwood, GMU and Radford to be academically superior to anything, much less UR.

[mcveyrl]

1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget

Surprised by 8,9, and 10. Good for them (I guess).


2- What is wrong with Kinesiology is the number of players that study Kinesiology with a Sports Management Concentration at another CAA school in Virginia. If you looked at the number of football players with that Major, as a % of all Majors at that school, you would laugh. The major at that school is clearly a joke.



I know of which school you speak (actually if you were trying to be discreet, you failed). And, as a booster that receives monthly player bios, this pandemic is not exclusive to the football team. It is university wide.

I think this happens at a lot of schools, by the way. Do you know the predominant major for other conference teams, or just JMU?

Also, how do you know the Kinesiology degree is a joke? It's a major for a reason, right? It's not preposterous that a higher percentage of athletes that excel at and like sports would be drawn to that degree (particularly one with a concentration in sports management) over the normal student. Many players at this level have the aspiration to be coaches. Having said that, I personally wish there were less athletes with this major, although it's better than the old stand by - Sociology.

Regardless, I can say that the major/degree is what you make of it (like anything else, regardless of the major or what kind of scholarship you have). I went to law school with a guy that played left tackle for the team, has a degree in Kinesiology, and he's now a successful attorney in Va. Beach.

[Franks Tanks]

I would not be so insulting. You are Cal-poly-tech, not Caltech. Richmond? For what? This is not meant to be an insult; but in a state with Old Dominion, VMI, Vatech, JMU, William & Mary, George Mason, VCU, Longwood, Radford, and Wise? In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state.

Your players are a dumb as the rest of ours, and just as undeserving of academic scholarship. It is no different here in Ohio. My daughter is a chemE major at Ohio State, she could have gone to Case, or across the border to Carnegie (both far better engineering schools). However, if she moves out your way ...who ever heard of them? She loves living on campus, going to OSU games, night life, etc. She likes sitting in a stadium among 105k, as opposed to 1.05k . There is a reason there is student population of over 50k. I attended the second smallest DI school in Ohio, I am as proud of that as I am of her. We are here to talk football ...what does that have to do with education since the early 1900's? I guarantee you that Spider fans are not concerned with football players majors.

That being said ...can the Spiders repeat? How are the Mustangs going to be this year?

Also Cal Poly is a very good school, they admit less than 40% of their applicants and the admit score of incoming students are very high.

Everybody who knows anything about higher education is familiar with Case and CMU.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Surprised by 8,9, and 10. Good for them (I guess).




I know of which school you speak (actually if you were trying to be discreet, you failed). And, as a booster that receives monthly player bios, this pandemic is not exclusive to the football team. It is university wide.

I think this happens at a lot of schools, by the way. Do you know the predominant major for other conference teams, or just JMU?

Also, how do you know the Kinesiology degree is a joke? It's a major for a reason, right? It's not preposterous that a higher percentage of athletes that excel at and like sports would be drawn to that degree (particularly one with a concentration in sports management) over the normal student. Many players at this level have the aspiration to be coaches. Having said that, I personally wish there were less athletes with this major, although it's better than the old stand by - Sociology.

Regardless, I can say that the major/degree is what you make of it (like anything else, regardless of the major or what kind of scholarship you have). I went to law school with a guy that played left tackle for the team, has a degree in Kinesiology, and he's now a successful attorney in Va. Beach.

You are right. There are exceptions to every rule and I shouldn't be judgemental. No doubt.

That said, it is quite an interesting trend.

Regarding the 'predominant major' of other conference teams, I don't know. I know Richmond doesn't seem to have 'predominant major'. It was something I just noticed when I looked at JMU's roster last Fall. Do you know the answer?

[DFW HOYA]

Also VaTech is probably the most respected public school in the east ...in terms of science, engineering/architecture and agriculture.

Most respected public school in the East ? That's Cornell ... xnodx (Yes, it's partially state funded.)

VPI is a good school (and Carnegie Research Tier I) but without AAU recognition (which Virginia, UNC, Rutgers, Maryland, Pitt, Penn State and two SUNY schools have) , it's not in the top tier of state-funded research universities.

[mcveyrl]

You are right. There are exceptions to every rule and I shouldn't be judgemental. No doubt.

That said, it is quite an interesting trend.

Regarding the 'predominant major' of other conference teams, I don't know. I know Richmond doesn't seem to have 'predominant major'. It was something I just noticed when I looked at JMU's roster last Fall. Do you know the answer?

No, I don't. That was an honest question. JMU is one of the only schools that lists every players major from what I could tell. I just looked at the team websites, though. Is there another source?

[T-Dog]

Schools in the SOCON who spent more money on Athletics than GSU:

1) App State
2) Elon
3) Samford
4) Wofford
5) The Citadel
6) Chattanooga
7) College of Charleston
8) Davidson

...yeah...that's AWFUL. I always knew GSU was cheap when it came to athletics, but we really need to step it up.

Funny thing is, here's how the SoCon ranks in men's basketball spending which should shock a few people.


1) $1,708,708 Davidson
2) $1,397,223 Chattanooga
3) $1,345,363 College of Charleston
4) $1,177,277 Furman
5) $1,152,360 Samford
6) $1,134,593 The Citadel
7) $914,456 North Carolina-Greensboro
8) $884,928 Elon
9) $796,894 Western Carolina
10) $692,117 Wofford
11) $646,299 Appalachian State
12) $635,261 Georgia Southern

App's thrifty when it comes to men's basketball. Kind of odd for the school with the biggest athletic budget in the conference.

However, it comes down to one fact. App funds TWENTY (20) Varsity sports and it could be 22 very soon (men's and women's cycling are applying for Varsity status and probably will get it due to being self-sufficient with sponsorships). Top that with the football budget and it pushes us to #1 on the SoCon budget list.

I would like to see a list of # of Varsity sports by school. App would be pretty high up there. For comparison, Southern California has 19. UCLA, the all-time NCAA Title leader, has 22 Varsity sports.

[GannonFan]

When you major in Government & Sociology you get the "what are you gonna do with that" question on a regular basis so I figured I should come up with a good response.

Many people look at college as vocational school, and they struggle to see the value when the major isnt nursing, accounting, education, engineering or some other well defined field.

These are no doubt difficult majors and occupations that are vital to society, but they are focused on teaching the student a vocation not educating the student for a life of career changes and learning new things.


Just a little dispute on that. Engineering programs are, by their very nature, not vocational-type educations. They are typically the epitome of educating a student to learn how to solve problems that have never been solved before. It's a common misnomer that engineers just take static formulas and perform rote duties. Hardly the case.

[Franks Tanks]

Just a little dispute on that. Engineering programs are, by their very nature, not vocational-type educations. They are typically the epitome of educating a student to learn how to solve problems that have never been solved before. It's a common misnomer that engineers just take static formulas and perform rote duties. Hardly the case.

Whatever dude-- the idea is that certain material must be covered and learned to a certain proficiency to become an engineer in a certain field.

[dgreco]

Funny thing is, here's how the SoCon ranks in men's basketball spending which should shock a few people.



App's thrifty when it comes to men's basketball. Kind of odd for the school with the biggest athletic budget in the conference.

However, it comes down to one fact. App funds TWENTY (20) Varsity sports and it could be 22 very soon (men's and women's cycling are applying for Varsity status and probably will get it due to being self-sufficient with sponsorships). Top that with the football budget and it pushes us to #1 on the SoCon budget list.

I would like to see a list of # of Varsity sports by school. App would be pretty high up there. For comparison, Southern California has 19. UCLA, the all-time NCAA Title leader, has 22 Varsity sports.
The Ivies would all be in the top 10 I think. Then you would see a lot of "midsize-smaller" schools. Schools not always playing for championships seem to sponsor a lot of sports. Of course there are a few exceptions (Nebraska has a lot and Penn State)

[I-AA Fan]

When you major in Government & Sociology you get the "what are you gonna do with that" question on a regular basis so I figured I should come up with a good response.

Many people look at college as vocational school, and they struggle to see the value when the major isnt nursing, accounting, education, engineering or some other well defined field.

These are no doubt difficult majors and occupations that are vital to society, but they are focused on teaching the student a vocation not educating the student for a life of career changes and learning new things.

I guess I am ignorant then, because I do not consider anything in Liberal Arts to be "higher" education. Or at least something that should be taught in an undergrad program. Is this not why law school grads are granted a Juris Doctorate as opposed to a masters? It is a professional degree. Yet, in most law schools, students with a degree in science are granted the option for a masters in law ...a higher-level degree than a juris doctor. Just because we no longer have teaching colleges (that is considered sexist), make a liberal arts curriculum (particularly undergrad) any less rhetorical ...thus if taught to a non-professionally educated person (math/science) rendered useless by lack of application. As to professional college being a vocational school, that is a terrible thing to say. Most undergraduate studies are (and all should be) math/science related. My father happens to be a college professor/dean. His undergrad degree is a bachelors of science, and as with most colleges/universities, the doctorate is granted in philosophy. There is a pretense that the professional portion of the field studied has already been learned, and thus a more philosophical approach is warranted in order to advance the individual's thinking process toward application of his profession. With out any fundamental professional education, what is there to advance? Then yes, liberal art's do have a place. So please, who is being ignorant now? Also I am well aware of Richmond's business school. Heck I wish I could have afforded to go there. It had an 82.3% average on the CPA first charter exam last year ...which is well-above average. So please, stop acting like people are idiots because they say something you do not want to hear. Some people discuss how to go to the moon, while other discuss why. The real question is whether an individual that lacks the education to place a man on the moon has a right to influence decision-makers. The college I went to offered a BS or a BA in Economics. What is the difference? I took Calc 1, 2, 3, and 4 ...advanced statistical analysis ...and advanced finite mathematical theory. Guess which degree I have? I am a football fan, not a player; therefore I have no right to question a coaches decision. I did not like that my team had a losing record last year, but this does not make them a good football team. Besides, the reason I brought this up was to put the threads emphasis back into sports, and lose the "high and mighty" attitudes I read in this thread.

[blukeys]

No, I don't. That was an honest question. JMU is one of the only schools that lists every players major from what I could tell. I just looked at the team websites, though. Is there another source?

Delaware lists all of its football players' majors on its game day program. I don't know if it is on website as I never needed to go anywhere but the game day program for the last 40 years or so.

[mcveyrl]

Delaware lists all of its football players' majors on its game day program. I don't know if it is on website as I never needed to go anywhere but the game day program for the last 40 years or so.

It looks like Delaware has it listed in the "Personal" section of their bios. A random sampling shows they have their share of Kinesiology-type majors (different names, same idea), but not as prevalent as JMU.

I still think a lot of it comes down to these guys wanting to get in to coaching when they get out and it's not necessarily indicative of a joke degree.

[Franks Tanks]

I guess I am ignorant then, because I do not consider anything in Liberal Arts to be "higher" education. Or at least something that should be taught in an undergrad program. Is this not why law school grads are granted a Juris Doctorate as opposed to a masters? It is a professional degree. Yet, in most law schools, students with a degree in science are granted the option for a masters in law ...a higher-level degree than a juris doctor. Just because we no longer have teaching colleges (that is considered sexist), make a liberal arts curriculum (particularly undergrad) any less rhetorical ...thus if taught to a non-professionally educated person (math/science) rendered useless by lack of application. As to professional college being a vocational school, that is a terrible thing to say. Most undergraduate studies are (and all should be) math/science related. My father happens to be a college professor/dean. His undergrad degree is a bachelors of science, and as with most colleges/universities, the doctorate is granted in philosophy. There is a pretense that the professional portion of the field studied has already been learned, and thus a more philosophical approach is warranted in order to advance the individual's thinking process toward application. With out any fundamental professional education, what is there to advance? Then yes, liberal art's do have a place. So please, who is being ignorant now? Also I am well aware of Richmond's business school. Heck I wish I could have afforded to go there. It had an 82.3% average on the CPA first charter exam last year ...which is well-above average. So please, stop acting like people are idiots because they say something you do not want to hear. Some people discuss how to go to the moon, while other discuss why. The real question is whether an individual that lacks the education to place a man on the moon has a right to influence decision-makers. I am a football fan, therefore I have no right to question a coaches decision. I did not like that my team had a losing record last year, but this does not make them a good football team. Besides, the reason I brought this up was to put the threads emphasis back into sports, and lose the "high and mighty" attitudes I read in this thread.

I dont even know where to start

"It is a professional degree. Yet, in most law schools, students with a degree in science are granted the option for a masters in law ...a higher-level degree than a juris doctor"

3 years at a law school gives you a JD, and it is totally irrelevant what your undergrad major may be. There is nothing "higher level" than a JD. You can study other specialities and recieve a degree like a masters in tax law for example, but it is just a specialization that works in conjunction with the JD. If I am incorrect one of our attorney friends here can set me straight.

"Some people discuss how to go to the moon, while other discuss why. The real question is whether an individual that lacks the education to place a man on the moon has a right to influence decision-makers"

That is the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time frankly. Discussing the why rather than the how is usually the more difficult question. Is it more difficult to create a nuclear weapon, or understand the correct time to use one?

Also virtually every leader has a broad based education that enables them to evaluate all sides and make smart decisions. Kennedy couldnt build a rocket, but he had the foresight to understand why it was important. He was also one of the promiminent figures in 20th century american history. JFK was an international affairs major at Harvard-- so I guess you are saying he didnt have the right to ask NASA to put a man on the moon.

Top Liberal arts colleges have extremely successful alums and very high grad school/job placement rates. They understand how to think and process new information. I would challenge you to look at the majors of US Presidents, CEO's, and other prominent individuals. I would venture a guess that the majority studied a "liberal arts" subject as an undergrad.

Also the "liberal arts" education is the essense of higher education. Again education is learning how to think and reason, its quite different from learning a trade.

[mcveyrl]

I dont even know where to start

"It is a professional degree. Yet, in most law schools, students with a degree in science are granted the option for a masters in law ...a higher-level degree than a juris doctor"

3 years at a law school gives you a JD, and it is totally irrelevant what your undergrad major may be. There is nothing "higher level" than a JD. You can study other specialities and recieve a degree like a masters in tax law for example, but it is just a specialization that works in conjunction with the JD. If I am incorrect one of our attorney friends here can set me straight.

.

That's correct. Everybody gets a J.D. and then you can go on to get your LLM in a specialization.

[GannonFan]

Whatever dude-- the idea is that certain material must be covered and learned to a certain proficiency to become an engineer in a certain field.

As I said, dude, your knowledge of what goes into an engineering degree and then how it is used is misguided. Not an atypical mistake for a liberal arts major, though. xpeacex

[Franks Tanks]

As I said, dude, your knowledge of what goes into an engineering degree and then how it is used is misguided. Not an atypical mistake for a liberal arts major, though. xpeacex

I understand what you are saying, but most engineers are not thinking outside of the box on a regular basis. Most apply their craft to manufacturing a product or what have you. Design engineers make up a rather small % of engineers as I understand it.

Engineers are some of the smartest people out there, but you have to spend a lot of time learning the skills to become an engineer in a certain area.

[GannonFan]

I understand what you are saying, but most engineers are not thinking outside of the box on a regular basis. Most apply their craft to manufacturing a product or what have you. Design engineers make up a rather small % of engineers as I understand it.

Engineers are some of the smartest people out there, but you have to spend a lot of time learning the skills to become an engineer in a certain area.

But what I'm saying, from actually being an engineer and working with other engineers, is that you never deal with the same situation and almost always, then, you are thinking outside of the box. And to take the point you made that liberal arts teaches you how to "think", my point was, since very little if anything of what an engineer learns in school in a classic engineering program is what they later use everday on the job, the best engineering programs, then, are the ones that teach a student how to excel in situations and problem solving where there is not already an answer and that's done by being good at "thinking".

There's certainly a stereotype of what engineers do and I felt you were feeding into that by classifying it as a vocational education, meaning you learn what you need to learn in school and then go and use it. That's simply not engineering.

[GannonFan]

It looks like Delaware has it listed in the "Personal" section of their bios. A random sampling shows they have their share of Kinesiology-type majors (different names, same idea), but not as prevalent as JMU.

I still think a lot of it comes down to these guys wanting to get in to coaching when they get out and it's not necessarily indicative of a joke degree.

Really? Who are you looking at? I see tons of UD guys in finance or marketing, hotel and restuarant majors, even a fair number in civil engineering. And of course, there are some AG students as well (pretty decent farming school, if that's your thing). Considering UD's got a pretty good physical therapy school (grad school is excellent) I thought it was odd how few are Kinesiology-type majors.

[Franks Tanks]

But what I'm saying, from actually being an engineer and working with other engineers, is that you never deal with the same situation and almost always, then, you are thinking outside of the box. And to take the point you made that liberal arts teaches you how to "think", my point was, since very little if anything of what an engineer learns in school in a classic engineering program is what they later use everday on the job, the best engineering programs, then, are the ones that teach a student how to excel in situations and problem solving where there is not already an answer and that's done by being good at "thinking".

There's certainly a stereotype of what engineers do and I felt you were feeding into that by classifying it as a vocational education, meaning you learn what you need to learn in school and then go and use it. That's simply not engineering.

I was mistaken to use engineering in the vocation example-- I retract my statement :D

But thanks for understand what I am saying. As you descirbe you may not use a ton of what was learned in school, but you learned to solve engineering problems in the proper context. That is an education, and it can certainly also be had in science disclipines, but it doesnt always occur that way I suspect.

[I-AA Fan]

As I said, dude, your knowledge of what goes into an engineering degree and then how it is used is misguided. Not an atypical mistake for a liberal arts major, though. xpeacex

Don't worry GannonFan, he clearly has no clue.

Kennedy was the second worst president in post-1900 US history ...so what more can you expect? Anyone that discusses education and fails to acknowledge the difference between a professional doctorate and a doctorate of philosophy? At least you should know one is 3-years and the other is 4. In the US, a PHD in law is awarded an LLD (honorary), or a PHD/JSD. If you do not have a JD from an accredited US school of law, you can obtain an MS, or an MPS in law. Again this is supposed to be a football board.

Let me further explain that a degree in general studies requires no concentration, as the GE is considered a concentration. So, if I am a jock, I can take 3-years worth of freshman-level classes and then jump to the NFL. A smaller school that teaches reading, writing and arithmetic offers a much smaller place to hide. That is why most good players go to bigger schools, they can major in advanced underwater basket weaving and play for 4-years. Then all of these wonderful majors offer more students, and thus a larger athletic budget; which is what the thread is supposed to be about. Now you may think that sports science is an easy major ...and maybe it is. However, it does require specific coursework.

[Franks Tanks]

Don't worry GannonFan, he clearly has no clue.

Kennedy was the second worst president in post-1900 US history ...so what more can you expect? Anyone that discusses education and fails to acknowledge the difference between a professional doctorate and a doctorate of philosophy? At least you should know one is 3-years and the other is 4. In the US, a PHD in law is awarded an LLD (honorary), or a PHD/JSD. If you do not have a JD from an accredited US school of law, you can obtain an MS, or an MPS in law. Again this is supposed to be a football board.

Let me further explain that a degree in general studies requires no concentration, as the GE is considered a concentration. So, if I am a jock, I can take 3-years worth of freshman-level classes and then jump to the NFL. A smaller school that teaches reading, writing and arithmetic offers a much smaller place to hide. That is why most good players go to bigger schools, they can major in advanced underwater basket weaving and play for 4-years. Then all of these wonderful majors offer more students, and thus a larger athletic budget


Well lets look at Barack Obama and virtually every other pres or govt. leader. Lots have majored in Political Science or other such majors. It is not a "general studies" major but a major within the Liberal Arts discipline. Any school worth anything makes you take higher level classes in some discipline, no matter what that is.

Congrats you know what the requirement for PHD's are in differing disclipines-- that is neither here nor there.

I really dont think you understand what the definition of "Libral Arts College" really is-- I suggest you look it up.

LAC's are schools such as Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Richmond, Furman. Wofford, Davison-- there is no hiding at any of these schools. You cannot get by while taking a bunch of intro classes, you have to declare a major and take higher level classes.

Intro classes are rather irrevelant anyway as intro classes at Lafayette were just as demanding as "upper level classes"

All classes are demanding and they expect a ton out of you no matter what-- that is the difference.

At some large schools you may be able to slip by with a "general concentration" but that certainly isnt the case at any liberal school worth anything

[art vandelay]

I assume the two Ice Hockey & skiing teams with equipment are expensive for us.

UNH also has a gymnastics team witch is an expensive sport but very worth it and very fun to watch.:D

[AmsterBison]

FrankTanks: "You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a #@&*in education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library?"

[DFW HOYA]

I'm not sure why all this liberal arts talk began--there are some very good liberal arts school and there are those which are not. There are plenty of liberal arts colleges which aren't very demanding, just as there are universities which fit that bill.

And a reply to the juris doctor discussion--the original degree for attorneys was the LL.B (bachelor of laws), when a college degree wasn't required to attend. Going to the J.D. provided the concept of a terminal degree (i.e., no more degrees required to hold the job) but there are still LL.M and other post-graduate law courses out there.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm not sure why all this liberal arts talk began--there are some very good liberal arts school and there are those which are not. There are plenty of liberal arts colleges which aren't very demanding, just as there are universities which fit that bill.

And a reply to the juris doctor discussion--the original degree for attorneys was the LL.B (bachelor of laws), when a college degree wasn't required to attend. Going to the J.D. provided the concept of a terminal degree (i.e., no more degrees required to hold the job) but there are still LL.M and other post-graduate law courses out there.


I-AA fan suggested that FB players at Richmond somehow take easy classes because they attend a liberal arts college.

[OL FU]

I-AA fan suggested that FB players at Richmond somehow take easy classes because they attend a liberal arts college.

Which is first time in my life I had heard that Richmond might be an easy degreexlolx

Stayed out of the argument and I generally stay out of academic arguments since what one gets from a degree depends on the effort one puts into getting it.

[Franks Tanks]

Which is first time in my life I had heard that Richmond might be an easy degreexlolx

Stayed out of the argument and I generally stay out of academic arguments since what one gets from a degree depends on the effort one puts into getting it.

That is certainly true, but having attended Furman I think you would agree that you just cant slide through.

Not every class and every major is equally as difficult, but there is simply nowhere to hide at a school like Rochmond or Furman, no matter what major.

I-AA fan implies that being an English major at a school like Richmond is easy, and that is ismply not the truth. Ive was assigned 15 novels for a 15 week semester at an intro English class at Lafayette-- I am sure Richmond would be a similar experience.

[OL FU]

That is certainly true, but having attended Furman I think you would agree that you just cant slide through.

Not every class and every major is equally as difficult, but there is simply nowhere to hide at a school like Rochmond or Furman, no matter what major.

I-AA fan implies that being an English major at a school like Richmond is easy, and that is ismply not the truth. Ive was assigned 15 novels for a 15 week semester at an intro English class at Lafayette-- I am sure Richmond would be a similar experience.

Yes, if he implied that attending Richmond is easy then he has a large misconception about highly regarded liberal arts schools. Some of the most intelligent people I know attending South Carolina. But I also know many who attending South Carolina and only learned to drink a case of beer a day. If someone tells you they graduated from Furman or Wofford, etc. then you know they worked for their degree. xnodx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Besides, the reason I brought this up was to put the threads emphasis back into sports, and lose the "high and mighty" attitudes I read in this thread.

Take note that you are the one that made this into an academic conversation when you responded to Poster 'Coover's post.

[gophoenix]

Funny thing is, here's how the SoCon ranks in men's basketball spending which should shock a few people.



App's thrifty when it comes to men's basketball. Kind of odd for the school with the biggest athletic budget in the conference.

However, it comes down to one fact. App funds TWENTY (20) Varsity sports and it could be 22 very soon (men's and women's cycling are applying for Varsity status and probably will get it due to being self-sufficient with sponsorships). Top that with the football budget and it pushes us to #1 on the SoCon budget list.

I would like to see a list of # of Varsity sports by school. App would be pretty high up there. For comparison, Southern California has 19. UCLA, the all-time NCAA Title leader, has 22 Varsity sports.

So App is adding cycling, that is great (I am a big cyclist). Elon, Furman, Davidson, Western and a few others are rumored to be adding Lacrosse (Women's first, then Men's).

Number of Sports:
App: 20
Furman: 18
Wofford: 17 (counts M&W Rifle)
Samford: 17
Elon: 16
The Citadel: 16 (counts M&W Rifle)
GSU: 15
UTC: 15
WCU: 14

Technically speaking, Cheerleading is varsity (and paid for by the athletics budget) at:
Furman (M&W)
App (M&W)
Elon (M&W)
The Citadel (W)
Samford (W)
Wofford (W)
Western (M&W)
GSU (M&W)
UTC (W)

And then, in many cases, the Marching Band is either partially funded or fully funded by athletics department (not to mention breaks up into a supported pep band for basketball games):
Furman - M&W Full Marching Band
App - M&W Full Marching Band
Elon - M&W Full Marching Band
Western - M&W Full Marching Band
GSU - M&W Full Marching Band
UTC - M&W Full Marching Band
The Citadel - M&W Pep Band
Samford - M&W Pep Band
Wofford - No Band

SoCon Athletic Spending:
Furman $15,088,237
App $12,432,311
Elon $11,604,188
Samford $11,535,908
Wofford $11,181,633
The Citadel $10,607,744
UTC $10,419,722
Davidson $9,527,857
Georgia Southern $9,115,450
WCU $8,420,164

So, it is a combination of number of sports offered, types of sports offered, support structure (cheerleading/band), cost of scholarships and cost of facilities maintenance (not facilities building as that seems to denote from capital expenditures of the school, not the AD in this report).

[ur2k]

I would not be so insulting. You are Cal-poly-tech, not Caltech. Richmond? For what? This is not meant to be an insult; but in a state with Old Dominion, VMI, Vatech, JMU, William & Mary, George Mason, VCU, Longwood, Radford, and Wise? In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state.

Your players are a dumb as the rest of ours, and just as undeserving of academic scholarship. It is no different here in Ohio. My daughter is a chemE major at Ohio State, she could have gone to Case, or across the border to Carnegie (both far better engineering schools). However, if she moves out your way ...who ever heard of them? She loves living on campus, going to OSU games, night life, etc. She likes sitting in a stadium among 105k, as opposed to 1.05k . There is a reason there is student population of over 50k. I attended the second smallest DI school in Ohio, I am as proud of that as I am of her. We are here to talk football ...what does that have to do with education since the early 1900's? I guarantee you that Spider fans are not concerned with football players majors.

That being said ...can the Spiders repeat? How are the Mustangs going to be this year?

To help BHCE - here's where it went off the rails.

This is my favorite - "In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state."

Um, ok xthumbsupx

[mcveyrl]

To help BHCE - here's where it went off the rails.

This is my favorite - "In terms of academic reputation, Richmond has a long way to go to be in the upper-half in their own state."

Um, ok xthumbsupx

Yea, I'm certainly not a fan of Richmond by any stretch of the imagination, but that also made me (out loud at my desk) go "uhhhh...wha?"

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

New thread idea: Who gets the most bang for their buck on spending? Is there any elite FCS program that has expenditures lower than GSU? xnodx

[OL FU]

New thread idea: Who gets the most bang for their buck on spending? Is there any elite FCS program that has expenditures lower than GSU? xnodx

Is GSU still an elite FCS program:p:p


















For that matter is Furmanxbawlingx



xsmiley_wix

[darell1976]

Originally Posted by darell1976
UND's budget is $12,645,629

with $10,000,000 of that being from a nazi loving casino man thats dead from vegas. Congrats!!!!

it's NOT smack, if its TRUE.

Jealous that UND gets more money than the AG College?? I wonder how much money NDSU is saving by kicking all those troublemakers off its football team.xlolx

[TheBisonator]

Jealous that UND gets more money than the AG College?? I wonder how much money NDSU is saving by kicking all those troublemakers off its football team.xlolx

und's budget is slightly higher due to having more sports and a 4 million dollar hockey program.

If you look at the money each school spends on football and basketball only, I'm sure NDSU is way out in front.

And don't knock land-grant universities if you plan on having dinner tonight.

[darell1976]

und's budget is slightly higher due to having more sports and a 4 million dollar hockey program.

If you look at the money each school spends on football and basketball only, I'm sure NDSU is way out in front.

And don't knock land-grant universities if you plan on having dinner tonight.


I'm just saying that Ralph Engelstad has nothing to do with the Sioux's budget. Even before UND named its old arena The Ralph Engelstad Arena they won 5 national championships. UND sports does fine without Ralph Engelstad and they do fine with his generous donations.

[LakesBison]

HA HA. COLLEGE HOCKEY?!

YOUR TEAM is 60-70% CANADIANS in a sport with 58 college teams. give us a break!!


YES, without RALPH ENGELSTAD nazi-loving, prairie ni___ calling benefactor, you guys would be a division 3 school with a CANADIAN HOCKEY TEAM playing 1 game every 3rd year on ESPN 2

[darell1976]

HA HA. COLLEGE HOCKEY?!

YOUR TEAM is 60-70% CANADIANS in a sport with 58 college teams. give us a break!!


YES, without RALPH ENGELSTAD nazi-loving, prairie ni___ calling benefactor, you guys would be a division 3 school with a CANADIAN HOCKEY TEAM playing 1 game every 3rd year on ESPN 2

UND won 5 national title in a building called the Winter Sports Center. Then after it became the Ralph Engelstad Arena UND won 2 more titles in 97 and 01. Then the new Ralph was built. So how would we be a Division 3 school if the new Ralph and his donations didn't exist???? As for Canadians...so what every school in college hockey uses Canadians some more than others. Does it matter? Is there any Canadians on an NDSU team if so better deport them north right.

[LakesBison]

No Canadians, but NDSU doesnt have a sport where about 5% of the USA follows. (thats being generous) maybe wrestling I guess.

UND has nothing cept a canadian hockey team, and thats why they even have a athletic budget.

[dlsiouxfan]

Lakesbison is just jealous that UND can fund their athletic department with existing resources while Chapman continues to run his using the state's credit card.

By the way has NDSU found a donor for the BSA yet? Oh well I guess the search continues.

[terrierbob]

I may have missed it. Which school has the highest budget?

[dlsiouxfan]

I believe it was Georgetown or possibly one of the other PFL schools.

[darell1976]

No Canadians, but NDSU doesnt have a sport where about 5% of the USA follows. (thats being generous) maybe wrestling I guess.

UND has nothing cept a canadian hockey team, and thats why they even have a athletic budget.

No Canadians?? Well according to gobison.com your baseball team has 2, and there are 3 in women's soccer. UND out of 25 players in Men's hockey only 13 are Canadian..lets see here so 12 out of 25 Americans..thats more than 5%, and UND has only 8 out of 22 players that are Canadian on their Women's hockey team again not 5%.
BTW UND has Zero Canadians on our baseball team.xlolx

[Gordon Shumway]

UNH also has a gymnastics team witch is an expensive sport but very worth it and very fun to watch.:D

All those numbers being posted for athletic budgets need to be scrutinized a little further. Anyone that believes UNH is spending $23M on its athletic teams needs to step away from the crack pipe. There is some accounting legerdemain of the highest order going on here. If you look at the institutional site listed earlier, it will be quite obvious. After they list all the expenses by team, they add in a generic line called "not allocated by gender/sport". Financial aid, recruiting, and operating expenses are $10M, unidentified expenses seem to be $5M, and the unexplained generic line is $8M. And then to add to the credibility of the numbers, it says that total revenue is $23M. xlolx xlolx I looked at several other CAA schools, and they are all affected by the same type accounting.

[NU Hound29]

HA HA. COLLEGE HOCKEY?!

YOUR TEAM is 60-70% CANADIANS in a sport with 58 college teams. give us a break!!


YES, without RALPH ENGELSTAD nazi-loving, prairie ni___ calling benefactor, you guys would be a division 3 school with a CANADIAN HOCKEY TEAM playing 1 game every 3rd year on ESPN 2

Okay now calm down. College hockey is a revenue generating sport. In fact the most recent Frozen Four Championship (18,512) OUTDREW the most recent I-AA championship game (17,823) so lets not start blasting a sport you clearly know nothing about.

Next year's championship game is being held a Ford Field where they are expecting close to 70k...wonder when that kind of crowd will show up in Chatty?

Get a life man...

[darell1976]

Okay now calm down. College hockey is a revenue generating sport. In fact the most recent Frozen Four Championship (18,512) OUTDREW the most recent I-AA championship game (17,823) so lets not start blasting a sport you clearly know nothing about.

Next year's championship game is being held a Ford Field where they are expecting close to 70k...wonder when that kind of crowd will show up in Chatty?

Get a life man...

xthumbsupx Great post NU Hound29!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D Maybe we could meet at the Frozen Four next year.

[NU Hound29]

xthumbsupx Great post NU Hound29!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D Maybe we could meet at the Frozen Four next year.

You paying my way? Hahaha

Damn economy....

[terrierbob]

Georgetown?

[SDFS]

HA HA. COLLEGE HOCKEY?!

YOUR TEAM is 60-70% CANADIANS in a sport with 58 college teams. give us a break!!


YES, without RALPH ENGELSTAD nazi-loving, prairie ni___ calling benefactor, you guys would be a division 3 school with a CANADIAN HOCKEY TEAM playing 1 game every 3rd year on ESPN 2

Funny, I thought that you wanted college hockey at NDSU a month ago.