Loyola College Football?

[andy7171]

LFN! Run with it!

New lacrosse/soccer stadium in Baltimore...
http://loyola.edu/IAC/renderings/

[Franks Tanks]

LFN! Run with it!

New lacrosse/soccer stadium in Baltimore...
http://loyola.edu/IAC/renderings/

He wrote an article last year about Loyola joining the PL!

[andy7171]

He wrote an article last year about Loyola joining the PL!

I know. I just saw that the new stadium in under construction and remembered his article.

For the record, LC is perfectly content with being a soccer/basketball/lax school.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's a link to my posting last year on the subject - which, largely speaking, still reflects the landscape today (just don't pay attention to that "Patriot League having a better basketball RPI than the MAAC thing" xlolx ):

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2008/06/next-patriot-league-member-loyola-md.html

They indeed are impressive plans. I still continue to believe that schools don't just build 6,000 seat stadiums just to host lacrosse and soccer games.

And I think Loyola would fit perfectly in the Patriot League footprint, with built-in regional rivals in football (Georgetown), like-minded institutions in football (Fordham, Holy Cross) and regional rivals in other sports (American, Navy).

If Fordham decides to go independent, you could see a full-court press by the Patriot League to go after both Loyola and Marist. Loyola's value to the Patriot League goes up significantly, IMO, if they choose to start up football.

[Husky Alum]

Hard to tell by the drawings, but is there room on the "other" side to add seats, if need be?

Must admit, seats on only one side is quite interesting.

[OSBF]

Hard to tell by the drawings, but is there room on the "other" side to add seats, if need be?

Must admit, seats on only one side is quite interesting.

Missery State has a nice one sided stadium. The students sit in bleachers on the East side, but the big grandstand is only on the west side, and I thought it was quite a nice stadium, think it's still called Plaster Field.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham also has one-sided stands in the FCS, as does a bunch of others out East (CCSU, I think, has them? I know Monmouth does.) I'm not a big fan, but sometimes space dictates that it has to be that way. For example, Fordham has their baseball diamond on the opposite side and the football team has to share the field.

[LUHawker]

If Fordham decides to go independent, you could see a full-court press by the Patriot League to go after both Loyola and Marist. Loyola's value to the Patriot League goes up significantly, IMO, if they choose to start up football.


Oh no! Here you go again with that cheerleading for Marist to join the Patriot League. Give it Up!

[89Hen]

Hard to tell by the drawings, but is there room on the "other" side to add seats, if need be?

Must admit, seats on only one side is quite interesting.


Missery State has a nice one sided stadium. The students sit in bleachers on the East side, but the big grandstand is only on the west side, and I thought it was quite a nice stadium, think it's still called Plaster Field.
There are others. I think EKU and WKU are both one sided. And YSU might as well be.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/RoyKiddStadium.jpg/250px-RoyKiddStadium.jpg
http://image53.webshots.com/53/0/28/88/2006028880010255659feLEmM_ph.jpg
http://www.ysupenguins.net/facilities/stadium5.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh no! Here you go again with that cheerleading for Marist to join the Patriot League. Give it Up!

If Fordham leaves, you're going to see an awful lot of PL fans cheering for someone - anyone - to take their place, and Marist will be atop that list whether you like it or not.

I'm not saying that's the preferable course of action - I want some form of "full scholarships" - but the key thing here is if Fordham leaves.

[Go...gate]

Awfully quiet down at Center Valley....maybe they are going to let Fordham walk. How stupid that would be.

Don't know much about Loyola, but I checked out the school's website and some other stuff and it looks like a fine place - a lot like Marist, IMO.

[aceinthehole]

Awfully quiet down at Center Valley....maybe they are going to let Fordham walk. How stupid that would be.

Don't know much about Loyola, but I checked out the school's website and some other stuff and it looks like a fine place - a lot like Marist, IMO.

... WITHOUT a football program.

xconfusedx Sometimes I think LFN lets his FCS interest cloud his ability to see reality. Yes, Loyola is building an impressive outdoor stadium, so why doesn't he 'believe' its just for Lax and Soccer.

[DFW HOYA]

Awfully quiet down at Center Valley....maybe they are going to let Fordham walk. How stupid that would be.

If Fordham demands full scholarships or it walks, the PL has little choice. The gauntlet has already been thrown down and I've argued that's not a good negotiating position. If Fordham went in there and accepted some sort of phased approach, it's probably more palatable to presidential purse strings but I don't think that would sell with the Fordham faithful. UConn or Army won't be calling if Fordham is at 45 equivalencies and 10-15 scholarships.

[JetsLuvver]

PL should just let Fordham go and then merge into their beloved Ivy League, at least for football only.

Either Cornell or Brown (which ever is considered the most "undesirable") joins the PL schools to form the Patriot "division". That division's winner would represent the conference in the playoffs.

The Patriot finally gets to walk among their true equals and leave their athletic program unsullied by the evils of full scholarships in football, and with eight non-conference games, the Ivies would only have to dirty their hands against the common folk twice, leaving their precious 10-game schedule intact as well.

All the elitists could finally be happy.

[Ivytalk]

How big a school is Loyola? If they started football, which is doubtful, wouldn't they start at D-III? I know they're D-I in lax, but so is Hopkins, and Hopkins is D-III in FB as well.

[DFW HOYA]

How big a school is Loyola? If they started football, which is doubtful, wouldn't they start at D-III? I know they're D-I in lax, but so is Hopkins, and Hopkins is D-III in FB as well.

3,500 students.

And again, a Division I school can't play below Division I in football. Hopkins has a waiver for lacrosse only.

[Keeper]

Some of you may have missed the story on CSN Log where
American U & Catholic U are considering Patriot League football in
a couple of years. PL will move on without Fordham.

[Dane96]

American is not starting football...that is a pipe dream.

[DFW HOYA]

Some of you may have missed the story on CSN Log where
American U & Catholic U are considering Patriot League football in
a couple of years. PL will move on without Fordham.

I must have really missed it, given that Catholic dropped out of Division I in 1981 and is committed to the D-III philosophy of athletics.

[andy7171]

How big a school is Loyola? If they started football, which is doubtful, wouldn't they start at D-III? I know they're D-I in lax, but so is Hopkins, and Hopkins is D-III in FB as well.

LC is D.I in all sports. Hopkins is D.III in everything but LAX. Hopkins and Hobart were grandfathered in to be D.II in everything but lacrosse. Hobart chose to move down to D.III in lacrosse.

I think Loyola has about 4,000 students.

[Franks Tanks]

Some of you may have missed the story on CSN Log where
American U & Catholic U are considering Patriot League football in
a couple of years. PL will move on without Fordham.

That was an April fools joke. They should have used George Washington instead of Catholic as frankly they have a better chance of starting a D-I FB team.

[andy7171]

That was an April fools joke. They should have used George Washington instead of Catholic as frankly they have a better chance of starting a D-I FB team.

At least Catholic has a football team, GW doesn't nor does American.

And I've been to the CUA stadium, all they need to do is put bleachers up on the other side and they'd have 6-7,000 seats.

But I beleive they are perfectly content staying in D.III.

[Franks Tanks]

At least Catholic has a football team, GW doesn't nor does American.

And I've been to the CUA stadium, all they need to do is put bleachers up on the other side and they'd have 6-7,000 seats.

But I beleive they are perfectly content staying in D.III.

True, but as you say Catholic seems perfectly content in D-III. Also has a D-III ever moved up to D-I while bypassing D-II?

American will never add FB. The school is full of international students and there is a better chance they start a cricket team.

[LUHawker]

If Fordham leaves, you're going to see an awful lot of PL fans cheering for someone - anyone - to take their place, and Marist will be atop that list whether you like it or not.

I'm not saying that's the preferable course of action - I want some form of "full scholarships" - but the key thing here is if Fordham leaves.

I'm not against adding a school or two to the PL; I am opposed to adding Marist as I think that that equates to subtraction by addition. The League will survive without Fordham although I'd prefer they stay, add schollies and attract some other possible candidates. Marist does nothing for the league except add a number. (Although admittedly, I do like visiting the Hudson Valley)

[LUHawker]

If Fordham demands full scholarships or it walks, the PL has little choice. The gauntlet has already been thrown down and I've argued that's not a good negotiating position. If Fordham went in there and accepted some sort of phased approach, it's probably more palatable to presidential purse strings but I don't think that would sell with the Fordham faithful. UConn or Army won't be calling if Fordham is at 45 equivalencies and 10-15 scholarships.

Fordham is already saying they have the requisite equivalencies to satisfy the bowl counter criteria for an FBS school, so this is not a valid argument.

[JD51]

I'm not against adding a school or two to the PL; I am opposed to adding Marist as I think that that equates to subtraction by addition. The League will survive without Fordham although I'd prefer they stay, add schollies and attract some other possible candidates. Marist does nothing for the league except add a number. (Although admittedly, I do like visiting the Hudson Valley)

As much as I'd like to see Marist join the PL, it is unlikely that - should the PL ever add schollies - Marist would have the financial ability to follow. You'll have to find another reason to visit Poughkeepsie.

If the fan boards are any indication PL alums would be in an uproar if a Marist, Loyola, or Bryant was offered as a Fordham replacement. We're probably in for a few more years of PL expansion posts.

[LUHawker]

As much as I'd like to see Marist join the PL, it is unlikely that - should the PL ever add schollies - Marist would have the financial ability to follow. You'll have to find another reason to visit Poughkeepsie.

If the fan boards are any indication PL alums would be in an uproar if a Marist, Loyola, or Bryant was offered as a Fordham replacement. We're probably in for a few more years of PL expansion posts.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of things to like about Marist - just not things that are good for the Patriot League.

[GannonFan]

There are others. I think EKU and WKU are both one sided. And YSU might as well be.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/RoyKiddStadium.jpg/250px-RoyKiddStadium.jpg
http://image53.webshots.com/53/0/28/88/2006028880010255659feLEmM_ph.jpg
http://www.ysupenguins.net/facilities/stadium5.jpg

Really, in all these years you never made it out to Youngstown???? They definitely have two sides, it's just that the one side is so much larger than the other side. Still great seats and great views on the smaller side. Can't speak for EKU or WKU, though, never made it to those places.

[JD51]

Don't get me wrong, I think there are a lot of things to like about Marist - just not things that are good for the Patriot League.

I take no offense. I don't think Marist can, at this point, match the PL level of commitment to football. It will be interesting to see how they do in the PFL.

[ccd494]

They indeed are impressive plans. I still continue to believe that schools don't just build 6,000 seat stadiums just to host lacrosse and soccer games.

You do if you have a lacrosse program in Maryland and can fill it.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

You do if you have a lacrosse program in Maryland and can fill it.

And you can wander a few blocks over to Johns Hopkins U's Homewood Field, a 8.5K capacity field turf facility for D-III Football and D-I Lacrosse. xwhistlex xwhistlex xwhistlex

Homewood Field (http://hopkinssports.cstv.com/school-bio/jhop-facilities.html)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Loyola is now the 10th Patriot League school, thus making it more than worth it to resurrect this thread.

http://www.patriotleague.org/genrel/082912aaa.html

(PS. I was four years ahead of my time!)

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2008/06/next-patriot-league-member-loyola-md.html

[DFW HOYA]

Not surprised, as its place in the PL footprint has been in the discussion for a while.

But now the PL has only half its member schools playing football in the conference, a troubling sign for any benchmark of sport participation. Two questions: 1) was no football-playing school interested in joining, or 2) Is the PL preparing for a future without football?

[LUHawker]

Not surprised, as its place in the PL footprint has been in the discussion for a while.

But now the PL has only half its member schools playing football in the conference, a troubling sign for any benchmark of sport participation. Two questions: 1) was no football-playing school interested in joining, or 2) Is the PL preparing for a future without football?

No way #2 is being considered. I think #1 is the likely case. Football is the core of the league, even if only half the members play there.

[DFW HOYA]

No way #2 is being considered. I think #1 is the likely case. Football is the core of the league, even if only half the members play there.

I only bring this up because the pre-2011 PL bylaws state that a a majority of full member schools must play football to be sponsored by the conference (at least five of then-eight). If any one of five schools (Buck, Colg, HC, Leh, or Laf) left, football would fall below the majority and the sport would not be sponsored.

Obviously, bylaws can be changed, but if I-AA football-playing schools are no longer the majority if an 11th school is ever added within the footprint (Drexel, Fairfield, etc.), it raises some uncomfortable questions. (Clearly, this is a much different discussion if the PL had welcomed Richmond and W&M instead of Loyola and Boston U.)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not surprised, as its place in the PL footprint has been in the discussion for a while.

But now the PL has only half its member schools playing football in the conference, a troubling sign for any benchmark of sport participation. Two questions: 1) was no football-playing school interested in joining, or 2) Is the PL preparing for a future without football?

Or is Loyola planning a future with football? A key choice conveniently ignored by your post.

Unlike BU, Loyola has nothing like the same anti-football culture. They have a facility that is basically ready-made for PL football; if they chose to do it, they certainly could.

[RichH2]

Go back to PL goals. 10 full members. Got it. Clear no football wanted to join as full member. On the upside now Fball expansion not tied to full membership. IMHO makes football expansion easier. Doubt MIT will complain if we add another associate member.

[andy7171]

Or is Loyola planning a future with football? A key choice conveniently ignored by your post.

Unlike BU, Loyola has nothing like the same anti-football culture. They have a facility that is basically ready-made for PL football; if they chose to do it, they certainly could.

It ain't happening. UMBC is more likely to add football. And the chances of that are slim.

[van]

Perhaps our friends on Rose Hill would like to become all sport members?

[RichH2]

Think they missed the chance. PL IMHO looking only for Fball. Only if that school comes in as full member , highly unlikely, would it be feasible for Rams to rejoin as full.

[Seawolf97]

Nice addition nonetheless. Strong academics, national champs is mens lax and good facilities.

[carney2]

For the record, LC is perfectly content with being a soccer/basketball/lax school.

They'd have to climb Mt. Dreamland to get there. Right now they are field hockey, golf school - if that.

[carney2]

Anyway, this whole Loyola to the Patriot League announcement falls into the category

WHO GIVES A CRAP, PART 2

When is the brain trust in Center Valley going to address the precarious football situation?

[Engineer86]

+1

[RichH2]

I would love Fball situation to be resolved but it is hardly precarious. With 10 in ,PL has luxury now to get the right fit. Iwould rather take our time and get the best possible.

[DFW HOYA]

When is the brain trust in Center Valley going to address the precarious football situation?

Realistically, they won't. The admiration for the Virginia schools remains unrequited, Villanova won't touch the PL as long as Andy Talley is coach, and Marist is still deemed unworthy of being invited to the Green Pond Country Club.

Hope I'm proved wrong, but I don't see much movement in this issue until either a) the new A.D. at Fordham starts lobbying to join Stony Brook in the CAA, or b) the 60 scholarship imbalance steamrolls Georgetown into the cellar and they want out. Until either of these take place, it's not a pressing matter.

[carney2]

Realistically, they won't. The admiration for the Virginia schools remains unrequited, Villanova won't touch the PL as long as Andy Talley is coach, and Marist is still deemed unworthy of being invited to the Green Pond Country Club.

Hope I'm proved wrong, but I don't see much movement in this issue until either a) the new A.D. at Fordham starts lobbying to join Stony Brook in the CAA, or b) the 60 scholarship imbalance steamrolls Georgetown into the cellar and they want out. Until either of these take place, it's not a pressing matter.

Thank you for defining the "precarious football situation."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This entire discussion needs to have a giant asterisk in front of it: "if Loyola (MD) does not start football".

It is Loyola's decision to make. It was not a prerequisite to get into the league. But there are benefits for the Greyhounds should they choose to start it, and they have the facilities to do it without the mental baggage of BU.

If they DO start football, magically the "precarious situation" goes away, does it not? 8 members in football, 6 all sports. Geographic shot at a rivalry with Georgetown - with another faith-based private school, at that. They could still even expand with a Villanova or something and have the perfect situation, a 9-team, majority-full member conference that may even be able to claim at-large bids often.

Loyola is not BU. While there's not pressure FOR football to start yesterday, there are hardly the ingrained opposition to football that exists at BU. Football at Loyola can happen.

[TheValleyRaider]

Hope I'm proved wrong, but I don't see much movement in this issue until either a) the new A.D. at Fordham starts lobbying to join Stony Brook in the CAA, or b) the 60 scholarship imbalance steamrolls Georgetown into the cellar and they want out. Until either of these take place, it's not a pressing matter.

Presumably the League feels it has some kind of stability on that question. With the PL adding scholarships, Fordham seems to like being a member, and as you've said Georgetown doesn't really seem to have any other feasible options that it likes. Heck, the addition of scholarships (sans the Hoyas) may be part of what gives G'town more Ivy games


Loyola is not BU. While there's not pressure FOR football to start yesterday, there are hardly the ingrained opposition to football that exists at BU. Football at Loyola can happen.

But those are two very different places to be, aren't they? Is there any momentum from people actually at Loyola to add a football team. Certainly it looks like something that's feasible, but are there any actual noises from within the school itself to actually make that move?

Unless there's some kind of side deal involved in their admission to the League (which sounds kind of silly when I say it out loud like that)...

[RichH2]

Trying to define what may or may possibly happen does not make today precarious for football. How exactly is the PL supposed to sstrongarm a football solution? Moreover, how does this addition hurt our possibilities for an additional football member? The speculation presupposes that we have any control over what happens outside the PL. Likewise to rely on the remote chance that Loyola will add football is more unfounded speculation based on what? Geez what will we do if no one wants to move anywhere. I guess we'll all have to just give up football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But those are two very different places to be, aren't they? Is there any momentum from people actually at Loyola to add a football team. Certainly it looks like something that's feasible, but are there any actual noises from within the school itself to actually make that move?

Here's a better question: what does Fr. Linnane think of adding football? He was at Holy Cross when the Crusaders signed Tom Gilmore and was there in time to see their football resurgence.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

It is a great facility, but the Greyhounds would be biting off a whole new level of challenge, purely optional. If Fordham has not bailed yet, they aren't going.

[Doc QB]

It is a great facility, but the Greyhounds would be biting off a whole new level of challenge, purely optional.

As for adding football, there was little to no buzz regarding a new team while I was in Baltimore...almost 20 years. The new facility there did nothing to change that otherwise. Where would they find the $3-4 million bucks needed to field a I-AA scholarship sport at levels with the best in the league? Thats a ton of scratch from a small school.

I think these additions to the PL show the leadership understands that right now, strengthening the other sports is what they can do, and the football interest is not there currently. It shows in who they added and the type of schools and sports programs they support. I wonder if they have given up on the schools we seem to lust after for football expansion or are content to wait and see. Time will tell.

And...do we want strength in football NUMBERS wise or strength related to football PROGRAM wise? I would be very wary of hoping Loyola adds football...it would benefit the league a ton more for national presence and football prowess to add a solid program (if one ever becomes available or interested) versus adding a start up that will undoubtedly stuggle for years. There are not so many ODUs out there to grow quickly and thrive, many more stuggling programs, right?

[UAalum72]

Loyola last had football in 1933. Would that be the longest hiatus for a reviving program?

[van]

As for adding football, there was little to no buzz regarding a new team while I was in Baltimore...almost 20 years. The new facility there did nothing to change that otherwise. Where would they find the $3-4 million bucks needed to field a I-AA scholarship sport at levels with the best in the league? Thats a ton of scratch from a small school.

I think these additions to the PL show the leadership understands that right now, strengthening the other sports is what they can do, and the football interest is not there currently. It shows in who they added and the type of schools and sports programs they support. I wonder if they have given up on the schools we seem to lust after for football expansion or are content to wait and see. Time will tell.

And...do we want strength in football NUMBERS wise or strength related to football PROGRAM wise? I would be very wary of hoping Loyola adds football...it would benefit the league a ton more for national presence and football prowess to add a solid program (if one ever becomes available or interested) versus adding a start up that will undoubtedly stuggle for years. There are not so many ODUs out there to grow quickly and thrive, many more stuggling programs, right?

Excellent point Doc, assuming Rams and Hoyas are content to stay for football, we can continue to hum along for now until one of those desirable football member decide the CAA is no longer a good home for them.

[RichH2]

As for adding football, there was little to no buzz regarding a new team while I was in Baltimore...almost 20 years. The new facility there did nothing to change that otherwise. Where would they find the $3-4 million bucks needed to field a I-AA scholarship sport at levels with the best in the league? Thats a ton of scratch from a small school.

I think these additions to the PL show the leadership understands that right now, strengthening the other sports is what they can do, and the football interest is not there currently. It shows in who they added and the type of schools and sports programs they support. I wonder if they have given up on the schools we seem to lust after for football expansion or are content to wait and see. Time will tell.

And...do we want strength in football NUMBERS wise or strength related to football PROGRAM wise? I would be very wary of hoping Loyola adds football...it would benefit the league a ton more for national presence and football prowess to add a solid program (if one ever becomes available or interested) versus adding a start up that will undoubtedly stuggle for years. There are not so many ODUs out there to grow quickly and thrive, many more stuggling programs, right?
Nice Doc. Astute as usual. Agree wait for right football fit not just a slot filler. Dont know about this talk of going to 12. WHO?


Yup. Astute and ,IMO, correct analysis.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think people are viewing this incorrectly. The PL is not expanding with another American University, which is never going to be a football school. They are expanding with a growing school that has the potential option, down the line, to add football. That's a huge difference.

While I'm not saying Loyola is like ODU, it's important to remember that ODU was considered a basketball-only school for eons until someone wanted to start football. People talk now about ODU as if becoming a big-time FBS program was their ultimate endgame in the CAA. It was not for several decades. Matter of fact, I think one reason they left the Sun Belt was that they didn't want FBS football at that time. But times changed, leaders changed, and FBS football is now fast approaching there, and the rest is history.

At this point in time, what Eastern schools are in the best situation to start FCS football in the future, should they choose? Two of those top schools are BU and Loyola. Think about that a second. Who are the others? Hofstra? President is the impediment. Northeastern? President AND no facilities. Fairfield? Iona? They have tiny fields, but the MAAC isn't sponsoring them. Vermont? America East isn't sponsoring them, even if their administration wanted it.

Now, BU has a lot of psychological baggage and institutional stuff to overcome if they wanted to start it up, but they literally have everything they need should they choose. Same as Loyola. There are no facilities to create.

The problem is that people are viewing this as "football is not THE reason for expansion, so why should I give a crap?". I am not saying that the PL expanded with BU and Loyola BECAUSE they are going to start football. But I bet one of the things that made them attractive candidates were because they COULD start football. Not only that - they are potential football teams that close the geographic northern and southern gaps with Holy Cross and Georgetown. That's a gamble I am happy to have the PL make.

[RichH2]

Gee Chuck you you can certainly consruct a logical chain regardless that it hangs from the slenderest thread.