2009 FCS Kick-Scoring Champ?

[Native]

Andrew Howard was #1 in the FCS in kick-scoring for the National Champion University of Richmond Spiders.

Andrew will be a senior next year, and I would say he has an excellent chance of repeating in 2009.

The remaining top 15 returning underclassmen placekickers (the number in parentheses is their 2008 ranking):

2. (#2 in 2008) Billy Halgren, Northern Iowa(corrected), SO, 108 pts
3. (#6) Eddie Carmona, Central Arkansas, JR (?), 92 pts
4. (#7) Trevor Scott, Florida A&M, FR, 90 pts
5. (#9) Jason Vitaris, Appalachian State, SO, 88 pts
6. (#10) Jon Williams, Weber State, SO, 87 pts
7. (Tied #13) Kyle Daugherty, Southern Illinois, SO, 85 pts
8. (T#16) Andrew Gardner, Cal Poly, JR, 82 pts
9. (#17) Shawn Bibeau, North Dakota State, 81 pts
10. (#18) Brian Pate, William & Mary, JR, 80 pts
11. (#19) Brody McKnight, Montana, FR (?), 79 pts
12. (T#21) Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State, JR, 77 pts
13. (T#21) Jason Cunningham, Montana state, FR, 77 pts
14. (#24) Ryan gates, Gardner-Webb, FR, 75 pts
15. (T#25) Tom Hansen, Tennessee-Martin, JR, 74pts
(tie) (T#25) Doug Spada, SE Missouri State, JR, 74 pts

[TexasTerror]

Wonder where those two SLC kickers will place now that Bomar and Brown are no longer around... ;)

[JayJ79]

Billy Halgren is from UNI, which is Northern IOWA. not Illinois.

c'mon now..... I've unfortunately come to expect that kind of stupidity from the idiots at ESPN and other BCS-minded morons. But I'd like to think more highly of other FCS fans.....

[Native]

Wonder where those two SLC kickers will place now that Bomar and Brown are no longer around... ;)

If they are good placekickers, they could still do well with field goals.

Usually there two groups of high-scoring placekickers: those who score a lot of PATs because they play on championship offenses, and those who score a lot of field goals because they play for good offenses that stall sort of the goal line.

Actually the Southand Conference kickers did pretty well in 2008, placing four of their kickers in the top 25 among FCS placekickers for kick-scoring:

#5 Andrew Ireland graduated for Texas State
#6 Eddie Carmona's stats are not posted on espn, so it's hard to tell how well he will do with field goals - he must be rostered primarily as a punter
#20 Robert Weeks graduated for Northwestern Louisiana State
#21 Taylor Wilkins hit a very respectable 12 of 17 field goals for Sam Houston

[Native]

Billy Halgren is from UNI, which is Northern IOWA. not Illinois.

c'mon now..... I've unfortunately come to expect that kind of stupidity from the idiots at ESPN and other BCS-minded morons. But I'd like to think more highly of other FCS fans.....

Gee Jay, thanks for the correction! He is a dang fine kicker, no matter who he plays for!

[Native]

For placing kickers among the top 25 in the FCS in kick-scoring, the conferences stacked up like this for 2008:

1. Ohio Valley with 5 kickers led by #8 Taylor Long (89 pts)
(tie) Big Sky with 5 kickers led by #10 Jon Williams (87 pts)

3. Colonial with 4 kickers led by #1 Andrew Howard (110 pts)
(tie) Southland with 4 kickers led by #5 Andrew Ireland (98 pts)

5. Missouri Valley with 3 kickers led by Billy Halgren (108 pts)
(tie) Southern with 3 kickers led by Andrew Wilcox (99 pts)

7. Great West, MEAC, Big South and Patriot tied for 7th, each with one kicker in the top 25 for kick-scoring

[JayJ79]

Gee Jay, thanks for the correction! He is a dang fine kicker, no matter who he plays for!

sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine (and many other UNI fans).

Billy is a decent kicker. Though people at UNI have been somewhat spoiled by some of our previous kickers. Which isn't really all that fair to Billy.

[Native]

sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine (and many other UNI fans).

Billy is a decent kicker. Though people at UNI have been somewhat spoiled by some of our previous kickers. Which isn't really all that fair to Billy.

I think Billy he is a great kicker. xthumbsupx

Sometimes a few UNI fans dis him inappropriately. xsmhx

[achrist70]

Billy is a really good kicker, however I have heard that he is being pushed hard by last years Back-up Max Martin (Redshirted). I don't know if he is going to overtake Billy but competition is always a good thing in my book.

[Native]

Billy is a really good kicker, however I have heard that he is being pushed hard by last years Back-up Max Martin (Redshirted). I don't know if he is going to overtake Billy but competition is always a good thing in my book.

Agreed. The best kickers (and athletes in general) perform better under pressure and with competition.

But it should be mighty hard to knock Billy out of his position considering his accomplishments as SECOND LEADING KICK-SCORER IN THE NATION in 2008:

51 of 53 PATs, 19 of 25 (19 of 23?) field goals, led the Missouri Valley Conference in average kickoff yardage, which contributed to Northern Iowa's leading the Missouri valley in kickoff coverage...

But here is the real "kicker," and the #1 reason why Billy should retain his starting position:

Despite missing at least one long-range potential game winner this year, Billy Hallgren was FLAWLESS in RED ZONE FIELD GOALS in 2008 (at least in the stats recorded on espn), hitting 15 for 15.

xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

[Native]

Billy Hallgren scored 96 points for the Panthers in 2007 (the most by a freshman kicker in the history of the program).

Hit more than 70% of his field goals in the red zone for two years running (07 and 08)

Drew first blood and opened scoring for UNI in four games in 2008 with a 35-yard FG against Richmond, a 33 yard FG against Brigham Young, a 47-yard FG against North Dakota State, and a 24-yard FG against Western Illinois.

Led UNI in scoring, scored in double digits five times in 2008

Billy's foot provided the margin of victory against New Hampshire, Southern Utah and Youngstown State in 2008.

Hallgren made 10 touchbacks and averaged more than 60 yards on kickoffs during the 2008 regular season.

Billy Hallgren is an elite kicker who has performed superbly for his team and knows he can make the next kick, as he has demonstrated with professional-level consistency at the highest competitive levels of college football!

[Tribe4SF]

Winning this title really requires that your team make a deep playoff run. Howard had 16 games to rack up his total last year, and Hallgren had 15.

In terms of points/game, the top returners are...

1) Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State 7.70/game
2) Trevor Scott, FAMU 7.50/game
3) Andrew Gardner, Cal Poly 7.45/game
4) Shawn Bibeau, NDSU 7.36/game
5) Brian Pate, W&M 7.27/game
6) Kyle Daugherty, SIU 7.25/game
7) Billy Hallgren, UNI 7.20/game
8) Peter Reifenrath, SDSU 7.00/game
9) Andrew Howard, UR 6.88/game
10) Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb 6.82/game

Edit- Missed Billy Carmona, Central Arkansas, 7.67/game. He's #2.

[gophoenix]

I don't think these stats are right.

[Green26]

I believe the Cal Poly kicker has graduated. I hear that several schools, including Wisconsin and Montana, are giving him an honorary degree.

[Tribe4SF]

I don't think these stats are right.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&rpt=IAA_playerscoring&site=org

[gophoenix]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&rpt=IAA_playerscoring&site=org

So how is Howard #1? The regular season stats indicate quite a few above him.

[BEAR]

Winning this title really requires that your team make a deep playoff run. Howard had 16 games to rack up his total last year, and Hallgren had 15.

In terms of points/game, the top returners are...

1) Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State 7.70/game
2) Trevor Scott, FAMU 7.50/game
3) Andrew Gardner, Cal Poly 7.45/game
4) Shawn Bibeau, NDSU 7.36/game
5) Brian Pate, W&M 7.27/game
6) Kyle Daugherty, SIU 7.25/game
7) Billy Hallgren, UNI 7.20/game
8) Peter Reifenrath, SDSU 7.00/game
9) Andrew Howard, UR 6.88/game
10) Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb 6.82/game

Edit- Missed Billy Carmona, Central Arkansas, 7.67/game. He's #2.
-
That should read EDDIE Carmona...aka. Car-MONEY! (he's money on accuracy!) xlolx Although he did have a rough spell toward the mddle of the year. Injury I think. Watched him at practice kicking 35 yarders. Booted them above the net behind the goal...lots of car damage for those parked in the parking lot behind the practice field...xlolx

[UCABEARS75]

Wonder where those two SLC kickers will place now that Bomar and Brown are no longer around... ;)

I am guessing the Carmona (UCA) will get more FG attempts with less Ext. Pt. attempts.

Our defense should be exceptional (giving the offense the ball in decent field position) but there is no way we will get it in the end zone as often without Nathan Brown.

[Native]

Winning this title really requires that your team make a deep playoff run. Howard had 16 games to rack up his total last year, and Hallgren had 15.

In terms of points/game, the top returners are...

1) Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State 7.70/game
2) Trevor Scott, FAMU 7.50/game
3) Andrew Gardner, Cal Poly 7.45/game
4) Shawn Bibeau, NDSU 7.36/game
5) Brian Pate, W&M 7.27/game
6) Kyle Daugherty, SIU 7.25/game
7) Billy Hallgren, UNI 7.20/game
8) Peter Reifenrath, SDSU 7.00/game
9) Andrew Howard, UR 6.88/game
10) Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb 6.82/game

Edit- Missed Billy Carmona, Central Arkansas, 7.67/game. He's #2.

Point well taken!

The way my question is worded, playoff participation gives a kicker great advantage. This year the NCAA does not include playoff stats, in previous years they did. Neither method is necessarily right or wrong, but it begs the question of what should we really be measuring in a placekicker's performance? Probably not points per game or points per season, although all such discussions are kind of fun when there is no football on TV. xpeacex

A more useful discussion might be: What aspects of a kicker's performance are the most important to team success, and which ones should we be measuring? So I started a poll on this thread. Pleae chime in with which aspects you think are most important and why.

[Native]

Some good questions about kicker stats have been raised in this thread, so I added a poll, "Most Important Qualities of a Kicker?"

Please vote in the poll and then blog about what kicker performance metrics are the most important and why.

I think there are about a dozen key qualities a great kicker must possess, but the most important is Red Zone FG conversion rate. Red zone conversion provides the greatest contribution to team success, game in and game out, in the most game situations and across the widest variety of team types and offensive styles. This could be adjusted to "kicks inside the 40" or kicks inside the 50" but the basic concept remains the same. It is the most accurate way to measure kicker performance from team to team because there are more controls and fewer variables.

Here are my top three:
1. Red Zone conversion rate
2. Game winner conversion rate
3. Kickoff distance/hang time

Kicking and kickers are often considered as individual performers but nothing could be further from the truth. A kicker's success contributes to and depends upon team success, the coach, the line, the snapper and the holder.

[Tribe4SF]

So how is Howard #1? The regular season stats indicate quite a few above him.

He was #1 in total points scored, but he did it in 16 games. The ranking on the NCAA site that I linked is by points per game.

[Native]

He was #1 in total points scored, but he did it in 16 games. The ranking on the NCAA site that I linked is by points per game.

There must be at least a dozen legitimate ways to rank kickers.

[Tribe4SF]

You've listed several in the poll. Many who are terrific on placement accuracy, are not so great on kickoffs. Our guy Brian Pate has been one of those. He seems to have improved his leg strength over the winter.

Kickoff distance has become a questionable stat these days because so many teams are using the high pooch kickoff that is designed to fall between the 15 and 25 yard lines near the sideline.

[ur2k]

So how is Howard #1? The regular season stats indicate quite a few above him.

Got extra credit for winning a national championship. xnodx

Howard is a great kicker and had hit something like 120 straight extra point attempts (missed first in UMASS game) but got the yips towards the end of last year and scared the heck out of me for much of the tail end of the season. Our punter Brian Radford stepped in a few times to kick FGs.

[Native]

You've listed several in the poll. Many who are terrific on placement accuracy, are not so great on kickoffs. Our guy Brian Pate has been one of those. He seems to have improved his leg strength over the winter.

Kickoff distance has become a questionable stat these days because so many teams are using the high pooch kickoff that is designed to fall between the 15 and 25 yard lines near the sideline.

Your point is well taken, Tribe! xthumbsupx

It is very difficult to accurately capture and usefully parse all the relevant data. xeyebrowx

[MR. CHICKEN]

LET'S NOT FO'GET...'BOUT.......DELAWARE'S.....JON STRIEFSKY....(YON AS WE SAY IN SECTION J)....WHO'LL BE UH SENIOR DIS SEASON.....WHO WAS DUH ALL-AMERICAN KICKER.....IN 2007....AS UH SOPH..........HE DROPPED OFF DUH MAP LAST SEASON........AS OURAH PITIFUL QB.......COULDN'T EVEN....GET HIM IN DECENT RANGE.........HE WAS ONLY 7-13 FG'S.......27-27 PAT'S.....HE MAY REBOUND IN '09....WHIFF IMPROVED QB (DEVLIN) PLAY..............xnodx..........BRAWK/OBAMA!

[Native]

As of today, 20 April, I see that most of us regard overall FG conversion rate as the single most important placekicker performance metric.

I disagree, for the reason that overall FGM rate might not accurately reflect the kicker's contribution to the team, if the offense is weak and the coach has sent a kicker with otherwise flawless red zone performance in for too many low percentage attempts beyond, say, the 45.

I think it's great to attempt and make the longer field goals, I just don't think the percentage is as important on the longer kicks as it is on the shorter ones.

Comparing all FGAs makes it difficult to compare one kicker to the next because of variations in coaching strategies and offensive capabilities. Comparing only red zone kicks helps normalize the data and get a truer comparison of one kicker to the next.

I am defining red zone as any kick attempted from a line of scrimmage of the 20 yard line or closer. This makes the longest red zone FGA a 37-yarder. If this is too close in, then we should just change the range out to 39 yards or even 49 yards. But we should reduce the variation as much as practicable to have a better chance of "comparing apples to apples."

Note: My red zone definition may be different from an official statistician's view because the kicking team may have started with a first down on the 15 and been pushed back to the 30. The statistician may consider this a red zone attempt because the red zone was penetrated on this series, but the actual attempt would be a 47-yarder (goal posts to goal line of 10 yards, plus LOS to goal line of 30 yards, plus ball placement 7 yards behind the LOS).

So, all smack and homerism aside, how to we best measure kicker performance and contribution to team success?!???

[813Jag]

As of today, 20 April, I see that most of us regard overall FG conversion rate as the single most important placekicker performance metric.

I disagree the reason that overall FGM rate might not accurately reflect the kicker's contribution to the team, if the offense is weak and the coach has sent a kicker with otherwise flawless red zone performance in for too many low percentage attempts beyond, say, the 45. I think it's great to attempt and make the longer field goals, I just don't think the percentage is as important on the longer kicks as it is on the shorter ones.

Comparing all FGAs makes it difficult to compare one kicker to the next because of variations in coaching strategies and offensive capabilities. Comparing only red zone kicks helps normalize the data and get a truer comparison of one kicker to the next.

I am defining red zone as any kick attempted from a line of scrimmage of the 20 yard line or closer. This makes the longest red zone FGA a 37-yarder. If this is too close in, then we should just change the range out to 39 yards or even 49 yards. But we should reduce the variation as much as practicable to have a better chance of "comparing apples to apples."

Note: My red zone definition may be different from an official statistician's view because the kicking team may have started with a first down on the 15 and been pushed back to the 30. The statistician may consider this a red zone attempt because the red zone was penetrated on this series, but the actual attempt would be a 47-yarder (goal posts to goal line of 10 yards, plus LOS to goal line of 30 yards, plus ball placement 7 yards behind the LOS).

So, all smack and homerism aside, how to we best measure kicker performance and contribution to team success?!???
I'll pick two, Red Zone FG conversion is really important, because those are potential points left on the field. Sure if you have a strong legged, accurate kicker long FGs are a bonus. The other that most people take for granted is PAT conversion, coming from a league where PATs can be dicey at times, this can really change the complexion of a game. I've witnessed it many times in the last few years at Southern. You should never hold your breath on an extra point.

[Native]

I believe the Cal Poly kicker has graduated. I hear that several schools, including Wisconsin and Montana, are giving him an honorary degree.


Thank you for the observation. He is listed as a junior on espn.com, but no longer listed on the roster at the Cal Poly football web site. Maybe he "retired" early? xeyebrowx

Hmmm... you would think that Montana and Wisconsin, in particular, would want him to stick around for another year or even two to finish that degree... xrolleyesx

Hey! Andrew was in the arena! We were not!

[Native]

You've listed several in the poll. Many who are terrific on placement accuracy, are not so great on kickoffs. Our guy Brian Pate has been one of those. He seems to have improved his leg strength over the winter.

Kickoff distance has become a questionable stat these days because so many teams are using the high pooch kickoff that is designed to fall between the 15 and 25 yard lines near the sideline.

Distance alone without hang time is pretty meaningless. A well coached, skilled and disciplined coverage team is also required.

... sometimes teams go to the pooch kick because they have neither the kicking talent nor the special teams skills/depth to provide deeper coverage? xeyebrowx

If I had a kicker that could consistently deliver the ball inside the 10 yard line after a 4 second hang time, I don't think I would be choosing a sideline pooch kick unless I was really thin on the kickoff coverage team...

[Tribe4SF]

LET'S NOT FO'GET...'BOUT.......DELAWARE'S.....JON STRIEFSKY....(YON AS WE SAY IN SECTION J)....WHO'LL BE UH SENIOR DIS SEASON.....WHO WAS DUH ALL-AMERICAN KICKER.....IN 2007....AS UH SOPH..........HE DROPPED OFF DUH MAP LAST SEASON........AS OURAH PITIFUL QB.......COULDN'T EVEN....GET HIM IN DECENT RANGE.........HE WAS ONLY 7-13 FG'S.......27-27 PAT'S.....HE MAY REBOUND IN '09....WHIFF IMPROVED QB (DEVLIN) PLAY..............xnodx..........BRAWK/OBAMA!

Great to see you back in the forum, my barnyard buddy! I worried that the dog or the chickenhawk had nailed you... or that your loquacious way had landed you in the coop.:D

[MR. CHICKEN]

THANKY......TRIBAL MEMBER.......HENRIETTA.....BEEN KEEPIN'......DUH BIG BIRD.......BUSY!.....:D.............AWK!

[I-AA Fan]

PAT's, PAT's PAT's ...and only PAT's. Oh yeah, and PAT's as well. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable.

[Native]

PAT's, PAT's PAT's ...and only PAT's. Oh yeah, and PAT's as well. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable.

I am glad you expanded your horizons to include four criteria to your list! xlolxxlolx

[jmufan999]

what's with all the threads about kickers?

[Native]

what's with all the threads about kickers?

Special teams are a third of the game and frequently overlooked - often to the detriment of the team. xsmhx

Kicking in particular is not well understood. xnonono2xIt accounts for about a fifth of the scoring and often more yardage than either punting or the offense.xeekx

xpeacex

[OLDMAIN80]

What is this field goal thing you speak of?