CAA Eyes Odd Slate

[jstclmet]

Not much new here, as what's in the article has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.

I'm a little surprised to see the same scenarios admitted by the CAA.

Not so surprised that no one's willing to leave the CAA. No mention of anyone considering a move to FBS.

With getting 4 - 5 teams in the playoffs, I don't see the need for a second AB, but I also did see the need to mention that the CAA was not pushing for same.

The schedule will be very interesting. Someone will always be unhappy, and at least one team which makes the playoffs will be criticized for not playing enough good teams.


http://www.dailynews-record.com/sports_details.php?AID=37115&CHID=3

[andy7171]

Well if they are going to go 6/7 in '11 and 7/7 in '12, I hearby nominate Towson to get the F out of the South division. To keep the Delaware/Villanove together, of course.

[ur2k]

Shrewd move Andy. I see you're attempting to get out of the meat grinder aka South Division.

[danefan]

the 3 division scenario is still alive!

The only sliver of hope Albany fans have left..........

[thefortyniner]

Colonial director of communications Scott Meyer said associate commissioner Chuck Boone literally pulled the schools' names out of Meyer's 2008 Kansas basketball national-championship cap. The league has opted not to release the results of the drawing.

:vomit:

Yet another chance for the newspapers to plug the BCS even in a story has nothing to do with the Big Crock of ****.

[gophoenix]

the 3 division scenario is still alive!

The only sliver of hope Albany fans have left..........

Go to the Big South with Stony Brook?

[danefan]

Go to the Big South with Stony Brook?

I think that is possible if Fordham does the same.

But we'd much rather be associated with the CAA, like the other America East football playing schools (sans SBU).

[Jackman]

Someone really needs to sit down with Mickey Matthews and explain to him why a second CAA AQ wouldn't have put William & Mary in the playoffs. Maybe use hand puppets as visual aids or something. Unless the CAA suddenly goes from a 5 bid league to a 1 bid league (in an expanded playoff field no less), a second AQ does absolutely nothing.

And seriously, how is there any debate left on the 14 team division structure? If the other two options being discussed are sticking the southernmost team in the North or breaking up Delaware and Villanova, then the 5-4-5 plan is obviously the way to go.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And seriously, how is there any debate left on the 14 team division structure? If the other two options being discussed are sticking the southernmost team in the North or breaking up Delaware and Villanova, then the 5-4-5 plan is obviously the way to go.

OK, I'll bite. Praytell, how do you determine a "CAA Champion" this way? Take the winners of the North, Central, and South divisions, and make them all rings?

And then, what do you do with "autobids"? Have an unwritten rule that the winner of the Central gets an automatic at-large bid every year even if they're 7-4 while losing to two Top 25 teams?

If the schools of the CAA North had any cohones they'd separate from the South with their own brand and end this nonsense. Unfortunately, that will most likely never happen - meaning FCS is likely to suffer through the ridiculous charade of Towson/Georgia State playing in the "North", and playoff slots which should be autobids getting assigned to CAA teams. xsmhx

[GannonFan]

Someone really needs to sit down with Mickey Matthews and explain to him why a second CAA AQ wouldn't have put William & Mary in the playoffs. Maybe use hand puppets as visual aids or something. Unless the CAA suddenly goes from a 5 bid league to a 1 bid league (in an expanded playoff field no less), a second AQ does absolutely nothing.




Gotta love Mickey - quote machine, that's for sure.

[Jackman]

OK, I'll bite. Praytell, how do you determine a "CAA Champion" this way? Take the winners of the North, Central, and South divisions, and make them all rings?

And then, what do you do with "autobids"? Have an unwritten rule that the winner of the Central gets an automatic at-large bid every year even if they're 7-4 while losing to two Top 25 teams?

We do it the same way we currently do it with two divisions: Conference record and then tiebreakers. The divisions are just for ease of scheduling. We're not playing every other team in the conference no matter what we do, so it's going to come down to tiebreakers regardless of whether there's 2 divisions, 7 divisions or zero divisions.

[GannonFan]

OK, I'll bite. Praytell, how do you determine a "CAA Champion" this way? Take the winners of the North, Central, and South divisions, and make them all rings?

Have had plenty of years without a "true" CAA Champion. Hasn't seemed to be an issue within the conference before, can't see why it would become one again. Seems to be more of an outsider complaint. xwhistlex




And then, what do you do with "autobids"? Have an unwritten rule that the winner of the Central gets an automatic at-large bid every year even if they're 7-4 while losing to two Top 25 teams?

The autobid tie-breaker the CAA currently has should suffice. Can't really remember the last time the CAA autobid team was seen as "unworthy" of a playoff slot. Heck, it's not like other conferences that I seem to remember that had 6-5 teams make the playoff because they stole an autobid. What was that conference again??????? :p




If the schools of the CAA North had any cohones they'd separate from the South with their own brand and end this nonsense. Unfortunately, that will most likely never happen - meaning FCS is likely to suffer through the ridiculous charade of Towson/Georgia State playing in the "North", and playoff slots which should be autobids getting assigned to CAA teams. xsmhx

Obviously, teams in the CAA North like this arrangement, otherwise they would've left a long time ago. If there was ever any real desire for a separate, CAA North-type conference, there have been plenty of oppurtunities for that to occur (AEast, A10, etc). It has nothing to do with cahones, and everything to do with a preference to keep playing teams they have historically been playing.

And how is FCS "suffering" because of the size and scheduling of the CAA? How is Cal Poly negatively impacted by which division Towson plays in, and how is the Southland impacted by Georgie State's slot? Sorry, gotta call a spade a spade - that's a completely absurd comment.

And can you explain the comment "...and playoff slots which should be autobids getting assigned to CAA teams..."? Who's autobids are being stolen by the CAA getting as many at larges as they have recently? The only two conferences that are both autobid eligible and actually want to be in the playoffs are the Big South and NEC, and they are both getting them in 2010. Sure Maine was a weak entrant last year in the playoffs, but there was just as much of a case for W&M to be the last team in as there was with Liberty (Big South champ, no autobid yet). And by the time 2011 rolls around and ODU and Georgia St the next year are in the CAA, that problem will be long rectified with the playoff expansion and the two extra autobids. Again, this is a seemingly absurd comment.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

OK, I'll bite. Praytell, how do you determine a "CAA Champion" this way? Take the winners of the North, Central, and South divisions, and make them all rings?

And then, what do you do with "autobids"? Have an unwritten rule that the winner of the Central gets an automatic at-large bid every year even if they're 7-4 while losing to two Top 25 teams?

If the schools of the CAA North had any cohones they'd separate from the South with their own brand and end this nonsense. Unfortunately, that will most likely never happen - meaning FCS is likely to suffer through the ridiculous charade of Towson/Georgia State playing in the "North", and playoff slots which should be autobids getting assigned to CAA teams. xsmhx

Must you constantly be reminded that two of the CAA North teams are CAA all sports members and no level of "cohones" would ever get them to separate their football programs?

And I'm sorry, FCS is not suffering because of what the CAA does. Please enlighten us on that one. xrolleyesx Developing strong teams is bad for FCS? Beating FBS teams is bad for FCS?

And what autobids are being lost and assigned to CAA teams? xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx Any league that wants an AQ today only has to ask! Lots of wiggle room in the playoffs now that we have 20 teams. Bring on the Ivy, the SWAC, the Pioneer, the Great West and whoever else because it won't have as radical a change to the playoffs as the expansion to 20 did.

Maybe if the Patriot League could make itself attractive enough or become less elitist, then some schools who very logically could migrate over to the PL would do so. That just might be one of the most realistic course to downsizing the CAA Football League. xwhistlex xwhistlex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The FCS is suffering because the CAA North and CAA South are really just a scheduling arrangement with one autobid.

How is it a conference? Not all the CAA North and CAA South teams can play each other. The possibility exists that teams from the CAA North and CAA South can go undefeated in conference play. Two years ago, the CAA Autobid went to the winner of a coin flip, and both divisional champions made rings for themselves since they didn't play each other. There is no such thing as a CAA Championship game, something that's done by every other conference with more teams than divisional game opportunities.

With all the arguments that "CAA Championships don't matter" - made by all the fans on this board - that further buttresses the case that the CAA isn't really a conference but is really just a scheduling arrangement on the way to the FCS playoffs.

OK, accepting that - how is it bad for FCS? Because all other conferences have to play by the rules - silly little things like having a way to determine a conference championship to determine autobids, which is the foundation for the autobid/at-large bid structure.

The fact that the CAA is not allowed to crown a real champion means the rest of FCS has to suffer through this charade that the CAA North is a "conference-in-and-of-itself-no-really" even though they themselves fit all the criteria for an autobid conference but for the sake of keeping the autobid level as is pretend they're a part of the CAA - which, as I already mentioned, doesn't hold a real championship that matters, based on the enlightened opinion of CAA posters on this board.

That means either the CAA North or CAA South Champion will get an at-large bid to the playoffs - the loser of the coin-flip* I mean loser of the autobid criteria will dictate for one year. This makes the FCS playoffs, in effect, nine autobids and seven at-large bids - which is in violation of the NCAA's 50% rule.

That CAA fans are unable to grasp that other FCS schools are unhappy with getting seven at-large bid opportunities when they should be getting eight is something that escapes me.

[bluehenbillk]

The FCS is suffering because the CAA North and CAA South are really just a scheduling arrangement with one autobid.

How is it a conference? Not all the CAA North and CAA South teams can play each other. The possibility exists that teams from the CAA North and CAA South can go undefeated in conference play. Two years ago, the CAA Autobid went to the winner of a coin flip, and both divisional champions made rings for themselves since they didn't play each other. There is no such thing as a CAA Championship game, something that's done by every other conference with more teams than divisional game opportunities.

With all the arguments that "CAA Championships don't matter" - made by all the fans on this board - that further buttresses the case that the CAA isn't really a conference but is really just a scheduling arrangement on the way to the FCS playoffs.

OK, accepting that - how is it bad for FCS? Because all other conferences have to play by the rules - silly little things like having a way to determine a conference championship to determine autobids, which is the foundation for the autobid/at-large bid structure.

The fact that the CAA is not allowed to crown a real champion means the rest of FCS has to suffer through this charade that the CAA North is a "conference-in-and-of-itself-no-really" even though they themselves fit all the criteria for an autobid conference but for the sake of keeping the autobid level as is pretend they're a part of the CAA - which, as I already mentioned, doesn't hold a real championship that matters, based on the enlightened opinion of CAA posters on this board.

That means either the CAA North or CAA South Champion will get an at-large bid to the playoffs - the loser of the coin-flip* I mean loser of the autobid criteria will dictate for one year. This makes the FCS playoffs, in effect, nine autobids and seven at-large bids - which is in violation of the NCAA's 50% rule.

That CAA fans are unable to grasp that other FCS schools are unhappy with getting seven at-large bid opportunities when they should be getting eight is something that escapes me.


Let's put it this way, the 8 at-large bids are supposed to be dedicated to the 8 best teams in the country that didn't receive an autobid. Is your argument that the CAA North gets a reprise from not going through the CAA South gauntlet and gets a "9th autobid" by virtue of a soft schedule? Cmon, let's be on the same page, regardless of size, look at the history of the A-10/CAA, I think there's only been one year EVER the league didn't get 2 teams in the tourney. Nowadays, 3 is a lock & we get 4-5 now, I guess 6 is a possibility when they expand the field.

Other FCS schools, outside of the Southern, should look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves how the CAA has gotten so far ahead of their own leagues. As a Patriot guy I'd ask the question real quick because that sound you hear is the NEC passing you, making you even more irrelevant in the future.....

[89Hen]

The possibility exists that teams from the CAA North and CAA South can go undefeated in conference play. Two years ago, the CAA Autobid went to the winner of a coin flip, and both divisional champions made rings for themselves since they didn't play each other.
And this affects the rest of I-AA how? xconfusedx

[89Hen]

The fact that the CAA is not allowed to crown a real champion means the rest of FCS has to suffer through this charade that the CAA North is a "conference-in-and-of-itself-no-really" even though they themselves fit all the criteria for an autobid conference but for the sake of keeping the autobid level as is pretend they're a part of the CAA - which, as I already mentioned, doesn't hold a real championship that matters, based on the enlightened opinion of CAA posters on this board.

That means either the CAA North or CAA South Champion will get an at-large bid to the playoffs - the loser of the coin-flip* I mean loser of the autobid criteria will dictate for one year. This makes the FCS playoffs, in effect, nine autobids and seven at-large bids - which is in violation of the NCAA's 50% rule.

That CAA fans are unable to grasp that other FCS schools are unhappy with getting seven at-large bid opportunities when they should be getting eight is something that escapes me.
OK read further. Still semantics. The CAA CAN crown a "real" champion. It's just that many years, there are ties. What if JMU and UD were both 7-1 and nobody else was 7-1. If JMU beat UD for their one loss, aren't they the real champion? That's a tiebreaker LFN. Or are you saying we can only go one tiebreaker down to crown a "real" champion? xeyebrowx

What happens in the SoCon when three teams go 7-1? xeyebrowx xeyebrowx They should have their autobid revoked? xlolx

The OVC can't crown a real champ if it comes down to TSU and somebody else. They all don't play each other.

Your hang-up on the CAA auto is ridiculous. If there comes a day when a 6-5 CAA gets the auto, then come back and bring it up. Until then, it's xbawlingx.

[WMTribe90]

The FCS is suffering because the CAA North and CAA South are really just a scheduling arrangement with one autobid.

How is it a conference? Not all the CAA North and CAA South teams can play each other. The possibility exists that teams from the CAA North and CAA South can go undefeated in conference play. Two years ago, the CAA Autobid went to the winner of a coin flip, and both divisional champions made rings for themselves since they didn't play each other. There is no such thing as a CAA Championship game, something that's done by every other conference with more teams than divisional game opportunities.

With all the arguments that "CAA Championships don't matter" - made by all the fans on this board - that further buttresses the case that the CAA isn't really a conference but is really just a scheduling arrangement on the way to the FCS playoffs.

OK, accepting that - how is it bad for FCS? Because all other conferences have to play by the rules - silly little things like having a way to determine a conference championship to determine autobids, which is the foundation for the autobid/at-large bid structure.

The fact that the CAA is not allowed to crown a real champion means the rest of FCS has to suffer through this charade that the CAA North is a "conference-in-and-of-itself-no-really" even though they themselves fit all the criteria for an autobid conference but for the sake of keeping the autobid level as is pretend they're a part of the CAA - which, as I already mentioned, doesn't hold a real championship that matters, based on the enlightened opinion of CAA posters on this board.

That means either the CAA North or CAA South Champion will get an at-large bid to the playoffs - the loser of the coin-flip* I mean loser of the autobid criteria will dictate for one year. This makes the FCS playoffs, in effect, nine autobids and seven at-large bids - which is in violation of the NCAA's 50% rule.

That CAA fans are unable to grasp that other FCS schools are unhappy with getting seven at-large bid opportunities when they should be getting eight is something that escapes me.

Cite the de-facto CAA North Champion, that didn't recieve the CAA auto-bid and received an at-large that wasn't deserving of a playoff spot. Which FCS team was more deserving? Otherwise your argument has no merit, as the best team from the north is playoff worthy, whether it be an at-large or autobid.

In actuality, the CAA arrangement is good for FCS because it frees up another auto-bid for a conference that needs it to ensure their best team gets a spot in the field. Giving the CAA North a second auto-bid as a seperate conference only takes away an auto-bid from a lesser conference and gives it to a team that is all but assured of making the field as an at-large by virtue of their record and SOS.

You anti-CAA bias is clouding your judgement.

[bluehenbillk]

LFN does have a historical point of reference. During the Elite Eight of March Madness this year you could hear people around the country whining that the Big East was too good, er big, placing 5 of their teams in the final 8.

[GannonFan]

The FCS is suffering because the CAA North and CAA South are really just a scheduling arrangement with one autobid.

So it would be better if we got two autobids? Seeing how the Yankee/A10/CAA has gone 24 years and only once just got one team in, that would seem to be a non-issue




How is it a conference? Not all the CAA North and CAA South teams can play each other. The possibility exists that teams from the CAA North and CAA South can go undefeated in conference play. Two years ago, the CAA Autobid went to the winner of a coin flip, and both divisional champions made rings for themselves since they didn't play each other. There is no such thing as a CAA Championship game, something that's done by every other conference with more teams than divisional game opportunities.

Well, the NCAA forbids holding a conference championship game and playing in the NCAA postseason, so the reason that other conferences of similar or close size have a title game is because they don't play in the NCAA playoffs. You get the NCAA to change the rule, and I'm sure we wouldn't be against playing a title game. And no, we're not going to play a 10 game schedule, then match up the two top contenders for a "title game" in week 11, just to satisfy the wants of Patriot League fans. It's unwieldy, too hard to manage, and it cuts the number of OOC games we can play.




With all the arguments that "CAA Championships don't matter" - made by all the fans on this board - that further buttresses the case that the CAA isn't really a conference but is really just a scheduling arrangement on the way to the FCS playoffs.

OK, accepting that - how is it bad for FCS? Because all other conferences have to play by the rules - silly little things like having a way to determine a conference championship to determine autobids, which is the foundation for the autobid/at-large bid structure.

We do have ways to determine the winner of the autobid, and it rarely comes down to a coin flip (I think the coin flip has been used once, ever). Other conferences do just like the CAA does and have co-champs when teams are tied and they have tiebreakers to determine the autobid. How is the CAA, especially in light of the past, fundamentally different from that?




The fact that the CAA is not allowed to crown a real champion means the rest of FCS has to suffer through this charade that the CAA North is a "conference-in-and-of-itself-no-really" even though they themselves fit all the criteria for an autobid conference but for the sake of keeping the autobid level as is pretend they're a part of the CAA - which, as I already mentioned, doesn't hold a real championship that matters, based on the enlightened opinion of CAA posters on this board.

That means either the CAA North or CAA South Champion will get an at-large bid to the playoffs - the loser of the coin-flip* I mean loser of the autobid criteria will dictate for one year. This makes the FCS playoffs, in effect, nine autobids and seven at-large bids - which is in violation of the NCAA's 50% rule.

Yup, there's the absurd comment. The champ of the North division has been left out of the playoffs before so your argument is moot right there. And again, the coin flip happened once, and coin flips are possible in other conferences too. Why the hang up on that??



That CAA fans are unable to grasp that other FCS schools are unhappy with getting seven at-large bid opportunities when they should be getting eight is something that escapes me.

I don't normally go with such a quaint reaction but seriously... WOW. I mean that...WOW. I knew you had a hang up with the CAA before, but I never thought that would get in the way of your objectivity.

If your main argument is that the CAA, as currently constructed, is a scheduling arrangement with one autobid, how does it get any better if the conference splits in two, maintains the same scheduling arrangement, and now has two autobids? The same number of teams from the two CAA's will still get in. I could see this argument if the CAA was routinely getting in marginal teams that had no business being in the playoffs, but the only times when the CAA got numerous teams ('03, '07, '08) they were more than justified from the regular season in being selected (come on, other than Maine last year, which CAA teams shouldn't have made the playoffs previously, and remember, W&M was probably the next team in should Maine have been dropped) and they more than justified being there based on their performances.

[andy7171]

LFN does have a historical point of reference. During the Elite Eight of March Madness this year you could hear people around the country whining that the Big East was too good, er big, placing 5 of their teams in the final 8.

YEAH! Wait, but the CAA won the title this year, the Big East didn't. :p


What's the big deal about the rings? Didn't both team win their respective divisions? xconfusedx

[ur2k]

I can't wait until the playoff expansion when the CAA gets 7 teams into the playoffs? Imagine the outcry when that happens. xarguex

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Sorry LFN, you didn't give me any reason to change my opinion. I just don't see how FCS is suffering because of the CAA. My compadres have already said just about everything I would have.

And I know you had to be facetious about the seven and not eight at-large teams comment. Nobody has ever stated anything that foolish. CAA people saying that five teams were deserved was accurate since W&M was the next team in. People looking ahead to a 20 team playoff seeing the CAA getting six bids are probably going to be right. As long as the at-large bids are given to the most deserving teams, multiple bids are going to the CAA as long as they continue to be successful in the playoffs, in OOC games, play well against FBS opponents, etc.

We understand the rest of FCS doesn't like that! We do get it!! But we're not going to dumb down our product either! Every other league in FCS has the opportunity to keep the CAA from getting those multiple bids! Start by spanking the CAA teams right out of the playoffs. Schedule and beat CAA teams in OOC games. Those two items right there will knock the CAA's ranking down unless we have significant success against FBS. Looking at last year, the SoCon had a chance to do serious damage to the CAA, but they didn't. If Elon beat Richmond instead of getting beat handily at home. If Georgia Southern had beat Northeastern handily at home instead of having to barely get to OT before winning. If Furman had beat Delaware by more than a couple of points. If those three things happened, then Elon or Liberty gets the bid and only four CAA teams would have. Those four remaining CAA teams made it to the Quarterfinals BTW. Guess they deserved to be there.

LFN, your Patriot League has ample opportunity to nudge an at-large bid away from the CAA. Your schools are in the same geographic footprint so there's no reason why you couldn't schedule more games with CAA teams. Just because Delaware won't schedule a home and home with Lehigh doesn't mean that there aren't CAA teams available. Do that and beat them and the Patriot has a good chance at an at-large bid. Based on last year's and this coming year's Patriot and Ivy schedules, IMHO the Patriot isn't attempting to build at large worthy consideration. If you're not viewed as a "power" conference, don't you have to beef up the OOC schedule for a better playoff resume? As long as the Ivy schedules weakly on the OOC front and the Patriot insists on playing so many games with Ivy, then you just don't get any "bump" come playoff selection time. IMHO, NEC teams are trying harder to get an at-large bid than any Patriot team.

And I'll remind you again that the Patriot League has had opportunities to include EVERY private school in the CAA, even one public one back in the late 80's!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

BTW, I don't know how many noticed this, but Maine yesterday suspended their men's soccer and women's volleyball program to save money. The America East Commissioner is the former Maine AD. He allegedly was given that position because he promised the AE Presidents that he would bring ice hockey and football under the AE umbrella. If there was any VIABLE alternative for football, don't you think Maine would have avoided these program cuts? (I'm sure everybody noticed those America East emblems on this year's national champion hockey team. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx)

[89Hen]

LFN, your Patriot League has ample opportunity to nudge an at-large bid away from the CAA. Your schools are in the same geographic footprint so there's no reason why you couldn't schedule more games with CAA teams. Just because Delaware won't schedule a home and home with Lehigh doesn't mean that there aren't CAA teams available. Do that and beat them and the Patriot has a good chance at an at-large bid.
FWIW the PL is 3-9 vs the CAA in the last two years with the wins coming over URI (2x) and Towson (former PL member).

Villanova 33 - Lehigh 14
Villanova 30 - Lehigh 20
UMass 35 - Colgate 17
Colgate 27 - Towson 17
UMass 45 - Holy Cross 42
UMass 40 - Holy Cross 30
Hofstra 45 - Bucknell 31
Richmond 45 - Bucknell 14
Fordham 16 - URI 0
Fordham 27 - URI 23

Playoffs
Villanova 55 - Colgate 28
UMass 49 - Fordham 35

xpeacex

[gophoenix]

Sorry LFN, you didn't give me any reason to change my opinion. I just don't see how FCS is suffering because of the CAA. My compadres have already said just about everything I would have.

And I know you had to be facetious about the seven and not eight at-large teams comment. Nobody has ever stated anything that foolish. CAA people saying that five teams were deserved was accurate since W&M was the next team in. People looking ahead to a 20 team playoff seeing the CAA getting six bids are probably going to be right. As long as the at-large bids are given to the most deserving teams, multiple bids are going to the CAA as long as they continue to be successful in the playoffs, in OOC games, play well against FBS opponents, etc.

We understand the rest of FCS doesn't like that! We do get it!! But we're not going to dumb down our product either! Every other league in FCS has the opportunity to keep the CAA from getting those multiple bids! Start by spanking the CAA teams right out of the playoffs. Schedule and beat CAA teams in OOC games. Those two items right there will knock the CAA's ranking down unless we have significant success against FBS. Looking at last year, the SoCon had a chance to do serious damage to the CAA, but they didn't. If Elon beat Richmond instead of getting beat handily at home. If Georgia Southern had beat Northeastern handily at home instead of having to barely get to OT before winning. If Furman had beat Delaware by more than a couple of points. If those three things happened, then Elon or Liberty gets the bid and only four CAA teams would have. Those four remaining CAA teams made it to the Quarterfinals BTW. Guess they deserved to be there.

LFN, your Patriot League has ample opportunity to nudge an at-large bid away from the CAA. Your schools are in the same geographic footprint so there's no reason why you couldn't schedule more games with CAA teams. Just because Delaware won't schedule a home and home with Lehigh doesn't mean that there aren't CAA teams available. Do that and beat them and the Patriot has a good chance at an at-large bid. Based on last year's and this coming year's Patriot and Ivy schedules, IMHO the Patriot isn't attempting to build at large worthy consideration. If you're not viewed as a "power" conference, don't you have to beef up the OOC schedule for a better playoff resume? As long as the Ivy schedules weakly on the OOC front and the Patriot insists on playing so many games with Ivy, then you just don't get any "bump" come playoff selection time. IMHO, NEC teams are trying harder to get an at-large bid than any Patriot team.

And I'll remind you again that the Patriot League has had opportunities to include EVERY private school in the CAA, even one public one back in the late 80's!

How far a team makes it in the playoffs doesn't mean they do/do not belong there and also doesn't mean that teams left out wouldn't do that. That's not an argument for any one team, but hypotheticals one way are just as bad as saying "they belong, look what they did"

The problem is a mysterious selection with no explanation or justification on selection criteria for at large bids. If the committee would detail solid parameters and publish their ranking system for at-large bids (and detail how/why regionalization, attendance and history apply to their formula) then we wouldn't be having the same arguments for 7 years now.

[GannonFan]

How far a team makes it in the playoffs doesn't mean they do/do not belong there and also doesn't mean that teams left out wouldn't do that. That's not an argument for any one team, but hypotheticals one way are just as bad as saying "they belong, look what they did"

The problem is a mysterious selection with no explanation or justification on selection criteria for at large bids. If the committee would detail solid parameters and publish their ranking system for at-large bids (and detail how/why regionalization, attendance and history apply to their formula) then we wouldn't be having the same arguments for 7 years now.

Of course, you can also go back 30 years and each year there is almost always one selection the committee makes that doesn't make a lot of sense to most observers. The term "Woffored" didn't come from nowhere. We will never, ever get an absolute criteria from the committee and frankly, one doesn't exist. When you're looking at filling the last at large bid in any playoff system you are always going to have to decide between teams that all have flawed resumes, and you'll always have to decide which flaws matter more in that given selection. Ain't no solid parameter or detailed explanation that will ever completely put the question to bed as to why another team wasn't more deserving.

[4th and What?]

How far a team makes it in the playoffs doesn't mean they do/do not belong there and also doesn't mean that teams left out wouldn't do that. That's not an argument for any one team, but hypotheticals one way are just as bad as saying "they belong, look what they did"

The problem is a mysterious selection with no explanation or justification on selection criteria for at large bids. If the committee would detail solid parameters and publish their ranking system for at-large bids (and detail how/why regionalization, attendance and history apply to their formula) then we wouldn't be having the same arguments for 7 years now.


To actually have a published formula for selecting bids. Hmmmm.....I believe that concept is used in a certain college football league.

I like the way the at-large bid selection goes. I don't always agree with it, but the way things are set up creates a lot of hope, drama, and excitement for many teams in the final weeks of the season and while the bids are chosen. It creates a lot of heartbreak as well, not to mention 50-page forum posts. It isn't perfect, but it is a hell of a ride.

[Wildcat80]

FWIW the PL is 3-9 vs the CAA in the last two years with the wins coming over URI (2x) and Towson (former PL member).

Villanova 33 - Lehigh 14
Villanova 30 - Lehigh 20
UMass 35 - Colgate 17
Colgate 27 - Towson 17
UMass 45 - Holy Cross 42
UMass 40 - Holy Cross 30
Hofstra 45 - Bucknell 31
Richmond 45 - Bucknell 14
Fordham 16 - URI 0
Fordham 27 - URI 23

Playoffs
Villanova 55 - Colgate 28
UMass 49 - Fordham 35

xpeacex

Fordham & Colgate WITH scholarships would be competitive. Colgate got to Chattanooga a few years back which alot of caa teams incl. UNH still have not done.

[crusader11]

Holy Cross, Lafayette, and others would not be competitive with schollies?

[Wildcat80]

Holy Cross, Lafayette, and others would not be competitive with schollies?

Gilmore-63 scholarships would elevate the entire league. I cited those two cause they had caa wins on the list. Alot of PL schools recruit nationwide but lose alot of talent to the Ivy or others without schollies. Talent would get an upgrade cause they would get some kids that want & deserve a scholarship.

[gophoenix]

Of course, you can also go back 30 years and each year there is almost always one selection the committee makes that doesn't make a lot of sense to most observers. The term "Woffored" didn't come from nowhere. We will never, ever get an absolute criteria from the committee and frankly, one doesn't exist. When you're looking at filling the last at large bid in any playoff system you are always going to have to decide between teams that all have flawed resumes, and you'll always have to decide which flaws matter more in that given selection. Ain't no solid parameter or detailed explanation that will ever completely put the question to bed as to why another team wasn't more deserving.

So then, to avoid all this mess, maybe only conference champs should be taken. If multiple champs exist, the playoffs can be modified that year for more games.

[soccerguy315]

So then, to avoid all this mess, maybe only conference champs should be taken. If multiple champs exist, the playoffs can be modified that year for more games.

how many playoffs in any sport have a variable number of games/rounds?

[blukeys]

My hats off to my fellow CAA fans. You have argued well against seriously flawed
arguments that pretend to advance a balanced agenda that is just pure CAA "size" envy.

It is apparent that there are some CAA haters out there that jump on every CAA thread to nitpick about how bad the CAA is for the world and should be disbanded just as many argued for the disbandment of the New York Yankees of the 50's and 60's.

It is interesting that the arguments come down to that the CAA arrangement is:

1. Bad for the CAA teams (although none of the teams want to leave the conference)
2. Bad for the playoffs (although the CAA has been a dominant force in the playoffs for the for the last 6 years)
3. And just plain bad because..........THEY ARE TOO BIG!!!xrolleyesxxrolleyesx

Well reason 3 gives us a clue as to some real motivations.

I think we are witnessing a CAA "size envy" problem.

We all know that those who don't "measure up" tend to want to cut down in size all that appear to be bigger and better. They all argue that size doesn't matter when in fact they envy the biggest and best. These are the guys who stand off by themselves when at the Wall in the TUB.

It is time we in the CAA community understand the problems of those who suffer from the CAA "size envy" conundrum. Yes many tell them that size doesn't matter but their attacks persist nonetheless. We should extend our sympathies and let the criticisms roll off our backs. We all know that they would gladly trade positions with us but they are afraid to admit is as they have comrades who share the "size envy" problem. xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmile y_wix

[bkrownd]

Can I have my good old Yankee Conference back now? Hmmm? These "superconference" things suck! I don't care if the CAA administers it, just give us a separate properly sized (7/8 team) regional conference with real yearly regional rivalries and a champion determined in TRUE round-robin style.

[Jackman]

I think at the FCS level you need to be a "superconference" to have any hope of gaining media attention or good TV deals. Individually the CAA North and CAA South would be regional conferences similar to everyone else in FCS. Together they add to each other's credibility, and promote the idea that this is not small-time, backwater football. Other FCS conferences would probably be wise to emulate the CAA's structure, although I don't know who the logical candidates for mergers would be. It's not our problem regardless. This is a very expensive venture, and we should be doing everything in our power to get the most out of our respective investments. What's the rest of FCS going to do for us if we break up the conference to our detriment?