Montana moving to FBS?

[Lumberjacks76]

Does Montana have any plans at moving up to I-A soon?

Paul

[SIUallDay]

They shouldn't.....what would Montana do in FBS?

[Lumberjacks76]

Montana dominates I-AA. They would be competitive in I-A as well. Maybe in the WAC or MWC.

Paul

[ASUG8]

Montana dominates I-AA. They would be competitive in I-A as well. Maybe in the WAC or MWC.

Paul

Montana has dominated Big Sky, has an excellent overall historical record and plays at a high level within FCS. That being said, I wouldn't say they should move up until we see domination in NC's over several consecutive years. You'd hate for them to become what Marshall has become. xnonono2x Plus, it's more fun having UM around in FCS. xthumbsupx

[darell1976]

Montana has dominated Big Sky, has an excellent overall historical record and plays at a high level within FCS. That being said, I wouldn't say they should move up until we see domination in NC's over several consecutive years. You'd hate for them to become what Marshall has become. xnonono2x Plus, it's more fun having UM around in FCS. xthumbsupx


They could replace Idaho.xlolx

[SIUallDay]

Montana has dominated Big Sky, has an excellent overall historical record and plays at a high level within FCS. That being said, I wouldn't say they should move up until we see domination in NC's over several consecutive years. You'd hate for them to become what Marshall has become. xnonono2x Plus, it's more fun having UM around in FCS. xthumbsupx

c/s the bolded

[SIUallDay]

They could replace Idaho.xlolx


and turn into another Idaho.......

[darell1976]

and turn into another Idaho.......


Is that possible.xlolx

[Lumberjacks76]

Idaho should never have moved up to I-A. They stink.

Paul

[IaaScribe]

Do you just start threads with official sounding names to hear yourself think?

[SIUallDay]

Is that possible.xlolx


Idaho is that bad?

[darell1976]

Idaho is that bad?


Idaho averages what a win a season. I don't think you can get any worse in 1-A

[Lumberjacks76]

Contrast that with Boise State, which has been very successful in the I-AA to I-A jump.

Paul

[Gil Dobie]

I'd like to see a picture of their stadium, to see if it would work for FBS. xeyebrowx

[Lumberjacks76]

Montana can hold 35,000 I think.

Paul

[Lumberjacks76]

I'd like to see a picture of their stadium, to see if it would work for FBS. xeyebrowx

http://www.montanagrizzlies.com/pages/default.aspx?p=50&m=208

25,200, my bad.

Paul

[eagle1]

He was being sarcastic my Lumberjack friend. We all are well aware of the splendor that is Washington-Grizzly Stadium xthumbsupx. Go Eagles!!!

[Casey_Orourke]

If Montana were to move up to the FBS level, I doubt the alumni would allow the program to sink to the level of an Idaho. That coupled with the prosprect of bringing FBS schools (especially ones from back east) into Missoula for home games would be an enticing prospect.

That coupled with the draw it would be for the alums of these schools who are having to work west of the big MUDDY, who may not be able to get back east for games, but could definately make a weekend trip to Montana for a game. The revenue for hotels and car rentals would be a financial boon to the area.

Much as I may dislike Montana's team, I don't begrudge them the opportunity to move up (i.e. GET THE H#LL OUT OF THE BIG SKY so other schools have a chance!xlolx)

[ValleyChamp]

What, no Montana fans in this thread or what?

[appmaj]

Does Montana have any plans at moving up to I-A soon?

Paul

Define soon...No one is moving anywhere for another couple of years
NCAA Rule

[structgrizz]

The "Montana moving to the FBS" question has been beaten to death. Most Montana fans, including me, are so sick of the discussion we just laugh it off. If UM has plans to move up, when the NCAA aloows, they have been awfully quiet about it to the local fans.

Lets hope they stay right where they are. Lets see a few more NC's before that talk starts. IMHO

[Lumberjacks76]

Montana is clearly superior to any Big Sky team out there year in and year out. That's why a move to FBS might prove good for both the conference and Montana.

Paul

[uofmman1122]

No, this thread is dumb.

It's been beaten to death, and afterwards it was found that it just wouldn't be economically feasible. Might be some day, but not right now.

I don't want to move up, anyways.

[Gil Dobie]

No, this thread is dumb.

It's been beaten to death, and afterwards it was found that it just wouldn't be economically feasible. Might be some day, but not right now.

I don't want to move up, anyways.

Would the Pac 10 let Montana rejoin? xoopsx ;)

[Lumberjacks76]

Montana would be successful in the WAC. I could see them transitioning to the WAC football conference by 2016.

Paul

[Bison101]

Montana would be successful in the WAC. I could see them transitioning to the WAC football conference by 2016.

Paul

Hawaii and Boise State would blow them out of the water!

[Lumberjacks76]

Hawai'i lost to Portland State in or around 2000, by a score of 45-20. That's 25 points! Boise State is on another level, though.

Paul

[93henfan]

Contrast that with Boise State, which has been very successful in the I-AA to I-A jump.

Paul

Connecticut has been decent as well, and they were horrid in I-AA.

Success in I-AA/FCS has little correlation to success in FBS it seems.

[Lumberjacks76]

Florida Atlantic made a quick transition to I-A ball and has done fairly well.

Paul

[Montanan]

it always comes down/back to money, for that reason alone a move up in the near future is unrealistic. besides, I for 1 like being a member of the FCS.

[GOKATS]

The "Montana moving to the FBS" question has been beaten to death. Most Montana fans, including me, are so sick of the discussion we just laugh it off. If UM has plans to move up, when the NCAA aloows, they have been awfully quiet about it to the local fans.

Lets hope they stay right where they are. Lets see a few more NC's before that talk starts. IMHO

I agree, this about the 11 billionth thread on the subject xnodx, but probably the first started by someone other than a griz fan............xsmiley_wix

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

I believe Montana needs a few more varsity level sports before we would even be allowed to move up.

[coover]

Montana DOESN'T WANT TO MOVE UP. And they'd be stupid if they did. They already virtually own the State of Montana, fan wise. Where would they get additional fans to add? And as far as recruiting goes, pretty much any State of Montana High School athlete capable of Division I football already prefers Montana over any of the other D I schools, FBS or FCS. If they go FBS, their football team won't get much better and they won't draw too many more fans. Why be a mediocre FBS team when they can be a superior FCS team year after year after year.

Montana to go FBS? You're dreaming.

[CrazyCat]

Montana DOESN'T WANT TO MOVE UP. And they'd be stupid if they did. They already virtually own the State of Montana, fan wise. Where would they get additional fans to add? And as far as recruiting goes, pretty much any State of Montana High School athlete capable of Division I football already prefers Montana over any of the other D I schools, FBS or FCS. If they go FBS, their football team won't get much better and they won't draw too many more fans. Why be a mediocre FBS team when they can be a superior FCS team year after year after year.

Montana to go FBS? You're dreaming.


So you think the Griz get the ones they want and MSU gets the leftovers?

[coover]

So you think the Griz get the ones they want and MSU gets the leftovers?

Yep! That's about it!

[CrazyCat]

Yep! That's about it!

I don't know were to begin, I could possibly answer with a personal attack questioning the intelligence of the post but I don't want to get banned. I'll just fake laughter at what certainly is a failed attempt at humor. xlolx

[Seawolf97]

If Montana were to move up to the FBS level, I doubt the alumni would allow the program to sink to the level of an Idaho. That coupled with the prosprect of bringing FBS schools (especially ones from back east) into Missoula for home games would be an enticing prospect.

That coupled with the draw it would be for the alums of these schools who are having to work west of the big MUDDY, who may not be able to get back east for games, but could definately make a weekend trip to Montana for a game. The revenue for hotels and car rentals would be a financial boon to the area.

Much as I may dislike Montana's team, I don't begrudge them the opportunity to move up (i.e. GET THE H#LL OUT OF THE BIG SKY so other schools have a chance!xlolx)

I think that would one big draw having home games against Big 10 or Big 12 teams or the service academies. Other than that it could be a rough climb to FBS.

[Green26]

No, Montana is not planning to move up, and doesn't want to move up.

The AD and President have said on multiple occasions that they don't plan to move up and like being where they are.

The vast majority of fans like things the way they are. There are some vocal types on message boards who pooh pooh the Big Sky and I-AA, and think UM should move up. There are probably a few more of them than there used to be.

There are many reasons for UM not to move up. They have been debated endlessly on egriz.com, and considered from time to time by the athletic department and main hall (where the president's office is).

If I-AA starts to fall apart, if the ncaa re-aligns, or something else big starts to happen, UM will keep its eyes open and act accordingly.

The more recent and relevant question is whether NAU is going to be able to stay in the Big Sky and keep football--due to apparent financial concerns.

[mvemjsunpx]

Montana football would probably end up somewhere between the BSU and Idaho extremes if they moved up. UM obviously has a better athletics foundation than UI, but Missoula doesn't have Boise's large corporate base to milk donations out of. I'm thinking the end result would be something more like Nevada: average & forgotten.

At the moment, I don't support UM moving up since FBS doesn't have playoffs and the mid-major bowls are largely worthless (Oooh! Let's play a bowl in Boise! Hooray!!!). The effect on the athletics budget would probably be a wash since fewer home games, higher recruiting costs, and the necessity of adding more sports would likely offset increased TV/bowl revenue from a bigger conference.

If the Griz moved up, though, I would argue that they should go Mountain West or bust. For football, either the MWC or WAC is alright because, while the MWC is a better fit regionally, the WAC has several relative patsies that could help the W/L record and bowl eligibility. However, moving to the WAC in basketball is hardly an upgrade over the Big Sky at all. The Mountain West is considerably better than the Big Sky in both men's & women's basketball, but the WAC is only marginally better in MBB and isn't any better at all in WBB. In other words, the WAC would essentially be no change for the women's team while it would actually hurt the men's team's chances at an NCAA bid since it's tougher than the Big Sky, but still primarily a one-bid league.

[mtgrizfan4life]

I doubt we will see many GRIZ fans comment on this here or anywhere. It has been beat to death at EGRIZ and all around Missoula for a long time now. If anyone wants to stir the pot on EGRIZ, this is the subject that does it. I personally like the subject, but prefer to see it discussed beyond just GRIZ fans. I feel more college football fans actually think we would represent well at a higher level. As for GRIZ fans, a few years back it was about 25% for the move. Now though, it closer to 40% for the move.

In my opinion, the ones supporting the move are younger than early 40's. To a few older GRIZ fans, this subject is taboo and should not even be considered, let alone mentioned. Personally, I am 100% for the move up. However, I respect the factors keeping us from the move. I think many fans and even the athletic department is ready for the move. However, the reality of it, is the economy and finances are not ready for the move, yet.

Montana needs alot more corporations to get behind this financially. There are a few good companies there, but not enough to accomodate the move. There is talk of other corporations moving into western Montana, but not enough soon enough. Financially, your average family makes 30k to 40k per year, and property near Missoula is expensive in comparison to incomes. The better priced property is quite a drive to/from Missoula, meaning alot of gas money to support the programs.

Football is king in Montana, regardless of who you are a fan of. I feel basketball would be greatly benefitted in a move up. All programs other than football would be positively impacted. I for one would love to see better competition for the GRIZ in football and basketball. I feel, we have the fan base to support the move. I just do not know to what financial levels our fans could support the move.

When is all said and done, I feel the GRIZ will move up. However, that time will not be in the next 5 years, unless forced to do so. The GRIZ are preparing for the day it does come. When that day does come, they will be in great position. Rest assure the move will be well planned out and will be well prepared for. I am willing to wait for that day, knowing when it does come , the GRIZ will be successful for it.

Either way, I love and support THE GRIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BearsCountry]

All of Montana's other programs would benefit greatly from joining WAC.

[Green26]

This statement is not accurate: "As for GRIZ fans, a few years back it was about 25% for the move. Now though, it closer to 40% for the move."

Even judged by occasional polls on egriz, 40% is rarely reached. The majority of fans like things the way they are and don't even consider moving up.

[trouthunter]

I have a hard time believing that this could ever be economically feasible. I would love to see my 'Griz move up, but travel logistics would be a nightmare. Air travel into/out of Montana alone would make this cost prohibitive.

[JALMOND]

From what I had heard over the years from the university, the Montana Board of Regents and the Big Sky Conference is that if (and a pretty big if) Montana wanted to move up to an FBS conference, they would have to take the Griz in all sports, including mens and womens basketball. The conference would also have to take Montana State in all sports to keep both major Montana universities in the same conference. This would involve a total succession of both Montana universities from the conference that bears the Montana nickname, as well as upgrades in not only football, but all other sports as well. The Montana Board of Regents have made it perfectly clear, going back to the early '80s when the Cats were the strong football team, that any conference that wanted one of the Montana universities had to take the other as well and in all sports. I don't think this way of thinking has changed.

[mtgrizfan4life]

This statement is not accurate: "As for GRIZ fans, a few years back it was about 25% for the move. Now though, it closer to 40% for the move."

Even judged by occasional polls on egriz, 40% is rarely reached. The majority of fans like things the way they are and don't even consider moving up.

You are right, surprisingly enough I was wrong. The last poll I found on EGRIZ went like this. So it was actually higher than I thought. That was from eGRIZ in April 08. Wow A year without any move up polls there. AMAZING. Is it time to start a new poll? Granted this is only from an EGRIZ poll. As for actual % outside of EGRIZ, to my knowledge there has not been any poll conducted.

Of GRIZ fans I talk to, I would say the percentage is at worse 35% for the move. I think my 40% guess is pretty close though. If you do not agree, fine you are entitled to your opinion. In the last 5 years the percentage of people for the move have increased quite drastically. For those in favor of staying, they hate seeing the margin narrow and try to nip it in the bud before it goes too far. Sort of like you just posted earlier.

Move up to the FBS, or not?

FBS 54% FCS 46%

Just in case you think I am making this up. Here is the link.

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/topic30963.php?t=30963

[Ronbo]

You beat me to it. xlolx The last poll at eGriz showed the FBS crowd had grown and passed the "Let's play Southern Utah every year" crowd by a large margin.

[mtgrizfan4life]

You beat me to it. xlolx The last poll at eGriz showed the FBS crowd had grown and passed the "Let's play Southern Utah every year" crowd by a large margin.

Ronbo, should we prepare AGS for the rash of "Lets stay" backers. They can get nasty. At least on egriz they do.

Rather you are for it or not, the gap has narrowed and it really set off the lets stay backers.

[Lumberjacks76]

That would be like how Arizona and Arizona State got into the PAC-10 in 1977. They took them up in all sports.

Paul

[CrunchGriz]

Last year I did a rough estimate of the economic feasibility of UM moving to FCS (which would be to either the WAC or to the MWC, almost certainly the WAC).

The conclusion I came to, taking into consideration the increases in cost in football scholarships, scholarships for new sports (to comply with Title IX), coaches' salaries, and necessary facilities upgrades, as well as the increases in revenue from several sources, including TV revenues and conference affiliation revenues, was that Montana would need an additional approximately $10 million in annual revenues to be competitive in the WAC, let alone the MWC.

Where this amount of money would come from in these hard economic times is anybody's guess. I have grave doubts that the Missoula area, or even the wider base of Montana alumni and backers, has this type of revenue in reserve to fund this cost on an ongoing basis. To use the example of the program that UM would have to try to emulate, Missoula does not have the corporate muscle that Boise does, so the extra revenues can't come from that source.

Maybe the Missoula/Kalispell area will have a resurgence when the economy finally turns around again, and a couple of larger corporations will settle there. That seems unlikely, if only for the aforementioned transportation issues--Montana is a long way from almost every decent-sized market in the country. Unless and until that happens, though, the funds just don't seem to be there to make it happen.

[Ronbo]

Last year I did a rough estimate of the economic feasibility of UM moving to FCS (which would be to either the WAC or to the MWC, almost certainly the WAC).

The conclusion I came to, taking into consideration the increases in cost in football scholarships, scholarships for new sports (to comply with Title IX), coaches' salaries, and necessary facilities upgrades, as well as the increases in revenue from several sources, including TV revenues and conference affiliation revenues, was that Montana would need an additional approximately $10 million in annual revenues to be competitive in the WAC, let alone the MWC.

Where this amount of money would come from in these hard economic times is anybody's guess. I have grave doubts that the Missoula area, or even the wider base of Montana alumni and backers, has this type of revenue in reserve to fund this cost on an ongoing basis. To use the example of the program that UM would have to try to emulate, Missoula does not have the corporate muscle that Boise does, so the extra revenues can't come from that source.

Maybe the Missoula/Kalispell area will have a resurgence when the economy finally turns around again, and a couple of larger corporations will settle there. That seems unlikely, if only for the aforementioned transportation issues--Montana is a long way from almost every decent-sized market in the country. Unless and until that happens, though, the funds just don't seem to be there to make it happen.

Equity in Athletics June 2007-June 2008

FOOTBALL INCOME AND EXPENSES

Nevada - WAC Conference - Approximately 20,000 per game attendance, average ticket price $20.

Gross Income $5,498,629
Gross Expenses $5,032,369
Net Profit $466,260

Montana - Big Sky Conference - Approximately 25,000 attendance, average ticket price $31.

Gross Income $6,074,670
Gross Expenses $4,302,305
Net Profit $1,772,365

Looks like we can afford the move. We make plenty of money. Note that Nevada should only make 2 1/2 Million gate but they make 5 1/2 million gross profit. TV and Bowl money!

[GtFllsGriz]

I'm with "4life" on this one. I think the percentage is higher than most think because many of us don't post on egriz all the time even though we have an opinion.

4life said it all very well and I agree totally with his thinking. It will happen someday so I think the powers are being patient and doing it right. When the current system crumbles and the NCAA begins changing things we will be ready to make a very thought out and well planned move.

For now,,,,,,,,,,,let's get after another championship!

[Montanan]

Ronbo, should we prepare AGS for the rash of "Lets stay" backers. They can get nasty. At least on egriz they do.

Rather you are for it or not, the gap has narrowed and it really set off the lets stay backers.

wha-da-ya know, didn't set anyone off! xlolxxlolxxconfusedxxlolxxlolx

[CrunchGriz]

Equity in Athletics June 2007-June 2008

FOOTBALL INCOME AND EXPENSES

Nevada - WAC Conference - Approximately 20,000 per game attendance, average ticket price $20.

Gross Income $5,498,629
Gross Expenses $5,032,369
Net Profit $466,260

Montana - Big Sky Conference - Approximately 25,000 attendance, average ticket price $31.

Gross Income $6,074,670
Gross Expenses $4,302,305
Net Profit $1,772,365

Looks like we can afford the move. We make plenty of money. Note that Nevada should only make 2 1/2 Million gate but they make 5 1/2 million gross profit. TV and Bowl money!

Ronbo, not to be harsh, but your numbers are very superficial and don't take many important factors into account.

Here's the link for the spreadsheet I put together on this. Check it out, and if you want to argue about any of the numbers, at least we'll be dealing with the same set of realities that have to be dealt with.

Link: Google Docs Spreadsheet on UM Move to FBS (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_mLAa1mQoRXkqbX1Id1aCw&hl=en)

[Green26]

The cited egriz "poll" shows that 72 posters (some of whom are not even Griz fans) support moving up.

What about the other several hundred thousand Griz fans?

Most of the egriz polls are silly. Many people, including myself, don't bother to look at them, let alone vote in them. In my view, they are virtually meaningless, like the "The guy on the bar stool next to me...." ones.

[Native]

The cited egriz "poll" shows that 72 posters (some of whom are not even Griz fans) support moving up.

What about the other several hundred thousand Griz fans?

Most of the egriz polls are silly. Many people, including myself, don't bother to look at them, let alone vote in them. In my view, they are virtually meaningless, like the "The guy on the bar stool next to me...." ones.

Aha! ...the silent majority! xrolleyesx

[mtgrizfan4life]

The cited egriz "poll" shows that 72 posters (some of whom are not even Griz fans) support moving up.

What about the other several hundred thousand Griz fans?

Most of the egriz polls are silly. Many people, including myself, don't bother to look at them, let alone vote in them. In my view, they are virtually meaningless, like the "The guy on the bar stool next to me...." ones.

Earlier in this thread you said
This statement is not accurate: "As for GRIZ fans, a few years back it was about 25% for the move. Now though, it closer to 40% for the move."

Even judged by occasional polls on egriz, 40% is rarely reached. The majority of fans like things the way they are and don't even consider moving up.

Amazing how someone shows the latest and only poll is over 40% the poll is termed meaningless by you. I do agree with you, the poll is meaningless at this stage or as long as the University refuses to look further into this subject. The proponents of staying hate the fact that margin is closing and the percentage of those behind moving up is increasing every year. In time, when the younger generations of GRIZ fans have the money, number, and more power, they will have to at the very least weigh the option more. They will have to address the issue more than just the standard. "We are happy where we are at." stand.

I know many GRIZ fans and U of M Graduates under 40 making very good incomes and refuse to donate more $ until and unless the money goes toward moving up. A handful of these are former GRIZ that have graduated within the last 10 to 15 years.

I also agree with you regarding fans that are not part of EGRIZ, the rest of GRIZNATION. I think if all GRIZ fans were legitimately polled or asked for their feedback, I think the % supporting the move would be higher than the anti move people would like. In my opinion, that is exactly why the U of M does not support more feasible research on this. They simply do not want to face the reality of dealing with most controversial subject for the university. As evidenced here, and EGRIZ, this is the one subject that splits GRIZNATION more than any subject.

Just because many fans are not part of message boards and fan sites does not mean they do not care. I am sure the majority of them have an opinion one way or the other on this issue. There is no way of knowing one way or the other, but I think the demographics EGRIZ is pretty accurate of GRIZNATION as a whole.

The reality of this is probably somewhere between the 25% and the more recent 46% on EGRIZ, so 35% to 40% I feel is pretty accurate guess of the percentage supporting the move.

I do not understand your stand on other teams fans voting. I think that would be 50/50. For every fanbase that wants to see us move on, there is a fan that does not want to lose a traditional rival, or lose the biggest fanbase that supports the BigSky conference. The conference would be hurting alot more financially if the GRIZ were no longer part of it. It would take along time to replace that revenue and avid fan support than it would for any other program in the conference.

[Green26]

I stand by my original statement, and believe it was entirely accurate. While you are entitled to your opinion, I think you're dreaming.

As for donors, I know most of the big supporters of football and they generally don't support moving up.

In any event, under the present circumstances, neither the president, AD or board of regents would support moving up. Among other things, they realize that the cost would be very significant and a move-up would risk ruining a great thing and run the risk of causing attendance and football revenues decline over time.

[coover]

I don't know were to begin, I could possibly answer with a personal attack questioning the intelligence of the post but I don't want to get banned. I'll just fake laughter at what certainly is a failed attempt at humor. xlolx

There wasn't any humor intended about the answer. I've been to Montana during the football season and Montana State is simply an afterthought in almost everyone's minds (outside of Bozeman). It's a shame, because the Montana State staff really attempts to put a quality team on the field. But the University of Montana throws a huge shadow over the Montana State program. The Montana State program really is number 2.

Now if you wish to attempt to insult me with an answer putting down my school, Cal Poly, I'll be the first to tell you that few folks in California have any interest in collegiate football outside of the PAC-10 (and "outside of the PAC-10" includes the WAC and Mountain West schools). Most folks don't even know that Cal Poly even has a football program, and if they do, assume it is barely above the Junior College level with sub-par players (of course, they are wrong). Montana State football, in Montana, probably has more respect that Cal Poly football does in California.

[mtgrizfan4life]

I stand by my original statement, and believe it was entirely accurate. While you are entitled to your opinion, I think you're dreaming.

As for donors, I know most of the big supporters of football and they generally don't support moving up.

In any event, under the present circumstances, neither the president, AD or board of regents would support moving up. Among other things, they realize that the cost would be very significant and a move-up would risk ruining a great thing and run the risk of causing attendance and football revenues decline over time.


I understand the reasoning for staying put. However, there is not anyway you, I, or anyone can proof the percentages being low, as you think they are or somewhere near the 40% I am guessing. I know, according to you, you are the appointed spokeperson for GRIZNATION. I know you know everyone in GRIZNATION. Get off your highhorse in stating you know your original statement is accurate. It is accurate only in your mind.

The only feedback we have as for fan polls is the one stated here. That clearly supports the % much higher than 25%, closer to 50% actually. Regardless of what the percentages are, the gap is narrowing, and those in favor of moving up are increasing every year.

In time that percentage will be to the point where the U of M will have to consider moving on. That time will be when Dennison is out of office, and younger generations are the middle aged generation and the current middle generation is the older generation. Like it or not this move is within 20 years of happening. Could be sooner if the NCAA makes the changes I feel they will make in the next decade.

The GRIZ program is to the point where it will have fan support either way. There are many, such as myself that support the GRIZ at either level, and will not jump ship. For those threatening to jump ship, go ahead. There are other potential supporters out there to replace them. A few of which I know would be 6 to 7 digit contributors/donors if they were to move.

This is turning out exactly like EGRIZ. Someone adamently backing a stay refusing to listen or even consider the other side of this. As evidenced by your holier than thou statement of you being right. Fine, be right as you think you are for yourself. Do not go speaking for GRIZNATION as a whole that are not participating in online interactions. You nor I know how they think nor can back what either is saying. We both know people on each side of the debate supporting our own opinions. I do not mind you staying committed to your opinion, but do not come off as it is the only opinion that matters, and because it is your opinion it is the only right opinion. My God it never amazes how you think you are more powerful than anyone here or EGRIZ.

The cold hard truth is, to many you come off as an arrogant (fill in the blank). Nobody here or on EGRIZ care who you know or how much you contribute. With that said, I appreciate every GRIZ fan, but can we just leave it at agreeing to disagree on this? This is an issue where there is not a right or wrong side or answers. Is it too difficult for both sides to respect one another?

[Green26]

Goodness goodness, MGF4L. You state some percentages. I then say I disagree. And now you are spewing this stuff, and trying to get personal.

Again, I will say that the vast majority of UM fans either don't support moving up or don't care. The UM athletic knows this.

I call BS to this statement of yours: "A few of which I know would be 6 to 7 digit contributors/donors if they were to move."

Virtually every UM supporter with the potential to give at this level is already giving. There aren't non-supporters out there who would give $100,000 or $1 million is UM moved up. Jeez, how many UM athletic supporters have ever given $1 million? Obviously, a bogus statement from a low horse poster.

[mtgrizfan4life]

Green we do not know eachother and we do not know who we know. I do know a few potential high dollar contributors that will not contribute more unless the GRIZ move up. Fact is you do not know everyone like you think you do.

Until they move up there are some fans out there that will continue to do no more than attending games, even though they could quite comfortably afford to be GSA members. They do not want to pay for mediocrity and want more value for their dollar. I happen to fall into the later category as do many of my friends and classmates.

As for the 1st category, the GRIZ are missing out on a few higher dollar contributors, and those people will come forward when and if we ever get serious about moving. I will leave it at that.

We obviously are at the opposite end of the spectrum on wanting this to happen. I know we both are avid GRIZ fans, and will not call you a liar, but do not appreciate calling me one.

It really bothers you there are more people behind this than there used to be. I am behind this, but not until the time is right. That time is not tomorrow or anytime in the next few years. As I said earlier, I feel the university is taking its time for this and will be prepared when that time comes. When that time does come, you will see a few more high dollar contributors come to the forefront.

I do not find that so outrageous. Every program that has moved up over the last 20 years had new contributors step up after the move was made. Why do you find that so hard to believe?

I am sure there are fans of all FCS programs that know people that could contribute more financially if their teams were to move up or play better competition. I am sure there are other AGers that are in position to do more financially for their programs, but do not because of the level they play at. I really would like to hear from AGers that can understand this mindset or know of fans holding back unless said program steps it up.

Many on AGs will certainly agree that the GRIZ reputation is one that very seldom steps it up in terms of out of conference competition. After all, what is wrong wanting better competition or striving for higher for your favorite program? I find nothing wrong with it, and should not be condemned by the likes of you for wanting that.

[Green26]

This is a pretty funny para.:

"Green we do not know eachother and we do not know who we know. I do know a few potential high dollar contributors that will not contribute more unless the GRIZ move up. Fact is you do not know everyone like you think you do."

First, you say we don't know who we know. Then, you say I don't know everyone I'd like to know. I thought you just said we don't know who each other know. If so, how can you then indicate that you know who I don't know? Too funny.

Sorry, I just don't believe there are 7 figure donors lurking and waiting for UM to move up.

Has there ever been a 7 figure donation for football, other than Denny Washington's in-kind donation in connection with building the stadium? The new turf cost just under 7 figures. John Hoyt made a good donation for office, etc. renovations years ago, but I don't know if it reached 7 figures. There was a major backer for the NEZ expansion, but I believe it was more of a financial guarantee ahead of UM's financing and not a cash donation.

[Silenoz]

Montana DOESN'T WANT TO MOVE UP. And they'd be stupid if they did. They already virtually own the State of Montana, fan wise. Where would they get additional fans to add? And as far as recruiting goes, pretty much any State of Montana High School athlete capable of Division I football already prefers Montana over any of the other D I schools, FBS or FCS. If they go FBS, their football team won't get much better and they won't draw too many more fans. Why be a mediocre FBS team when they can be a superior FCS team year after year after year.

Montana to go FBS? You're dreaming.
Although I'm torn on whether or not I'd like to see us move up on day, your thoughts on recruiting match my own: we already get everyone in the state we want, would a move to the WAC make that much difference as far as getting out-of-state star recruits?

[GOKATS]

Although I'm torn on whether or not I'd like to see us move up on day, your thoughts on recruiting match my own: we already get everyone in the state we want, would a move to the WAC make that much difference as far as getting out-of-state star recruits?

If you're really delusional enough to think the griz get every Montana kid they want it's time for you to lay off the kool-aid a bit.xnodx

xhomerx

[Silenoz]

If you're really delusional enough to think the griz get every Montana kid they want it's time for you to lay off the kool-aid a bit.xnodx

xhomerx

The point was I don't think a move from FCS to FBS is going to change much as far as in-state recruiting

Now if only AGS provided a pic with a "Sensitive much?" speech bubble...

[DuckDuckGriz]

If you're really delusional enough to think the griz get every Montana kid they want it's time for you to lay off the kool-aid a bit.xnodx

xhomerx

I get your point GOKATS, but it's really hard to prove otherwise.

UM cleaned up in MT recruiting this year.

[Montanan]

i hear there's a movement in place, by more Griz Goin-FBS supporters, that will implement a virtual FBS membership in either the WAC/MWC. who wouldn't be excited about that? personally, i'm holding back my kiester sized donation(s) for the osmosis FBS membership! xnodxxlolxxnodx

[Lumberjacks76]

There would need to be a BCS-level team in Montana. Just for the revenue standpoint. I can't imagine either Montana schools raking in millions of dollars each year on a shoe-string budget.

Paul

[JDC325]

Montana dominates I-AA. They would be competitive in I-A as well. Maybe in the WAC or MWC.

Paul

Agree, they have the support and a great foundation. They could easily jump up if they wanted and have a bright future. Bottom line they would more likely be the next Boise than Idaho. If they want to or not is another question. You think they would eventually get bored at this level with as big as they are.

[griz8791]

xbangx

[already123]

as much as I hate to say it, I think having Montana in FCS is good for the division. Having a recognizable name helps FCS gain some notariety and respect, IMO

I think the Griz are good for FCS

[Lumberjacks76]

The Griz just always seem to have their stuff every season.

Paul

[JDC325]

as much as I hate to say it, I think having Montana in FCS is good for the division. Having a recognizable name helps FCS gain some notariety and respect, IMO

I think the Griz are good for FCS

Agreed but the opposite can not be said. They pull the FCS up but the FCS limits their growth potential. However if the majority of UM folks do not care about moving up so be it. For me I would want to eventually see what I cound do at the next level, they have really nothing to prove at this level anymore.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Agreed but the opposite can not be said. They pull the FCS up but the FCS limits their growth potential. However if the majority of UM folks do not care about moving up so be it. For me I would want to eventually see what I cound do at the next level, they have really nothing to prove at this level anymore.

I agree. Montana would be a good fit in the WAC as they could build rivalries with Boise St., Idaho and Utah St. Other annual games with Nevada, Fresno St., NMSU would be interesting. And the kids get 2 trips to Hawaii in the late fall over 4 years. Still room on the schedule for games with regional schools such as Wyoming, Colorado, Colorado St, Air Force, Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Utah, BYU. And perhaps an FCS game with an old Big Sky foe.

[Lumberjacks76]

How far in advance are schedules set?

Paul

[henfan]

I doubt the USC Trojans have much to prove to the FBS but they're not moving to the AFC West anytime soon.

With university athletics, it's not about "proving" anything, blah, blah, blah. It's about synching an athletic mission with an institutional mission. Montana isn't likely to reclassify its athletic programs until/unless it suits the overall mission of the school. Alas, it's more than about FB... or, at least, it should be.

[jmufan999]

Montana dominates I-AA. They would be competitive in I-A as well. Maybe in the WAC or MWC.

Paul

hahahaha i haven't even read any of the threads past this, but i bet you got absolutely KILLED making a statement like that.

[LakesBison]

Please let MONTANA & NDSU get into the WAC and start playing FBS in 3-5 years!

That would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TIGHT!!

[GOKATS]

Please let MONTANA & NDSU get into the WAC and start playing FBS in 3-5 years!

That would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TIGHT!!

NDSU has only been playoff eligible in the FCS for one year and flopped- you've got a long ways to go to prove anything. Montana is a proven product in the FCS, but wouldn't do squat in the FBS and the majority of their fans know it.

Dream on little broomstick cowboy.............:)

[LakesBison]

last year was an abberration.

and NDSU going FBS has more to do with MONEY and EXPOSURE!


NDSU and their President and AD want FBS I believe.


especially with the taste of the BIG DANCE in bball, more "SAVVY" boosters like me want bigger and better things and only stay in FCS for 3-5 years.

A NFL player asked this question of the AD last year, so there's discussion if WAC would take all sports.. MY GOD MONTANA and NDSU should go!!



Big Sky could take SDSU to replace

[Kid Dakota]

last year was an abberration.

and NDSU going FBS has more to do with MONEY and EXPOSURE!


NDSU and their President and AD want FBS I believe.


especially with the taste of the BIG DANCE in bball, more "SAVVY" boosters like me want bigger and better things and only stay in FCS for 3-5 years.

A NFL player asked this question of the AD last year, so there's discussion if WAC would take all sports.. MY GOD MONTANA and NDSU should go!!



Big Sky could take SDSU to replace


The BS could have USD as SDSU has a better thing going.

[LakesBison]

what the heck does that mean?

[ncbears]

last year was an abberration.

and NDSU going FBS has more to do with MONEY and EXPOSURE!


NDSU and their President and AD want FBS I believe.


especially with the taste of the BIG DANCE in bball, more "SAVVY" boosters like me want bigger and better things and only stay in FCS for 3-5 years.

A NFL player asked this question of the AD last year, so there's discussion if WAC would take all sports.. MY GOD MONTANA and NDSU should go!!



Big Sky could take SDSU to replace


There is "talk" because an NFL player asked about it? You're a fool.

[LakesBison]

he aint the ONLY one, he just gives a ton of money.

you're the fool being a UNC fan, hilarious!!

NDSU and MONTANA should both make a run at the WAC. period!

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I love the Montana program and like seeing them succeed. And it's not about titles for them to have fan support.

But over the past decade, I look at the Big Sky and then I look at the WAC and I wouldn't be angry is Montana moved to FBS. The WAC now has a better regional footprint than in the years after the MWC split. The problem for the WAC has been lack of available schools from the region to join. And then when you look at the Big Sky, it is, well, a bit top-heavy.

In the past I would have been against this lineup of schools, but now think I could stomach it if all parties made strides in the next 5-10 years:

Montana
Montana St.
Idaho
Boise St.
Utah St.
Nevada
Fresno St.
San Jose St.
New Mexico St.
Hawaii

Of course, Weber St. would go well with Utah St. as an 11th (or 12th if LA Tech was still there).


But all in all, Montana is really the key. They are in a good situation now with little need to change. Should they choose one day to play again against the likes of Idaho, Boise St, Nevada, Utah St, etc, they'd still be some entertaining matchups.

[Green Laser]

Montana has a great FCS football program and might beat some teams in the FBS.

If Montana is serious about moving up they should start playing some decent FBS teams to see where they stack up. I know that they are in the position to not have to take FBS money games like most of the rest of us, but it would be a good indicator to their fans and administration how competitive they would be in say the WAC or MWC.

The second part is that since a FBS conference is unlikely to invite a school on the basis of their football success alone, Montana needs to do some major work on the rest of their sports. Montana only has 6 men's sports and 8 women's sports, and many of them are not competitive even in the Big Sky Conference. They do not even field a baseball or softball team. Last year in the Big Sky Montana won only two chanpionships, football and women's basketball. By contrast other teams winning Big Sky Team Championships were Sacramento State 6/ Northern Arizona 4/ Portland State 2 and Eastern Washington 1.
http://www.bigskyconf.com/Sports/general/2008/Reigningchamps.asp?nl=12?tab=champs

I think that the Grizz are a perfect fit for the BSC. I know that all of the rest of the BSC football teams are struggling to close the gap but that makes evryone's program better.

[laxVik]

If Montana is serious about moving up they should start playing some decent FBS teams to see where they stack up. Ha! That's funny. Seeing how UM never travels what FBS team would play them at home?

[UAalum72]

Montana only has 6 men's sports and 8 women's sports,
FBS requires sixteen sports. I'd assume UM would add men's soccer or golf because the facilities are already there, and a women's sport for balance - softball?

[Green Laser]

Ha! That's funny. Seeing how UM never travels what FBS team would play them at home?

Thats the point, the answer is none.

Montana can schedule lesser opponents at home, sell out and make as much money as most of the rest of our teams can make playing at a FBS school and taking the check. But if they are really interested in moving up it would be a good measuring stick to play a decent FBS school. They won't be as dominate as they are playing lesser teams and Montana fans and the administration will have to decide if they want them to be mid pack in FBS or continue to be the top BSC football team and in the payoffs every year.

[GOKATS]

xblahblahxxblahblahxxboringxxdeadhorsex

[Montanan]

xblahblahxxblahblahxxboringxxdeadhorsex

got'a cut'em some slack, it's all they got xnodx. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x102/Montanan_1/ignore-button1.gifxnodx

[JDC325]

I doubt the USC Trojans have much to prove to the FBS but they're not moving to the AFC West anytime soon.

With university athletics, it's not about "proving" anything, blah, blah, blah. It's about synching an athletic mission with an institutional mission. Montana isn't likely to reclassify its athletic programs until/unless it suits the overall mission of the school. Alas, it's more than about FB... or, at least, it should be.

Last I checked it was not possible for a college team to move up the the NFL..xrulesx However it is possible for a team that has been the gold standard in consistency in this division to move up and keep growing. I would hope any University's goal is to be at the top in any category. How in the world would UM football team moving up hurt the long term strategic plan of the Biology department or any other part of the academic side of the University anyway? FAU did a horrible job in jumping up and they are growing and planning like there is no tomorrow.

[LakesBison]

Montana and NDSU to the WAC.

keep talking to the A.D's and President's, we would be sweet travel partners!

[ncbears]

Montana and NDSU to the WAC.

keep talking to the A.D's and President's, we would be sweet travel partners!

Won't happen. Not that many people outside of ND know you even have a college football team.

[GannonFan]

Montana and NDSU to the WAC.

keep talking to the A.D's and President's, we would be sweet travel partners!

Do schools even care about "travel partners" anymore? It's not like schools join up to share charters or the like, and in many cases, schools that are "travel partners" are still so far apart that there's no real benefit to be had in terms of travel savings. People throw that term out all the time but it never seems to make any practical sense.

[jmufan999]

Nevada - WAC Conference - Approximately 20,000 per game attendance.

Montana - Big Sky Conference - Approximately 25,000 attendance, average ticket price $31.

um, except those numbers aren't correct.

2008 numbers:
Nevada averaged 26,781
Montana averaged 23,923

so you rounded one school up by 1,000 and the other down by nearly 7,000.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/attendance/FBS_ATTENDANCE.pdf
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2008/Internet/attendance/FCS_CAPACITY.pdf

[yosef1969]

Do schools even care about "travel partners" anymore? It's not like schools join up to share charters or the like, and in many cases, schools that are "travel partners" are still so far apart that there's no real benefit to be had in terms of travel savings. People throw that term out all the time but it never seems to make any practical sense.

Only if it strengthens their position (whatever that may be)...

"travel partners" are nothing more than a red herring at this point.

[Green26]

In 2008, Montana averaged almost 25,000 (about 24,900) for the 7 regular season games, and about 20,500 for the 2 playoff games.

Historically, Montana's playoff game attendance is less than regular season attendance, and Montana rarely sells out a playoff game. This is due to season tickets covering only regular season games (and thus fans have to affirmatively buy playoff tickets), students not being in session over Thanksgiving weekend, hunting seasons, colder weather, people literally running out of gas and money to continue to drive from all over the state to games, the start up of winter high school sports, etc.

[CopperCat]

Montana and NDSU to the WAC.

keep talking to the A.D's and President's, we would be sweet travel partners!

Are you kidding me? NDSU only won 4 conference games last year, finishing just ahead of MISSOURI STATE. Prove yourself in your conference over the next 20+ years, then you can talk about moving up to the WAC.

[mtgrizfan4life]

This subject is getting more interesting now, especially with talks in the last year of NAU and EWU possibly losing football. Here is the link to this subject at EGRIZ. We have been doing good keeping this one thread going for better than a year now.

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30963

[CrunchGriz]

Montana and NDSU to the WAC.

keep talking to the A.D's and President's, we would be sweet travel partners!

Even ignoring the necessity of travel "partners", how are two universities that are located over 950 miles apart "travel partners"?