Perfect opportunity for Georgetown to upgrade their program ?

[Tim James]

The D.C. United soccer team is having a lot of trouble building a new stadium. Why doesnt Georgetown partner with them and build and share a new stadium similar to what the Houston Dynamo and Texas Southern U. are doing. The stadium would enable Georgetown to move up to FBS and join the Big East. MLS stadiums are usually 20-27,000 seaters and thats below the 30,000 seat minimum required for FBS but there are ways to get around that.

Yes I'm aware that Villanova could play in Philly's MLS stadium if they were to move up to FBS but that thing's in Chester and I wouldnt think Nova would be interested in playing there. At least the stadium in DC hasnt been built yet and with Georgetown's involvement they could get it built downtown maybe.

[Redwyn]

It seems quite an interesting proposition, but Georgetown is on the FCS level mostly due to a reluctance to put top level money into its program. Georgetown is a basketball school that has a much smaller student body than the public school Big East members, much like Villanova. While the stadium has some potential, it's unlikely that Georgetown would then choose to invest incredible amounts into the team to move to FBS, or draw the fan base necessary to allow a move to that level.

[Franks Tanks]

The D.C. United soccer team is having a lot of trouble building a new stadium. Why doesnt Georgetown partner with them and build and share a new stadium similar to what the Houston Dynamo and Texas Southern U. are doing. The stadium would enable Georgetown to move up to FBS and join the Big East. MLS stadiums are usually 20-27,000 seaters and thats below the 30,000 seat minimum required for FBS but there are ways to get around that.

Yes I'm aware that Villanova could play in Philly's MLS stadium if they were to move up to FBS but that thing's in Chester and I wouldnt think Nova would be interested in playing there. At least the stadium in DC hasnt been built yet and with Georgetown's involvement they could get it built downtown maybe.

The Big East would require more than minimum NCAA standards for inclusion-- they did kick Temple out as you may recall.

Georgetown simply does not have the desire or the funds to move to FBS. It would be a huge expense and the ROI wouldnt be guaranteed

[andy7171]

Besides there being no where downtown to build a stadium on that side of DC, and the hard enough time the school is having to get up to par academically, athletes to compete in FCS, there is the whole competing for fans of Maryland, Navy, Viginia, Va Tech and all the VA FCS schools. Oh and then there's the whole Redskins rule the citys attention thing.
They should have grandfathered the basketball team to stay D.I in basketball and everything else D.III, like they did with Hopkins in lacrosse.
Georgetown would drop football before moving to FBS.

[carney2]

All of this ignores the obvious question: Why would Georgetown want any part of FBS football?!

[slycat]

Still a good idea. Maybe just improve on a FCS stadium. DCs going to lose their soccer team if they don't watch out. MLS Commish expressed his concern over their stadium situation and hinted at a move to St. Louis. I can't believe they can't get a stadium in VA or MD close by. Georgetown and DCU could really help each other out.

[andy7171]

All of this ignores the obvious question: Why would Georgetown want any part of FBS football?!

I think somepeople think they should move up to FBS because they are in a BCS conference in basketball.

I think it would better serve their purpose if they were allowed to move down to D.III. They have more in common with the Catholic Us and Johns Hopkins than Lehigh and the other PL school. Not a slight on either GU or the PL, just my opinion on the focus of the schools.

[whitey]

DCs going to lose their soccer team if they don't watch out. MLS Commish expressed his concern over their stadium situation and hinted at a move to St. Louis. I can't believe they can't get a stadium in VA or MD close by. Georgetown and DCU could really help each other out.

Well they almost had a done deal with Prince George's county in Maryland but the PG county commissioners recently pulled out. DC had/is having enough problems with Nationals Park that they're afraid to publicly finance yet another stadium.

So that leaves Virginia. If you want to stay close in Virginia that means Arlington. Not in a million years will that happen, not in Arlington. Arlington fought tooth and nail to keep the baseball stadium out of their county. I can guarantee the same with a soccer stadium. Plus land is in very short supply and uber-expensive in Arlington.

Now you have to move farther out...to Fairfax. There is more land but once again the price of that land can be prohibitive. 1-bedroom condos in Fairfax, 20 miles from DC, can run anywhere from $190k-$250k...and that's after the real estate bubble burst. Plus once you get past Fairfax City/Vienna there is no public transportation sans buses.

The only other option would be somewhere in Loudon County (even farther from DC). Probably an hour drive on a good day (no traffic), which practically never happens around here. There is plenty of land out there and there is a new metro line starting to be built out in that direction towards Dulles airport and beyond. So maybe that's a possibility, but I haven't heard anything to indicate DCU is looking to move to Virginia at all.


Re: Georgetown. It's pretty obvious that Georgetown has little interest in upgrading their program.

[jmufan999]

whitey, well put! and i used to live in Loudoun Co., pretty right on with the time frame to DC. hm, i guess i really don't have anything to add to this discussion. i'll be excusing myself now.

[4th and What?]

Now you have to move farther out...to Fairfax. There is more land but once again the price of that land can be prohibitive. 1-bedroom condos in Fairfax, 20 miles from DC, can run anywhere from $190k-$250k...and that's after the real estate bubble burst. Plus once you get past Fairfax City/Vienna there is no public transportation sans buses.


Haven't been in VA for a bit, but there was always a lot of plans to extend the orcange line out to Dulles. Dunno if that has ever moved along though. A stadium there out near Dulles would be a great option. The Nationals looked at it as an option for a while, but delays in getting the metro out there nixed it.

[Big Dawg]

Howard University needs a stadium upgrade just as bad as Georgetown.

[whitey]

The Silver Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_(Washington_Metro)) has been approved and funded. Work has already started. It's going to branch off from the orange line at East Falls Church and go west from there, through Tysons, then Reston, Herndon, Dulles and into Loudon along the Greenway.

Connolly, former Fairfax County Commissioner and now Congressman, is now at the beginning stages of trying to get funding for studies and planning on extending the Orange lane past Vienna with future stops at 123, Rt. 50, Stringfellow Rd and Centerville at Rt. 28. That of course will be at least a decade and probably longer than that out (if it ever happens).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Interesting idea. But hard to picture Georgetown embracing FBS football when they won't publicly embrace FCS football with enough scholarships/equivalencies to even play them.

[89Hen]

Well they almost had a done deal with Prince George's county in Maryland but the PG county commissioners recently pulled out.

So that leaves Virginia.

The only other option would be somewhere in Loudon County (even farther from DC).
Not so fast my Virginia friend. Montgomery County is not out of the mix at all. I honestly think they will find a way to put it up 270. xnodx

[Husky Alum]

Northeastern and the New England Revolution are LONG rumored to have approached the City of Boston about a 20K soccer/football facility adjacent to NU's campus on and empty parcel of land across the street from Boston Police HQ.

For the longest time the neighbors who live in the area (which is principally lower income) have opposed the construction of such a facility - which allegedly would be jointly constructed, but owned by the Revs - claiming that the land would be better used for mixed retail.

In light of the current economy, who knows.

The facility would be the home of NU m/w soccer, NU football, and as legend had it, NU's new lax teams.

Alas, I drove by the parcel today, and it's still overgrown weeds - as it's been for 20 years.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Haven't been in VA for a bit, but there was always a lot of plans to extend the orcange line out to Dulles. Dunno if that has ever moved along though. A stadium there out near Dulles would be a great option. The Nationals looked at it as an option for a while, but delays in getting the metro out there nixed it.

You do realize that would be about a half hour (excusing traffic) from campus, right?

This is all silly anyway, as Georgetown barely is able to fund a bare bones, terrible FCS program, let alone an FBS program.

[Jackman]

MLS stadiums are usually 20-27,000 seaters and thats below the 30,000 seat minimum required for FBS but there are ways to get around that.
There is no longer a stadium capacity requirement for FBS, just the attendance requirement.

[whitey]

Not so fast my Virginia friend. Montgomery County is not out of the mix at all. I honestly think they will find a way to put it up 270. xnodx

Where up 270? Past Germantown? Is that even Montgomery County anymore?

(Also, I apologize in advance for the thread derail).

[4th and What?]

You do realize that would be about a half hour (excusing traffic) from campus, right?

This is all silly anyway, as Georgetown barely is able to fund a bare bones, terrible FCS program, let alone an FBS program.

I was babbling about DC United, and shortly realized this thread is not about DC United. Obviously Fairfax County is not a realistic option for Georgetown football.

[89Hen]

Where up 270? Past Germantown? Is that even Montgomery County anymore?

(Also, I apologize in advance for the thread derail).
Gaithersburg or G'town. xpeacex

[DFW HOYA]

This is all silly anyway, as Georgetown barely is able to fund a bare bones, terrible FCS program...

Since when is $1.5 million a bare-bones budget?

And did someone in this thread really ask about "the hard enough time [Georgetown] is having to get up to par academically" in the PL? Academically?

Or "I think it would better serve their purpose if they were allowed to move down to D-III. They have more in common with the Catholic U's and Johns Hopkins than Lehigh and the other PL schools?" Catholic U?

Or even the fair-minded LFN saying that Georgetown "won't publicly embrace FCS football."? When?

I would ask readers to back off a little and consider that nine straight years of losing has a way of kicking a program in the teeth, but that's not enough to cast it as unfit for duty. From 1889 to 2000, only one Georgetown senior class had ever gone through their football careers without at least one winning season (the class of 1933). Since then, six straight have. Lots of reasons why.

Yes, the budget isn't enough (28th of 40 Eastern programs), but it's still over $1.5million a year and that's more than any other sport on campus that doesn't involve basketball. Yes, the "temporary" field doesn't help and basketball doesn't make enough money to fund expansion. Yes, the recruiting hasn't helped, which is hamstrung in a number of criteria including, for now, the AI. Yes, the style of play doesn't help. But the Georgetown kids haven't quit on this league and neither has the school.

And how is Georgetown not "publicly embracing" I-AA football? Is it playing sub-Division I teams for wins as some schools do? There's no West Chester or Millersville on the Hoyas schedule--its 2009 non-conference lineup includes three full (or nearly) full scholarship teams, even as Georgetown and Fordham are not partners in the Ivy-PL scheduling alliance and probably never will. And it's probably the only school in America that would actually schedule the defending national playoff champion as its Homecoming opponent.

But how is it not "publicly embracing" I-AA football when its athletic director tells the New York Times that "We don’t have all the football pieces in place yet, but in time we will, and it will be a good experience for Georgetown"?

(All that having been said, I'd be in favor of a stadium arrangement with DC United, except they have less than zero interest in sharing a natural grass facility with a NCAA football team of any kind, and the current chatter is that they may move the franchise out of town anyway.)

[Franks Tanks]

Since when is $1.5 million a bare-bones budget?

And did someone in this thread really ask about "the hard enough time [Georgetown] is having to get up to par academically" in the PL? Academically?

Or "I think it would better serve their purpose if they were allowed to move down to D-III. They have more in common with the Catholic U's and Johns Hopkins than Lehigh and the other PL schools?" Catholic U?

Or even the fair-minded LFN saying that Georgetown "won't publicly embrace FCS football."? When?

I would ask readers to back off a little and consider that nine straight years of losing has a way of kicking a program in the teeth, but that's not enough to cast it as unfit for duty. From 1889 to 2000, only one Georgetown senior class had ever gone through their football careers without at least one winning season (the class of 1933). Since then, six straight have. Lots of reasons why.

Yes, the budget isn't enough (28th of 40 Eastern programs), but it's still over $1.5million a year and that's more than any other sport on campus that doesn't involve basketball. Yes, the "temporary" field doesn't help and basketball doesn't make enough money to fund expansion. Yes, the recruiting hasn't helped, which is hamstrung in a number of criteria including, for now, the AI. Yes, the style of play doesn't help. But the Georgetown kids haven't quit on this league and neither has the school.

And how is Georgetown not "publicly embracing" I-AA football? Is it playing sub-Division I teams for wins as some schools do? There's no West Chester or Millersville on the Hoyas schedule--its 2009 non-conference lineup includes three full (or nearly) full scholarship teams, even as Georgetown and Fordham are not partners in the Ivy-PL scheduling alliance and probably never will. And it's probably the only school in America that would actually schedule the defending national playoff champion as its Homecoming opponent.

But how is it not "publicly embracing" I-AA football when its athletic director tells the New York Times that "We don’t have all the football pieces in place yet, but in time we will, and it will be a good experience for Georgetown"?

(All that having been said, I'd be in favor of a stadium arrangement with DC United, except they have less than zero interest in sharing a natural grass facility with a NCAA football team of any kind, and the current chatter is that they may move the franchise out of town anyway.)

Where did anyone say anything about Georgetown's academics? Every post you remind us that Georgetown is the finest school in the history of the universe. Enough already, and you should then be able to attract enough decent FB players to be marginally competitive once a decade.

I love your 1889-2000 stat, yet you neglect to mention that Georgetown didnt have a FB team for a few decades in there.

[DFW HOYA]

I love your 1889-2000 stat, yet you neglect to mention that Georgetown didnt have a FB team for a few decades in there.

The "academically" quote didn't come from me, but andy7171's post. Check it out before you assume further.

Decades? Georgetown has had a varsity team from 1887 through 1951 and since 1964. Excepting WWII and three seasons lost in the 1890's after the death of a player, that's all of 14 seasons in the modern era without an intercollegiate team.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/georgetown/yearly_totals.php

[Scumdog0331]

They should have grandfathered the basketball team to stay D.I in basketball and everything else D.III, like they did with Hopkins in lacrosse.
Georgetown would drop football before moving to FBS.

Dayton Rule...

[Franks Tanks]

The "academically" quote didn't come from me, but andy7171's post. Check it out before you assume further.

Decades? Georgetown has had a varsity team from 1887 through 1951 and since 1964. Excepting WWII and three seasons lost in the 1890's after the death of a player, that's all of 14 seasons in the modern era without an intercollegiate team.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/patriot/georgetown/yearly_totals.php


But you had a club team in the late 60's to early 70's. Club football is not the same as varsity FB.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Since when is $1.5 million a bare-bones budget?

Bare bones infrastructure wise. Playing, practice and training facilities are all atrocious.

The only even mediocre part of the MSF is the playing surface itself.

Have you ever been through McDonough to see the football locker room? It's worse than 90% of the high schools in the area. Even worse is the fact that the team has to use an even worse locker room for spring practice because the lacrosse team needs the Jr. high quality locker room for their players.

And let's not get started on Yates. They've done what they can with the varsity weight room (maybe "section" is more appropriate), but that is nothing more than the curtained off section of an awful student athletic facility.

[Redwyn]

I'm not really impressed by so many insistence that Georgetown drop down to DIII, as it's a shot at its entire athletic program, not just football.

If you check the status of their other sports Georgetown is quite proficient at Men's/Women's Lacrosse, Women's Rowing, Men's Basketball, and Track and Field, and overall is a member in very good standing of the Big East. While yes, the football team might be underfunded compared to an App State, it is much stronger overall than entire I-AA conferences at the moment. Off hand there are over a dozen teams that would have to go down with Georgetown if you were to set the bar that high.

Look past the record. As many have posted Georgetown has not shirked away from scheduling very competitive schools, unlike the DII/DIII insta-wins that others have marked on their schedules year in and year out. It may not be hung on its football tradition, because honestly it has nearly every other sport to be proud of. It's like squeezing an elephant into a crowded elevator. It won't work, and it'll probably make the cable snap. Give GT time. If it wasn't planning, the sport wouldn't exist. They're smart there, and quite experienced at athletics, far more than 90% of I-AA.

[Husky Alum]

Bare bones infrastructure wise. Playing, practice and training facilities are all atrocious.

The only even mediocre part of the MSF is the playing surface itself.

Have you ever been through McDonough to see the football locker room? It's worse than 90% of the high schools in the area. Even worse is the fact that the team has to use an even worse locker room for spring practice because the lacrosse team needs the Jr. high quality locker room for their players.

And let's not get started on Yates. They've done what they can with the varsity weight room (maybe "section" is more appropriate), but that is nothing more than the curtained off section of an awful student athletic facility.

Georgetown should play NU in football in a home/home. Call it the "Misery Loves Company" Bowl. Both schools have crappy facilities and play in good leagues.

NU's facilities are a joke, and that's being polite. And that's not a secret.

Our football locker room is worse than 90% of the junior high schools in the area. Brookline High uses our field and their players consistently say that their home locker room is much nicer than ours.

[Bison101]

[QUOTE=Redwyn;1329520]I'm not really impressed by so many insistence that Georgetown drop down to DIII, as it's a shot at its entire athletic program, not just football.

If you check the status of their other sports Georgetown is quite proficient at Men's/Women's Lacrosse, Women's Rowing, Men's Basketball, and Track and Field, and overall is a member in very good standing of the Big East. QUOTE]

Hmmmm.......

I'll have to look those scores up tomorrow. xcoffeex

[Redwyn]

[QUOTE=Redwyn;1329520]I'm not really impressed by so many insistence that Georgetown drop down to DIII, as it's a shot at its entire athletic program, not just football.

If you check the status of their other sports Georgetown is quite proficient at Men's/Women's Lacrosse, Women's Rowing, Men's Basketball, and Track and Field, and overall is a member in very good standing of the Big East. QUOTE]

Hmmmm.......

I'll have to look those scores up tomorrow. xcoffeex

Hahaha, rowing scores.....Yes, I also find that watching the stuff is quite boring, but the reason I bring it up is that top academic schools drink the stuff (no pun intended), and rowing is GT's way of not just matching itself with the Ivy League, but also competing with notable Big East power Syracuse, one of the original founding members of the IRA national championship. The main reason why GT won't go to DIII is that it would lose standing in this sport and no longer be eligible for many of the championships that go with it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Or even the fair-minded LFN saying that Georgetown "won't publicly embrace FCS football."? When?


Yes, the budget isn't enough (28th of 40 Eastern programs), but it's still over $1.5million a year and that's more than any other sport on campus that doesn't involve basketball. Yes, the "temporary" field doesn't help and basketball doesn't make enough money to fund expansion. Yes, the recruiting hasn't helped, which is hamstrung in a number of criteria including, for now, the AI. Yes, the style of play doesn't help. But the Georgetown kids haven't quit on this league and neither has the school.

And how is Georgetown not "publicly embracing" I-AA football? Is it playing sub-Division I teams for wins as some schools do? There's no West Chester or Millersville on the Hoyas schedule--its 2009 non-conference lineup includes three full (or nearly) full scholarship teams, even as Georgetown and Fordham are not partners in the Ivy-PL scheduling alliance and probably never will. And it's probably the only school in America that would actually schedule the defending national playoff champion as its Homecoming opponent.

You take exception to the fact that I said Georgetown hasn't "publicly embraced" the football team. Yet you then turn around and say 1) the budget isn't enough, 2) they have a temporary field (and has been for years now), 3) recruiting is hamstrung by the OLD AI that was changed starting with the incoming recruiting class, and for good measure you also mention 4) the style of play doesn't help. So what are good people to conclude? That Georgetown is giving the football program the support and resources it needs to be competitive for PL championships? Neither the record - or, crucially, your own criticisms - bear that out.

My intent here isn't to downplay the effort of the kids or the coaching staff here. It is absolutely true the kids playing in the program have worked very hard to build the program, frequently not seeing much in terms of immediate benefits. They deserve to have their commitments recognized.

And there's no doubt that they've "scheduled up" in an effort to get better - all good stuff. Fans have been showing up to games despite the obstacles. The series with Howard for the D.C. Cup I think is a great idea. I think the "folks with the money" are the issue here, not the players and fans who have been resilient and extremely supportive in challenging circumstances.

The "money people" seem quite willing to allow Georgetown to have about half the funding for their football program that the "big dogs" have, and they probably think a team in a small, temporary, on-field stadium called "Multi-Sport Field" is just fine. These are the people who have not "fully embraced" FCS football, and that IMO is what needs to change.

For a case study, all you need to do is look at Lafayette. For years their president didn't "embrace" FCS football, and Fisher Field fell into disrepair and the football program nearly was demoted to D-III. But a change in adminstration that did "embrace football" made a sea change - refurbishing Fisher Field to become a true start-of-the-art place.