Charlie Manuel Watch - 2009 Addition

[89Hen]

The big question for the Phils is how much you give up for Halladay???

I choose to sit this one out. I have heard all of the arguments and I am just too tired to join in the fight.

I'm of the mindset that you win - NOW!

I'd give up a combination of 4 for Halladay..
I'm not sure I part with too much to get him. I think I like the Washburn or Bedard possiblitilies from Seattle if the Phils can keep more. xpeacex

[GannonFan]

I'm not sure I part with too much to get him. I think I like the Washburn or Bedard possiblitilies from Seattle if the Phils can keep more. xpeacex

Problem is, Seattle's 6 games over .500 and still have a good shot at either their own division title or even the wild card - I don't see Seattle moving guys at this time for prospects.

[Touchdown Yosef]

IMO, the only 'no trade' would be Happ. He's 7 and 0 which translates to 7 over .500, which translates to 35 over .500 if all starters were as effective. Why get rid of an effective starter for another, albeit a better one in the long run? I think Drabek will one day be a winner in the 'bigs', but I emphasize, think. We know Happ is a winner this year; keep him! Taylor, Brown, seem to have all the tools, but they aren't necessary for the immediate future. Don't need Donald with Rollins here for another 6 years.
So, I'd give up a combination of 4 for Halladay: Drabek, Carrasco, Donald, Brown, Marson, Taylor. I'd try to keep Taylor, but if necessary, he goes. IMO, Halladay assures the Phillies of, at least, playoffs for the next three years. xnodx

That is assuming he aggrees to an extension and doesn't opt out at the end of this year. I love the idea of bringing Haladay to Philly and having a playoff rotation of Halladay, Hammels, and maybe Happ paired with that unbelievable lineup, but if he opts out after this season its not really worth it imo.

[GannonFan]

That is assuming he aggrees to an extension and doesn't opt out at the end of this year. I love the idea of bringing Haladay to Philly and having a playoff rotation of Halladay, Hammels, and maybe Happ paired with that unbelievable lineup, but if he opts out after this season its not really worth it imo.

Halladay is signed through next season - he doesn't have an option for next year, he's already committed. If the Phils get him, they have him for the rest of this year and all of next year. He's a free agent at the end of 2010.

[ngineer]

I also heard that there is interest in Marsen the catcher here in Lehigh Valley. I'd hate to see him go. I like Ruiz, but Bako isn't a long term backup and Ruiz with Marsen as a backup would be a very good catching combo for the next 10 years.

[GannonFan]

I also heard that there is interest in Marsen the catcher here in Lehigh Valley. I'd hate to see him go. I like Ruiz, but Bako isn't a long term backup and Ruiz with Marsen as a backup would be a very good catching combo for the next 10 years.

I like Ruiz and Marson as well, but neither has really shown themselves to be such incredible catchers that you couldn't part with either of them. Projecting those guys as mainstays for 10 years is a bit of a stretch - nice players, but not absolutely-have-to-keep-them types either.

[bluehenbillk]

Well only 11 more days of Halladay talk, then it all shifts to "how do we match up against the Dodgers??".xwhistlex

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I'm not sure I part with too much to get him. I think I like the Washburn or Bedard possiblitilies from Seattle if the Phils can keep more. xpeacex

I like Bedard better than Washburn (he's five years younger), but I'm starting to think, assuming the price is much less, that this makes more sense as well.

I have the feeling that the Jays will ask for Happ and a few blue chip minor leaguers in any deal with the Phillies for Halladay. That is not enough of a net upgrade to the rotation to make it worth giving up the prospects, IMHO.

Happ has proven himself worthy of an "untouchable" label and I will be disappointed in any deal that has him moving.

[93henfan]

Halladay is signed through next season - he doesn't have an option for next year, he's already committed. If the Phils get him, they have him for the rest of this year and all of next year. He's a free agent at the end of 2010.


http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/another_thing_to_consider_abou.html (posted by Travis in another thread)


Players who signed multiyear contracts before Oct. 2006 can demand a trade, if they are traded in the middle of their deals. Halladay signed a three-year, $40 million contract extension with the Blue Jays in March 2006, which means if Toronto trades him, he can demand a trade in the off-season.

In other words, there is some risk the Phillies could lose Halladay after just a few months of baseball (and after sending several top prospects to the Blue Jays to get him). Because if Halladay demands a trade and the Phillies don't trade him, Halladay would become an unrestricted free agent March 15.

Halladay also would get to choose six teams in which he would not accept a trade, which would make things even more difficult for the Phillies.

[GannonFan]

http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/another_thing_to_consider_abou.html (posted by Travis in another thread)

Yup - just saw that. Is Landry still Halladay's agent?

[93henfan]

RAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

3-run dinger.

3-0, bottom first, ESPN.

[93henfan]

The Phils own Ted Lilly. 5-0 and the pitcher hasn't batted yet.

xspankx

[GannonFan]

Phils win it 10-1. Braves are up big so the lead will stay at 6.5 but still, impressive nonetheless. I'm actually at Citizens Bank tomorrow night so hopefully the slugfest continues.

At this point, I'd be happy trading Drabek and a handful of other guys and keeping a Hamels/Halladay/Blanton/Happ playoff rotation.

[93henfan]

At this point, I'd be happy trading Drabek and a handful of other guys and keeping a Hamels/Halladay/Blanton/Happ playoff rotation.

That would be a dream. Hamels would be your #3 man at this point with that rotation, unless he can pull it together before the end of the year and beat out Happ for the #2 slot.

[ngineer]

I like Ruiz and Marson as well, but neither has really shown themselves to be such incredible catchers that you couldn't part with either of them. Projecting those guys as mainstays for 10 years is a bit of a stretch - nice players, but not absolutely-have-to-keep-them types either.

Ruiz is an excellent defensive catcher. He has shown some 'pop' at times, but if he could become a consistent .260 hitter, in this league, that is top line. Marson has shown to be a nice future. Having solid catching that is not only good defensively, but also handles the pitching staff well is paramount. With the lineup the Phils have, they don't need 'monster' producers offensively at catcher. Just no dark holes in the line up. I'm not saying they are 'untouchables', but give a solid, adequate position for the foreseeable future.

I always remember one of the best no-hit defensive catchers in modern times--Clay Dalrymple. Barely hit his weight, with a couple HRs a year, but excellent behind the plate handling Bunning, Short, Culp and Mahaffey....xnodx

[93henfan]

Phils back to .500 at home. Finally.

[GannonFan]

That would be a dream. Hamels would be your #3 man at this point with that rotation, unless he can pull it together before the end of the year and beat out Happ for the #2 slot.

There's no way, barring Hamels literally turning to jelly on the mound between now and then, that Hamels wouldn't be at least the #2 starter in the playoffs. Happ, while I love the guy, is still basically a rookie and could have a Kendrick-like post season. Hamels, for all his lack of numbers this year, was still lights out in the playoffs last year and no reason why you don't try to jump right back on that horse. Seeing how Hamels can't pitch more than 2 games in a 7 game series, and Halladay probably could, I see no problem with Hamels getting the #2 billing, but you'd be almost insane to put Happ ahead of him considering the playoff performance of last year.

[93henfan]

Only problem is, Hamels was better the whole year last year than he's been this year. He's giving up almost two more runs per game this year and hasn't really improved much as the year has gone on. What makes you think he all of a sudden gets a live arm again in the playoffs?

[GannonFan]

Only problem is, Hamels was better the whole year last year than he's been this year. He's giving up almost two more runs per game this year and hasn't really improved much as the year has gone on. What makes you think he all of a sudden gets a live arm again in the playoffs?

Well, he has brought the ERA down from 17.00 in April to mid 4's now, so that's some improvement. And the other factor is, you can't discount the big game mentality that he brings. He goes out in a big game at LA and throws a 5 hit, complete game shutout. Curt Schilling all those years didn't always have great regular season numbers, but when he was put into a pressure cooker situation of a playoof game, he was one of the game's all time best. Hamels, based on what he showed last year, has all the makings of a big game pitcher. To reduce his availability to pitch in a 7 game series to just one game based on a regular season's body of work that includes games in April and May would be absurd. Unless he shows a real physical ailment, the worst Hamels will be will be the #2 starter, and that's only because Halladay could have the stamina to pitch 3 times in a seven game series. I'll even go out on a limb and say that if Halladay says he can only go twice (can't pitch on short rest), you will still see Hamels be the #1 guy. Manuel's the kind of baseball guy who is going to stick with his horse regardless of what the cumulative regular season numbers say.

[89Hen]

Phillies must make trade for Halladay (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4341612&name=gammons_peter)


One could argue that the Phillies have a chance to win three straight World Series (if the Phils acquire Halladay, they would have him under contract for the rest of this season along with the entire 2010 campaign) -- and make Cole Hamels even better. But whether they'll do it is up in the air.

[89Hen]

BTW, you all do realize Rodrigo Lopez is 2-0 in three starts with a 2.60 ERA and 13 K's with 2 walks... xwhistlex

[93henfan]

Jayson Werth with a 3-run walk-off in the bottom of the 13th! xbowx xbowx xbowx

Joe Blanton with 7 innings, 1 ER. Madson and Lidge go perfect in 8th and 9th. Park goes three long and scoreless with 5 Ks and Condrey gets them through the 13th. Great effort by the hurlers.

Here's to hoping the Fightin's can keep on riding this wave. :D

[blukeys]

10 wins for the Fightin's

Mets are 11 back in the loss column.

[93henfan]

Mets are 11 back in the loss column.

Shut out by the Nats tonight. xlolx

[tribe_pride]

Seriously? You guys are looking at the Mets? I am a fan but they are out of it. No need to pay attention to them. Too many injuries this year for them to be able to compete.

[93henfan]

Oh man. My wife was just watching TV news in the other room and they were doing a sports teaser and the only two words my ears picked up were "signed" and "Halladay".

Turns out they were talking about the 76ers signing their first round pick Jrue Holiday. xoopsx

[ngineer]

ON FIRE!

Can't last forever but love ridin' this wave as long as we can!!!xthumbsupx

Way to go Watzi!!!!!!!!xbowx

[bluehenbillk]

Werth with his 1st walk-off & the beat goes on. How bout Myers expected to be back to join the bullpen next month??!!

[ngineer]

Phils going to be faced with a host of 'pleasant problems'...who do you keep/move? Everyone is going pretty good right now. Having Myers back will give more insurance if Moyer breaks down, down the stretch. Myers won't be 'stretched out' enough right away go more than a couple innings, but by late September and playoffs should be in 'starting shape' if needed.

[93henfan]

Phils going to be faced with a host of 'pleasant problems'...who do you keep/move? Everyone is going pretty good right now. Having Myers back will give more insurance if Moyer breaks down, down the stretch. Myers won't be 'stretched out' enough right away go more than a couple innings, but by late September and playoffs should be in 'starting shape' if needed.

This run is also helping the Phils prove to the Jays that there is no need to sell the farm to get Halladay. This might save either Happ or Drabek should the trigger ultimately be pulled.

[whitey]

Buffalo Bisons are 11 back in the loss column.

Fixed Your Post.

Barring a miracle (i.e. Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, Maine, Putz all magically coming off the DL today) the Mets are out of the division race and pretty much have been for weeks. The Mets need to start looking towards 2010. Enjoy the playoffs. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

I'm actually at Citizens Bank tomorrow night so hopefully the slugfest continues.
Did you end up going GF? 89Jr and I watched 7th inning on last night. He was totally into it. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

Did you end up going GF? 89Jr and I watched 7th inning on last night. He was totally into it. xthumbsupx


I did, whole family in tow. Actually hung out until the end of the 12th, and then started walking out. Heard the top of the 13th from outside the store on Ashburn Alley (kids were buying new hats) and then we were pulling out of the parking lot when Werth hit his HR. Considering we have a 10 month old to go along with the 3 and 5 year old, I think getting them to hang for 12 full innings was pretty good. It was about 11PM when we left.

Good news is, I'm going back with the wife only in August and we have seats behind the 3rd base dugout - no need to leave early with the kids at their grandparents that night!

[93henfan]

Damn, GF, you almost made it until the end!

Hey, while we're talking about going to games, have any of you attended one in Reading?

I think I'd like to go watch Drabek pitch one.

Any pointers on Reading?

[89Hen]

Any pointers on Reading?
Don't get stuck behind a buggy. xpeacex

[93henfan]

Don't get stuck behind a buggy. xpeacex

We have plenty of those right here in Dover. They built my out-building and dining room set in fact. xthumbsupx

Next time I'm at Wal-Mart, I'll snap a pic of the buggies tied up in the parking lot. It's comical.

Delaware put these up at all the Kent County border crossings with Maryland a few years ago in an attempt to have less Amish flattened:

http://ohs.delaware.gov/photo_links/amish_buggy.jpg

[89Hen]

We have plenty of those right here in Dover. They built my out-building and dining room set in fact. xthumbsupx

Next time I'm at Wal-Mart, I'll snap a pic of the buggies tied up in the parking lot. It's comical.

Delaware put these up at all the Kent County border crossings with Maryland a few years ago in an attempt to have less Amish flattened:
You know me and Kent County. I'm either going from Caroline Co into Sussex or Cecil County into NCC. Come to think of it, I didn't even realize DE had a third county. xsmiley_wix

[93henfan]

You know me and Kent County. I'm either going from Caroline Co into Sussex or Cecil County into NCC. Come to think of it, I didn't even realize DE had a third county. xsmiley_wix

That's the way we like it. Less tourists.

[GannonFan]

Damn, GF, you almost made it until the end!

Hey, while we're talking about going to games, have any of you attended one in Reading?

I think I'd like to go watch Drabek pitch one.

Any pointers on Reading?


Reading's fine, it's an older stadium, but it's still good. On a hot day there are only some seats under shade, but if you can take the heat (assuming it ever gets hot this summer) it's not bad. Easy stadium to get in and out of, just a very typical minor league experience. Almost like watching the Mets play.

[bluehenbillk]

Easy stadium to get in and out of, just a very typical minor league experience. Almost like watching the Mets play.

Dude, that's a low blow. Reading's 2B has never dropped a game-ending infield pop to lose a game have they???

[GannonFan]

Dude, that's a low blow. Reading's 2B has never dropped a game-ending infield pop to lose a game have they???

That's true, with the talent Reading has now I probably would favor them in a 7 game series with the Mets. xlolx

[93henfan]

Wow, forgot the Phils played a BPS this afternoon. It's still in the top of the 9th, but it looks like it won't be a sweep. Lidge is having a brutal ninth and it looks like Moyer had yet another bad outing.

[GannonFan]

Wow, forgot the Phils played a BPS this afternoon. It's still in the top of the 9th, but it looks like it won't be a sweep. Lidge is having a brutal ninth and it looks like Moyer had yet another bad outing.

It was really Durbin that had a terrible outing. Moyer went 5 and gave up 4 earned, which wasn't much worse than Zambrano who went another 1 2/3 and gave up the same. Durbin has the pitching line of 0.0 innings, 2 hits, 3 walks, 3 runs, all earned. That took a 5-3 game in the 7th and put it out of reach.

All in all, can't be upset about winning 2 of 3 against the Cubs when Hamels nor Happ even pitched, and the Cubs sent their best 3 to the hill over the series. Still got 4 nice home games in front of them against the weak-hitting Padres and then a Cardinals team that isn't terribly scary at all.

[ngineer]

I'll be down there Saturday afternoon to see the Cards game with my daughter. Our annual "Father-Daughter" outing to Philly. Take in a museum or two and then the Phils.xnodx

[blukeys]

We have plenty of those right here in Dover. They built my out-building and dining room set in fact. xthumbsupx

Next time I'm at Wal-Mart, I'll snap a pic of the buggies tied up in the parking lot. It's comical.

Delaware put these up at all the Kent County border crossings with Maryland a few years ago in an attempt to have less Amish flattened:

http://ohs.delaware.gov/photo_links/amish_buggy.jpg

Go by Friday at the 1st National Bank of Wyoming and snap away. It is one of the few banks with a hitching post. While you're at it check out the buggies at Spence's Bazaar in Dover.

[93henfan]

While you're at it check out the buggies at Spence's Bazaar in Dover.

I'm pretty much a regular on Fridays at Spence's. I'm doing my part to keep the Amish economy afloat with my purchase of ribs, rotisserie chickens, soft pretzels, etc. This may be why I haven't posted recently on WKU's weight watchers thread. :o

[ngineer]

Back to the subject at hand....Phils back on the beam tonight with some great timely hitting, slick defense, and a solid outing by Hamels.

Durbin and Romero back on the DL. Carpenter and Walker have been called up from the Iron Pigs.

[bluehenbillk]

I won't miss Durbin, he's struggled all year. Hamels looked good last night, that's 2 in a row for him so hopefully he's righting his ship. The World Champs should just whack the Padres, they're not very good. It'd be nice to play well this weekend before hitting the road.

[Ivytalk]

Happ goes for his 8th win tonight!xthumbsupxxnodx

[GannonFan]

Yeah, losing Durbin isn't the end of the world, he's been struggling all year. But even though Foggy doesn't like Romero, he's an arm the Phils need to have ready by the postseason.

Nice to see the Phils spank the Padres - the Padres are just an awful team. Hopefully we'll do well against the Cardinals - outside of Pujols there isn't a lot there to scare you. Happ going tonight (perhaps his last start as a Phillie?) and Blanton gets the last game of the series, so winning at least 2 out of 3 should be more than doable against that lineup.

Carrasco pitches for the Iron Pigs tonight, with Blue Jay scouts in attendance. Let's hope he looks good enough to make the package for Halladay only have to include Happ or Drabek and not both of them.

[foghorn]

C'mon, GF, I have no qualms pitching Romero as long as it's in the middle innings with the Phils or opponents up by more than 6 runs. No way do I put him in a pressure situation. BALL FOUR, TAKE YOUR BASE!xeekx
Durbin pitched well last year; this year he stinks. Putting these two on the DL can only help the Phils.
Man, am I glad that Jimmy's back to normal. He and Victorino are definitely the catalysts you gotta have. Now let's get Pujols and the Cards. xthumbsupx

[93henfan]

Every time we play Poo Holes, I like to recall his quote about Ryan Howard's 2006 NL MVP award for motivation:


I see it this way: Someone who doesn’t take his team to the playoffs doesn’t deserve to win the MVP.

I'm still waiting for Poo Holes to return his 2008 NL MVP award, since he failed to meet his own criteria.

[bluehenbillk]

Could be Happ's last start as a World Champ tonight.

[foghorn]

Could be Happ's last start as a World Champ tonight.
Don't you think Halladay's demand that he becomes a free agent after 2010 changes the Phils' thinking somewhat?
That would give the Phils 11/2 seasons with him before he becomes a Yankee. With that in mind, no way do the Jays get Happ. Hell, I might not give them Drabek or Taylor either. As a matter of fact, I might scrap the whole deal. Bedard, anyone?xcoffeex

[bluehenbillk]

As a matter of fact, I might scrap the whole deal. Bedard, anyone?xcoffeex

Bedard? You can't be serious with Bedard. Most 5th grade girls have stronger backbones than him.

Matters really if you want to give away future prospects who may turn out to be studs or on the other hand may turns out to be just overhyped, for a legitimate shot to three-peat.

Before you wanna stay staus quo look at the pitching lineup for the World Champs likely 1st NLDS opponent, the SF Giants. Without Roy, the starting pitching edge is with SF. Granted, their lineup isn't as good as ours, but.....

[LacesOut]

Anyone else dislike the announcing duo of Dick Stockton and Tim McCarver??? Ugghhhhh.......very painful to listen to.

3-3 game. Pool Hose flied out to left and Holliday flied out to right with the go ahead run on 2nd.

[93henfan]

Anyone else dislike the announcing duo of Dick Stockton and Tim McCarver??? Ugghhhhh.......very painful to listen to.


xnodx Just dreadful.

[93henfan]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090725_Source__Phils_counter_with_Carrasco__Dona ld.html

The Jays' first offer for Halladay was Happ, Drabek, and Dominic Brown. The Phils will need to substitute Carrasco and Donald for either Happ or Drabek and I don't think anyone else will be able to match.

Get 'er done Ruben! xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090725_Source__Phils_counter_with_Carrasco__Dona ld.html

The Jays' first offer for Halladay was Happ, Drabek, and Dominic Brown. The Phils will need to substitute Carrasco and Donald for either Happ or Drabek and I don't think anyone else will be able to match.

Get 'er done Ruben! xthumbsupx

I wouldn't do the first trade either - basically a major league pitcher and the top two prospects in the organization. With the risk that Halladay leaves after this year, that's too much. Now, Happ and Carrasco with Donald and one or two other guys (Marson, Taylor, Brown, etc) and I'd do it. If that offer from Toronto is real, there's no reason why the Phils couldn't come up with something else that doesn't involved Happ and Drabek together - I'm more optimistic than ever that they'll get this done now - again assuming Toronto's offer was real.

[blukeys]

I don't like the idea of getting rid of Taylor. Drabek and Taylor should be off the table. I like Happ but I am willing to let him go for Halladay.

[ngineer]

I don't like the idea of getting rid of Taylor. Drabek and Taylor should be off the table. I like Happ but I am willing to let him go for Halladay.

I agree. Can't let both Happ and Drabek go, and I think Drabek has a longer upside down the road. I'd also throw in another top AAA pitcher and and two position players, though I'd like to see them keep Taylor, as well.

[ngineer]

Was down at CBP today/tonight...What an explosion in the 6th and 7th innings!xthumbsupx

[foghorn]

Was down at CBP today/tonight...What an explosion in the 6th and 7th innings!xthumbsupx
Don't know if you saw the replay, but FWIW, Ryan was safe on that close play at first. Both announcers concurred. xnodx

[93henfan]

Was down at CBP today/tonight...What an explosion in the 6th and 7th innings!xthumbsupx

I'm going to have to ask you not to shine your laser pointer in opposing players' faces anymore. xnonox

[ngineer]

Don't know if you saw the replay, but FWIW, Ryan was safe on that close play at first. Both announcers concurred. xnodx

No replay shown on the scoreboard, but I agree he appeared to beat the throw. And he was really busting down the line. Ryan plays hard and he was definitely pissed at the call.

[ngineer]

I'm going to have to ask you not to shine your laser pointer in opposing players' faces anymore. xnonox

That was not a laser in my pocket....;):D

[93henfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4356851

The Jays have rejected the Phils' counter-offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald.

You have to wonder when the Jays will come to their senses. I don't think any other team out there has the ability to offer a package as strong as the Phils, and Halladay's trade value plummets as soon as the deadline passes.

[93henfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4356851

The Jays have rejected the Phils' counter-offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald.

You have to wonder when the Jays will come to their senses. I don't think any other team out there has the ability to offer a package as strong as the Phils, and Halladay's trade value plummets as soon as the deadline passes.

[93henfan]

Phils keep on rolling today, taking five games on this seven game homestand.

Phils score 24 runs in 3 games against the NL Central-leading Cards.

Blanton goes 8 strong innings. Home runs today by Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Ibanez. Howard's shot hit 2/3 up the ivy on the batters eye. xeekx

If this team can manage a trade for Halladay, they will be sick in the postseason.

[blukeys]

Phils keep on rolling today, taking five games on this seven game homestand.

Phils score 24 runs in 3 games against the NL Central-leading Cards.

Blanton goes 8 strong innings. Home runs today by Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Ibanez. Howard's shot hit 2/3 up the ivy on the batters eye. xeekx

If this team can manage a trade for Halladay, they will be sick in the postseason.

I see the potential for 6 players having 20+ homer seasons. I see the potential for at least 5, 90 + RBI guys.

This is the best lineup I have ever seen the Phils have. And I go back to Pancho Herera!!!!!;)

[ngineer]

I see the potential for 6 players having 20+ homer seasons. I see the potential for at least 5, 90 + RBI guys.

This is the best lineup I have ever seen the Phils have. And I go back to Pancho Herera!!!!!;)

Yes, so do I. Offensively, I have to agree. From to bottom there is no hole. Even Ruiz, who is currently erratic, has sufficient pop to be dangerous. The 1980 team was also a very strong lineup top to bottom, but with not as much power, but maybe a slight edge on the defensive side of the equation (minus Luzinski ;)).

[ngineer]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4356851

The Jays have rejected the Phils' counter-offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald.

You have to wonder when the Jays will come to their senses. I don't think any other team out there has the ability to offer a package as strong as the Phils, and Halladay's trade value plummets as soon as the deadline passes.

What is the effect of the deadline? I thought people could still make trades up until the end of August and still be kept on the roster for the playoffs?

Happ, Taylor, Carrasco and Donald is a heck of an offer. Maybe substitute another arm for Carrasco, and or another position player for Donald (was not impressed with him this spring), but not Drabek and Happ. With Pedro coming soon, and Meyers joining the club in three weeks or so, they'll have enough to get them to October with the bats they have.

[93henfan]

What is the effect of the deadline?

Any player to be traded after July 31 (ie. in August) must first clear the waiver list.

[blukeys]

[/U][/I][/B]

Yes, so do I. Offensively, I have to agree. From to bottom there is no hole. Even Ruiz, who is currently erratic, has sufficient pop to be dangerous. The 1980 team was also a very strong lineup top to bottom, but with not as much power, but maybe a slight edge on the defensive side of the equation (minus Luzinski ;)).

With this current bunch I can't find a defensive clunker along the lines of Luzinski.

I would give the 80 team a slight advantage at third with Schmidt. But. after that I like Rollins over Bowa, Utley over Trillo,

I might take Maddox over Victorino but not by much.
Both play Centerfield in pretty much the same way. Ibanez over Luzinslki defensively, No brainer. Right field, Werth is twice the defensive player of Johnstone or Brown.

[ngineer]

With this current bunch I can't find a defensive clunker along the lines of Luzinski.

I would give the 80 team a slight advantage at third with Schmidt. But. after that I like Rollins over Bowa, Utley over Trillo,

I might take Maddox over Victorino but not by much.
Both play Centerfield in pretty much the same way. Ibanez over Luzinslki defensively, No brainer. Right field, Werth is twice the defensive player of Johnstone or Brown.

I thought "Shake 'n Bake" McBride was the rightfielder in '80? Defensively at 1st base, Rose edges Howard, but Ryan, from a production and 'impact' standpoint edges Pete. At catcher, Boone edges Ruiz, but not by much. I think Boone was more consistent with the bat, though Ruiz shows more power. I agree the current 'Keystone Combo' is better than Bowa and Trillo. Victorino is still learning in center. Maddox made everything look effortless. Shane, at times, looks a little frantic out there, though he usually gets the job done. I think Maddox got a better 'jump' or knew the batters better that he was almost always in position to get to the ball. Overall, though, I think this is a better 'team'...Seems to have more energy and camraderie which is intangible.

[blukeys]

I thought "Shake 'n Bake" McBride was the rightfielder in '80? Defensively at 1st base, Rose edges Howard, but Ryan, from a production and 'impact' standpoint edges Pete. At catcher, Boone edges Ruiz, but not by much. I think Boone was more consistent with the bat, though Ruiz shows more power. I agree the current 'Keystone Combo' is better than Bowa and Trillo. Victorino is still learning in center. Maddox made everything look effortless. Shane, at times, looks a little frantic out there, though he usually gets the job done. I think Maddox got a better 'jump' or knew the batters better that he was almost always in position to get to the ball. Overall, though, I think this is a better 'team'...Seems to have more energy and camraderie which is intangible.

You are correct it was Shake and Bake in right. Johnstone and Brown were more 70's.

I don't know anyone who could make playing the outfield look as easy as Maddox.

I loved Ralph Kiner's comment. Two-thirds of the earth's surface is covered by water. The rest is covered by Gary Maddox.

[93henfan]

The Phils' '80 outfield was one of the least aerodynamic in baseball history, making Maddox's speed just that much more impressive. That has to be about a size 10 hat:

http://www.160over90.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/garry_maddox.jpghttp://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/bake_mcbride_autograph.jpg

[93henfan]

I just going through my DVR and saw a good case from last night's SportsFinal for including both Happ and Drabek in the Halladay deal.

Phils can't miss prospects rarely pan out. Other than Cole Hamels, here are the career numbers of the can't-miss Phils pitching prospects of the past couple of decades:

Brad Brink: 0-4 record, 3.56 ERA
Pat Combs: 17-17, 4.22
Adam Eaton: 70-68, 4.94
Wayne Gomes: 30-23, 4.60
Tyler Green: 18-25, 5.16
Carlton Loewer: 10-18, 6.12

[GannonFan]

I just going through my DVR and saw a good case from last night's SportsFinal for including both Happ and Drabek in the Halladay deal.

Phils can't miss prospects rarely pan out. Other than Cole Hamels, here are the career numbers of the can't-miss Phils pitching prospects of the past couple of decades:

Brad Brink: 0-4 record, 3.56 ERA
Pat Combs: 17-17, 4.22
Adam Eaton: 70-68, 4.94
Wayne Gomes: 30-23, 4.60
Tyler Green: 18-25, 5.16
Carlton Loewer: 10-18, 6.12

The thing is, this organization has been much better run over the past several years and the minor league system has greatly improved. Of course there's plenty of baggage if you head back to the 90's - the organization was one of the worst in baseball back then, whereas now you can actually start to believe them a little bit when they evaluate players.

The only reason I wouldn't included both Happ and Drabek is (heard this on Sports Reporters) that you may be getting Halladay for what amounts to hopefully 6 postseason starts this year (assuming you have made the playoffs, which the Phillies should assume). Of course I want another World Series title, but even with Halladay, who's never pitched an inning of post season baseball, there's no guarantee. Heck, Halladay could be more CC Sabbathia than Curt Schilling once he gets to the post season - I doubt it, but it's a risk.

[blukeys]

The thing is, this organization has been much better run over the past several years and the minor league system has greatly improved. Of course there's plenty of baggage if you head back to the 90's - the organization was one of the worst in baseball back then, whereas now you can actually start to believe them a little bit when they evaluate players.

The only reason I wouldn't included both Happ and Drabek is (heard this on Sports Reporters) that you may be getting Halladay for what amounts to hopefully 6 postseason starts this year (assuming you have made the playoffs, which the Phillies should assume). Of course I want another World Series title, but even with Halladay, who's never pitched an inning of post season baseball, there's no guarantee. Heck, Halladay could be more CC Sabbathia than Curt Schilling once he gets to the post season - I doubt it, but it's a risk.


I have to agree. I was told early on that we should not give the 1st base job to Ryan Howard. I was also told by long time Phillie fans that Placido Blanco was a better bet at 2b than Chase Utley. (I would still love to see Blanco in a Phillies unifrom)

The ability to judge talent has improved immensely within the system. There is a reason the Jays are talking to the Phils for a trade and that is the Phils have the better prospects within their system than the other contenders.

I am in favor of the right trade but right now the Jays are asking for too much. if they keeping asking for the same, I say walk away on 7-31

[Ivytalk]

I have to agree. I was told early on that we should not give the 1st base job to Ryan Howard. I was also told by long time Phillie fans that Placido Blanco was a better bet at 2b than Chase Utley. (I would still love to see Blanco in a Phillies unifrom)

The ability to judge talent has improved immensely within the system. There is a reason the Jays are talking to the Phils for a trade and that is the Phils have the better prospects within their system than the other contenders.

I am in favor of the right trade but right now the Jays are asking for too much. if they keeping asking for the same, I say walk away on 7-31

I agree, blukeys. Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em...xnodx

[blukeys]

The Phils' '80 outfield was one of the least aerodynamic in baseball history, making Maddox's speed just that much more impressive. That has to be about a size 10 hat:

http://www.160over90.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/garry_maddox.jpghttp://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/bake_mcbride_autograph.jpg

Holy Afro Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wi xxsmiley_wix

[ngineer]

I have to agree. I was told early on that we should not give the 1st base job to Ryan Howard. I was also told by long time Phillie fans that Placido Blanco was a better bet at 2b than Chase Utley. (I would still love to see Blanco in a Phillies unifrom)

The ability to judge talent has improved immensely within the system. There is a reason the Jays are talking to the Phils for a trade and that is the Phils have the better prospects within their system than the other contenders.

I am in favor of the right trade but right now the Jays are asking for too much. if they keeping asking for the same, I say walk away on 7-31

Do you mean Placido Polanco?? I agree Utley is a cut above, but I would have kept him, at the time, at 3B. Pedro is really doing the job, now, though.
I agree about not giving away the pitching store with both Happ and Drabek. One or the other.

[Hoyadestroya85]

When will you guys learn to lose! I'm ripping my hair out haha.

[Ivytalk]

Phils open road trip with 6-2 win over dbacks. Good outing for Moyer. Howard hit another bomb.xthumbsupx

[93henfan]

Phils open road trip with 6-2 win over dbacks. Good outing for Moyer. Howard hit another bomb.xthumbsupx

Darn west coast games. I only watched the first three innings. Moyer was walking a fine line. IIRC, he left two men stranded in the second and got out of a bases loaded jam in the third. He's been racking up the wins lately. I guess it doesn't matter how you get it done as long as you get it done. xthumbsupx

I did watch the Cards smoke the Dodgers. Nice to see the Phils creeping up on the Dodgers a little bit.

[93henfan]

I just read some tidbits in the Philled In blog in the (Wilmington, DE) News Journal. Reporter Scott Lauber is with the team in Arizona and says that the reports of Jays-Phils talks getting contentious are overblown and that both sides are still intently talking. He also dutifully noted that both Halladay and Happ pitch Wednesday night and following those games both the Jays and Phils fly to San Francisco for their weekend series and will be staying at the same hotel. That puts both front offices in the same building for the last two days before the deadline. Interesting. xeyebrowx

[GannonFan]

... He also dutifully noted that both Halladay and Happ pitch Wednesday night and following those games both the Jays and Phils fly to San Francisco for their weekend series and will be staying at the same hotel. That puts both front offices in the same building for the last two days before the deadline. Interesting. xeyebrowx

Very interesting indeed. Quite the little quirk in the schedule there, isn't it? xnodx

[ngineer]

Phils open road trip with 6-2 win over dbacks. Good outing for Moyer. Howard hit another bomb.xthumbsupx

Moyer was Houdini last night. Then once he got past the third, he was Seaver. Cole needs to give another solid one tonight.

[blukeys]

There are a lot of reports of Phillie fans showing up in big numbers in every ball park where the Phils are visitors. This is obviously a fun team to watch and many folks are front runners but I see it differently.

I think the old East Coast cities tend to nurture a more passionate fan base than newer western cities. In the case of certain fan bases, the long time frustration of "wait till next year" just gives one a surge of pride when next year finally arrives.

I think the Phils are seeing a replay of the Boston experience. The losingist franchise of all time is finally good. Everyone who has a connection or sympathy with this franchise is loving the play and in some cases the dominance of a very talented team.

For those of us who suffered thru '64 this is a much earned compensation for years of loyalty. I think there are guys like me who now live in Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and maybe even Chicago. With a jersey and a cap you can reclaim the well earned rewards of sticking with the team of your youth.

[Hoyadestroya85]

There are a lot of reports of Phillie fans showing up in big numbers in every ball park where the Phils are visitors. This is obviously a fun team to watch and many folks are front runners but I see it differently.

I think the old East Coast cities tend to nurture a more passionate fan base than newer western cities. In the case of certain fan bases, the long time frustration of "wait till next year" just gives one a surge of pride when next year finally arrives.

I think the Phils are seeing a replay of the Boston experience. The losingist franchise of all time is finally good. Everyone who has a connection or sympathy with this franchise is loving the play and in some cases the dominance of a very talented team.

For those of us who suffered thru '64 this is a much earned compensation for years of loyalty. I think there are guys like me who now live in Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and maybe even Chicago. With a jersey and a cap you can reclaim the well earned rewards of sticking with the team of your youth.

This team is still second or third in its own market in interest.. If Donovan McNabb takes a dump that looks weird its going to be the top story on SportsNite or on the backpage of the daily news. Philadelphia probably will never be a "baseball town" like New York, St. Louis or Chicago, but the Phils recent success has sure done quite a bit to bolster its fanbase. But still has long as there is that football team that plays across the parking lot from the Phillies, they will ALWAYS have to play second fiddle.

[MR. CHICKEN]

There are a lot of reports of Phillie fans showing up in big numbers in every ball park where the Phils are visitors. This is obviously a fun team to watch and many folks are front runners but I see it differently.

I think the old East Coast cities tend to nurture a more passionate fan base than newer western cities. In the case of certain fan bases, the long time frustration of "wait till next year" just gives one a surge of pride when next year finally arrives.

I think the Phils are seeing a replay of the Boston experience. The losingist franchise of all time is finally good. Everyone who has a connection or sympathy with this franchise is loving the play and in some cases the dominance of a very talented team.

For those of us who suffered thru '64 this is a much earned compensation for years of loyalty. I think there are guys like me who now live in Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and maybe even Chicago. With a jersey and a cap you can reclaim the well earned rewards of sticking with the team of your youth.

WELL SAID 'KEYS.......EVERAH LISTEN TA UH COMPUTER CAST O' CAL-POLY GAMESxconfusedx........WHEN UH MUSTANG FUMBLES.........IT'S...."GOLLY GEE...NOBLE.....MAYBE NEXT TIME"....vs......"HOLD ON TA DUH ROCK...D-BAG...AN' YER MAMA......WEARS.....CONSTRUCTION BOOTS"!....xmadx.....DOODLE-DOO!

[93henfan]

When I was stationed in Southern California, Phils fans mobbed the place in both San Diego and LA and these were some lean years (late 90s). It's a large city with lots of transplants. They are well represented on the road. I imagine it's even crazier now that the team is WFC.

And I'm not sure what the definition of "baseball town" is, but I know the Phils are at higher capacity than the Mets and Yankees.xlolx

[89Hen]

This team is still second or third in its own market in interest..
Are there any cities that have football where that isn't the case? Football is king.

[89Hen]

BTW, M&M this morning were reporting the Phillies may be shifting their attention to the Indians and getting Cliff Lee. xeyebrowx

[93henfan]

Are there any cities that have football where that isn't the case? Football is king.

You might be able to find the odd town where the baseball team overshadows the football team. St. Louis comes to mind. Boston proper may be close, but only because the football team is (guessing) 30 miles away.

But I agree with your premise.

[93henfan]

BTW, M&M this morning were reporting the Phillies may be shifting their attention to the Indians and getting Cliff Lee. xeyebrowx

Yeah, that's what people are reporting. I think most of us would be fine with that if it means we keep Drabek.




But I really, really, REALLY want Halladay!

[89Hen]

St. Louis comes to mind. Boston proper may be close
Those were the two that I thought of, but I'm not sure when the Rams are good, the Cards are #1.

[gmoney55]

You might be able to find the odd town where the baseball team overshadows the football team. St. Louis comes to mind. Boston proper may be close, but only because the football team is (guessing) 30 miles away.

But I agree with your premise.

NYC as well....Yankees are the clear No. 1, then a big gap to the Mets at No. 2, and another big gap to the Giants at No. 3.....and the Knicks could be back to the Giants territory if they ever pull it together. But I do think the football teams being so far away plays into it in NYC, as well as the baseball history.

[93henfan]

I'm really digging some of the insight from The News Journal's Scott Lauber. Here's his latest report from Arizona:


Regardless of what he says, I believe Ricciardi is highly motivated to meet ownership’s demands to shed payroll, and he knows he can fetch a greater return for Halladay if he trades him now rather than in the offseason. Unless the Red Sox make an offer that involves Clay Buchholz, the Phillies will put together the best package, and in the end, I think the sides will agree to include 19-year-old right-hander Jason Knapp instead of Drabek. It may not happen until the last minute, but I think the Phillies will get Halladay for Happ, Knapp, Brown and triple-A shortstop Jason Donald, who returned last night after minor knee surgery in June and went 2-for-4.

[GannonFan]

This team is still second or third in its own market in interest.. If Donovan McNabb takes a dump that looks weird its going to be the top story on SportsNite or on the backpage of the daily news. Philadelphia probably will never be a "baseball town" like New York, St. Louis or Chicago, but the Phils recent success has sure done quite a bit to bolster its fanbase. But still has long as there is that football team that plays across the parking lot from the Phillies, they will ALWAYS have to play second fiddle.

3rd??? Huh??? Have you been in Philly lately? Of course back in the 90's the the Phils were not a real blip on the scene compared to the Eagles or Flyers, but the Phils are every bit as popular now as the Birds are (and hockey has gone into hibernation). Just go down to the park one night (assuming you can get tickets - 45k people in the stadium every night makes it harder to get tickets these days) and tell me that's not a scene down there - the place is a non-stop party. And when you get between 2-3 million people for a parade, that's saying a lot.

I can understand if you used to be in the area and have since moved away that you may have missed the resurgence of the Phils and the reawakening of Philly as a great baseball town (which it's always been, despite having the losingest franchise of all time), but there's no doubt that the town is gaga over the Phillies right now, even compared to the Eagles.

[GannonFan]

I'm really digging some of the insight from The News Journal's Scott Lauber. Here's his latest report from Arizona:


It may not happen until the last minute, but I think the Phillies will get Halladay for Happ, Knapp, Brown and triple-A shortstop Jason Donald, who returned last night after minor knee surgery in June and went 2-for-4.

I wouldn't be shocked if that trade came about and I'd be perfectly fine with it. Heck, I'd even through in another guy (just not Drabek, Taylor, or Marson) into that package as well. Maybe Mayberry? That would give the Blue Jays two guys off the major league roster, a blue chip pitching prospect, a blue chip outfield prospect, and a shortstop who could probably play for their major league team (Donald has been stuck in the minors with Rollins at SS and Ruiz at 3rd on the major league team). That's pretty decent value. Of course no one may ever equal what Halladay is, but it's almost impossible to make a trade that would be that.

[gmoney55]

I wouldn't be shocked if that trade came about and I'd be perfectly fine with it. Heck, I'd even through in another guy (just not Drabek, Taylor, or Marson) into that package as well. Maybe Mayberry? That would give the Blue Jays two guys off the major league roster, a blue chip pitching prospect, a blue chip outfield prospect, and a shortstop who could probably play for their major league team (Donald has been stuck in the minors with Rollins at SS and Ruiz at 3rd on the major league team). That's pretty decent value. Of course no one may ever equal what Halladay is, but it's almost impossible to make a trade that would be that.

I'd bet that's where the trade ends up....I think the only real issue with Phillies first offer is Carrasco's star has fallen a bit, while Knapp is on the rise.

[93henfan]

I really wish the Red Sox would go ahead and make their pitching move so the Jays can't keep using that chip.

[GannonFan]

I'd bet that's where the trade ends up....I think the only real issue with Phillies first offer is Carrasco's star has fallen a bit, while Knapp is on the rise.

And it's basically an in-between package for what the Blue Jays wanted and what the Phils offered. Especially if they throw Mayberry in, which may or may not be necessary, it's a good package.

I definitely think this gets done as another poster pointed out that the Phils and the Blue Jays front offices are both going to be in the same hotel in San Francisco/Oakland starting tomorrow night as the Phils and Jays are playing the Giants and A's respectively this weekend. Couldn't have worked out better.

It would be interesting, if Halladay stays through his contract, that the NL East could have the two best pitchers in baseball in Santana and Halladay pitching in it next year.

[89Hen]

NYC as well....Yankees are the clear No. 1, then a big gap to the Mets at No. 2, and another big gap to the Giants at No. 3.....and
Seriously? I'll have to take your word for it, but I'd be shocked to hear the Mets are bigger than the Giants. I could see the Yanks and Giants being on equal footing. xeyebrowx

[Ivytalk]

My gut tells me that the Phils will make neither trade (Lee, Halladay). But not for lack of effort.xpeacex

[93henfan]

It's tough to compare baseball and football teams. Baseball will always have higher attendance due to length of season. The next comparison might be TV contracts. Who has the bigger TV contract between the Yankees on YES and their other agreements with Fox, ESPN, et al and the Giants with the various NFL packages with Fox, ABC/ESPN, DirecTV, et al? I really don't know, just wondering. Lastly, you can compare franchise valuations. Currently (per Forbes' 2009 list):

1. Manchester United - $1.8B
2. Dallas Cowboys - $1.6B
3. Washington Redskins - $1.5B
4. New England Patriots - $1.32B
5. New York Yankees - $1.3B
6. Real Madrid - $1.29B
7. Arsenal - $1.2B
8. New York Giants - $1.18B
9. New York Jets - $1.17B
10. Houston Texans - $1.17B

Looks like NFL beats baseball in every city with the exception of the Yanks.

[foghorn]

Looks like it's Cliff Lee. If this goes through, looks very good for the Phils, who get to keep both Happ and Drabek for last year's Cy Young winner.http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Carrasco_scratched.html

[93henfan]

Looks like it's Cliff Lee. If his goes through, looks very good for the Phils, who get to keep both Happ and Drabek for last year's Cy Young winner.http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Carrasco_scratched.html

ESPN reporting no Happ, Drabek or Brown in the deal!!!

STEAL!!!

xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

[whitey]

Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. How do those three prospects rank in your system? Not too shabby considering you get to hang on to Happ & Drabek. Cliff Lee is under control for 2010 as well assuming the Phillies pick up his option and then if he walks away after that you get 2 draft picks which would soften the blow from losing those prospects. Not a bad deal for the Phillies at all. Might as well go for it the next couple of years.

What does this mean for Pedro? Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Happ. Who goes to the pen? Is Myers do back soon? Philly looks to have a lot of decent options for the rotation come August/September.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. How do those three prospects rank in your system? Not too shabby considering you get to hang on to Happ & Drabek. Cliff Lee is under control for 2010 as well assuming the Phillies pick up his option and then if he walks away after that you get 2 draft picks which would soften the blow from losing those prospects. Not a bad deal for the Phillies at all. Might as well go for it the next couple of years.

What does this mean for Pedro? Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Happ. Who goes to the pen? Is Myers do back soon? Philly looks to have a lot of decent options for the rotation come August/September.

All four prospects in this deal are rated top ten in the Phillies farm system (Carrasco 2, Marson 3, Donald 4, Knapp 10). Knapp is still a teenager, has a fastball in the mid 90's and is reported to have a huge potential upside. Still a great deal for the Phillies IMHO.

I think Pedro still has a chance to earn a spot in the rotation, but I think this deal will give him a much narrower window to prove himself. If Pedro does prove to be effective, I think Moyer gets put out to pasture.

[foghorn]

That means 4 out of 5 Phils' starters are lefties, Blanton being the only righty. Well, Myers returning would change that. If Myers becomes serviceable this year, along with Pedro, the Phils have a lot of options. Get your popcorn ready for the series!xsmiley_wix

[whitey]

This really sounds a lot like the Santana to the Mets trade which was obviously a win for the Mets. Looks like a real good trade for the Phillies.

[93henfan]

My gut tells me that the Phils will make neither trade (Lee, Halladay). But not for lack of effort.xpeacex

And they wonder why people don't trust lawyers? :p

[Touchdown Yosef]

Great trade for the Phils! In the last month their starting pitching has gone from dismal and thin to one of the deepest in baseball.

Hamels
Lee
Blanton
Happ
Moyer
Pedro
I don't know why but the current 5th starter, who's been good, name has slipped my mind.

I like the idea of going to a 6 man rotation to keep arms fresh for the fall.

[89Hen]

My gut tells me that the Phils will make neither trade (Lee, Halladay). But not for lack of effort.xpeacex
Maybe it wasn't the trade that you were feeling. xeyebrowx xsmiley_wix

http://www.248am.com/images/chilih.jpg

[SunCoastBlueHen]

All four prospects in this deal are rated top ten in the Phillies farm system (Carrasco 2, Marson 3, Donald 4, Knapp 10).

Upon further review, the above prospect rankings were all from the preseason. Carrasco, Donald and Marson have all seen their stock drop since then, while Drabek, Taylor and Brown have had their stock rise. This deal looks even better than I first thought. :)

[93henfan]

I don't know why but the current 5th starter, who's been good, name has slipped my mind.

Lopez. It was Bastardo right after Brett Meyers went on the DL, but he too was put on the DL. Meyers is slated to return to the pen as early as three weeks from now.

[93henfan]

This deal looks even better than I first thought. :)

xnodx Methinks the Cleveland GM still has a soft spot for Uncle Chollie. xnodx

[89Hen]

Lopez.
3-0 in four games with a 3.09 ERA, 15 K's and 6 BB's. Not shabby for your projected 6th starter. xeyebrowx

[93henfan]

So the Phils now have how many former MVPs, ROYs, and Cy Young winners? I've lost count. :p

This is chicken soup for the fans of the team that stunk for so long's souls. xthumbsupx

[Hoyadestroya85]

Are there any cities that have football where that isn't the case? Football is king.

New York, Detroit, Chicago

[Hoyadestroya85]

3rd??? Huh??? Have you been in Philly lately? Of course back in the 90's the the Phils were not a real blip on the scene compared to the Eagles or Flyers, but the Phils are every bit as popular now as the Birds are (and hockey has gone into hibernation). Just go down to the park one night (assuming you can get tickets - 45k people in the stadium every night makes it harder to get tickets these days) and tell me that's not a scene down there - the place is a non-stop party. And when you get between 2-3 million people for a parade, that's saying a lot.

I can understand if you used to be in the area and have since moved away that you may have missed the resurgence of the Phils and the reawakening of Philly as a great baseball town (which it's always been, despite having the losingest franchise of all time), but there's no doubt that the town is gaga over the Phillies right now, even compared to the Eagles.

I live in the area now.. and frankly it annoys me that whenever Donovan throws a little tantrum it makes the back page of the news. Once the Flyers start to contend again, they will overtake the Phils. And as a matter of fact, when i moved to Philly in 1996 the Phils were well on their way to being a distant fourth in interest for Philly fans because The sixers were good, with a new arena and a solid coach once Larry Brown came to town. I think the stadium has a lot to do with it, but I still think that they will eventually retreat back to being third in the minds of Philly sports fans.

[GannonFan]

New York, Detroit, Chicago

Yes, New York has the Yankees, but the Giants are a pretty close 2nd. Detroit's football team has been bad for generations and they are a hockey town anyway. Not sure about Chicago, though, the Bears are pretty well off.

[Ivytalk]

I was wrong: the Phils got a deal done. What's the word about Ben Francisco? I heard he's an outfielder with some pop from the right side.

[gmoney55]

Yes, New York has the Yankees, but the Giants are a pretty close 2nd. Detroit's football team has been bad for generations and they are a hockey town anyway. Not sure about Chicago, though, the Bears are pretty well off.

Not true, from what I can tell from living up here now. Yankees, Mets are a distant second and then Giants. Football just isn't big enough in NYC.

[GannonFan]

Not true, from what I can tell from living up here now. Yankees, Mets are a distant second and then Giants. Football just isn't big enough in NYC.

My friends who live there say differently, and many are Mets fans. xpeacex

[Hoyadestroya85]

My friends who live there say differently, and many are Mets fans. xpeacex

You can argue the most popular team in new york history was the '86 Mets.. It may have just been the personality of the team, but they were rock stars. Their Music Video was constantly on MTV.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

xnodx Methinks the Cleveland GM still has a soft spot for Uncle Chollie. xnodx

2009 stats for the players the Phils gave up in this trade -

Marson - .294 1HR 24 RBI in 63 games at Lehigh Valley - many questions about his defensive ability

Donald - .236 1HR 16 RBI at Lehigh Valley - coming off knee surgery

Carrasco - 6-8 with a 5.16 ERA in 20 starts at Lehigh Valley

Knapp 2-7 with a 4.01 ERA in 17 starts at low A Lakewood - also sidelined with a knee injury.

The Phillies got a steal! xnodxxnodxxnodxxnodx

[93henfan]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/One_final_hurdle_for_Lee_deal.html


Jays manager Cito Gaston was asked about the impending Lee trade.

“Is it official now? So what is Cleveland doing there?" he said. "I know they’re (unloading) but what are they doing?”

Gaston was then asked if it made him feel any better that one of Halladay's suitor was presumably off the board.

“Well, yeah. It tells me [Philadelphia] is not going to take him? Who knows? They might come back and get him, too," he said. "That would be a pretty good staff over there, wouldn’t it? Because from what I understand, they didn’t give up any of their [top] prospects, not the ones we [reportedly] wanted."

Then he started to laugh: "Hey, it’s still out there maybe. It’s better to have two than one, isn’t it? We’ll see what happens. Today’s the 29th. We’ve still got two days. So it’s still alive.”

[93henfan]

Dude. How old is Cliff Lee's wife? Did he get a waiver?

http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cliffleefamily.jpg

[93henfan]

Lol @ Indians fans' comments: http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2009/07/in_breaking_up_the_cleveland_i.html

[ngineer]

Mitch Williams' comment tonight was great, "Reuben must have been wearing a mask when he pulled this off."xnodx
What a great move. They keep their top prospects and get a CY pitcher plus a good RHPH off the bench.xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

You can argue the most popular team in new york history was the '86 Mets.. It may have just been the personality of the team, but they were rock stars. Their Music Video was constantly on MTV.

The '86 Mets had a music video?? Wow, I grew up on MTV during that time and I've never in my life seen that video. Maybe it was a local New York MTV thing??? xlolx

[93henfan]

The '86 Mets had a music video?? Wow, I grew up on MTV during that time and I've never in my life seen that video. Maybe it was a local New York MTV thing??? xlolx

I don't remember it either. I remember the Superbowl Shuffle, but nothing with the Mets, other than their fights at spring training, half the team on coke, and David Cone yanking it in the bullpen. That team was one competent Boston first baseman from being forgotten.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I don't remember it either. I remember the Superbowl Shuffle, but nothing with the Mets, other than their fights at spring training, half the team on coke, and David Cone yanking it in the bullpen. That team was one competent Boston first baseman from being forgotten.

a) david cone was traded to the Mets in 87
b) Stanley wasn't covering first, Mook would have beaten him to the bag and the game was already tied at the point.. Knight scored to win the game not tie it. Stanley or Schiraldi along with McNamara were the real goats of that series.
c) behold: Martha Quinn, Nails and Roger McDowell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHwiDZ3pgQ&feature=related)

[89Hen]

The '86 Mets had a music video?? Wow, I grew up on MTV during that time and I've never in my life seen that video. Maybe it was a local New York MTV thing??? xlolx

I don't remember it either. I remember the Superbowl Shuffle, but nothing with the Mets
Agreed and I was living on a floor at UD with tons of Mets fans. I remember sitting the hall watching the Buckner play like it was yesterday. the disbelief was amazing.

[89Hen]

c) behold: Martha Quinn, Nails and Roger McDowell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHwiDZ3pgQ&feature=related)
Nope. Never seen it. xeyebrowx

[93henfan]

That video does give you an appreciation for how small Dykstra was before he started with the 'roid cycles.

[89Hen]

That video does give you an appreciation for how small Dykstra was before he started with the 'roid cycles.
xlolx I was thinking the same thing. Martha Quinn had bigger arms.

[93henfan]

I like this guy already. xthumbsupx


"Obviously I'm going to miss these guys. But this is an opportunity to join a team in first place, the defending world champions. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to meet up with them and help them win."


"It's real now so I just have to find a way to meet up with them and just get acclimated. I'm anxious and excited to get there. It's the National League. I'm going to have to figure out how to get a bunt down more consistently."


"Right now, all I know is I'm going to the defending world champions. That's a good thing."

[89Hen]

I like this guy already. xthumbsupx
xnodx xnodx I decided this morning I'm maybe more happy with Lee than Halliday.

[blukeys]

I like this guy already. xthumbsupx

All accounts have been that this guy is a competitor and a good team guy. I don't know if this makes him better than Halladay but it does make him a good fit for this team.

[Ivytalk]

xnodx xnodx I decided this morning I'm maybe more happy with Lee than Halliday.

So when will he get his first start? This weekend against Lincecum?

[93henfan]

So when will he get his first start? This weekend against Lincecum?

It all depends on when the physicals clear (hopefully) on the soon-to-be-former-Phils wounded warriors.

[ngineer]

So when will he get his first start? This weekend against Lincecum?

Manuel said tonight before the game that Lee will start Friday, tomorrow, against the Giants as his regular day. Phils currently sleepwalking against the Giants with two errors leading to 4 runs and already down 7-1. I'm not staying up for this crap.xsmhx

[93henfan]

So when will he get his first start? This weekend against Lincecum?

Per the Phila Inquirer:


Pitching coach Rich Dubee said that after Lee starts tonight, Joe Blanton will pitch tomorrow and Cole Hamels on Sunday. After Monday's off-day, Jamie Moyer will pitch Tuesday and Happ on Wednesday. The team would not commit to a rotation beyond that point.

The start last night was likely the last for Rodrigo Lopez for the Phils, barring injury or a change in plans. The team could conceivably retain him as a reliever.

[GannonFan]

Well, no need to worry about Pedro coming up and bumping Happ to the bullpen yet - Pedro's numbers after his start for Triple-A Lehigh Valley tonight:

Pitchers POS NOTE IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Martinez, P P (L, 0-1) 5.0 3 5 4 3 4 1 7.20

I would imagine there's another Lehigh Valley start lined up for the middle of next week. xnodx

[93henfan]

Wow. Cliff Lee has faced the minimum through five with just one walk. This guy is a pleasure to watch. He's batting .500 too. :p

[93henfan]

Cliff Lee's debut:

Complete game, 5-1 win! :D

9.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K

[blukeys]

Cliff Lee's debut:

Complete game, 5-1 win! :D

9.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K

Yeah, I think he may be a keeper.xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wix

[foghorn]

Yeah, I think he may be a keeper.xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wix
And he can pinch hit for Bruntlett. :D

[93henfan]

And he can pinch hit for Bruntlett. :D

xlmaoxxlmaoxxlmaox

He really was taking some sweet hacks at the ball out of that open stance. I was impressed.

Then again, NL pitchers haven't figured him out yet. ;)

[89Hen]

Cliff Lee's debut:

Complete game, 5-1 win! :D

9.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K
Told you. :D

[ngineer]

And he can pinch hit for Bruntlett. :D

Yeah, poor Eric. If it weren't for his versatility in the field, he'd have been sent down or released a long time ago...xsmhx

[blukeys]

Well, no need to worry about Pedro coming up and bumping Happ to the bullpen yet - Pedro's numbers after his start for Triple-A Lehigh Valley tonight:

Pitchers POS NOTE IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Martinez, P P (L, 0-1) 5.0 3 5 4 3 4 1 7.20

I would imagine there's another Lehigh Valley start lined up for the middle of next week. xnodx

Cnarlie may have a problem if Meyers comes back strong. Right now everyone is putting together some good outings. Should Meyers be considered in the closer role.

[bluehenbillk]

Myers will be back health permitting only in the pen, which is where either Pedro or Happ will end up.

Lee looked like a Cy Young winner last night and Francisco impresses me with the bat so far.

[ngineer]

Myers will be back health permitting only in the pen, which is where either Pedro or Happ will end up.

Lee looked like a Cy Young winner last night and Francisco impresses me with the bat so far.

No question Myers will be in the pen when he comes back. Amaro already said so a few weeks ago. He won't have the stamina or 'stretchout' needed to start. However, With the rotation needed for the playoffs, that will be a plus.

[GannonFan]

Cnarlie may have a problem if Meyers comes back strong. Right now everyone is putting together some good outings. Should Meyers be considered in the closer role.

Eh, Myers wasn't all that great of a closer when he was in that role back in '07. He was serviceable, but he wasn't stellar. And as others have said, even Myers has said that he's not coming back as a starter - just not enough time to get ready to be one.

[93henfan]

Lincecum was very good tonight, but the Phils need to start hitting with RISP. They had men on base all night.

The official time of this game had to be ~2:15. Blanton and Lincecum don't waste any time.

[ngineer]

Lincecum was very good tonight, but the Phils need to start hitting with RISP. They had men on base all night.

The official time of this game had to be ~2:15. Blanton and Lincecum don't waste any time.

Yes, that was a 'classic' ol' pitchers' duel. Phils doing the same dance as in Arizona. Not getting the 'clutch hit' with men ISP. Very frustrating, especially when that happens in the early innings and you know you could have blown the game open and miss that opportunity, because with Lincecum you know won't get many shots. Too bad Stairs' throw to the plate was off target. Rowand should have been out by a mile.

[93henfan]

Cliff Lee was about the only highlight of a dreadful road trip.

[ngineer]

Cliff Lee was about the only highlight of a dreadful road trip.

Phils were lucky to go 3-4 on this trip. Anderson was right on today. Phils aren't hitting the quality pitchers. They tear up mediocrity....and luckily, there is a lot more of the latter.

[Ivytalk]

Phils were lucky to go 3-4 on this trip. Anderson was right on today. Phils aren't hitting the quality pitchers. They tear up mediocrity....and luckily, there is a lot more of the latter.

If that's the case, the Colorado series should bring just what the doctor ordered!xpeacex

But our pitchers still have to get their hitters out!:o

[93henfan]

All I can say at this point is thank God the Phils are in the NL Least. They go on a 1-5 skid and only lose a game on the Marlins. xlolx

[GannonFan]

All I can say at this point is thank God the Phils are in the NL Least. They go on a 1-5 skid and only lose a game on the Marlins. xlolx

Eh, they could be in either the AL or NL Centrals and still be okay too - it's not like the NL East is any worse than those divisions.

[93henfan]

Our boy Pedro went six innings, 11 Ks xeekx, 3 ERs tonight in Reading. He was dominant through five, giving up one run, and then tired badly in the 6th. No decision yet on whether he'll do another rehab start or be called up.

[93henfan]

The Bank was rockin' tonight. 46th sellout of the season. Phils win 7-0.

J.A. Happ was dominant in his second complete game shutout of the year. Tonight's line:

9.0 IP, 10 K, 2 BB, 4 H, 0 R

Happ got a standing ovation for his 8th inning plate appearance and promptly smashed a double over the Rockies center fielder.

[foghorn]

Well, if Pedro earns a starting spot in the rotation, I hope that Happ's performance was the icing on the cake to keep him in the rotation and drop Moyer.
I also lke the way Jay showed up that centerfielder who played him behind second like a little leaguer. Smacked it over his head and made him run. Gotta love it!xlolx

[93henfan]

Smacked it over his head and made him run. Gotta love it!xlolx

I loved how he flipped the ball back disgustedly to the cutoff man. Priceless. xlolx

And yeah, if they keep a five man rotation with Pedro, Moyer's gotta go. 5.55 ERA just doesn't deserve a starting slot this late in the season if Pedro is still serviceable.

[Touchdown Yosef]

I loved how he flipped the ball back disgustedly to the cutoff man. Priceless. xlolx

And yeah, if they keep a five man rotation with Pedro, Moyer's gotta go. Worst ERA of the starters, and that's with Hamels and Blanton both over 4.00.

Yea I agree but I am steaming mad right now reading both ESPN and the phils website, it sounds like happ is destined for the bullpen b/c of the success he has already had there.

Let me be clear Philly Put Moyer out to Pasture!!! He is a liability and you never should have signed him this offseason!!! He is awful and over the hill get him out of the rotation. He never should have gotten a contract this year. Moyer was a liability in the playoffs and he is great against young undisciplined hitters but Happ needs to stay in the rotation. Lee, Hammels, Blanton, Happ, Martinez or whoever in the 5th spot.

Please don't move your second best pitcher right now to the pen it would not be good for the team or for Happ. The kid is a starter, keep him there.

[93henfan]

Yea I agree but I am steaming mad right now reading both ESPN and the phils website, it sounds like happ is destined for the bullpen b/c of the success he has already had there.

Let me be clear Philly Put Moyer out to Pasture!!! He is a liability and you never should have signed him this offseason!!! He is awful and over the hill get him out of the rotation. He never should have gotten a contract this year. Moyer was a liability in the playoffs and he is great against young undisciplined hitters but Happ needs to stay in the rotation. Lee, Hammels, Blanton, Happ, Martinez or whoever in the 5th spot.

Please don't move your second best pitcher right now to the pen it would not be good for the team or for Happ. The kid is a starter, keep him there.

Cue GannonFan to defend the old-timer. Keywords: experience, crafty, tested

:p

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I have no idea why Moyer came back. Why would you not want to go out on top with the team you basically grew up with? The only way Moyer can succeed at this point is to face a young team with an ump that will let him paint the corners. If faces a disciplined team or an ump with a small strike zone he's got no shot. Happ has to stay and Moyers gotta go!!

[MR. CHICKEN]

MOYER STAYS.......LINE-UP.....OUT HITS.....HIS PITCHIN'.....:o.....BRAWK/OBAMA/BIDEN!!!

[GannonFan]

Cue GannonFan to defend the old-timer. Keywords: experience, crafty, tested

:p

Huh? Why would I defend an old-timer or Moyer in particular? Wasn't aware that I had in anyway given that indication. Care to say why you drew that conclusion? I think the only guy I really defended was Romero, and that was just responding to Foggy's craziness. :p

As for the Phils, hey, Moyer's not going to be in the starting rotation for the playoffs. Obviously the top 3 are clearly set in Hamels, Lee, and Blanton, and then it looks to be either Happ or Pedro for the 4th and final spot. As for Pedro, although I'm sure he'll get a chance to start, he looks to have great stuff for a bullpen slot - 11 K's in 6 innings, and once again tiring late in his start.

Right now, I'd ask Moyer to stub his toe getting out of the shower and use that as an excuse to put him on the 15 day DL and let Pedro take his place for 3-4 starts and go from there.

[GannonFan]

I have no idea why Moyer came back. Why would you not want to go out on top with the team you basically grew up with? The only way Moyer can succeed at this point is to face a young team with an ump that will let him paint the corners. If faces a disciplined team or an ump with a small strike zone he's got no shot. Happ has to stay and Moyers gotta go!!

Didn't they give him $8M for two years? Hard to turn down money like that.

[93henfan]

Damn, I deleted after I had already hooked ya but before you posted. :p You usually retort just about every point I make, so I was just trying to serve it up for you.

[GannonFan]

Damn, I deleted after I had already hooked ya but before you posted. :p You usually retort just about every point I make, so I was just trying to serve it up for you.

Well, if you weren't wrong all the time I wouldn't have to retort, would I??? :p:p:pxlolxxlolx

[93henfan]

Yeah, you're never wrong. xrolleyesx :p

[ngineer]

I agree Happ has to stay in the rotation after tonight's performance. Not only because of that, but I think sending him to the pen could have a negative impact on the team. You don't demote someone who clearly is outperforming others without negative fallout occuring...same occurs in the business world. It may well happen, but the negative effects fester and cause bigger problems down the road. I think Moyer and Pedro can take turns for the '5th' turn. Gives them each extra rest, plus can be used as a 'long man' out of the pen in between. Things get even dicier when Romero and Durbin are ready to rejoin....and then Myers. xrotatehx

[GannonFan]

Yeah, you're never wrong. xrolleyesx :p

Then we're both in agreement!!!! xlolxxlolxxnodxxthumbsupx

[blukeys]

Phils win. Lee gets his first win in the city of the Brotherly Fightin's. Lidge was lights out.

[Ivytalk]

Phils win. Lee gets his first win in the city of the Brotherly Fightin's. Lidge was lights out.

LEE IS DA BOMB!!!xnodxxthumbsupxxbowx

[GannonFan]

Yup, nice win.

On another note, I'll be bummed if they switch up the rotation - right now Lee's tunr would come up on Aug 18 when they play the Diamondbacks at home - I just happen to have bought tickets for that game a couple of months ago and would love to luck out and see him pitch.

[foghorn]

There's actually talk on the Philly sports talk station about the Phils going to a 6 man rotation. To me that would be idiotic. Why in the world would the Phils want to limit Lee to once every six games? I hope that's just a rumor. xconfusedx

[93henfan]

There's actually talk on the Philly sports talk station about the Phils going to a 6 man rotation. To me that would be idiotic. Why in the world would the Phils want to limit Lee to once every six games? I hope that's just a rumor. xconfusedx

Not to mention Hamels has shown that he is erratic when he goes longer than the normal four days between starts. It's got to be a five man rotation and Moyer (or Pedro if he's a flop) have to be the odd man out.

[93henfan]

Ruben says Happ stays: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4381477

xthumbsupx

[93henfan]

Phils win. Lee gets his first win in the city of the Brotherly Fightin's. Lidge was lights out.

Didn't get to see or hear the game as I was inside the beltway today, but WOW: 9 Ks and 1 BB for Lee. Homeslice rocks!

[blukeys]

Didn't get to see or hear the game as I was inside the beltway today, but WOW: 9 Ks and 1 BB for Lee. Homeslice rocks!

The guy just throws strikes. With a good defense and the Phils have one you are going to get numbers like this.

[ngineer]

Tough loss for Blanton tonight with no run support. With Francisco's great throw in the 7th to cut down a potential fourth run, and then following that with a 2-run homer in the next half inning, it seemed to Momentum Gods were with us..not to be. RISPs stranded again....Get 'em tomorrow.

[93henfan]

Tough loss for Blanton tonight with no run support. With Francisco's great throw in the 7th to cut down a potential fourth run, and then following that with a 2-run homer in the next half inning, it seemed to Momentum Gods were with us..not to be. RISPs stranded again....Get 'em tomorrow.

Stroke of genius by Ruben getting Francisco added to the deal.

[Ivytalk]

Blanton seems to be the tough-luck guy this year. Moyer would be 2-15 without his run support.xcoolx

[ngineer]

The offensive funk continues...2/17 with RISP tonight.xsmhx

[93henfan]

Lost 8 of 11. Victorino gets tossed. Manuel finally goes off on the team.

Hopefully this was the wake up call for the rest of the season.

Thank God we're not in the AL East. We've basically matched the Red Sox and they're just about being written off while we still have a somewhat comfortable 4-game lead.

[GannonFan]

On the bright side, we're back on the road for 13 of 17 games and this team is far better on the road than at home. Plus figure Lee and Happ will pitch a game each in the Cubs series coming up (and maybe Pedro will pitch as well) so that bodes well. And eventually this lineup is going to start hitting again - just too good of a lineup not to.

[bluehenbillk]

Pdo lined up for Wednesday, Moyer to the pen. Happ, Pedro & Lee vs the Cubbies.

[93henfan]

Marlins win again tonight to move to 3.5 games back. The Phils need to take at least two of three at Wrigley and start crushing the will of the fins to continue making a run.

[ngineer]

Big week for the Phils. They can reassert themselves and reopen the gap or continue to sleepwalk into a three-way race..

[89Hen]

Pdo lined up for Wednesday
ESPN game to boot. xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Big week for the Phils. They can reassert themselves and reopen the gap or continue to sleepwalk into a three-way race..

The Phils lack a killer instinct. They should have stepped on the Marlins' bills last weekend and broken them. And the Braves are right in the thick of it, and they've killed us all year (payback for '08?). We'll end up sweating through another September.xrolleyesx

[GannonFan]

The Phils lack a killer instinct. They should have stepped on the Marlins' bills last weekend and broken them. And the Braves are right in the thick of it, and they've killed us all year (payback for '08?). We'll end up sweating through another September.xrolleyesx

Most teams don't really have killer instincts in late July/early August. Still tons of games to play. Even if they had taken the series against the Marlins nothing would've been over. Just have to stick with it and hope the hitting returns - the starting pitching outside of Hamels looks better and the bullpen is getting healthy so those are all good signs. Gotta score some runs, though.

[93henfan]

the starting pitching outside of Hamels looks better

NBC10 ran an interesting stat on SportsFinal showing Jamie Moyers' vs Cole Hamels' stats since mid-May. Moyer had more wins and a lower ERA.

[93henfan]

Jamie Moyer spouted off a bit to the beat writers today:

http://blogs.delawareonline.com/philledin/2009/08/11/aug-11-moyer-speaks/

[93henfan]

Brad Lidge. xnonono2x

Takes a game the Phils absolutely stole and hands it right back. He might make it to double-digit blown saves before the year is over. ERA is approaching 8.

[GannonFan]

Brad Lidge. xnonono2x

Takes a game the Phils absolutely stole and hands it right back. He might make it to double-digit blown saves before the year is over. ERA is approaching 8.

Well, Francisco didn't help him on that play - he should've been able to make a good play at home on that runner who scored - it was like watching Burrell run the bases he was so slow.

On the bright side, the Phils 3rd hit of the evening as a solo shot by Francisco in the top of the 12th so if they can hold it this time then they will have stolen the game. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

And the Phils hold on, win in 12 innings, only getting 3 hits all game, but 4 runs nonetheless. A W is a W. xthumbsupx

[93henfan]

Thievery complete. Four runs on three hits for the win. Francisco with the gamewinner, and Ayre and Durbin with good, strong extra-inning relief.

[93henfan]

A W is a W. xthumbsupx

Especially when the Marlins just won in extra innings five minutes before the Phils did. Keeping up with the Joneses.

[GannonFan]

Especially when the Marlins just won in extra innings five minutes before the Phils did. Keeping up with the Joneses.

Still up 3.5 games, and up 5 games in the loss column. I'm not really hitting the panic button yet.

[93henfan]

Have we mentioned that Ruben Amaro Jr. is a genius? xlolx

Three wins already between Lee and Francisco, and I may even be forgetting another game or two where Francisco contributed heavily to the win.

[93henfan]

Still up 3.5 games, and up 5 games in the loss column. I'm not really hitting the panic button yet.

No reason to hit a panic button in this division. Thank God we're in it.

[GannonFan]

Have we mentioned that Ruben Amaro Jr. is a genius? xlolx

Three wins already between Lee and Francisco, and I may even be forgetting another game or two where Francisco contributed heavily to the win.

Yeah, absolute steal of a trade with the Indians - get a Cy Young award winner and a professional right handed bat, and gave away no one to get them. In retrospect, a far better trade than what would've been the Toronto trade.


No reason to hit a panic button in this division. Thank God we're in it.

It's not like there are tons of great divisions out there - again, we could be in either Central and I wouldn't be panicking. Really, only the AL East is truly stacked.

[MR. CHICKEN]

YEAH YEAH YEAH......BUT DUH FISH & TOMAHAWKS......ARE JES' OVERAH OURAH SHOULDER..xeekx..AWK!

[GannonFan]

YEAH YEAH YEAH......BUT DUH FISH & TOMAHAWKS......ARE JES' OVERAH OURAH SHOULDER..xeekx..AWK!

We weren't going to win this division by 20 games anyway. Florida and/or Atlanta were always going to be good enough for 85 wins or more. This thing was never going to be clinched until 2 weeks until the end of the season at the earliest, and more likely sometime during that last home stand.

[Ivytalk]

Still up 3.5 games, and up 5 games in the loss column. I'm not really hitting the panic button yet.

Big 3-game set with Atlanta coming up. That could be a big momentum-shifter either way.

[UNHWildCats]

Pedro makes two outs in 8-run 4th inning for Phillies. 12-1 over Cubbies.

[93henfan]

14312

[93henfan]

So 2-0 so far in this series and Cliff Lee going tomorrow afternoon. Oh, and the Marlins are getting rocked. Tasty!

Good night boys. I'm going to bed early tonight. :)

[GannonFan]

You throw crappy pitching at the Phils, and they'll destroy it. Hence the offense tonight.

Let's hope Lee continues throwing gems tomorrow and they can sweep their way into Atlanta.

[89Hen]

Let's hope Lee continues throwing gems tomorrow and they can sweep their way into Atlanta.
Uhhh, yeah.

8.0 IP, 6 hits, 1 run, 8K's, 3 BB's Phils cruise 6-1.

In three starts...

24.0 IP, 16 hits, 3 runs, 23 K's, 6 BB's, 1.13 ERA xbowx

[GannonFan]

Uhhh, yeah.

8.0 IP, 6 hits, 1 run, 8K's, 3 BB's Phils cruise 6-1.

In three starts...

24.0 IP, 16 hits, 3 runs, 23 K's, 6 BB's, 1.13 ERA xbowx

Yup, and the beat goes on. A nice and tidy sweep of the Cubbies is a nice way to recover from that embarassment against the Marlins. This now pushes the Braves and Marlins to 5 games back (6 games back in the loss column). Hopefully the series in Atlanta coming up goes better than the last time we were down there.

Shame we can't play the NL Central all the time - we could have clinched this thing by now if we could! xlolx

[Ivytalk]

I guess we'll have Blanton, Hamels and Happ starting in Atlanta. Gotta score some runs for Blanton. Can't get swept down there by the Tomahawks.

[93henfan]

Shame we can't play the NL Central all the time - we could have clinched this thing by now if we could! xlolx

Nah, we're better off right where we are. The teams we play in the East are .467, while the Central is .481. As bad as the Central stinks, the teams we play in the East stink more. God bless the Washington Nationals. ;)

[blukeys]

Roy Who??????????xrolleyesxxsmiley_wixxrolleyesxxsmile y_wixxrolleyesxxsmiley_wix

[93henfan]

Roy Who??????????xrolleyesxxsmiley_wixxrolleyesxxsmile y_wixxrolleyesxxsmiley_wix

It's a jolly hall-a-day with Cliff Lee!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgW1WbXEeHs

[93henfan]

Just an all-around great effort in a big game to start the series with the Braves.

Utley turns on a fastball for an absolute laser line drive 2-run shot to right. Howard with the clutch go-ahead solo homer in the top of the 9th. Blanton with a strong seven innings of work. Victorino with a highlight reel catch falling against the fence in center to prevent the Braves from taking the lead. Madson with a flawless 8th. Lidge gets hit hard and allows two baserunners, but gets the save.

Phils win 3-2. Four in a row. xthumbsupx

[blukeys]

Gotta love Victorino. He can turn the wrong way almost fall down and still run down the ball.

[ngineer]

Just an all-around great effort in a big game to start the series with the Braves.

Utley turns on a fastball for an absolute laser line drive 2-run shot to right. Howard with the clutch go-ahead solo homer in the top of the 9th. Blanton with a strong seven innings of work. Victorino with a highlight reel catch falling against the fence in center to prevent the Braves from taking the lead. Madson with a flawless 8th. Lidge gets hit hard and allows two baserunners, but gets the save.

Phils win 3-2. Four in a row. xthumbsupx

I was wondering if Cholley would stay with Madson in the 9th, as he only threw 6 pitches in the 8th. But, knowing Cholley, he wouldn't want to play onto Lidge's psyche by doing that. Can't hurt our players feelings you know.xrolleyesx

[foghorn]

xnodx
I was wondering if Cholley would stay with Madson in the 9th, as he only threw 6 pitches in the 8th. But, knowing Cholley, he wouldn't want to play onto Lidge's psyche by doing that. Can't hurt our players feelings you know.xrolleyesx
Don't think that Charley made the move so as not to hurt Brad's feelings, but rather to show that he hasn't (as yet) lost confidence in him. I think that Lidge is fine physically, but might have some psyche issues. I think that ol' uncle Cholly knows how to handle it.xnodx

[Ivytalk]

It would be nice to get a strong outing out of Hamels today. He's been very inconsistent all year. What's happened to his command? Is his hot wife wearing him out?xconfusedx

[93henfan]

It would be nice to get a strong outing out of Hamels today. He's been very inconsistent all year. What's happened to his command? Is his hot wife wearing him out?xconfusedx

Hamels is no better than the fourth best starter on paper right now. Let's hope he can cure whatever has ailed him all year before the playoffs start. He has another nine starts to get it right and show he's still one of the top three on the staff. I know Chollie wouldn't think of not starting him in the playoffs, but I really wish Cole would start being a dominant pitcher again. The book of excuses about the short offseason and the bad-luck injuries in April/May don't really hold any water now that it's mid-August. It's time to produce.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I have officially thrown in the towel on Brad Lidge - time to put someone else out there in the 9th. xmadx

[foghorn]

I have officially thrown in the towel on Brad Lidge - time to put someone else out there in the 9th. xmadx
Lidge has lost his nerve. Yesterday he almost threw the ball away to first. Today, another flub. He needs to get an appointment with a shrink. xconfusedx

[93henfan]

Ryan Madson = Bridge to Blown Save

Madson should be closing tomorrow if the opportunity presents itself. Lidge needs to be sent for a "precautionary" MRI and then be placed on the DL to save some face.

[ngineer]

I fully agree with the three prior posts. I was spitting tacks in the 9th so bad my wife came running down stairs thinking I hurt myself (i.e the usual stubbed toe, hammer to the thumb, etc, that leads to the 'usual epithets'). No question he's a head case, now, after today's meltdown. At the moment, the best replacement would be Madson. Maybe his brief flirtation with closing back in May helped him see what it takes, as he certainly had his troubles, too, in that position.

[GannonFan]

Hamels pitched fine today - basically just gave up that one HR and that was it.

As for Lidge, eh, he looked all frantic fielding that bunt that led to the error, but it's not like he pitched that badly. Blown save, yes, but if Utley makes that play on the first batter rather than just doing an "ole" then the whole inning looks different. No one hit the ball hard against Lidge and every ball should've been an out (the last one with the infield playing at normal position).

Can't put Madson in as a closer - he self-destructed when the Phils tried that earlier this year and is only now getting his confidence back.

[ngineer]

Hamels pitched fine today - basically just gave up that one HR and that was it.

As for Lidge, eh, he looked all frantic fielding that bunt that led to the error, but it's not like he pitched that badly. Blown save, yes, but if Utley makes that play on the first batter rather than just doing an "ole" then the whole inning looks different. No one hit the ball hard against Lidge and every ball should've been an out (the last one with the infield playing at normal position).

Can't put Madson in as a closer - he self-destructed when the Phils tried that earlier this year and is only now getting his confidence back.

I went back and looked at the tape, and yes, I have to agree that normally, Utley, should make that play and Lidge wasn't really 'tagged'. But there is no sense of confidence in me when he comes in anymore. His location is still off. He, himself, says he feels better than at anytime in the last two years. So it is either psychololgical or mechanical or both. If he doesn't get it worked out by September, maybe Myers gets a shot.

[93henfan]

I went back and looked at the tape, and yes, I have to agree that normally, Utley, should make that play and Lidge wasn't really 'tagged'. But there is no sense of confidence in me when he comes in anymore. His location is still off. He, himself, says he feels better than at anytime in the last two years. So it is either psychololgical or mechanical or both. If he doesn't get it worked out by September, maybe Myers gets a shot.

Agree, and I also hear GF's point about Madson. Why ruin his psyche when he's been a great 8th inning reliever? I forgot about the whole failed Madson-as-closer experiment.

I guess we'll have to give Lidge another month, then if he doesn't get his poop straight then give Myers a few chances. I definitely wouldn't want the two-blown-saves-in-a-week Brad Lidge on the mound in October.

[LacesOut]

Soooooooooooooooooo...............what exactly happened to Myers' eye?? Conflicting reports out there, TMZ wants to know!! LOL

[MR. CHICKEN]

RAIN...RAIN...GO AWAY........xmadx........AWK!

[93henfan]

Soooooooooooooooooo...............what exactly happened to Myers' eye?? Conflicting reports out there, TMZ wants to know!! LOL

The official story: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20090816_Phillies_Notes__Myers__eye_injury_has_2_e xplanations.html


Kim Myers called it a "freak accident," and she and Brett Myers insisted that was the entire story. They conceded that, because of Brett Myers' 2006 arrest on charges of assaulting Kim in Boston (charges were later dropped), the current situation would raise questions.

"No, I did not hit him with a frying pan," Kim Myers said, with a laugh, while teasing her husband for being a "klutz."

The Inquirer contacted the Jacksonville Sheriff's Department to inquire if any incidents involving Myers had been reported this weekend, but no message was returned.

[blukeys]

Best 3 starters, Lee, Happ, Blanton. Cole time to get it together.

[93henfan]

Great effort by Happ tonight. Again. 7.2 IP, giving up 3 hits and just the one HR to Diaz. Madson closes out the 8th. Chollie trots out Eyre to face lefties in the bottom of the 9th. He gets the first two guys out and up comes a righty. Chollie walks toward the steps and chomps furiously on his gum and then turns around and walks away to leave Eyre to face the righty, who he walks. With the tying run on deck, Chollie goes to Lidge for the save and he gets it. Baby steps for Lidge's confidence.

Howard continues his hot streak with all four RBI in the game on shots to dead center and right.

Phils win 4-1, take the series, go 5-1 on the road trip, and come out of the night 4.5 games up on the Marlins, gaining half a game since the dreadful homestand last week. The Marlins are still playing good ball, so the success on this road trip was crucial.

Marlins now go on their own road trip to Houston and Atlanta while the Phils host a beleaguered Arizona squad and then visit the hapless Mutts for four games.

This is the week the Phils can drive some nails in the coffin. Time to show some killer instinct. xthumbsupx

[bluehenbillk]

Unless both the Marlins & Braves just play poorly I don't know if the World Champs will ever just open up a double-digit lead. On the other hand, I don't see the race ever getting really close either.

Happ pitched great again last night, actually all 3 starters, Blanton, Cole & Happ, pitched well in the ATL series. The rest of August isn't very hard of a schedule, would like to play 9-4 or better in the remaining 13 games.

[GannonFan]

Agreed, the Marlins and Braves aren't terrible, so they aren't going to all of a sudden go away. But they aren't that great that they'll make a sudden drive to make up a lot of games. And with the games in hand, the Phils are 6 up in the loss column to the Fish and 7 to the Braves - that's a lot of games to make up and the Phillies schedule the rest of the way is not terribly difficult. Both the Braves and Marlins have some tough road games left and I don't think anyone has significantly more games against the Nats than anyone else so no help there. Plus the Braves and Marlins still have 10 games against each other, so it's likely both will beat each other up a little bit.

I tell you, though, I wouldn't mind one of them making a run for the wild card - wouldn't mind getting to play someone like the Cards in the first round rather than the Giants. Of course, I'm fine with the Rockies getting there too.

[LacesOut]

Not to change the subject, and I only ask because I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I checked the standings today, and DAMN, the Yankees! Where did they come from? I assumed the Red Sox owned the AL East.

I know they have Jeter, and Posada (I think they do, and the only reason I know him is because I have a buddy that looks EXACTLY like him, NO LIE, EXACTLY, it's really frickin' scary how similar they look).

[bluehenbillk]

Pedro's 1st game at home tonight, it'll be interesting to hear crowd reaction.

[Ivytalk]

Pedro's 1st game at home tonight, it'll be interesting to hear crowd reaction.

It will be even more interesting if Pedro gets a home start against the Mutts.xnodx

[GannonFan]

Pedro's 1st game at home tonight, it'll be interesting to hear crowd reaction.

As you know, I'm at the game tonight, so I'll let you know. I won't be going crazy rooting for him, but I'm getting older and more cynical every day so you can't judge by me. xthumbsupx