Help settle a playoff attendance reporting question...

[UNI MadCat]

Ok, I'm sure this is discussed every year but I'd like to get to the bottom of it...

Do host institutions really under-report playoff attendance? If so, can anyone back this up with proof besides just saying, 'well, in the games I've been to I KNOW there were more than what was announced.'

For years, I've heard this rumor but as of yet, never heard anyone that could definitively tell me that, 'yes, this is true' or 'no, that is not the case'.

You'd think I would have a clue given that I worked in the AD when I was in school but, unfortunately, we never made the playoffs during my 4 years at UNI so it wasn't something that ever came up.

[AppGuy04]

Why would they under report their attendance?

It is what it is

[Mr. C]

Why would they under report their attendance?

It is what it is
Maybe so they could keep more of the money from playoff receipts? This has been a dirty little secret talked about in I-AA circles for years. Just like some teams pad attendance figures for regular season games. I've been at plenty of games where the announced attendance was far below the butts in the seats, judging by how well filled up various stadiums were, compared to announced figures at other games I had attended in the same stadiums.

[selurfesoy]

I'm not sure why attendance would be under reported but that had to be the case yesterday in Boone. Even Coach Moore said it looked like the home side was full. IMHO, it looked more like 11,000 than 6,300. Would like to have had a lot more show up. Hopefully this weekend with the students back we'll get back in the 20,000 range.

[AppGuy04]

Either way, who the hell can really tell how many people are really at the game. Unless its a big difference, its just not possible

[TexasTerror]

Attendance is never truly reported til NCAA audit is completed as far as I know...

"Ticket Notes:
Paid attendance for the Bobcat's game against Georgia Southern was estimated at 10,000. The NCAA-audited, official paid attendance figure will be released at a later date."

[Umass74]

Not a great day for I-AA playoff attendance.

Montana-Cal Poly 16,162
Texas State-GSU 9,660
UNH-Colgate 7,806
NI-EWU 7,746
Appy-Lafayette 6,312
Hampton-Richmond 5,343
SIU-EIU (estimated 5,000-- no official total on either school's "official" game notes ) :rolleyes:
Furman-Nicholls State 4,125

[AppGuy04]

Not a great day for I-AA playoff attendance.

Montana-Cal Poly 16,162
Texas State-GSU 9,660
UNH-Colgate 7,806
NI-EWU 7,746
Appy-Lafayette 6,312
Hampton-Richmond 5,343
SIU-EIU (estimated 5,000-- no official total on either school's "official" game notes ) :rolleyes:
Furman-Nicholls State 4,125

this weekend Boone will be rocking!!!

[Cocky]

Why do they play during Thanksgiving weekend? It is almost impossible to get a plane ticket anywhere.

[ngineer]

I'm not sure why attendance would be under reported but that had to be the case yesterday in Boone. Even Coach Moore said it looked like the home side was full. IMHO, it looked more like 11,000 than 6,300. Would like to have had a lot more show up. Hopefully this weekend with the students back we'll get back in the 20,000 range.

Very much agreed. I watched the entire game. the camera never panned the visitor's side, so I don't know how large or what percentage of the grandstands on that side of the field was filled, but the home side was about 70% filled. It looked to me that the home side seats about 12,000 or more, plus we know there were people on the other side. I think even one of the announcers estimated about 11-12,000 in attendance.
Same thing occured last year between JMU and Lehigh. Announced attendance was like 6500 when there was probably 9-10,000 in attendance. I think it has something to do with the amount of money the host school has to 'return' to the NCAA--maybe student i.d. cards don't get included?

[tralfangar]

"I think it has something to do with the amount of money the host school has to 'return' to the NCAA--maybe student i.d. cards don't get included?"

We paid $5 for our student tickets ... I would think they would include that in the total?

[Appstate03]

For those $5 student tickets, did they swipe your cards or just check them? Cause I still have my student ID and I would like to save $15.

[Husky Alum]

I was told that when NU hosted in 2002 that there's a minimum "per ticket" price that a school must pay to the NCAA for each ticket sold, and if a school allows students in at a discounted rate (i.e. the $5 someone mentioned in an earlier post), the school must reimburse the NCAA for any difference (i.e. when NU hosted the tickets were $10 or $15 for students), between any freebies/discounts and actual tickets sold.

So, there's a bogey to underestimate attendance for a host school, if you don't report swpied ID cards as tickets sold, you keep whatever you charge the students and don't have to remit anything to the NCAA.

To be honest, it's not that difficult for the NCAA to "prove" under-reporting if they wanted to spend the money (I'm a forensic accountant, and it's not hard to do if the NCAA wanted to) to investigate. I don't put much faith in the NCAA "auditors" after reading about how they do their investigations.

[AppState09]

they looked at the ticket and scanned the student ID

[Appstate03]

they looked at the ticket and scanned the student ID

That sucks. Oh well

[ASU Kep]

I went to the visitors side and they didnt scan mine.

[AppGuy04]

Why do they play during Thanksgiving weekend? It is almost impossible to get a plane ticket anywhere.

if they moved it back, they would be playing too close to christmas and students would be gone home, plus, too close to exams

[HunterMurrellLynchWiggins]

I got in on the West Side after waiting in the terribly slow moving line for about 30-45 minutes.......the guy hardly looked at my student i.d. he didnt scan it or anything.

[ASU Kep]

I doubt we were counted in the attendance figures...

[Retro]

Every team underestimates, PERIOD! Some are more honest than others on it though.. I frankly would like to see them require actual turnstile or ticket counts, instead of just estimated the crowd by visual count.

For the betterment of I-AA we need as high reported attendance as possible because i believe if hurts the selling of games to TV outlets the overall promotion of the game itself. Sure it cost's the school a little more money, but it's no more good for the game than a I-A school fudging attendance numbers to meet the 15,000 requirement formally required for those teams..

[ASU Kep]

Every team underestimates, PERIOD! Some are more honest than others on it though.. I frankly would like to see them require actual turnstile or ticket counts, instead of just estimated the crowd by visual count.

For the betterment of I-AA we need as high reported attendance as possible because i believe if hurts the selling of games to TV outlets the overall promotion of the game itself. Sure it cost's the school a little more money, but it's no more good for the game than a I-A school fudging attendance numbers to meet the 15,000 requirement formally required for those teams..

I agree. I think it's embarassing to have a 6,000 attendance reported. It's a slap in the face to the type of football being played as well as the fans who drove/flew hours to make it. If it cost ASU a few hundred or thousand bucks, why not just report the real thing? I know for a f--king fact there was more than 6,300 people there, fortunately the ASU players I think know it too. We were there.

[UNI MadCat]

Do host institutions really under-report playoff attendance? If so, can anyone back this up with proof besides just saying, 'well, in the games I've been to I KNOW there were more than what was announced.'

I'll just repeat that. I know we all "KNOW" there was more and I appreciate the passion of those that KNOW... but I was hoping for some proof. Isn't there an insider here or a friend of an insider that can say, "hey, I've seen it done and, in fact, we've under-reported by about 3,000 before"?

[SoCon48]

Maybe so they could keep more of the money from playoff receipts? This has been a dirty little secret talked about in I-AA circles for years. Just like some teams pad attendance figures for regular season games. I've been at plenty of games where the announced attendance was far below the butts in the seats, judging by how well filled up various stadiums were, compared to announced figures at other games I had attended in the same stadiums.
In NC, people go at public institutions go to jail for that. Who the hell wants to go to jail just so the school can keep some chump change?

[SoCon48]

this weekend Boone will be rocking!!!

1st round is usually 60% or so of average. So all in all, a pretty good opening round.

[SoCon48]

I agree. I think it's embarassing to have a 6,000 attendance reported. It's a slap in the face to the type of football being played as well as the fans who drove/flew hours to make it. If it cost ASU a few hundred or thousand bucks, why not just report the real thing? I know for a f--king fact there was more than 6,300 people there, fortunately the ASU players I think know it too. We were there.

There was well over 6,000 on the home side alone. I think the key is the way the NCAA counts student tickets. They only count a certain fraction, I recall.
Let's put it this way. No way in hell, ASU could have got 10,000 more in the seats.

[SoCon48]

"I think it has something to do with the amount of money the host school has to 'return' to the NCAA--maybe student i.d. cards don't get included?"

We paid $5 for our student tickets ... I would think they would include that in the total?

I think students count a fraction.

[SoCon48]

Every team underestimates, PERIOD! Some are more honest than others on it though.. I frankly would like to see them require actual turnstile or ticket counts, instead of just estimated the crowd by visual count.

For the betterment of I-AA we need as high reported attendance as possible because i believe if hurts the selling of games to TV outlets the overall promotion of the game itself. Sure it cost's the school a little more money, but it's no more good for the game than a I-A school fudging attendance numbers to meet the 15,000 requirement formally required for those teams..

Auditors count money not tickets. In NC schools you go to jail for under reporting the $$. I've seen guys willing to skim for their own pockets and risk jail, but haven't found one yet who would for the employer.

[SoCon48]

Every team underestimates, PERIOD! Some are more honest than others on it though.. I frankly would like to see them require actual turnstile or ticket counts, instead of just estimated the crowd by visual count.

For the betterment of I-AA we need as high reported attendance as possible because i believe if hurts the selling of games to TV outlets the overall promotion of the game itself. Sure it cost's the school a little more money, but it's no more good for the game than a I-A school fudging attendance numbers to meet the 15,000 requirement formally required for those teams..

Not every school. Period.