How does it feel to have your program cut?

[DetroitFlyer]

http://www.thed3experience.com/Blog/wordpress/2009/03/my-life-as-a-d3-player-the-end-of-colorado-college-football/



"This is, without a doubt, something I never thought I’d be writing. In an attempt to collect my thoughts on the subject, I’ll recount yesterday’s events from my perspective. It’s definitely going to be a long post, but hopefully it will be enlightening both to myself and those who read it."

Well written and heartfelt. Division III program, but you could certainly plug any program that has been cut into this players thoughts.... I sure wish the folks at Saint Peters or Iona could have read this before they decided to drop their programs....

[Franks Tanks]

http://www.thed3experience.com/Blog/wordpress/2009/03/my-life-as-a-d3-player-the-end-of-colorado-college-football/



"This is, without a doubt, something I never thought I’d be writing. In an attempt to collect my thoughts on the subject, I’ll recount yesterday’s events from my perspective. It’s definitely going to be a long post, but hopefully it will be enlightening both to myself and those who read it."

Well written and heartfelt. Division III program, but you could certainly plug any program that has been cut into this players thoughts.... I sure wish the folks at Saint Peters or Iona could have read this before they decided to drop their programs....


Sucks for the kids at Colorado College-- it appears the lack of D-III schools in their area was a huge downfall.

[andy7171]

Sad. Towson tried to drop the program when I was a RS Freshman. Those days sucked pretty bad. They kept the program but decided a couple years later to drop scholarships.
I feel for the kid.

DF not sure this story would have changed St.Peters or Iona AD minds though.

I also wonder what makes D3 football the "purest form" of college football? Small, short, and slow is the pure form?

[MplsBison]

Maybe on the east coast...but the MIAC and WIAC schools out here have some pretty good players that drop down from higher division schools.

[Franks Tanks]

Maybe on the east coast...but the MIAC and WIAC schools out here have some pretty good players that drop down from higher division schools.

There are a lot more D-III schools out East, PA has 15-20 by itself, so the talent is more dispersed and some really bad kids make teams.

[andy7171]

Maybe on the east coast...but the MIAC and WIAC schools out here have some pretty good players that drop down from higher division schools.
Maybe so. But I've watched the D3 Championship.


There are a lot more D-III schools out East, PA has 15-20 by itself, so the talent is more dispersed and some really bad kids make teams.
It's basically high school sports extended.

[Big Al]

Maybe on the east coast...but the MIAC and WIAC schools out here have some pretty good players that drop down from higher division schools.

Between the MIAC, WIAC and IIAC, the midwest is pretty much the home of great DIII football. Fred Jackson (Buffalo Bills) played at Coe College in Cedar Rapids.

[MplsBison]

That's right, I forgot about Luther and Wartburg.


There are some pretty good DIII sports in general out here in the upper midwest ... for whatever that's worth.

[andy7171]

My senior season we scrimmaged Salisbury State on Marylands Eastern Shore. They are D.3. I feel bad for what we did to them that morning still to this day. It was hotter than he11 out there at 10am when we played. We scored 8 times in our first 10 plays (it was a controlled scrimmage). It was a complete and thorough a$$kicking up and down the field.

After we got showered up we continued out to Ocean City where the coach released us on the town for 7 hours. With the benefit of hind-sight, that was a poor decision. :D

[Franks Tanks]

My senior season we scrimmaged Salisbury State on Marylands Eastern Shore. They are D.3. I feel bad for what we did to them that morning still to this day. It was hotter than he11 out there at 10am when we played. We scored 8 times in our first 10 plays (it was a controlled scrimmage). It was a complete and thorough a$$kicking up and down the field.

After we got showered up we continued out to Ocean City where the coach released us on the town for 7 hours. With the benefit of hind-sight, that was a poor decision. :D

When I was a freshman the Lafayette "JV" team ( an informal grouping of basically Freshman and a few Sophmores) scrimmaged the Muhelenberg JV team. Muhelenberg has a pretty good team typically and finished this past year 10-0 before losing in the playoffs. Anyway we freakin destroyed them. The D-lineman lined up against me was about 5'11" 240 and I was absolutely destroying him. I am no Orlando Pace or anything but after a dozen plays or so it wasnt even fun anymore. They basically sucked something fierce.

A few D-III teams are very good and some really good D-III players do exist, but most are not very good.

[andy7171]

Hey FT, Towson hired the Lafayette OL coach to be our DC. Matt Hatchmann. Any insight on him as a coach?

[Franks Tanks]

Hey FT, Towson hired the Lafayette OL coach to be our DC. Matt Hatchmann. Any insight on him as a coach?

I saw that. He is pretty abrasive but a good coach. He really has pretty much zero personality on the field and is very no-nonsense-- he can also be a sarcastic ass, pretty much your average coach.

As a coach he has a lot of experience on both sides of the ball. He has coached the O-line, Rb's and linebackers in the past and was also our recruiting coordinator. He learned a lot under coach Loose i'm sure and should do a good job.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There are a lot more D-III schools out East, PA has 15-20 by itself, so the talent is more dispersed and some really bad kids make teams.

Worthy of note in Pennsylvania is that in PA there is a healthy D-II community that offers scholarships - heck, the PSAC has at eight (or nine?) teams in it from the state alone. Start with FBS (Penn State/Pitt/Rutgers), then FCS (not only Delaware, Villanova, Youngstown State, but also Robert Morris, St. Francis, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Penn, Princeton) - and then the many D-II teams. That's a lot of free education in the state. D-III gets the leftovers from there.

[andy7171]

Worthy of note in Pennsylvania is that in PA there is a healthy D-II community that offers scholarships - heck, the PSAC has at eight (or nine?) teams in it from the state alone. Start with FBS (Penn State/Pitt/Rutgers), then FCS (not only Delaware, Villanova, Youngstown State, but also Robert Morris, St. Francis, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Penn, Princeton) - and then the many D-II teams. That's a lot of free education in the state. D-III gets the leftovers from there.

LFN, did you just lay claim to Delaware and YSU as PA schools? xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Worthy of note in Pennsylvania is that in PA there is a healthy D-II community that offers scholarships - heck, the PSAC has at eight (or nine?) teams in it from the state alone. Start with FBS (Penn State/Pitt/Rutgers), then FCS (not only Delaware, Villanova, Youngstown State, but also Robert Morris, St. Francis, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Penn, Princeton) - and then the many D-II teams. That's a lot of free education in the state. D-III gets the leftovers from there.

The PSAC has 16 FB playing schools. It is all the PA State schools except Mansfield who dropped their program. They recently added Mercyhurst, Gannon, and CW Post to the PSAC and Seton Hill is a new D-II program that plays in the WVIAC. Not all PSAC schools gives scholly's but most do so yes there are a lot of school vying for that second tier FB recruit in PA.

[andy7171]

I hate IUP and their GD'ed band.

[Big Al]

A few D-III teams are very good and some really good D-III players do exist, but most are not very good.

Yeah, there's no question the talent level isn't up to D-I or D-II, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve respect and credit.

I'm sure those guys you played knew you were going to kill them but they went out and played anyways. They play for no schollies, almost no respect and knowing college ball will be the last football they ever play. It really is sport in it's truest sense, even if it isn't the most technically proficient.

Also, I bet Lafayette would kill to get the sort of support the D-III St. John's Johnnies get. They averaged over 7,000/game last year at what some writers have suggested is the greatest college ball atmosphere in the nation. Pretty cool, if you ask me.

[Franks Tanks]

I hate IUP and their GD'ed band.

IUP is freakin annoying

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN, did you just lay claim to Delaware and YSU as PA schools? xlolx

They recruit PA pretty hard - not to mention UNH, Maine, and yes, Towson, too. By that definition I guess put Ohio State, Boston College, Temple... Then of course add Army and Navy for high-academic recruits who are interested in service life, too.

Point being that PA recruits are picked pretty clean. And, I also forgot Duquesne.

[Franks Tanks]

Yeah, there's no question the talent level isn't up to D-I or D-II, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve respect and credit.

I'm sure those guys you played knew you were going to kill them but they went out and played anyways. They play for no schollies, almost no respect and knowing college ball will be the last football they ever play. It really is sport in it's truest sense, even if it isn't the most technically proficient.

Also, I bet Lafayette would kill to get the sort of support the D-III St. John's Johnnies get. They averaged over 7,000/game last year at what some writers have suggested is the greatest college ball atmosphere in the nation. Pretty cool, if you ask me.


Lafayette averaged 9,700 fans per home game last season.

Also I do respect D-III players and I know a lot of very good athletes who played D-III sports. However, overall many D-III programs are more akin to high school than college. That is fine and nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is. The patriot League isnt the big ten and I would never entertain the notion that it is. I also enjoy the D-III game and have attended games before.

[MplsBison]

Saint John's, in particular, is who I had in mind. Obviously they're former DIII national champions.

But they get some pretty decent players from MN.

[Big Al]

Lafayette averaged 9,700 fans per home game last season.

My bad, I guess I assumed your attendance numbers were more like the PL average, not at at the top like you are.


Also I do respect D-III players and I know a lot of very good athletes who played D-III sports. However, overall many D-III programs are more akin to high school than college. That is fine and nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is. The patriot League isnt the big ten and I would never entertain the notion that it is. I also enjoy the D-III game and have attended games before.

I hear you -- I guess I was interpreting your earlier comments as being along the lines of "they aren't good, so why bother".

[andy7171]

My bad, I guess I assumed your attendance numbers were more like the PL average, not at at the top like you are.



I hear you -- I guess I was interpreting your earlier comments as being along the lines of "they aren't good, so why bother".

I was the one who brought it up in the first place asking why D.3 football was the "purest form" of college football. Slow, short and small, while kinda disrespectful, fairly accurate. Of course there are good teams. Of course there are quality dedicated athletes. But the exception doesn't prove the rule.
My wife played soccer at D.3 Catholic, several of my brothers-in law played football there too. I know up close the dedication level in D.3. Franks Tanks is correct, in my opinion, in saying it's more like high school sports than at the D.I or D.II level.

[Franks Tanks]

My bad, I guess I assumed your attendance numbers were more like the PL average, not at at the top like you are.



I hear you -- I guess I was interpreting your earlier comments as being along the lines of "they aren't good, so why bother".

No problem and I am agreeing with you really. Lafayette had a surge in attendance lately with an improved team, new stadium and some better marketing.

A few years ago we averaged 5-7k like most of the PL.

[nmatsen]

Iowa has a very strong D-III tradition, with the likes of Central, Simpson, Wartburg, Drake, Buena Vista, Loras, Dubuque, Coe, etc...

[DFW HOYA]

Mansfield did not drop football, just dropped weight...

http://www.gomounties.com/Sprint_Football/sprinthomepage.html

[Franks Tanks]

Mansfield did not drop football, just dropped weight...

http://www.gomounties.com/Sprint_Football/sprinthomepage.html

Well technically true, but Sprint Football isnt a NCAA sponsored sport and its really not the same as having a varsity FB program at the D-II or D-III level.

Mansfiled is marketing it as basically the same to unsuspecting fans. They also love the fact that the Sprint FB league includes Army, Navy, Penn, Princeton and Cornell.

[MplsBison]

I was the one who brought it up in the first place asking why D.3 football was the "purest form" of college football. Slow, short and small, while kinda disrespectful, fairly accurate. Of course there are good teams. Of course there are quality dedicated athletes. But the exception doesn't prove the rule.
My wife played soccer at D.3 Catholic, several of my brothers-in law played football there too. I know up close the dedication level in D.3. Franks Tanks is correct, in my opinion, in saying it's more like high school sports than at the D.I or D.II level.

I think they're referring to playing without a scholarship...something that PFL, PL and IL players already do.

[andy7171]

I think they're referring to playing without a scholarship...something that PFL, PL and IL players already do.

Well PFL yes, Its a gray area for PL and IL.

Why do scholarships muddy the purity?

[Cobblestone]

Sad. Towson tried to drop the program when I was a RS Freshman. Those days sucked pretty bad. They kept the program but decided a couple years later to drop scholarships.
I feel for the kid.

DF not sure this story would have changed St.Peters or Iona AD minds though.

I also wonder what makes D3 football the "purest form" of college football? Small, short, and slow is the pure form?


I think what is meant by that is the fact that the game at that level is not as commercialized as it is at the higher levels, in particular I-A (FBS). Also D-III is no scholly and the term student-athlete actually holds some truth to it.

[MplsBison]

Well PFL yes, Its a gray area for PL and IL.

Why do scholarships muddy the purity?

Not elistist enough I guess?

[apaladin]

There are many D-III schools in FCS. :D

[DetroitFlyer]

Well PFL yes, Its a gray area for PL and IL.

Why do scholarships muddy the purity?


Nope, not even close.

According to the NCAA, the PL is an ATHLETIC scholarship conference.

The Ivy League and the PFL are non-ATHLETIC scholarship and offer EXACTLY the same type of aid for STUDENT-athletes. Both conferences can and do offer significant non-athletic aid for STUDENTS that play football.

[MplsBison]

Does Dayton offer a grant in aid based solely on athletic merit? No => DIII

[ValleyChamp]

Why all the D-III bashing? You all sound like FBS people talking down to us.

[ValleyChamp]

Iowa has a very strong D-III tradition, with the likes of Central, Simpson, Wartburg, Drake, Buena Vista, Loras, Dubuque, Coe, etc...

ahh, I see what you did there...xlolxxlolx

[MplsBison]

It's the truth in football...Drake does not give football players a single dollar that isn't available to regular students.


I wonder if that's true of the basketball team? Pathetic.

[ValleyChamp]

It's the truth in football...Drake does not give football players a single dollar that isn't available to regular students.


I wonder if that's true of the basketball team? Pathetic.

Basketball gets schollys.

Why is it pathetic? If they don't want to have that type of program, its their choice.

[MplsBison]

Basketball gets schollys.

Why is it pathetic? If they don't want to have that type of program, its their choice.

It's pathetic that they give grants-in-aid to basketball players based on basketball merit but don't give football players a single dime that isn't already available to any student enrolled.



I would be fine if the NCAA made a rule saying that if you give grants-in-aid for bball, you must the give them for football. At least for DI.

[DetroitFlyer]

It's pathetic that they give grants-in-aid to basketball players based on basketball merit but don't give football players a single dime that isn't already available to any student enrolled.



I would be fine if the NCAA made a rule saying that if you give grants-in-aid for bball, you must the give them for football. At least for DI.

Yep, once again, spoken like a true FBS wannabee....

I sure wish your team would grow a pair, man up, and do what it takes to join the FBS ranks so that you could take your drivel to a nice FBS board somewhere.

[slostang]

I know how the player feels. I was on scholarship at Cal Poly Pomona when they dropped their football program. Talk about a kick to the gut. I was lucky and transfered to Cal Poly SLO.

Cal Poly Pomona was full of talent. Five players on the team that was dropped went on to play multiple years in the NFL. David Grayson transfered to Fresno State and played LB for the Browns. Al Smith transfered to Utah State and became an All-Pro LB for the Houston Oilers. Joe Prokaup punted for the Packers and 49ers. Jon Hall transfered to Hawaii and played TE for Tampa Bay and Detroit. JC Pearson transfered to Fullerton JC, then to the University of Washington and on to a long career as a DB with the Chiefs and Vikings. We had about 14 players transfer to D-I programs. I have always thought how good that team could have become if they would have kept it together.

[MplsBison]

Yep, once again, spoken like a true FBS wannabee....

I sure wish your team would grow a pair, man up, and do what it takes to join the FBS ranks so that you could take your drivel to a nice FBS board somewhere.


Same old red herring.


Why won't you address the arguement?


Is it or is it not hypocritic that Dayton awards grants-in-aid to bball players based on athletic merit but awards only need-based aid to football players?

[ValleyChamp]

Same old red herring.


Why won't you address the arguement?


Is it or is it not hypocritic that Dayton awards grants-in-aid to bball players based on athletic merit but awards only need-based aid to football players?

Again, why does it matter? Its up to the school to prioritize however they want to. If a student doesn't like it, then they don't have to go there.

[oldSLOguy]

[QUOTE=andy7171;1323387]I was the one who brought it up in the first place asking why D.3 football was the "purest form" of college football. Slow, short and small, while kinda disrespectful, fairly accurate.

My wife played soccer at D.3 Catholic, several of my brothers-in law played football there too. [QUOTE]

Trust me, don't let your wife doesn’t see that post. She may be “small, short and slow, but I’ll bet in short order she could turn you into “Big, Quiet, Sleeping with the dog and begging for the mercy rule”. Plus, those daughters look like they could make it hurt when they kick ya in the shin! :D :D

[oldSLOguy]

I was the one who brought it up in the first place asking why D.3 football was the "purest form" of college football. Slow, short and small, while kinda disrespectful, fairly accurate.

My wife played soccer at D.3 Catholic, several of my brothers-in law played football there too.

Trust me, don't let your wife doesn’t see that post. She may be “small, short and slow, but I’ll bet in short order she could turn you into “Big, Quiet, Sleeping with the dog and begging for the mercy rule”. Plus, those daughters look like they could make it hurt when they kick ya in the shin! :D :D

[oldSLOguy]

I know how the player feels. I was on scholarship at Cal Poly Pomona when they dropped their football program. Talk about a kick to the gut. I was lucky and transfered to Cal Poly SLO.

Cal Poly Pomona was full of talent. Five players on the team that was dropped went on to play multiple years in the NFL. David Grayson transfered to Fresno State and played LB for the Browns. Al Smith transfered to Utah State and became an All-Pro LB for the Houston Oilers. Joe Prokaup punted for the Packers and 49ers. Jon Hall transfered to Hawaii and played TE for Tampa Bay and Detroit. JC Pearson transfered to Fullerton JC, then to the University of Washington and on to a long career as a DB with the Chiefs and Vikings. We had about 14 players transfer to D-I programs. I have always thought how good that team could have become if they would have kept it together.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Jim Zorn played at CP Pomoma around that time frame also didn't he?

[slostang]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Jim Zorn played at CP Pomoma around that time frame also didn't he?

He played at Cal Poly in the 70's (72 to 75) not the early 80's.

[Hoyadestroya85]

It's better than when villanova did it through a press release after a board meeting that didn't even have full attendance.. my dad told me that he didn't believe it at first

[andy7171]

Trust me, don't let your wife doesn’t see that post. She may be “small, short and slow, but I’ll bet in short order she could turn you into “Big, Quiet, Sleeping with the dog and begging for the mercy rule”. Plus, those daughters look like they could make it hurt when they kick ya in the shin! :D :D
I was a "D.I elitist" back when we were dating too. She's used to it. xlolx

[Hoyadestroya85]

I was a "D.I elitist" back when we were dating too. She's used to it. xlolx

may your daughters all be DIII athletes haha

[andy7171]

may your daughters all be DIII athletes haha

I'd be perfectly happy. Nothing against D.III athletics on my part, just don't act like they care more for the sport based on a scholarship. To be perfectly honest, I would have played football somewhere if I wasn't recruited to play elsewhere. I was already accepted to Salisbury and Frostburg(D.III) and had D.II partial deals on the table in PA.




...plus they have D.I blood in them! :D