Delaware AD Retiring!!

[bluehenbillk]

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090323/SPORTS/90323009

Edgar Johnson calling it quits. I double-took myself to make sure today wasn't April Fools or Xmas.

[Ivytalk]

Wasn't Johnson an opponent of scheduling Del State in football? He always seemed to have an excuse -- until this year.

[LacesOut]

Finally!

[GannonFan]

Wasn't Johnson an opponent of scheduling Del State in football? He always seemed to have an excuse -- until this year.

I never actually thought he was the guy making the decision per Del St - he just got to be the guy who got pilloried for it - don't underestimate the power of the Trustees at UD.

A good and sad day for UD - Edgar was an extremely helpful and gracious man, a great person to represent the University, but he also goofed up way too many times over the past few years (field fiasco, ticketing at Chatty, misteps in coaching hires, etc). And he was just a nice AD for a smaller operation than what UD has now compared to when he started 25 years ago. He wasn't going to be the AD to really be a part of UD's future, and with a new President at UD his retirement was a foregone conclusion.

[GoBlueHens83]

xhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayxxhurrayx

[CatFan22]

Maybe he can send a hint or something to Fields here at MSU.

[UAalum72]

end of the West Chester series?

[Tribe4SF]

Based on my lone interaction with him (email exchange prior to the W&M/UD quarterfinal in '04), UD will better off without him.

[Husky Alum]

The sound you heard was the rest of the CAA cringing as UD will now be adequately managed.

Since my 8 year old daughter has a better grasp on college athletics than Edgar Johnson, ANYONE UD hires will be an improvement.

[93henfan]

THERE IS A GOD!!!

[mainejeff]

This is bad news for the rest of the CAA. :(

[89Hen]

A good and sad day for UD - Edgar was an extremely helpful and gracious man, a great person to represent the University, but he also goofed up way too many times over the past few years (field fiasco, ticketing at Chatty, misteps in coaching hires, etc). And he was just a nice AD for a smaller operation than what UD has now compared to when he started 25 years ago. He wasn't going to be the AD to really be a part of UD's future, and with a new President at UD his retirement was a foregone conclusion.
I agree. He did do a lot for the program.

[93henfan]

I agree. He did do a lot for the program.

Yeah, but Janet said it best:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QdSskQdcBbw/SMwApV5GKVI/AAAAAAAABro/AkFdFB3mipI/s320/What+Have+You+Done+UK%5B1%5D.jpg

[Husky Alum]

This is bad news for the rest of the CAA. :(

No doubt.

The sleeping giant is about to be awoken.

[Ivytalk]

I hear that Ruth Ann Minner has tossed her hat into the ring...:D

[93henfan]

I hear that Ruth Ann Minner has tossed her hat into the ring...:D

With all due respect, STFU!xlolx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I hear that Ruth Ann Minner has tossed her hat into the ring...:D

xlolxxlolxxlolxxrotatehxxlolxxlolx

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

The sound you heard was the rest of the CAA cringing as UD will now be adequately managed.

Since my 8 year old daughter has a better grasp on college athletics than Edgar Johnson, ANYONE UD hires will be an improvement.

How does cringing sound?

I understand your point ... and agree.

[Blue Hen Nation]

I hear that Ruth Ann Minner has tossed her hat into the ring...:D


Yep, she'll be debuting as our new Troll Mascot. xrotatehxxlolx

[hippy@GSU]

Now, Sam Baker at GSU. It's your turn!!!

[UNI Pike]

I hear that Ruth Ann Minner has tossed her hat into the ring...:D

Maybe for nose-tackle...

[Henny]

It would take a miracle to turn our athletics program around. That being said, how many schools have a president who is a former division I football player?

[89Hen]

It would take a miracle to turn our athletics program around.
Sounds like gohens talk. Other than a bad hire when Brey left and a soccer team that can't compete, what exactly is wrong with the athletics program at UD? Are there things that can be better? Absolutely, but that can be said of any program. There is discussion of a new athletics complex, football attendance has never been better, there are some bright spots for men's bball, can't wait to see DelleDonna play volleyball.... what's the beef? xconfusedx

[GP91HEN]

Ruth Ann Minner -- aka "Gov. Doubtfire"

Well helloooooo..........

[T-Dog]

Okay, can't someone give me a condensed version of "Why Edgar is hated"?

And I took this pic in Chatty in 2007. This was right next to the Pavilion. It gave me the feeling y'all didn't like him.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/tdog231x/App/n29713461_33608115_9424.jpg

[89Hen]

Okay, can't someone give me a condensed version of "Why Edgar is hated"?

And I took this pic in Chatty in 2007. This was right next to the Pavilion. It gave me the feeling y'all didn't like him.
Old stadium. Takes fans for granted. Won't remove West Chester from the schedule. Reluctance to add DelSt to the schedule. Put in an incredibly small order for NC tix in 2007 (2k less than was sold in 2003). Bad hire in men's bball after Mike Brey left. xpeacex

[henfan]

Okay, can't someone give me a condensed version of "Why Edgar is hated"?

He's our Roachel Laney, OK.

[State Line Liquors]

No doubt.

The sleeping giant is about to be awoken.

It is intriguing to think about what UD athletics could have been over the years without having an AD who basically made a career out of living in a bubble. He's been completely out of his league on so many levels for years.

I for one hope that they look for a younger guy (or gal) with lots of energy, connections, creativity in ways to raise revenue and hopefully a pedigree as an assistant AD at a Big East, Big Ten, or SEC program. There's talk of an internal candidate who apparently is a nice guy (Edgar was a nice guy too), but I just wonder how capable someone who's spent a few years working under Edgar could be at elevating the quality of UD athletics.

[Tubby Raymond]

Okay, can't someone give me a condensed version of "Why Edgar is hated"?

And I took this pic in Chatty in 2007. This was right next to the Pavilion. It gave me the feeling y'all didn't like him.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/tdog231x/App/n29713461_33608115_9424.jpg

BTW, that poster was made by a 14 year old fan who made the trip with us from DE. He was psyched that his poster made it on the board here. His understanding of what was holding UD athletics back was fined tuned at a very early and impressionable age. If he can get , why can't others?

[93henfan]

I could be wrong, but that 2003 National Champions banner above looks almost identical to the ones hanging from lightposts around the stadium during the 2004 season. Am I right? xeyebrowx

[Henny]

Sounds like gohens talk. Other than a bad hire when Brey left and a soccer team that can't compete, what exactly is wrong with the athletics program at UD? Are there things that can be better? Absolutely, but that can be said of any program. There is discussion of a new athletics complex, football attendance has never been better, there are some bright spots for men's bball, can't wait to see DelleDonna play volleyball.... what's the beef? xconfusedx

............and sarcasim is like a second language for you 89? I mean we were bad in everything except Vollyball and four of the five freshmen from the CAA champs are NOT coming back including Elena. Lets just hope for better days. UD athletics has never been worse overall.

[Husky Alum]

Elena's not coming back? Not coming back as in "not playing volleyball", or not coming back as in "leaving UD".

Is she focusing only on basketball?

[89Hen]

It is intriguing to think about what UD athletics could have been over the years without having an AD who basically made a career out of living in a bubble. He's been completely out of his league on so many levels for years.
What could it have been?

[State Line Liquors]

What could it have been?

More than a bottom of the pack basketball program in a mid major conference. Baseball has been middle of the road. Lacrosse has grown and had success, but is an inconsistent program. I was driving up I-95 from Baltimore and there was a road sign advertising J. Hopkins Lacrosse. Did anyone ever consider trying to grow that sport (one we were in the Final 4 of less than 5 years ago) into something more than a casually attended program? If so, what was it that they did? If Hopkins can do better, is there any reason we can't?

Didn't Edgar show up at a Touchdown Club meeting a few years back and ask how many of them were willing to give $10k for a new football stadium? It's basically a group of seniors collecting pensions and social security! He is a good man & a life long servant of UD, but he lacks charisma and vision. Stadiums come from corporate sponsorships, public funding, sustained fundraising drives & VISION.

I won't even delve into the terrible hiring/non-hiring of coaches, the scoreboard failure (ON HOMECOMING), Tickets to Chatty, the soccer program being irrelevant for a millenia, Tailgating policy, miscommunicating on parking and UDAF, moving a home game to Richmond, terrible athletic clothing marketing for years, a minor league athletics website until recently...those have been beaten to death.

[89Hen]

More than a bottom of the pack basketball program in a mid major conference. Baseball has been middle of the road. Lacrosse has grown and had success, but is an inconsistent program. I was driving up I-95 from Baltimore and there was a road sign advertising J. Hopkins Lacrosse. Did anyone ever consider trying to grow that sport (one we were in the Final 4 of less than 5 years ago) into something more than a casually attended program? If so, what was it that they did? If Hopkins can do better, is there any reason we can't?
Like I said, there is room for improvement. Bball can be pinpointed to one bad hire. I don't know if Monte is the answer, but he's a heck of a lot better than DH. (BTW, I was complaining about DH after the second year and it was funny that many Hen fans were all over me for not giving him a break. Can't seem to win with the fickle Hen fans.) TM has done a great job with women's hoops. Baseball is baseball. Does anyone really care about it? Cherry picking Hopkins lax is folly at best. How about Lehigh wrestling? If they can do it.... it's their thing. I wouldn't trade UD athletics for Hopkins athletics.

When you said it was intriguing to think what could have been, I was expecting you'd be able to give examples like: The Hens could be in the Big East, or we could have had a 30,000 seat stadium by now, or a Sweet 16 appearance.... the stuff you're talking about is nothing. More CAA titles? Yeah, that'd be nice, but is that really stuff dreams are made of?

[89Hen]

Elena's not coming back? Not coming back as in "not playing volleyball", or not coming back as in "leaving UD".

Is she focusing only on basketball?
All speculation. Given her late decision on UConn, I wouldn't take ANYTHING she said in March as indication of what she will be doing come October. xpeacex

[State Line Liquors]

Like I said, there is room for improvement. Bball can be pinpointed to one bad hire. I don't know if Monte is the answer, but he's a heck of a lot better than DH. (BTW, I was complaining about DH after the second year and it was funny that many Hen fans were all over me for not giving him a break. Can't seem to win with the fickle Hen fans.) TM has done a great job with women's hoops. Baseball is baseball. Does anyone really care about it? Cherry picking Hopkins lax is folly at best. How about Lehigh wrestling? If they can do it.... it's their thing. I wouldn't trade UD athletics for Hopkins athletics.

When you said it was intriguing to think what could have been, I was expecting you'd be able to give examples like: The Hens could be in the Big East, or we could have had a 30,000 seat stadium by now, or a Sweet 16 appearance.... the stuff you're talking about is nothing. More CAA titles? Yeah, that'd be nice, but is that really stuff dreams are made of?

Let me get this straight....You think they couldn't/shouldn't do a better job promoting lacrosse, basketball and baseball? They are all revenue streams that could add to the total pie. I don't think any of those programs even cover their own costs. Do they honestly even advertise football season tickets anywhere other than the athletics website? You are belittling the significance of other sports, while glorifying the women's basketball program? Woohoo Tina!

The Big East would be great!! It would also be completely obvious to suggest where we could be there if Edgar wasn't the AD. I don't think as an athletics department we are where we need to be, due to his lack of vision, to be able to compete in the Big East. We are struggling in the CAA. Joining a conference like the Big East requires more than just a football team. Do you think Edgar had the ability to be the acolyte for that kind of move?

[89Hen]

Let me get this straight....You think they couldn't/shouldn't do a better job promoting lacrosse, basketball and baseball? They are all revenue streams that could add to the total pie. I don't think any of those programs even cover their own costs. Do they honestly even advertise football season tickets anywhere other than the athletics website? You are belittling the significance of other sports, while glorifying the women's basketball program? Woohoo Tina!

The Big East would be great!! It would also be completely obvious to suggest where we could be there if Edgar wasn't the AD. I don't think as an athletics department we are where we need to be, due to his lack of vision, to be able to compete in the Big East. We are struggling in the CAA. Joining a conference like the Big East requires more than just a football team. Do you think Edgar had the ability to be the acolyte for that kind of move?
Lots to answer there. I think they need to do better with Men's bball and hopefully they are improving. I remember when Brey was at UD and we were all bemoaning the small size of the Bob and here we are 10 years later and not coming close to filling it. Bball needs to improve. No question there.

However, we all know there is a clear pecking order to athletics, both from a fan and revenue standpoint. Football is king by a BIIIIG margin. Men's bball is next. After that, you're talking about programs that are all pretty much money pits. There are probably some women's bball programs that turn a profit, but they are few and far between. Football and men's bball pretty much fund everything else. BTW, on the snide women's bball comment, on a national level it's pretty much next in line after men's bball, maybe neck and neck with baseball and where did I "glorify" it? I only said Tina has done a great job with it.

The Big East thing cracks me up. What makes any Hen fan think that UD would have been a target of the BE? You may think it's a goot fit for UD, but do you really think the BE views UD as a good fit for them? Even with a different AD? C'mon, that's just pie in the sky wishes by some fans. FWIW, I woudn't want any part of the BE. But even if that's your contention, when they first expanded, they were looking to well established I-A football programs. When BC, Miami and VT left, they were still looking for established I-A football programs. UConn had the golden ticket as being the only non I-A that would fit, and that was because UConn was already IN the BE.

Final comment, on asking about the advertising of football season tickets, if I'm not mistaken, season tickets have set a new high mark every year for sales and the Hens have had more sellouts in the last 5 years than probably the previous 15. IF they do build a new stadium that holds 30,000 then they will have to advertise the heck out of them. I'm not sure your point there. Keeler went door to door in the dorms when he first arrived spreading the word about getting students out to games.

[State Line Liquors]

Lots to answer there. I think they need to do better with Men's bball and hopefully they are improving. I remember when Brey was at UD and we were all bemoaning the small size of the Bob and here we are 10 years later and not coming close to filling it. Bball needs to improve. No question there.

However, we all know there is a clear pecking order to athletics, both from a fan and revenue standpoint. Football is king by a BIIIIG margin. Men's bball is next. After that, you're talking about programs that are all pretty much money pits. There are probably some women's bball programs that turn a profit, but they are few and far between. Football and men's bball pretty much fund everything else. BTW, on the snide women's bball comment, on a national level it's pretty much next in line after men's bball, maybe neck and neck with baseball and where did I "glorify" it? I only said Tina has done a great job with it.

The Big East thing cracks me up. What makes any Hen fan think that UD would have been a target of the BE? You may think it's a goot fit for UD, but do you really think the BE views UD as a good fit for them? Even with a different AD? C'mon, that's just pie in the sky wishes by some fans. FWIW, I woudn't want any part of the BE. But even if that's your contention, when they first expanded, they were looking to well established I-A football programs. When BC, Miami and VT left, they were still looking for established I-A football programs. UConn had the golden ticket as being the only non I-A that would fit, and that was because UConn was already IN the BE.

Final comment, on asking about the advertising of football season tickets, if I'm not mistaken, season tickets have set a new high mark every year for sales and the Hens have had more sellouts in the last 5 years than probably the previous 15. IF they do build a new stadium that holds 30,000 then they will have to advertise the heck out of them. I'm not sure your point there. Keeler went door to door in the dorms when he first arrived spreading the word about getting students out to games.

Which was more snide, my comment about women's basketball or you saying nobody cares about baseball? xpeacex

Which is it 89, not care about winning CAA championships or not being able to join the Big East? Your argument was that winning more CAA championships didn't matter. Now, we never even had a prayer of Big East acceptance. I personally would prefer to win lots of CAA championships to at least make a leap to the Big East look like something that could be feasible. Right now, it isn't. And I don't blame the BE for not having us on their radar. We could be better on so many levels besides just basketball. Nobody has ever even tried to parlay the popularity of the football program into drawing more attention to other sports. No vision.

Does the fact that season ticket sales have increased mean that it's not worthy of advertising? Does Keeler shaking student hands and kissing babies help the bottom line financially in some way that I'm unaware? I'm not sure of your point on that comment.

[89Hen]

Which was more snide, my comment about women's basketball or you saying nobody cares about baseball? xpeacex

Which is it 89, not care about winning CAA championships or not being able to join the Big East? Your argument was that winning more CAA championships didn't matter. Now, we never even had a prayer of Big East acceptance. I personally would prefer to win lots of CAA championships to at least make a leap to the Big East look like something that could be feasible. Right now, it isn't. And I don't blame the BE for not having us on their radar. We could be better on so many levels besides just basketball. Nobody has ever even tried to parlay the popularity of the football program into drawing more attention to other sports. No vision.

Does the fact that season ticket sales have increased mean that it's not worthy of advertising? Does Keeler shaking student hands and kissing babies help the bottom line financially in some way that I'm unaware? I'm not sure of your point on that comment.
Women's bball averages 1000-2000 fans per game. Baseball doesn't draw 1/10th of that. And before you say it's because baseball isn't any good, Maryland routinely gets 100-200 fans per game. Women's bball IS bigger than baseball for the most part and all I said was it was neck and neck with baseball (which was giving baseball a free pass).

The Big East thing is just stupid. Edgar or not.

The point was you are saying the department did nothing to promote season ticket sales but if they are setting records every year and we're at all time high attendance marks... what's your point?

[89Hen]

BTW, before this spirals so far down the road that we can't remember why we were even disagreeing in the first place... I do think UD should be competitive in all the CAA sports and I'd love to see them improve baseball, men's bball, be more consistant in lax, etc... but I think that goes without saying. All I'm asking is exactly what do you think would have been different with a different AD? Simply saying men's bball would have been better is silly. There is no basis on which to base that. To say UD would have been better positioned to be looked at by the BE is the same. What could/should have been done differently?

[State Line Liquors]

Women's bball averages 1000-2000 fans per game. Baseball doesn't draw 1/10th of that. And before you say it's because baseball isn't any good, Maryland routinely gets 100-200 fans per game. Women's bball IS bigger than baseball for the most part.

The Big East thing is just stupid. Edgar or not.

The point was you are saying the department did nothing to promote season ticket sales but if they are setting records every year and we're at all time high attendance marks... what's your point?

1) All scholarship sports should be marketed to generate revenue and/or offset costs. Putting a competitive product on the field in all of those sports and getting fans excited about them is crucial. Lacrosse has the ability to be a national power every season.

Would you like to retract your comment about CAA championships not mattering? (you did xbowx)
If you're going to say that only football and basketball matter, we will have to agree to disagree.

2)Talk of joining the Big East has been unrealistic. I don't think it means we shouldn't aspire to have nationally recognized athletic programs and facilities. Wanting to sit pat and maintain the status quo is completely unacceptable. For the most part, even though they may talk differently, that is the M.O. with athletics under Edgar.

3)Regarding attendance/ season tickets: There is always room for improvement. What percentage of seats are reserved for season tickets. Advertising is cheap. Maybe it gets a few thousand more season ticket holders on the books, sells some more concessions and merchandise, and gets a few more people interested in donating and getting involved with a school/product they care about. Get more people closely involved. There are plenty of empty seats at our home games, and those aren't just in the student section.

[bluehenbillk]

OK, I'll join in this conversation. UD athletics on the whole have been disappointing since joining the CAA IMO. The men's hoops program has tanked since Brey left, we can all agree on that. The selection of HC's since then has been a cluster@!#$. Remember the whole Willard fiasco?? Everyone knows DH couldn't recruit his way out of a shoebox & it goes on & on.

Baseball dominated the A-Least for years & everyone got spoiled. Scholarships got increased late & a foresightful AD should've realized that ahead of time, same with men's LAX. I won't mention the lesser sports because they're just lesser anyway.

Football is a different story, the success the team has had over decades speaks for itself, getting to Chatty in 2003 & 2007 recently. You guys mumble whatever you want over the Big East, but the fact remains the Big East has been shopping for a football affiliate or two for the past 2 seasons. I'd agree people aren't knocking down doors saying, "Join the MAC", "Join the Sun Belt", "Join C-USA", but the Big East, cmon, how can you NOT wanna be involved?!?!? Roselle & Harker are both huge cash flow guys, well, what better way to increase cash flow then get in a BCS league??

All this would require business acumen though, something UD's athletic department got left in the dust in back in the 1950's or 60's. There is no fund-raising, there is no marketing, there is no advertising, nothing. If you had a ranking in what schools spend in those areas we'd be near the bottom, and if you showed our plan to someone on Madison Ave they'd laugh or cry.

[93henfan]

Living in the state, I think I've observed one or two billboards along I-95 (nothing downstate at all) and a few radio spots on 94.7 and 92.9 with KC Keeler and some of the players pitching Delaware football tickets. I think that's about 90% of the extent of the UD sports marketing department.

[blukeys]

It is not necessary to choose between Women's bball and baseball (or Lacrosse). At UD we should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. The key to turning a non revenue program into a revenue program is winning and then building a succesffu tradition that keeps fan interest. That is what happenned in football.

At UD we have had sporadic success in the non-revenue sports thanks to the confluence of good coaching and some excellent athletes but there has been no effort to follow up on this success.

The ball to date has been dropped on the periiodic success of Lacrosse, Women's bball, volleyball and baseball (Don't get me into wrestling which was the sleeping giant UD turned away.)

There has been no unified effort by the athletic administration to have a coherent marketing effort to build attendance for any of the above named sports. Instead, the individual sports through their coaches have been left to make the local contacts and local marketing efforts.

There is an opportunity to turn certain non-revenue sports into at least break even propositions. Each sport has certain advantages. For instance Baseball has the most native Delaware athletes of any other sport at UD but it is never mentioned or promoted despite the fact that these kids are very popular locally. In addition DSU has many native Delaware kids in baseball which IMHO is the reason it is the most successful UD- DSU rivalry.

Bonnie Kenny has done a great job at volleyball and does a great job of reaching out to the CYM (formerly CYO) community to get young kids out to the games.

Considering UD's location and the explosion of interest in Lacrosse (instate and out of state), I don't see any reason UD can't compete with Johns Hopkins. We only need a few more scollies to be fully funded in that sport.

All this being said coaches of individual sports can only do so much. After all there are only 24 hours in a day and they are coaches first and not marketing directors.

The lack of vision in sports is especially apparent in the non-revenue sports. Yes we would have to spend some money initially but the potential is there and always has been. I hope that we will not spend another 20 years watching more wasted potential.

[89Hen]

Would you like to retract your comment about CAA championships not mattering? (you did xbowx)
If you're going to say that only football and basketball matter, we will have to agree to disagree.

There are plenty of empty seats at our home games, and those aren't just in the student section.
I think you are reading a LOT into the comment I made about CAA championships. I personally would love to see more of them (who wouldn't?), but what I said was "are they the things dreams are made of?". I said that because to me it sounded like you were saying 'just imagine how wonderful the UD athletic program could have been'. CAA championships would be great (I've said this at least three times now) but they're not like national championships (something the football Hens have accomplished).

I didn't say only those matter, but they are so far up the pecking order it's ridiculous to imply they aren't head and shoulders above all. All other sports ARE money pits. Lacrosse will never cover their expenses. Field hockey won't. Soccer won't. You do know that there are plenty of DI football teams that don't even turn a profit, don't you?

[89Hen]

but the fact remains the Big East has been shopping for a football affiliate or two for the past 2 seasons. I'd agree people aren't knocking down doors saying, "Join the MAC", "Join the Sun Belt", "Join C-USA", but the Big East, cmon, how can you NOT wanna be involved?!?!?
News to me on the football affiliate. I thought when the BE jettisoned Temple as a football affiliate they sent a clear message that they do NOT want any football only affiliates. The BE only has one affiliate right now and I'll bet you can't name them without looking them up.

As for who wouldn't want to be in the BE? Put me down on that list. UD would be the smallest public in the BE and would be the punching bag of everyone. You think the move to the CAA was tough???

[89Hen]

The key to turning a non revenue program into a revenue program...
You're joking, right? Name the sports that you think can generate a positive cash-flow besides football and basketball.

[State Line Liquors]

You wanted to know where we could've been: The answer is financially healthier (not dropping track programs), and much closer to having all the facilities we pi$$ & moan about wanting. We could have top tier baseball, basketball, lacrosse, football & yes even women's basketball....and position ourselves as a desirable choice for a windfall revenue stream like Big East membership. The athletics department under Edgar has done very little to reach beyond the most basic immediately local networks.

Tell me your opinion on the efforts of this athletic department to grow?

And yes, I'm quite well aware plenty of D1 programs don't turn a profit. Save the insultingly stupid questions for someone else.

[89Hen]

lacrosse, basketball and baseball? They are all revenue streams that could add to the total pie. I don't think any of those programs even cover their own costs.

1) All scholarship sports should be marketed to generate revenue and/or offset costs.

The key to turning a non revenue program into a revenue program

And yes, I'm quite well aware plenty of D1 programs don't turn a profit. Save the insultingly stupid questions for someone else.
There seemed to be a lot of talk about revenue on sports that simply aren't revenue producers.... anywhere. Like I said, look at a Maryland where they are pretty darn well rounded... their baseball draws 100-200 fans per game. That buys grass seed for the baseball stadium.

[89Hen]

(not dropping track programs)
BTW, Title IX. xpeacex

[State Line Liquors]

There seemed to be a lot of talk about revenue on sports that simply aren't revenue producers.... anywhere. Like I said, look at a Maryland where they are pretty darn well rounded... their baseball draws 100-200 fans per game. That buys grass seed for the baseball stadium.

Maryland is also perennially in the top 10 in both soccer and lacrosse. Wonder how they draw for those sports? Recent lax game against UNC they had 2700 in attendance. UMBC had 1700 in attendance. Georgetown had 2500. Wonder if they even charge for those events? Soccer had a home game against Evansville that drew 1800.

You have any thoughts on ways to improve the athletics department, or would you propose to just keep it the same? You enjoy using Maryland as an example...how can we be more like them?

I prefer solutions rather than excuses. xpeacex

[State Line Liquors]

BTW, Title IX. xpeacex

Some athletic departments look to expand their women sports when title 9 says their mens programs are too abundant.

[bluehenbillk]

News to me on the football affiliate. I thought when the BE jettisoned Temple as a football affiliate they sent a clear message that they do NOT want any football only affiliates. The BE only has one affiliate right now and I'll bet you can't name them without looking them up.

As for who wouldn't want to be in the BE? Put me down on that list. UD would be the smallest public in the BE and would be the punching bag of everyone. You think the move to the CAA was tough???

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282008/sports/college/big_east_eyeing_army__navy_deal_121965.htm

There's one article on the Big East eyeing expansion, I could cut & paste as many more as you'd want or countless blogs that talk about it.

In terms of not wanting to go, you're entitled to your opinion, I'd argue it's short-sigted and as small-minded as the people like EJ who ran UD's athletic dept for the past couple decades. Hopefully Harker changes things up.

Nobody said it'd be easy, but I'd much rather goto a 45k seat UD stadium to watch Pitt, WVU, L'Ville, etc vs a 22 K stadium & see Duquesne, Towson & Hofstra. Plus, wait till this season when none of the road games your unable to goto aren't on TV when the reality of CN8 dropping college football coverage sinks in. The Big East doesn't have that problem.

[89Hen]

Maryland is also perennially in the top 10 in both soccer and lacrosse. Wonder how they draw for those sports? Recent lax game against UNC they had 2700 in attendance. UMBC had 1700 in attendance. Georgetown had 2500. Wonder if they even charge for those events? Soccer had a home game against Evansville that drew 1800.

You have any thoughts on ways to improve the athletics department, or would you propose to just keep it the same? You enjoy using Maryland as an example...how can we be more like them?

I prefer solutions rather than excuses. xpeacex
The 2500 for the G'town game you found is more than they get for football. You're cherry picking again. Would you like to have UMBC athletics? They get more for lax, great. UD lax will draw over 1000 for some games, so half of Maryland sounds about right... Terps football is double UD attendance. So is their student body and alumni base. We're not going to be a Maryland. They are enourmous compared to UD.

Remember, I'm saying we're not far off where we could/should be. There are no big answers, but if there were, and I had them, I wouldn't be on a message board, I'd be in Harker's office talking about the opening. xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Some athletic departments look to expand their women sports when title 9 says their mens programs are too abundant.
UD has the most varsity sports of any CAA (actually tied with W&M). From what I've read in addition to cutting Men's Indoor Track (not even a CAA sport) they are adding Women's Golf (my hope for my daughter xsmiley_wix). xpeacex

[bluehenbillk]

UD has the most varsity sports of any CAA (actually tied with W&M). From what I've read in addition to cutting Men's Indoor Track (not even a CAA sport) they are adding Women's Golf (my hope for my daughter xsmiley_wix). xpeacex

They already did add women's golf, my boss' daughter is on the team.

[89Hen]

the reality of CN8 dropping college football coverage
BTW, let me know if you are sure Comcast isn't going to pick it. CAA football is the only thing keeping me from going to FiOs. :)

[89Hen]

They already did add women's golf, my boss' daughter is on the team.
Schollie? I hope, I hope, I hope xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282008/sports/college/big_east_eyeing_army__navy_deal_121965.htm

There's one article on the Big East eyeing expansion
No it's not. It's talking about an agreement for Army and Navy to play Big East opponents. xpeacex

[Syntax Error]

Good discussion. Thanks!

[bluehenbillk]

Comcast SportsNet in Philly will still pick up some games I'm sure, but with televising the Phillies, Flyers & Sixers it won't be anymore than they have in the past. I can't speak for Mid-Atlantic as I don't get that but CN8 carried the majority of the games.

[GannonFan]

BTW, let me know if you are sure Comcast isn't going to pick it. CAA football is the only thing keeping me from going to FiOs. :)


Comcast SportsNet in Philly will still pick up some games I'm sure, but with televising the Phillies, Flyers & Sixers it won't be anymore than they have in the past. I can't speak for Mid-Atlantic as I don't get that but CN8 carried the majority of the games.

FWIW, the Phillies TV schedule for the upcoming '09 season shows all of 1 game being shown live on what was the CN8 channel (now called the Comcast Network), and that being an afternoon game in Colorado in April. The other 161 games are on Comcast Sportsnet, myphl17, or a national carrier (FOX, ESPN) - all of which I believe are stations you can get on FiOS (show have FiOS TV available in my area any day now... xthumbsupx). The prospects of any CAA game, or other live event, being shown on what is left of CN8 are very, very unlikely, if not already a foregone conclusion that there won't be any.

[State Line Liquors]

The 2500 for the G'town game you found is more than they get for football. You're cherry picking again. Would you like to have UMBC athletics? They get more for lax, great. UD lax will draw over 1000 for some games, so half of Maryland sounds about right... Terps football is double UD attendance. So is their student body and alumni base. We're not going to be a Maryland. They are enourmous compared to UD.

Remember, I'm saying we're not far off where we could/should be. There are no big answers, but if there were, and I had them, I wouldn't be on a message board, I'd be in Harker's office talking about the opening. xsmiley_wix

That Georgetown # was from Maryland's home lacrosse game against Georgetown.

[89Hen]

I can't speak for Mid-Atlantic as I don't get that but CN8 carried the majority of the games.
Kind of a mixed bag down here. I always used to send e-mails to Comcast asking why they couldn't give us both M-A and Philly and for a very brief while they kinda did. Some Flyers games were on down here, but that has since stopped. I only stared getting CN8 two years ago (also littered their e-mail box about that one previously).

[89Hen]

That Georgetown # was from Maryland's home lacrosse game against Georgetown.
Ah, that makes more sense. I went to the G'town/Hen game here in DC last year, maybe the year before and there were maybe 500 fans.

[blukeys]

You're joking, right? Name the sports that you think can generate a positive cash-flow besides football and basketball.

Thanks for truncating my post with your selective editing.

Here is what I actually said. "There is an opportunity to turn certain non-revenue sports into at least break even propositions."

Reread my entire post and you will find which sports I think have that potential based on what has worked at other institutions. If you want to discuss what sports have that potential then we can do so. But selective editing of my posts to advance your view that ONLY football and Men's basketball can be "at least a break even proposition" is flawed and dishonest. There are schools where Lacrosse, Baseball, Women's Bball, and Volleyball are revenue neutral or better. I would be glad to discuss this if you will refrain from selective editing of my posts.

[89Hen]

Thanks for truncating my post with your selective editing.

Here is what I actually said. "There is an opportunity to turn certain non-revenue sports into at least break even propositions."

There are schools where Lacrosse, Baseball, Women's Bball, and Volleyball are revenue neutral or better. I would be glad to discuss this if you will refrain from selective editing of my posts.
After reading the above I still don't think I missed your contention, and you did NOT say "at least break even propositions". Above you say "or better" which would lead one to believe you DO think there are sports at UD besides football and men's bball that can generate positive revenue. What baseball programs make money? Seriously. I know some women's bball programs make money, but considering our men's program can't fill a 5k arena, do you really think women's bball can turn a profit? The only reason a women's bball program might be able to turn a profit is that there are only what, 10 schollies involved in a year? LAX, no way. Baseball, no way. Volleyball? xlolx

[State Line Liquors]

What baseball programs make money? Seriously.

89, there are baseball programs that make money.

I haven't seen the income statement, butNow take a look at a few of the photos from our home series against Marist (http://www.uncwsports.com/] take a look at the UNCW baseball webpage[/URL] *Updated the link to their athletics homepage

Looks they have sponsorship at their stadium, prominent sponsorship on their homepage, advertise a club membership for those who donate,etc. That's how you keep programs from being a financial burden.

[URL="http://http://www.henshots.com/Baseball/737669)

links are embedded.

[GannonFan]

How many baseball programs that aren't in the South make money? College baseball is dying in the Northeast, and UD has plenty of company with schools that just can't bring in the recruits that are tempted with longer seasons and better weather down South. I think UD would be better off trying to make money off of lacrosse. And if and when DellaDonne starts playing basketball for UD, they will turn a profit in women's b-ball, and will probably make more than the men's team. Heck, they'll be an instant top 20 team with her playing.

[State Line Liquors]

How many baseball programs that aren't in the South make money? College baseball is dying in the Northeast, and UD has plenty of company with schools that just can't bring in the recruits that are tempted with longer seasons and better weather down South. I think UD would be better off trying to make money off of lacrosse. And if and when DellaDonne starts playing basketball for UD, they will turn a profit in women's b-ball, and will probably make more than the men's team. Heck, they'll be an instant top 20 team with her playing.

Ok, GF....lets take a look at some photos from our Lacrosse games (http://http://www.henshots.com/Lacrosse/589700)

Note game against national top 10 Georgetown. See any advertising of any kind? See anyone in the stands? Did anybody get out the word other than by reading the schedule on the athletics website or the stupid blurb they put up on the homepage that there was even a game being played?

NO VISION. NO EFFORT

[GannonFan]

Ok, GF....lets take a look at some photos from our Lacrosse games (http://http://www.henshots.com/Lacrosse/589700)

Note game against national top 10 Georgetown. See any advertising of any kind? See anyone in the stands? Did anybody get out the word other than by reading the schedule on the athletics website or the stupid blurb they put up on the homepage that there was even a game being played?

NO VISION. NO EFFORT

No argument there, and I've said it for years - UD gets 22k into a football stadium for every game for every year and they do it will pretty much one billboard on I-95 and almost no other advertising whatsoever. That's why I said that they could make money off of lacrosse if they put the effort into it. But baseball is going to be a hard sell, no matter how much you put into it. Women's b-ball could certainly draw more if they did more, and hopefully DellaDonne will help with that.

[89Hen]

89, there are baseball programs that make money.

I haven't seen the income statement, but take a look at the UNCW baseball webpage (http://http://www.uncwsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=19800&KEY=&SPID=11329&SPSID=92919)

Looks they have sponsorship at their stadium, prominent sponsorship on their homepage, advertise a club membership for those who donate,etc. That's how you keep programs from being a financial burden.
They also don't have football. Don't underestimate the importance of that. With no football, people who would otherwise advertise for football now funnel down the pecking order. The link didn't work, but is it possible they play on a field that is also a minor league team field? I don't know. xpeacex

BTW, I'm really not a fan of all this cherry picking that's been going on in this thread (not just by you)... why can't we have Hopkins Lacrosse, UNC-W's Baseball, ODU's Women's BBall.... Of all the programs that have been mentioned, I'd put our entire athletic department up against theirs any day of the week.

We clobber everyone else in football attendance and support and we have the most varsity sports of all the CAA schools. I just don't think we're as horrible as everyone is saying.

[State Line Liquors]

I'm not trying to be combative here...

It's just completely stunning to me how little is done to promote athletics as a whole. Imagine if a business was run this way?

Tell me that baseball is a hard sell in Delaware, when the Phillies are 50 minutes up the road and there's a minor league team in Wilmington. Professional baseball is arguably more popular in the Northeast than any other geographical direction in the United States. They just need to make an effort and use their noggin. Saturday afternoons? Doubleheaders? Parlay it with a barbeque atmosphere, have other events going on on south campus at the same time. Football spring practice, lacrosse games, walk the field at the Tub. Meet and greet with the players and coaches after the game or in between double headers. Sponsors with giveaways. You-dee there for the kids. Get involved with local high schools and grammar schools, print and radio media to get the word out that we have something that takes place at Hannah Stadium!

[State Line Liquors]

They also don't have football. Don't underestimate the importance of that. With no football, people who would otherwise advertise for football now funnel down the pecking order. The link didn't work, but is it possible they play on a field that is also a minor league team field? I don't know. xpeacex

BTW, I'm really not a fan of all this cherry picking that's been going on in this thread (not just by you)... why can't we have Hopkins Lacrosse, UNC-W's Baseball, ODU's Women's BBall.... Of all the programs that have been mentioned, I'd put our entire athletic department up against theirs any day of the week.

We clobber everyone else in football attendance and support and we have the most varsity sports of all the CAA schools. I just don't think we're as horrible as everyone is saying.

Football MAKES US MONEY. That puts us at an advantage in terms of revenues and reinvesting in ourselves!!! Because we have football we can't put any marketing effort into baseball or lacrosse? You call it cherry picking, I call it 'best practices'. Do what makes other programs successful.

[State Line Liquors]

We clobber everyone else in football attendance and support and we have the most varsity sports of all the CAA schools. I just don't think we're as horrible as everyone is saying.

89, I'm not saying we're a horrible athletics program. We fail at being a MODERN athletics program.

[93henfan]

89, I'm not saying we're a horrible athletics program. We fail at being a MODERN athletics program.


I think we all agree with that statement.

[GannonFan]

I'm not trying to be combative here...

It's just completely stunning to me how little is done to promote athletics as a whole. Imagine if a business was run this way?

Tell me that baseball is a hard sell in Delaware, when the Phillies are 50 minutes up the road and there's a minor league team in Wilmington. Professional baseball is arguably more popular in the Northeast than any other geographical direction in the United States. They just need to make an effort and use their noggin. Saturday afternoons? Doubleheaders? Parlay it with a barbeque atmosphere, have other events going on on south campus at the same time. Football spring practice, lacrosse games, walk the field at the Tub. Meet and greet with the players and coaches after the game or in between double headers. Sponsors with giveaways. You-dee there for the kids. Get involved with local high schools and grammar schools, print and radio media to get the word out that we have something that takes place at Hannah Stadium!

You almost argue against baseball succeeding when you mention all the other baseball options in the area. Between Camden Yards, Citizens Bank, and the tons of minor league teams all in the area, college baseball is going to be a hard sell. The number of people who would go to a baseball game isn't an infinite number - eventually, they've spent their baseball dollars elsewhere, and it would be very hard for UD to compete with the products that are already in the area.

[State Line Liquors]

You almost argue against baseball succeeding when you mention all the other baseball options in the area. Between Camden Yards, Citizens Bank, and the tons of minor league teams all in the area, college baseball is going to be a hard sell. The number of people who would go to a baseball game isn't an infinite number - eventually, they've spent their baseball dollars elsewhere, and it would be very hard for UD to compete with the products that are already in the area.

There's are also other football options in the area Gannonfan. I agree that the economics of where somebody is spending their 'baseball money' is limited. For someone living in Newark or within about 5 miles, UD is the cheapest and closest which should work in their favor in the current economy. Not all versions of baseball are all not perfect replications of the same product, either. 'We use aluminum'.

Even if they did get 300 (which is not alot of people) paying attendees to the game, its at least something more than the 100 we get now. Start small and build your way up. Every program should have a plan of action in place to draw attention(not to say they dont have one now, but how ambitious), gather local support and advertising to help the program help themselves.

Also, please keep in mind that I'm not just talking about baseball in terms of marketing either. It's everything, the whole athletic department.

[GannonFan]

There's are also other football options in the area Gannonfan. I agree that the economics of where somebody is spending their 'baseball money' is limited. For someone living in Newark or within about 5 miles, UD is the cheapest and closest which should work in their favor in the current economy. Not all versions of baseball are all not perfect replications of the same product, either. 'We use aluminum'.

Even if they did get 300 (which is not alot of people) paying attendees to the game, its at least something more than the 100 we get now. Start small and build your way up. Every program should have a plan of action in place to draw attention(not to say they dont have one now, but how ambitious), gather local support and advertising to help the program help themselves.

Also, please keep in mind that I'm not just talking about baseball in terms of marketing either. It's everything, the whole athletic department.

I agree with the whole athletic department view, I was just saying that some sports are going to have much higher ceilings of potential interest than others.

And yes, there are other football options in the area. But remember, UD football has the luxury of already being the dominant attraction in the surrounding area, excluding pro football, and college football doesn't compete directly against pro football for attention since they don't play on the same days. If I had a choice of a Friday game in Newark or in South Philly, it's going to be hard to eschew the World Champs.

[YoUDeeMan]

I agree with the whole athletic department view, I was just saying that some sports are going to have much higher ceilings of potential interest than others.

And yes, there are other football options in the area. But remember, UD football has the luxury of already being the dominant attraction in the surrounding area, excluding pro football, and college football doesn't compete directly against pro football for attention since they don't play on the same days. If I had a choice of a Friday game in Newark or in South Philly, it's going to be hard to eschew the World Champs.

Can't agree that baseball can't attract more fans. It just has to be marketed better to create a family/fan atmosphere for spring ball.

Th Blue Rocks have been doing well for over a decade and they compete directly against the Phils.

As SLL and others have mentioned, the different sports programs don't have to make money and turn a profit, but the point is that they can make a lot more money than they do and they can be a lot more successful then they are.

A bigger fan base in each sport would offset schollie expenses and could be a draw for recruits...just look at the impact of 22,000 at the Tub. In this area hotbed, lacross could draw WAY more fans than they currently do. So could men's and women's BBall if we actually hired the right coaches, funded assistant coaches, and promoted the events.

No athlete wants to play in an empty stadium. Yet, UD does virtually nothing to promote their sports.

[89Hen]

Th Blue Rocks have been doing well for over a decade and they compete directly against the Phils.

As SLL and others have mentioned, the different sports programs don't have to make money and turn a profit, but the point is that they can make a lot more money than they do and they can be a lot more successful then they are.

A bigger fan base in each sport would offset schollie expenses and could be a draw for recruits...just look at the impact of 22,000 at the Tub. In this area hotbed, lacross could draw WAY more fans than they currently do. So could men's and women's BBall if we actually hired the right coaches, funded assistant coaches, and promoted the events.

No athlete wants to play in an empty stadium. Yet, UD does virtually nothing to promote their sports.
The Blue Rocks are the highest level of baseball in DE. Blue Hen football is the highest level of football in DE. Hen baseball is not and would be tough to draw. As said earlier, Maryland promotes the hell out of their sports and they routinely draw 150 fans for baseball games. I don't think it's a safe bet to say baseball or lax or anything else could draw a "lot" or "way" more fans. It would be like one of those companies that claims to be the "fastest growing xxxx"... that just means you went from selling 2 to 4.... in our case 100 fans vs. 150 fans... a 50% increase sounds good on paper. xpeacex