Might Fordham spur a rebirth of A-10 football?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's being discussed by fans of UNC-Charlotte:

http://www.ninernation.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23181


thelew1014: Richmond, URI, UMass, Duquesne, Fordham, Charlotte. That's enough to form a conference. If we sponsor it, then the A10 needs to grow some balls and make these teams choose. Richmond, if you want to play CAA football, go play everything else there too, you are far from irreplaceable. Dayton may very well decide to give scholarships of such a league forms, and Temple has been considering a drop to FCS for a while.

The same applies for us... if the A10 sponsors football, then we need to make a decision: will we play in the A10 or the Big South. It's bad enough that we can't find rivalries in basketball in our conference, playing schools that we won't play in other sports in only one sport won't do a damn thing.


ninerballin:I'm almost willing to bet the Patriot League laughed them out of the room.

First off, Fordham doesn't have that many options outside the Patriot league. 2nd off, who would be in an A10 Football league? UMass maybe, Villanova maybe, certainly could bring in Duquesne, I think La Salle is cutting football? Temple could be a possiblity, but I'm sure they don't want to regress to FCS. Rhode Island would probably join.

Richmond isn't going anywhere, CAA is a great fit for them. Outside of that there isn't that many teams that would tag along.

So, when you look at it, it wouldn't make much sense for Charlotte to be apart of that league, even if A10 Football was present. The Big South makes MUCH more sense. Sure, it's an easier league, but there would also be more fan support due to the locality of the teams in the Big South. It would be much easier to make a road trip to lets say, Gardner Webb, rather than a road trip to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh.

Thought it was very interesting to see this from the A-10 perspective. They're wondering if the A-10 football affiliates (Fordham, Duquesne, UMass, Richmond, URI, UNCC) might band together to sponsor football once again. For good measure, Dayton and even Temple are mentioned, too.

I don't think UMass or Richmond would ever be on board for this, incidentally, and for UNCC to consider it would be borderline insane - every conference game would be a flight. But it's being chattered about.

[Sly Fox]

I have to admit it does get the wheels turning for potential allegiances down the road.

[89Hen]

Thought it was very interesting to see this from the A-10 perspective. They're wondering if the A-10 football affiliates (Fordham, Duquesne, UMass, Richmond, URI, UNCC) might band together to sponsor football once again. For good measure, Dayton and even Temple are mentioned, too.
Would be interesting as long as Linda Bruno doesn't have anything to do with it. xthumbsupx

[GannonFan]

Hard to see Richmond ever doing that - would mean splintering off from the Virginia teams and Delaware - granted, they did that once before for the non-football sports, so it's not without precedent, but it's not like Richmond is really prospering from their move to the A-10 either. And UMass would be in a similar position of moving away from pretty long established rivalries. Temple will never move down to FCS - they'll drop football or stay where they are, so unless this is an FBS conference you can count Temple out. And since Dayton is never going to go FBS, you won't get both of them.

Sooooooo, yeah, there's no chance for this to happen since all the schools are in vastly different situations and ideas of where they want to be. It's hard enough for the A-10 to stay together right now in the non-football sports, in football, just no chance.

[danefan]

There are also schools that would be interested in affiliate status in the northeast (Stony Brook & Albany definitely, perhaps CCSU and Monmouth, but I don't know for sure).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hard to see Richmond ever doing that - would mean splintering off from the Virginia teams and Delaware - granted, they did that once before for the non-football sports, so it's not without precedent, but it's not like Richmond is really prospering from their move to the A-10 either. And UMass would be in a similar position of moving away from pretty long established rivalries. Temple will never move down to FCS - they'll drop football or stay where they are, so unless this is an FBS conference you can count Temple out. And since Dayton is never going to go FBS, you won't get both of them.

Sooooooo, yeah, there's no chance for this to happen since all the schools are in vastly different situations and ideas of where they want to be. It's hard enough for the A-10 to stay together right now in the non-football sports, in football, just no chance.

I agree on all counts. The only - huge - X-factor in all of this is the Big East, which is always the 500 lb gorilla in these discussions.

[henfan]

Come on, LFN. This was a shameless backhanded plug for your blog. From the title of the thread, I was expecting to see an article with a reputable source discussing Fordham's situation.

If I had any desire to read a thread from the perspective of people who don't really understand the dynamics & history of FCS football, don't understand the A-10 conference or the respective FB programs, I'd have visited the Charlotte message board myself.xsmhx

There is quite literally nothing to see here. At least most of the people who have offered unreasoned speculation about future conference realignment on AGS have some clue.

[GannonFan]

I agree on all counts. The only - huge - X-factor in all of this is the Big East, which is always the 500 lb gorilla in these discussions.

Of course, they don't appear to be in any rush to break apart as people have been sure they're going to do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If I had any desire to read a thread from the perspective of people who don't really understand the dynamics & history of FCS football, don't understand the A-10 conference or the respective FB programs, I'd have visited the Charlotte message board myself.xsmhx

There is quite literally nothing to see here. At least most of the people who have offered unreasoned speculation about future conference realignment on AGS have some clue.

You may be surprised to know that the views of people that know nothing about football, history or even sports at all matter - as fans of the Patriot League are painfully aware. xsmhx

Obviously I disagree that the banter over there means nothing - and no, it's not a plug for my blog, either.

[mainejeff]

Thought it was very interesting to see this from the A-10 perspective. They're wondering if the A-10 football affiliates (Fordham, Duquesne, UMass, Richmond, URI, UNCC) might band together to sponsor football once again. For good measure, Dayton and even Temple are mentioned, too.

That grouping of schools has very little in common.

I seriously doubt that UMass, URI, and Richmond would be stupid enough to push for this........and Charlotte will be on the fast track to FBS football eventually.

If those 3 did leave the CAA (won't happen), then that would bring the conference back to 11 which means that Albany would probably be next in line to become CAA Football member #12:

Maine
UNH
Northeastern
Albany
Hofstra
Villanova

Delaware
Towson
JMU
W&M
ODU
Georgia State

[CollegeSportsInfo]

I'd be interested in seeing what the requirements are for current A10 membership. it is a desirable basketball league, so it might be fairly clear cut: if you are a member of the A10 for basketball, and the league sponsors a given sport, you must participate as a member.

As for a new league, it's something I'd like to see. But mostly for the regional advantages. So UMass, URI, Fordham of the A10 teaming with Maine, UNH, Stonybrook and Albany of the AE would be great to see. Richmond and Charlotte are another issue but I would think they would need to be on board if the league were in fact A10 sponsored (5 teams). If it were AE football without Richmond and Charlotte, I'd think it would be less of an issue.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

There is no way Temple is going to drop down to FCS at this point. We have a good home in the MAC. It would not surprise me if we were this years Buffalo.

[GannonFan]

I'd be interested in seeing what the requirements are for current A10 membership. it is a desirable basketball league, so it might be fairly clear cut: if you are a member of the A10 for basketball, and the league sponsors a given sport, you must participate as a member.

As for a new league, it's something I'd like to see. But mostly for the regional advantages. So UMass, URI, Fordham of the A10 teaming with Maine, UNH, Stonybrook and Albany of the AE would be great to see. Richmond and Charlotte are another issue but I would think they would need to be on board if the league were in fact A10 sponsored (5 teams). If it were AE football without Richmond and Charlotte, I'd think it would be less of an issue.


The A10 is such a loose confederation of schools that trying to make a hard rule like "if we sponsor a sport and you play it you have to play it in conference" would just not work. The schools are basically together for basketball right now and although the A10's done a very commendable job there, even that association is loose.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd be interested in seeing what the requirements are for current A10 membership..

1. Have a basketball team.
2. Don't hurt our RPI numbers.

xlolx

These "requirements" are borne out by the "fans", who want Fordham and St. Bonnie out and dream of replacing with Georgetown and Villanova.

[BearsCountry]

It will be intresting to see what happens to the A-10 if the Big East blows up. You have to think that Temple, Xavier, Dayton, and Saint Louis would be involved in something.

[henfan]

There is no way Temple is going to drop down to FCS at this point. We have a good home in the MAC.

I don't know about a 'good home in the MAC' but that's for TU FB fans to decide. Problem is that Owl fans haven't been kicking in the gates of the Linc to attend games vs. MAC teams. IMO, the MAC affiliation is what it is and it's the only one available if TU wants to remain an FBS entitiy.

I agree that there's little chance that TU would consider FCS FB. The school clearly indicated several times before joining the MAC that they would eliminate FB before reclassifying.

Al Golden's a good coach and a stand up guy. If he can't make it work, then no one can.

[ChooChoo]

I agree on all counts. The only - huge - X-factor in all of this is the Big East, which is always the 500 lb gorilla in these discussions.
I agree.
Most are probably going to say that this is pretty "out there" thinking but bare with me.
Another big shakeup is bound to happen in the next decade. The most predicted split in the sport's message board world is the Big East football schools from the Catholic schools. If this split occurs, I think it will in turn split the CAA and A-10. This is how it could pan out and how this scenario would effect Fordham:

1.) Upon splitting, the 8 BE Catholic schools invite 6 schools (St.Louis, Xavier, Dayton, Duquesne, St.Joes, and St.Bonaventure) from the A-10 to join. Is that too far-fetched?

2.) The CAA and A-10 sit down together and restructure from within. A-10 will serve as the FCS conference and the CAA will host the schools headed towards FBS.

A.) The new A-10 will have 10 teams with 3 FB affiliates:
Maine (FB)
New Hampshire (FB)
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Fordham
Hofstra
Villanova (FB)
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
-----------------------
Drexel
LaSalle
George Washington

B.) CAA
UMass
Delaware
James Madison
Old Dominion
Charlotte (adding FB in 2013)
Georgia State
----------------------
Temple
George Mason
VCU
After the conference transitions to FBS, Temple would join for football, with Army and Navy as possible affiliates.
I dont know what I'd do with UNC-Wilmington
Do I know that these folks are all going FBS? No, of course not. They're just the most likely of the bunch that could move up. But let's face it, they've all made overtures about it and or intend to expand their stadiums for one reason or another in the future. Plus the current A-10, with their hodge-podge of basketball teams, has their football scattered everywhere. Something like this would help simplify things. I'd actually like to see Fordham in that second group of possible FBS schools eventually. I think their program has incredible potential to go along with a rich tradition. Adding scholies is a far cry from the school exploring "moving up" though.
Just sayin, somethings going to happen. It may not look anything like this but I do think things will look radically different a decade from now.

[Fordham]

I agree.
... I'd actually like to see Fordham in that second group of possible FBS schools eventually. I think their program has incredible potential to go along with a rich tradition. Adding scholies is a far cry from the school exploring "moving up" though.
Just sayin, somethings going to happen. It may not look anything like this but I do think things will look radically different a decade from now. Appreciate the thoughts but Fordham fans aren't looking or expecting any move from FCS. What we do want is to be as competitive on the field as our budget is with the rest of FCS, to compete for league titles on a consistent basis and do it while molding great student-athletes into even greater alums.

I do agree that funky things are afoot, conference-wise, for the next few years, though.

[RichH2]

Whilethe speculations are interesting unless and until Big East morphs A10 will not change. Bball rules that roost.

[State Line Liquors]

Sorry, and no offense to Fordham's program (whose move I respect), but all the discussion about new conferences being formed perpetuated by this one move is ridiculous.

Richmond dropping out of the CAA so they can play Fordham, Dayton, UNCC in a startup league would be a huge step backwards for the National Champs. Things are going along pretty smoothly in the CAA at the moment, at least from a competitive standpoint. The CAA is a 4 or 5 bid football conference at the moment, and more than likely for the foreseeable future. Leaving to go to a conference that maybe gets 1 or 2 at best would be foolish for any CAA football program.

[ur2k]

The a10 had the football conference until very recently and didn't seem to want it. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

[blukeys]

Sorry, and no offense to Fordham's program (whose move I respect), but all the discussion about new conferences being formed perpetuated by this one move is ridiculous.

Richmond dropping out of the CAA so they can play Fordham, Dayton, UNCC in a startup league would be a huge step backwards for the National Champs. Things are going along pretty smoothly in the CAA at the moment, at least from a competitive standpoint. The CAA is a 4 or 5 bid football conference at the moment, and more than likely for the foreseeable future. Leaving to go to a conference that maybe gets 1 or 2 at best would be foolish for any CAA football program.


Not to mention Richmond would have to give up regular season games with W&M, JMU, Nova, Delaware for Dayton. Fordham, and Temple.

I agree with SLL all of these speculations that appear to make sense on paper do not take into account of what is the preference of these individual schools.

For instance anyone with half a brain would see the advanatge in Temple making a move to FCS. I have talked with former students and current faculty of Temple and all agree that there would be considerably more interest in scheduling. Penn, Nova, Delaware, Princeton, Lehigh, and Lafayette. All of these schools are no more than an hour drive away from Philly. (Of course Nova and Penn are considerably closer) And most fans and students know folks at the schools of these potential opponents.

Depite the fact that Temple would fare better financially, the administration insists on bringing in the fan favorites from Western and Central Michigan. The Temple administration has consistently said they would forego football rather than go to FCS.

Most of the speculation about Richmond and Nova has come from everyone but Richmond and Nova fans.

New conferences with no history of playing each is not a prescription to generate fan interest. Schools such as Umass and UNH generate a lot more interest among UD fans because of the competiveness of the rivalry. I am sure the reverse is also the same. One does not just create rivalries because it looks good on paper.

[th0m]

Sorry, and no offense to Fordham's program (whose move I respect), but all the discussion about new conferences being formed perpetuated by this one move is ridiculous.

My thoughts exactly.

[Wildcat80]

Not to mention Richmond would have to give up regular season games with W&M, JMU, Nova, Delaware for Dayton. Fordham, and Temple.

I agree with SLL all of these speculations that appear to make sense on paper do not take into account of what is the preference of these individual schools.

For instance anyone with half a brain would see the advanatge in Temple making a move to FCS. I have talked with former students and current faculty of Temple and all agree that there would be considerably more interest in scheduling. Penn, Nova, Delaware, Princeton, Lehigh, and Lafayette. All of these schools are no more than an hour drive away from Philly. (Of course Nova and Penn are considerably closer) And most fans and students know folks at the schools of these potential opponents.

Depite the fact that Temple would fare better financially, the administration insists on bringing in the fan favorites from Western and Central Michigan. The Temple administration has consistently said they would forego football rather than go to FCS.

Most of the speculation about Richmond and Nova has come from everyone but Richmond and Nova fans.

New conferences with no history of playing each is not a prescription to generate fan interest. Schools such as Umass and UNH generate a lot more interest among UD fans because of the competiveness of the rivalry. I am sure the reverse is also the same. One does not just create rivalries because it looks good on paper.

No temple game generates as much interest as the one game against psu. i doubt they keep playing if temple goes fcs. in reality only the local fcs fans care about the games you mention. i saw last year's last second buffalo win over temple on espn. fcs games rarely draw that type of interest. replays are still being played of buffalo's TD!

[Jackman]

New conferences with no history of playing each is not a prescription to generate fan interest. Schools such as Umass and UNH generate a lot more interest among UD fans because of the competiveness of the rivalry.
And in the new, expanded CAA, UMass and UNH will be visiting Delaware once every 7 years. So... reserve your tickets early, 'cuz it'll be a long ass time before we swing around again. I know I personally am trying to time the birth of my children around the CAA's schedule so that they can see Delaware three times, at ages 4, 11 and 18. Though really, 4 years old is too young to appreciate or even remember a football game, and at 18 they might already be out of the house, off to college or just plain hating me. But that kid is really going to enjoy this historic rivalry at age 11. Unless he's sick that day. Damn, didn't think of that. It's probably safer to only go for the 2 Delaware game package, maybe at 8 and 15, to lock in that second chance. Hopefully the CAA releases these schedules soon so the little woman and I can start making preparations.

[henfan]

And in the new, expanded CAA, UMass and UNH will be visiting Delaware once every 7 years.

Well, the conference has yet to make a decision on how the two divisions will be split once ODU & GSU come on board, so I wouldn't jump the gun just yet with that assumption.

If UD remains in the South division, a visit to Amherst once every 6, 7 or 8 years is better than a vist once every.... well, let's face it, probably never.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And in the new, expanded CAA, UMass and UNH will be visiting Delaware once every 7 years. So... reserve your tickets early, 'cuz it'll be a long ass time before we swing around again. I know I personally am trying to time the birth of my children around the CAA's schedule so that they can see Delaware three times, at ages 4, 11 and 18. Though really, 4 years old is too young to appreciate or even remember a football game, and at 18 they might already be out of the house, off to college or just plain hating me. But that kid is really going to enjoy this historic rivalry at age 11. Unless he's sick that day. Damn, didn't think of that. It's probably safer to only go for the 2 Delaware game package, maybe at 8 and 15, to lock in that second chance. Hopefully the CAA releases these schedules soon so the little woman and I can start making preparations.

This post made me laugh so hard I think my co-workers think I'm plum crazy. xlolx

Back on topic, though, the discussion about the A-10, while primarily about football, exposes some other real interesting fault lines within the conference that make it look like a basketball marriage of convenience while waiting for the Big East to do whatever it's going to do. There's little way that without men's college basketball and their status as an upper mid major that the institutions themselves have little synergy - I mean, how do St. Bonaventure's and UNC-Charlotte's have common institutional goals? Where's the similarities between Dayton and URI?

Worse, they're so far flung that there's little chance of seeing many great rivalries like Temple/St. Joe's (which dates back to the ECC years) or Dayton/Xavier. It's no wonder that they look like a holding area for teams heading to the Cathlolic Division of the Big East - whenever that split or non-split happens.

Fordham's move in football - if it happens - won't affect the A-10. It's the Big East's moves that will shake up the A-10 - and when that happens, the ripple effects will reverberate through all Eastern conferences.

[blukeys]

No temple game generates as much interest as the one game against psu. i doubt they keep playing if temple goes fcs. in reality only the local fcs fans care about the games you mention. i saw last year's last second buffalo win over temple on espn. fcs games rarely draw that type of interest. replays are still being played of buffalo's TD!

The reason there is interest for the PSU game is that Penn State fans swamp the LINC. Temple fans are seriously outnumbered at home against Penn State and Navy and they still can't sell out the facility.

I guess having one money game while losing millions makes sense to some at Temple.

Accepting your logic, (which is the administration's position) temple should continue to lose millions in the hopes of getting one big replay on ESPN.

For the record, Temple's administration has already said and has repeatedly said that they would give up football rather than play FCS. I think that position is foolish.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The reason there is interest for the PSU game is that Penn State fans swamp the LINC. Temple fans are seriously outnumbered at home against Penn State and Navy and they still can't sell out the facility.

I guess having one money game while losing millions makes sense to some at Temple.

Accepting your logic, (which is the administration's position) temple should continue to lose millions in the hopes of getting one big replay on ESPN.

For the record, Temple's administration has already said and has repeatedly said that they would give up football rather than play FCS. I think that position is foolish.

But you forgot: Temple ALSO gets Tuesday night football (occasionally) out of the deal! xlolx And they also get the chance to play in an ESPN-televised "bowl game" - that they pay for! xlolx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Temple football has been a joke for a while and the schools handling of the situation has been the primary problem. However, i do believe we're in a good sitation for right now. First our prior president, David Adamley was a dumba$$. He set the university back 10 years during his time.

There's no other conference to be in and we can compete in the MAC right now. If things weren't looking promising Al Golden would have jumped ship. The top 3-4 teams in the MAC do get TV appearances and bowl appearances which gives them more pub than every FCS team. The Linc is one of our biggest problems. NFL stadiums are too sterile for the college game, especially us. Franklin Field was a much better place for us to play at. My hope is by the time our lease runs up with the Linc, which is about 6 years, we'll have the ability to build an on campus stadium. With Temple becoming a residential school and having the land i think a 30k seat stadium would be sucessful.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

1. Have a basketball team.
2. Don't hurt our RPI numbers.

xlolx

These "requirements" are borne out by the "fans", who want Fordham and St. Bonnie out and dream of replacing with Georgetown and Villanova.

Interesting thought. But as an A10 fan for many years, I have to say that I've never once heard that idea on any of the school forums nor the various incarnations of the A10 forum.

The idea of retraction is popular with St. Bonaventure topping the list along with LaSalle, Duquesne and Fordham. But commonly, the idea is drop schools to get to 10 or 12 rather than 14. And when expansion ideas are mentioned, usually it's Butler topping the list (to support STL, Xavier and Dayton regionally). The idea of a Big East team downgrading to the A10 is virtually non-existent...

[CollegeSportsInfo]

It will be intresting to see what happens to the A-10 if the Big East blows up. You have to think that Temple, Xavier, Dayton, and Saint Louis would be involved in something.

Most likely only Xavier. If something does happen, there would be little need to expand much. Xavier would replace the loss on Cincy. Perhaps STL for the market and to extend the footprint for DePaul and Marquette. But beyond 9 or 10 schools...makes little sense economically.

[LeopardFan04]

Temple football has been a joke for a while and the schools handling of the situation has been the primary problem. However, i do believe we're in a good sitation for right now. First our prior president, David Adamley was a dumba$$. He set the university back 10 years during his time.

There's no other conference to be in and we can compete in the MAC right now. If things weren't looking promising Al Golden would have jumped ship. The top 3-4 teams in the MAC do get TV appearances and bowl appearances which gives them more pub than every FCS team. The Linc is one of our biggest problems. NFL stadiums are too sterile for the college game, especially us. Franklin Field was a much better place for us to play at. My hope is by the time our lease runs up with the Linc, which is about 6 years, we'll have the ability to build an on campus stadium. With Temple becoming a residential school and having the land i think a 30k seat stadium would be sucessful.


I'm curious as to where that would fit. You're talking right near Broad, or out at the Ambler campus (I don't know what kind of room is out there...) The site of the old Temple Stadium (Mt. Airy) is now a huge church.

[jmufan999]

Sorry, and no offense to Fordham's program (whose move I respect), but all the discussion about new conferences being formed perpetuated by this one move is ridiculous.

Richmond dropping out of the CAA so they can play Fordham, Dayton, UNCC in a startup league would be a huge step backwards for the National Champs. Things are going along pretty smoothly in the CAA at the moment, at least from a competitive standpoint. The CAA is a 4 or 5 bid football conference at the moment, and more than likely for the foreseeable future. Leaving to go to a conference that maybe gets 1 or 2 at best would be foolish for any CAA football program.

i was going to read the rest of the responses, but you summed up my thoughts exactly. whenever a new league is proposed, it seems like sometimes people (at least on AGS) do not think about how it would affect ALL the teams involved. no team is going to take a step backward, and going to a brand new league from a 4-5 bid conference would make absolutely no sense. i know there is very little football to talk about right now, but this topic comes up a lot and it rarely makes sense for the CAA school leaving a top conference.

[GannonFan]

Temple football has been a joke for a while and the schools handling of the situation has been the primary problem. However, i do believe we're in a good sitation for right now. First our prior president, David Adamley was a dumba$$. He set the university back 10 years during his time.

There's no other conference to be in and we can compete in the MAC right now. If things weren't looking promising Al Golden would have jumped ship. The top 3-4 teams in the MAC do get TV appearances and bowl appearances which gives them more pub than every FCS team. The Linc is one of our biggest problems. NFL stadiums are too sterile for the college game, especially us. Franklin Field was a much better place for us to play at. My hope is by the time our lease runs up with the Linc, which is about 6 years, we'll have the ability to build an on campus stadium. With Temple becoming a residential school and having the land i think a 30k seat stadium would be sucessful.


I'm curious as to where that would fit. You're talking right near Broad, or out at the Ambler campus (I don't know what kind of room is out there...) The site of the old Temple Stadium (Mt. Airy) is now a huge church.

I too am curious as to what land you're going to put a 30k field on. And Temple's still a public university so fundraising for such a large expense would be a major obstacle.

As for Franklin Field, I saw a few Temple games there and IMO it wasn't any better than what you have now at the Linc - Franklin is a pretty big stadium, and with the track you're even further away from the action compared to the Linc. And it's not like there were many people there either - most places are going to feel sterile with that many empty seats.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I too am curious as to what land you're going to put a 30k field on. And Temple's still a public university so fundraising for such a large expense would be a major obstacle.

As for Franklin Field, I saw a few Temple games there and IMO it wasn't any better than what you have now at the Linc - Franklin is a pretty big stadium, and with the track you're even further away from the action compared to the Linc. And it's not like there were many people there either - most places are going to feel sterile with that many empty seats.

May I add the pressbox at Franklin Field is prehistoric. But I'm assuming the actual seats (never mind the press box) at the Linc as 21st century as opposed to the 19th-century torture devices at Franklin Field.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I too am curious as to what land you're going to put a 30k field on. And Temple's still a public university so fundraising for such a large expense would be a major obstacle.

As for Franklin Field, I saw a few Temple games there and IMO it wasn't any better than what you have now at the Linc - Franklin is a pretty big stadium, and with the track you're even further away from the action compared to the Linc. And it's not like there were many people there either - most places are going to feel sterile with that many empty seats.

Between 15th and 16th street. There's a large open area that currently has turf fields, and our track and field facilities. That would be a perfect spot for a stadium.

I saw about 4 games at FF and all 4 games had a decent crowd for a bad team, 25k or so. The Linc just stinks for college football much like Heinz Field in Pittsburgh.

[GannonFan]

Between 15th and 16th street. There's a large open area that currently has turf fields, and our track and field facilities. That would be a perfect spot for a stadium.

I saw about 4 games at FF and all 4 games had a decent crowd for a bad team, 25k or so. The Linc just stinks for college football much like Heinz Field in Pittsburgh.

The Linc only stinks because it's not filled. If a team played there and filled the place, it would feel vastly different. Same with Heinz Field. Plenty of the large attendance draw teams in FBS play in stadiums very similar to the Linc and they seem to do just fine. But Temple's never going to draw 70k for a game outside of Penn St playing there so it's something we'll never see.

Could probably fit a stadium in there - but the question is still whether spending tens of millions on a stadium that might still have problems drawing fans (even Temple basketball has trouble drawing to the Liacouras and they've certainly been far more successful than the football team) is a wise investment or not.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Linc only stinks because it's not filled. If a team played there and filled the place, it would feel vastly different. Same with Heinz Field. Plenty of the large attendance draw teams in FBS play in stadiums very similar to the Linc and they seem to do just fine. But Temple's never going to draw 70k for a game outside of Penn St playing there so it's something we'll never see.

Could probably fit a stadium in there - but the question is still whether spending tens of millions on a stadium that might still have problems drawing fans (even Temple basketball has trouble drawing to the Liacouras and they've certainly been far more successful than the football team) is a wise investment or not.

Name me one college that has been sucessful playing in pro stadiums? Minnesota, South Florida, Pitt, San Diego State, and Miami off the top of my head all have had trouble with attendance. Minnesota's crowd support will improve ten fold with them moving back on campus. Is there any school that plays in a pro stadium that cracks the top 50 in attendance? Given the fact that we have very few marquee matchups make it that much harder.

I think we'd draw very well if we had an on campus facility. Like i said before Temple has become a lot more of a residential school so kids stick around on the weekends, about 12k live on or near campus. There's a lot of kids at Temple now from the "boonies" so they're more conditioned to friday night football games and such. Thankfully, we still do have a good amount of commuters which means there is a lot of parking lots for tailgating which would be great. The biggest problem with basketball is the teams we play. Against the bigger named A10 teams (Xavier, URI, Dayton, St. Joe's, Umass) and marquee OOC games we draw fine. There just isn't enough interest in St. Bonnie, GW etc. However football games are more conducive to generating student interest because it's more of an "event". In football i think with some smart scheduling we would do great. FCS games against Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Umass, Lafayette would draw very well. Throw in another OOC game against Navy, Maryland, Rutgers, Army etc and we'd have no problem averaging 25k a year.

[BearsCountry]

Most likely only Xavier. If something does happen, there would be little need to expand much. Xavier would replace the loss on Cincy. Perhaps STL for the market and to extend the footprint for DePaul and Marquette. But beyond 9 or 10 schools...makes little sense economically.

I see Temple going back to the Big East with the football schools in a split. They got to have the Philadelphia market and the Owls are improving in football. Xavier is a slam dunk for the Catholic league, it depends if Notre Dame bolts for who knows what then Dayton and SLU are locks. One of those two are going to join it IMO. 10 schools is the perfect number for basketball. 18 round robin schedule. Easy travel partners for other sports.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Name me one college that has been sucessful playing in pro stadiums? Minnesota, South Florida, Pitt, San Diego State, and Miami off the top of my head all trouble with attendance. Minnesota's crowd support will improve ten fold with them moving back on campus. Is there any school that plays in a pro stadium that cracks the top 50 in attendance? Given the fact that we have very few marquee matchups make it that much harder.

I think we'd draw very well if we had an on campus facility. Like i said before Temple has become a a lot more of residential school so kids stick around on the weekends, about 12k live on or near campus. There's a lot of kids at Temple now from "sticks" so their more conditioned to friday night football games and such. But we still do have a good of commuters which means there is a lot of parking lots for tailgating which would be great. The biggest problem with basketball is the teams we play. Against the bigger names A10 teams and marquee OOC games we draw fine. There just isn't enough interest in St. Bonnie, GW etc. However football games are more conducive to generating student interest because it's more of an "event". In football i think with some smart scheduling we would do great. FCS games against Delaware, Lehigh, Umass, Lafayette would draw very well. Throw in another OOC game against Navy, Maryland, Rutgers, Army etc and we'd have no problem averaging 25k a year.

xnodxxnodxxnodx

[GannonFan]

Name me one college that has been sucessful playing in pro stadiums? Minnesota, South Florida, Pitt, San Diego State, and Miami off the top of my head all have had trouble with attendance. Minnesota's crowd support will improve ten fold with them moving back on campus. Is there any school that plays in a pro stadium that cracks the top 50 in attendance? Given the fact that we have very few marquee matchups make it that much harder.


Interesting you say that considering you answered your own question - South Florida (#42), Pitt (#44), Minnesota (#45), and Miami (#50) are all in the top 50 for attendance, using the most recent year's numbers. Temple was #112 out of #119 teams - their lack of attendance has much more to do than with where they play.



I think we'd draw very well if we had an on campus facility. Like i said before Temple has become a lot more of a residential school so kids stick around on the weekends, about 12k live on or near campus. There's a lot of kids at Temple now from the "boonies" so they're more conditioned to friday night football games and such. Thankfully, we still do have a good amount of commuters which means there is a lot of parking lots for tailgating which would be great. The biggest problem with basketball is the teams we play. Against the bigger named A10 teams (Xavier, URI, Dayton, St. Joe's, Umass) and marquee OOC games we draw fine. There just isn't enough interest in St. Bonnie, GW etc. However football games are more conducive to generating student interest because it's more of an "event". In football i think with some smart scheduling we would do great. FCS games against Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Umass, Lafayette would draw very well. Throw in another OOC game against Navy, Maryland, Rutgers, Army etc and we'd have no problem averaging 25k a year.

I say this as a fan of Big 5 basketball and Temple as well, but why do you think a football program that has known mediocrity for decades now would all of a sudden be revitalized, playing a heavy diet of MAC teams who certainly Temple and Philly fans would not consider marquee games, in a city that pretty much has always eschewed college football and only watches Penn St as a way of biding time until the Eagles play on Sunday? And this is a school who only averages about 50% capacity in a 10,000 seat, on campus basketball arena, with a basketball team that has been prominent nationally for decades, and even when a team of national reknown comes into play at Temple, as #8 ranked Tennessee did this year, they still fall far short of a sellout (just over 8k for that game). FBS fans are fickle sometimes - if you're not a big time, BCS FBS team, it's hard to draw fans - thinking that Temple would have no problem averaging 25k (which, btw, would make them the biggest drawing MAC team by several thousand) is a bit of a leap.

[DFW HOYA]

Name me one college that has been sucessful playing in pro stadiums?

There are a number of them over the years:

1. USC (before and after the Rams)
2. Miami
3. SMU (when they played at Texas Stadium in the 1980's)
4. Houston (in its Astodome heyday)

No, Tulane doesn't count...

[AppMan]

It's being discussed by fans of UNC-Charlotte:

http://www.ninernation.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23181



Thought it was very interesting to see this from the A-10 perspective. They're wondering if the A-10 football affiliates (Fordham, Duquesne, UMass, Richmond, URI, UNCC) might band together to sponsor football once again. For good measure, Dayton and even Temple are mentioned, too.

I don't think UMass or Richmond would ever be on board for this, incidentally, and for UNCC to consider it would be borderline insane - every conference game would be a flight. But it's being chattered about.

Most Charlotte fans are delusional anyway. They believe football recruits will come flocking to their campus and the Big East or a revamped CUSA is going to welcome them with open arms. The administration has modeled their efforts after USF's program, problem is they don't have the luxury of using a NFL stadium. In these economic times it will be extremely tough for them to just get their proposed 12,000 seat facility built. They only drew 2/3 capacity for their flagship sport of basketball this past season and their other marquee sport, baseball, is successful but plays in a pathetic conference that is easy to get 30+ wins out of. They continually downgrade the SoCon and ASU in particular, but deep down inside know they are going to have to deal with the Boys from Boone somewhere down the line. Like I always say, when they're talking bad about you, you've got 'em scared.

[ur2k]

Most Charlotte fans are delusional anyway. They believe football recruits will come flocking to their campus and the Big East or a revamped CUSA is going to welcome them with open arms. The administration has modeled their efforts after USF's program, problem is they don't have the luxury of using a NFL stadium. In these economic times it will be extremely tough for them to just get their proposed 12,000 seat facility built. They only drew 2/3 capacity for their flagship sport of basketball this past season and their other marquee sport, baseball, is successful but plays in a pathetic conference that is easy to get 30+ wins out of. They continually downgrade the SoCon and ASU in particular, but deep down inside know they are going to have to deal with the Boys from Boone somewhere down the line. Like I always say, when they're talking bad about you, you've got 'em scared.

They've also been crying about their move 'down' to a10 basketball but haven't won a thing since they've been in the league.

[ngineer]

I think Temple revitalizing rivalries with local colleges could draw an average of 15,000-25,000. A few years ago at Franklin Field, Lehigh and Penn drew about 20,000 on a Saturday night. Great atmosphere. I don't think they would average 25,000 though. As shown witht the Tennessee game, Temple only has a core/base attendance of about 7,000.

[blukeys]

I think Temple revitalizing rivalries with local colleges could draw an average of 15,000-25,000. A few years ago at Franklin Field, Lehigh and Penn drew about 20,000 on a Saturday night. Great atmosphere. I don't think they would average 25,000 though. As shown witht the Tennessee game, Temple only has a core/base attendance of about 7,000.

Delaware drew 30,000+ to Veteran's Stadium in the 70's.

I think some other local teams could draw well also. At least I would put the attendance above what Central and Western Michigan are drawing.

Of course Temple could always depend on the Penn State faithful turning the Linc into Happy Valley East for their every other year pay day. xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx

This always works for building a local fan base. xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Delaware drew 30,000+ to Veteran's Stadium in the 70's.

I think some other local teams could draw well also. At least I would put the attendance above what Central and Western Michigan are drawing.

Of course Temple could always depend on the Penn State faithful turning the Linc into Happy Valley East for their every other year pay day. xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx

This always works for building a local fan base. xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx

Of course PSU is going to outdraw Temple at the LINC. Penn State used to out draw Rutgers when the two would play at the Medowlands.

If Temple ever got an on campus stadium we would draw 20-25k a game with smart scheduling. We could still play Penn State at the Linc i'm sure.

Temple-Villanova got 35k at the Linc in 2003 so i have to believe games against Delaware, Lehigh, and Lafayette would probably out draw most MAC teams.

[blukeys]

Of course PSU is going to outdraw Temple at the LINC. Penn State used to out draw Rutgers when the two would play at the Medowlands.

If Temple ever got an on campus stadium would draw 20-25k a game with smart scheduling. We could still play Penn State at the Linc i'm sure.

Temple-Villanova got 35k at the Linc in 2003 so i have to believe games against Delaware, Lehigh, and Lafayette would probably out draw most MAC teams.

For the Record, I saw Jimi Hendrix at the last on campus stadium at Temple. If they could do it in the 60's and 70's, why not now???

[DFW HOYA]

For the Record, I saw Jimi Hendrix at the last on campus stadium at Temple. If they could do it in the 60's and 70's, why not now???

Temple Stadium was torn down in 1997.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Temple Stadium was torn down in 1997.

Plus it wasn't on campus.

[AppMan]

They've also been crying about their move 'down' to a10 basketball but haven't won a thing since they've been in the league.

That crowd thinks they are too good for anythinge other than a FBS conference. On a side note, national championship or not I have a hard time understanding how the CAA allows you guys to play football and womens golf in their conference and everything else in the A-10. That must have been the sale job of the century. Personally, I think CofC, UNCG, and Davidson should be shown the door in the SoCon. IMO, you are either in the conference or you are out.

[ur2k]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. When we made the switch to the a10 - the football league was under the umbrella of the a10. Not the CAA as it is now.