Recruiting Q&A with Lehigh's Andy Coen

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/02/q-with-coach-coen-on-class-of-2013.html

Some specifics on Lehigh's incoming class, but I also talked a bit about the academic index and how that affects recruiting, Scout.com, and others.

Also I was able to confirm that Artim is back for 2009, and that there indeed are two more names in Lehigh's class of 2013. I'm not at liberty to disclose who they are, but one is a DB/WR, so carney, please adjust your Patsy Rating appropriately. xthumbsupx

[Wildcat80]

Do you think Lehigh & the Patriot schools go full athletic scholarships in two years-which is what I heard? I hope so!!! Today you can recruit either smart rich kids or smart poor kids---but not the vast middle. Same as Ivy. I hope PL changes.

[DFW HOYA]

Do you think Lehigh & the Patriot schools go full athletic scholarships in two years-which is what I heard? I hope so!!!

Don't count on it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Do you think Lehigh & the Patriot schools go full athletic scholarships in two years-which is what I heard? I hope so!!! Today you can recruit either smart rich kids or smart poor kids---but not the vast middle. Same as Ivy. I hope PL changes.

I'll bite. Where did you hear that?

[Wildcat80]

I actually heard it from a coach at your crosstown rival.....it's about time to just do it. Quit wasting time & energy on AI's & need appls etc....give football schollies & compete with the FCS big boys. Leave the Ivies to themselves. The PL can compete with CAA & Socon schools with schollies. Yes?

[carney2]

Also I was able to confirm that Artim is back for 2009, and that there indeed are two more names in Lehigh's class of 2013. I'm not at liberty to disclose who they are, but one is a DB/WR, so carney, please adjust your Patsy Rating appropriately. xthumbsupx

Artim was a 2007 recruit and will not count for the 2009 Patsy Ratings. as for updating the ratings, c'mon, LFN, you know better than that. The rule is

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN?

Nothing happens until I get all of the necessary information from a verifiable, reputable source.

[carney2]

I actually heard it from a coach at your crosstown rival.....it's about time to just do it. Quit wasting time & energy on AI's & need appls etc....give football schollies & compete with the FCS big boys. Leave the Ivies to themselves. The PL can compete with CAA & Socon schools with schollies. Yes?

No. (In my opinion.)

Layered on to the athletic scholarships - with or without an AI or similar - would be the fact that these student-athletes would be entering a demanding academic environment and would need to have shown some potential for success in areas beyond the football field. No disrespect intended, but the pool of student athletes for Patriot League schools would be far, far smaller than that being culled by large state universities such as UNH, Delaware and Appalachian State. Patriot League football might be played on a higher level with scholarships than without for any number of reasons, but to think that the Patriot League champion would regularly be a Top 10 competitor for the FCS championship game is a stretch. On the other hand, Patriot League teams would be better equipped to play CAA and SoCon schools on a regular basis.

[RichH2]

Great interview LFN, Carney, I think we all agree that athletic aid is not a panacea which will put 2or 3 teams in the top 25 every year. But as Coen pointed out and I imagine it is not too much different over in Pardville we lose kids who want to come and whom we want to scholarship schools. The economy makes that situation worse for many. Combine that with the increase in the east of schools offering full rides the PL is caught in limbo. If the admins do not act within the next few years the PL will go back to being considered Ivy Lite. Likewise the while we get a few from the IL we lose many more than we get. I would like the PL to at least be recognized on the national level and have the opportunity to compete for a Championship. Now, we ,as a conference ,are not competitive.

[colorless raider]

Don't count on it.

You will be gone I fear if we do go.

[carney2]

Great interview LFN, Carney, I think we all agree that athletic aid is not a panacea which will put 2or 3 teams in the top 25 every year. But as Coen pointed out and I imagine it is not too much different over in Pardville we lose kids who want to come and whom we want to scholarship schools. The economy makes that situation worse for many. Combine that with the increase in the east of schools offering full rides the PL is caught in limbo. If the admins do not act within the next few years the PL will go back to being considered Ivy Lite. Likewise the while we get a few from the IL we lose many more than we get. I would like the PL to at least be recognized on the national level and have the opportunity to compete for a Championship. Now, we ,as a conference ,are not competitive.

You and I do not disagree. Previous discussions of this subject, which were pretty extensive, seemed to estimate that the pool of potential recruits for Patriot League schools would go up by (only) about 1/3 with the advent of football scholarships, primarily based on the following:

- Kids who for, for reasons of pride or whatever, just must have a football scholarship. Patriot League grants and "equivalencies" as currently structured just won't cut it, even if they come out exactly the same in terms of dollar expenditures by the family.

- Kids whose family income is high enough to exclude them from full rides (equivalencies) at Patriot League schools. Face it, "free" is everyone's favorite price.

- Kids who are a little off the beaten path for Patriot League recruiters and who would probably never hear of Lehigh or Colgate or Holy Cross without that "football scholarship" carrot being dangled.

No matter what, that kid who is recording C/C- grades, has SATs in the bottom half of all high school seniors, and is 771st in his graduating class of 1,000 is not going to grab a Patriot League diploma no matter how fast he runs the 40 or how much he can bench press. This is a restriction that many other FCS recruiters will not be facing.

In the end, the large state universities and other schools with admissions standards lower than the Patriot League will have a much larger pool of potential recruits. They will have a permanent advantage. Your statement that, even with scholarships, the PL won't be putting many teams in the Top 25 is, I believe, a bit off. Most years we have a team in that 20-25 range without scholarships. Cracking the Top 10 however, on more than an occasional basis, is I believe - and as I said in my immediate previous post - a stretch. We will do better with scholarships, but will not be reaching for the brass ring very often. You said it: not a panacea. Definitely an improvement, however. Definitely will stop the back sliding that many of us see as our future.

[DFW HOYA]

You will be gone I fear if we do go.

Why? Georgetown has no philosophical opposition on scholarships as they do up in Worcester--football, rowing, and sailing are the only three of GU's 29 sports not eligible for athletic scholarships.

That having been said, almost none compete with a full complement of scholarships--even basketball has only 10 on scholarship this year, and depth isn't exactly one of its strong suits down the stretch. Would Georgetown football be any less competitive in the PL with 15 scholarships? Probably not.

But in this depression...oops, "recession", the PL presidents aren't risk takers and aren't going to rock the boat if it means losing their invite to the box seats at the Ivy League football tour.

[colorless raider]

Why? Georgetown has no philosophical opposition on scholarships as they do up in Worcester--football, rowing, and sailing are the only three of GU's 29 sports not eligible for athletic scholarships.

That having been said, almost none compete with a full complement of scholarships--even basketball has only 10 on scholarship this year, and depth isn't exactly one of its strong suits down the stretch. Would Georgetown football be any less competitive in the PL with 15 scholarships? Probably not.

But in this depression...oops, "recession", the PL presidents aren't risk takers and aren't going to rock the boat if it means losing their invite to the box seats at the Ivy League football tour.

G'town's sailing team has about the same profile as football so if the PL goes-and it may well not-G'town is not going scholarship. Spend the money on the field.

[ngineer]

You and I do not disagree. Previous discussions of this subject, which were pretty extensive, seemed to estimate that the pool of potential recruits for Patriot League schools would go up by (only) about 1/3 with the advent of football scholarships, primarily based on the following:

- Kids who for, for reasons of pride or whatever, just must have a football scholarship. Patriot League grants and "equivalencies" as currently structured just won't cut it, even if they come out exactly the same in terms of dollar expenditures by the family.

- Kids whose family income is high enough to exclude them from full rides (equivalencies) at Patriot League schools. Face it, "free" is everyone's favorite price.

- Kids who are a little off the beaten path for Patriot League recruiters and who would probably never hear of Lehigh or Colgate or Holy Cross without that "football scholarship" carrot being dangled.

No matter what, that kid who is recording C/C- grades, has SATs in the bottom half of all high school seniors, and is 771st in his graduating class of 1,000 is not going to grab a Patriot League diploma no matter how fast he runs the 40 or how much he can bench press. This is a restriction that many other FCS recruiters will not be facing.

In the end, the large state universities and other schools with admissions standards lower than the Patriot League will have a much larger pool of potential recruits. They will have a permanent advantage. Your statement that, even with scholarships, the PL won't be putting many teams in the Top 25 is, I believe, a bit off. Most years we have a team in that 20-25 range without scholarships. Cracking the Top 10 however, on more than an occasional basis, is I believe - and as I said in my immediate previous post - a stretch. We will do better with scholarships, but will not be reaching for the brass ring very often. You said it: not a panacea. Definitely an improvement, however. Definitely will stop the back sliding that many of us see as our future.

You nailed it pretty good. No one wants to become an Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. Nor can we due to the smaller pool of eligible students. However by using true athletic scholarships we will be more competitive and be able to challenge and beat these big schools on a more regular basis, as opposed to the occasional upset. Villanova's handling of Colgate and us last year should have been a real marker for the PL officials.

[RichH2]

The slide into mediocrity for Lehigh and for the PL is my greatest concern. Honed no doubt from my time at Lehigh in the 60s. Down is much easier and quicker than climbing back up.

[Franks Tanks]

You nailed it pretty good. No one wants to become an Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, JMU, etc. Nor can we due to the smaller pool of eligible students. However by using true athletic scholarships we will be more competitive and be able to challenge and beat these big schools on a more regular basis, as opposed to the occasional upset. Villanova's handling of Colgate and us last year should have been a real marker for the PL officials.

Right-- William & Mary and Richmond compete well while maintaining their academic standards. Richmond is coming off a NC, but thet are not the type of program that will be there every year. I believe it is reasonable for PL schools to compete equally as well as Bill & Mary, Richmond, Wofford, Furman and any other more academically oriented FCS schools.

[Fordham]

You and I do not disagree. Previous discussions of this subject, which were pretty extensive, seemed to estimate that the pool of potential recruits for Patriot League schools would go up by (only) about 1/3 with the advent of football scholarships, primarily based on the following:


only 33% pool increase? Imo that would be a huge increase.

[carney2]

only 33% pool increase? Imo that would be a huge increase.

I'm not sure that you're right. I'm not sure that you're wrong. The 1/3 number is what I remember from previous posts - and I memory isn't what it used to be, and it never was.

[DFW HOYA]

G'town's sailing team has about the same profile as football so if the PL goes-and it may well not-G'town is not going scholarship. Spend the money on the field.

The sailing alumni would differ--they've won six national team titles this decade.

[colorless raider]

Way to go Hoya sailors. I was not aware of that.xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

Carney, I think I recall that I used to remember much better than now. But, I do recall the 1/3 increase post as being an estimate based upon the potential pool of qualified students. How valid? I have no idea except that I do know that Lehigh does lose kids each year to Nova,etc. withLehigh being their 1st choice but our offer could not compete with a full ride at another good school.While we do win some , we all need to win more of those and scholarships are the only way to do so. I remain hopeful but sanguine about schollies any time soon.

[ngineer]

Way to go Hoya sailors. I was not aware of that.xthumbsupx

Rocks float??xconfusedxxeekx;):D

[RichH2]

But HOYAS clearly float rather well