Patriot League Recruiting Ratings - Lehigh

[carney2]

LEHIGH = 70

QUALITY = 26: The recruiting class to beat in the Patriot League. 11 rated recruits (42% of the class) vs. 13 (48%) in 2008 and 10 (34%) in 2007. 7 of the 11 rated stars from one or the other recruiting services rather than the questionable “rated only” from Rivals. There are two of the rare double-doubles in this group (2 stars from each of the recruiting services) and these two could be a lethal combination for Patriot League opponents down the road, as they are a seemingly perfectly matched QB – WR combo.

CLASS SIZE = 5: 26 recruits

DISTRIBUTION = 9: At least one player at each position. It should be noted that there is a much needed kicker in the group, and he is rated.

SPEED = 13

TRIGGER = 2: As noted above this class includes a double-double QB. (It should also be noted that this makes 4 double-double QBs recruited into the Patriot League [so far] within the past 2 years.)

JUMBO = 5: 4 OLs, 3 @ 270+ and 4DLs, 2 @ 250+

NEEDS = 10:

RB = 3 (of 5): 2 RB recruits, one a record setting 1-star from a small school in PA. The Committee debated whether more Patsy Points should be awarded here, but finally decided that with only 2 recruits there isn’t much room for error, and the rated recruit, while intriguing and promising, amassed his record yardage against questionable competition and was completely ignored by Rivals.
DB = 4 (of 4): 4 DB recruits; 2 rated.
WR = 3 (of 3): 4 WR recruits, 2 rated, and mostly tall and fast. The double-double from CA appears to put this group over the top.

THE COMMITTEE’S ADJUSTMENTS = 0

Even at the end there was a debate as to whether or not to throw in one more point for RB, but the decision was that the Lehigh folks shouldn’t get greedy.

Here’s where we stand:

1. 70 - Lehigh
2. 55 - Lafayette
3. 35 - Fordham

[Lehigh Football Nation]

xlolx We won't get greedy Carney. Hard to disagree with your assessments of our class - although when you lead with "the recruiting class to beat in the Patriot League", what's not to love?

I added my analysis of Lehigh's incoming class here (including as many video links as I could find):

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/02/lehigh-announces-class-of-2013.html

More seriously, I've been looking at Colgate's and HCs classes with great interest. I think one or both might give Lehigh a run for its money. And I also think G'Town's and Bucknell's are much improved over years past, though I'll leave that to the self-proclaimed non-expert Carney as to whether it's true or not.

[crusader11]

Appreciate your efforts Carney, but how much can we really look into your assessments? I mean, you go off of Scout/Rival times and stats, and newspaper articles. I'm willing to bet you probably have not seen any of these kids play, maybe a few here and there. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading your ratings of these classes, but I just have to question the accuracy/validity of them. You do your best with the limited resources you have, and no one could probably do it better, but without watching film on these recruits or seeing them play in person, one really cannot judge on how good they are.

Keep it up though, I enjoy it. Just don't think it is too accurate.

[carney2]

I enjoy it. Just don't think it is too accurate.

I was worried there for a minute that you are yet another that is taking this way too seriously. Those final 10 words, though, give me hope. You're getting the hang of it.

[ngineer]

"To the moon, Alice! To the moon!" :D

[Ken_Z]

Just don't think it is too accurate.

author = carney --> redundant statement.

looking forward to Bucknell's annual ranking at the bottom of the league, although it looks like Fordham is giving us a good run for the money.

[LehighFan11]

author = carney --> redundant statement.

looking forward to Bucknell's annual ranking at the bottom of the league, although it looks like Fordham is giving us a good run for the money.

You expect Bucknell to be high on recruiting rankings when they finish close to the bottom of the league every year?

[RichH2]

Ah, Carney some of them are starting to get it. nice review, as usual. Started compiling some info on last 2 classes , who started ,played , etc. Figure it will come in handy come June and July.

[Ken_Z]

You expect Bucknell to be high on recruiting rankings when they finish close to the bottom of the league every year?

no. these were two independent thoughts.

first a cheap shot at carney as required by our contract on message board interaction

second, an expectation that we will come in low in the rankings yet again this year.

however, someday we will once again beat Lehigh, and i will rejoice that the world is as it should be if only for one day.

[Fordham]

All this time I thought scout and rivals were paying monthly subscription fees to carney! :p

[MDFAN]

no. these were two independent thoughts.

first a cheap shot at carney as required by our contract on message board interaction

second, an expectation that we will come in low in the rankings yet again this year.

however, someday we will once again beat Lehigh, and i will rejoice that the world is as it should be if only for one day.

I say we go ahead and make 2009, 2010 and 2011!!!!! Isn't this the year of the Bison?

[colorless raider]

So far i agree with the order of Carney's rankings if not the numerical grades. I can't wait for our ivy oriented compilance dean to release Colgate's list. What a pain in the ass.

[LUHawker]

I know that this is a best effort by Carney and not a definitive conclusion on any of the recruiting classes, but it is at least very encouraging to see Lehigh doing well. Not only this year, but the prior three (?) years of the rankings as well.

Carney, can you post the rankings for each school for the past ranked years? I think Lehigh has been at #2 or #3 for each. Thanks.

Despite the claims of several posters on the Lafayette board, it appears that there has been a gradual decline in the LC recruiting ranking. Hard to fathom given the impressive upgrade in facilities recently. Is the bloom off the rose with Frank?

[breezy]

I certainly appreciate Carney's efforts on these recruiting scores, but I'd like to see a cumulative score for the past two or three years (but do you then deduct points for players who are no longer on the roster?) as well as some effort to see if players who earned points as recruits have justified their points by their performance during their careers.

But I realize Carney probably has some other things to occupy his time.

[carney2]

I certainly appreciate Carney's efforts on these recruiting scores, but I'd like to see a cumulative score for the past two or three years (but do you then deduct points for players who are no longer on the roster?) as well as some effort to see if players who earned points as recruits have justified their points by their performance during their careers.

But I realize Carney probably has some other things to occupy his time.

Actually, it will not be difficult. I'll start throwing it in with the next school that announces. The problem is however, that the numbers are not strictly comparable because the scoring system is different each year as The Committee refines its technique. The biggest single change is that Needs were not part of the calculation in year one.

Oh yeah, since this is about recruiting and not retention, and because it would be a huge pain in the posterior, there will not be any adjustments for players no longer on the roster.

We hope to see a lot more of this at the end of the 2009 season because there will by then be enough information to start looking back at these recruiting classes.

[Fordham]

Actually, it will not be difficult. I'll start throwing it in with the next school that announces. The problem is however, that the numbers are not strictly comparable because the scoring system is different each year as The Committee refines its technique. The biggest single change is that Needs were not part of the calculation in year one.

Oh yeah, since this is about recruiting and not retention, and because it would be a huge pain in the posterior, there will not be any adjustments for players no longer on the roster.

We hope to see a lot more of this at the end of the 2009 season because there will by then be enough information to start looking back at these recruiting classes.
It would be interesting to see something year over year like that. Particularly when it comes to how the All-PL teams match up with how they were ranked coming in.

More than anything it's a fun exercise and you put a heckuva lot more time & effort into it than I would ever dream of doing, so thanks for your work here.

[carney2]

I know that this is a best effort by Carney and not a definitive conclusion on any of the recruiting classes, but it is at least very encouraging to see Lehigh doing well. Not only this year, but the prior three (?) years of the rankings as well.

Carney, can you post the rankings for each school for the past ranked years? I think Lehigh has been at #2 or #3 for each. Thanks.

Despite the claims of several posters on the Lafayette board, it appears that there has been a gradual decline in the LC recruiting ranking. Hard to fathom given the impressive upgrade in facilities recently. Is the bloom off the rose with Frank?

As I said in my prior post, The Committee will begin to show some prior year ratings with the next school that announces.

At the risk of airing some dirty laundry I will give a personal response to your comments/questions about Lafayette recruiting. These are, by the way, opinions that are getting me battered from here to there by my fellow Pard alumni on the Lafayette board, so take them with the proverbial grain of salt.

After what the ratings indicated was a strong recruiting class in 2007, the 2008 group did not fare well in the Patsy Ratings. (Some Lafayette posters that I respect take issue and say that it was a strong class, so...) I was very disappointed in the 2008 group and did not hide my feeling that someone really fumbled the ball, given that the new facilities were supposed to attract recruits like a bank account attracts Bernie Madoff. Frank stated that he closed (signed) 75% of the kids who visited. The obvious retort is that the right kids may not have visited, and that maybe, just maybe, a certain group got a little complacent sipping lattes in their shiny new Taj Mafootball or (see below). Who knows.

The current Lafayette recruiting class has a very strong core group - the equal of Lehigh's and probably any of the classes yet to be announced, in my opinion. The problem they have is the numbers: only 18 with the recent addition of the O-lineman from Philadelphia. If Frank had those 8 extra recruits to give him the same number as Andy Coen, and with a rated kid or two in there, Lehigh just might not be leading this derby, and this class would not have some of the holes that (only I, apparently) perceive. Frankly, I think there are some external (color that financial) pressures being applied here, and that, if true, would not bode well for the future of the program. That is my personal opinion and I have nothing to support it other than an unreliable sixth sense.

[ngineer]

At our level of football, I have always said that while facilities have their place and importance, they will not, in most cases, be the determinative factor in a student/athlete deciding where he is going to matriculate. Even back in 'my day' when we had the horrible dregs of Taylor gym, that didn't phase me in the least when I was recruited. It was the overall value of the education, itself; the 'gut' sense of feeling 'at home' with the coaches and players; and the sense that I belonged there and would have a decent chance of playing. In the 'close call' between two equally attractive alternatives, the facilities can come into play but even then only if there is marked difference. I doubt there is one player who commited to Lafayette because they have a jumbo-tron. They are there because of the quality of the people and education they expect to get.

[DFW HOYA]

At our level of football, I have always said that while facilities have their place and importance, they will not, in most cases, be the determinative factor in a student/athlete deciding where he is going to matriculate.

Perhaps, but there are a fair number of recruits each year which dismiss places like Georgetown and Northeastern from the start because of its facilities, even before the recruiting process starts. It's not the determining factor because a lot of recruits never go far enough along to even consider it.

[carney2]

At our level of football, I have always said that while facilities have their place and importance, they will not, in most cases, be the determinative factor in a student/athlete deciding where he is going to matriculate. Even back in 'my day' when we had the horrible dregs of Taylor gym, that didn't phase me in the least when I was recruited. It was the overall value of the education, itself; the 'gut' sense of feeling 'at home' with the coaches and players; and the sense that I belonged there and would have a decent chance of playing. In the 'close call' between two equally attractive alternatives, the facilities can come into play but even then only if there is marked difference. I doubt there is one player who commited to Lafayette because they have a jumbo-tron. They are there because of the quality of the people and education they expect to get.

I have no statistics, but based on some of the comments we see at Lafayette and the great "closing" rate after the kids have seen the facilities, I'd be very surprised if you are not wrong. That's what makes the Lafayette overall success rate so perplexing. He _ _, even the non-athletes demand the best workout and social facilities before they will commit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think facilities play a huge part. Case in point:

http://football.dailyherald.com/story/?id=273308&src=290


Walls made his visit to Drake earlier this month and was sold. He picked Drake over Wheaton College.

"I really bought into coach (Chris) Creighton's vision," Walls said. "I see what he has done over at Wabash, I think that is something that I want to be part of.

"The facilities are awesome," Walls said. "They hosted the national Division I track meet. I hung out with some of the guys on overnight and showed me what it's like to be there, went to a basketball game, it was really fun. I really connected with some of the guys."

Also, recruiting stories like this demonstrate why schools like Drake are D-I non-scholarship rather than D-III. Their D-I facilities in track (host of national track meets) and men's basketball team, it was perceived, gave them an unfair advantage over other D-III schools when it came to recruiting. Dayton has a similar advantage when it comes to their multi-million dollar basketball arena and sports support staff, etc.

[RichH2]

Carney, I am trying to assemble as best as I can a follow up on recruits for all schools,
so a baseline database can be started from which you can build your yr to yr rankings. Give us something to do May thru July, assuming GU announces by May

[carney2]

Carney, I am trying to assemble as best as I can a follow up on recruits for all schools,
so a baseline database can be started from which you can build your yr to yr rankings. Give us something to do May thru July, assuming GU announces by May

Thanks. By May I will have 3 years worth, but it is in no way "assembled" or organized.

[RichH2]

I am at the post it stage. Have them stuck everywhere. My wife has concluded that I have finally gone too far and should seriously consider unretiring and getting out of her house for 10 or 12 hours a day.

[colorless raider]

You too? If I was only computer savvy.

[RichH2]

Yup, I still haven't figured out links. But what the hell I make the best gin &tonic in the Northeast

[ngineer]

Found out tonight that Lehigh has 27 and not 26 as originally reported. Not sure who the late signee is; however, also learned, or maybe he is counted as 27, it that Travis Artim, a highly prized recruit two years ago, but who left school this past year, has re-enrolled and will be back on the team. As a freshman, Artim saw some playing time at WR. Very good speed and quickness, though on the small side, like Mike Fitzgerald.
Annual awards dinner tonight was excellent. No question that beating that school "down the road" does wonders for the winter. Many underclassmen receiving outstanding awards per position which reminds us that we have excellent quality returning.

[carney2]

Found out tonight that Lehigh has 27 and not 26 as originally reported. Not sure who the late signee is; however, also learned, or maybe he is counted as 27, it that Travis Artim, a highly prized recruit two years ago, but who left school this past year, has re-enrolled and will be back on the team. As a freshman, Artim saw some playing time at WR. Very good speed and quickness, though on the small side, like Mike Fitzgerald.
Annual awards dinner tonight was excellent. No question that beating that school "down the road" does wonders for the winter. Many underclassmen receiving outstanding awards per position which reminds us that we have excellent quality returning.

Take a look at the latest Lafayete post or two in this "ratings" game. I need to know

WHERE IS IT WRITTEN?

Also, as far as "Class Size" awards for Patsy Points, no difference between 26 and 27.

[RichH2]

Artrim nice kid glad he's back. Don't think he would be listed as a recruit. I am still hoping for a FB

[RichH2]

Rumor has class upto 29?? Anyone have any confirmation?

[ngineer]

I heard the same thing, but haven't seen it in any official release. Possible some kids changed their minds, like happened to us a couple years back when we had some 'committees' reneg and go elsewhere (I know one was a big Ohio lineman who went to Holy Cross).

[RichH2]

unconfirmed from Lehigh board (AGS) 29, db/wr from Hill school and 2 other dbs

[LeopardFan04]

unconfirmed from Lehigh board (AGS) 29, db/wr from Hill school and 2 other dbs


As a Hill (assuming we're talking about the same school) alum, I'm curious to see who that is. I wasn't that familiar with this year's team, but I nobody blew me away when I saw them play. :o Quadir Carter did when I saw him play for Hill.

[colorless raider]

As a Hill (assuming we're talking about the same school) alum, I'm curious to see who that is. I wasn't that familiar with this year's team, but I nobody blew me away when I saw them play. :o Quadir Carter did when I saw him play for Hill.

How about Mark Colon?

[LeopardFan04]

Yeah, I remember him. Post-grad, class of '06, I think? That would have been the same class as Travis Mack from Georgetown. I'm not sure how many games I got to that year. I think he year before that was the team with Carter, and as well as a few others that went to FCS schools. Although this year was a down year record-wise, the number of college players seems to have gone up since I was there (graduated 2000).

[RichH2]

Speculation is Korey Jacobs as he is one of few db/wrseniors , co capt of team

[ngineer]

As a Hill (assuming we're talking about the same school) alum, I'm curious to see who that is. I wasn't that familiar with this year's team, but I nobody blew me away when I saw them play. :o Quadir Carter did when I saw him play for Hill.

Interesting. I grew up in the Pottstown area. Pottsgrove schools through 8th grade, then Owen J. Roberts through high school. We scrimmaged The Hill School in August once. Got a kick out of hearing some foreign languages being spoken in the pile!

[LeopardFan04]

Interesting. I grew up in the Pottstown area. Pottsgrove schools through 8th grade, then Owen J. Roberts through high school. We scrimmaged The Hill School in August once. Got a kick out of hearing some foreign languages being spoken in the pile!

I think I knew that! You must have mentioned it in the past. Didn't your dad coach football in Boyertown way back when? I think I remember a post from long ago about that. I went to Boyertown schools from 2nd through 9th grade and then went to Hill.


I believe it about the foreign languages in the huddle. One of my classmates went out for football his first year, because he thought it was soccer. He was born and grew up in Africa. He actually stuck with it though, and became a pretty good tight end...xnodx

[ngineer]

I think I knew that! You must have mentioned it in the past. Didn't your dad coach football in Boyertown way back when? I think I remember a post from long ago about that. I went to Boyertown schools from 2nd through 9th grade and then went to Hill.


I believe it about the foreign languages in the huddle. One of my classmates went out for football his first year, because he thought it was soccer. He was born and grew up in Africa. He actually stuck with it though, and became a pretty good tight end...xnodx

Yes, my father coached football and baseball at Boyertown for about 22 years, and then was AD for another 15 before retiring around 1987.

[LU73]

Yes, my father coached football and baseball at Boyertown for about 22 years, and then was AD for another 15 before retiring around 1987.

Well ngineer, now I think you really have revealed your identity. I'm a '69 grad of Boyertown and a '73 grad of Lehigh (not a player, but a fan forever). Now I understand your comments I once read about the '68 Boyertown-Pottstown game.

[LeopardFan04]

Well ngineer, now I think you really have revealed your identity. I'm a '69 grad of Boyertown and a '73 grad of Lehigh (not a player, but a fan forever). Now I understand your comments I once read about the '68 Boyertown-Pottstown game.



Yes, that must be the thread that I remember. I think we had a thread about great finishes or great high school games at some point last offseason...

[LU73]

Yes, that must be the thread that I remember. I think we had a thread about great finishes or great high school games at some point last offseason...

Yes, I recall that thread quite well. I also remember that Boyertown-Pottstown game very well. It was the game where ngineer and I learned that "it's not over until it's over". And we have seen it happen repeatedly at Lehigh games over the years................mostly good finishes, but a few disappointments recently.

[ngineer]

Well ngineer, now I think you really have revealed your identity. I'm a '69 grad of Boyertown and a '73 grad of Lehigh (not a player, but a fan forever). Now I understand your comments I once read about the '68 Boyertown-Pottstown game.

Ha! Yes, that was a game for the ages...I do remember posting about that awhile back.xthumbsupx