"Buyer's Remorse" for Hofstra in CAA?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-sphofstra0203-col,0,3108936.column


Hofstra's CAA future still appears somewhat bleak

Steven Marcus

The 2005-06 season produced a 26-7 record. It put Hofstra in the national spotlight, but for the wrong reason.

Although Hofstra beat George Mason twice - the second time in the CAA Tournament - Mason, in what some considered a nefarious power play by the leadership of the southern-based CAA, was awarded an at-large berth over Hofstra. Mason became the Cinderella team of the NCAA Tournament by reaching the Final Four. Hofstra became a household name in NCAA circles as the team that twice defeated an eventual Final Four team but didn't even make the tournament.

...

Hofstra's basketball problem can be traced back to the administration's ill-conceived notion that its football program would make gains as a conference member in the then-Atlantic 10. It dragged the rest of Hofstra's athletic teams into the CAA, which was teetering on extinction, and basketball has suffered the most.

...

Now, in addition to trying to overcome schools such as Mason and Virginia Commonwealth in the regular season, Hofstra is doomed to playing the CAA Tournament in the Richmond Coliseum, which VCU coach Anthony Grant disingenuously identified as a neutral court. Let's see what CAA leader Northeastern does next month against the pro-VCU fans.

Enough of the CAA. What Hofstra basketball needs is a bailout to a new conference. It is too late to return to the football-less America East, so the A-10 (Massachusetts, Temple, Rhode Island, Xavier) is the logical move. Certainly no guaranteed bid, but it has a much richer history of multiple bids, and the opponents would pack the house, something Hofstra has not had with regularity since its last NCAA appearance.

If this were to happen - if Hofstra were to pull a "Richmond" - would they still want to be in the CAA in football? Or would they go elsewhere? What about Northeastern - would they follow them out the door?

[mcveyrl]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-sphofstra0203-col,0,3108936.column



If this were to happen - if Hofstra were to pull a "Richmond" - would they still want to be in the CAA in football? Or would they go elsewhere? What about Northeastern - would they follow them out the door?

Why does the article call America East football-less but not the A-10. Isn't the A-10 also "football-less"? That ruins a lot of credibility there (I only read LFN's blurb).

I think Hofstra could move to the A-10 and still be welcome to play football in the CAA. But, if the CAA is looking to shrink their football conference in the future, they'll be one of the first to go, IMO.

[ur2k]

The a10 is the logical move? The a10 isn't looking for any more members. It's already at 14.

The writer may have just thrown anything out there since this article really has no facts behind it - why not the Big East?

[danefan]

Why does the article call America East football-less but not the A-10. Isn't the A-10 also "football-less"? That ruins a lot of credibility there (I only read LFN's blurb).

I think Hofstra could move to the A-10 and still be welcome to play football in the CAA. But, if the CAA is looking to shrink their football conference in the future, they'll be one of the first to go, IMO.

Thats exactly what I was about to type.

Moving the A-10 does what for Hofstra?

[mcveyrl]

The a10 is the logical move? The a10 isn't looking for any more members. It's already at 14.

The writer may have just thrown anything out there since this article really has no facts behind it - why not the Big East?

That's another thought I had, is whether the A-10 would even be interested in Hofstra.

[GannonFan]

Kind of a silly article.

First of all, it's revisionist history - Hofstra wasn't screwed over by George Mason and by the southern parts of the CAA that year George Mason went to the Final Four. Hofstra finished behind George Mason that year in the standings, Hofstra had a worse RPI (61st versus Mason's 23rd), a worse OOC schedule (174 versus Mason's 23), and a worse SOS overall (122 versus 93). No one in their right mind would've put Hofstra in before George Mason that year - the hubub was why didn't the CAA get 3 teams in the tournament that year, and Hofstra was clearly the 3rd team (UNC Wilmington won the auto, and Mason was the only at large). Mason getting in didn't really screw Hofstra one way or the other. That's completely fabricated stuff right there.

And as for where Hofstra wants to go, like others have said, the A-10 isn't looking for more teams and besides, they don't have football. If Hofstra isn't concerned about their football program any longer, then that could be reasonable, but they would still need to get past the idea that the A-10 isn't necessarily looking for teams.

[89Hen]

FWIW, Steven Marcus is a local hack IMO. I wish I had the articles he wrote a couple years ago railing on I-AA in general. He is from Long Island and knows nothing of the scene past LI. xcoffeex

I even traded e-mails with him telling him as much. Again, wish I had them to share.

[danefan]

FWIW, Steven Marcus is a local hack IMO. I wish I had the articles he wrote a couple years ago railing on I-AA in general. He is from Long Island and knows nothing of the scene past LI. xcoffeex

I even traded e-mails with him telling him as much. Again, wish I had them to share.

The fact that he dislikes FCS football is apparent in this article:


Hofstra's basketball problem can be traced back to the administration's ill-conceived notion that its football program would make gains as a conference member in the then-Atlantic 10

I read that as him saying that no matter what, the basketball team has nothing to gain from the football team's associations in any FCS conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the part that gets me the most is that the CAA was "teetering on extinction" when they took on Hofstra. That's an outright lie. The CAA went out and got Hofstra in order to make a power play to get A-10 football to unite as a unit under the CAA banner instead of allowing the northern schools to break apart and form their own conference - and it succeeded perfectly. When they got Hofstra, I saw it as a very aggressive move by an upcoming mover and shaker in the college landscape - not the desperate actions of a dying conference.

And the CAA has grown in leaps and bounds as a result - they got a team in the Final Four in basketball and have become a huge force in FCS football. Ill-conceived? Hardly. If the writer has some numbers showing how the CAA is teetering on the brink of financial collapse, I'd love to see them, but it's my impression that the CAA is one of the best positioned conferences anywhere.

Having said all that, it IS true that the leadership of the CAA has been doing a lot more looking southward than northward.

[bostonspider]

Well, after UR, ECU and AU all left, the CAA was not in good shape, and you could say that they were "teetering on extinction", with only VCU, ODU, JMU, UNCW, GMU, W&M. Therefore the additions of UD, DU, HU and TU stabilized the league greatly. Perhaps you are thinking more of the later addition of Northeastern and also Georgia State

[henfan]

Anyone who's followed Marcus for any length of time, understands that he has a decidely anti-CAA agenda for HU. Since before HU moved to the CAA and back to the AEC days, Marcus has written an annual diatribe on why HU should be in the A-10 for all sports.

What's important to remember is that this is Marcus' opinion and wish for HU, not actual reality. Pikers like Marcus and those with no vested interest in HU sports can afford to make these myopic, ridiculous kinds of comments. OTOH, HU has to concern itself the financial realities of not having a home for all of its sports programs. I'd imagine the fact that they've "been there, done that" would lead them to be more cautious than Marcus, in his infinite wisdom, cares to understand.

[henfan]

Well, after UR, ECU and AU all left, the CAA was not in good shape, and you could say that they were "teetering on extinction", with only VCU, ODU, JMU, UNCW, GMU, W&M. Therefore the additions of UD, DU, HU and TU stabilized the league greatly. Perhaps you are thinking more of the later addition of Northeastern and also Georgia State

You're right. On that point and little else, Marcus was correct.

In fact, the CAA was on the verge of losing several NCAA bids and even agreed to a 2000 plan that would have seen the conference absorbed by the AEC. Of course, the AEC nixed that plan, leading HU, DU, UD and TU to vamoose to the CAA.

[jmufan999]

what a jacka** article.

ok, you want out of the CAA for bball? go, see ya. but if you go, we're kicking you out for football. you (now i guess i'm talking to hofstra in general) are hurting our strength of schedule anyway. we MAY need to condense the football league in a few years anyway, so if you want out, sayonara.

[henfan]

Having said all that, it IS true that the leadership of the CAA has been doing a lot more looking southward than northward.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. The conference didn't have to look anywhere to find two of its own members with FB startups. The fact that they were in the southern half of the footprint was purely coincidental. If Drexel or George Mason were to do the impossible and find the funding for FB start-ups, they'd be admitted to the CAA as well.

Since assuming control of the FB conference from the A-10, the CAA hasn't had to 'look' in any direction. If the conference were to ever seek expansion members, there's no reason to believe that schools in the north wouldn't get the same consideration as those in the south.

[elon77]

And they lost at home to ODU in the NIT with a chance to play the next game in The Garden. ODU should have been the 3rd team, not the Pride.

[andy7171]

Hofstra could join Stoney Brook in the Big South! xlolx

This writer is a tool.

[mainejeff]

Why does the article call America East football-less but not the A-10. Isn't the A-10 also "football-less"? That ruins a lot of credibility there (I only read LFN's blurb).

I think Hofstra could move to the A-10 and still be welcome to play football in the CAA. But, if the CAA is looking to shrink their football conference in the future, they'll be one of the first to go, IMO.

Agreed.

Hofstra and Northeastern are both in no man's land now.......it will be interesting to see what happens to football programs and where their athletic programs eventually end up.

[mainejeff]

Whether the article is a piece of crap or not.......the fact remains that Hofstra (and Northeastern) are spending a boatload of money and receiving very little in return for their investment. I know that CAA (basketball) fans like to pump up their self-image, but I don't think that Hofstra or Northeastern fans have really been that enamored with CAA teams coming to their home gyms. How many more fans are they drawing now that they are in the CAA? How much more donor and sponsorship revenue are their programs receiving? Are former AE basketball powers Hofstra, Delaware and Drexel REALLY happy that they haven't been to the NCAA tourney in 7 or 8 years (or more)???

[89Hen]

Are former AE basketball powers Hofstra, Delaware and Drexel REALLY happy that they haven't been to the NCAA tourney in 7 or 8 years (or more)???
You can drop Delaware from your question. Brey leaving UD had more to do with the current state of UD bball than UD leaving the AE. xpeacex

[henfan]

Obviously, HU & NU believe their moves to the CAA have been valuable, a positive ROI, or else they wouldn't have made the decisions to leave the AEC in the first place. Both schools understood what CAA competition would mean for them financially. Alas, these are huge institutional decisions that were not made on a whim or with a single sport in mind.

Oddly, these are moves that neither school (or UD, DU or TU) would have preferred to make. The AEC's utter lack of direction and leadership left them little choice. Staying on the AEC's rutterless ship just wasn't an option.

And 89's right re UD MBB. Few in Newark pine for the days of AEC competition, though many regret not having a coach the quality of Mike Brey or Steve Steinwedel around.

[mainejeff]

You can drop Delaware from your question. Brey leaving UD had more to do with the current state of UD bball than UD leaving the AE. xpeacex

How many years has it been since he left? xconfusedx

[mainejeff]

Obviously, HU & NU believe their moves to the CAA have been valuable, a positive ROI, or else they wouldn't have made the decisions to leave the AEC in the first place. Both schools understood what CAA competition would mean for them financially. Alas, these are huge institutional decisions that were not made on a whim or with a single sport in mind.

Oddly, these are moves that neither school (or UD, DU or TU) would have preferred to make. The AEC's utter lack of direction and leadership left them little choice. Staying on the AEC's rutterless ship just wasn't an option.

And 89's right re UD MBB. Few in Newark pine for the days of AEC competition, though many regret not having a coach the quality of Mike Brey or Steve Steinwedel around.

Blah blah blah.......xrolleyesx

Those institutional decisions were made pretty quickly considering that there was no guaranteed revenue stream (ie. TV money), no glamorous "name" brand schools (Big East/ACC types), and most importantly, no eye toward the future costs of moving ALL athletic teams to a new conference that stretched from Boston to Atlanta (or Long Island to Wilmington in Hofstra's case). I can understand Hofstra's move a bit more than Northeastern's move.......that one is just puzzling to me.

As far as the AE 15/16 team thing......that would have been a disaster.

[89Hen]

How many years has it been since he left? xconfusedx
Count the losing seasons. They made a bad hire to replace him so that chewed up a lot of years. The damage was done and it's still going to be a couple more before they get back on track. I'm not sure the current coach is the answer, but he's a big improvement over the previous. xpeacex

[89Hen]

BTW, Bobby Knight is looking to get back into coaching. He almost came to UD to replace Brey, maybe he'd consider it again. xoopsx

[Jackman]

Hofstra's only route into the A10 would be if Fordham was punted. Which is a longshot, but not inconceivable, because Fordham has crapped the bed since joining the A10 in every way short of a recruiting scandal, and the conference isn't happy with their facilities. Fordham could also leave voluntarily and join the Patriot for reasons of competitiveness. They've fared poorly in almost every sport in the A10.

I don't believe the CAA is in a position to strongarm anyone in football quite yet. Without Hofstra, they would only have 5 full football members until ODU and G-State arrive. Then they have to worry about G-State not staying in FCS for long and Northeastern maybe calling it quits (especially if the rest of the North division leaves). The risk-to-reward ratio of "making an example" of Hofstra isn't favorable.

But of course this is all fiction. The conditions that would allow Hofstra to move to the A10 simply don't exist right now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oddly, these are moves that neither school (or UD, DU or TU) would have preferred to make. The AEC's utter lack of direction and leadership left them little choice. Staying on the AEC's rutterless ship just wasn't an option....

Towson's move to the CAA was a no-brainer. Like UD, they were the southern outpost of the AE and didn't really have a travel partner when American joined the PL. Add to that the CAA was dying to have a football conference and that's all Towson really needed (who never really fit in with the PL 'club' in football).

For TU, I think it was a move that worked very, very much to their advantage, and the leadership of the AE had little or nothing to do with their move.


Those institutional decisions were made pretty quickly considering that there was no guaranteed revenue stream (ie. TV money), no glamorous "name" brand schools (Big East/ACC types), and most importantly, no eye toward the future costs of moving ALL athletic teams to a new conference that stretched from Boston to Atlanta (or Long Island to Wilmington in Hofstra's case). I can understand Hofstra's move a bit more than Northeastern's move.......that one is just puzzling to me..

It's something I sure puzzled about at the time, and still do. But at that time Georgia State football was simply something that wasn't even a gleam in anybody's eye. I think travel costs for basketball are seen as pretty much negligible, but football is another matter entirely.

[henfan]

I can understand Hofstra's move a bit more than Northeastern's move.......that one is just puzzling to me.

As far as the AE 15/16 team thing......that would have been a disaster.

Well, that's your opinion but it was not UMaine's opinion at the time. They were among the majority supporting AEC expansion. It only seems like a bad idea when you have no other options and your school is located in an actual (not figurative) no man's land.

It's not important whether you or Steve Marcus understand or agree with HU's (or NU's) decision to move to the CAA. So long as HU and NU are satisfied, that's all that matters.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hofstra's only route into the A10 would be if Fordham was punted. Which is a longshot, but not inconceivable, because Fordham has crapped the bed since joining the A10 in every way short of a recruiting scandal, and the conference isn't happy with their facilities. Fordham could also leave voluntarily and join the Patriot for reasons of competitiveness. They've fared poorly in almost every sport in the A10.

I don't believe the CAA is in a position to strongarm anyone in football quite yet. Without Hofstra, they would only have 5 full football members until ODU and G-State arrive. Then they have to worry about G-State not staying in FCS for long and Northeastern maybe calling it quits (especially if the rest of the North division leaves). The risk-to-reward ratio of "making an example" of Hofstra isn't favorable.

True - however, it's worth mentioning that if Fordham is expelled from the A-10, the Patriot League would do anything to welcome them in all sports - and then would need another team to make ten all-sport members, and Northeastern would then become a prime candidate for that 10th team.

This, of course, doesn't help Hofstra at all - who would then be jumping into the A-10 with a pretty hefty travel budget of its own (something folks tend to forget) and would then need a new home for its football team. The PL rebuffed Hofstra in the past, so they're not an instant fit in the PL. The NEC is limited scholarship. That leaves the inappropriately-named Big South as their best option - not exactly a great course of action for the football team.

[henfan]

Towson's move to the CAA was a no-brainer. Like UD, they were the southern outpost of the AE and didn't really have a travel partner when American joined the PL. Add to that the CAA was dying to have a football conference and that's all Towson really needed (who never really fit in with the PL 'club' in football).

For TU, I think it was a move that worked very, very much to their advantage, and the leadership of the AE had little or nothing to do with their move.

It's something I sure puzzled about at the time, and still do. But at that time Georgia State football was simply something that wasn't even a gleam in anybody's eye. I think travel costs for basketball are seen as pretty much negligible, but football is another matter entirely.

A couple of things.

1) AU's CAA membership was not concurrent with TU or UD's CAA membership. They weren't ever, nor could they have ever been, a 'travel partner' with TU.

2) CAA hasn't utilized 'travel partner' system for as long as UD & TU have belonged to the conference.

3) TU moved with UD, DU & HU because it made economic and institutional sense, especially with so many CAA schools within driving distance. In 2000, Patriot League TU was also trying to position its FB program for possible alignment with what was then A-10 FB schools.

4) Pretty much anyone with any insight understood at the time of their admittance into the CAA that GSU would be making a serious effort to begin playing D-I FB. It was widely discussed on message boards at the time.

[mainejeff]

It only seems like a bad idea when you have no other options and your school is located in an actual (not figurative) no man's land.

Maine had another option......and it has worked out pretty good for them. xpeacex


So long as HU and NU are satisfied, that's all that matters.

But are they???...........xeyebrowx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Towson's move to the CAA was a no-brainer. Like UD, they were the southern outpost of the AE and didn't really have a travel partner when American joined the PL. Add to that the CAA was dying to have a football conference and that's all Towson really needed (who never really fit in with the PL 'club' in football).

For TU, I think it was a move that worked very, very much to their advantage, and the leadership of the AE had little or nothing to do with their move.



I've got to disagree with that! You've got to remember that this is a multiple step process. The first event is the defections from the CAA leaving them short on members. The initial resolution was for all the remaining CAA teams (except UNCW IIRC) to join the AEC. At this time Delaware, Towson, Drexel and Hofstra are all sports member of America East. This merger would have resulted in America East taking over sponsorship of the A-10 football league since they would have had eight football members (Maine, UNH, NU, HU, UD, TU, JMU and W&M) within their all sports membership. CAA Football isn't even a pipe dream at this point in time.

The AEC leadership didn't make this happen. Delaware wants to be in an all sports league that sponsors football which I surely can't fault them for. Delaware leads an effort for TU, Drexel and HU to joint them in the CAA and develop long term goals of sponsoring football. Towson was Delaware's travel partner in the AE. Of course it was a no brainer for them to follow Delaware's lead. Prior to this I had heard no complaints or even grumblings from Towson about AE Membership. They only sought membership in the CAA because maintaining association with Delaware made incredible sense.

Down the road, the A-10 adds Towson helping the resurrected CAA get closer to their goal of sponsoring football by having five teams. A little later the CAA invites Northeastern into the fold and they now have half the football teams in the A-10. The other six are in multiple conferences and the CAA has the numbers to wrest control. The A-10 leadership fails to provide a solution where they retained the AQ and the non-CAA schools want to continue the 12 team association.

America East's failure to provide a football solution is directly responsible for Towson leaving and joining the CAA for all sports.

BTW, you lost me on your comment about Towson not having a travel partner in the PL when American left? Wasn't that what drove Towson to America East for all sports membership back in the 90's? I believe Towson joined America East for the 1995-6 Academic Year.

[Jackman]

This, of course, doesn't help Hofstra at all - who would then be jumping into the A-10 with a pretty hefty travel budget of its own (something folks tend to forget) and would then need a new home for its football team.
I don't believe that would be the case, I think they'd still be welcome in CAA football. Think about how each football member would vote. The non-CAA members are going to vote to maintain status quo, with the A10 members having a particular interest in supporting Hofstra. Among the CAA members, Northeastern is going to vote status quo because if all the other northern members break away, they're screwed. That leaves the CAA with a maximum of 6 expulsion votes out of 13 (not counting Hofstra). Granted, it's their conference, but I don't think they're going to risk breaking things up and pushing Northeastern to the brink, just to make a point. Not while Richmond is still welcome.

Again though, this isn't happening, there's no room in the A10 as long as Fordham is still there and they still have 12+ members.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Blah blah blah.......xrolleyesx

Those institutional decisions were made pretty quickly considering that there was no guaranteed revenue stream (ie. TV money), no glamorous "name" brand schools (Big East/ACC types), and most importantly, no eye toward the future costs of moving ALL athletic teams to a new conference that stretched from Boston to Atlanta (or Long Island to Wilmington in Hofstra's case). I can understand Hofstra's move a bit more than Northeastern's move.......that one is just puzzling to me.

As far as the AE 15/16 team thing......that would have been a disaster.

We'll never know for sure, but for argument's sake I'll agree.

What I always fall back on though is that we would have had eight football schools as all sports members within that group. Now if the 15/16 team thing was a disaster, the most logical split would have been football.

Football Group: Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware, Towson, JMU, W&M

Non-Football Group: Vermont, BU, Hartford, Drexel, VCU, ODU, GMU

Albany and Stony Brook may have blended into the football group over time. Just like Binghamton and UMBC could have blended into the non-football group. There could have been an OOC scheduling agreement between the groups to maintain logical basketball rivalries (Delaware-Drexel, UNH-UVM, NU-BU, JMU-GMU, W&M-ODU, etc.).

It very well might have been a disaster, but it was a disaster I could have lived with for a couple of seasons to get to that end result. That was the reason I was in favor of the merger. I figured it would lead to a split over football which IMHO is a very significant factor in terms or administering an athletic department.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The first event is the defections from the CAA leaving them short on members. The initial resolution was for all the remaining CAA teams (except UNCW IIRC) to join the AEC. At this time Delaware, Towson, Drexel and Hofstra are all sports member of America East. This merger would have resulted in America East taking over sponsorship of the A-10 football league since they would have had eight football members (Maine, UNH, NU, HU, UD, TU, JMU and W&M) within their all sports membership. CAA Football isn't even a pipe dream at this point in time.

Like Delaware, Towson would have been the southern outpost in this league and didn't seem like an attractive option to them.

Unlike Delaware, Towson was in the Patriot League in football at this point. They're a state school running cost-containment football while the A-10/AEC is a full-scholarship league. Towson's priorities AT THAT TIME had some overlap with UD, but were hardly as closely in lockstep with UD as you describe.


The AEC leadership didn't make this happen. Delaware wants to be in an all sports league that sponsors football which I surely can't fault them for. Delaware leads an effort for TU, Drexel and HU to joint them in the CAA and develop long term goals of sponsoring football. Towson was Delaware's travel partner in the AE. Of course it was a no brainer for them to follow Delaware's lead. Prior to this I had heard no complaints or even grumblings from Towson about AE Membership. They only sought membership in the CAA because maintaining association with Delaware made incredible sense.

I still think you sell TU short.

TU used to be in the East Coast Conference (along with UD, Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell). When UD went to the America East and the Patriot League started out in the bust-up of the ECC, Towson went on a ill-conceived three-year stint in the Big South before washing up on the shores of America East. They NEVER set out to hook themselves up at the hip with Delaware - otherwise, they would have ditched the Patriot League to join A-10 football in the late 1990s.

TU didn't see a heck of a lot of synergy with binding themselves with UD when they were part of America East/A-10. However, in a SOUTHERN based CAA with games versus UD, VCU, George Mason... that's a heck of a lot more attractive in all sports including football.

Painting this as a "Towson-has-always-been-joined-at-the-hip-with-UD" isn't right.


Down the road, the A-10 adds Towson helping the resurrected CAA get closer to their goal of sponsoring football by having five teams. A little later the CAA invites Northeastern into the fold and they now have half the football teams in the A-10. The other six are in multiple conferences and the CAA has the numbers to wrest control. The A-10 leadership fails to provide a solution where they retained the AQ and the non-CAA schools want to continue the 12 team association.

America East's failure to provide a football solution is directly responsible for Towson leaving and joining the CAA for all sports.

Towson as part of the power play for the CAA to sponsor football worked out masterfully for both Towson and the CAA. But I don't feel like Towson would have been in such a hurry to join an AEC conference. Unlike UD, they were already in a conference with three schools not incredibly far away. It was only when you add the other CAA schools when it becomes a no-brainer.


BTW, you lost me on your comment about Towson not having a travel partner in the PL when American left? Wasn't that what drove Towson to America East for all sports membership back in the 90's? I believe Towson joined America East for the 1995-6 Academic Year.

That's my mistake. Folks correctly pointed out that AU left before Towson showed up. My bad.

[henfan]

But I don't feel like Towson would have been in such a hurry to join an AEC conference. Unlike UD, they were already in a conference with three schools not incredibly far away. It was only when you add the other CAA schools when it becomes a no-brainer.

LFN, Towson was indeed committed to and would have been automatically accepted into the AEC FB league if the expansion plan was approved, at the expiration of their PL contract. In 2000, TU was in the middle of a 3-year affiliate contract with the Patriot. It would have taken the AEC at least one season to transfer control of the A-10 FB league.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Like Delaware, Towson would have been the southern outpost in this league and didn't seem like an attractive option to them.

Unlike Delaware, Towson was in the Patriot League in football at this point. They're a state school running cost-containment football while the A-10/AEC is a full-scholarship league. Towson's priorities AT THAT TIME had some overlap with UD, but were hardly as closely in lockstep with UD as you describe.

Towson WAS the southern most outpost in an all sports America East Conference for five academic years! Based on my involvement with the AE Forums at that time and interaction with administrators at UNH, they sure didn't seem to have any problem with being the southern outpost until Delaware led the defection of the AE-4 to the CAA. (Nothing negative meant toward Delaware.) I didn't think I was describing a "lockstep" relationship, but without UD in the AEC, Towson isn't staying.


I still think you sell TU short.

TU used to be in the East Coast Conference (along with UD, Lehigh, Lafayette and Bucknell). When UD went to the America East and the Patriot League started out in the bust-up of the ECC, Towson went on a ill-conceived three-year stint in the Big South before washing up on the shores of America East. They NEVER set out to hook themselves up at the hip with Delaware - otherwise, they would have ditched the Patriot League to join A-10 football in the late 1990s.

TU didn't see a heck of a lot of synergy with binding themselves with UD when they were part of America East/A-10. However, in a SOUTHERN based CAA with games versus UD, VCU, George Mason... that's a heck of a lot more attractive in all sports including football.

Painting this as a "Towson-has-always-been-joined-at-the-hip-with-UD" isn't right.

Wasn't trying to sell TU short and you're the one who made the "Towson-has-always-been-joined-at-the-hip-with-UD" statement. All I presented was a scenario where it was logical for TU to follow UD's lead from AE to the CAA. And refuting your claim that AE leadership had no impact in their decision.

I still think you're blurring football and all sports affiliation for Towson. I don't remember why Towson didn't join AE when Delaware did. Maybe AE didn't offer membership at that time forcing Towson to the Big South? But within three years they did link up with Delaware in America East, way back in the mid 90's. Football on the other hand at this time is a completely different issue. Their football program was on an entirely different development time line. So I think any synergy with the A-10 at this point is a non-factor because they really weren't a player on the full scholly platform at that time.



Towson as part of the power play for the CAA to sponsor football worked out masterfully for both Towson and the CAA. But I don't feel like Towson would have been in such a hurry to join an AEC conference. Unlike UD, they were already in a conference with three schools not incredibly far away. It was only when you add the other CAA schools when it becomes a no-brainer.

Again, I think you're overlooking the fact that Towson WAS an all sports member of America East. When the 15/16 team merger thing was presented, TU was in the AEC just like Delaware, not in the Big South. You've got to distinguish between all-sports membership and football membership at this time. If America East had taken over administration of the A-10 football league for the 2001 season, I think Towson would have joined almost immediately despite three schools "not incredibly far away". Why wouldn't they have wanted to have their football program in their all sports conference? Especially since they must have already had an inkling that they really weren't wanted by the Patriot League.

[henfan]

But are they???...........xeyebrowx

Aside from wild fan board speculation, what indication have you seen from either Hoftra or Northeastern that would lead you to believe that they are the least bit displeased to be in the CAA?xeyebrowx

Steve Marcus' opinion doesn't count as an indication.

[henfan]

I don't believe that would be the case, I think they'd still be welcome in CAA football.

Not so fast.

Of course none of us are privvy to the details of contractual agreements. Given the conference's history with UR and ECU though, I'd be very surprised if the CAA hasn't already executed agreements with its full members requiring them to play all sports in the conference. As it would be a general membership issue, it might not even be something that could be put to a FB conference vote.

You'd think that would be something Marcus would have investigated to lend at least a shred of credibility to his lamebrained article.

[Go...gate]

This thread is a reminder of how the Patriot League missed the boat on another occasion when it did not admit Hofstra as an all-sports member in the early-mid 1990's. IMO, they would have been a good fit in many ways.

[mainejeff]

We'll never know for sure, but for argument's sake I'll agree.

What I always fall back on though is that we would have had eight football schools as all sports members within that group. Now if the 15/16 team thing was a disaster, the most logical split would have been football.

Football Group: Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware, Towson, JMU, W&M

Non-Football Group: Vermont, BU, Hartford, Drexel, VCU, ODU, GMU

Albany and Stony Brook may have blended into the football group over time. Just like Binghamton and UMBC could have blended into the non-football group. There could have been an OOC scheduling agreement between the groups to maintain logical basketball rivalries (Delaware-Drexel, UNH-UVM, NU-BU, JMU-GMU, W&M-ODU, etc.).

It very well might have been a disaster, but it was a disaster I could have lived with for a couple of seasons to get to that end result. That was the reason I was in favor of the merger. I figured it would lead to a split over football which IMHO is a very significant factor in terms or administering an athletic department.

I agree with you to a point......but I don't think that JMU and W&M would have ever stayed permanently in an all-sports conference with Maine and UNH in it.

[mainejeff]

Aside from wild fan board speculation, what indication have you seen from either Hoftra or Northeastern that would lead you to believe that they are the least bit displeased to be in the CAA?xeyebrowx

Steve Marcus' opinion doesn't count as an indication.

I haven't seen anything that indicates that they are pleased either.

xcoffeex

[Husky Alum]

Whether the article is a piece of crap or not.......the fact remains that Hofstra (and Northeastern) are spending a boatload of money and receiving very little in return for their investment. I know that CAA (basketball) fans like to pump up their self-image, but I don't think that Hofstra or Northeastern fans have really been that enamored with CAA teams coming to their home gyms. How many more fans are they drawing now that they are in the CAA? How much more donor and sponsorship revenue are their programs receiving? Are former AE basketball powers Hofstra, Delaware and Drexel REALLY happy that they haven't been to the NCAA tourney in 7 or 8 years (or more)???

You check the top of the CAA Hoops standings this week? Or the Women's Soccer Standings or the Men's Soccer Standings, or Women's Track?

Right, very little return for our investment. We've been on tv for about 15 hoops games this year. I don't think your Black Bears have been on tv 15 times in the past decade.

The incremental travel costs compared to the additional PR we've received since joining the CAA isn't all that bad, when you consider the cost of advertising.

We made this move to increase our visibility in the Mid Atlantic Region, and as someone who sits on admissions committees, since joining the CAA, our applications from PA/MD/NoVA have increased about 40% - direct correlation, I'm not sure, but we do have more brand recognition in those schools.

We've been drawing more in the CAA than we did in the AE, that's for sure. Remember, our hoops team was decimated after our first year in the league.

MJ wants us to fail in the CAA to satiate his own fantasies.

There's no one at NU who is upset with our move to the CAA. Top down in the school.

[henfan]

I haven't seen anything that indicates that they are pleased either.

You mean aside from their continued presence in the conference? Do schools make regular public proclamations about how happy they are to be in a conference?

Come on. You're being silly.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I agree with you to a point......but I don't think that JMU and W&M would have ever stayed permanently in an all-sports conference with Maine and UNH in it.

Again, just for argument's sake I'll agree with you. We'd still have Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware and Towson together in an all sports league. That's still better than where we're at today. Room for Albany and Stony Brook. Not having to deal with non-football schools. xwhistlex xwhistlex

[mainejeff]

Again, just for argument's sake I'll agree with you. We'd still have Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware and Towson together in an all sports league. That's still better than where we're at today. Room for Albany and Stony Brook. Not having to deal with non-football schools. xwhistlex xwhistlex

That I agree with.

[mainejeff]

We've been drawing more in the CAA than we did in the AE, that's for sure.

Yes, your 15-6, 1st place CAA team is averaging 2,025 per game. Is that REALLY an improvement over when you were in AE?

Maybe your applications from Virginia, NC, and Georgia have increased (I'm not sure what the Mid-Atlantic has to do with it since those teams were with you in AE), but unless the CAA sponsors hockey.......I doubt the league has had much of an impact on your bottom line.

[henfan]

We'd still have Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, Delaware and Towson together in an all sports league. That's still better than where we're at today. Room for Albany and Stony Brook. Not having to deal with non-football schools. xwhistlex xwhistlex

That's a good point.

While the AEC is not the topic of this thread... it's terribly unfortunate that the AEC continues to be strapped with a voting structure that gives so much leverage to schools with athletic budgets that don't include FB. The I-AAA schools seem to have an inordinate amount of control over the future of UMaine, UNH, UA and SBU FB.

Having a conference with a core FB group that would have included UMaine, UNH, NU, HU, UD, TU, W&M, JMU and ODU, along with the usual affiliates, wouldn't have sucked. People can speculate all they want about whether or not that group would have stayed together long term. IMO, it's hard to argue that an AEC with FB wouldn't have had far greater positioning power than what it has presently.

[WestCoastAggie]

It seem's like the CAA & the A-10 need to sit down and kick out some teams (BBall) and have those teams create a new conference.

[henfan]

It seem's like the CAA & the A-10 need to sit down and kick out some teams (BBall) and have those teams create a new conference.

Easier said than done.

What voting mechanism exists in either conference that would allow them to expel members, short of said members violating the terms of conference membership by-laws? I-AAA schools have just as much right to membership as I-AA members.

[89Hen]

I-AAA schools have just as much right to membership as I-AA members.
Says you. :p

[ccd494]

That's a good point.

While the AEC is not the topic of this thread... it's terribly unfortunate that the AEC continues to be strapped with a voting structure that gives so much leverage to schools with athletic budgets that don't include FB. The I-AAA schools seem to have an inordinate amount of control over the future of UMaine, UNH, UA and SBU FB.

I agree with this 100%. BU and Vermont seem to have an inordinate amount of sway in the AE. Granted, both schools' athletic departments have many virtues, and have had a lot of basketball success, but they have combined (or separately) scuttled AE football, AE expansion and AE hockey. I'm not too upset about the losses of Delaware, Towson and Drexel but:

Maine (FB, Hockey)
UNH (FB, Hockey)
Vermont (Hockey)
BU (Hockey)
Northeastern (FB, Hockey)
Hofstra (FB)
Albany (FB)
Stony Brook (FB)

is a nice, contained conference.

Add UMass in hockey and football, URI in football only, BC, Providence, Lowell, Merrimack in hockey only, and you have 8 basketball, 8 football, 10 hockey (subtracting Lowell and Merrimack wouldn't upset me, but they have nowhere to go). Longest roadtrip is Orono to Long Island. Binghamton, Hartford and UMBC can join the NEC or MAAC.

[henfan]

I agree with this 100%. BU and Vermont seem to have an inordinate amount of sway in the AE. Granted, both schools' athletic departments have many virtues, and have had a lot of basketball success, but they have combined (or separately) scuttled AE football, AE expansion and AE hockey.

Do you know if the AEC has changed its voting structure or can membership decisions still be torpedoed by 3 dissenting members? When UD was part of the conference, changes could not be approved by anything less than an 8-2 majority in favor.

Because the AEC ADs have such a wide scope of interests (only a few with FB, some with hockey), it might be hard to get any substantial changes approved unless changes have been made to membership by-laws.

[ccd494]

Do you know if the AEC has changed its voting structure or can membership decisions still be torpedoed by 3 dissenting members? When UD was part of the conference, changes could not be approved by anything less than an 8-2 majority in favor.

Because the AEC ADs have such a wide scope of interests (only a few with FB, some with hockey), it might be hard to get any substantial changes approved unless changes have been made to membership by-laws.

I don't know.

I know the baseball schedule was recently changed along majority lines (teams who don't care beating teams who care by one).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stumbled across this reaction to the piece: xlolx

http://defiantlydutch.blogspot.com/2009/02/bids-are-not-always-bigger-in-other.html


I’ve always thought Newsday’s Steve Marcus gets a bad rap on the CAA Zone message boards, where his work is often mocked and scorned. I don’t know if it’s a kneejerk reaction to the Big Bad Mainstream Media or just a matter of a columnist continually pushing the wrong (or right) buttons. I do know that the belief that he’s got it out for Hofstra—or that he directs Newsday’s college coverage away from Hofstra—because he’s a Stony Brook grad is hilarious. Yeah, Newsday’s all over the Seawolves.

...

That said, Marcus does tend to harp on the same issues. In the mid’90s, he was not shy in stating that nobody would care about Hofstra’s football team unless it made the leap to I-A—or failing that, at least played a I-AA schedule filled with the type of local rivals that made for full houses at Hofstra Stadium during the Division III days. This decade, he’s been steadfast in his belief that Hofstra made a mistake in thinking of its football team first in leaving the America East for the CAA following the 2000-01 season and that reaching the NCAA Tournament out of the CAA will be difficult in men’s hoops.

...

Look, there’s no doubt that the move to the CAA was James Shuart’s going-away present to his beloved football program and that the current administration views scholarship football as a bad contract it can’t unload. With zero ties to the glory days of Hofstra football, the powers that be would love nothing more than to find a way to save $1.9 million in full rides (give or take a few six packs of soda at Dutch Treats) and either join the MAAC (oh wait a minute…) or turn football into a club sport.

But even if Hofstra could bolt to the A-10 in other sports without affecting its membership in CAA football—and only six of the 12 CAA football schools are full-time CAA members—there’s no guarantee that the highest-profile team on campus would benefit from what Marcus calls “…the logical move” to the A-10. And I’m awfully skeptical that the A-10 would be the upgrade—in terms of local and national perception—that Marcus believes.

I'd heavlily suggest reading the entire blog posting. But the highlighted information was news to me. Does that have the ring of truth?

[89Hen]

But the highlighted information was news to me. Does that have the ring of truth?
I don't think anyone here can answer that question. However, and please know this isn't smack, but when exactly were "the glory days of Hofstra football"??? AFAIK they made 1 DIII semifinal and other than that never won a DIII playoff game. To me this sounds like more Marcus. He deserves his mockery and scorn.

[aceinthehole]

I don't think anyone here can answer that question. However, and please know this isn't smack, but when exactly were "the glory days of Hofstra football"??? AFAIK they made 1 DIII semifinal and other than that never won a DIII playoff game. To me this sounds like more Marcus. He deserves his mockery and scorn.

And Wagner has a D-III National Championship.

Was Hofstra was ever a dominate program over its local D-III rivals like Wagner, Albany, Fordham, CW Post, etc. ?

[UAalum72]

And Wagner has a D-III National Championship.

Was Hofstra was ever a dominate program over its local D-III rivals like Wagner, Albany, Fordham, CW Post, etc. ?

Hofstra was 7-1 vs. Albany from 1983-1990, but only two of those Albany teams had winning records (and three 5-5 years).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think anyone here can answer that question. However, and please know this isn't smack, but when exactly were "the glory days of Hofstra football"??? AFAIK they made 1 DIII semifinal and other than that never won a DIII playoff game. To me this sounds like more Marcus. He deserves his mockery and scorn.

In the 1950s and 1960s Hofstra was a force in Eastern football, with something like 10 winning seasons in 15 seasons with head coach "Howdy" Meyers. Bill Cosby had a whole comedy routine about when he was a football player at Temple when they were genuinely in fear of Hosftra's football team. IMO, that's what the author is talking about - glory days before the split into divisions.

[henfan]

Somebody seems to be forgetting the legend of the 'Flying Dutchman' and HU's seemingly endless struggle as a D-III and I-AA independent through a span of almost 4 decades. With the commitment to D-I sports, HU desparately wanted and needed a conference to call home. There was no other more appropriate, available or willing option than the CAA, if HU's ultimate selection was an indication.

As for calling the school's membership in the CAA "a bad contract it can't unload" that sounds suspiciously more like blogger opinion than fact. Can anyone point to any evidence (comments from HU brass, etc.) that would indicate that the current HU administration is displeased in any way with the CAA? Anyone? Certainly the blogger offered nothing to back up this comment.

[89Hen]

In the 1950s and 1960s....
50's and 60's?? xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As for calling the school's membership in the CAA "a bad contract it can't unload" that sounds suspiciously more like blogger opinion than fact. Can anyone point to any evidence (comments from HU brass, etc.) that would indicate that the current HU administration is displeased in any way with the CAA? Anyone? Certainly the blogger offered nothing to back up this comment.

I agree with you - this blog posting was the first I heard that Hofstra's brass was unhappy with football. I can say that Hofstra was dying to get into the Patriot League when they were an independent, but the PL brass said "no" since supposedly they didn't fit into the academic profile of the PL.

If they were looking at the PL for confrence membership, certainly football was a part of that. However, I don't know if the leadership was looking to "de-emphasize" football at that time by going away from scholarships. (This de-emphasis was exposed more and more as myth as of late.)

All the Hofstra "unhappiness" seems to be coming from Mr. Marcus and (to a lesser extent) this blogger. Not from the coach, fans, players, etc.

[mainejeff]

I agree with you - this blog posting was the first I heard that Hofstra's brass was unhappy with football. I can say that Hofstra was dying to get into the Patriot League when they were an independent, but the PL brass said "no" since supposedly they didn't fit into the academic profile of the PL.

If they were looking at the PL for confrence membership, certainly football was a part of that. However, I don't know if the leadership was looking to "de-emphasize" football at that time by going away from scholarships. (This de-emphasis was exposed more and more as myth as of late.)

All the Hofstra "unhappiness" seems to be coming from Mr. Marcus and (to a lesser extent) this blogger. Not from the coach, fans, players, etc.

I don't think that coaches, fans, and players EVER want to drop a sport (especially football). Personally, I think that Hofstra is better suited run a D-1 hockey program than D-1 football.

[ngineer]

While Hofstra was rebuffed about 15 years ago by the PL, I would think at this time, they could be worth another look. Of course, that would require HU to 'demphasize' football by going the 'grant-in-aid' route versus scholarships, unless the PL reversed itself, which doesn't appear likely. However, in looking at the 'bigger picture' of wanting a new "all sports" member, HU would seem to be one of the better matches in the region after Richmond and Villanova.

[Monarch Nation]

I don't believe the CAA is in a position to strongarm anyone in football quite yet. Without Hofstra, they would only have 5 full football members until ODU and G-State arrive. Then they have to worry about G-State not staying in FCS for long and Northeastern maybe calling it quits (especially if the rest of the North division leaves). The risk-to-reward ratio of "making an example" of Hofstra isn't favorable.


Why does everybody think that Ga State is going to bolt to FBS quickly? They can barely draw anybody to their basketball games and, as I understand it, can't raise the donors to build their football practice facility. That doesn't bode well for a quick jump to the FBS level.

[henfan]

Why does everybody think that Ga State is going to bolt to FBS quickly?

Everyone doesn't think that.

What these folks are really talking about is major conference athletics for GSU, since the school would not likely reclassify its FB program without a new conference affiliation solidified. Few with a grasp on reality and/or understanding of D-I financing really think GSU will have FBS FB for a very, very long time.

[Uncle Buck]

I've been away from the boards for a while but i will weigh in on some things that i read. Granted, as a former player, i won't lie, some of my instincts are to get my back up. I will try to maintain an even keel in what i say.

#1, in the early 90's from the first time we moved to 1AA, Steve Marcus has had it in for us. I still have the news clipping of him talking about Nassau coming in and beating us, yet i remember Nassau struggling to beat our JV team in the last year of DIII. He is fickle and while i don't think his SBU background has anything to do with Newsday's coverage of HU, i think he is definitely biased against us for some reason. Look at his track record of articles about HU, most if not all have some knock against us.

#2, HU brass has never indicated that football will be downsized or eliminated. The blog to which you were referred to, is comprised of Hockey and Hoops fans that do not, have not, and probably will never support football. I take what they write with a grain of salt. Many of them came in after we hit this miserable decade. While we may not have had any NC's under our belt, as a team who first went full scholarship in something like 1998, we did have quite a few wins and playoff appearances ('95, '97, '99, '00, '01). That wasn't a bad stretch. Get a chuckle about 'glory days" but yeah, we did okay in the 90's. Also, as a DIII program, we were pretty good with a number of playoff appearance through the late 80's and into 1990.

#3 The Patriot League didn't want us back in the 90's and we basically went anywhere to play anyone. The team desperately needed a football conference because playing at Montana, at Portland State, at Cal Poly, etc., this wasn't going to fly forever. After getting into the A-10 for football and its issues, the CAA was an attractive deal to leap to a stronger conference fo ALL SPORTS. Granted, President Shuart was a football guy, no doubt about it, it was the best thing for the program and the school IMO. I like playing better competition all around, not just on the gridiron. I think we're very happy hear and we've been pretty competitive on all sports fronts.

Last thought, when Shuart left we knew that FB could take a hit since Rabinowitz was not a sports guy at all, except maybe hoops. With Hayes the new AD, he's a bit of a douchebag from what i have been told, but we're getting some $$ 1A games and it seems like everything is full go ahead. He doesn't give me the slightest concern that FB is on the chopping block. If anything, people say he trying to complete something similar to what UConn did with its programs. Either way, don't trust that blog, most of those kids have no clue what they are talking about and they all have their own agenda. For any HU fan to not think Steve Marcus is a douchebag, that says it all right there about their mental accuity.

[colorless raider]

While Hofstra was rebuffed about 15 years ago by the PL, I would think at this time, they could be worth another look. Of course, that would require HU to 'demphasize' football by going the 'grant-in-aid' route versus scholarships, unless the PL reversed itself, which doesn't appear likely. However, in looking at the 'bigger picture' of wanting a new "all sports" member, HU would seem to be one of the better matches in the region after Richmond and Villanova.

Not interested and I think we will upgrade football in 2-3 years.

[Uncle Buck]

Not interested and I think we will upgrade football in 2-3 years.

You're right Colorless, we're not interested in joining the Patriot League xthumbsupx

[Seawolf97]

You're right Colorless, we're not interested in joining the Patriot League xthumbsupx

Go for it Pride! At this time going to the PL would be a step backward. And yes Hofstra fields very good teams in Lacrosse and basketball and dont forget their wrestling program.

[Uncle Buck]

Go for it Pride! At this time going to the PL would be a step backward. And yes Hofstra fields very good teams in Lacrosse and basketball and dont forget their wrestling program.

Yeah we've been pretty fortunate with some of our teams since making the move. From the people I know at the university, i've never heard of any remorse. I love the conference not just for football, but for all the other sports as well. Sure a conference in the northeast would be nice for more local rivalries, but that CAA football affiliation for me, i love it.

[bandit]

Whether the article is a piece of crap or not.......the fact remains that Hofstra (and Northeastern) are spending a boatload of money and receiving very little in return for their investment. I know that CAA (basketball) fans like to pump up their self-image, but I don't think that Hofstra or Northeastern fans have really been that enamored with CAA teams coming to their home gyms. How many more fans are they drawing now that they are in the CAA? How much more donor and sponsorship revenue are their programs receiving? Are former AE basketball powers Hofstra, Delaware and Drexel REALLY happy that they haven't been to the NCAA tourney in 7 or 8 years (or more)???

Just had to quote this post as prophetic, considering what's happened in recent weeks.

[Bull Fan]

#2, HU brass has never indicated that football will be downsized or eliminated. The blog to which you were referred to, is comprised of Hockey and Hoops fans that do not, have not, and probably will never support football. I take what they write with a grain of salt. Many of them came in after we hit this miserable decade. While we may not have had any NC's under our belt, as a team who first went full scholarship in something like 1998, we did have quite a few wins and playoff appearances ('95, '97, '99, '00, '01). That wasn't a bad stretch. Get a chuckle about 'glory days" but yeah, we did okay in the 90's. Also, as a DIII program, we were pretty good with a number of playoff appearance through the late 80's and into 1990.

#3 The Patriot League didn't want us back in the 90's and we basically went anywhere to play anyone. The team desperately needed a football conference because playing at Montana, at Portland State, at Cal Poly, etc., this wasn't going to fly forever. After getting into the A-10 for football and its issues, the CAA was an attractive deal to leap to a stronger conference fo ALL SPORTS. Granted, President Shuart was a football guy, no doubt about it, it was the best thing for the program and the school IMO. I like playing better competition all around, not just on the gridiron. I think we're very happy hear and we've been pretty competitive on all sports fronts.

Last thought, when Shuart left we knew that FB could take a hit since Rabinowitz was not a sports guy at all, except maybe hoops. With Hayes the new AD, he's a bit of a douchebag from what i have been told, but we're getting some $$ 1A games and it seems like everything is full go ahead. He doesn't give me the slightest concern that FB is on the chopping block. If anything, people say he trying to complete something similar to what UConn did with its programs. Either way, don't trust that blog, most of those kids have no clue what they are talking about and they all have their own agenda. For any HU fan to not think Steve Marcus is a douchebag, that says it all right there about their mental accuity.



Famous last words.... xsmhx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Speaking of prescient:


Last thought, when Shuart left we knew that FB could take a hit since Rabinowitz was not a sports guy at all, except maybe hoops. With Hayes the new AD, he's a bit of a douchebag from what i have been told, but we're getting some $$ 1A games and it seems like everything is full go ahead. He doesn't give me the slightest concern that FB is on the chopping block. If anything, people say he trying to complete something similar to what UConn did with its programs.

And from the Defiantly Dutch blog posting:


Look, there’s no doubt that the move to the CAA was James Shuart’s going-away present to his beloved football program and that the current administration views scholarship football as a bad contract it can’t unload. With zero ties to the glory days of Hofstra football, the powers that be would love nothing more than to find a way to save $1.9 million in full rides (give or take a few six packs of soda at Dutch Treats) and either join the MAAC (oh wait a minute…) or turn football into a club sport.

But even if Hofstra could bolt to the A-10 in other sports without affecting its membership in CAA football—and only six of the 12 CAA football schools are full-time CAA members—there’s no guarantee that the highest-profile team on campus would benefit from what Marcus calls “…the logical move” to the A-10. And I’m awfully skeptical that the A-10 would be the upgrade—in terms of local and national perception—that Marcus believes.

Re-reading this thread, it's chilling that there were definitely some hints that something like this could happen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Famous last words.... xsmhx

Beat me to it.

[Duke Dawg]

Originally Posted by mainejeff View Post
Whether the article is a piece of crap or not.......the fact remains that Hofstra (and Northeastern) are spending a boatload of money and receiving very little in return for their investment. I know that CAA (basketball) fans like to pump up their self-image, but I don't think that Hofstra or Northeastern fans have really been that enamored with CAA teams coming to their home gyms. How many more fans are they drawing now that they are in the CAA? How much more donor and sponsorship revenue are their programs receiving? Are former AE basketball powers Hofstra, Delaware and Drexel REALLY happy that they haven't been to the NCAA tourney in 7 or 8 years (or more)???


I believe GMU's Final Four run was worth a cool $500,000 to each Hofstra and Northeastern.

Does that qualify as "very little"?

If so, what does that make the payouts from the America East conference?

[mcveyrl]

I believe GMU's Final Four run was worth a cool $500,000 to each Hofstra and Northeastern.

Does that qualify as "very little"?

If so, what does that make the payouts from the America East conference?

In terms of what they've had to spend on football the past few years in the CAA, I would qualify that as "very little." It's a windfall, for sure, but a very little one.

[Bull Fan]

Beat me to it.


None of us could stress enough, this decision came way out of left field. While I was pontificating the end of the program for completely different reasons, i.e., TRUE financial issues, this was purely an assassination by a dirtbag who just doesn't like sports.

Two year study, my left cheek. There was no study. Everyone wants to see a copy of some report, but it's fictional. That guy was throwing numbers around that are so phoney that nobody can tie them back and has everyone with a half a brain arguing and disputing this.

It's an indictment on anyone in charge at that university. Now Hofstra football is but a myth and legend.