UND fan claims DI-AA no better than D2 play...

[WYOBISONMAN]

NDSU's former rival from Grand Forks, ND still had fans that think D2 ball is of the same clibre as DI-AA. I have to say that I have been very surprised at how much tougher DI-AA is than D2...anyway....here is the guy's post and the link to the board if you want to let them know what DI-AA fans think.....

UND Board (http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5264&st=20)

D-1AA is just as watered down as D-2. The top 10 to 15 teams are head and shoulders above everybody else, same as in D2. NDSU is proving there are plenty of cupcakes in D-1AA to pad your schedule with. The upper echelon of D2 teams are very strong and winning a D2 title is every bit as impressive now as it ever was. The middle of the pack D2 teams aren't as competitive as the middle of the pack teams of 10 to 15 years ago were, but the top teams are every bit as good now as they ever were (if not better). The main difference between D-1AA and D2 is among the mediocre to poor teams. The bottom half of D-1AA teams are a lot better than the bottom half of D2 teams, but the top teams in D2 are pretty comparable to the top teams in D-1AA. For proof, look no further than a non-playoff D2 team (NDSU) beating a highly ranked D-1AA team (Montana) two years ago.

[Ronbo]

Put together a list of I-AA vs. D2 games this year. Here I'll start you out. Then go post them at their stupid board.

Montana 55 - Fort Lewis 0

[ChickenMan]

Delaware 42 West Chester (a DII playoff team) 21

[89Hen]

Cripes, this was the same post almost verbatim two years ago when NDSU did beat Montana. :rolleyes: :boring:

You want some ammo?

#5 ranked and #1 regional seed Presbyterian lost to SoCon cellar dwellar Elon 34-19 for their only regular season loss.

UCA, the team that whalloped Presbyterian in the DII playoffs, lost to UT-Martin who finished 4-4 in the OVC.

[AmsterBison]

Hey, don't tell tales on the U of North Dakota - that's not cricket. They may be idiots but they are our neighbors :)

Now, if the U of North Dakota goes DI and starts singing a new tune, I'll be first in line to make them eat their own words. If they think that DI-AA grapes are sour, I think they'll find out that having crow jammed down their throats will be a lot less pleasant a dining experience.

Anyway, there is some truth to what they say: Most years, the top couple DII teams would be competitive with a lot of DI-AA teams. They might win the occasional battle, but they'd get slapped down in a season-long war.

[bandl]

JMU 56 - Lock Haven 0

not something to be proud of though...it's more of a scrimmage to work out the quirks than a real game.

[bcrawf]

UNI 49
Minnesota Duluth 10

[89Hen]

UNI 49
Minnesota Duluth 10
They were a playoff team in DII too, no? :nod:

I'd avoid using I-AA games against non-playoff DII teams (Lock Haven, they are a horrible DII) since that's rather meaningless.

[Reed Rothchild]

They were a playoff team in DII too, no? :nod:




They were conference co-champs too.

[Cocky]

The top 30 teams in D-II can play with the bottom 30 teams in I-AA. The top 30 teams in I-AA can play with the bottom 30 I-A teams. The same can be said for D-III.

The top teams in D-II can't play with the top teams in I-AA. The top teams in I-AA can't play with the top teams in I-A.

This is based on a long term situation not a one game upset.

I would rather see us play North Alabama than a low level I-AA team. I would rather see App State play LSU than a Sun-Belt team.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I also must say that in that same thread there are some pretty thoughtful UND fans that are very worried about thier FB and BB programs since NDSU has moved up and they realize that there is much more interest in D1 than D2 and they also feel UND needs to make the move up. I for one would welcome the Sioux on a move up.....eventhough it would make recruiting tougher for NDSU.

[HensRock]

The main difference between D-1AA and D2 is among the mediocre to poor teams. The bottom half of D-1AA teams are a lot better than the bottom half of D2 teams, but the top teams in D2 are pretty comparable to the top teams in D-1AA. For proof, look no further than a non-playoff D2 team (NDSU) beating a highly ranked D-1AA team (Montana) two years ago.

I disagree. I think I-AA is better at the top and WORSE at the bottom than D-II.

[ysubigred]

HEY!! Even a ****ty sub standard 1AA YSU team beat a PSAC power house Slippery Rock 44-14 :D

[BelgradeBobcat]

NDSU fans you tell us. My perception is in your D-2 days you usually had 2 or 3 really tough games every season that you had to get up for and the rest were patsies. Whereas in 1-AA almost every week is a tough game and the season gets to be long hard grind. As long as they're healthy a top 10 D-2 can compete and sometimes beat a top 1-AA team, but you have a few injuries and the D-2 team doesn't have the depth to stay as good.

[WYOBISONMAN]

NDSU fans you tell us. My perception is in your D-2 days you usually had 2 or 3 really tough games every season that you had to get up for and the rest were patsies. Whereas in 1-AA almost every week is a tough game and the season gets to be long hard grind. As long as they're healthy a top 10 D-2 can compete and sometimes beat a top 1-AA team, but you have a few injuries and the D-2 team doesn't have the depth to stay as good.

You are right. I remember some years we had only one game that was reasonably close. To me the day in and day out competition is much greater and you have to have depth to cope with injuries. If a D2 team suffers a few key injuries, they are in deep trouble.

[NDSU_grad]

NDSU fans you tell us. My perception is in your D-2 days you usually had 2 or 3 really tough games every season that you had to get up for and the rest were patsies. Whereas in 1-AA almost every week is a tough game and the season gets to be long hard grind. As long as they're healthy a top 10 D-2 can compete and sometimes beat a top 1-AA team, but you have a few injuries and the D-2 team doesn't have the depth to stay as good.

Excellent assessment. Look at UND this year. They rolled through their schedule except for two games, which they lost (just talking regular season). In I-AA there are maybe two to three games where you can count on a W, the rest are true battles.

[HensRock]

But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I. There are a LOT of them and this helps to bring down the general perception of I-AA. Most of these schools would lose to even mediocre D-II teams. This is why I say that I-AA is better on top, but worse on the bottom than D-II.

[SoCon48]

But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I. There are a LOT of them and this helps to bring down the general perception of I-AA. Most of these schools would lose to even mediocre D-II teams. This is why I say that I-AA is better on top, but worse on the bottom than D-II.

Elon. Bottom of I-AA 34 .....Presby top of D-2 19

Elon was winless in the SoCon.

[HensRock]

Elon. Bottom of I-AA 34 .....Presby top of D-2 19

Elon was winless in the SoCon.

"But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I."

Ah! You see. You have forgotten about them too! Elon is NOT a bottom I-AA team. They are ranked 73rd in the GPI out of 120 teams. They are middle of the pack. Dont forget about teams like St. Peter's, Savannah State, Valparaiso, Austin Peay, St. Francis, Butler, ....

They are REALLY REALLY bad!
Savannah State lost to 2 Div-II teams this year.

[ysubigred]

"But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I."

Ah! You see. You have forgotten about them too! Elon is NOT a bottom I-AA team. They are ranked 73rd in the GPI out of 120 teams. They are middle of the pack. Dont forget about teams like St. Peter's, Savannah State, Valparaiso, Austin Peay, St. Francis, Butler, ....

They are REALLY REALLY bad!
Savannah State lost to 2 Div-II teams this year.

INDY ST lost to a NAIA team Ugggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hansel]

"But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I."

Ah! You see. You have forgotten about them too! Elon is NOT a bottom I-AA team. They are ranked 73rd in the GPI out of 120 teams. They are middle of the pack. Dont forget about teams like St. Peter's, Savannah State, Valparaiso, Austin Peay, St. Francis, Butler, ....

They are REALLY REALLY bad!
Savannah State lost to 2 Div-II teams this year.
Bottom tier DII teams often get rolled by DIII teams.

There is "gunk" a the bottom of both the IAA/DII barrels

[bisonguy]

"But then you also have the non-schollies in I-AA. Everyone seems to forget about these D-III teams masquerading as D-I."

Ah! You see. You have forgotten about them too! Elon is NOT a bottom I-AA team. They are ranked 73rd in the GPI out of 120 teams. They are middle of the pack. Dont forget about teams like St. Peter's, Savannah State, Valparaiso, Austin Peay, St. Francis, Butler, ....

They are REALLY REALLY bad!
Savannah State lost to 2 Div-II teams this year.

DII has a couple of non-scholly conferences, as well, along with about half of all conferences with maximum scholarship limits below the DII maximum (anywhere from 20-31, as opposed to the 36 allowed).

[89rabbit]

How about Missouri-Rolla as an example. They went 7-4 and played 4 I-AA schools (1 Scholarship and 3 Non-Scholarship)


SDSU 64 - Missouri-Rolla 28
Missouri-Rolla 45 - Austin Peay 3 (Non-Scholarship)
Morehead St. 56 - Missouri-Rolla 55 (Non-Scholarship)
Missouri-Rolla 45 - Butler 28 (Non-Scholarship)

[TigerFan17]

Even non-scholarship teams are still better than D-II's. I'd take the top of the Patriot League versus any D-II team.

[dakotadan]

Now Wyo, you know that DaveK will say absolutely anything to get you Bison fans worked up. I don't believe that most Sioux fans think this way.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Hey Dan....nice to see a Sioux fan over here! DaveK would not like you coming over here to the "DARK SIDE"...... ;)

[HensRock]

Check out these scores:

I-AA Ark Pine-Bluff 9
D-II Tuskeegee 13 LOSS

I-AA Austin Peay 19
D-II Charleston (WV) 24 LOSS

Austin Peay 24
Cumberland 15 (A WIN!)

Austin Peay 3
Missouri Rolla 45 LOSS

I-AA Butler 23
D-III Albion 28 LOSS

Butler 7
Tiffin 30 LOSS

Butler 7
St Joseph(Ind) 23 LOSS

Butler 28
Missouri-Rolla 45 LOSS

I-AA Davidson 32
Greensboro 7 (Win #2 !!!)

Davidson 9
Lenoir-Rhyne 16 LOSS

This is just looking at A-D for some I-AA schools.

[bluehenbillk]

The tippy-top of D2 could play with most 1-AA teams, I don't think any would be a 1-AA playoff team. D2 had some better days back in the day, case in point, YSU at their peak playing dead even with D2 dynasty North Alabama.

I'd take the top half of D2 over the 1-AA mid-majors, per Hens Rock's scores.